WEBVTT - Cheek Media’s Hannah Ferguson unpacks toxic wellness culture

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, Hello, Welcome to healthy Ish. Thanks for joining us

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<v Speaker 1>on the Body and Soul podcast. I'm your host of

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<v Speaker 1>Felicity Halle, best selling author and CEO of independent news

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<v Speaker 1>platform Cheek Media. Co Hanna Ferguson joins us in the

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<v Speaker 1>studio today to unpack wellness culture, the good bits, the

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<v Speaker 1>bad bits, and everything in between, a topic she writes

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<v Speaker 1>about in her new book Taboo. Now make sure you're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to our sister pod, Extra healthy Ish, where Hannah

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<v Speaker 1>shares her own struggles with vaginismus. She's open and honest

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<v Speaker 1>and that one is worth a listen. You can grab

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<v Speaker 1>it wherever you get your podcasts. Had A Ferguson, Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to healthy Ish.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>It's nice to well have you across the table rather

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<v Speaker 1>than next to me on the plane life.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm almost agreeed. You was an old friend when I

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<v Speaker 3>came in. Once you've been on a flight with someone.

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<v Speaker 3>I think everything's changed.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree, I agree, have great conversation. Yeah, fly, I

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<v Speaker 2>think we fixed everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually absolutely actually no, your book fixes everything seamless, seamless.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to pick up on one of your themes

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<v Speaker 1>in this around self care self improvement. You wrote a line,

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<v Speaker 1>we become slaves to our own self improvement. The reason

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<v Speaker 1>you don't feel well is because you're not investing enough money.

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<v Speaker 2>I just unpack this, Yeah, and that's a lot to unpack, right.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that what I've seen time and time again

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<v Speaker 3>with young women but also women my mum's age, my

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<v Speaker 3>grandma's age, is that a lot of the time we're

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<v Speaker 3>being sold by different companies, by different like beauty, the

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<v Speaker 3>beauty industry, the wellness industry, all of those together like

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<v Speaker 3>collectively things that we're told are going to make us

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<v Speaker 3>feel better fundamentally, like really fix us at our call.

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<v Speaker 3>There's some sort of healing of some sort of community

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<v Speaker 3>in spending to invest in polates classes, cold plunges in

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<v Speaker 3>a bubble.

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<v Speaker 2>Bath, in a candle.

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<v Speaker 3>And obviously there is a lot of science to a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of a lot of elements of the wellness industry.

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<v Speaker 3>But my concern deeply is that it's sold as the

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<v Speaker 3>big fix when actually the reason you feel exhausted, the

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<v Speaker 3>reason you feel burnt out, the reason you have high

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<v Speaker 3>cortisol is not because you haven't had a bubble bath

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<v Speaker 3>this week or done enough yoga classes, but because you're

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<v Speaker 3>doing a lot of unpaid labor in your household, you're

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<v Speaker 3>not being paid enough for the work that you do,

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<v Speaker 3>You're not being treated appropriately in your relationships, and those

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<v Speaker 3>struggles and the cost of building crisis we exist in.

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<v Speaker 3>The political sort of arena we exist in right now

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<v Speaker 3>is probably more to do with the reason you don't

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<v Speaker 3>feel well. The industry you're being sold is the all

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<v Speaker 3>curing fix.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like the wellness industry really boomed when women

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<v Speaker 1>came to a point where they realized they couldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>it all.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, like we tried for so long to have.

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<v Speaker 1>It all, to keep it all up, to have I've

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<v Speaker 1>got to be everything and do everything, but we came

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<v Speaker 1>crumbling down, and then all of a sudden, the wellness

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<v Speaker 1>industry came along and said, we have a fix for this.

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<v Speaker 2>And it costs money. And it costs a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>money too.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think it's also like women were taught to

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<v Speaker 3>have it all, but to have it all in a

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<v Speaker 3>visual public way, like a lot of the women that

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<v Speaker 3>are projecting the habit all mentality, that have cleaners, that

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<v Speaker 3>have cooks, that have a lot of help behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's just not the case for everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a very privileged position. I see, exactly, it's not.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think we're sold this lie that other people

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<v Speaker 3>can do it and look so beautiful and perfect whilst

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<v Speaker 3>it's happening, when in reality we know that's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of time out Instagram feeds feeding us a lie or

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<v Speaker 3>telling us that we need to earn a million dollars

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<v Speaker 3>in order to have that lifestyle.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is just not possible for people.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the wellness industry came along and said, yeah, exactly,

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<v Speaker 3>if you do enough saunas this week, I'm sure that'll

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<v Speaker 3>be fixed.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all those soners are nice.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm a sauna goer. Like I think, it's just

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<v Speaker 3>it's not about saying you don't do these things. It's

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<v Speaker 3>about saying, have the awareness that this isn't going to

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<v Speaker 3>fix deep rooted issues that aren't your fault.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. So how do we dismantle this wellness to be?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I feel like wellness is such a loaded term. Yes, now,

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<v Speaker 1>because I kind of want to feel well, but then

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<v Speaker 1>I also don't want to feel shame and guilt because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not doing everything.

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<v Speaker 2>All of those things.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we need to separate, like what is good,

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<v Speaker 3>the good and healthy and genuinely scientific backed parts of wellness,

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<v Speaker 3>but also how that actually relates to mental health and

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<v Speaker 3>physical health. So, like I'm someone when I'm looking at

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<v Speaker 3>conversations around like self love and self care, trying to

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<v Speaker 3>separate what is a commodity from an industry that's actually

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<v Speaker 3>not engaging in like scientific backed research. What is just

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<v Speaker 3>like a bath bomb versus actually going to the doctor

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<v Speaker 3>or going to see a psychologist regularly and all of

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<v Speaker 3>these things. Like, wellness is a holistic term, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think it has an important role to play, but what

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<v Speaker 3>sits under it now is very fake, very aesthetic, very

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<v Speaker 3>surface level. And my concern is that we're falling into

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<v Speaker 3>the trap of believing it's all equal and it's all

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<v Speaker 3>the same, And I think we need to separate out

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<v Speaker 3>what is actually constructive mental and physical health and what

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<v Speaker 3>is wellness with the bow on top and a hefty

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<v Speaker 3>price tag.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I almost think we need to lose the term

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<v Speaker 1>wellness and just call it go back to well being. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, twenty years ago it was just well being. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there was no wellness, and then suddenly it's almost the

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<v Speaker 1>ness the price tag, yes, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you walk into any store and you actually.

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<v Speaker 3>Have this like sage experience of you know, something smells lovely,

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<v Speaker 3>something looks lovy, and you're like, okay, this pair of slippers,

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<v Speaker 3>how is that now come under like a form of

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<v Speaker 3>self care?

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<v Speaker 2>This certain mat that I have to get? Oh, you

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<v Speaker 2>can buy cars around wellness?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, everything has the world and it's thrown around so

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<v Speaker 3>much that it means nothing anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you navigate or perhaps what's the word protect yourself?

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<v Speaker 1>For when you walk walk into somewhere and something sold

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<v Speaker 1>as wellness versus something genuinely science backed helps your health,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you mentally kind of work out what's legit

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<v Speaker 1>and what's not.

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<v Speaker 3>I honestly think it's about having a hard conversation with

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<v Speaker 3>yourself in the moment. Like I'm someone who go in

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<v Speaker 3>and go This bar of soap does look fantastic, right,

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<v Speaker 3>This candle looks brilliant and it smells lovely.

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<v Speaker 2>But why do I want it?

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<v Speaker 3>Do?

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<v Speaker 2>I want it because it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Lovely and it's gonna look pretty in my home and

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<v Speaker 3>it's gonna make me feel good for a day, and

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<v Speaker 3>I want to get it? Then sure, Like what am

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<v Speaker 3>I willing to pay? But don't expect it to change

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<v Speaker 3>your life? I think my approach is always just like,

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<v Speaker 3>have a reasonable expectation for yourself as to what this

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<v Speaker 3>can do for me and why I'm buying it, interrogating

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<v Speaker 3>the why behind my actions there.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm allowed to have lovely things. I'm allowed to want

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful things. Do you have a candle? Yes? I have

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<v Speaker 2>lovely things.

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<v Speaker 3>I love buying nice things for myself on a whim

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<v Speaker 3>when I'm going on a shopping day with my mum

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<v Speaker 3>or something.

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<v Speaker 2>There's nothing I mean, I love a candle too, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not here.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the point is not to shame the individual,

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<v Speaker 3>it's to attack the structure above it that goes I'm

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<v Speaker 3>going to get this. I'm going to make someone a

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<v Speaker 3>victim of this price tag and sell it to them

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<v Speaker 3>as as as a cure.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's my problem.

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<v Speaker 1>How do we dismantle that big questioning that yeah, a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of minutes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think again, it's about and part of that

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<v Speaker 3>is the individual approach of when you walk into a

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<v Speaker 3>store understanding that often this isn't research driven, this isn't

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<v Speaker 3>data driven, this is something pretty and again, having that

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<v Speaker 3>honest conversation with yourself, I think is the first step

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<v Speaker 3>to dismantling it in your own personal life, because when

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<v Speaker 3>you're buying things and trying to find things that make

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<v Speaker 3>you feel better and they're ultimately not, there needs to

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<v Speaker 3>be a bigger probe, a bigger interrogation as to why

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<v Speaker 3>and actually looking at well, what are the things that

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<v Speaker 3>make me more mentally and physically better healthy? That well

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<v Speaker 3>being peace again. I think it's the personal interrogation that

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<v Speaker 3>ultimately will lead to reduce sales for those faux wellness

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<v Speaker 3>marketing strategies.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you do to feel better? Honestly, go for

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<v Speaker 2>a walk.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a really good set of playlists that are

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<v Speaker 3>defined by mood yeap. I've sort of rookie runner. I

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<v Speaker 3>run five k's and I look like a tomato and

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<v Speaker 3>I have to lie down for an hour afterwards.

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<v Speaker 2>But it makes me feel really rundy. Yeah, I did

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<v Speaker 2>pretty well. I did a half marathon last year, my

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<v Speaker 2>first one. It was really good. Hello, you are not

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<v Speaker 2>a rookie runner if you do a half marathon.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean it was rough, it was tough going, but

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just someone who's like very I love my alone time.

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<v Speaker 3>I love having my own space, and I love just

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<v Speaker 3>setting aside a lot of time during the year to

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<v Speaker 3>like have a weekend away. Like I'm someone who invests

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<v Speaker 3>in bigger pieces of well being rather than smaller pieces

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<v Speaker 3>of wellness.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you do when you go away?

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<v Speaker 3>Read books, turn off my phone for twelve hours. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>actually planning on going a holiday where I put my

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<v Speaker 3>phone in a safe in the hotel for at least

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<v Speaker 3>a week. That's what I want to do in the

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<v Speaker 3>next year at some point as the biggest challenge to myself,

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<v Speaker 3>because my phone is the barrier between me and well being.

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<v Speaker 3>Like that's what I truly believe. And it's also my job.

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<v Speaker 3>My phone is my job in a sense because I

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<v Speaker 3>work on social media. So I think that going for

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<v Speaker 3>a walk, touching grass quite literally, going outside, being in

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<v Speaker 3>places aren't my home. Taking time for myself truly by myself,

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<v Speaker 3>which not everyone has the luxury of at all times,

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<v Speaker 3>are the things I do. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I interviewed Liz Gilbert this week and she actually locks

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<v Speaker 1>her phone in a safe for a day, really and

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<v Speaker 1>we actually laughed about it and it's laughable.

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<v Speaker 3>But you have to actually do that, No, because I

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<v Speaker 3>find myself going I'm gonna put my phone down for

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<v Speaker 3>six hours and then I actually open my phone. When

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<v Speaker 3>I delete like Instagram or something for a day, I

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<v Speaker 3>opened my phone and I forget why I was there.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's how I know that it's so mindless and

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<v Speaker 3>it's so addictive, and it is it's a drug addiction, genuinely.

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<v Speaker 3>But when I justify that it's my work, I struggle

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<v Speaker 3>to break that tether.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think the safe rule. That's my goal for

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five. Okay, we look forward to hearing more

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<v Speaker 2>about that. Thank you for coming on healthy, Thanks having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I do have a lot of time for Hannah. I

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<v Speaker 1>think she has done incredible things in the media space,

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<v Speaker 1>so make sure you grab her book. It is called Taboo.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course.

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<v Speaker 1>She talks about wellness culture, among many other feminist ideas

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<v Speaker 1>and arguments.

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<v Speaker 2>That she has.

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<v Speaker 1>If you did enjoy this tell us you can rate

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<v Speaker 1>and review of this podcast of course, DM me at

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<v Speaker 1>Felicity Halley. If you have any other feedback, head to

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<v Speaker 1>Body and Soul dot com dot you follow us on socials,

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<v Speaker 1>grow our print edition which is out in your local

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<v Speaker 1>Sunday paper. Thanks again for listening, and stay Healthy is