Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never
Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. I first
Speaker 1: heard about today's guest when he was featured in a
Speaker 1: major international film called A Prayer Before Dawn. The movie
Speaker 1: just blew me away. How he survived and the fact
Speaker 1: he's here talk to us today speaks volumes for the
Speaker 1: human spirit. Today's guest is certainly no angel. He's made
Speaker 1: mistakes throughout his life. He's served time in prison in
Speaker 1: the UK, survived the horror of being incarcerated in two
Speaker 1: of Thailand's most notorious prisons. He's going to talk to
Speaker 1: us today about his life and experiences. Takes a lot
Speaker 1: to shock me these days, but today's guest has a
Speaker 1: story of survival and redemption and it's hard to comprehend
Speaker 1: what he's been through. Today's guest is Englishman Billy Moore.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get him on the podcast for
Speaker 1: a very long time and I'm excited about today. Billy Moore,
Speaker 1: Welcome to I Catch Killers.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I've been wanting to get you on this podcast for
Speaker 1: a long time. I first became interested in your story
Speaker 1: when I saw the movie about your life, A Prayer
Speaker 1: before Dawn, and I got to say, it really blew
Speaker 1: me away.
Speaker 2: It did me, to be fair, because when it was lad,
Speaker 2: when it was it was quite surreal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine that you'd be looking at it
Speaker 1: and there was some intense stuff there. But did you
Speaker 1: at any stage surprise you're still here? There must have
Speaker 1: been times when you think I'm just not going to
Speaker 1: make it through.
Speaker 2: There's plenty of times times when I force I just
Speaker 2: wanted to give up. Alsorely ended my shelf you know,
Speaker 2: there was a point when I was in prison in
Speaker 2: shang Mai and I was on death row because of
Speaker 2: you know, me be eighty and the consequences had created
Speaker 2: yesterday movie from normal location. And the only place that
Speaker 2: adapt me is like the shells on the fifth floor,
Speaker 2: which were health and exephal and people who were shaven
Speaker 2: over to eighty five years. And it was like that
Speaker 2: would probably be most esperate time in prison.
Speaker 1: I could imagine how how low that would think, just
Speaker 1: take you to prison, because I think this is sort
Speaker 1: of broad a time, I was doing some prep for
Speaker 1: the podcast and came across this that this is December
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and this is how you described
Speaker 1: your first night in chang My prison. I was told
Speaker 1: to sleep in the far corner, and in the corner
Speaker 1: was a body that was just lying there with a
Speaker 1: sheet over his face. Tell us about that.
Speaker 2: I remember being in the court not understanding what was
Speaker 2: getting said to me. But I was taking to gang
Speaker 2: My Senseral prison at the time, going through these gates,
Speaker 2: and it was its own experience, you know, in itself.
Speaker 2: Because the bus was just crammed with people. No one
Speaker 2: could speak English. I just kept quiet. I had loads
Speaker 2: of fear and anxiety going on, but I didn't I
Speaker 2: didn't have I had to show like courage. I didn't
Speaker 2: want anyone to share. It was scared. I was masked
Speaker 2: into this shell after you know, the initially instroductional to
Speaker 2: you know, the prison rules, you know. On the floor
Speaker 2: was like it was it was like his saer arms
Speaker 2: and legs and there was no space on the floor
Speaker 2: and I was looking around the thing based the beds.
Speaker 2: It was. It was sort of short. You know, you
Speaker 2: will next back when I come here. They sleeping on
Speaker 2: the floor. You see next to each for there there's
Speaker 2: no way, there's no sheets, there's no batteries, there's no
Speaker 2: nun you know, when you're getting directed into the corner
Speaker 2: of this room, and you know, remember sweeping next to
Speaker 2: this guy you had the sheet over his face, over
Speaker 2: his body, you know, and another guy, a lady boy
Speaker 2: called Stan and he shut in. I was just, you know,
Speaker 2: is this is this too real? They're going to move
Speaker 2: this body or what? And when he asked the lady
Speaker 2: boy who spoke to me here broken English, you went,
Speaker 2: it's okay, no problems, you know, say bank Holody will
Speaker 2: move them on Monday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can, I can understand. I right. I raise
Speaker 1: that first up because I think if people want to
Speaker 1: understand that world that you found yourself in, that was
Speaker 1: such a stark example of it that they are you
Speaker 1: sleeping beside the dead body for a couple of days.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Thailand prison. Let's talk about your your life
Speaker 1: the start, because there's always a beckstory. You don't just
Speaker 1: wake up one day and find yourself in a type prison.
Speaker 1: But where were you born? In Liverpool?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What was here? What was your childhood like?
Speaker 2: It was one of the feeling really source of a loan,
Speaker 2: even though there was I was in a big family.
Speaker 2: There was Shakespeare's and I was the oldest and five
Speaker 2: younger hivens be sad. He was drinking alcohol every single day.
Speaker 2: My mum was waking every hour. God send you know
Speaker 2: the time, pay the bills. You know. It was very
Speaker 2: volatile and violence, and it was just full of feeling.
Speaker 2: All he ever wanted to do was be acknowledged by me, dad,
Speaker 2: because he was my hero. He was me, your own
Speaker 2: model you no matter what it did, you know, I
Speaker 2: never got any any attention. I didn't feel there was
Speaker 2: any acceptance. I didn't understand, you know, the concept of
Speaker 2: love and intimacy. The only sam we ever felt any
Speaker 2: intimacy was when my mom used to put the nick
Speaker 2: going through our hair and the su the evening before
Speaker 2: stew on a Monday. So I was quite quite lonely
Speaker 2: and isolated. I went with Skew, very insecure, so I
Speaker 2: didn't speak what I found myself in a lot of
Speaker 2: trouble and I didn't understand why. I think it was
Speaker 2: getting a tension then all the wrong places, especially in Skew.
Speaker 2: You know, I was getting back. Then we got the cane,
Speaker 2: We got whacked with stick by the seasies, you know.
Speaker 2: And it was for me that was on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: So I was getting I was getting beat up and
Speaker 2: stew by the seas and then I was rolling home
Speaker 2: and I was getting the beats up at home backside,
Speaker 2: and then on the way home, I was getting beat
Speaker 2: up by kids, you know, bullies. And he often laid
Speaker 2: take no wonder did these contributing fastest that led to
Speaker 2: me just like calligating and reacting, and he scathed them,
Speaker 2: you know, through drug use.
Speaker 1: When you talk about a start like that, billy like
Speaker 1: its uh yeah, you are a product of your environment
Speaker 1: and whether we like it, like it or not, we
Speaker 1: carry a lot of ship from our childhood and it
Speaker 1: carries it carries through our life in the way you
Speaker 1: describe that when you're looking for love, you're looking for recognition,
Speaker 1: you're not getting it. You're seeing violence. Your old man's hitting,
Speaker 1: hitting the grog and you know it sounds like a
Speaker 1: violent type of type of character as a kid. They're
Speaker 1: your formative years, no wonder you feel, feel confused, and
Speaker 1: you look back and I have a lot of blakes
Speaker 1: on this podcast, and I know a lot of people
Speaker 1: friends that you have gone off track and you look
Speaker 1: back at their childhood and you think, jeez, how how
Speaker 1: would have I gone if that was my upbringing? So
Speaker 1: it takes a judgment out of it, but it does
Speaker 1: shape your those formative years, does shape the direction your
Speaker 1: head off in life, don't they?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: In all.
Speaker 2: In all, honestly, when I was the younger, I just
Speaker 2: want us to be different from me, Dad, because you know,
Speaker 2: from a lot of division. You know, I see me
Speaker 2: Mum's certifire, to see them smashing the elk shore. You know,
Speaker 2: we were getting leasim attacked, just unpretectable. That was that
Speaker 2: was the worst. You know when Lee, you know, we'd
Speaker 2: walk up and down behind you and he'd hated band
Speaker 2: in the corner with your hands on your head, m
Speaker 2: and you just be waiting for that smart And it
Speaker 2: wasn't the fact that I wasn't I didn't any fade
Speaker 2: the post. It was when it was going to happen,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like just do it? You
Speaker 2: know what I mean, it's you know that was It
Speaker 2: was just horrible feeling and by emotionally breaking zan every
Speaker 2: nice go to bed. And I felt to myself, you know,
Speaker 2: if it's in a boxing club, it could be that
Speaker 2: claim to be a boxer. I've never seen him actually
Speaker 2: no box unless it was all me or my family,
Speaker 2: will me mom befourse he'd acknowledged me so during the
Speaker 2: boxing club, and I wanted to be in the army show.
Speaker 2: It was in the the kid Jetts. It wasn't on
Speaker 2: the calf to go down the path of like crime
Speaker 2: and addiction. That wasn't a SHAWNA wanted. It wasn't planing batter.
Speaker 1: From from what I'm taking taking from that, even with
Speaker 1: that environment, you still had aspirations to make something of yourself,
Speaker 1: whether that was getting respect and acceptance through boxing or
Speaker 1: or joining the army and being part of the tribe
Speaker 1: people that you felt part of a group.
Speaker 2: What that was the problem. That was the problem that
Speaker 2: he made because I was suffering from an early age,
Speaker 2: you know, from all the abuse, the physical abuse. That
Speaker 2: talked with me to who have the environments for western
Speaker 2: But when I was in the ca death, you know,
Speaker 2: I was like a target for people because of the
Speaker 2: way I acted, you know, so I wasn't fitting in there.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: The only place that did really fit in with the
Speaker 2: box shol because it was it was a solace the board.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a team kind of game. You went playing
Speaker 2: football and others as to get the ball pass to
Speaker 2: you or you know, it was like you have to
Speaker 2: face and you have to win, and if you lost,
Speaker 2: it was because you didn't saying, you know that capture
Speaker 2: show I felt better doing that.
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, they Billy, and I see
Speaker 1: the difference between your team sports and boxing, and I
Speaker 1: understand the boxing world and you see people in boxing,
Speaker 1: and you're quite right. You can be part of a group,
Speaker 1: the training group, but it all comes down to the individual.
Speaker 1: So you're responsible for your own own actions, and yeah,
Speaker 1: looking after yourself. There's no one else in there with you.
Speaker 1: So did you find any piece through boxing or in
Speaker 1: the cadet so or were you still still angry?
Speaker 2: It was more it was an gay for me, the
Speaker 2: saying and the discipline and you know, physical ensurance that
Speaker 2: it was jam competing in the sports, you know. But
Speaker 2: at the same time we did started to acknowledge me.
Speaker 2: I'll take you a little bit of notice, but I
Speaker 2: think by that time it was too late. I think
Speaker 2: the damage was already done.
Speaker 1: You'd move past through the years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got through points. I was like, what,
Speaker 2: fourteen years old, and you know they had loads of
Speaker 2: you know, musen as he shows, there's loads of lace, rebellion, malbo,
Speaker 2: loads of blaming. If it wasn't for you, you know,
Speaker 2: as a young seens. Yeah, I was boxing, you know,
Speaker 2: I says. And my dad didn't see them as intimidating
Speaker 2: as you did when I was younger. But I still
Speaker 2: had that fear. He still all that fear over me.
Speaker 1: I do understand the hold, stupid. I also understand where
Speaker 1: you say it wasn't the pain of being punched or
Speaker 1: hit or flogged by your old man. It was just
Speaker 1: anticipating when it's gonna happen. And yeah, you're probably saying,
Speaker 1: you're saying like you're outgrownding by the age of four name,
Speaker 1: but it's still in your psyche, isn't it. What the upbringing?
Speaker 1: It's funny, funny transition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is just like you know it is to
Speaker 2: be natured and loved them, you know, guided through your life.
Speaker 2: You know what it is to be beating you know,
Speaker 2: batter that's gonna be fair thought. That happened in everyone's family.
Speaker 3: And whether he's the piece with it, you know, young
Speaker 3: kids that you will you know, I realized that it
Speaker 3: didn't it was any difference at my houseo to theirs,
Speaker 3: and he often wanted to be, you know, living with
Speaker 3: them and their family, you know, even that I was adopted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is all a mistake. That's my family, not
Speaker 1: this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When when did you start getting into trouble with the law?
Speaker 1: When when did that start to play it?
Speaker 2: I was probably like about fifteen, sixteen years old, heaving
Speaker 2: towards sixteen years old, and you know, I was boxing
Speaker 2: for a couple of years. I didn't want to be
Speaker 2: her own. So five shows standing on the street corners
Speaker 2: with young lads. I was heading in the right direction.
Speaker 2: It was quite well behaved. But then yeah, just trying
Speaker 2: to face in with a different crowd, and then drugs
Speaker 2: come on the scene. You know when I faced it
Speaker 2: was dealing cars. You know the thrill there's three or
Speaker 2: four years going out and enjoyed riding. You know. Then
Speaker 2: you know that you can make a little bit of
Speaker 2: money for sholling wheels, seams in carsteadios. You know, by
Speaker 2: getting money, you know what you know, you start spend
Speaker 2: it on a bit of drink and that's a gay
Speaker 2: weight dog, you know, then a little bit of cannabis,
Speaker 2: and then you're so balling two other things. So to
Speaker 2: me it was quite rapid. I realized that when it
Speaker 2: starts to say glug, you have very child with experiences
Speaker 2: kind of melted away from the bit briefly.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, and you describe a path that has been
Speaker 1: followed so often by so many people. You know, you
Speaker 1: start dabbling in a little bit of crime, you get
Speaker 1: caught up in the wrong crowd, have alcohol. You haven't
Speaker 1: got the sense to know what your limited is when
Speaker 1: you're a kid, and then you start cannabis and then
Speaker 1: rolls into something something more serious. Did you at any
Speaker 1: point in those those times, you know, I'm thinking you're
Speaker 1: fifteen around that age sixteen, did you ever try and
Speaker 1: check yourself and think I am heading down the wrong
Speaker 1: path here? Did that ever cross your mind?
Speaker 2: You know what, it's even perfectly honest, moll, I suppose
Speaker 2: would have had that guidence. It was not like I
Speaker 2: think what happened was that I got sixteen years old,
Speaker 2: I was on these drugs. You know, it was all fun,
Speaker 2: it was all games, but it was losing fights. I'm
Speaker 2: sure I was losing the willingness, and you know that
Speaker 2: the joy, the enjoyment was a bit short of like declining.
Speaker 2: And then I think what really really God was when
Speaker 2: he had the fight was then based off when I
Speaker 2: was sixteen years old.
Speaker 1: A straight far a straight farce. You got a nice
Speaker 1: little Evander Hollofield.
Speaker 2: Either. Yeah, it wasn't actually based off it was shown
Speaker 2: back hornbook. It kind of didn't heal. So the SV
Speaker 2: movie again a couple of weeks later.
Speaker 1: Wait, wait did that happen? Was that in the ring
Speaker 1: or was that in the straight?
Speaker 2: That was a three fights that was all the strong
Speaker 2: petty as a young kid. It was an argument with
Speaker 2: an older lad who was like short of like yeah,
Speaker 2: sort of boulsom and everyone was afraid of him, and
Speaker 2: he's used to be mad than me and his adular
Speaker 2: bully and everyone. And I'm not taking this. I must
Speaker 2: you know, if you've got a staffish something of your
Speaker 2: fall for any of us and given as good as
Speaker 2: it gore. Yeah, unfortunately, you know me a bit and
Speaker 2: then me shelf esteem, me confidence, the way I look,
Speaker 2: the way I perceived himself with girls and stuff.
Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about that, but yeah, if you
Speaker 1: had a badly damage you, you're a little bit sensitive
Speaker 1: about your looks and everything that's going on at that
Speaker 1: that age. So yeah, I can understand that would ply
Speaker 1: on your mind.
Speaker 2: It's totally he was. I was just distructed more then.
Speaker 1: Well did you did you do time in boys homes?
Speaker 1: Do you have no a detention centers?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I don't like when I was Chevy seeing
Speaker 2: me firsteens, I was gonna care all for a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks at sixteen to commit a time and then okay,
Speaker 2: I kind of like that to be honest. It sounds daisy,
Speaker 2: but it was a It was a mixed care all
Speaker 2: with girls and lads. They would all just functional, liking shelf,
Speaker 2: a little mad, crazy gang of unwell kids to believe.
Speaker 1: So the way the way you're describing the billy, I
Speaker 1: can say it would be fun, but they'd have to
Speaker 1: keep a tight rain on that because it could get
Speaker 1: out of control too in a bunch of crew like
Speaker 1: you described.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, meet ye meet and girls and then you know,
Speaker 2: you know, you full of test all. You know, you're
Speaker 2: young and you know you love a little bit of
Speaker 2: a revelent. It was I was. I was arrested and
Speaker 2: on Liverpool showed me access who you know, the girls
Speaker 2: to avatime. I love the socials and all that. So
Speaker 2: it was just like it was. It was it was
Speaker 2: getting objected by a different kind of car. And I
Speaker 2: didn't want to go for bail. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: young and you know Baylor's you know where they.
Speaker 1: You let you go, You're you're happy where you were.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to get bail. We'll go back home.
Speaker 2: I'm happy the fel Steve, but obviously he bailed me
Speaker 2: because it would be first defense. And then it wasn't
Speaker 2: long after that I was in juvenile hear Masste's Young
Speaker 2: Defenders Institute.
Speaker 1: How did you cope with that? Was it daunting for
Speaker 1: you or was it almost like it was never the Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was very frightened.
Speaker 2: It was because I've got to a point ended. I
Speaker 2: was addicted to the past drugs, the A six days,
Speaker 2: never seeing the transition from canabis and you know, snow
Speaker 2: balled into that massively. And I didn't understand the withdra
Speaker 2: passed taking Opius until that they go into this Young
Speaker 2: Defenders and Shoes. I was there for the week. I
Speaker 2: was horrible with the facet week and I never slept.
Speaker 1: You're you're coming off the gate whale, isn't that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, off the gear. I'm just we're gonna celerible states,
Speaker 2: couldn't shrip, but couldn't stop paying move and I was
Speaker 2: I was vomiting, had crampsh it was it was. It
Speaker 2: was an end of experience study. I remember vividly. And
Speaker 2: the worst pass about it was like she was lying
Speaker 2: it all night, you know, for hours. It's just like
Speaker 2: wide away and and having to having soon no they
Speaker 2: I'm going to be doing it the next night, and
Speaker 2: the nice after that, and then the nice after that
Speaker 2: without any street and then we went by and I
Speaker 2: went to the course like you got to remember your
Speaker 2: fair Simon in a proper prison. And then you gave
Speaker 2: me bail. He said. It was at the course and
Speaker 2: there was a fan of fifteen pounds which he paid,
Speaker 2: bought me a drink and said, you know what's wrong?
Speaker 2: Did you? And I couldn't really say. I was just
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't want to didn't have any idea
Speaker 2: any you know, wrongly, I don't know, I didn't have
Speaker 2: any understanding what you.
Speaker 1: Just said there. It's so like it said, because you're old.
Speaker 1: Man's a product of his environment too, and he's probably
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing, but it's probably the
Speaker 1: worst thing he could do. And yeah, I'll talk to
Speaker 1: him and take you across the across to the pub.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well I was let's try. I wasn't. That
Speaker 2: wasn't that big drinking and never i've been, you know,
Speaker 2: being shown. That's being quite fond of it, you know,
Speaker 2: sultably as Fiday. But you know it was really I
Speaker 2: didn't least fit intentially the drinking crowd. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: had to drink him to drinking cool share at least. No,
Speaker 2: he's just watching me.
Speaker 1: What was the hook that heroin? What heroin is such
Speaker 1: a like it destroys so many lives And like, I
Speaker 1: hear so many people talk about you once they've gone
Speaker 1: down down that path. What was the hook for you
Speaker 1: with heroin?
Speaker 2: And what it gave me? It was like, yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you how it started. A meta Gale found on
Speaker 2: his three calls. She must have been about twety years old.
Speaker 2: She was a shell of a shawl on the streets
Speaker 2: and you know, you know, can you can you get
Speaker 2: us any rowin? I was like, yeah, never even knew
Speaker 2: what it was. Never they did it well, I never
Speaker 2: knew what it was, never experienced day. I never knew
Speaker 2: where to get it from. Should have Shaya and the
Speaker 2: glads who were now who used to buy cannabis shops
Speaker 2: happened to walk by. He's come over and she's like,
Speaker 2: can you get this gage? You litter get gave But
Speaker 2: he put me into the right direction. You know. I
Speaker 2: was trying to do good seas on it and pressed
Speaker 2: him and that was that when I drop into his
Speaker 2: flask nothing what they needed. I was watching them smoking
Speaker 2: and yeah, I was on the knee like couturing down
Speaker 2: smoking and on this film and was looking on, you know,
Speaker 2: strip me, and that's what I did, after just the
Speaker 2: joints the name with only holy this. You know, you'll
Speaker 2: enjoy this, And I thought he's coming on to me,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So it's like curiosity. And
Speaker 2: I had a little a little girl and that was vomiting,
Speaker 2: you know, you know, but after that he feeling of
Speaker 2: like security, like a blanket over it. Strange and so
Speaker 2: you know, if you took me back to away place,
Speaker 2: you still had a bit of error. And we smoked
Speaker 2: it the next day as fast as you get the feel,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't like vomiting. And then I leave it
Speaker 2: and then I called me a little way and then
Speaker 2: you know, come back to it a week later though,
Speaker 2: two weeks, and then it became habit forming.
Speaker 1: I'm always curious, and I asked people with with the
Speaker 1: heroin addiction, like, at any point when when you're you've
Speaker 1: just described the point now to where where it's got you,
Speaker 1: you're chasing it, At any point do you have a
Speaker 1: clarity of mind to step back and think what am
Speaker 1: I doing? Why am I going down this path? Or
Speaker 1: is that those thoughts downing even cross your mind when
Speaker 1: you're addicted.
Speaker 2: Man, it's so far back now. I think at the
Speaker 2: time it would be you know, you're young, You've got
Speaker 2: a native arrogance. You know, you think you can live
Speaker 2: forever at an early age, you know, bigst chair. I
Speaker 2: never had that awareness, but that understanding. I've got some
Speaker 2: point where the face time I've done that in a
Speaker 2: prison that was forced on me. I had no choice
Speaker 2: to do it. War Black and Blue will never do
Speaker 2: this again.
Speaker 1: This is it.
Speaker 2: I've had a loaf. I can't go through that. I
Speaker 2: hated it. And the minute I got out, every father
Speaker 2: in me being with streaming, get more, you'll be okay.
Speaker 2: Difference and it's like that eyes you know, you know,
Speaker 2: repeat the same mishaking, expected different results, and that's what
Speaker 2: I used. I'll do it, It'll be different, and it wasn't.
Speaker 2: It was over the game. And I found shall repeating
Speaker 2: that pattern of like refusially year after year after year,
Speaker 2: month after month, week after week.
Speaker 1: I must stop them, just keep grabbing you back in
Speaker 1: time in prison. So this is your sixteen seventeen, You're
Speaker 1: addicted to drugs. You've done time in juvenile detention centers.
Speaker 1: When did you hit the big house? When did you
Speaker 1: hit the adult prisons and what sort of offenses were
Speaker 1: they for.
Speaker 2: I was twenty one years old. I was three. You know,
Speaker 2: you've got to be an adult at twenty one in
Speaker 2: the UK to get it in the big hosh was
Speaker 2: the crabs were all druglyvated shop lifting. I was, I was,
Speaker 2: I was a petty animal.
Speaker 1: The crime was to support the drug habits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't really matter whether it was lobbing another
Speaker 2: drug dealer or robbing a lot of drug as if
Speaker 2: or you know, robbing me family or mean, it was
Speaker 2: a means to an end race. I didn't know. I
Speaker 2: did not want to feel the way I felt right,
Speaker 2: do anything to get it.
Speaker 1: I've had other people talk about going down the path
Speaker 1: not this similar to what you've described and juvenile detention center.
Speaker 1: Everything's exciting, We're all going to be gangsters, We're all
Speaker 1: going to do this. Everything's yeah, we've got the future
Speaker 1: ahead of us. You said that sort of arrogance of youth.
Speaker 1: But I've had people describe to me when they hit
Speaker 1: the big house, the adult PRIs and they look around
Speaker 1: and they see blakes in their forties and fifties of
Speaker 1: the spent yeah, half their life in prison and it's
Speaker 1: not that they realize it's not as glamorous. Did that
Speaker 1: cross your mind at twenty one? Going in there and
Speaker 1: a young young, a.
Speaker 2: Young defenders person is very fast, lafishly quick, you know,
Speaker 2: you know you don't be as all quick as far
Speaker 2: you get to you know, the big olch and it
Speaker 2: slows down all all the cons of shield out a
Speaker 2: bit more mellow.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I'm like, let him out on the rounds because all
Speaker 2: that energy, and I remember it's a little old man,
Speaker 2: as there's an old man and he always I love
Speaker 2: to talk about this because he's probably wont the same
Speaker 2: age as me enw But he was fanning next he
Speaker 2: was found the next right. So it was on the
Speaker 2: prison land and that led my arms over it over
Speaker 2: the the railings, looking as I it's the lower level,
Speaker 2: and I was looking at him and a little saying.
Speaker 2: He had a pair of saying he's on a pair
Speaker 2: of blue jeans, and he went, you know what's gone?
Speaker 2: You know we're not getting any younger and life doesn't
Speaker 2: get any easy, you know. Yeah, all right, lads, look
Speaker 2: at you? You know what I mean? That was my
Speaker 2: answer to you, How can you tell me anything? You're ear,
Speaker 2: But conversation has resonated over over over the ears of
Speaker 2: my mind. His family to the prison. That she just
Speaker 2: resonated really always like popped into the head that fellow Chad.
Speaker 2: That's yea. He was vising, you know, or doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like I'm getting any younger. And it wasn't getting any
Speaker 2: easier either.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes sometimes a very powerful message and a simple message,
Speaker 1: isn't it And the comment that makes you reflect.
Speaker 2: Man sor he showed me that there's a different way
Speaker 2: of life offered me a little bit of hope. I
Speaker 2: wasn't really willing to listen at the time.
Speaker 1: No, well you saying that, and I read someway correct
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, But you're saying like you still
Speaker 1: had a rebellus streak even when you were in custody.
Speaker 1: You did a protest on the roof until you got
Speaker 1: sun strike took us through that. What was that all about?
Speaker 2: Couldn't face the reality of life no matter the way
Speaker 2: there was, you know, I didn't want to waken them
Speaker 2: after shame Monday and day in and out. It was
Speaker 2: just all say was audible. There was no interventions as
Speaker 2: you get today. It was just a job short that
Speaker 2: you were banged up for twenty three hours. It was hot.
Speaker 2: It was to day of the year through toowdy, and
Speaker 2: I thought, this is gott to end this iss. You've
Speaker 2: got to stop. I'm taking medication. I'm taking drugs that
Speaker 2: I would never even see. Anyone who's got tablets, what addie?
Speaker 2: I don't know take them anyway? You know, did you
Speaker 2: feel any diftuff from what you're feeling now? Don't just
Speaker 2: find them? I mean as you won't give us a cent.
Speaker 2: So meet meet me mad at getting cloud of these medication.
Speaker 2: Did with this medication and putting a bit of weights
Speaker 2: on them, and it was like even really negative. It
Speaker 2: was audible. And I members standing on the yar. The
Speaker 2: someone's beating army leftless on our pictures and one of
Speaker 2: the young lads for shame, Look you have a space
Speaker 2: off where shaped Obviously, let's just stay on the yar.
Speaker 2: When they called it in after the allergy, just stay
Speaker 2: out because the weather's way. They were only going to
Speaker 2: go back into those those shelves and like wet boxes.
Speaker 2: So we all rather rebel and then we're not going in.
Speaker 2: So when he called the game, we all say it out.
Speaker 2: That's when the gates shots. They knew there was a problem.
Speaker 2: Then a couple of hours went by and then you know,
Speaker 2: the decisions to climb on the route was made by
Speaker 2: another young guy. People were throwing the beats out the
Speaker 2: window and we made a makeshift throw. We had to swatch.
Speaker 2: Gave me up this training pipe. And the minute he
Speaker 2: got on that route and the yells of approval that
Speaker 2: you know after for them and I bang him. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: I have on a bit of that. So he was
Speaker 2: getting all those attention and then it was my tain
Speaker 2: and like fourteen it was back up. Was like the
Speaker 2: tad patents to get up. And I remember climber up
Speaker 2: and it was half way up this this make shift
Speaker 2: row and I remember there in this this pressure office
Speaker 2: poll missed on much. That's his real name, Joe. You'll
Speaker 2: never You'll never get up there. You fast and kindly
Speaker 2: maybe like jolter bait and straighten and and I landed
Speaker 2: back down on the conquery and the landing on the
Speaker 2: back side, and I felt so shame and show embarrassed,
Speaker 2: wat to the ground for ork swallow me and not
Speaker 2: giving up, not giving up and try to do it again.
Speaker 2: I was the oldest one that was the fastestest met
Speaker 2: up at the time, yells approval. I have the hands
Speaker 2: in the early rockey bell bawl. Yeah, and the minute
Speaker 2: the clappers to night and it was about the next
Speaker 2: patient getting up. I looked over the over the edge
Speaker 2: of the the roofs I see all these shape pleasure offices,
Speaker 2: and of course that's yea when it comes down and
Speaker 2: I am going to get a good beating off the ease.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was short lived. The excitements and the thrills.
Speaker 1: It's funny how you describe it, because I can see
Speaker 1: how you're driven to that. This is your your moment
Speaker 1: all of a sudden. Yeah, you're the focus of attention.
Speaker 1: You're enjoying yourself. You've broken up the monotony and the
Speaker 1: way you go. Yeah, it was Was it two thousand
Speaker 1: and five when you decided to head over the Thailand?
Speaker 1: What was your mindset there? Why white Thailand? And were
Speaker 1: you clean? You're out of prison obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that prison experience that I climbed on the roof,
Speaker 2: that was like that significant change in my legs. It
Speaker 2: was I was put us to delegating units. Then from
Speaker 2: from that more much comfortable. Eight stolid months, policy confinements,
Speaker 2: stiff and prisions. Yeah, they around, yeah, loads of times
Speaker 2: a team, loads of times that he flat you know,
Speaker 2: writing letters in your family, polishing them. I wouldn't do
Speaker 2: it again. I wouldn't name, it wouldn't get out, and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't use.
Speaker 1: It, you know.
Speaker 2: And I remember to get the opportunity to speak to
Speaker 2: me more because of something that had happened on another
Speaker 2: sherogation unit. I couldn't even forma senses for me mom
Speaker 2: as to the phone, I was like, really hate because
Speaker 2: it's been taken away from lobal location and putting short. See,
Speaker 2: there was no drugs in me shaw, so I was
Speaker 2: quite drow The wall of feelings were quite vibrance and laid,
Speaker 2: so any anything, I was very shesitive. So when he
Speaker 2: mostly like she tostly, oh my god, you okay, love,
Speaker 2: what's going on to you about your billy? Look? Change
Speaker 2: your life? Get help past that? It hit me really
Speaker 2: hard and I couldn't answer her on the phone because
Speaker 2: there was cheap perision officers standing next to me and
Speaker 2: they were quite big, and I was like after trough
Speaker 2: at the same time with the fours if I blink
Speaker 2: tears ago to falls down on my face because there
Speaker 2: was water in my eyes. So it just crated me
Speaker 2: seeing me, won't she look, I know you're hate and
Speaker 2: s just as for hell and I she said, put
Speaker 2: the phones on and went back and broke to on
Speaker 2: and Michelle. And that's when I wrote the letter to
Speaker 2: a place your office. Sherry came up suggested the Dove rehabilitation.
Speaker 2: You know, he had scheftered it because anything at that time,
Speaker 2: but the truth, I mean shure. I went into this
Speaker 2: rehabilitation in two thousand and four and that's when I
Speaker 2: was introduced to recovery to the group called the Coltics Anonymous.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a fou. It was an addictive analitate.
Speaker 2: The personality one was too many in a thousand was nevertheless,
Speaker 2: you know, I've got a little bit of awareness of all.
Speaker 2: Your operator is now a navigated through light. You know,
Speaker 2: if a pick up the face, one maples the damage.
Speaker 2: So it was like, you know, you have to remain
Speaker 2: abstinence and after the samis quite floors I don't as
Speaker 2: well as as as a flaws, but he said, look,
Speaker 2: you only have to stop using just to today. So okay,
Speaker 2: I can do that just today and a day led
Speaker 2: to it. It's a week, some weeks, letter months and
Speaker 2: months letter years, and you know they a plan, you know,
Speaker 2: with a whole new way of living. I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, young has a lessons in a man's body
Speaker 2: at this time, because what had happened is I used
Speaker 2: drugs from the earlias and started me emotional development. So
Speaker 2: by the time I was hasty and had been it's
Speaker 2: used to distruggy, I was still afting like a seventeen
Speaker 2: year old, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might makes sense when you describe it that way.
Speaker 2: If not younger. So you know, Thailand, you know, was
Speaker 2: messaged to me by a friend who just come back.
Speaker 2: You know, we've been in recovery for five years of
Speaker 2: relocated to a place called Bristol, which was like it
Speaker 2: was five hours away from Liverpool, and he was just
Speaker 2: groushat and he was telling me about his experience in Thailand.
Speaker 2: I've never been abroad. I've only ever been on a
Speaker 2: sweat box to different prisons in the UK and never
Speaker 2: actually traveled anyway. Never had a passport, a bank account,
Speaker 2: of phone, they had money, you know, the things that
Speaker 2: people take for glances today. So we don't excite him,
Speaker 2: and he said, why don't you try to shave up
Speaker 2: and you know we'll go. We'll go to Thailand and
Speaker 2: he showed me this idea of a beautiful place of visit.
Speaker 2: You know, we'll go backpack and he was a bit
Speaker 2: of an adventure there and I thought, okay, a field,
Speaker 2: I'd be shaped with this guy because he's five years
Speaker 2: creen and to me he was like put him on
Speaker 2: a pedestal. Wow. So I dare to save the bit
Speaker 2: of money, got myself the pass board all that sizes
Speaker 2: back past airports and that was it. We were gone,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm a world class card carrying pleasure.
Speaker 2: She had, you knows, meselfing to tight paer of genius
Speaker 2: just for the feel, because it wasn't usual drug.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: I was tired of life. I stopped smoking, I was
Speaker 2: training regular and I was boxing again and quite face
Speaker 2: and I was young, what hasy one?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Banding me life?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: When I got off this plane in Bangkok and there
Speaker 2: was November, I remember because he had left. I'd left him.
Speaker 2: He throw airports in London and the weather was like
Speaker 2: vision and the tempionship was low. I've been hit with
Speaker 2: this ways I've never exterious that he'd like that, you know,
Speaker 2: and I thought, wow, this is exciting, and that was that,
Speaker 2: you know, it was great for a few few most
Speaker 2: out there, and so they went downhill.
Speaker 1: How were you surviving over there, Billy? When you landed?
Speaker 2: When I was living on a budget, to be fair,
Speaker 2: because it didn't drink. We were sharing water and we
Speaker 2: were sharing like the apartments. She'd saved enough money to
Speaker 2: get by, you know, we merely living beyond that means
Speaker 2: we couldn't. It was a shoe drink and we were
Speaker 2: walking everywhere. We were getting local bushes, the local scenes,
Speaker 2: and it was like the sham. I enjoyed it, you know,
Speaker 2: he enjoyed the ex traveling the way they do. It
Speaker 2: was like then, you know, when it became I wanted
Speaker 2: to stay. After the femur, I'd met a Gales. She
Speaker 2: spoke English. She she was our Japanese off American and
Speaker 2: better than a meeting, you know, wedding bells were blowing
Speaker 2: off in the air because she was playing the chatters
Speaker 2: and she was she was giving me attention, and I thought, wow,
Speaker 2: you know, if she's not I'm not used to this,
Speaker 2: you know, especially if I'm not a woman that's good
Speaker 2: looking as this one. I thought, I want to stay
Speaker 2: here and I'll be for them as they look, i'm
Speaker 2: going back. We need to go back in less than
Speaker 2: a week. And I went, look, I'm staying. So what
Speaker 2: are you going to do or you want to survive?
Speaker 2: I said, I think of shut show started doing this
Speaker 2: big news a box of competing. Then I thought they
Speaker 2: had job as a TC and English as a foreign
Speaker 2: language because he had a travel shows. That's some kind
Speaker 2: of income. Then you know, then I got a job
Speaker 2: on a Rambo four. We're for shore vestors alone, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just break that down. So we've got the story
Speaker 1: this far. You've been over there, you went over there
Speaker 1: with your mate three months, you liked it, you met
Speaker 1: a woman that you liked. You thought, I'm going to
Speaker 1: stay here. Why why get why go back? You got
Speaker 1: employment teaching my title fighting my tie, which is the
Speaker 1: next sport over in in Thailand, and teaching English. And
Speaker 1: then I think this was in in your book and
Speaker 1: talking about on set for Rainback four with Sylvester Saloon.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting deviation in your life. Talk talk to
Speaker 1: us about that.
Speaker 2: But what I think was I was in a GB
Speaker 2: called the Royal Verital selling Shang Mai and it was there.
Speaker 2: It was a hotels, yam you go there, just use it.
Speaker 2: It was and I was a guy in there on
Speaker 2: the run machine and I recognized places stain. Is he
Speaker 2: a boxer? Maybe that's where it's seen them show started
Speaker 2: it's got away and said that maybe what do you
Speaker 2: flo You should have film meious you're a boxer. You went, no, no,
Speaker 2: you should have laughed it. I said, oh, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: your fad. What have you been in these correlations? Which
Speaker 2: is a popular program that's being on go USU in
Speaker 2: the UK, And I never, I never don't watch that
Speaker 2: sort so okay, yeah, that's that's nice. Just what are
Speaker 2: you doing? Early old fellow for music or you know ramble,
Speaker 2: you know, but what you mentioned rulers stology because he
Speaker 2: was my you know, no rock rock? Yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I love rocking. He said yeah, he said, you know,
Speaker 2: I've got a roll in that, and so that's got
Speaker 2: for you in it, And that's that was Yeah. I
Speaker 2: didn't think much of it. A couple of days later
Speaker 2: I'd tell you I was in the same gym, and
Speaker 2: then you know, the casting Ayson came in looking for
Speaker 2: all you know, non tie so westerns and it was
Speaker 2: a shovision there the asters will be late to have
Speaker 2: a be an extra, be a part of a party
Speaker 2: in this movie. She chumped at the chance, gave it
Speaker 2: all the details. He chucked me. I's each other, photographs,
Speaker 2: we name and data, bath and everything else that you needed.
Speaker 2: And then I'd say about a week later, it gets
Speaker 2: a phone call with this this American actions, Hey billy,
Speaker 2: smile America. You know will be love what we had.
Speaker 2: We love what we saw in the gym, and you
Speaker 2: know we'd like to see you know, we'd like to
Speaker 2: get you on board. Would you would you come in?
Speaker 2: And we need you to play so vestless the long
Speaker 2: standing and it's all come on whose day? Because I
Speaker 2: told everyone, I mean I told everyone that you couldn't
Speaker 2: getting anything at the times they're excited. I was telling
Speaker 2: everyone for someone's someone's having a joke here. What yeah, man,
Speaker 2: we we we love what you're doing. And found it
Speaker 2: very convinced them to be fatal. Was it? Man, I've
Speaker 2: got play along here. He meets at the Royal Local.
Speaker 2: Don't tell her five a m. I was thinking that's
Speaker 2: a bit early, you know, five am. That was okay,
Speaker 2: So I got off the fallout. But I was like,
Speaker 2: nice to be a black or just don't know me.
Speaker 2: I went to the Royal Local do tell a five.
Speaker 2: I was there to be earlier, and then there was
Speaker 2: a little mini bus waiting for her that was off today.
Speaker 2: It's location close to the Baby's border in a Shangai.
Speaker 2: And that's why I start to the this movie show
Speaker 2: with Stone. That's him.
Speaker 1: You made him, you got to meet him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was speaking to him. I wasted fans and
Speaker 2: I was gonna tailor he games with what faith he haven't?
Speaker 2: Just like that.
Speaker 1: Damn for a sake, Billy, You've grown up watching Rocky
Speaker 1: and Sylvester Salone as your hero like so many other
Speaker 1: other people in the from the Rocky films, And here
Speaker 1: you are in the trailer working on a film with
Speaker 1: him playing the stunt double and he comes to watch
Speaker 1: a fight. How cool would have that been?
Speaker 2: That's amazing? But what he added benefit, he added bonus
Speaker 2: to meet meeting him the way he did was his man.
Speaker 2: As yet it's called Kevin King Templeton Races. Now. Kevin
Speaker 2: King is a sculture. He's from Littletool, He's a shelf
Speaker 2: made a millionaire and he lived in Krotte and I
Speaker 2: had a football shopper and you know you've on littlepool.
Speaker 2: Yeah he's so started at toll and what you hear,
Speaker 2: but you do hear them as you do. Said, you
Speaker 2: know I managed alone. I was like your mess and
Speaker 2: I'm a pretty badly kidnapped like and it's all get
Speaker 2: a picture of the get him, get him and get
Speaker 2: him to get a picture of merola, so we said.
Speaker 2: And the father name, I said, I was Unuro. Once
Speaker 2: those crow to him, he's had had the throats on
Speaker 2: this sin where he said, I need a volunteer man,
Speaker 2: I want to rich somebody's pipe out, I said, had
Speaker 2: he had there hands on his throats for this she
Speaker 2: and to set up the lighting on the camera, shadow
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and you know it was just
Speaker 2: like shining and getting me thrown ripped out by show
Speaker 2: this that the loan wow by ramble. But after that
Speaker 2: that shot, I said, I said to Kevin, said, low,
Speaker 2: I don't care who you are. There's no man on
Speaker 2: the planet that right now. Another man's went pipe out
Speaker 2: with his beads and he went rambo can right, Uh,
Speaker 2: you haven't got an answer for that. It was just yes,
Speaker 2: but that was making edible amazing. Berry is the way
Speaker 2: to them for a few months. That's some really wonderful people,
Speaker 2: some colorful characters. Life was kind of useful at the time.
Speaker 2: I was waking in the fuel, I was boxing over night,
Speaker 2: a litt bit of an income. I was getting paid
Speaker 2: to this year filming, which you would have tumped them onto.
Speaker 1: Really, so it was a good time in your life
Speaker 1: for a good period. And you're thinking, you're pointing in
Speaker 1: a good direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was cleaning. I was in covery. I was
Speaker 2: doing all the my things goal to meeting. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: sure I was shod.
Speaker 1: And when you when you say you were boxing, were
Speaker 1: you're doing moy thile? Was it a straight boxing or
Speaker 1: you're into the mutie.
Speaker 2: That that and that was yeah, I was. I was
Speaker 2: fighting in silent with the size.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fight on every night, there isn't it.
Speaker 1: Then with the.
Speaker 2: Sometimes clear and I yeah, yeah, well it didn't really
Speaker 2: matter to me.
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Speaker 1: x plus on Apple Podcast Today. So where that go
Speaker 1: bad then, Billy? Where do you sort of slip off
Speaker 1: the good direction?
Speaker 2: That's great? I feel when the film and ended and
Speaker 2: everyone went badge, you know, I mess a lot of gear.
Speaker 2: I was emotionally. Is she sure I couldn't deal with
Speaker 2: the jackson my father? She had another gay yeah, so
Speaker 2: as actually and other fells. You know me, I was
Speaker 2: blud she was shy when I was driving. She says
Speaker 2: she loved me. I said, have loved there, but Ja,
Speaker 2: she says she loved this jere like that thoughts me
Speaker 2: and you and I same on the UNA and I
Speaker 2: couldn't get me head dried and she couldn't wait again
Speaker 2: A rather fact that I put my chef that I
Speaker 2: was very confused and and and we have to part company.
Speaker 2: But it broke me. It broke me very dead, and
Speaker 2: I couldn't deal without felt I couldn't cope. I stopped
Speaker 2: going to meetings. I didn't want to tell people about
Speaker 2: where it was, adding me life shame and my father
Speaker 2: shove that E barged the lincome boat water went to
Speaker 2: their bro you know. And then I remember looking at
Speaker 2: the name the Spirits and having this little fight inside me, saying,
Speaker 2: you know, one I'll take away the pain. Just watch someone.
Speaker 2: And I was arguing with my sling with dogs and
Speaker 2: I lost that battle. You know, the fuckers kicked in
Speaker 2: gives them. They didn't have brandy at the time, struggle
Speaker 2: with it's a show. Wish you and remember it then,
Speaker 2: and we shocked off with strolls are the pain? Kind
Speaker 2: of the space hevaporated. I picked up a phone books
Speaker 2: with under the English guy. I said, look, brings some
Speaker 2: drugs to this this bar he came with from Shum
Speaker 2: come down and I said, no, look, we need to
Speaker 2: get from cocaine. So who do you do we asked, Well,
Speaker 2: that's the lazy boys. Yeah, got in thrun to this
Speaker 2: lazy boy was smoking up down the streets. Cocaine. No cocaine,
Speaker 2: yeah ba, so what's that? We don't know what didn't
Speaker 2: even editing never edded it? Yeah by okay, okay, yeah bye.
Speaker 2: Got on the back of the bike went to this
Speaker 2: backseats apartments. I mean this. This guy went into this
Speaker 2: room shut down on the stubble bed with these sides ship.
Speaker 2: There was about four or five sides on the floor
Speaker 2: and the smoke filled where he cares. Not one of
Speaker 2: them looked at us. While this lady boy went upstairs
Speaker 2: somewhere to buy these these Yaba pills. She came on
Speaker 2: with these pink tablets and what's this? What did we do?
Speaker 2: I don't want to see her the tablet and no,
Speaker 2: the mean I want shut And then she put her
Speaker 2: on the foil and put it on the foil and
Speaker 2: what's this tablet evaporates into into a bowl of oil
Speaker 2: and it remained the ahead of him the head and
Speaker 2: goes like a black hockey. And that's what happened with
Speaker 2: this pair of her from a pink tablet into a
Speaker 2: black oily liquid. I think, wow. The smokers cuver off
Speaker 2: it smoke that then you this Wow, I was like this,
Speaker 2: this feeling was so amazing at the time, it was,
Speaker 2: it was quick. It's shown every and away I wanted
Speaker 2: was more than easily.
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's life going good. You've been hurting a
Speaker 1: love situation you're you're looking to numb the pine, and
Speaker 1: you fell back in their own habits. It's as said
Speaker 1: in as simple as that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, after three inch of maintaining an after gi
Speaker 2: you know, I ate that old hard with drugs again,
Speaker 2: you know, but this time in a different county, taking
Speaker 2: addiction to a different level. Feeling I was untouchable in
Speaker 2: this truncy because the door of corruption.
Speaker 1: So you got the taste of it. You're thinking, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get damn for it if I
Speaker 1: get caught a pirvate cops off or whatever.
Speaker 2: The white if if you had the money you know,
Speaker 2: that paid them off for it. Was that Asst Hude
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, to fund the abbot that
Speaker 2: had developed the kind of like get some some more
Speaker 2: income because we've lost the job, but go with the kids.
Speaker 2: A skull because of that didn't turn up. But it
Speaker 2: was not doing well I should have been doing it
Speaker 2: was not I'm not pleasant the boxing. I wasn't really
Speaker 2: engaging because it was losing fight because he had no
Speaker 2: fitness in me. So we had no shows that in
Speaker 2: con show was offered part of the drugs by this
Speaker 2: high former time police officers to make money and from
Speaker 2: the abbey. You know, the temptation they was too much
Speaker 2: to refuse. And I took the bag of pills and
Speaker 2: started to sell them to the foreigners and nightclubs. I
Speaker 2: was the old best customer. I was usual load of.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here laughing, laughing, Billy, and I shouldn't be
Speaker 1: laughing because it's just said, isn't it. You're just saying, Hey,
Speaker 1: you're talking here and there looking back at your life,
Speaker 1: and you're just you're watching it just fall apart.
Speaker 2: Actually it's just like every and it's just like it
Speaker 2: seems like a good idea at the time, but in reality,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just destruction, ammihilation of your life. And
Speaker 2: that's that's that's what happened. You know, tasty three years
Speaker 2: old at this time. You know what I mean is
Speaker 2: just falling apart, become badly massy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, we might will take a break here, Billy.
Speaker 1: We'll end part one and we'll come back come back
Speaker 1: for part two. I've really enjoyed getting a sense of
Speaker 1: who you are and the way that you're going to
Speaker 1: reflect on you know, how do I get to this point?
Speaker 1: At that point? But when we get back for part two.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about when it did go bad,
Speaker 1: when you got locked up in Thailand, your time in prison,
Speaker 1: and how you survive that, because it is about survival
Speaker 1: in there and what you're doing with your life now
Speaker 1: and how you've turned it round. But it's fascinating at
Speaker 1: this stage, and I'm telling people listening here, wait, you
Speaker 1: hear some of the things that went down in the prison,
Speaker 1: that stuff that you don't forget. So we'll be back
Speaker 1: shortly for a part two.