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Speaker 1: One of the key ingredients on pizzas, of course, is sauce,

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Speaker 1: and that comes from tomatoes. And there's an issue, as

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Speaker 1: we know, with hundreds of jobs gone at Perfection Fresh

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Speaker 1: and a couple of other growers nurseries in the region too,

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Speaker 1: where this tomato virus has been found. Tony Sakka from

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Speaker 1: the Salvatore Farms in Virginia on the line, Tony, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, How are you all right?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? I understand yesterday PERSA turned up unannounced at

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Speaker 1: a number of sites, a number of growers, and insisted

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Speaker 1: on inspections and they were undertaken. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Correct? Correct? Unannounced? I mean I did come on five

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Speaker 2: double A yesterday morning, and about an hour later they

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Speaker 2: basically invaded all farms that were suspected trace, wanting to

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Speaker 2: retest all plants again.

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Speaker 1: And now I suppose that would have happened. You can't

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Speaker 1: stop them, can.

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Speaker 2: You, Well, we believe we can, because they don't have

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Speaker 2: they haven't even give us that first results yet, right.

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Speaker 2: The problem is that they have suspected plants on farms

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Speaker 2: that may be infected. Now, I mean I studied, I

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Speaker 2: would I didn't do well as science, so I did

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Speaker 2: not bad at maths. Now, basically, if this virus is

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Speaker 2: in our farms, or even imperfections farm, if one plant

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Speaker 2: can devastate the whole lot. Because plant contacts only from

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Speaker 2: plants plants, it is easy to contact. Now if the

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Speaker 2: crop has been in there for six months, and six

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Speaker 2: months later they find that one suspected plant has got

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Speaker 2: the virus. If I do my Son's correctly, the whole

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Speaker 2: plant is the whole the whole word twenty seven thousand

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Speaker 2: should be infected. So I calling it a fake virus

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Speaker 2: because the the values, which I think Paul might come

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Speaker 2: on a little bit later, he's got more of the

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Speaker 2: science on the on the on the values and how

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Speaker 2: they how they test plant, they're doing it wrongly.

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Speaker 1: Basically, what do you mean the.

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Speaker 2: Cink value just bricked with cink values overseas are thirty two,

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Speaker 2: So the cut off points behaving the virus is thirty two.

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Speaker 2: They've they've made the cut off point yet thirty five.

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Speaker 2: So mainly, if you're over thirty five, you don't have

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Speaker 2: the virus. If you're at thirty five or just a

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Speaker 2: little bit under, they believe that you have a suspected virus.

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Speaker 2: So basically, they're they're using the seed testing instead of

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Speaker 2: the plant testing.

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Speaker 1: Right, But it is in the seed, isn't it. That's

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Speaker 1: that's where it lives.

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Speaker 2: No, it can come from the seed. So the thing

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Speaker 2: is that the primary minister yesterday said she didn't know

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Speaker 2: where it came from. One hundred percent came from a

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Speaker 2: seed that came from overseas, right, one hundred percent. There's

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Speaker 2: no other way that this virus entered the country. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So she she's misinformed or not informed in all what's

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Speaker 2: going on. And basically, is the virus really there? We

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Speaker 2: don't believe those goals because we've seen viruses and just myself,

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Speaker 2: the cross that is suspected was six months old and

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Speaker 2: there was no no dead plants on my property at all.

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Speaker 1: So if there's a section, I imagine you grow them

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Speaker 1: in glasshouses, right, correct, So if you've got a plant

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Speaker 1: in a glasshouse, and even if you remove all the

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Speaker 1: plants from that glasshouse, the rest of the glasshouses should

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Speaker 1: be isolated and separate. So they should be okay, they

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Speaker 1: should be okay.

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Speaker 2: Why did they close all of Perfection?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: It makes no sense at all why they would close

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Speaker 2: that down, that very professional facility that can manage one percent.

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Speaker 2: They can manage it. They were told by farmer industries

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Speaker 2: to stop selling any product. They were told to close.

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Speaker 2: I was saying, to stop selling any product out of

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Speaker 2: the plants. So basically what are they saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're taking a COVID approach to this, aren't we?

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Speaker 1: We're just the blanket shut downs and lockdowns and all

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Speaker 1: the rest.

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Speaker 2: And Perfection Fresh had all the knowledge and all the

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Speaker 2: resources to manage this virus internally and offer assistance to

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Speaker 2: other growers to manage if they had the virus. The

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Speaker 2: primaries did not take that up and said this has

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Speaker 2: got to be a containment. Containment did not work because

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Speaker 2: containment for fear in other states from dealing with our products.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and also six hundred people out of work, so

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Speaker 1: there is that too.

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Speaker 2: Direct people out of work from Perfection now that's ongoing.

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Speaker 2: Could be another six hundred out of Perfection that we're

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Speaker 2: tied in with the box manufacturers of transport companies that

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Speaker 2: will lose their job also. And if this ESCO continues,

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Speaker 2: if it actually continues, there'll be more losses, more farms

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Speaker 2: closing down because of mismanagement.

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Speaker 1: By further Tony, thank you for coming on this morning.

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Speaker 1: We do have Paul on the line as well. That's

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Speaker 1: Tony Sakker from the Salvatore Farms, Paul caf caacus Is

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Speaker 1: from Caffcacus Product Juice, and Paul, I understand you're across

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Speaker 1: the science of all of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so good morning. First of all, Yeah, so we've

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Speaker 3: looked really closely at the science of this information provided

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Speaker 3: by PERSA themselves as well from our colleagues overseas, because

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Speaker 3: as we know, this has been around for seven years

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Speaker 3: all across Europe and the Americas, and so there's an

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Speaker 3: abundance of peer reviewed articles, scientific journals that talk about

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Speaker 3: this virus, how to test for it correctly, all the informations.

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Speaker 3: Then unfortunately it's just been completely thrown out the window

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Speaker 3: by PERSA and the Australian government and we're the ones

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Speaker 3: who are feeling that cost.

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Speaker 1: Now what happens over sex? How do they deal with it?

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Speaker 3: Well, the first thing they do is that they test it.

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Speaker 3: So the way that it's tested, they've got their own

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Speaker 3: standards called the EPPO I'm not sure what the whole abbreviation,

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Speaker 3: and so a suspected plan is tested and if that

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Speaker 3: and they go off CT values. As Tony mentioned, now,

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Speaker 3: the CT values are thirty two. The reason why they

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Speaker 3: thirty two it is because anything above thirty two. Again,

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Speaker 3: what the science shows is that it may have a

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Speaker 3: virus that's a tomato rugas virus, but it's not tomato

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Speaker 3: brown ruga's virus, so there's differences and those other viruses exist.

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Speaker 3: If that plant comes up positive, they retest it again.

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Speaker 3: If that's positive again and the curves match. So basically,

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Speaker 3: as well as having CT value, there also has to

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Speaker 3: be a curve that's an expenditure. So basically the curve

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Speaker 3: goes up and then plateaus. Then they confirmed yep, that's

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Speaker 3: the virus. The way that they do that then is

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Speaker 3: then they will test that group. So again the science

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Speaker 3: shows that unfortunately with this testing you can never get

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent. It's always ninety nine percent. And so

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Speaker 3: what they found is in a group of greenhouse whether

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Speaker 3: it's a heck there or four thousand square meters whatever

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Speaker 3: it is, two hundred lives and needed two hundred levs.

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Speaker 3: If you do two hundred levs from that group, it

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Speaker 3: gives you a ninety nine percent accuracy rate. Yep, they

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Speaker 3: can't guarantee a hundred. Here in Australia, we've done three hundred,

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Speaker 3: as I just mentioned, and as the science says from

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Speaker 3: PERSA themselves, whether you do two hundred or three hundred,

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Speaker 3: you can't get more than ninety nine percent. What's happened

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Speaker 3: now is that rollers are being told and where one

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Speaker 3: of them that you're completely negative. You had one inconclusive test.

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Speaker 3: So I guess the easiest way to explain it is

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Speaker 3: if you had fifty people take a COVID rap test.

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Speaker 3: One person's test came up inconclusive because the line wasn't there,

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Speaker 3: they remakee everyone do the test again. That's essentially what

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Speaker 3: they're saying for all the businesses now. So as Tony

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Speaker 3: said yesterday, people had pers A rock up and say

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Speaker 3: we need to retest your entire greenhouses even though everything

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Speaker 3: else is negative. Overseas. If they get it, it's quite

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Speaker 3: a simple procedure. If it's identified and it's in one row,

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Speaker 3: that row is removed, not the plant, so they'll remove

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Speaker 3: that row and the two rows on either side, which

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Speaker 3: is very similar to what we do now to combat

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Speaker 3: the rest of the viruses and that we currently have

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Speaker 3: here in Australia, and they manage they continue to grow.

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Speaker 1: So we've overreacted, by the sounds of it.

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Speaker 3: Completely overreacted. Look, we'll make no mistake of it. We

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Speaker 3: don't want this virus. Okay, no roller wants any kind

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Speaker 3: of virus for test. Okay, we don't want it. If

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Speaker 3: Australia believes they can eradicate it, go ahead, as long

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Speaker 3: as you're compensating those businesses. But unfortunately we haven't seen

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Speaker 3: that everywhere. It's not only the overreaction, it's the fact

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Speaker 3: that further have acted and their only solution, as Tony said,

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Speaker 3: is shut you down, quarantine, you can't trade, and essentially

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Speaker 3: they've done that to all nineteen businesses. We're part of

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Speaker 3: the trade property by not allowing us to sell our

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Speaker 3: produce into state even though we've been told verbally we're

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Speaker 3: negative and we still haven't seen those results.

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Speaker 1: So how long will it take for you to get

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Speaker 1: those results? Any idea?

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Speaker 3: Well where similar as everyone else. So we've been tested

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Speaker 3: over a month ago, so it's been about forty four

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Speaker 3: days since we were tested. I know that two large

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Speaker 3: properties in Victoria were also tested that were tested after us.

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Speaker 3: They got their results that following week. We've been as

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Speaker 3: I said, about forty four to forty five days now.

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Speaker 3: Still no results yesterday are we We've had We've had

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Speaker 3: two different perther case managers, so people looking into our

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Speaker 3: case for us, they continually changed daily. Yesterday when I

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Speaker 3: asked the question, what are our results, they couldn't tell me.

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Speaker 3: Spoke to someone higher up in FURS so they look

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Speaker 3: into it. Still haven't heard anything back. Judging by this

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Speaker 3: because they want to do three hundred samples. Again, we're

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Speaker 3: looking at the waiting potentially another forty days or an.

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Speaker 1: Otherness at least.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so now, Paul, you mentioned nineteen odd businesses affected.

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Speaker 1: Now we know of three that have been closed down

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Speaker 1: and quarantine, so there are more effect that. How does

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Speaker 1: that flow through? What do you mean by more nineteen

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Speaker 1: in the trace area?

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Speaker 3: So what's happened is there's been three confirmed or there's

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Speaker 3: three businesses that persas that are confirmed to have it.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Of those three businesses, I know of two that have

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Speaker 3: not received their full results. They've only been given CT values. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 3: so they've been told you can pick, you can pay

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Speaker 3: your workers, but you can't make any money by selling.

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Speaker 3: Everyone who was tied into the nursery has been tested

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Speaker 3: and for a lot of growers, we're not one of them.

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Speaker 3: But for example, we've got we've got friends who are

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Speaker 3: part of that as well. They sell all their produce

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Speaker 3: into State. They can't send their stuff into State until

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Speaker 3: their results come back, so in order to send to

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Speaker 3: Sydney you need to be cleared by PERSA. Like we said,

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Speaker 3: we're forty five days in and they're unable to sell produce.

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Speaker 3: You can't. We can't wear this cost anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: not good and you need an answer quickly from PERSA.

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Speaker 1: You need your results quickly. Is this just the testing process?

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Speaker 1: It takes forty days. There's no way that can be

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Speaker 1: done any quick.

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Speaker 3: No, no, it definitely can be done quicker. We asked

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Speaker 3: the question three weeks ago why our labs here in

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Speaker 3: South Australia isn't accredited. We've just showed that it will

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Speaker 3: be accredited as of next week. The reason why it's

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Speaker 3: taken so long is instead of testing one business at

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Speaker 3: a time and clearing them quickly, they decided to test

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Speaker 3: all businesses at once and do small parts. And now

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Speaker 3: what's happened is because of a few inconclusive tests, which

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Speaker 3: means essentially you're negative because, like I said, instead of

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Speaker 3: doing two hundred samples, we have a compensated with three hundred.

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Speaker 3: They want to do it again. But yeah, we just

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Speaker 3: have to keep waiting now unfortunately, until they can give

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Speaker 3: us results. But everyone we've spoken so can't do that.

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Speaker 1: When the simple solution would be rip out the row

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Speaker 1: and one either side if.

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Speaker 3: We had it, yes, but we know we don't have it.

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Speaker 3: This look as I've seen this virus overseas, We've seen

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Speaker 3: the case studies. If you have one infected plant and

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Speaker 3: you do nothing about it. The Minister and Persa keep

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Speaker 3: going on and say, seventy five percent what anything that

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Speaker 3: we currently have, betry it as tomato, spotted wilt virus?

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Speaker 3: Power do you mild? You all these viruses and diseases

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Speaker 3: that exist here in Australia. If you do nothing, you

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Speaker 3: will lose one hundred percent of your crop without a doubt. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's not a scare tactic. If we lose our crop, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: it goes down to the growers. Consumers don't care, the

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Speaker 3: government doesn't care. We have to wear those costs. If

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Speaker 3: we have this, we know what to do to manage it.

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Speaker 3: It's no different to any other virus, except it's more aggressive. Okay,

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Speaker 3: but we would manage it. Everyone would manage it.

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Speaker 1: And now you've got person trying to manage it, which

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Speaker 1: is of course the bureaucrat standing in the way of

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Speaker 1: common sense. Paul, appreciate your time.

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Speaker 3: Well, good thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Paul cap kakas Cakers produce. Petty Pratts called

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Speaker 1: in member for the seed of Frome which takes in

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Speaker 1: part of the area. Petty Pratt, good.

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Speaker 4: Morning, Good morning, Matthew, and thank you for taking my call.

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Speaker 4: I want to also thank Paul and Tiny for their contributions.

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Speaker 4: I think your listeners would be learning a lot from

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Speaker 4: the grower's perspective. My experience in sitting down with growers

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Speaker 4: the weeks now has been their frustration around testing. While

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Speaker 4: yesterday's announcement about five hundred work is being laid off

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Speaker 4: was devastating to the industry, still it comes back to

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Speaker 4: testing delays and the pressure needs to be applied by

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Speaker 4: the government and purther on those interstate accreditation labs. That

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Speaker 4: has been one of the contributing factors that we just

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Speaker 4: didn't have the staff trained here to accommodate the volume

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Speaker 4: of tests. So Tony, I think this morning's saying, not

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Speaker 4: only have they walked onto our properties again yesterday for

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Speaker 4: secondary testing, we don't have all of the results back

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Speaker 4: from round one. And the longer the delays, the greater

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Speaker 4: the impact. Growers weeks ago had already missed their Christmas

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Speaker 4: deadline for those Christmas sales. And I've read Matthew that

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Speaker 4: these delays of quarantine are going to extend at least

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Speaker 4: until December. So my plea for your listeners would be

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Speaker 4: keep buying tomatoes, cook them up, whack them in a salad,

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Speaker 4: support your local growers, and we hope that the information

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Speaker 4: hub that is at the Virginia Horticulture Center is accommodating

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Speaker 4: the needs of those workers who present for more information.

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Speaker 4: I was there at nine o'clock yesterday morning, massive you

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Speaker 4: know that, and I was the only government or elected

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Speaker 4: representative on the ground. I think the government the minister

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Speaker 4: needs to make sure that everything is being done for

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Speaker 4: the workforce to ensure that they are receiving a compassionate

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Speaker 4: response when they seek support for job opportunities going forward.

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Speaker 1: All right, Penny Prad, appreciate you calling in. Thank you

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Speaker 1: member for Frome shadow Front Venture