WEBVTT - 'ISIS brides' and broken environment laws

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. Labor

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<v Speaker 1>is trying to land one of its toughest reforms, an

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<v Speaker 1>overhaul of Australia's environmental laws. The Minister Murray Watt says

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to speed up housing and energy project developments,

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<v Speaker 1>make it clear where construction can and can't go ahead,

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<v Speaker 1>and create a federal environment watchdog. After a failed deal

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<v Speaker 1>with the Greens in the last Parliament, Labour is now

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with the coalition. So what will that mean for

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<v Speaker 1>the environment Today Contributing editor at The New Daily, Amy

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<v Speaker 1>Remikus on Labour's wheeling and dealing and the coalition's continued

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<v Speaker 1>identity crisis. It's Saturday, October eleven, Amy, thanks for being here.

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<v Speaker 1>The Environment Minister Murray wa has been trying to rewrite

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<v Speaker 1>Australia's environment laws. So how's he going with that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a really interesting one because the Labor government

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<v Speaker 2>came to power back in twenty twenty two saying that

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<v Speaker 2>it would protect the environment, that it would get this done,

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<v Speaker 2>that we would have an EPA that would be able

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<v Speaker 2>to make decisions for the government. They haven't managed to

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<v Speaker 2>get these laws through, mostly because industry does not like them,

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<v Speaker 2>and so what we have now is a government that

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<v Speaker 2>had almost come to an agreement with the Greens, had

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<v Speaker 2>almost managed in the last parliament to get this signed

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<v Speaker 2>off on. Industry really didn't like this, particularly in Western Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>WA Premier Roger Cook said that he spoke to alban

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<v Speaker 2>Ezi on Tuesday and received an assurance that these laws

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<v Speaker 2>would be on ice. Anthony Albanesi swooped in and said, Nope,

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<v Speaker 2>We're not doing a deal with the Greens. This is

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<v Speaker 2>not what we want. We cannot get this bill through

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<v Speaker 2>the parliament, even though they could.

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<v Speaker 3>We were concerned in relation to some of the elements

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<v Speaker 3>of the nature positive laws and that position very clear.

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<v Speaker 3>Are very pleased to have received assurances from the highest

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<v Speaker 3>levels of government that those laws will not be going

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<v Speaker 3>ahead in their current form this week.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we're back in the new parliament with Labor

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<v Speaker 2>negotiating with the coalition who this time have come to

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<v Speaker 2>the table, something that they didn't do in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>two's parliament under Peter Dutton. Because the mining industry has

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<v Speaker 2>just basically said to them, what are you doing If

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<v Speaker 2>you don't negotiate, Labor will have to negotiate with the

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<v Speaker 2>Greens to get this through, and we would much rather

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<v Speaker 2>have you negotiate with Labor than the Greens, which essentially

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<v Speaker 2>means that Labor is going to be on board with

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<v Speaker 2>the coalition, with the Matt Canavans and the Barnaby Joyces

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes to environmental laws, rather than come up

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<v Speaker 2>with a package that will actually do something and go

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<v Speaker 2>through the Greens.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so what did the coalition want from the bill

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<v Speaker 1>and what was it about what the Greens wanted them

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<v Speaker 1>made walk away?

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<v Speaker 2>The coalition pretty much wants to ensure that the mining

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<v Speaker 2>industry is protected, so they're essentially making sure that this

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<v Speaker 2>bill does not go any further than it absolutely has

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<v Speaker 2>to to give the sheen that we're doing something to

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<v Speaker 2>protect the environment, but they don't want it to actually

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<v Speaker 2>have anything in there that would stop development that the

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<v Speaker 2>mining industry might want. And one of the key things

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<v Speaker 2>in there is the climate trigger, which is what the

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<v Speaker 2>Greens have wanted for some time. And what the climate

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<v Speaker 2>trigger is is essentially if a project's emissions would have

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<v Speaker 2>damage to Australia's emissions target or would be seen to

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<v Speaker 2>be adding to Australia's emissions then that would automatically mean

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<v Speaker 2>that the project could not go ahead. So the Greens

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to set a climate target that would be incorporated

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<v Speaker 2>into all of these laws that every mine and every

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<v Speaker 2>fossil fuel project would be subject to. The industry doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>want anything that will touch this rather kind of cushy

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<v Speaker 2>arrangement that it has with sort of i would say,

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<v Speaker 2>greenwashing of how they're actually getting rid of these omissions,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Liberals do not want the industry to have

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<v Speaker 2>to face a climate trigger, and so essentially they're coming

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<v Speaker 2>up with the bare minimum. The only issue that seems

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<v Speaker 2>to still be a bit contentious is whether the Minister

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<v Speaker 2>will have the final say on a project or whether

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<v Speaker 2>a statutory body like the EPA would have the final say.

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<v Speaker 2>That is still up for debate, and even the environmental

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<v Speaker 2>movement is split on that as well. A lot of

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<v Speaker 2>strong environmentalists want the Minister to maintain the power to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to stop a project because they think that

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<v Speaker 2>community expectations and public opinion does matter, which is something

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<v Speaker 2>that an environmental protection agency that is just looking at

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<v Speaker 2>the data may not take into account. And we're yet

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<v Speaker 2>to see which way the negotiations on that will go.

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<v Speaker 1>When it comes to stopping projects or all these pausing

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<v Speaker 1>projects senate estimates This week exposed a pretty big coal

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia's current laws when it was revealed that the

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<v Speaker 1>Environment Department couldn't legally hit pause and suspected illegal land clearing.

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<v Speaker 1>Can he gets explain what happened?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So this is an exact example of why we

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<v Speaker 2>do need stronger laws and what we're not necessarily looking

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<v Speaker 2>at when it comes to these laws. This is an

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<v Speaker 2>area in central Queensland, a coal mine, the Gemini coal Mine,

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<v Speaker 2>that has been suspected of doing illegal land clearing, where

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<v Speaker 2>conservationalists have said that there is urgent need for protections

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<v Speaker 2>for the environment and for native species.

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<v Speaker 4>If they've been clearing koala habitat without approval already, like how.

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<v Speaker 1>Much is left? So it's an allegation.

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<v Speaker 2>Well no, no, no.

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<v Speaker 1>No true.

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<v Speaker 2>Either the trees still exist that the koalas are living

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<v Speaker 2>in or they don't. They've either been knocked down or

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<v Speaker 2>they still are.

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<v Speaker 1>It's currently an allegation, mister mcquin.

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<v Speaker 2>There are examples of it from the air where the

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<v Speaker 2>Council has been able to take photographs and basically say

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<v Speaker 2>that an area has been cleared that there doesn't look

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<v Speaker 2>like there has been permissioned for but nobody can tell

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<v Speaker 2>them to stop because there's nothing in the legislation that

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<v Speaker 2>says that they can legally tell them to stop. And Queensland,

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<v Speaker 2>which has land clearing laws, has a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>loopholes in those laws. It's still considered by conservationalists to

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<v Speaker 2>be the deforestation capital of Australia. And one of the

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<v Speaker 2>reasons why is that there is no sort of federal

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<v Speaker 2>oversight to say, bang, you have to stop this project.

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<v Speaker 1>So as it stands, is the reform that the coalition

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<v Speaker 1>and the government are now negotiating, is that going to

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<v Speaker 1>create those kind of stop work powers and is that

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<v Speaker 1>something that the Coalition would support in particular.

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<v Speaker 2>Not at the moment, it is something that the Greens want,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Greens are pushing very hard to try and

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<v Speaker 2>ensure that all of these loopholes become public and so

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<v Speaker 2>that people can see what is not in the legislation

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<v Speaker 2>that needs to be So if they can't get the

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<v Speaker 2>climate trigger, if they can't have the government negotiate with them,

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<v Speaker 2>the hope is that by exposing these cases more widely

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<v Speaker 2>that people will actually put pressure on labor to include it.

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<v Speaker 2>But if the Coalition want to make industry happy, then

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<v Speaker 2>the Coalition have to vote for these laws if labor

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<v Speaker 2>include it. So there is some power for movement there,

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<v Speaker 2>which is only going to force a bit more of

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<v Speaker 2>a split in the Nationals and the Liberal Party because

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<v Speaker 2>the Nationals really do not want this stop work trigger

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<v Speaker 2>going on. So it's one of those really weird four

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<v Speaker 2>D chess dances that go on with legislation at time,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that it's one that's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>very interesting to keep an eye on.

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<v Speaker 1>So despite all of that, there is broad consensus amongst

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<v Speaker 1>the parties that Australia's environmental protection laws need to be

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<v Speaker 1>over the way that it's going at the moment. Are

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<v Speaker 1>you confident the government is going to deliver new laws

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<v Speaker 1>that will work for the environment.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, I'm not confident that these laws will work

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<v Speaker 2>for the environment. And Murray what said in Senate estimates

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<v Speaker 2>that Labour's job was to balance the needs of business

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<v Speaker 2>with the environment, which pretty much says everything you need

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<v Speaker 2>to know about the direction that these laws are going in.

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<v Speaker 2>We know from history that if you're trying to balance

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<v Speaker 2>business and industry with protecting the environment. The environment tends

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<v Speaker 2>to lose every.

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<v Speaker 1>Time coming up. Andrew Hasty has gone from the front bench,

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<v Speaker 1>but his supporters are still shaping the coalition's tactics. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this was the first week that the Liberals haven't had

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<v Speaker 1>Andrew Hasty on the front bench changed things for the party.

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<v Speaker 2>Susan Lee has been working very hard to try and

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<v Speaker 2>stop people talking about Andrew Hasty and the leadership woes,

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<v Speaker 2>and she's tried to switch focus to what Labor is doing.

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<v Speaker 2>So she wanted to focus on the TRIPLEO optus failure

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<v Speaker 2>in parliament this week and that was her main focus

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<v Speaker 2>for most of the parliament.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you, missus speaking. My question is to the Minister

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<v Speaker 5>for Communications. One hundred and forty seven days ago the

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<v Speaker 5>minister was sworn into her portfolio and yet she still

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<v Speaker 5>self identifies as a new minister being you is no

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<v Speaker 5>excuse Australian's dialing triple zero in an emergency cannot wait

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<v Speaker 5>for you to learn the minister isn't a crossover.

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<v Speaker 2>However, on the other side of that equation you had

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Hasty, who was largely silent this week, but he

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<v Speaker 2>had his own pratorian guard out there basically advancing his cause.

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<v Speaker 2>So you had senators like Jacinta Price, who was going

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<v Speaker 2>out there talking about these terrible leaks that have come

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<v Speaker 2>out about Andrew Hasty and how that needs stop.

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<v Speaker 5>Look, I have a lot of respect for Andrew. I

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<v Speaker 5>think that he has certainly shown his man of principle

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<v Speaker 5>and of conviction.

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<v Speaker 2>You had other people coming out and talking about how

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<v Speaker 2>he was a man of integrity and how these issues

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<v Speaker 2>that were being raised in the party room came from,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a place of him supporting the base and

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<v Speaker 2>him wanting to broaden what the coalition was actually standing for.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, he's done great work for our party. But you know,

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<v Speaker 6>he's made his decision. I don't think, and he's not

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<v Speaker 6>indicated that there's any any other intent behind it except

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<v Speaker 6>for not being able to voice his opinions on immigration.

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<v Speaker 6>I can feel that for him.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you had people who are on I would

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<v Speaker 2>say Andrew Hasty's side of the political coin, like Michaulia

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<v Speaker 2>Cash pushing this Isis bride scandal.

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<v Speaker 4>The last time I checked, I would have thought the

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<v Speaker 4>Prime Minister would actually be all over this issue in

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<v Speaker 4>terms of the return of Isis brides and their children

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<v Speaker 4>to Australia and would want to be upfront with the

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<v Speaker 4>Australian people in relation to the measures that the government

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<v Speaker 4>is taking to keep Australian safe. So again I'm asking

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<v Speaker 4>you about it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it wasn't just Michaulia Cash talking about these women

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<v Speaker 1>and children who have returned to Australia from Syria. James Patterson,

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<v Speaker 1>who's feeling and your Hasty's Portfolio of Home Affairs for

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<v Speaker 1>the time being was talking about it too. So what

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<v Speaker 1>is the coalition's line here?

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<v Speaker 2>The actual attack line from James Patterson and Michalia Cash.

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<v Speaker 2>And for people who haven't followed James Patterson's career, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a new South Wales Liberal senator who is a security

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<v Speaker 2>hawk and while he hasn't been actively involved in the

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<v Speaker 2>front lines in pushing the coalition's security and border's message,

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<v Speaker 2>he's been heavily involved in the background in crafting these

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<v Speaker 2>sorts of lines and strategies. His line is that Australia

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<v Speaker 2>should have put temporary stops on these women and children's

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<v Speaker 2>return to Australia.

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<v Speaker 7>The Parliament has given the Executive Government of Australia the

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<v Speaker 7>power to apply for a temporary exclusion order to prevent

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<v Speaker 7>an Australian citizen who's travel overseas to associate with the

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<v Speaker 7>terrorist organization from returning to our country. Very clearly, the

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<v Speaker 7>government did not use these powers in this instance, and

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<v Speaker 7>they should explain why.

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<v Speaker 2>He is saying that that is something a trigger the

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<v Speaker 2>government could have pulled and didn't pull and therefore Australians

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<v Speaker 2>may be at risk. There is no suggestion Australians are

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<v Speaker 2>at risk, as we know from what has been said

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<v Speaker 2>in Parliament that the authorities were aware that the women

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<v Speaker 2>and children managed to make their own way out of

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<v Speaker 2>their camp to a third party country where they have

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<v Speaker 2>received the documents to return to Australia as citizens, as

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<v Speaker 2>is their right. They have returned to Australia. They are

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<v Speaker 2>being monitored. We are told they are under investigation as

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<v Speaker 2>to whether or not they have broken any Australian laws

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<v Speaker 2>while they have been in Syria, and there is no

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<v Speaker 2>suggestion that if that's proven, that they will not face

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<v Speaker 2>consquences in the Australian judicial system. It's essentially people like

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<v Speaker 2>James Pattison and Michaalia Cash and Andrew Hasty trying to

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<v Speaker 2>return the Coalition to its natural safe place in Australian

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<v Speaker 2>policy of being stronger on borders, stronger on national security,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're trying really hard to try to say Labor

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.960
<v Speaker 2>is weak on this. But I think that for the

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 2>most part this hasn't really taken off, except for in

0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Conservative media and for what has happened in Parliament, because

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that most people have sort of moved on

0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>from where we were under the Tony Abbot years, and

0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 2>in fact even under Scott Morrison. People are a little

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>bit more aware of what citizens' rights are and I

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>think they have more trust in the security agencies than

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.600
<v Speaker 2>maybe people like James Patterson give them credit for.

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.520
<v Speaker 1>What does it say to you, Amy that Susan Lee

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 1>was trying to focus on OPTUS, Well, a lot of

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.320
<v Speaker 1>a party wanted to talk about women coming home from

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Syria instead.

0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the fact that Susan Lee did not

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 2>want to until she absolutely had to speaks volumes about

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.960
<v Speaker 2>the split in the coalition party room that is continuing.

0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.800
<v Speaker 2>She really, really really wants the party to focus on

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.240
<v Speaker 2>what she says is making life better for every day Australian.

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 2>She wants the party to go back to cost of living,

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to small government, to tax reform, to ensuring that small

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.560
<v Speaker 2>businesses are protected. She wants them to focus on those

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 2>everyday issues. There is a very large portion of the

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Coalition party room, and you can include the Nationals in

0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 2>this who want more of the culture wars rather than

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.840
<v Speaker 2>actually talking about individual domestic lives. That is the fight

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>that is going on in the Coalition at the moment,

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 2>and I think that this week, where you saw Susan

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.200
<v Speaker 2>Lee really try to hold the line and keep it

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.920
<v Speaker 2>on domestic issues, she lost that battle. So you can

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 2>tell how much authority Susan Lee actually has over the

0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 2>coalition by what happened this week. But you can also

0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 2>tell that those who are agitating for a return to

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the right wing led coalition that we saw under Scott Morrison,

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>that we saw under Peter Dutton, and we saw the

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 2>beginnings of under Howard, that they may not have as

0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 2>much power as they used to, but they certainly know

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 2>how to use the media space to get whatever it

0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 2>is they feel they're missing out on.

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Amy, thank you so much for your time. Thank you,

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 1>thanks for listening to seven AM this week. Before we go,

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.160
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0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.400
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