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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never

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Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. I first

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Speaker 1: heard about today's guest when he was featured in a

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Speaker 1: major international film called A Prayer Before Dawn. The movie

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Speaker 1: just blew me away. How he survived and the fact

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Speaker 1: he's here talk to us today speaks volumes for the

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Speaker 1: human spirit. Today's guest is certainly no angel. He's made

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Speaker 1: mistakes throughout his life. He's served time in prison in

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Speaker 1: the UK, survived the horror of being incarcerated in two

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Speaker 1: of Thailand's most notorious prisons. He's going to talk to

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Speaker 1: us today about his life and experiences. Takes a lot

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Speaker 1: to shock me these days, but today's guest has a

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Speaker 1: story of survival and redemption and it's hard to comprehend

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Speaker 1: what he's been through. Today's guest is Englishman Billy Moore.

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to get him on the podcast for

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Speaker 1: a very long time and I'm excited about today. Billy Moore,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I've been wanting to get you on this podcast for

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Speaker 1: a long time. I first became interested in your story

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Speaker 1: when I saw the movie about your life, A Prayer

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Speaker 1: before Dawn, and I got to say, it really blew

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Speaker 1: me away.

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Speaker 2: It did me, to be fair, because when it was lad,

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Speaker 2: when it was it was quite surreal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine that you'd be looking at it

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Speaker 1: and there was some intense stuff there. But did you

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Speaker 1: at any stage surprise you're still here? There must have

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Speaker 1: been times when you think I'm just not going to

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Speaker 1: make it through.

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Speaker 2: There's plenty of times times when I force I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to give up. Alsorely ended my shelf you know,

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Speaker 2: there was a point when I was in prison in

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Speaker 2: shang Mai and I was on death row because of

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Speaker 2: you know, me be eighty and the consequences had created

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Speaker 2: yesterday movie from normal location. And the only place that

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Speaker 2: adapt me is like the shells on the fifth floor,

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Speaker 2: which were health and exephal and people who were shaven

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Speaker 2: over to eighty five years. And it was like that

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Speaker 2: would probably be most esperate time in prison.

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Speaker 1: I could imagine how how low that would think, just

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Speaker 1: take you to prison, because I think this is sort

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Speaker 1: of broad a time, I was doing some prep for

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Speaker 1: the podcast and came across this that this is December

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and this is how you described

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Speaker 1: your first night in chang My prison. I was told

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Speaker 1: to sleep in the far corner, and in the corner

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Speaker 1: was a body that was just lying there with a

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Speaker 1: sheet over his face. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: I remember being in the court not understanding what was

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Speaker 2: getting said to me. But I was taking to gang

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Speaker 2: My Senseral prison at the time, going through these gates,

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Speaker 2: and it was its own experience, you know, in itself.

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Speaker 2: Because the bus was just crammed with people. No one

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Speaker 2: could speak English. I just kept quiet. I had loads

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Speaker 2: of fear and anxiety going on, but I didn't I

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Speaker 2: didn't have I had to show like courage. I didn't

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Speaker 2: want anyone to share. It was scared. I was masked

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Speaker 2: into this shell after you know, the initially instroductional to

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Speaker 2: you know, the prison rules, you know. On the floor

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Speaker 2: was like it was it was like his saer arms

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Speaker 2: and legs and there was no space on the floor

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Speaker 2: and I was looking around the thing based the beds.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was sort of short. You know, you

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Speaker 2: will next back when I come here. They sleeping on

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Speaker 2: the floor. You see next to each for there there's

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Speaker 2: no way, there's no sheets, there's no batteries, there's no

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Speaker 2: nun you know, when you're getting directed into the corner

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Speaker 2: of this room, and you know, remember sweeping next to

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Speaker 2: this guy you had the sheet over his face, over

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Speaker 2: his body, you know, and another guy, a lady boy

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Speaker 2: called Stan and he shut in. I was just, you know,

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Speaker 2: is this is this too real? They're going to move

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Speaker 2: this body or what? And when he asked the lady

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Speaker 2: boy who spoke to me here broken English, you went,

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Speaker 2: it's okay, no problems, you know, say bank Holody will

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Speaker 2: move them on Monday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can, I can understand. I right. I raise

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Speaker 1: that first up because I think if people want to

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Speaker 1: understand that world that you found yourself in, that was

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Speaker 1: such a stark example of it that they are you

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Speaker 1: sleeping beside the dead body for a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Thailand prison. Let's talk about your your life

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Speaker 1: the start, because there's always a beckstory. You don't just

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Speaker 1: wake up one day and find yourself in a type prison.

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Speaker 1: But where were you born? In Liverpool?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What was here? What was your childhood like?

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Speaker 2: It was one of the feeling really source of a loan,

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Speaker 2: even though there was I was in a big family.

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Speaker 2: There was Shakespeare's and I was the oldest and five

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Speaker 2: younger hivens be sad. He was drinking alcohol every single day.

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Speaker 2: My mum was waking every hour. God send you know

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Speaker 2: the time, pay the bills. You know. It was very

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Speaker 2: volatile and violence, and it was just full of feeling.

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Speaker 2: All he ever wanted to do was be acknowledged by me, dad,

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Speaker 2: because he was my hero. He was me, your own

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Speaker 2: model you no matter what it did, you know, I

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Speaker 2: never got any any attention. I didn't feel there was

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Speaker 2: any acceptance. I didn't understand, you know, the concept of

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Speaker 2: love and intimacy. The only sam we ever felt any

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Speaker 2: intimacy was when my mom used to put the nick

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Speaker 2: going through our hair and the su the evening before

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Speaker 2: stew on a Monday. So I was quite quite lonely

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Speaker 2: and isolated. I went with Skew, very insecure, so I

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Speaker 2: didn't speak what I found myself in a lot of

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Speaker 2: trouble and I didn't understand why. I think it was

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Speaker 2: getting a tension then all the wrong places, especially in Skew.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was getting back. Then we got the cane,

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Speaker 2: We got whacked with stick by the seasies, you know.

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Speaker 2: And it was for me that was on a regular basis.

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Speaker 2: So I was getting I was getting beat up and

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Speaker 2: stew by the seas and then I was rolling home

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Speaker 2: and I was getting the beats up at home backside,

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Speaker 2: and then on the way home, I was getting beat

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Speaker 2: up by kids, you know, bullies. And he often laid

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Speaker 2: take no wonder did these contributing fastest that led to

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Speaker 2: me just like calligating and reacting, and he scathed them,

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Speaker 2: you know, through drug use.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about a start like that, billy like

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Speaker 1: its uh yeah, you are a product of your environment

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Speaker 1: and whether we like it, like it or not, we

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Speaker 1: carry a lot of ship from our childhood and it

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Speaker 1: carries it carries through our life in the way you

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Speaker 1: describe that when you're looking for love, you're looking for recognition,

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Speaker 1: you're not getting it. You're seeing violence. Your old man's hitting,

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Speaker 1: hitting the grog and you know it sounds like a

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Speaker 1: violent type of type of character as a kid. They're

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Speaker 1: your formative years, no wonder you feel, feel confused, and

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Speaker 1: you look back and I have a lot of blakes

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, and I know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: friends that you have gone off track and you look

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Speaker 1: back at their childhood and you think, jeez, how how

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Speaker 1: would have I gone if that was my upbringing? So

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Speaker 1: it takes a judgment out of it, but it does

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Speaker 1: shape your those formative years, does shape the direction your

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Speaker 1: head off in life, don't they?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: In all.

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Speaker 2: In all, honestly, when I was the younger, I just

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Speaker 2: want us to be different from me, Dad, because you know,

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Speaker 2: from a lot of division. You know, I see me

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Speaker 2: Mum's certifire, to see them smashing the elk shore. You know,

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Speaker 2: we were getting leasim attacked, just unpretectable. That was that

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Speaker 2: was the worst. You know when Lee, you know, we'd

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Speaker 2: walk up and down behind you and he'd hated band

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Speaker 2: in the corner with your hands on your head, m

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Speaker 2: and you just be waiting for that smart And it

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Speaker 2: wasn't the fact that I wasn't I didn't any fade

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Speaker 2: the post. It was when it was going to happen,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like just do it? You

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Speaker 2: know what I mean, it's you know that was It

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Speaker 2: was just horrible feeling and by emotionally breaking zan every

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Speaker 2: nice go to bed. And I felt to myself, you know,

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Speaker 2: if it's in a boxing club, it could be that

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Speaker 2: claim to be a boxer. I've never seen him actually

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Speaker 2: no box unless it was all me or my family,

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Speaker 2: will me mom befourse he'd acknowledged me so during the

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Speaker 2: boxing club, and I wanted to be in the army show.

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Speaker 2: It was in the the kid Jetts. It wasn't on

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Speaker 2: the calf to go down the path of like crime

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Speaker 2: and addiction. That wasn't a SHAWNA wanted. It wasn't planing batter.

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Speaker 1: From from what I'm taking taking from that, even with

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Speaker 1: that environment, you still had aspirations to make something of yourself,

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Speaker 1: whether that was getting respect and acceptance through boxing or

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Speaker 1: or joining the army and being part of the tribe

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Speaker 1: people that you felt part of a group.

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Speaker 2: What that was the problem. That was the problem that

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Speaker 2: he made because I was suffering from an early age,

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Speaker 2: you know, from all the abuse, the physical abuse. That

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Speaker 2: talked with me to who have the environments for western

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Speaker 2: But when I was in the ca death, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was like a target for people because of the

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Speaker 2: way I acted, you know, so I wasn't fitting in there.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: The only place that did really fit in with the

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Speaker 2: box shol because it was it was a solace the board.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't a team kind of game. You went playing

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Speaker 2: football and others as to get the ball pass to

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Speaker 2: you or you know, it was like you have to

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Speaker 2: face and you have to win, and if you lost,

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Speaker 2: it was because you didn't saying, you know that capture

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Speaker 2: show I felt better doing that.

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Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, they Billy, and I see

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Speaker 1: the difference between your team sports and boxing, and I

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Speaker 1: understand the boxing world and you see people in boxing,

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Speaker 1: and you're quite right. You can be part of a group,

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Speaker 1: the training group, but it all comes down to the individual.

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Speaker 1: So you're responsible for your own own actions, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking after yourself. There's no one else in there with you.

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Speaker 1: So did you find any piece through boxing or in

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Speaker 1: the cadet so or were you still still angry?

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Speaker 2: It was more it was an gay for me, the

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Speaker 2: saying and the discipline and you know, physical ensurance that

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Speaker 2: it was jam competing in the sports, you know. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time we did started to acknowledge me.

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Speaker 2: I'll take you a little bit of notice, but I

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Speaker 2: think by that time it was too late. I think

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Speaker 2: the damage was already done.

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Speaker 1: You'd move past through the years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got through points. I was like, what,

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Speaker 2: fourteen years old, and you know they had loads of

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Speaker 2: you know, musen as he shows, there's loads of lace, rebellion, malbo,

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Speaker 2: loads of blaming. If it wasn't for you, you know,

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Speaker 2: as a young seens. Yeah, I was boxing, you know,

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Speaker 2: I says. And my dad didn't see them as intimidating

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Speaker 2: as you did when I was younger. But I still

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Speaker 2: had that fear. He still all that fear over me.

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Speaker 1: I do understand the hold, stupid. I also understand where

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Speaker 1: you say it wasn't the pain of being punched or

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Speaker 1: hit or flogged by your old man. It was just

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Speaker 1: anticipating when it's gonna happen. And yeah, you're probably saying,

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Speaker 1: you're saying like you're outgrownding by the age of four name,

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Speaker 1: but it's still in your psyche, isn't it. What the upbringing?

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Speaker 1: It's funny, funny transition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is just like you know it is to

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Speaker 2: be natured and loved them, you know, guided through your life.

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Speaker 2: You know what it is to be beating you know,

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Speaker 2: batter that's gonna be fair thought. That happened in everyone's family.

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Speaker 3: And whether he's the piece with it, you know, young

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Speaker 3: kids that you will you know, I realized that it

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Speaker 3: didn't it was any difference at my houseo to theirs,

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Speaker 3: and he often wanted to be, you know, living with

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Speaker 3: them and their family, you know, even that I was adopted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is all a mistake. That's my family, not

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Speaker 1: this one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When when did you start getting into trouble with the law?

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Speaker 1: When when did that start to play it?

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Speaker 2: I was probably like about fifteen, sixteen years old, heaving

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Speaker 2: towards sixteen years old, and you know, I was boxing

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Speaker 2: for a couple of years. I didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: her own. So five shows standing on the street corners

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Speaker 2: with young lads. I was heading in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: It was quite well behaved. But then yeah, just trying

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Speaker 2: to face in with a different crowd, and then drugs

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Speaker 2: come on the scene. You know when I faced it

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Speaker 2: was dealing cars. You know the thrill there's three or

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Speaker 2: four years going out and enjoyed riding. You know. Then

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Speaker 2: you know that you can make a little bit of

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Speaker 2: money for sholling wheels, seams in carsteadios. You know, by

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Speaker 2: getting money, you know what you know, you start spend

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Speaker 2: it on a bit of drink and that's a gay

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Speaker 2: weight dog, you know, then a little bit of cannabis,

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Speaker 2: and then you're so balling two other things. So to

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Speaker 2: me it was quite rapid. I realized that when it

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Speaker 2: starts to say glug, you have very child with experiences

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Speaker 2: kind of melted away from the bit briefly.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, and you describe a path that has been

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Speaker 1: followed so often by so many people. You know, you

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Speaker 1: start dabbling in a little bit of crime, you get

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Speaker 1: caught up in the wrong crowd, have alcohol. You haven't

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Speaker 1: got the sense to know what your limited is when

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Speaker 1: you're a kid, and then you start cannabis and then

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Speaker 1: rolls into something something more serious. Did you at any

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Speaker 1: point in those those times, you know, I'm thinking you're

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Speaker 1: fifteen around that age sixteen, did you ever try and

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Speaker 1: check yourself and think I am heading down the wrong

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Speaker 1: path here? Did that ever cross your mind?

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Speaker 2: You know what, it's even perfectly honest, moll, I suppose

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Speaker 2: would have had that guidence. It was not like I

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Speaker 2: think what happened was that I got sixteen years old,

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Speaker 2: I was on these drugs. You know, it was all fun,

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Speaker 2: it was all games, but it was losing fights. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure I was losing the willingness, and you know that

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Speaker 2: the joy, the enjoyment was a bit short of like declining.

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Speaker 2: And then I think what really really God was when

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Speaker 2: he had the fight was then based off when I

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Speaker 2: was sixteen years old.

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Speaker 1: A straight far a straight farce. You got a nice

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Speaker 1: little Evander Hollofield.

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Speaker 2: Either. Yeah, it wasn't actually based off it was shown

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Speaker 2: back hornbook. It kind of didn't heal. So the SV

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Speaker 2: movie again a couple of weeks later.

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Speaker 1: Wait, wait did that happen? Was that in the ring

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Speaker 1: or was that in the straight?

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Speaker 2: That was a three fights that was all the strong

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Speaker 2: petty as a young kid. It was an argument with

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Speaker 2: an older lad who was like short of like yeah,

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Speaker 2: sort of boulsom and everyone was afraid of him, and

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Speaker 2: he's used to be mad than me and his adular

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Speaker 2: bully and everyone. And I'm not taking this. I must

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Speaker 2: you know, if you've got a staffish something of your

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Speaker 2: fall for any of us and given as good as

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Speaker 2: it gore. Yeah, unfortunately, you know me a bit and

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Speaker 2: then me shelf esteem, me confidence, the way I look,

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Speaker 2: the way I perceived himself with girls and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about that, but yeah, if you

301
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Speaker 1: had a badly damage you, you're a little bit sensitive

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Speaker 1: about your looks and everything that's going on at that

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Speaker 1: that age. So yeah, I can understand that would ply

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Speaker 1: on your mind.

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Speaker 2: It's totally he was. I was just distructed more then.

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Speaker 1: Well did you did you do time in boys homes?

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Speaker 1: Do you have no a detention centers?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I don't like when I was Chevy seeing

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Speaker 2: me firsteens, I was gonna care all for a couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks at sixteen to commit a time and then okay,

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Speaker 2: I kind of like that to be honest. It sounds daisy,

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Speaker 2: but it was a It was a mixed care all

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Speaker 2: with girls and lads. They would all just functional, liking shelf,

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Speaker 2: a little mad, crazy gang of unwell kids to believe.

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Speaker 1: So the way the way you're describing the billy, I

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Speaker 1: can say it would be fun, but they'd have to

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Speaker 1: keep a tight rain on that because it could get

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Speaker 1: out of control too in a bunch of crew like

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Speaker 1: you described.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, meet ye meet and girls and then you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, you full of test all. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: young and you know you love a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a revelent. It was I was. I was arrested and

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Speaker 2: on Liverpool showed me access who you know, the girls

325
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Speaker 2: to avatime. I love the socials and all that. So

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Speaker 2: it was just like it was. It was it was

327
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Speaker 2: getting objected by a different kind of car. And I

328
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Speaker 2: didn't want to go for bail. I mean, you know,

329
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Speaker 2: young and you know Baylor's you know where they.

330
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Speaker 1: You let you go, You're you're happy where you were.

331
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to get bail. We'll go back home.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy the fel Steve, but obviously he bailed me

333
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Speaker 2: because it would be first defense. And then it wasn't

334
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Speaker 2: long after that I was in juvenile hear Masste's Young

335
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Speaker 2: Defenders Institute.

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Speaker 1: How did you cope with that? Was it daunting for

337
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Speaker 1: you or was it almost like it was never the Yeah,

338
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Speaker 1: it was very frightened.

339
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Speaker 2: It was because I've got to a point ended. I

340
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,680
Speaker 2: was addicted to the past drugs, the A six days,

341
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 2: never seeing the transition from canabis and you know, snow

342
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 2: balled into that massively. And I didn't understand the withdra

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Speaker 2: passed taking Opius until that they go into this Young

344
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Speaker 2: Defenders and Shoes. I was there for the week. I

345
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,959
Speaker 2: was horrible with the facet week and I never slept.

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Speaker 1: You're you're coming off the gate whale, isn't that?

347
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, off the gear. I'm just we're gonna celerible states,

348
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 2: couldn't shrip, but couldn't stop paying move and I was

349
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Speaker 2: I was vomiting, had crampsh it was it was. It

350
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: was an end of experience study. I remember vividly. And

351
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 2: the worst pass about it was like she was lying

352
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Speaker 2: it all night, you know, for hours. It's just like

353
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Speaker 2: wide away and and having to having soon no they

354
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Speaker 2: I'm going to be doing it the next night, and

355
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Speaker 2: the nice after that, and then the nice after that

356
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 2: without any street and then we went by and I

357
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 2: went to the course like you got to remember your

358
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 2: fair Simon in a proper prison. And then you gave

359
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 2: me bail. He said. It was at the course and

360
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 2: there was a fan of fifteen pounds which he paid,

361
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 2: bought me a drink and said, you know what's wrong?

362
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 2: Did you? And I couldn't really say. I was just

363
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,959
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't want to didn't have any idea

364
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 2: any you know, wrongly, I don't know, I didn't have

365
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 2: any understanding what you.

366
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Speaker 1: Just said there. It's so like it said, because you're old.

367
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 1: Man's a product of his environment too, and he's probably

368
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing, but it's probably the

369
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 1: worst thing he could do. And yeah, I'll talk to

370
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 1: him and take you across the across to the pub.

371
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, well I was let's try. I wasn't. That

372
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 2: wasn't that big drinking and never i've been, you know,

373
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Speaker 2: being shown. That's being quite fond of it, you know,

374
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 2: sultably as Fiday. But you know it was really I

375
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,639
Speaker 2: didn't least fit intentially the drinking crowd. Yeah, yeah, I

376
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,159
Speaker 2: had to drink him to drinking cool share at least. No,

377
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 2: he's just watching me.

378
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: What was the hook that heroin? What heroin is such

379
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 1: a like it destroys so many lives And like, I

380
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: hear so many people talk about you once they've gone

381
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 1: down down that path. What was the hook for you

382
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 1: with heroin?

383
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 2: And what it gave me? It was like, yeah, I'll

384
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 2: tell you how it started. A meta Gale found on

385
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 2: his three calls. She must have been about twety years old.

386
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 2: She was a shell of a shawl on the streets

387
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 2: and you know, you know, can you can you get

388
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 2: us any rowin? I was like, yeah, never even knew

389
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 2: what it was. Never they did it well, I never

390
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: knew what it was, never experienced day. I never knew

391
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 2: where to get it from. Should have Shaya and the

392
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 2: glads who were now who used to buy cannabis shops

393
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 2: happened to walk by. He's come over and she's like,

394
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 2: can you get this gage? You litter get gave But

395
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: he put me into the right direction. You know. I

396
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 2: was trying to do good seas on it and pressed

397
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 2: him and that was that when I drop into his

398
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 2: flask nothing what they needed. I was watching them smoking

399
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 2: and yeah, I was on the knee like couturing down

400
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: smoking and on this film and was looking on, you know,

401
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 2: strip me, and that's what I did, after just the

402
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: joints the name with only holy this. You know, you'll

403
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 2: enjoy this, And I thought he's coming on to me,

404
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So it's like curiosity. And

405
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 2: I had a little a little girl and that was vomiting,

406
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: you know, you know, but after that he feeling of

407
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 2: like security, like a blanket over it. Strange and so

408
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 2: you know, if you took me back to away place,

409
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 2: you still had a bit of error. And we smoked

410
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 2: it the next day as fast as you get the feel,

411
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 2: and I wasn't like vomiting. And then I leave it

412
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 2: and then I called me a little way and then

413
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 2: you know, come back to it a week later though,

414
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 2: two weeks, and then it became habit forming.

415
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 1: I'm always curious, and I asked people with with the

416
00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: heroin addiction, like, at any point when when you're you've

417
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 1: just described the point now to where where it's got you,

418
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: you're chasing it, At any point do you have a

419
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 1: clarity of mind to step back and think what am

420
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: I doing? Why am I going down this path? Or

421
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 1: is that those thoughts downing even cross your mind when

422
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: you're addicted.

423
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 2: Man, it's so far back now. I think at the

424
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 2: time it would be you know, you're young, You've got

425
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 2: a native arrogance. You know, you think you can live

426
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: forever at an early age, you know, bigst chair. I

427
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 2: never had that awareness, but that understanding. I've got some

428
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 2: point where the face time I've done that in a

429
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 2: prison that was forced on me. I had no choice

430
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 2: to do it. War Black and Blue will never do

431
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: this again.

432
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: This is it.

433
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 2: I've had a loaf. I can't go through that. I

434
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: hated it. And the minute I got out, every father

435
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 2: in me being with streaming, get more, you'll be okay.

436
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 2: Difference and it's like that eyes you know, you know,

437
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: repeat the same mishaking, expected different results, and that's what

438
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: I used. I'll do it, It'll be different, and it wasn't.

439
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: It was over the game. And I found shall repeating

440
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 2: that pattern of like refusially year after year after year,

441
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 2: month after month, week after week.

442
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: I must stop them, just keep grabbing you back in

443
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: time in prison. So this is your sixteen seventeen, You're

444
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: addicted to drugs. You've done time in juvenile detention centers.

445
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: When did you hit the big house? When did you

446
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 1: hit the adult prisons and what sort of offenses were

447
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: they for.

448
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: I was twenty one years old. I was three. You know,

449
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: you've got to be an adult at twenty one in

450
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: the UK to get it in the big hosh was

451
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 2: the crabs were all druglyvated shop lifting. I was, I was,

452
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: I was a petty animal.

453
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: The crime was to support the drug habits.

454
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't really matter whether it was lobbing another

455
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 2: drug dealer or robbing a lot of drug as if

456
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 2: or you know, robbing me family or mean, it was

457
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: a means to an end race. I didn't know. I

458
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: did not want to feel the way I felt right,

459
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 2: do anything to get it.

460
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: I've had other people talk about going down the path

461
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: not this similar to what you've described and juvenile detention center.

462
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: Everything's exciting, We're all going to be gangsters, We're all

463
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: going to do this. Everything's yeah, we've got the future

464
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: ahead of us. You said that sort of arrogance of youth.

465
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: But I've had people describe to me when they hit

466
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: the big house, the adult PRIs and they look around

467
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: and they see blakes in their forties and fifties of

468
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: the spent yeah, half their life in prison and it's

469
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: not that they realize it's not as glamorous. Did that

470
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: cross your mind at twenty one? Going in there and

471
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: a young young, a.

472
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: Young defenders person is very fast, lafishly quick, you know,

473
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: you know you don't be as all quick as far

474
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: you get to you know, the big olch and it

475
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: slows down all all the cons of shield out a

476
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 2: bit more mellow.

477
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: You know.

478
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,719
Speaker 2: I'm like, let him out on the rounds because all

479
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: that energy, and I remember it's a little old man,

480
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: as there's an old man and he always I love

481
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: to talk about this because he's probably wont the same

482
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: age as me enw But he was fanning next he

483
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: was found the next right. So it was on the

484
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 2: prison land and that led my arms over it over

485
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: the the railings, looking as I it's the lower level,

486
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: and I was looking at him and a little saying.

487
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 2: He had a pair of saying he's on a pair

488
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 2: of blue jeans, and he went, you know what's gone?

489
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: You know we're not getting any younger and life doesn't

490
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: get any easy, you know. Yeah, all right, lads, look

491
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: at you? You know what I mean? That was my

492
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: answer to you, How can you tell me anything? You're ear,

493
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: But conversation has resonated over over over the ears of

494
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: my mind. His family to the prison. That she just

495
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: resonated really always like popped into the head that fellow Chad.

496
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: That's yea. He was vising, you know, or doesn't feel

497
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: like I'm getting any younger. And it wasn't getting any

498
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: easier either.

499
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes sometimes a very powerful message and a simple message,

500
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: isn't it And the comment that makes you reflect.

501
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: Man sor he showed me that there's a different way

502
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: of life offered me a little bit of hope. I

503
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: wasn't really willing to listen at the time.

504
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: No, well you saying that, and I read someway correct

505
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, But you're saying like you still

506
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: had a rebellus streak even when you were in custody.

507
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: You did a protest on the roof until you got

508
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: sun strike took us through that. What was that all about?

509
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: Couldn't face the reality of life no matter the way

510
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: there was, you know, I didn't want to waken them

511
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 2: after shame Monday and day in and out. It was

512
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: just all say was audible. There was no interventions as

513
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: you get today. It was just a job short that

514
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: you were banged up for twenty three hours. It was hot.

515
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: It was to day of the year through toowdy, and

516
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 2: I thought, this is gott to end this iss. You've

517
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: got to stop. I'm taking medication. I'm taking drugs that

518
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: I would never even see. Anyone who's got tablets, what addie?

519
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: I don't know take them anyway? You know, did you

520
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: feel any diftuff from what you're feeling now? Don't just

521
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: find them? I mean as you won't give us a cent.

522
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: So meet meet me mad at getting cloud of these medication.

523
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: Did with this medication and putting a bit of weights

524
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: on them, and it was like even really negative. It

525
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: was audible. And I members standing on the yar. The

526
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: someone's beating army leftless on our pictures and one of

527
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: the young lads for shame, Look you have a space

528
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: off where shaped Obviously, let's just stay on the yar.

529
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: When they called it in after the allergy, just stay

530
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 2: out because the weather's way. They were only going to

531
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: go back into those those shelves and like wet boxes.

532
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: So we all rather rebel and then we're not going in.

533
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: So when he called the game, we all say it out.

534
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: That's when the gates shots. They knew there was a problem.

535
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: Then a couple of hours went by and then you know,

536
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: the decisions to climb on the route was made by

537
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: another young guy. People were throwing the beats out the

538
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: window and we made a makeshift throw. We had to swatch.

539
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: Gave me up this training pipe. And the minute he

540
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: got on that route and the yells of approval that

541
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: you know after for them and I bang him. It's amazing.

542
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: I have on a bit of that. So he was

543
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: getting all those attention and then it was my tain

544
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: and like fourteen it was back up. Was like the

545
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: tad patents to get up. And I remember climber up

546
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: and it was half way up this this make shift

547
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: row and I remember there in this this pressure office

548
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: poll missed on much. That's his real name, Joe. You'll

549
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: never You'll never get up there. You fast and kindly

550
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: maybe like jolter bait and straighten and and I landed

551
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: back down on the conquery and the landing on the

552
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: back side, and I felt so shame and show embarrassed,

553
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: wat to the ground for ork swallow me and not

554
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 2: giving up, not giving up and try to do it again.

555
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: I was the oldest one that was the fastestest met

556
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: up at the time, yells approval. I have the hands

557
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: in the early rockey bell bawl. Yeah, and the minute

558
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: the clappers to night and it was about the next

559
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: patient getting up. I looked over the over the edge

560
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: of the the roofs I see all these shape pleasure offices,

561
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: and of course that's yea when it comes down and

562
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 2: I am going to get a good beating off the ease.

563
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was short lived. The excitements and the thrills.

564
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: It's funny how you describe it, because I can see

565
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: how you're driven to that. This is your your moment

566
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 1: all of a sudden. Yeah, you're the focus of attention.

567
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: You're enjoying yourself. You've broken up the monotony and the

568
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: way you go. Yeah, it was Was it two thousand

569
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: and five when you decided to head over the Thailand?

570
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: What was your mindset there? Why white Thailand? And were

571
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: you clean? You're out of prison obviously.

572
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that prison experience that I climbed on the roof,

573
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: that was like that significant change in my legs. It

574
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: was I was put us to delegating units. Then from

575
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: from that more much comfortable. Eight stolid months, policy confinements,

576
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: stiff and prisions. Yeah, they around, yeah, loads of times

577
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: a team, loads of times that he flat you know,

578
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: writing letters in your family, polishing them. I wouldn't do

579
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: it again. I wouldn't name, it wouldn't get out, and

580
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: I wouldn't use.

581
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: It, you know.

582
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: And I remember to get the opportunity to speak to

583
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: me more because of something that had happened on another

584
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: sherogation unit. I couldn't even forma senses for me mom

585
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: as to the phone, I was like, really hate because

586
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: it's been taken away from lobal location and putting short. See,

587
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: there was no drugs in me shaw, so I was

588
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: quite drow The wall of feelings were quite vibrance and laid,

589
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: so any anything, I was very shesitive. So when he

590
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: mostly like she tostly, oh my god, you okay, love,

591
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: what's going on to you about your billy? Look? Change

592
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: your life? Get help past that? It hit me really

593
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: hard and I couldn't answer her on the phone because

594
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: there was cheap perision officers standing next to me and

595
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: they were quite big, and I was like after trough

596
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: at the same time with the fours if I blink

597
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: tears ago to falls down on my face because there

598
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: was water in my eyes. So it just crated me

599
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: seeing me, won't she look, I know you're hate and

600
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: s just as for hell and I she said, put

601
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: the phones on and went back and broke to on

602
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: and Michelle. And that's when I wrote the letter to

603
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: a place your office. Sherry came up suggested the Dove rehabilitation.

604
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: You know, he had scheftered it because anything at that time,

605
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: but the truth, I mean shure. I went into this

606
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: rehabilitation in two thousand and four and that's when I

607
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: was introduced to recovery to the group called the Coltics Anonymous.

608
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: You know, it was a fou. It was an addictive analitate.

609
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: The personality one was too many in a thousand was nevertheless,

610
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: you know, I've got a little bit of awareness of all.

611
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: Your operator is now a navigated through light. You know,

612
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: if a pick up the face, one maples the damage.

613
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: So it was like, you know, you have to remain

614
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: abstinence and after the samis quite floors I don't as

615
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: well as as as a flaws, but he said, look,

616
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: you only have to stop using just to today. So okay,

617
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: I can do that just today and a day led

618
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: to it. It's a week, some weeks, letter months and

619
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: months letter years, and you know they a plan, you know,

620
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: with a whole new way of living. I feel like,

621
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: you know, young has a lessons in a man's body

622
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: at this time, because what had happened is I used

623
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: drugs from the earlias and started me emotional development. So

624
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: by the time I was hasty and had been it's

625
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: used to distruggy, I was still afting like a seventeen

626
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: year old, you know.

627
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might makes sense when you describe it that way.

628
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: If not younger. So you know, Thailand, you know, was

629
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: messaged to me by a friend who just come back.

630
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: You know, we've been in recovery for five years of

631
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: relocated to a place called Bristol, which was like it

632
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: was five hours away from Liverpool, and he was just

633
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: groushat and he was telling me about his experience in Thailand.

634
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: I've never been abroad. I've only ever been on a

635
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 2: sweat box to different prisons in the UK and never

636
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: actually traveled anyway. Never had a passport, a bank account,

637
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: of phone, they had money, you know, the things that

638
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: people take for glances today. So we don't excite him,

639
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: and he said, why don't you try to shave up

640
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: and you know we'll go. We'll go to Thailand and

641
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: he showed me this idea of a beautiful place of visit.

642
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 2: You know, we'll go backpack and he was a bit

643
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: of an adventure there and I thought, okay, a field,

644
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: I'd be shaped with this guy because he's five years

645
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: creen and to me he was like put him on

646
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: a pedestal. Wow. So I dare to save the bit

647
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: of money, got myself the pass board all that sizes

648
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: back past airports and that was it. We were gone,

649
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm a world class card carrying pleasure.

650
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: She had, you knows, meselfing to tight paer of genius

651
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: just for the feel, because it wasn't usual drug.

652
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 3: I was.

653
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: I was tired of life. I stopped smoking, I was

654
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: training regular and I was boxing again and quite face

655
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: and I was young, what hasy one?

656
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: You know?

657
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: Banding me life?

658
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: You know?

659
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: When I got off this plane in Bangkok and there

660
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: was November, I remember because he had left. I'd left him.

661
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: He throw airports in London and the weather was like

662
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: vision and the tempionship was low. I've been hit with

663
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: this ways I've never exterious that he'd like that, you know,

664
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: and I thought, wow, this is exciting, and that was that,

665
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: you know, it was great for a few few most

666
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: out there, and so they went downhill.

667
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: How were you surviving over there, Billy? When you landed?

668
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: When I was living on a budget, to be fair,

669
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: because it didn't drink. We were sharing water and we

670
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: were sharing like the apartments. She'd saved enough money to

671
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: get by, you know, we merely living beyond that means

672
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: we couldn't. It was a shoe drink and we were

673
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: walking everywhere. We were getting local bushes, the local scenes,

674
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: and it was like the sham. I enjoyed it, you know,

675
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: he enjoyed the ex traveling the way they do. It

676
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: was like then, you know, when it became I wanted

677
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: to stay. After the femur, I'd met a Gales. She

678
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: spoke English. She she was our Japanese off American and

679
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: better than a meeting, you know, wedding bells were blowing

680
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 2: off in the air because she was playing the chatters

681
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: and she was she was giving me attention, and I thought, wow,

682
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: you know, if she's not I'm not used to this,

683
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: you know, especially if I'm not a woman that's good

684
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: looking as this one. I thought, I want to stay

685
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: here and I'll be for them as they look, i'm

686
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: going back. We need to go back in less than

687
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: a week. And I went, look, I'm staying. So what

688
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: are you going to do or you want to survive?

689
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: I said, I think of shut show started doing this

690
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: big news a box of competing. Then I thought they

691
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: had job as a TC and English as a foreign

692
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: language because he had a travel shows. That's some kind

693
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: of income. Then you know, then I got a job

694
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: on a Rambo four. We're for shore vestors alone, So.

695
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, just break that down. So we've got the story

696
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: this far. You've been over there, you went over there

697
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: with your mate three months, you liked it, you met

698
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: a woman that you liked. You thought, I'm going to

699
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: stay here. Why why get why go back? You got

700
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: employment teaching my title fighting my tie, which is the

701
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: next sport over in in Thailand, and teaching English. And

702
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: then I think this was in in your book and

703
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: talking about on set for Rainback four with Sylvester Saloon.

704
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: It's an interesting deviation in your life. Talk talk to

705
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: us about that.

706
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: But what I think was I was in a GB

707
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: called the Royal Verital selling Shang Mai and it was there.

708
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 2: It was a hotels, yam you go there, just use it.

709
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: It was and I was a guy in there on

710
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: the run machine and I recognized places stain. Is he

711
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: a boxer? Maybe that's where it's seen them show started

712
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: it's got away and said that maybe what do you

713
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: flo You should have film meious you're a boxer. You went, no, no,

714
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 2: you should have laughed it. I said, oh, yeah, that's

715
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: your fad. What have you been in these correlations? Which

716
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: is a popular program that's being on go USU in

717
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: the UK, And I never, I never don't watch that

718
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: sort so okay, yeah, that's that's nice. Just what are

719
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: you doing? Early old fellow for music or you know ramble,

720
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: you know, but what you mentioned rulers stology because he

721
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: was my you know, no rock rock? Yeah, you know, yeah,

722
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: I love rocking. He said yeah, he said, you know,

723
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: I've got a roll in that, and so that's got

724
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: for you in it, And that's that was Yeah. I

725
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: didn't think much of it. A couple of days later

726
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: I'd tell you I was in the same gym, and

727
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: then you know, the casting Ayson came in looking for

728
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: all you know, non tie so westerns and it was

729
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: a shovision there the asters will be late to have

730
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: a be an extra, be a part of a party

731
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: in this movie. She chumped at the chance, gave it

732
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: all the details. He chucked me. I's each other, photographs,

733
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 2: we name and data, bath and everything else that you needed.

734
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 2: And then I'd say about a week later, it gets

735
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: a phone call with this this American actions, Hey billy,

736
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: smile America. You know will be love what we had.

737
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: We love what we saw in the gym, and you

738
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: know we'd like to see you know, we'd like to

739
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: get you on board. Would you would you come in?

740
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 2: And we need you to play so vestless the long

741
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: standing and it's all come on whose day? Because I

742
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: told everyone, I mean I told everyone that you couldn't

743
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 2: getting anything at the times they're excited. I was telling

744
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: everyone for someone's someone's having a joke here. What yeah, man,

745
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: we we we love what you're doing. And found it

746
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: very convinced them to be fatal. Was it? Man, I've

747
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 2: got play along here. He meets at the Royal Local.

748
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 2: Don't tell her five a m. I was thinking that's

749
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: a bit early, you know, five am. That was okay,

750
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: So I got off the fallout. But I was like,

751
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: nice to be a black or just don't know me.

752
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: I went to the Royal Local do tell a five.

753
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: I was there to be earlier, and then there was

754
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: a little mini bus waiting for her that was off today.

755
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: It's location close to the Baby's border in a Shangai.

756
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: And that's why I start to the this movie show

757
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 2: with Stone. That's him.

758
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: You made him, you got to meet him.

759
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was speaking to him. I wasted fans and

760
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 2: I was gonna tailor he games with what faith he haven't?

761
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: Just like that.

762
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: Damn for a sake, Billy, You've grown up watching Rocky

763
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: and Sylvester Salone as your hero like so many other

764
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: other people in the from the Rocky films, And here

765
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: you are in the trailer working on a film with

766
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: him playing the stunt double and he comes to watch

767
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: a fight. How cool would have that been?

768
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: That's amazing? But what he added benefit, he added bonus

769
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: to meet meeting him the way he did was his man.

770
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: As yet it's called Kevin King Templeton Races. Now. Kevin

771
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: King is a sculture. He's from Littletool, He's a shelf

772
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: made a millionaire and he lived in Krotte and I

773
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: had a football shopper and you know you've on littlepool.

774
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah he's so started at toll and what you hear,

775
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: but you do hear them as you do. Said, you

776
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: know I managed alone. I was like your mess and

777
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: I'm a pretty badly kidnapped like and it's all get

778
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: a picture of the get him, get him and get

779
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: him to get a picture of merola, so we said.

780
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: And the father name, I said, I was Unuro. Once

781
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: those crow to him, he's had had the throats on

782
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: this sin where he said, I need a volunteer man,

783
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 2: I want to rich somebody's pipe out, I said, had

784
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: he had there hands on his throats for this she

785
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: and to set up the lighting on the camera, shadow

786
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and you know it was just

787
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: like shining and getting me thrown ripped out by show

788
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: this that the loan wow by ramble. But after that

789
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: that shot, I said, I said to Kevin, said, low,

790
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 2: I don't care who you are. There's no man on

791
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: the planet that right now. Another man's went pipe out

792
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: with his beads and he went rambo can right, Uh,

793
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: you haven't got an answer for that. It was just yes,

794
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: but that was making edible amazing. Berry is the way

795
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: to them for a few months. That's some really wonderful people,

796
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: some colorful characters. Life was kind of useful at the time.

797
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 2: I was waking in the fuel, I was boxing over night,

798
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: a litt bit of an income. I was getting paid

799
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 2: to this year filming, which you would have tumped them onto.

800
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: Really, so it was a good time in your life

801
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: for a good period. And you're thinking, you're pointing in

802
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: a good direction.

803
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was cleaning. I was in covery. I was

804
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: doing all the my things goal to meeting. Yeah, I'm

805
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 2: sure I was shod.

806
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: And when you when you say you were boxing, were

807
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: you're doing moy thile? Was it a straight boxing or

808
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: you're into the mutie.

809
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: That that and that was yeah, I was. I was

810
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: fighting in silent with the size.

811
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fight on every night, there isn't it.

812
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: Then with the.

813
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes clear and I yeah, yeah, well it didn't really

814
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: matter to me.

815
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, have you ever wondered what goes on behind

816
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: the headlines of a gang war or shooting? Then you

817
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: need to listen to crim City. Join crime reporters Mark

818
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: Murray and Josh Hamrahan as they uncovered the details of

819
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: crimes unfolding on Sydney streets and share the stories that

820
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 1: don't make the papers. The latest season of crim City

821
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: is out now. Listen early and ad free on Crime

822
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: x plus on Apple Podcast Today. So where that go

823
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: bad then, Billy? Where do you sort of slip off

824
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: the good direction?

825
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: That's great? I feel when the film and ended and

826
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 2: everyone went badge, you know, I mess a lot of gear.

827
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 2: I was emotionally. Is she sure I couldn't deal with

828
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 2: the jackson my father? She had another gay yeah, so

829
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: as actually and other fells. You know me, I was

830
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 2: blud she was shy when I was driving. She says

831
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 2: she loved me. I said, have loved there, but Ja,

832
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: she says she loved this jere like that thoughts me

833
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: and you and I same on the UNA and I

834
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: couldn't get me head dried and she couldn't wait again

835
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: A rather fact that I put my chef that I

836
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: was very confused and and and we have to part company.

837
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: But it broke me. It broke me very dead, and

838
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: I couldn't deal without felt I couldn't cope. I stopped

839
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: going to meetings. I didn't want to tell people about

840
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: where it was, adding me life shame and my father

841
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: shove that E barged the lincome boat water went to

842
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: their bro you know. And then I remember looking at

843
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: the name the Spirits and having this little fight inside me, saying,

844
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 2: you know, one I'll take away the pain. Just watch someone.

845
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: And I was arguing with my sling with dogs and

846
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: I lost that battle. You know, the fuckers kicked in

847
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 2: gives them. They didn't have brandy at the time, struggle

848
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: with it's a show. Wish you and remember it then,

849
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: and we shocked off with strolls are the pain? Kind

850
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: of the space hevaporated. I picked up a phone books

851
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: with under the English guy. I said, look, brings some

852
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: drugs to this this bar he came with from Shum

853
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: come down and I said, no, look, we need to

854
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: get from cocaine. So who do you do we asked, Well,

855
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: that's the lazy boys. Yeah, got in thrun to this

856
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: lazy boy was smoking up down the streets. Cocaine. No cocaine,

857
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: yeah ba, so what's that? We don't know what didn't

858
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: even editing never edded it? Yeah by okay, okay, yeah bye.

859
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: Got on the back of the bike went to this

860
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: backseats apartments. I mean this. This guy went into this

861
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: room shut down on the stubble bed with these sides ship.

862
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: There was about four or five sides on the floor

863
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 2: and the smoke filled where he cares. Not one of

864
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: them looked at us. While this lady boy went upstairs

865
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: somewhere to buy these these Yaba pills. She came on

866
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 2: with these pink tablets and what's this? What did we do?

867
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to see her the tablet and no,

868
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: the mean I want shut And then she put her

869
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: on the foil and put it on the foil and

870
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 2: what's this tablet evaporates into into a bowl of oil

871
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: and it remained the ahead of him the head and

872
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 2: goes like a black hockey. And that's what happened with

873
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: this pair of her from a pink tablet into a

874
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 2: black oily liquid. I think, wow. The smokers cuver off

875
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: it smoke that then you this Wow, I was like this,

876
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: this feeling was so amazing at the time, it was,

877
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: it was quick. It's shown every and away I wanted

878
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: was more than easily.

879
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's life going good. You've been hurting a

880
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: love situation you're you're looking to numb the pine, and

881
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,959
Speaker 1: you fell back in their own habits. It's as said

882
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: in as simple as that.

883
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, after three inch of maintaining an after gi

884
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: you know, I ate that old hard with drugs again,

885
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 2: you know, but this time in a different county, taking

886
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 2: addiction to a different level. Feeling I was untouchable in

887
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: this truncy because the door of corruption.

888
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: So you got the taste of it. You're thinking, well,

889
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get damn for it if I

890
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: get caught a pirvate cops off or whatever.

891
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: The white if if you had the money you know,

892
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: that paid them off for it. Was that Asst Hude

893
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, to fund the abbot that

894
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: had developed the kind of like get some some more

895
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: income because we've lost the job, but go with the kids.

896
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: A skull because of that didn't turn up. But it

897
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: was not doing well I should have been doing it

898
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: was not I'm not pleasant the boxing. I wasn't really

899
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 2: engaging because it was losing fight because he had no

900
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: fitness in me. So we had no shows that in

901
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: con show was offered part of the drugs by this

902
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: high former time police officers to make money and from

903
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: the abbey. You know, the temptation they was too much

904
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: to refuse. And I took the bag of pills and

905
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: started to sell them to the foreigners and nightclubs. I

906
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: was the old best customer. I was usual load of.

907
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here laughing, laughing, Billy, and I shouldn't be

908
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: laughing because it's just said, isn't it. You're just saying, Hey,

909
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: you're talking here and there looking back at your life,

910
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: and you're just you're watching it just fall apart.

911
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 2: Actually it's just like every and it's just like it

912
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 2: seems like a good idea at the time, but in reality,

913
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: you know, it's just destruction, ammihilation of your life. And

914
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 2: that's that's that's what happened. You know, tasty three years

915
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 2: old at this time. You know what I mean is

916
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 2: just falling apart, become badly massy.

917
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, we might will take a break here, Billy.

918
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: We'll end part one and we'll come back come back

919
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: for part two. I've really enjoyed getting a sense of

920
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: who you are and the way that you're going to

921
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: reflect on you know, how do I get to this point?

922
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: At that point? But when we get back for part two.

923
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about when it did go bad,

924
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: when you got locked up in Thailand, your time in prison,

925
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: and how you survive that, because it is about survival

926
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: in there and what you're doing with your life now

927
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: and how you've turned it round. But it's fascinating at

928
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: this stage, and I'm telling people listening here, wait, you

929
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: hear some of the things that went down in the prison,

930
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: that stuff that you don't forget. So we'll be back

931
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: shortly for a part two.