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Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bronwyn contains coarse

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Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. Bronwin's good

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Speaker 1: friend Anise Barnard and her husbands are making plans. They

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Speaker 1: are going to sell the house Denise loves and Fareweller

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Speaker 1: community in which they have lived for about thirty five years.

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Speaker 1: They are moving a few hundred kilometers north to be

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Speaker 1: closer to their children on Queensland and Sunshine Coast.

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Speaker 2: Just go and start a new life with my family.

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Speaker 2: Time to move on and be with my granddaughter.

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Speaker 3: And how do you feel about leaving all these memories

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Speaker 3: and after se many years?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I'm fine stoke.

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Speaker 1: As we chatted at her home, I showed Denise the

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Speaker 1: brief snippet of video of Bromman. The bit filmed while

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Speaker 1: she visited her father Philip in a Brisbane hospital. He

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Speaker 1: was gravely ill after a liver transplant and would die

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Speaker 1: days later.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you'll blink or wink or move his head if

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Speaker 2: I think he's responding.

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Speaker 4: It makes me feel a lot better. But all I

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Speaker 4: ever telling me said he's going to get better. Wow.

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Speaker 2: It's exactly how she looked. It's amazing to see her,

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Speaker 2: see her talking.

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Speaker 5: You forget how people sound.

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Speaker 4: Too much time gone by.

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Speaker 1: Right after hearing and seeing Bromin on the screen of

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Speaker 1: my laptop at an outdoor table, Denise disclosed something unexpected

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Speaker 1: and do you.

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Speaker 2: Know Broman's third person of my friends that's gone missing

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Speaker 2: without a trace. You would have heard of Wi Borkin

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Speaker 2: and Julie Jamison. Yeah, there were two of my friends

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Speaker 2: in Sydney that disappeared, never a trace of them ever.

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Speaker 2: Both nurses then rumored I'd heard Ivan Latt.

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Speaker 4: They're eighteen. Whatever happened to them?

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Speaker 2: How do people just disappear and you never see them again?

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Speaker 5: Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 6: His crimes left a trail of fear and sorrow stretching

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Speaker 6: all the way from Australia to Europe. Ivan Malatt remains

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Speaker 6: a key suspect for a spate of unsolved murders dating

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Speaker 6: back to nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 1: In May two thousand and six, ABC News reported.

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Speaker 7: Serial killer Ivan Malatt has been named as a person

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Speaker 7: of interest at an inquest into the deaths of two

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Speaker 7: Sydney nurses. Westmead Coroner's Court has heard that Gillian Jamison

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Speaker 7: and Deborah Balkan were last seen in a Western Sydney

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Speaker 7: hotel in nineteen eighty. The coroner has recommended the case

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Speaker 7: be referred to the Unsolved Homicide Squad for further investigation

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Speaker 7: outside the court. Detective Sergeant Ian McNab said the case

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Speaker 7: would indeed be referred to the Cold case Unit.

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Speaker 1: Detective Sergeant McNab said, it's always frustrating if you can't

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Speaker 1: solve the matter.

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Speaker 4: A more timely day.

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Speaker 3: When Bromin disappeared, what did you believe had happened?

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Speaker 2: Well, I hadn't seen her for a little while. I'd

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Speaker 2: gotten right into the gym. She was working at Eden's

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Speaker 2: and doing other things. And I think the first call

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Speaker 2: I got was from Andrew, her brother, and he said

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Speaker 2: had I seen Brown? And I said no, I hadn't,

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Speaker 2: And then that was followed up by Debbie. Were you

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Speaker 2: all started this wear issue? What's happened to her?

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Speaker 3: Do you remember talking to police in nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 3: immediately after Bromin vanished?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think I did speak to police.

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Speaker 3: Did it take until nineteen ninety eight when you gave

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Speaker 3: your statement?

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Speaker 4: No, I think it was nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 5: Do you know why do you know why police didn't

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Speaker 5: speak to you?

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Speaker 4: I have no idea. Yeah, I don't remember.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's understandable.

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Speaker 3: We're going back thirty one years to when Bromin disappeared.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that I think people like Debbie

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Speaker 3: and others have some regrets over is that the suspicions

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Speaker 3: they had were not acted upon by police or even

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Speaker 3: by themselves at that time.

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Speaker 5: In ninety three. You've said that you formed the suspicion

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Speaker 5: straight away.

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Speaker 2: Well in that time period, you know, recently after she disappeared.

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Speaker 5: Are we talking days, weeks, months?

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Speaker 4: Probably weeks?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, after talking to like back then, Andrew, Debbie, obviously

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Speaker 2: we're all on board talking about what was going on

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Speaker 2: and the night the car went down the driveway and

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Speaker 2: all that sort of thing. That I've never gone from

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Speaker 2: the assumption that I think he did something, whether it

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Speaker 2: be in the heat of the moment, that's how I

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Speaker 2: believe it happened. But I've never waited from that. He

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Speaker 2: from memory, filed a missing person report, yes, and I

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Speaker 2: believe at the time a lot of that was that

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Speaker 2: they believed John that she'd just gone off and disappeared.

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Speaker 4: Left him yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: Why would you if you loved your girls, why would

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Speaker 2: you ever want to assume a your identity and even

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Speaker 2: go and set up again. Unless she had a plan

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Speaker 2: to maybe set yourself up and then come back and get.

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Speaker 4: Them, But no, I don't think it's pausible.

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Speaker 1: In an earlier episode, you heard Denise disclosing what she

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Speaker 1: told police when they came to her for a statement

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, five years after Bromwin's disappearance.

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Speaker 2: I still recollect when she told me that he had

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Speaker 2: had her by the throat up against the wall and

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Speaker 2: that she was frightened.

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Speaker 3: It's not an easy question to ask, but I have

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Speaker 3: to ask. Do you think that Bromwin's friends could have

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Speaker 3: should have said more, done more early on to raise

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Speaker 3: the alarm.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'm sure we should have. I don't know even

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Speaker 4: now why we didn't.

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Speaker 3: Presuably you could have formed the group of mums you

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Speaker 3: were for playgroup and all gone to the police station

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Speaker 3: and said, hey, we think she's met with foul play.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why we didn't do that.

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Speaker 2: Even now, I don't that would be what I would

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Speaker 2: do now, But back then, I don't know why we didn't.

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Speaker 2: For a while did we believe that as John had said,

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Speaker 2: she'd gone away for a while to have a break.

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Speaker 2: But after that, why didn't we go?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And in other cases, I've talked to people who say

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Speaker 1: that the hope that someone they really loble are very

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Speaker 1: close to will come back prevents them from accepting that

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Speaker 1: foul play has occurred.

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Speaker 5: There's this candle that they keep alive.

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Speaker 2: I don't think at any time I thought she was

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Speaker 2: going to come back after that?

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Speaker 4: Why didn't I do anything? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Was it my husband saying, oh no, that John's a

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Speaker 2: good bloke. Nothing, there wouldn't been anything like that happening.

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Speaker 2: Did I tend to go that way for a while?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: Was that Lester's view?

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Speaker 4: My husband's always sat in the fence. He knows my feelings.

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Speaker 4: He's always set in offense about it. But where is she?

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Speaker 2: Then?

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Speaker 4: I said to him, or where is she? If she's

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Speaker 4: still around?

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Speaker 5: Where is she?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Currently answer that, Penny.

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Speaker 5: Have you understood why he's sat on the fence.

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Speaker 4: I just think it's just a blokey thing.

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Speaker 1: As I write this, another ABC News story reports on

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Speaker 1: a national summit about violence perpetrated by men against.

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Speaker 8: Women at its first national round table, the Federal Circuit

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Speaker 8: and Family Course of Australia looks to find solutions to

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Speaker 8: a growing emergency.

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Speaker 4: It is a national disgrace and has tell me do

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Speaker 4: more about it. There is no doubt it is getting worse.

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Speaker 7: So we do have a national crisis in this country

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Speaker 7: and this Court is absolutely committed to making sure that

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Speaker 7: it's playing it's part.

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Speaker 8: Addressing the crowd was the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, who

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Speaker 8: called on men to step up.

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Speaker 4: One death of a woman at the hands of a

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Speaker 4: man is one too many. One death a week is

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Speaker 4: an epidemic.

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Speaker 8: At least twenty four women have been killed in Australia

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Speaker 8: this year, ten more than this time last year.

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Speaker 4: In Victoria.

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Speaker 8: They include Samantha Murphy, Sweza Madigani, Rebecca Young and Hannah Maguire,

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Speaker 8: all allegedly murdered by men, and as the community grieves,

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Speaker 8: outrage grows. Last week, hundreds took the streets of Balaras

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Speaker 8: demanding action.

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Speaker 1: The ABC's journalist at the summit, Leanne Wog, reported it's rare.

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Speaker 8: For judicial leaders to speak out publicly on any topic.

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Speaker 8: Today's round table is a clear sign of the crisis

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Speaker 8: facing Australia amid surging levels of family violence and violence

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Speaker 8: against women.

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Speaker 9: A call to action for a nation in mourning.

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Speaker 1: My friend and colleague Claire Harvey is regularly reporting and

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Speaker 1: analyzing policy and cases concerning domestic violence.

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Speaker 10: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front coming up.

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Speaker 10: Why domestic violence has suddenly rocketed to national attention. The

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Speaker 10: Australian spent decades leading the conversation on domestic violence, coercive

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Speaker 10: control and the safety of women. Domestic violence now takes

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Speaker 10: up well over half police time, but there are deep

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Speaker 10: flaws in the systems of prosecution and protection. Sarah Eisen

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Speaker 10: is a political reporter with The Australian.

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Speaker 11: We've had twenty seven murders of women in the first

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Speaker 11: four months of twenty twenty four. There's never been as

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Speaker 11: many women killed in the first four months of.

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Speaker 4: Any year ever.

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Speaker 11: There's a real concern that the national plant and violence

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Speaker 11: against women and children just isn't really working.

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Speaker 7: Say it was.

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Speaker 10: At one of the rallies on the lawn in front

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Speaker 10: of Parliament House in Canberra. Prime Minister Anthony Alberanesi took

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Speaker 10: the microphone.

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Speaker 9: To the mind that governments of all levels must do better.

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Speaker 10: The declaration was met with cheers, jeers and tears. Victims

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Speaker 10: can obtain apprehended violence orders, but offenders can ignore them

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Speaker 10: if they're determined enough. Police can arrest perpetrators, but magistrates

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Speaker 10: can grant them bail, or they can serve light sentences,

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Speaker 10: which leaves victims doubly vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: In my conversations with Madison Walsh, who was born a

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Speaker 1: decade after her blood relation Bromwin disappeared, we kick around

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Speaker 1: ideas and angles.

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Speaker 5: It helps to share. So, Maddie a couple of things

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Speaker 5: I'd like you to do.

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Speaker 1: Timelines are so important, definitely in cases like this. They

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Speaker 1: help us understand what's going on, Who said, what, when,

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Speaker 1: what happened. As you go through it, it'll become more

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Speaker 1: and more detail.

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Speaker 12: Lynn's niece did a timeline years before I got involved

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Speaker 12: in the Teacher's pet She did this for the month

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Speaker 12: of January because it was a crucial month leading up

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Speaker 12: to when the disappeared. I remember talking to once to

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Speaker 12: a great criminal lawyer, and he said timelines win cases.

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Speaker 1: Maddie has driven from the northern beaches of Sydney to

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Speaker 1: meet me at the home of Bromwin's brother Andy Reid

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Speaker 1: and his wife Michelle in the Shire near Qunella in

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Speaker 1: the south. We are looking at the time John spent

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Speaker 1: in the Shire after he arrived in the family sedan

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Speaker 1: on the morning of Monday May seventeen, nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 1: with the two children, Lauren and Crystal. They had driven

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Speaker 1: through the night from Lennox. The children should have been

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Speaker 1: in school in Lenox, but instead they were in Sydney.

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Speaker 1: According to John, Bronwin had told him on the Sunday night,

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Speaker 1: May sixteen that she needed a few days away, a

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Speaker 1: short break.

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Speaker 5: They ended up staying with you for how long?

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Speaker 13: Think about ten days? Yep, Because by then he kept stalling.

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Speaker 13: He kept stalling about going back, and we said, John,

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Speaker 13: the kids need to be back into school.

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Speaker 9: I want you to take the kids back up.

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Speaker 1: By this stage, Andy knew that the authorized break in

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00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: by Bromwin's neighbor Murray at the house at Sandstone Crescent

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00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,720
Speaker 1: had not provided clues to the whereabouts of Bromwin, and

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Speaker 1: Bromwin hadn't turned up for work at Eden's takeaway on

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00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,079
Speaker 1: Wednesday May nineteen. Where was he staying while his children

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Speaker 1: were with you?

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Speaker 9: The first night he slept in our place.

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Speaker 13: But on the Wednesday, when Bromin obviously didn't turn up

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Speaker 13: to the takeaway shop, he wasn't comfortable enough. He was

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Speaker 13: seeing the kids at our place, might have dinner with us,

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Speaker 13: but then he go and sleep.

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Speaker 9: At his parents.

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Speaker 13: And by very early in that next week, I'd made

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00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 13: the decision that and I'd confronted him and said, either

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00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,520
Speaker 13: I'm going to cradle a police station to report brom

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00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 13: And missing now, or you pack the kids up, you

243
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 13: take them back home, and you report a missing.

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Speaker 9: So which one is it?

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00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 13: He opted said, I'll get the kids back up there,

246
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 13: get them back into school, and I'll go.

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Speaker 5: And report a missing.

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Speaker 1: He went back to Ballina and he did report brom

249
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Speaker 1: And missing in late May.

250
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Speaker 13: Yes, in hindsight, there's no way in the world that

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00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,440
Speaker 13: I would have let John report her missing if I

252
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,640
Speaker 13: knew the ramifications that would lead me too.

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Speaker 1: As Bromwin's next of kin, John Winfield was at a

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Speaker 1: distinct advantage.

255
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,800
Speaker 5: The police policy.

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Speaker 1: At the time meant they dealt first and foremost with

257
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 1: next of kin of a missing person. In circumstances where

258
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 1: the next of kin, for example, the husband should have

259
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: been a number one person of interest. When Lynne disappeared

260
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty two from her house at Bayview on

261
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 1: the Northern Beaches and from her two children. Her husband

262
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 1: Chris Dawson, was next of kin. Chris had reported Lynn

263
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 1: missing some five and a half weeks after she disappeared,

264
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 1: and even though Lynn's brother, Greg Simms was a police

265
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: officer at the time, he was effectively excluded by police

266
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: in the early years they deferred to Chris. The Northern

267
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: Beaches cops told Greg that as his sister's husband was

268
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,760
Speaker 1: the next of kin, they would deal with him try

269
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: number of occasions sting out missing persons, and because I

270
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: wasn't the next to king Chris Dawson was, they wouldn't.

271
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 5: Tell me anything.

272
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 10: Pass hands were tired, as well as Griggs, as well

273
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 10: as everybody's because she was classed as a missing person

274
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 10: and we were not next to kin.

275
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 1: In this way, Lynn's killer got preferential treatment.

276
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 13: Because at that stage I had to jump through that

277
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,359
Speaker 13: many hoops to be the person that was doing Bromwin's

278
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 13: official next of kin on police records, it was just stonewalled, stonewalled,

279
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 13: stonewalled by John Winfield.

280
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Speaker 9: I know you can't, we can't put Bromin's.

281
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 13: Picture on a milk carton because that'll upset the kids.

282
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 9: Can't do this, that'll upset the kids.

283
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 1: What do you recall about your contact with Detective discu It.

284
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 13: I had several conversations with Detective chrome Discin, but knowing.

285
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 9: What we know now, none of what they did earlier.

286
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 9: The piece was very thorough.

287
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 14: John's the husband.

288
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 15: He was having all the stay seven hundred kilometers away.

289
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 15: We're down here with two little kids. He's up there.

290
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 15: He had an answer for everything.

291
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,639
Speaker 1: Did you say to Detective discon or any of the

292
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: other officers in the weeks or even months after Browin disappeared. Look,

293
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 1: I think that this could be foul play.

294
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 13: Yeah, I'd said to him straight out. I don't think

295
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,400
Speaker 13: this is right. I do not think this is right.

296
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 13: This is so out of character of my sister. You

297
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:44,919
Speaker 13: need to investigate that.

298
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,199
Speaker 1: I have been reading the original police running sheets, a

299
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,880
Speaker 1: contemporaneous record kept by police which shows who was contacted,

300
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 1: with a date and a brief summary for each entry.

301
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: The running sheet shows that on May twenty eighth, nineteen

302
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,440
Speaker 1: ninety three, the day after John Winfield reported Brodman missing,

303
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: a police officer, Julie Donovan.

304
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 16: Spoke with doctor Chris Mitchell, who stated Winfield last saw

305
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 16: him on May fourteenth, nineteen ninety three. Was aware of

306
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 16: marriage problems, however, did not find Winfield to be depressed.

307
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 16: Spoke with manager Peter Jacobson at Commonwealth Bank. Stated that

308
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 16: there was an account in the name of Bronwin Winfield

309
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 16: in San Suzi that was receiving a family supplement. However,

310
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 16: up to date money had gone in from supplement but

311
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,640
Speaker 16: none taken out.

312
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,919
Speaker 1: There is another entry for eleven am. On May thirty,

313
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 1: Denise Barnard and Deborah Hall attended the police station.

314
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 16: Both girls stated very much out of character for Winfield

315
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 16: to leave children. Hall informs that on May fourteen, Winfield

316
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 16: started to move back into house at Sandstone Crescent.

317
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 1: The entry shows that deb Hall discovered those two police

318
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 1: what John had told deb that John and Romlan had

319
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 1: an altercation on the Sunday evening May sixteenth, when John

320
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: arrived at the house. That's the word in the police

321
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 1: document from nineteen ninety three, altercation. The Collins Dictionary defines

322
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 1: an altercation as a noisy argument or disagreement. According to

323
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 1: the running Sheets, police officer Julie Donovan spoke to the

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00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,120
Speaker 1: clairvoyant and tarot card reader who had been receiving visits

325
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: from Bromlin, but he said he had not seen Bromlin

326
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 1: since early May. On June one, Detective Graham Diskin's name

327
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 1: features prominently in the running sheets.

328
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 14: Two pm, visited Sandstone Crescent, spoke to husband Jonathan Winfield,

329
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 14: inspected house and obtained letters written by missing woman. Questioned

330
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 14: husband further and delved into past.

331
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: It must have been a relatively brief inspection and conversation

332
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 1: with the person who had a noisy disagreement with his

333
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: wife and was the last person to see her alive,

334
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: because at three pm Detective Discan was at the Rental

335
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: Accommodation in Byron Street, where he talked to the owner,

336
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: Shirley Taylor. Half an hour later, Detective Sergeant Discan went

337
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: to the Ballina Taxi Service depot to see if Broman

338
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 1: had possibly traveled out of town in a cab. The

339
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: next day, June two, he contacted Australian Federal Police, who

340
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: told him Broman had not held an Australian or New

341
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: Zealand passport since nineteen eighty and he was advised that

342
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 1: Broman had not applied to travel overseas. Graham Diskin then

343
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 1: contacted Telecom, which was the name then for the telecommunications

344
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: company now known as Telstra.

345
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 14: To obtain phone usage at home. Since sixteen May nineteen ninety.

346
00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: Three, he reported that there were three relevant long distance

347
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: or meeted telephone calls. His records do not indicate any

348
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,199
Speaker 1: reference to local calls. The first long distance call was

349
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: made at six point fifty three pm on the Sunday

350
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: and it was to John's daughter Jody Winfield in Sydney.

351
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: The second was just thirteen minutes later, at seven oh

352
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 1: six pm, and it was to John's brother Peter Winfield

353
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: in Sydney. It seems that John was letting family members

354
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: know that he had arrived safely after the flight from Sydney.

355
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 1: The third number, however, is a curious one. In the

356
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 1: official police running sheet, Detective Sergeant Graham Diskin has reported

357
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: that this number was called at two thirteen in the morning,

358
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: and that was the morning of May seventeen, a Monday.

359
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: It is a strange time for someone to be making

360
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 1: a telephone call. Remember, neither John nor Broman was using

361
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 1: mobile telephones then. All these calls were made from fixed

362
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: home phones or landlines. Now John Winfield must have been

363
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 1: well on the way to Sydney in the early hours

364
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: of Monday morning. But the actual number which police claimed

365
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: was called from the house at Sandstone Crescent at two

366
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: thirteen am was also unusual. It started with zero zero

367
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: five five, and that meant it wasn't a normal long

368
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: distance call, it was some kind of service. Graham Diskin

369
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: compared the number with other numbers he saw on uncollected

370
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: mail enclosing Roman's telephone bill for the separate Byron Street

371
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: rental accommodation and here's what the detective reported in the

372
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: running sheet for June two, nineteen ninety three.

373
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 14: Account shows that missing person had called the double zero

374
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,719
Speaker 14: double five numbers on a number of occasions prior to

375
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 14: moving back to the family home. Unusual that the husband

376
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 14: stated that he left the family home at eleven pm

377
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 14: on May sixth, nineteen ninety three, and a double zero

378
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 14: double five number was called at two thirteen am on

379
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 14: May seventeen, nineteen ninety three. It may well be that

380
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 14: the missing person has returned to the family home after

381
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 14: the husband left allegedly at eleven pm, But.

382
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: Detective Sergeant Diskan had misunderstood something very fundamental. He made

383
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: an error with significant ramifications. Contrary to what he wrote

384
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: down in the police running sheet. The information obtained from

385
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: the telephone company by the detective does not show that

386
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: a call from the home phone at Sandstone Crescent was

387
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: made at two thirteen am on Monday May seventeen. In fact,

388
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: it shows that the call was made at two thirteen

389
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: pm in the afternoon of Sunday the day before, and

390
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: there was no mystery about it. Bromwin or someone else

391
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: it could have been Crystal had called the number to

392
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: get the results for the weekly lotto draw. Here's Michelle

393
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: Reid with her husband Andy.

394
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 15: They told us that they checked the phone records and

395
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 15: someone had been at the house after John had left.

396
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 15: They'd been making phone calls to some doub double five

397
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 15: number which ended up the police couldn't check it up

398
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 15: because those numbers were banned from.

399
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 4: The police station.

400
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 15: Because someone at the police station had been ringing sex

401
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 15: lines and that was straight out of his mouth, leading

402
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 15: us so long thinking someone had done that in the

403
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 15: middle of the night, and the fool of a man

404
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 15: had said what happened in the am and it was

405
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 15: actually in the pm of the day before. He didn't

406
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 15: even get that right, and from that mistake that led

407
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 15: all of the original police officers up there to think

408
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 15: that shed They all believed that Broman had gone off,

409
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 15: so they were.

410
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 9: At all thinking John had done anything.

411
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 15: John ran with that, He ran with that, He ran

412
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 15: that she had to please said please, said, she's someone.

413
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 17: Ring the phone.

414
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 15: I left at eleven o six and must have been

415
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 15: Bromlin because no one else had a king.

416
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: But that discovery is not made for five years, a

417
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: long time.

418
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 15: Until the next lot of policemen took over.

419
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 5: That was a royal creup point.

420
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 13: And it was actually Michelle found that out because Michelle

421
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 13: was looking at phone records trying to point out numbers

422
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 13: and that for them, and that's.

423
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 9: When Michelle turned around and went, hey, on.

424
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 13: This phone call was never there was no No one

425
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 13: ever returned to the house and made a phone call

426
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 13: at two am on the in the Monday morning after

427
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 13: midnight Sunday.

428
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: No one the detective's a mistake over the timing of

429
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: this telephone call appears to have had a crucial bearing

430
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: on the course of the investigation. The misunderstanding lent weight

431
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: to discons theory that had slipped back into the house

432
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: after John had left. This was despite other evidence which

433
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: in my view, should have already been ringing loud alarm bells.

434
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 14: Inquiries at the Commonwealth Bank indicate that her bank account

435
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 14: has not been touched to date.

436
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: The running sheets become more detailed over the following days.

437
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: At nine thirty am on June three, Detective Sergeant Discan

438
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: teamed with Detective Wayne Temby and they went back to

439
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: talk to Deborah.

440
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 14: Hall, unable to assist with any further information except for

441
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 14: a conversation relayed to her by John Winfield that on

442
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 14: the night she left, she informed him that she had

443
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 14: the opportunity of getting away for a few days and

444
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 14: was going to take the opportunity. Paul is very surprised

445
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 14: that missing person has left children and not made contact.

446
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: At eleven am, detectives Discan and Temby.

447
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 14: Had a long conversation with John Winfield about missing person

448
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 14: and reason for taking children to see Sydney on Sunday night.

449
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 14: Stated that they travel better at night and that his

450
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 14: wife was aware that he would have them for eight

451
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 14: to ten days in Sydney.

452
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 5: Whilst she had a break.

453
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 14: Produced a document where he purchased petrol in Ballina at

454
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 14: six minutes past eleven on May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three.

455
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 14: This is consistent with next door neighbor hearing him leave

456
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 14: the premises unable to assist with phone call being made

457
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 14: from his premises at two thirteen am on the Monday morning.

458
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 14: Indications are that the missing person has returned to the

459
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 14: family home after he and the children had left, and

460
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 14: made the call whilst obtaining her property. He still states

461
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 14: that after she made the call early in the evening,

462
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 14: she walked out the front door about nine pm, carrying

463
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 14: no property. We still can't find her handbag or a

464
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 14: small blue suitcase. John states that he did have a

465
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 14: conversation with her about getting away for a couple of weeks,

466
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 14: deny as receiving any phone call in the middle of

467
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 14: the night after missing person had been missing a few days.

468
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 14: Apparently has told other people he had a call, but

469
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 14: no person spoke.

470
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: It is notable in my opinion that the proposed duration

471
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: of Bromwin's purported break has by early June blown out

472
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: by a long way. Initially, according to John, his wife

473
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: Bromwin had told him she wanted a break for a

474
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: few days, but by early June, with Bromwyn still missing,

475
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: John is saying to police that she had said she wanted.

476
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 5: To get away for a couple of weeks.

477
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: Detectives Discan and Temby went to Eden's Takeaway and spoke

478
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: to Bromwyn's workmates, but they were unable to help. The

479
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: Running sheet states that an unnamed person at the takeaway

480
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: told police that Bromwyn.

481
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 14: For about the last month has been strange and seemed

482
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 14: to be lacking in concentration. Also, she seemed to lack confidence.

483
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 14: Any man that smiled or spoke to the missing person

484
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 14: caused her to believe that there was a likelihood of

485
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 14: some Eventually, Romance confided in them that she was having

486
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 14: an affair with Jacko, now in New Zealand. He too

487
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 14: was friends with the owners of the shop, and they

488
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 14: are aware that no such affair was happening. This is

489
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 14: supported by the letter from Jackson to the missing person.

490
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: Recently, Gary Jackson is still known to many as Jacko.

491
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: He spoke to my friend and colleague David Murray to

492
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: share some information about Bromlin.

493
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 5: Jacko was clearly.

494
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: Very fond of Bromwin, and Bromwin believed that with Jacko

495
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: she had a chance of a loving and healthy relationship.

496
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 18: See this is a trouble. I've had a stroke and

497
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 18: this is hard. I can remember the words where I

498
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 18: can't sound Gary.

499
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 9: Can I share this reporting with Headley for the podcast.

500
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 18: Absolutely?

501
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 5: It's really sad.

502
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 18: I didn't know that bron Wan liked me, and she

503
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 18: said you are the perfect person for me.

504
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 19: I really do like was Golbs tracked by that we

505
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 19: kiss and that's all we did. I said that I

506
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 19: loved her and Rowan was tall, lay the shoes, a

507
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 19: beautiful woman.

508
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 18: She just left John and watching divorced. I had a

509
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 18: thing with her, was about two weeks. It wasn't sexual

510
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 18: because we didn't have sex. There was more than friendship,

511
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 18: you know. But John was always around us.

512
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 20: We couldn't go out anywhere.

513
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 18: John was out there sitting in his chair watching us.

514
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 18: I knew John before, but he was terrible for her.

515
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 18: John intimidated her.

516
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 9: Can you tell me what you think happened?

517
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 18: Yeah, he killed her. John killed her, but they can't

518
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 18: find the body at the police didn't do their job.

519
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: Broman had separate from her husband and was struggling to

520
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: make ends meet while living in rented accommodation with her

521
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: two girls. Good friends tell me she had confided she

522
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: was fearful of John. She was no doubt lonely, distracted,

523
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: lacking in confidence, and hopeful of meeting someone else. You

524
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: heard in an earlier episode from Kelly O'Brien, one of

525
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: the local heroes of lenox because of her longtime commitment

526
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: to young people in the community. I asked Kelly what

527
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: she remembered about the efforts by police in nineteen ninety

528
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: three when they started talking to people in Lenox Head

529
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: about Bromin's disappearance. Detective Graham Diskin, along with the detective

530
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: Wayne Tembe, spoke to a number of people who knew

531
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Bromin in nineteen ninety three, and they spoke to them

532
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three. They didn't take any statements from

533
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: any people at that time. Call from nineteen ninety three

534
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: the tone or commitment of police. Why your contact with Brohman,

535
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: your recollections of her as a mother and so on

536
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: were not actually put down in formal statements as they

537
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: were five years later.

538
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 20: I remember thinking.

539
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 21: That it was so scared what they were asking and

540
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 21: how they approached the staff around what had happened. I

541
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 21: remember thinking it was so unprofessional and poor at the time. Honestly,

542
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 21: The first conversations were like two minute conversation, and I

543
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 21: was like, really, is that it?

544
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it is such an unusual thing, isn't it?

545
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: A mother with two small girls and everybody says she

546
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: doated on them? Just vanishers, never contacts anybody again, who's

547
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: never seen again, doesn't return to say hang on, I've

548
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: got a legal right to half this house. I need

549
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: money to support myself. Do you find all of that bizarre?

550
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 21: I guess I had a blind trust that I wasn't

551
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 21: that important to be speaking with, and perhaps the other

552
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 21: people that they were speaking with they were.

553
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 20: Getting more from.

554
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 21: Because I'd never been involved with the system in these ways.

555
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 21: I became more infuriated that it had not been dealt

556
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 21: with properly and was cross.

557
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 20: How does someone disappear?

558
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 21: And no one seemed to care that was responsible for

559
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 21: finding out the answer. To think that people would believe

560
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 21: a story that she'd listened to a Taro reader and

561
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 21: then run off with someone's quite ludicrous. I still think

562
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 21: that if they had have dealt with that really swiftly,

563
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 21: we wouldn't be here today talking.

564
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 20: Yeah, it would have been solved. It's really sad.

565
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: Do you have any ideas as to why it was

566
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: treated just so routinely in those early days.

567
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 21: No, I can only imagine that they had some sense

568
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 21: or view that women weren't important, or women did these

569
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 21: things and believed here. So I'll just find that kind

570
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 21: of thing outrageous to entertain. Any idea that we don't

571
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 21: count is something I wouldn't want to think. It surprised

572
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 21: me at the time as a young person, and certainly

573
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 21: now working in the field, I would call out pretty slack.

574
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 21: It is baffling, and I don't know whether our society

575
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 21: was happy to just turn a blind eye or let

576
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 21: things be.

577
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: I know from talking to other women a little bit

578
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: older than us who have been in similar situations, they've said,

579
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: you trusted the police, you didn't speak up.

580
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 20: In hindsight, we were all very remiss in that we

581
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 20: were led by police.

582
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: So maybe people were fawning to the police rather than saying,

583
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: do you fricking jobs properly.

584
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 21: We're taught to believe our elders, our teachers, our administrators,

585
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 21: the priests, the police, and the doctors. But I think

586
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 21: we should never let the elephant be hanging around too

587
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 21: long under the table. I think it's best that transparency

588
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 21: comes about. We know as a society, we find things out,

589
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 21: we make things right in the end, and you get

590
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 21: a better sleep for it.

591
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a case of better late than never for Bromin.

592
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 21: Bromwin's not here, but certainly the girls and the girl's

593
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 21: children surely need to know their family story and the

594
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 21: rightness of it, the wrongness of it.

595
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the police running sheets from June

596
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. At two pm on June three, Graham

597
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: Diskin talk to Michelle Reid, Bromwyn's sister in law, and

598
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: the detective reported in the running sheet.

599
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 14: She is very concerned about the missing person and stated

600
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 14: that the actions of the missing person are identical to

601
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 14: what her mother did.

602
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: This is a reference to Bara Reid, the mother of

603
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: Bromwyn and Andy.

604
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 14: Reid has spoken to the mother and she does not

605
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 14: seem too concerned, although she is a schizophrenic herself.

606
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: At three pm, the detective talk to Bromwyn's solicitor in Lismore,

607
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: Chris McDevitt.

608
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 14: He has been instructed by the missing person so far

609
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 14: as property settlement and family law matters are concerned. He

610
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 14: stated that the missing person had sought advice about moving

611
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 14: back into the family home during a week prior to

612
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 14: her disappearance. He advised her that because the house was

613
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 14: jointly owned and the husband was in Sydney, her and

614
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 14: the children were quite entitled to move back in now.

615
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: The next line in the detective's running sheet, as a

616
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: result of talking to the solicitor mcdebittt, is in my

617
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: view important.

618
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 14: On Sunday May sixteenth, in the late afternoon, the missing

619
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 14: person contacted him and stated that her husband had returned

620
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 14: from Sydney and she was concerned about him being in

621
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 14: the house. Mcdevittt advised the missing person that she might

622
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 14: contact the police and inform them of the situation, and

623
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 14: if need be, have them call by as a precaution

624
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 14: in order to prevent a breach of the peace. The

625
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 14: missing person seemed happy with that and made an appointment

626
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 14: to see mcdebittt at nine am on May seventeen, nineteen

627
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 14: ninety three, an appointment she never kept.

628
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: This is a striking piece of information. Firstly, let me

629
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: clarify the contact. The telephone call from rom When to

630
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: her solicitor was a local call. That's why it didn't

631
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: show up. When the detective got information about meeted calls

632
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: or long distance calls. But as of three pm on

633
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: June three, Detective Sergeant Graham Discin has been told by

634
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: a lawyer an officer of the Supreme Court, that his

635
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: client had called him out of ours on a Sunday

636
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: and they then talked about escalating it to police. This

637
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: is surely a red flag, but no, it appeared to

638
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: have changed nothing and no statement was taken by police

639
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: from Chris mcdebittt in nineteen ninety three. The only record

640
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: made at the time was the brief June three entry

641
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: by Detective Sergeant Graham Discan in the police running sheet.

642
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: It seems that police continued to treat Bromman as a

643
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: brooding housewife who walked away from her kids. In an

644
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: earlier episode, you heard that Broman's appointment time with her

645
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: solicitor was a lie.

646
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 5: Am.

647
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: The arrangement had been made the previous week, not in

648
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: a Sunday afternoon telephone call. I've wondered whether Bromwin and

649
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: Chris mcdebittt decided to bring the meeting forward by two

650
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: hours to nine am as a result of John's arrival

651
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: in Lenox. Did things become more urgent and focused on

652
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: June four which is getting onto three weeks.

653
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 5: Since Bromwin's disappearance.

654
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: Detective Graham Diskin telephoned Bromwin's half sister, Kim Marshall, was

655
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: twenty two at the time and she lived in Tasmania

656
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: with her mother, Barbara, Bromwin's mother. According to the entry,

657
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: Kim believed that Bromwyn would contact Kim soon, as they

658
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: had plans to catch up in Lenox on June fourteen.

659
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 14: Kim states that Bromwin is very similar to mother. When

660
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 14: everything builds up around her, she will walk away and

661
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 14: eventually go and get some help. Believes that she appears

662
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 14: to be unusual in not taking or contacting children since

663
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 14: May sixth. Kim also believes that, like their mother, Bromwin

664
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 14: suffered a hormonal imbalance after the birth of the children,

665
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 14: which causes them to be irrational. Kim believes that Brombin

666
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 14: will get help and then walk into the family home

667
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 14: like nothing has happened.

668
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: On June eighth, detectives Graham Diskin and Wayne Tenby note

669
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: that they went to see a close friend of Bromin,

670
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: a woman I've called Joan. In an earlier episode of

671
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: this podcast series, Joan isn't her real name, but you

672
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: heard her voice in episode two. She has asked that

673
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: I not reveal her true name.

674
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 14: She stated that she had spoken to the missing person

675
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 14: on the morning of May sixteen, and all appeared well,

676
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 14: although the missing person seemed to be rambling on about

677
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 14: things in general and slightly confused, no mention about leaving

678
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 14: or being in fear of anybody.

679
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 5: I received a different version from Joan.

680
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 3: Are you saying now that you believed in ninety ninety three,

681
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: within a few days of Brown disappearing, that you suspected

682
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 3: foul play by John.

683
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 22: Yeah, I'd fill it. I'd like to report it to

684
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 22: the police, but not being family, I didn't think they'd

685
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 22: taken any notice of this. He told me that I

686
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 22: was a planned trip. She was had an opportunity to

687
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 22: go to Queensland for a couple of weeks, and I

688
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 22: felt it, well, it wasn't a plan trip because I'd

689
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 22: just spoken to her, because I said, well, she wouldn't

690
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 22: have just gone away and leave the kids. So he

691
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 22: had to report it. I even went to the police

692
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 22: station after he'd said he had reported, to check if

693
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 22: he had, because it wasn't.

694
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: Sure he would have, and what did they tell you that.

695
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 22: To start with, they were treating it as like a

696
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 22: domestic sitch basis, the people go missing because they want

697
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 22: to sometimes, but now they were treating it as a

698
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 22: missing person.

699
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: Did you say to the police in nineteen ninety three,

700
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: I suspect that Jonathan has got rid of his wife

701
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: and he's just lying now about her going on a trip.

702
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 22: Probably not straight away, but when they started coming around

703
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 22: asking questions, I did say it, Well, I don't believe

704
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 22: what he was saying, that she'd planned it and she

705
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 22: wouldn't go off and leave the kids.

706
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 20: It would have been weeks, I'd.

707
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: Say, And there was a detective discount. Yeah, do you

708
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: remember him, yes? Do you believe you told him that

709
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: you thought it was suspicious?

710
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 20: I would say so, yes.

711
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: But your recollection is that you told at least detective

712
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: disc And in nineteen ninety three, within weeks of Bromin's disappearance,

713
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: that you were suspicious of possible foul play.

714
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 22: He'd come around a few times, so it could have

715
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 22: been more than a couple of weeks.

716
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 20: But yeah, I suspected.

717
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 22: Just didn't make sense.

718
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: Why then didn't it become a full blown murder investigation

719
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three.

720
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 22: I have no idea. I think they messed up.

721
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: Why hasn't there been more disquiet in this little community?

722
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 22: It's me I can understand it. But John also said, oh,

723
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 22: she was seen in Ninburn. No, I said, I can't

724
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 22: imagine Bromwin walking down the street in Lidburn, little mane.

725
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 22: If he didn't do it, I feel sorry for him

726
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 22: because we all think that he did.

727
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: Now let's go back to Detective Discan's internal police report.

728
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 14: Since the report of the missing person, checks with the

729
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 14: Commonwealth Bank, Kirklands Medicare, Harveyworld Travel, jet Set Travel and

730
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 14: CountryLink rail services have all met with a negative result.

731
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 14: On June ten, interviewed Solicitor Graham Holland of Byron Bay

732
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 14: states that he had been consulted by the missing person

733
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 14: on May four regarding dissolution of marriage, property settlement and

734
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 14: custody of the two girls, which was to take priority.

735
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 14: The missing person was in fear of returning to the

736
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 14: family home if the husband should return from Sydney whilst

737
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 14: she was residing there. Solicitor Holland stated that she had

738
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 14: very little money and was only concerned about the welfare

739
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 14: of her two little girls.

740
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: Detective Sergeant Graham Diskin has reported.

741
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 14: Spoke again to John Winfield by telephone, unable to assist

742
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 14: with any further information, and he has had no contact

743
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 14: from missing person. Stated that he had been ringing family

744
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 14: over the last few days, hoping they had heard something.

745
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: The running sheet shows that the detectives had a conversation

746
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: with someone from a family support group in Ballina.

747
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 14: Card indicates that there has only been emotional abuse by

748
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 14: the husband towards the missing person. On April nineteen, seemed

749
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 14: to be coping well with the pension, but was alarmed

750
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 14: if husband were to return to the family home.

751
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: You heard in the first episode that Romman's contact with

752
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: the ballaner Byron Family Support Service had been diorized by

753
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: a counselor there, Doreen Strong. Perhaps she wrote about it

754
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: on a card at the support service. Is that missus,

755
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: Dorian Strong? Yes, your daughter in law contacted me. She

756
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: said that you remembered the case.

757
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 23: Yeah, well I did, because I did the initial call

758
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 23: from them when she was wanting to make an appointment.

759
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: I've mentioned your connection to the case in one of

760
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: the episodes.

761
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 23: Yeah. Well, look, I was looking forward to trying to

762
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 23: find my original statement.

763
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 1: It's not very long. If you'd like, I can read

764
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: it to you.

765
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 22: Ah.

766
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 23: Yes, I was in holidays and Tasmania and I had

767
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 23: a call from our manager Trish, who said the detectives

768
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 23: were looking back into it. Now that would have been

769
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 23: gosh aunt about two thousand or something like that. I'm

770
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 23: not quite sure exactly what you So you made.

771
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: It in October nineteen ninety eight at Ballina Police Station

772
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: and say, I'm currently employed as a support worker at

773
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: the Ballana Byron Family Support Service. You received a telephone

774
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: call on Friday, the second of April from a woman

775
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: named Bromwin Winfield, who was living in Lennox Head. You say,

776
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: I recall Bromwin stating that she had left her husband

777
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: ten days earlier. Bromin indicated that there had been emotional

778
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: violence and threats relating to custody of her children. Broman

779
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: stated that she had been to a solicitor and had

780
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: received advice in relation to custody of the children. Broman

781
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: stated that she was feeling better, but felt she needed

782
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: some support. I told Bromwin that the service would telephone

783
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: her back and arrange an appointment to see her. Details

784
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: surrounding this conversation are recorded on the original day sheet

785
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: for the second of April nineteen ninety three, retained by

786
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: the service.

787
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 23: Yeah, yeah, I can remember it quite clearly. We spoke

788
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 23: to it, and I think it was one of Broman's

789
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 23: friends that it was ringing and talking to us about it.

790
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 23: I was doing intake that day and it was another

791
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 23: worker that was going to see her.

792
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: On the next page, you say from records, I am

793
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: able to say that on Wednesday, the seventh of April

794
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, a family support worker, Stephanie Irvin, contacted

795
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: Bromwan by telephone.

796
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 21: Yeah.

797
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: Records indicate that Bromwin stated that she could not talk

798
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: to Stephanie over the phone as someone was there and

799
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: she could not go into any depth. The records state

800
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: that Broman sounded okay, voice was strong, but the girls

801
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: need some help. The records indicate that Bromin stated that

802
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: she would get back to us. From records maintained, I

803
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: could also say that on Thursday, fifteen April nineteen ninety three,

804
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: there was a phone call from Bromwan received. Bromen apparently

805
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: stated that she was coping okay, but feels that she

806
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: would like someone to talk to Bromen requested that Stephanie

807
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: Irvin telephoned her. The statement goes on to say that

808
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: the record show a telephone call was made to Bromwin

809
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: by Stephanie and an appointment was made for a house

810
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: visit at ten am on April twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three,

811
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: but no person.

812
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 5: Was at home.

813
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: The last paragraph of your statement, missus Strong says, from

814
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: my experience as a family support counselor, I find it

815
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: strange that Broman would go missing without taking the children,

816
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: as she was concerned over their custody. Just prior to

817
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: her disappearance, Broman was concerned over the custody of her children,

818
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: and there was no indication that she intended to give

819
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: custody of the children to her husband. Yeah.

820
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 23: Well, after that conversation with her, and she was concerned

821
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 23: that he would come and take the children.

822
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 20: That was so.

823
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 23: I think I have heard her to Tony Mannering he

824
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 23: was the solicited whether she kept that or not that appointment.

825
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 1: Yes, she did see him.

826
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 23: I remember saying to the police at the time, and

827
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 23: like she wouldn't leave the kids because that was her

828
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 23: main concern when she rang.

829
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: Right, do you recall the tone or anything about the

830
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: conduct of the police in the original inquiry that came

831
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: just weeks after Bromin disappeared. When they spoke to you.

832
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 23: No, I just thought they would be doing their job.

833
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 23: I didn't get any indication that they weren't serious about it.

834
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 23: But I'd listen to your podcast and evidently there was

835
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 23: lots of things that weren't done initially. I know it's

836
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 23: a long time ago, but I can still remember it,

837
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 23: and we talked about it at work between workers, and

838
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 23: it was ever Or one of her friends who was

839
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 23: really not going to live up on it. She was

840
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 23: quite concerned. We still remember. And now I've just turned eighty.

841
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 23: I'm not young anymore.

842
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: When did you retire from the service, missus Strong?

843
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 23: I worked there for eighteen years and then I retired

844
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 23: in twenty eleven.

845
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: Well, in your statement, you say that records indicate that

846
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: on four June nineteen ninety three, a friend of Bromin's

847
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: contacted the service stating that Broman had been missing for

848
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: about three weeks and had taken no clothes and her

849
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: bank accounts had not been touched. And you say that

850
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: this friend was checking the service to see if Broman

851
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: had been in touch. In the podcast, we're referring to

852
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: this woman as Joan, not as her real name, so

853
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: you will have a different name.

854
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 22: It's the police looking into it, like they said, and

855
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 22: I've gone missing all time because they want to, and

856
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 22: I think that's the view they had to start with.

857
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 22: She would not go off and leave their kids.

858
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: So I think she's probably the person who put Romin

859
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: in touch.

860
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 23: I know she had several conversations about her missing and

861
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 23: she was quite concerned.

862
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,479
Speaker 1: Do you have any ideas as to why this wasn't

863
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: taken more seriously at the time. And it's so unusual

864
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: for a woman to disappear when she's got children and

865
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: clearly seems dedicated to them, and she's actually going through

866
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: a separation from her husband. About whom she's concerned.

867
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 23: Well, we were all concerned, and naturally if we were concerned,

868
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 23: we would have thought the authorities would have been concerned

869
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 23: as well.

870
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: You spoke to detectives Discn and Tembe in June of

871
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, but no statement taken from you until

872
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 1: October twenty eight, nineteen ninety eight, five years later.

873
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 23: Five years here. Yeah, well, I just can't remember the

874
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 23: conversation with those two detectives.

875
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm really glad we've had this chat, Missus Strong.

876
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 23: I just hope that something can be done.

877
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: It is possible that a page or more of the

878
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: police file from nineteen ninety three disappeared before the detective

879
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: Sergeant Glenn Taylor became involved and did a thorough investigation

880
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight. On June ten, Detective Wayne Temby

881
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: spoke to Tony Mannering, one of the three solicitors visited by

882
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: Bromwan after she had separated from John. Tony Mannering had

883
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: a record of their meeting in his office on April two,

884
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 1: and this had resulted in a lengthy letter to broman

885
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 1: You heard most of it read aloud in a previous episode.

886
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: Here's what the detective Wayne Temby put down in the

887
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: police running sheet in June nineteen ninety three.

888
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 24: Stated that she appeared to be level headed and fully

889
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 24: aware of her intentions under wanted custody of the two children.

890
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 24: He subsequently informed her of guidelines in respect to family

891
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 24: law matters in a letter which was sent on April six.

892
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: The next major document in the police files is a

893
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: three and a half page report dated July fourteen, nineteen

894
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: ninety three and written by a detective Senior Constable of

895
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: Ballina Police, a detective others rather than Graham Diskin or

896
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: Wayne Temby. The first paragraph of the police report sets

897
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: the tone.

898
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 17: It states, about nine point thirty pm on Sunday, May sixteen,

899
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 17: Bronwyn Joy Winfield born April twenty fourth, nineteen sixty two

900
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 17: of Sandstone Crescent, Lennox Head went into the main bedroom

901
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 17: of the family home and made a telephone call. Shortly after,

902
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 17: she walked out the front door of the house, and

903
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 17: a car was heard to drive away from the area.

904
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 17: Missus Winfield has not been seen or heard from since

905
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 17: that date.

906
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: This report was circulated among police, but right from the

907
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: start it fully adopts the version of events that has

908
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: come from Romwin's husband, John Winfield. There is not a

909
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 1: hint of a suggestion that this version from him might

910
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: be self serving. John was the only purported witness and

911
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: the last person known to have seen Roman. None of

912
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: the neighbors or heard a car at nine point thirty

913
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: pm stop outside the house. Why wasn't the report's opening

914
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: expressed factually such as according to the account given by

915
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: the husband of the missing person, she went into the

916
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: main bedroom of the family home and made a telephone call.

917
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 1: The next misleading point in the report states.

918
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 17: The husband, Jonathan Winfield, has been interviewed no less than

919
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 17: six times and he's not been able to offer any

920
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 17: ideas as to her whereabouts.

921
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: According to the records, the police spoke to John, but

922
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,439
Speaker 1: they didn't record an interview with him until nineteen ninety eight.

923
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: No statement was taken from him or anyone else until

924
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight. The other theme of this police report

925
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: revolves around Bromman's mental health.

926
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 17: Missus Winfield, according to close friends, appeared to be suffering

927
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 17: from a state of mental confusion in the weeks leading

928
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 17: up to her disappate appearance, and after visiting a clairvoyant

929
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 17: at Lennox Head, she believed that he was her father.

930
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: The report discloses that the clairvoyant was put under covert surveillance.

931
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 17: This was carried out for two days and evenings and

932
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 17: met with a negative result.

933
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: The report then discloses more of John Winfield's version of

934
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: what happened. When he arrived at the house on the

935
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: Sunday evening May sixteen.

936
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 17: He stated that his wife met him at the door

937
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 17: and they sat and talked for some time in the

938
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 17: dining room. The children were then put to bed and

939
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 17: both he and his wife had an evening meal.

940
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: There is no reference whatsoever to any altercation, and the

941
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: concerns expressed by Bromwin two solicitors whom she consulted have

942
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: been minimized.

943
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 17: Inquiries revealed that Jonathan and the two girls left Sandstone

944
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 17: Crescent around eleven pm and traveled to Ballina, where he

945
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 17: filled the car with petrol and traveled to Sydney. It

946
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 17: would appear that whilst the husband was traveling to Sydney,

947
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 17: the missing person has returned to the family home, gathered

948
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 17: some clothes and her handbag, and made another double zero

949
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,439
Speaker 17: double five call.

950
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: This is a reference to the error made about the

951
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: telephone call, the one that was actually made at two

952
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: thirteen pm on a Sunday, and how police somehow misconstrued

953
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: it as having happened at two thirteen am on Monday.

954
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 17: When listened to for that period, the recorded voice supplies

955
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 17: lot of results.

956
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: And then after disclosing that Bromman has not been in

957
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: touch with anyone and apparently left with little to know

958
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: money and hadn't touched her bank accounts, the report revisits

959
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: Bromwin's state of mind. The report states.

960
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 17: It is known the missing person was suffering from a

961
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 17: mental state of confusion. Documents in the handwriting of the

962
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 17: missing person located at the family home indicate that she

963
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 17: may have been suffering from mild depression. It would also

964
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 17: appear that she carries some form of grudge against certain

965
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 17: members of her family over property dealings, and her father

966
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 17: over minor things. On July twelveth, nineteen ninety three, Jonathan

967
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 17: Winfield reported to police that he had been absent in

968
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 17: Sydney with his children from June twenty sixth to July eleven.

969
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 17: Upon his return to Sandstone Crescent, Lennox Head, he found

970
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 17: that clothing belonging to the missing person, together with photographs,

971
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 17: had been taken from the family home.

972
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: The unlikelihood of this does not seem to have been

973
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: considered by police. They know from their inquiries with her

974
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: bank that she has not withdrawn one dollar of her

975
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: own money for food or shelter. Why how did they

976
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: imagine she was supporting herself from May sixteen until the

977
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: day on which she has, according to John, gone back

978
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: into the house. Briefly, the final paragraph states.

979
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 17: It is now requested that particulars of telephone calls made

980
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 17: by the missing person from her home and from her

981
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 17: neighbors be canvassed in an effort to locate her.

982
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: In terms of suspicion, none whatsoever is expressed in relation

983
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: to the husband from whom Bronwyn had newly separated. The

984
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: only person regarded with suspicion apart from Bromwyn was a

985
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: local clairvoyant and tarot card reader who was put under

986
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: surveillance for two days, with more police attention to come.

987
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 5: As the report.

988
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 17: States, arrangements are now in place to have a regional

989
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 17: crime squad surveillance unit carry out further observations, particularly of

990
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 17: his nighttime activities.

991
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Bronwyn's second cousin, Maddie Walsh, and I have arrived at

992
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: the home of Terry Batisse and her husband Brian at

993
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: Ocean Shores, about a half hour drive north of Lenox.

994
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: When Terry was thirty, she and Bromwan were friends on

995
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: the local Lenox school's playgroup committee.

996
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 25: I was the treasurer, she was the president, and I

997
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 25: think Denise was the secretary. There was this psych called

998
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 25: Pendragon hanging around Lennox at the time. She'd been to

999
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 25: him and the talk was did he tell her something

1000
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 25: that made her want to go and hide.

1001
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 22: For a little while.

1002
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 25: That was the talk that was going around.

1003
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: And what's obvious from the police files is that after

1004
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: Bromwin disappeared, he was the only person who was put

1005
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: under any kind of surveillance. In subsequent investigations by the

1006
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: then detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor from nineteen ninety eight, the

1007
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: man known as Pendragon was ruled out as a person

1008
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: of interest. Harry recalled Broman's love of children and maternalistic instincts.

1009
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 25: Once my daughter was born, I was in balin affair

1010
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 25: and she saw me and she came up and she

1011
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 25: was just, oh.

1012
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 4: What a beautiful baby.

1013
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 25: She was just so overwhelming. It was like, oh, you're

1014
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 25: so lucky, genuine, very heartwarming, and she was just so

1015
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 25: kind with my new little baby.

1016
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: But when Bromin vanished under those bizarre circumstances in May

1017
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Terry's husband Brian, a former first grade

1018
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: and two time Grand Final winning rugby league player for

1019
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: the Canterbury Bulldogs in the nineteen eighties, immediately fastened onto

1020
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: a grave view.

1021
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 4: Terry tom of the story and I said, she's dead.

1022
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 4: I'll guarantee you'll never see your friend again.

1023
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 25: Probably because I said she would never leave those girls,

1024
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 25: never ever would leave.

1025
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 9: Terry was a good shocked when I said that.

1026
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: I remember why, given that certainty that so many people

1027
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: had that she wouldn't have left her kids, didn't it

1028
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: become a more serious police matter very early?

1029
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 25: Definitely, my friend was always onto it. She kept ringing

1030
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 25: the detective every week, what are you doing?

1031
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 5: What are you doing?

1032
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 25: And I think people in town may have been dead perhaps,

1033
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 25: and no one really came to any sort of decision.

1034
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 5: Were you scared of him?

1035
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 4: No, I guess I can't fright.

1036
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 9: Nine out watch the police.

1037
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 20: Police goes over.

1038
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: This will be a try.

1039
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 9: Brian police goes over.

1040
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 25: He do he ripped himself around, he saw the break,

1041
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 25: He stepped over three players.

1042
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 26: It definitely sounds like when I hear all you guys

1043
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 26: talking about it, it's something that was kept so under wraps.

1044
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 4: It was more of a whisper than a talk.

1045
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 26: It was kept in No one disappears at the face

1046
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 26: of the earth for no reason, So hopefully with the

1047
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 26: media involvement.

1048
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 27: What do you think they will do when police do

1049
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 27: a good investigation as they did in the second stage

1050
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 27: of this in ninety eight, and then they get a

1051
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 27: police brief evidence to the corner, and the corner recommends

1052
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 27: a prosecution. The DPP, when it says no, never has

1053
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 27: to explain properly why. In early two thousand and three,

1054
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 27: the DPP told the police that there's nobody, no evidence

1055
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 27: that John killed Bromlin, so we're not going to prosecute.

1056
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 27: Have they misunderstood something in the evidence that's caused them

1057
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 27: to come to this negative view.

1058
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 5: We don't know, because they don't have to say.

1059
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: I think a lot of Roman's friends and family believe

1060
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: that if all of the circumstances, if they were all

1061
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: put before a jury, then what.

1062
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 9: Other explanations exactly.

1063
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: You just hope that a fresh set of eyes in

1064
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: the office of the DPP would come along and say,

1065
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: let's take another look at this. Why didn't we prosecute

1066
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: it back in two thousand and three after the inquest.

1067
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 4: Well, I still believe then she.

1068
01:04:58,080 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 23: Died that night.

1069
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: Marilyn Hannigan lives in the nearby town of Ballina these days,

1070
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: but in the nineteen nineties she and her partner Bruce

1071
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: Huxtable were near neighbors of John and Bromwin. In Sandstone Crescent.

1072
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: They were fond of Bromwyn and wary of John. Bruce

1073
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: died in two thousand and five.

1074
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 28: The last time I saw her actually standing in the

1075
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 28: driveway beside the car. Oh my god, she was so

1076
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 28: tiny and so thin. We lived at fifty seven, just

1077
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 28: cross the road on the corner, and my partner was

1078
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:43,959
Speaker 28: a retired senior detective sergeant with police. The first time

1079
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 28: somebody came to the neighborhood actually and ask us about anything,

1080
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 28: it was about five months after she disappeared, and Bruce

1081
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 28: gave this copper a hell of addressing down because he said,

1082
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 28: she's been missing for five months and it's just now

1083
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 28: that you're coming to us the neighbors and whatever. And

1084
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 28: it was like, you, well, you wouldn't have been on

1085
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 28: my team mate, and that sort of stuff.

1086
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 5: He was with Victoria Police.

1087
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 20: Yeah.

1088
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: Do you recall whether after Bromin disappeared, In the months

1089
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: after she disappeared, what the thinking was about what had happened.

1090
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 28: Bruce had pretty well said straight up, oh what the

1091
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 28: hell has he done with her?

1092
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: Were you more of the view that Bromin might have

1093
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: wanted to take a.

1094
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 20: Break, No, she wouldn't have left those girls and.

1095
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,959
Speaker 1: Bruce being retired, he didn't feel that he could do.

1096
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 5: Anything he could have.

1097
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 28: We had a spit catering business that we did go

1098
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 28: and do a few jobs for police at different times,

1099
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 28: like Ballana police.

1100
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 20: We'd do a pig on the spit. He did know

1101
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 20: local policemen.

1102
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: So why do you think there wasn't a whole lot

1103
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: more focus and concern from police but also from the community.

1104
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 20: I don't really know.

1105
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 28: It just seemed to be a botch from the word go,

1106
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:17,959
Speaker 28: and I know Dare She would ring them every week

1107
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 28: and then every month or whatever and ask the police

1108
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 28: had they gotten news, have done anything new, or.

1109
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 4: All that sort of stuff.

1110
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 20: She was really dogged. Nothing much ever happened. It just

1111
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 20: all seems so unfair and awful.

1112
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: Close your eyes and picture Roman coming in with her daughters.

1113
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 29: Yes, yes, it was all about the little girls having

1114
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 29: their head trimmed, their little friends trimmed, and had them

1115
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,439
Speaker 29: dressed beautifully. And she was always well dressed too, very

1116
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 29: neat and tidy. You can't help but notice somebody like that,

1117
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 29: because in Lennox it was all hippie stuff.

1118
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: Longtime local of Lenox head people like Bernadette Armstrong are

1119
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 1: hearing about this investigation and striving to help. They've harbored

1120
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: grave concerns for three decades. A retired senior police officer,

1121
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor disclosed in the first episode of this podcast

1122
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: series that the original investigation into Broman's disappearance was very poor.

1123
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: The more I talk to people from lenox the more

1124
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: misguided the nineteen ninety three investigation looks. It's difficult to

1125
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: disagree with the view of many in this place that

1126
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: police back in nineteen ninety three, when the trail was fresh,

1127
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 1: saw Bromwin as a feckless young woman who'd possibly taken

1128
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: off with another fella. But as Bromin's neighbor and good

1129
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: friend Debhaul described it to me one day recently, it

1130
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 1: is a two way street. There were undoubtedly people in

1131
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: Lenox Head who kept their suspicions and knowledge of some

1132
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: things to them, and the police are not mind readers.

1133
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 1: I have tried to talk to the former Detective Sergeant

1134
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 1: Graham Diskin, who was in charge of the investigation in

1135
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. His side of things is important, but

1136
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: he has declined to talk about the case. He has

1137
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 1: been retired from the New South Wales Police for more

1138
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: than twenty years. In nineteen ninety three, there was a

1139
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: more junior officer, Wayne Temby, who helped Graham discin in

1140
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: those early days. Wayne Temby has been retired for some

1141
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: time too, and he also declined an interview request. Wayne

1142
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: Temby played an integral role in the subsequent investigation in

1143
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, led by Glenn Taylor, which made so

1144
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 1: much progress. But you can't silence women like Bernadette Armstrong.

1145
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 29: I have to tell you onto this right from the

1146
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 29: word Joe, I want to see her found.

1147
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,720
Speaker 1: Bernie's hairdressing salon had pride of place next to a

1148
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant in Lennox Head in the nineteen nineties, and

1149
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: opposite was Eden's Takeaway, where Broman worked part time.

1150
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,520
Speaker 29: I've been churned up the last few days about the podcast.

1151
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 29: I'll never rest until I find out what happened to

1152
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 29: that Paul girl. I did thirty six years of hairdressing.

1153
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 29: I've done thousands of people's hair, especially women, And do

1154
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 29: you know out of all the people I've done, Bromwan

1155
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 29: stood out to me and she struck me as the

1156
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 29: most wonderful, impeccable mother.

1157
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 20: I never lost that feeling.

1158
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 29: Whenever she came in, I think, oh my god, she's

1159
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 29: got the dress beautifully. So when that happened that she'd disappeared,

1160
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 29: there was a fellow called Graham.

1161
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:51,879
Speaker 4: Graham disc game discan.

1162
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 20: Yeah, yeah, have you heard of him?

1163
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I've heard of him, but I do know that

1164
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 1: he was involved in the original investigation in nineteen ninety

1165
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 1: three when Bromin first disappeared.

1166
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 29: That's exactly right. But he came into my salon. I

1167
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 29: didn't know him really from a bar of soap and

1168
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 29: I was at turning to a lady's here. I was

1169
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 29: doing her hair and I had another lady in the

1170
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 29: chair next to her, and he went, Bernadette, I believe

1171
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 29: you know Bromin Winfield. And I said, oh, yes, she's

1172
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 29: kind here. And he said, come on, this is where

1173
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 29: we find the gossip. This is how he spoke to me.

1174
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 29: Come on, you're in here, all you girls, and you

1175
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 29: know what she's done. I said, what are you talking about?

1176
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 29: And I got on the high horse straight away, and

1177
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 29: he said, you've got the goss here. I said, I

1178
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,600
Speaker 29: haven't got the goths here. Just spit it out and

1179
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 29: what do you want? And he went, you know she's

1180
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 29: run off with somebody. She would have told you she's

1181
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 29: got a boyfriend. And he went, yeah, come on, he said,

1182
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 29: she's run away. And I said, listen, stop right now.

1183
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 29: I said, don't you speak to me like that. And

1184
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 29: I said, and I'm telling you now that I know

1185
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 29: nothing about that.

1186
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 20: He said it.

1187
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 29: About three times, and I thought, you say that again,

1188
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 29: I said.

1189
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 20: Graham, I said, I'm busy.

1190
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 18: Oh was wild?

1191
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 29: How dare he try to put words in my mouth? Oh,

1192
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 29: she's got a fellow. She's run up with a fellow.

1193
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 29: That's what he was saying. Get your fact right, you know,

1194
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 29: before he come into my place and start spreading gossip.

1195
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 29: I said, she was a lovely client. That's all I know.

1196
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 29: I said, I know nothing personally about the girl.

1197
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 20: I said, but I'll tell you what.

1198
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 29: That's something I would never believe that she's left those

1199
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 29: two little girls. And you know, I've stuck to that

1200
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 29: headly all the way through, all the way through, and

1201
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 29: I'm still still the same. And I complained to them

1202
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 29: in that ball at the police station. I said, listen,

1203
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 29: he came in here into my salon and I said,

1204
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 29: tell me what I thought or knew. She would never

1205
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 29: have left the Little Girls and I will never change

1206
01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:09,440
Speaker 29: that opinion ever.

1207
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as

1208
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information

1209
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me

1210
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.

1211
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a

1212
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:39,879
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn

1213
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.

1214
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 5: The production and.

1215
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: Editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey, Kristin Amiot, Joshua Burton, Bridget,

1216
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns, Liam Mendez, Sean Callen,

1217
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 1: Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio production for this podcast

1218
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: series is by Wasabi Audio and original theme music by

1219
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 1: Slade Gibson. We have been assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation.

1220
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 5: Of Romwin Winfield.

1221
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: We can only do this kind of journalism with the

1222
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:22,759
Speaker 1: support of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.

1223
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 1: For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and

1224
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 1: documents about this podcast and other podcasts, including The Teacher's pet,

1225
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: the teachers Trial, the Teacher's accuser, Shandy's Story, Shandy's.

1226
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 5: Legacy and The Night Driver.

1227
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: Go to the Australian dot com dot au and subscribe