1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,080 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,410 --> 00:00:10,800 Sean Aylmer: I've talked before about ASIC cracking gown on greenwashing, where 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,849 Sean Aylmer: funds might be misrepresenting the environmental credentials or sustainability of 4 00:00:14,849 --> 00:00:18,209 Sean Aylmer: a financial product. And it goes beyond finance and investing 5 00:00:18,209 --> 00:00:21,779 Sean Aylmer: to any company making environmental claims. It's something we're going 6 00:00:21,780 --> 00:00:24,689 Sean Aylmer: to hear plenty more about as more companies focus on 7 00:00:24,690 --> 00:00:29,760 Sean Aylmer: their ESG credentials. It emphasizes the importance of transparency, of good, 8 00:00:29,849 --> 00:00:35,070 Sean Aylmer: clear communication, and supporting claims with proof. Kiarne Treacy is 9 00:00:35,070 --> 00:00:38,280 Sean Aylmer: the Chief Executive Officer of Sustainable Choice Group. Part of 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,170 Sean Aylmer: the group is a web platform called sustainabilitytracker.com. Kiarne, welcome 11 00:00:43,170 --> 00:00:43,980 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:45,900 Kiarne Treacy: Thank you so much for having me. 13 00:00:45,901 --> 00:00:50,069 Sean Aylmer: So tell me all about Sustainability Tracker. What is it? Where'd it 14 00:00:50,070 --> 00:00:52,019 Sean Aylmer: come from? Where did the idea come from? 15 00:00:53,039 --> 00:00:57,780 Kiarne Treacy: So sustainabilitytracker. com is a web platform that is intended 16 00:00:57,780 --> 00:01:03,120 Kiarne Treacy: to centralise and democratise sustainability information for businesses, sort of 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,869 Kiarne Treacy: like your one stop shop for sustainability for consumers, for 18 00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:10,768 Kiarne Treacy: potential employees, for investors, for anybody who wants to get 19 00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:13,290 Kiarne Treacy: a peek under the covers of what a business is doing. 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,010 Kiarne Treacy: And it gives businesses an opportunity to communicate and talk 21 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:20,700 Kiarne Treacy: about the things that they're doing without having to put 22 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:22,920 Kiarne Treacy: it on a billboard and risk that they're greenwashing. But 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,779 Kiarne Treacy: actually having all of the information published on a public platform, 24 00:01:28,199 --> 00:01:31,709 Kiarne Treacy: and it's designed in line with the ACCC guidelines around 25 00:01:31,709 --> 00:01:34,680 Kiarne Treacy: greenwashing to help business. It's sort of got guardrails in 26 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,750 Kiarne Treacy: it to help businesses avoid greenwashing as they're uploading content 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,049 Kiarne Treacy: to it. The idea came about three and a half 28 00:01:43,049 --> 00:01:46,469 Kiarne Treacy: years ago. I'm a media and marketing person by trade 29 00:01:46,469 --> 00:01:50,520 Kiarne Treacy: and working with some clients who wanted to do marketing 30 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,540 Kiarne Treacy: campaigns around sustainability. And at the time, I didn't know 31 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:55,950 Kiarne Treacy: anything about it and I said, " Oh, it feels a 32 00:01:55,950 --> 00:01:58,079 Kiarne Treacy: little bit risky. Give me a bit of time to 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,679 Kiarne Treacy: look into it and see if we should be doing 34 00:02:01,679 --> 00:02:04,019 Kiarne Treacy: a big marketing campaign around this." And I said, " I 35 00:02:04,020 --> 00:02:06,330 Kiarne Treacy: don't think we're ready for that yet, because there's still 36 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:09,450 Kiarne Treacy: a few things to tick off." And then my client 37 00:02:09,450 --> 00:02:11,668 Kiarne Treacy: said to me, " Well, where do we put this information? 38 00:02:11,669 --> 00:02:13,800 Kiarne Treacy: How do we tell our story? How do we get 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,290 Kiarne Treacy: it out there?" And I said, " I honestly don't know. 40 00:02:16,290 --> 00:02:19,200 Kiarne Treacy: Let me go and look into it." And I started 41 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:22,439 Kiarne Treacy: looking for this central web platform to publish this data 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,650 Kiarne Treacy: and it didn't exist. And I felt that it should 43 00:02:25,650 --> 00:02:28,260 Kiarne Treacy: and that it would one day and all of a 44 00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:31,050 Kiarne Treacy: sudden I was on my way building it. So yeah, it 45 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:33,299 Kiarne Treacy: sort of just sprung from one idea one day, and 46 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:35,249 Kiarne Treacy: then minutes later I was writing a brand strategy on 47 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:35,941 Kiarne Treacy: how we were going to do it. 48 00:02:35,941 --> 00:02:38,729 Sean Aylmer: Wow. Okay. So let's take me through how it works. 49 00:02:38,730 --> 00:02:40,919 Sean Aylmer: I know John West, the seafood company is on the 50 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,590 Sean Aylmer: platform. Maybe you could use that as an example of 51 00:02:43,710 --> 00:02:46,709 Sean Aylmer: how sustainabilitytracker. com works. 52 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:50,579 Kiarne Treacy: So it's a search platform, so you can go in 53 00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:53,549 Kiarne Treacy: there and search for particular brands. If you're interested in 54 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:56,669 Kiarne Treacy: looking up a particular brand, if you want to understand the 55 00:02:56,669 --> 00:02:59,009 Kiarne Treacy: credentials of one of your favourites, you can search that way. 56 00:02:59,279 --> 00:03:01,950 Kiarne Treacy: Or you can look up tuna, for example, and you 57 00:03:01,950 --> 00:03:06,060 Kiarne Treacy: can see which brands on our website have tuna. And the 58 00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:09,809 Kiarne Treacy: idea is a business will publish the credentials that they have, 59 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:12,330 Kiarne Treacy: what is true and what they have. And so it's 60 00:03:12,330 --> 00:03:15,540 Kiarne Treacy: different for every different business. In the case of John West, 61 00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:20,730 Kiarne Treacy: they publish information about the Marine Stewardship Council and how 62 00:03:20,790 --> 00:03:24,960 Kiarne Treacy: they operate, how they source the seafood that they put 63 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,679 Kiarne Treacy: into a number of the brands their parent company Simplot owns, 64 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,089 Kiarne Treacy: and how they source more responsible seafood. And then in 65 00:03:33,089 --> 00:03:35,520 Kiarne Treacy: other cases of other businesses, it might be that they 66 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,350 Kiarne Treacy: are carbon- neutral and they might want to have that 67 00:03:37,350 --> 00:03:41,310 Kiarne Treacy: report available of their carbon neutrality. Others might be B 68 00:03:41,310 --> 00:03:44,580 Kiarne Treacy: Corp certified, and so they can put that on their profile. 69 00:03:44,790 --> 00:03:48,719 Kiarne Treacy: So it's really about saying there's no one size fits 70 00:03:48,719 --> 00:03:54,690 Kiarne Treacy: all approach, and there are hundreds of different frameworks and SBTi (Science Based Targets initiative) 71 00:03:54,690 --> 00:03:57,870 Kiarne Treacy: and all sorts of different ways that different businesses report 72 00:03:57,930 --> 00:04:02,219 Kiarne Treacy: on their sustainability. So we haven't restricted that as to 73 00:04:02,220 --> 00:04:04,889 Kiarne Treacy: sort of how you must do it. It's about being 74 00:04:04,889 --> 00:04:08,790 Kiarne Treacy: transparent about what you have. And then as I mentioned earlier, 75 00:04:08,940 --> 00:04:12,960 Kiarne Treacy: with regards to supporting those claims, we have tools in 76 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,650 Kiarne Treacy: there where you can upload your certificate, where you can 77 00:04:16,650 --> 00:04:20,520 Kiarne Treacy: break things down by their product lifecycle, where you can 78 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,988 Kiarne Treacy: upload your reports so that it's all on a single destination. 79 00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:28,289 Kiarne Treacy: It's easy to manage. And it's on a public platform 80 00:04:28,289 --> 00:04:31,950 Kiarne Treacy: where anybody can access it so that consumers can find 81 00:04:31,950 --> 00:04:34,260 Kiarne Treacy: it so that you can put your hand up and say, 82 00:04:34,980 --> 00:04:37,350 Kiarne Treacy: we're not perfect, but here's what we've got. We're transparent 83 00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:39,599 Kiarne Treacy: about it. We've got nothing to hide. And I think 84 00:04:39,599 --> 00:04:44,099 Kiarne Treacy: that's the biggest thing that's happening right now is about 85 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,570 Kiarne Treacy: this crippling fear of for businesses to talk about sustainability 86 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:52,020 Kiarne Treacy: because they're not finished and there's no such thing as finished. 87 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,630 Kiarne Treacy: So it's about starting the conversation. 88 00:04:54,630 --> 00:04:59,760 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So the provenance of what the companies are saying, 89 00:04:59,940 --> 00:05:02,698 Sean Aylmer: we are relying on the companies, and it sounds like 90 00:05:02,849 --> 00:05:06,510 Sean Aylmer: you're encouraging them to upload and provide the proof as 91 00:05:06,510 --> 00:05:07,470 Sean Aylmer: well, is that right? 92 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:11,220 Kiarne Treacy: Correct. Yep. It's a self- reporting tool. So obviously there 93 00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:13,799 Kiarne Treacy: are parameters around the level. They may need to be 94 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,710 Kiarne Treacy: completely honest and they've signed a whole bunch of agreements 95 00:05:16,710 --> 00:05:21,150 Kiarne Treacy: around that. But we allow the businesses to self- report, 96 00:05:21,210 --> 00:05:23,669 Kiarne Treacy: upload their own information to communicate the way that they 97 00:05:23,670 --> 00:05:26,880 Kiarne Treacy: want to. And yes, and it's designed that they can 98 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:29,130 Kiarne Treacy: upload the certificates and the proofs. So if they say 99 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:32,070 Kiarne Treacy: they're carbon- neutral, for example, this is where you can 100 00:05:32,070 --> 00:05:35,010 Kiarne Treacy: put your reports and your certificates and your third party 101 00:05:35,010 --> 00:05:37,889 Kiarne Treacy: certifiers to show that that's actually true. 102 00:05:38,339 --> 00:05:40,919 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Have you had a lot of interest from both 103 00:05:40,919 --> 00:05:44,910 Sean Aylmer: companies and then also from the public or people who 104 00:05:44,910 --> 00:05:48,630 Sean Aylmer: potentially want to know information about the green credentials of 105 00:05:48,630 --> 00:05:49,950 Sean Aylmer: an organization or an asset? 106 00:05:50,490 --> 00:05:54,178 Kiarne Treacy: Yeah, it's been really varied, I think. So there's a 107 00:05:54,178 --> 00:05:58,050 Kiarne Treacy: lot of consumer interest in things like fashion. Of course, 108 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,740 Kiarne Treacy: there's a movement around FMCG as well. I think people 109 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:03,690 Kiarne Treacy: are starting to think a lot more about what's in 110 00:06:03,690 --> 00:06:07,050 Kiarne Treacy: their trolley. But I think also what we are finding 111 00:06:07,050 --> 00:06:10,020 Kiarne Treacy: more than we probably expected is that businesses who are 112 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:13,080 Kiarne Treacy: wanting to look more into their supply chains as well 113 00:06:13,170 --> 00:06:16,080 Kiarne Treacy: and just be able to understand who's aligned with the 114 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,380 Kiarne Treacy: work that they do. So the way that the platform 115 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:21,779 Kiarne Treacy: works is that it could connect you. So in the case 116 00:06:21,779 --> 00:06:23,609 Kiarne Treacy: of John West, if you are a member of the 117 00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:27,540 Kiarne Treacy: Marine Stewardship Council, which they are, the Marine Stewardship Council 118 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:30,120 Kiarne Treacy: has a page on our platform with all of their 119 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,020 Kiarne Treacy: members. So it's about building this network and connecting businesses 120 00:06:34,020 --> 00:06:37,260 Kiarne Treacy: together so that they can see where they stack up 121 00:06:37,260 --> 00:06:39,210 Kiarne Treacy: against others, I guess. And who else is in their 122 00:06:39,210 --> 00:06:40,920 Kiarne Treacy: community and has aligned values. 123 00:06:41,310 --> 00:06:43,589 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Kiarne. We'll be back in a minute. 124 00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:53,159 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Kiarne Treacy, CEO of Sustainable Choice Group. 125 00:06:54,990 --> 00:06:57,180 Sean Aylmer: I mean, it's interesting with the companies coming on board, 126 00:06:57,779 --> 00:07:02,190 Sean Aylmer: is there a big diversity of how people are thinking 127 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:06,330 Sean Aylmer: about ESG? I don't want to say greenwashing, but I mean that the sort 128 00:07:06,330 --> 00:07:07,830 Sean Aylmer: of the Green Hushing concept. 129 00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:12,900 Kiarne Treacy: It's wild. So we recently launched the Leaders in Sustainability 130 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:16,020 Kiarne Treacy: Network, which is another platform in the Sustainable choice group 131 00:07:16,020 --> 00:07:21,090 Kiarne Treacy: because there's just been so much confusion and fear around 132 00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:23,309 Kiarne Treacy: what do we do? How do we do it right? 133 00:07:23,309 --> 00:07:26,129 Kiarne Treacy: How do we communicate it? We're not ready to communicate 134 00:07:26,130 --> 00:07:29,219 Kiarne Treacy: it yet. Most of the businesses that we talk to 135 00:07:29,219 --> 00:07:31,590 Kiarne Treacy: will say, we love this. We really want to be 136 00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:34,140 Kiarne Treacy: on your platform. We're just not ready yet. And I 137 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:38,099 Kiarne Treacy: think what happened recently with regards to what ASIC's been 138 00:07:38,099 --> 00:07:41,250 Kiarne Treacy: saying is that that's not really an excuse anymore. The 139 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:45,210 Kiarne Treacy: we're not ready yet, and the silence is as good 140 00:07:45,210 --> 00:07:49,830 Kiarne Treacy: as greenwashing. And I think that's an important step because 141 00:07:49,830 --> 00:07:54,690 Kiarne Treacy: we cannot have fundamental change while we are accepting silence. 142 00:07:55,620 --> 00:07:58,410 Sean Aylmer: I mean, this then brings things like standard language and 143 00:07:58,410 --> 00:08:01,980 Sean Aylmer: terminology, and it's a nascent industry, so there's a long 144 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:05,309 Sean Aylmer: way to go here. But surely the goal eventually is 145 00:08:05,309 --> 00:08:08,460 Sean Aylmer: to be able to go to the website and actually 146 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:10,470 Sean Aylmer: be able to compare apples and apples at the moment. 147 00:08:10,470 --> 00:08:12,690 Sean Aylmer: I'm sure it's apples and bananas or something rather. 148 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,170 Kiarne Treacy: Yeah. And of course, that was day one. I thought 149 00:08:16,170 --> 00:08:18,210 Kiarne Treacy: I was building a comparison site, that's what I wanted 150 00:08:18,210 --> 00:08:20,369 Kiarne Treacy: to do. But the more we dig into it, the 151 00:08:20,370 --> 00:08:24,270 Kiarne Treacy: more we realize that the data is so fragmented and 152 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:27,600 Kiarne Treacy: decentralized and different. It is actually physically impossible to do 153 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,860 Kiarne Treacy: that right now. Absolutely it's the goal. What I thought 154 00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:33,869 Kiarne Treacy: we would be building, I still think we are, but 155 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:38,370 Kiarne Treacy: I think that the industries are so far behind being 156 00:08:38,370 --> 00:08:42,420 Kiarne Treacy: ready to actually have this like for like information. We're 157 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:47,490 Kiarne Treacy: getting closer. And the ACCC has recently shared some ideas 158 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:51,120 Kiarne Treacy: around what they consider to be greenwashing. And it's helpful 159 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,610 Kiarne Treacy: for us because it means that we got some guidelines 160 00:08:53,610 --> 00:08:56,728 Kiarne Treacy: coming about what is right and wrong, and we've been 161 00:08:56,730 --> 00:08:59,609 Kiarne Treacy: able to build that into the platform. What we've actually 162 00:08:59,609 --> 00:09:02,760 Kiarne Treacy: got coming up, possibly in the next couple of weeks 163 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,280 Kiarne Treacy: to be released is a little tool that as you 164 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,450 Kiarne Treacy: are adding words into, it'll start telling you it'll flag 165 00:09:09,450 --> 00:09:13,380 Kiarne Treacy: if something is an ACCC suggested greenwashing term. So if 166 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:16,139 Kiarne Treacy: you say, this is a much greener alternative, we'll put a 167 00:09:16,139 --> 00:09:17,939 Kiarne Treacy: little flag on there that says you might want to 168 00:09:17,940 --> 00:09:19,920 Kiarne Treacy: check that for example. 169 00:09:20,220 --> 00:09:23,458 Sean Aylmer: Oh, that's interesting. Now, I mean, just quickly, your business 170 00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:25,650 Sean Aylmer: model, the companies pay to be on the tracker. 171 00:09:26,429 --> 00:09:28,470 Kiarne Treacy: They do, yeah. It's an annual membership fee. 172 00:09:28,740 --> 00:09:31,380 Sean Aylmer: Okay. You mentioned that you had a background in marketing 173 00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:35,910 Sean Aylmer: earlier on. It just piqued my interest in terms of 174 00:09:36,270 --> 00:09:40,828 Sean Aylmer: using ESG and green credentials to market products. And there 175 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:43,170 Sean Aylmer: seems to be, certainly in investing world, there's a lot 176 00:09:43,170 --> 00:09:45,689 Sean Aylmer: of that, but even outside the investing world, there seems 177 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:47,910 Sean Aylmer: to be a lot of marketing via ESG or at 178 00:09:47,910 --> 00:09:48,930 Sean Aylmer: least using ESG. 179 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,059 Kiarne Treacy: Yes. And I think it's problematic for so many reasons. 180 00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:56,850 Kiarne Treacy: I'm the biggest advocate of you shouldn't be silent and 181 00:09:56,850 --> 00:10:00,689 Kiarne Treacy: you shouldn't be silenced. But also the use of it 182 00:10:00,690 --> 00:10:02,370 Kiarne Treacy: in marketing. I think one of the big things that 183 00:10:02,370 --> 00:10:05,340 Kiarne Treacy: gets missed in all of the education around what is 184 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:08,969 Kiarne Treacy: greenwashing and what isn't greenwashing, I think is context. For 185 00:10:08,969 --> 00:10:14,578 Kiarne Treacy: me, if you've built a solar farm and that's 10% 186 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,670 Kiarne Treacy: of your energy usage, and that's awesome, that's a good 187 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:20,458 Kiarne Treacy: news story. But you cannot put a picture of a 188 00:10:20,460 --> 00:10:23,070 Kiarne Treacy: solar farm on the front of the pack if people 189 00:10:23,099 --> 00:10:27,989 Kiarne Treacy: feel that what they are buying is 100% made with 190 00:10:28,049 --> 00:10:31,170 Kiarne Treacy: renewable energy. Whereas if you are writing an article and 191 00:10:31,170 --> 00:10:33,240 Kiarne Treacy: you're explaining, " Hey, this is what we've done. We've done 192 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,790 Kiarne Treacy: all this great work, and this is now going to 193 00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:40,020 Kiarne Treacy: contribute 10% renewable energy to our production." That's a different 194 00:10:40,020 --> 00:10:44,639 Kiarne Treacy: story. So I think marketing and communicating about sustainability are 195 00:10:44,639 --> 00:10:46,229 Kiarne Treacy: two very, very different things. 196 00:10:46,589 --> 00:10:50,490 Sean Aylmer: Interesting. Now, I can't let you go Kiarne without mentioning that this week 197 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:54,689 Sean Aylmer: you are launching a podcast with Nova Entertainment. It's called 198 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:56,968 Sean Aylmer: Sustainable Transformation. What's it about? 199 00:10:57,809 --> 00:11:01,559 Kiarne Treacy: So this was born from me having amazing conversations with 200 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,379 Kiarne Treacy: business leaders every day who were talking about their ESG 201 00:11:04,379 --> 00:11:08,040 Kiarne Treacy: transformations and realizing that it seems like it's wasted on 202 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,400 Kiarne Treacy: only me hearing it. And so what I do is 203 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,360 Kiarne Treacy: I'm chatting with different business leaders, sustainability leaders, anybody from 204 00:11:15,660 --> 00:11:18,330 Kiarne Treacy: Bare Footwear, which comes out this week through to Telstra 205 00:11:18,330 --> 00:11:21,929 Kiarne Treacy: or Kohls, and just different organizations and asking them, how 206 00:11:21,929 --> 00:11:24,029 Kiarne Treacy: did you do it? Where did you start? What were 207 00:11:24,029 --> 00:11:27,870 Kiarne Treacy: the challenges? So that other businesses can learn from that 208 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:31,708 Kiarne Treacy: experience? And maybe so that we as consumers can start 209 00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:35,699 Kiarne Treacy: to understand the depth of work that goes into it 210 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:37,799 Kiarne Treacy: and why some businesses make the choices that they make. 211 00:11:38,369 --> 00:11:39,270 Sean Aylmer: Kiarne, good luck with that. And thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 212 00:11:39,270 --> 00:11:43,439 Kiarne Treacy: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. 213 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,640 Sean Aylmer: That was Kiarne Treacy, Chief Executive Officer of Sustainable Choice 214 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,160 Sean Aylmer: Group. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join 215 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,349 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 216 00:11:52,349 --> 00:11:56,338 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 217 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:56,730 Sean Aylmer: your day.