WEBVTT - #143 Osher Günsberg: Finding your true contribution to the world 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.040 I'm my Boris, and this is straight talk. I have 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.760 the career I have because of the brain that I've got, 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:12.240 But this brain that I've got nearly killed me. I 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.880 was a very anxious kid. I remember hiding under the 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:17.600 bed trying to get away from something, but I couldn't 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:19.160 get away from it because it was in my body. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.759 And then sometime around the age of fourteen, I found 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.520 this magical elixir that made everything kind of just kind 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.920 of turned down. You know, at first it was fun, 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:29.960 then it was fun with problems, and it's just problems, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.440 all right, And I couldn't stop the problems. There's this 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.479 loud zoo line, be careful of the direction that you 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.519 were headed. You may just stand up there. And it 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.040 was very clear to me that I know when it ends. 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.199 I was drinking to blackout since yeah, since I was 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.360 fourteen to win thirty six. Wow. Yeah. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.960 When I see you in television, you look like a healthy, 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.080 well put together, you know, like a competent, great performer. 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.040 Well. I work was always the respite, though. When I'm 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:03.720 on camera, God, bliss man, all the anxiety. Everything's quiet. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.200 I'm in it, man. Everything else is hard. That's the 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.679 easy part. Well into straight to a mate, Mark, I'm 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:11.560 thrilled to be here. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.440 First question for you, apart from a mean question for you, mate, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.760 but first question for you is, when I was doing 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.680 my research your name's Andrew, was was where does Asha 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:22.800 come from? 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.320 That's pretty out there, like it is. It's the Hebrew 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.560 word for happiness. Really, yes, and it's quite a long story. 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.440 I'm not I'm not the only person to have changed 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.640 my name as an adult. You're the son of immigrants. 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:39.720 I'm pretty sure that they were known to their colleagues 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.080 by a name that their mother didn't give them. Yeah, totally. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.360 Well, like all my uncle's names, for nothing to do 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:46.360 with their Australian name. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.920 Precisely. Both my parents changed their names better with the 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:55.000 mag The Lennar became Rufe. Yeah. And Michel my dad, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.080 who's eighty today. He was born on d Day. Wow, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.200 that's a heck of a story that one. He Ye 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.280 he was he became Michael. Yet. I'm pretty sure you've 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.560 got kids, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So you've changed your name. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.200 There's I've changed my name. Everyone, every man who's got 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.120 a child has changed their name. There's a name that 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.520 only one person or two people in the world call them, 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.040 and it changes who they are Dad. Yeah, when you 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.200 get called dad, it's a name that only this I'm 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.799 not called pop. Well even better, when you're called this name, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.040 it changes who you are as a person, and it 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:31.959 changes what you're about to, changes how you relate to 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.000 this person, and it changes the values that you have 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.880 and that your actions and values away from that person. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.480 As I'm sure the same thing happened with happened with 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.399 my stepdaughter, right, didn't I did not even my biological 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.400 it happened with my stepdaughter. My actions and my value 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.800 is changed completely once this person came into my life, 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.560 all right, So names are really really important. There was 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:56.679 a I'm not necessarily believing in any kind of interventionist 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:02.320 god or anything, but there was an experience that I 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.320 had with a shaman who said, oh, like, if you 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.560 change a name of change your life. I'm like, I 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.560 can't help, can't hurt. I'll give it a shot. And 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.160 so privately I kind of did it. And there's a 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:14.760 lot to be said. I think it's more of a 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.320 kind of nominated determinism kind of thing. The way I 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:22.440 saw myself changed publicly, it was definitely a delineation between 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:29.400 drinking and using and sobriety and it happened during that period. Yes, absolutely, 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:35.119 and it was an opportunity as the man that mentors 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.960 me through my journey of In our Super Secret Sober 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:42.000 Club when we talk about, you know, things that happened 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.240 when I was still drinking and using and using alcohol 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.240 and things like this, said, well, the good news for 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.000 years you don't have. You get to live the rest 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.400 of your life not being that guy anymore. So putting 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.480 a name on that guy really helped me. Is it 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.240 actually a technique or is it a belief? In other words, 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:57.000 is it. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.360 A technique to do identify yourself from this hell then 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:00.840 brought us? 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.720 When he steps out on stage, people don't so cee 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.320 A L V I N B No, they say s 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:10.520 N double opd O double jer zy. You know who 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.320 you are the way you talk about yourself, the name 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.839 you put upon yourself changes who you are outwardly. I 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.960 think it's an internal thing. Absolutely. Missus Carrington, Miss sorry, 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.400 Miss Carrington left at the end of grade too. See 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.240 him as Carrington, have a good summer, kids, no worries. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:29.719 Three months later, Missus Smith, same lady, different clothes, different aircut, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.960 completely different way of being with us. She got married 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.080 over the summer, so she changed the name and it 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:34.880 changed who she was. 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.400 It's a very interesting as an what you've just talked 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.279 with and is a great example of plasticity neuroplasticity. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.680 In other words, we are. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.320 Who we believe we are, and then we can continually 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.560 affirm in our own mind, throw actions and throw other 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.400 people's actions to us that we are that individual. So 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.240 that becomes our story that if you want to change 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:58.400 who you are, you can. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.240 Yeah, that's what the brain can do. The brain has 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.120 how that every single one of us have, but not 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.840 many of us tap into it. I've been very sick 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:07.599 in my life, so sick that I needed to be 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.760 on two kinds of antipsychotics and NSRI and an SSRI. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.320 So I knew that my brain could change the way 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.880 it felt about things, but at that point my brain 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.040 could not do it all right. I needed those meds 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.479 to loosen those switches up again. But there's the superpower 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.360 that all humans face, so that when we have a healthy, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.880 is healthy, healthier brain, we can choose how we feel 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.360 about something. We decide. No one, no one makes you 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.600 feel happy or sad. You're the one that chooses that. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:36.640 You may not realize you're choosing it. It may be based 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.520 upon something that happened to you fifty years ago, but 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.160 ultimately you decide it and you can decide to do 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.960 something else about it if you take the time to 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.960 investigate it. And it starts with two super powerful words. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:53.039 I'm noticing. I'm noticing my breath quicknick, I'm noticing my 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.279 tummy feels a bit strange, and noticing my hands are Oh, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.200 I'm getting angry. Ah, I'll take a moment here. Don't 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.239 want to do or say something that I don't because 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.520 last time this happened, I said something or did something 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.640 that I made a lot of problems. So it just 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.880 starts with noticing, just takes It's like doing burpies for 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.040 your brain, all right, just noticing. Like everyone fucking hates burpies, man, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.479 you know what, because they're fucking good. It's the reason 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:18.960 you see nobody on the rowing machine at the gym 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:20.880 because it's the fucking hardest thing in there and it'll 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.400 do everything in twenty minutes. You're fucked. Yeah, same with this, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.520 Like I'm noticing. That's literally like doing burpies for your brain. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.280 It's been a minute, Just a minute, put a time 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.360 on your phone and just notice everything you can hear, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.479 and then start to notice everything you can feel in 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.240 your body, your socks and your feet, your shirt on 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.320 your back, each behind your ear, the weird little thing 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.039 you got on your knee from playing touch on the weekend, 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.120 whatever it is. Just what you're doing is you're getting 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.719 your brain to get used to having the observing mind 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.919 come into the playing game rather than just the thinking mind. 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.400 That's just reactionary the thinking mind. The thinking mind is 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.680 like I used to have a yellow lab. Shees white lab. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.159 She's the best thing ever. When she and a frisbee 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.919 got together, was brilliant, all right. The thinking mind is 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.080 my old lab chasing that frisbee. The observing mind is 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.120 sitting on a park bench watching that lab chase the 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.200 frisbe on to a freeway. All right. But the thinking 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.440 mind cannot see that chasing the frisbee right now is 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.760 not a good idea. But the observing mind can. The 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.720 observing mind go oh wait and bring it back. And 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.040 getting our observing mind into the game. That takes practice, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.880 takes work, But once you start getting used to it, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.560 once becoming more automatic, that can really really change things 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:32.480 for you. That's mad. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.880 I'm an often too about the O being an observer 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.120 or being a participant, and you know we're going to 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.920 do both, but too often when we're overly participating, we 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.720 forget to observe. And you know, that's when issues arise 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.400 with things drop down between the cracks because we forget 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.680 about we forget to do the broader strategic things because 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.200 we're just doing tactical things like we're going to work 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.240 every day, getting up every day, going to work every day, 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.920 kissing someone weo'red by patting the dog, giving the key 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.680 is a hard go to work, work, work, work, get home, 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.440 have you dinner, go to bed, blah blah, and we 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:07.840 forget about making an observation. Wait a minute, what the 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.520 hell am I doing here? What's what's what's actually my 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.160 strategy around all this? And I wouldn't mind parking that 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:15.720 for a bit, and just I'll come back to because 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:16.960 I want to ask you a question. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.480 You were born in England? Was yep? How long were 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:21.400 you did you live in England? 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:22.080 Baby? 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.920 Yeah? So like three months? Four months? So he came 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.120 to a straight straight after that. Yeah, yeah, okay, So 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.240 in Australia were brought up, which brought up in which 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.240 part of us a straight? I did the well, the 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.600 sand pit kind of stuff in Adelaide and then everything 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:41.040 else in Brisbane. Right, So, at what point did you realize. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.800 That you would have a well that you wanted in 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.720 fact a career in media or was that not something 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:48.559 you did earlier on? 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:59.640 I was a very anxious kid, which means what like crowds, 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:04.199 like aren't out socializing everything, like real like big anxiety 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.320 and like big feelings in my body, feelings I couldn't 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.400 escape from. I remember hiding under the bed trying to 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.079 get away from something, but I couldn't get away from 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.000 it because it was in my body. You know, this feeling, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.120 this horrible feeling was in my body my time. I 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.000 got to Bruis where my parents went to see like 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.120 what's going on in the fire. My parents are both doctors, 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.199 so they understand someone's up here beyond their expertise, so 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.079 they sent me to as what's going on with a 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:28.920 five year old that you sent them to a psychiatrist 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:30.800 like that, Well, that's what was happening. It was like 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.400 probably the one there. It was nineteen seventy nine, and 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.599 there was this fear and this kind of anxiety that 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.520 was just with me everywhere, And I guess, like, I'm 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.199 not alone in doing this. It's semmed from a lack 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.319 of I think, looking back at as an adult, a 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.840 lack of patrol over a situation, and later on as 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.400 I got when I got diagnosed with social anxiety, one 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.720 of the symptoms was being big, being really big, because 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.880 if I'm terrified of your thought about me, at least 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:02.040 I want to try and be in control of your 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.360 thoughts about me, so I'll give you at least something 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.880 quite large to react to. Therefore I know what you're 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:09.880 reacting to, rather than just having to deal with what 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.520 you might be as in a performance, I would talk 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.400 loudly and elevators and I would make it. I was, yeah, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.800 that was like German stuff. I was a child. It's 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.680 just like big. I was about the age of eight 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:27.080 when I went to a like a like I said, 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.040 I don't believe it. An individual is gone. Probably a 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:30.439 lot of it has to do with the amount of 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.440 it that was rammed down my throat at the schooling 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.920 that I had, and it certainly didn't make sense to 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:38.520 me then makes less now, But every Friday, we would 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.080 have a play that each class would take a turn 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.840 to make a play or a sketch or something about 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.559 I don't know, picking up rubbish at the schoolyard or 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.760 you know, whatever you do, don't masturbate A cheese is 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.640 always watching like that kind of school, right, And so 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:53.920 I walk out on stage. It was our turn. I 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.720 walk out on stage and there's just like three hundred 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.719 promocycool kids, just like cooy car black like that. And 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.720 the line was something along the lines of don't commute 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.800 usin poured it in the bin something like that. It 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.280 was about picking up r wish it was a break. 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.520 And then I laugh And that was like the first 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.680 high that I was like, ah, because all this feeling 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.520 only happened when I was on stage. The reaction of 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.840 that response only just unleashed the thing in me, all 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.320 the anxiety. Everything just looked quiet. It was like, oh, 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.920 this is amazing, because what am I. I'm in control here, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.520 I'm talking. You're all quite amazing. I know what happens next. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.000 This is brilliant. And so I kind of chased that. 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.640 So my coping mechanism kind of became my career. But 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.760 to be able to be on stage. Music was the 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.000 thing for me, so singing and playing you had to 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.400 have some level of proficiency. So I did quite dedicate 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:53.199 myself to at least the illusion of proficiency, but I did. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.320 I always got something out of connecting with people, connecting 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.160 with an audience. There was just really something about that, 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.000 whether it be the non verbal communication of music or 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.319 through a song, or just any time that I was 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.840 able to have this collective experience with people on the controller. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.839 At the time, yes, it was, and I had a 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:19.000 very strange relationship to my self worth around that. In sobriety, 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.360 it's very different now. I'm going to go back before 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.200 sobriety though, So I'd imagine then if you're a young. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.199 Man and you're particularly if you're a teenage or late 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.599 teens or early twenties or something, and you all of 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.480 a sudden have a realization that's what you've been doing 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:36.840 the whole time, you know, Like. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.920 If I didn't realize that until I got better to do, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.000 then why did you get sick? What was what was 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.040 the cause of seeing this was not a realization, it 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.800 kind of it was just a clearly we come out 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.560 fifty percent, you know, we don't just look like both 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.640 my parents were refugees at one point. You know, into 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.000 generational trauma is a real thing. We come out fifty 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:04.520 percent all of it, generally, the sciences that we're fifty 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.800 percent what our parents give us as far as our 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.360 jumpiness or whatever, and we're fifty percent what we then 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.560 experience or happened in our lives. So, you know, I've 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.920 got two people who it was twenty four years apart, 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.840 the very same Russians you know, kicked in their doors 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.319 and they had to get out of there. And so 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.079 there are two people who went through life going on 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.240 under the authorities in a state can come and take 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.800 everything away, and that's kind of how they went through life. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.600 And they're not alone in our country of people who've 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.400 had that experience where in the state turns against them. 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.600 So they were, you know, mindful and weary, and they 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.679 had a way of being and that kind of rubs 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.920 off on you know. My father lost family in the Holocaust, 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.679 and you know, so there was this thing that was 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.839 very fucking real for both of my folks, and it's 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:55.959 hard to not pass that on to your kids. You know, 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.200 my mum was on the road for just walked from 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.480 Lithuanialy down to Germany at one point, and it's hard 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.760 to not have those things pass on vicariously to you 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.360 to your children, So I can only speak to myself. 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.920 It was that was a part of it. There was 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.319 always this anxiety, always a thing. And then sometime around 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:20.880 the age of fourteen, I found this magical elixir that 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.680 made everything kind of just kind of turned down a 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.720 little bit, and it was I think it was power, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:32.080 was bitter power, sorrybody, Wally Lewis, there was a time 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:33.280 where it was Alan Bond's beer. 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.200 Alan Bonder had power, he sure fucking did, totally, and 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.640 then Wally was one of the big promoters of it. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.160 Yeah, well truly they edited the sorry Bondie out at 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.520 some point. I think you must have done softly. How's 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.760 that fucking great line? You only get white Alan Bond 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.840 in your life, and I've had him twice. Fucking carry 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.360 pack a Line's amazing. It's not so similar to your 0:14:54.440 --> 0:15:01.280 scenario with the exactly great man. It's like, I'm so 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.240 stoked for you. That happened anyway, So yeah, it was that, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.400 and then I had this beer, and then ah, everything 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.960 kind of got a little bit quieter, quite a lot quieter. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.520 And I you know, if I'm holding up a glass 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.160 for people who are listening, the glass is half literally, 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.240 this is great, the glass is half full. I'm like, ah, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.280 it's been quiet because I've drunk this much. I reckon 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:23.840 by the time I get down to that on the 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.440 next one, it'll be a whole lot better. But I 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.880 never got there. Never You never drank much more? Oh no, no, no, 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.160 I kept going yeah when that was always the lie, Yeah, 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.440 that it'll be better, yeah, when you're on the next one. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:37.880 But did it get better when you had some more? 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.000 I mean initially, like like, so, what's your reaction if 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.320 you drank too much? But what who would I should become? 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.480 I have a I have an allergy to alcohol. If 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.000 I drink, I break out and fun with side effects 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:58.080 include divorce, financial ruin, Chris was really other things? Yeah, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:02.000 oh yeah, and you like how bad does it get there? Like, look, 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.400 I have so essentially like my stepdaughter she's got a 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.360 peanut allergy. Thankfully it's not anaphylactics anaphylactic. But there's a 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.720 kid at my younger stay care that does right EpiPens 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.000 at arms reach like defibrillators at a gym, right, just everywhere. Right, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:22.080 And if your grandkids, we'll go into a party and 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.640 that had peanut butter on their fingers or hands, and 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.480 you know, it's like, we've got to wash your hands, mate, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.440 because you know little Jimy's got. You would never dream 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.680 anything a molecule that shit anywhere near a toddle because 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.040 it could kill them. Similarly, if a molecule of alcohol 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.840 gets into my body, I have an allergic reaction. I 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.880 can no longer decide how much good amount to drink, 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.280 and my sense of right and wrong changes, A sense 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.680 of judgments goes, my sense of right and wrong, my 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:52.320 moral senses change, and only once that and I cannot 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.320 stop that reaction once it start. It's like literally speaking 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.960 to someone who's I don't know, breaking out in hives. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.480 Can you please stop breaking out and welts your skin 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.720 from contact with a cat or something like. They can't 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.920 stop their body doing that. Similarly, I can't stop it 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.120 once it starts, so not going near it is really 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.159 really important. And only once the reaction wears off, sometimes 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.239 twelve hours later, sometimes you know, the next afternoon, two 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.600 and afternoons later. I turned around like, who the fuck 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.520 said that? Who did that? Oh? Fuck? It was me? 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.280 And I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't stop it. And 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.720 it became very very clear that every day started to 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.720 become the same. I was no longer in I was 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.320 no longer able to make the choice. The choices were 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.080 now being made for me. The days were just becoming 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.399 very very repetitive. That the drinking was getting earlier, and 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.840 you do it every day? Oh yeah, yeah by the end, Yeah, 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:48.520 it had been years since I could remember the last 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.600 age and drink, And the days just kept getting the same, 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.080 and the drinking was getting earlier, and it was getting worse. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.200 And no matter which way I tried, like, oh, I 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.600 started with beer and ended with tequila. This time I'll 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.359 start at to quiller. It ended with be it no, no, no, 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.600 the same thing happened no matter what, no matter which 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.800 way I tried to play it. Oh, I don't drink 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.199 beer anymore. I buy sixty dollar bottles of Read, up 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.840 by one hundred dollar bottles Read because I'm a fucking connoisseur. No, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.600 I'm just a fucking drunk, drunk man. And I couldn't 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.440 stop it. And I was lucky really lucky. I tried 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.119 to stop a bunch of times, like why did you 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:25.720 try to stop? Did you know? Because I could see 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.159 it was like I was unable to control it. And 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.120 I could tell that, you know, at first it was fun, 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.119 then it was fun with problems, and then it's just problems, 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.199 all right. And I couldn't stop the problems. It couldn't 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.800 once the drinking started, I couldn't it just the next 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.200 day was worse, and then everything's good, idea after half 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.399 a six packs. So all kinds of other things went 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.160 in concert with that, and the people I was hanging 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:50.800 with and the things I was doing, and the choice 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.480 I was making was just like, this is what the 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.480 fuck am I doing here? And I was living in 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.720 America at the time, and I could see that, you know, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.480 it was prescription painkillers got involved, and Benzo's all you 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.240 got there was a bad sleep. Yeah, it was a 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.359 bad time. And I'd had friends who had died because 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.280 that's I hammered. They forget that they've already taken their 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.720 you know, Benzo, and then they go and take another 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.119 d and then that's it. See you and never wake up. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.639 And I tried it, Like I said, I tried a 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.840 bunch of times to stop. I'd maybe get four weeks, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.360 six weeks up. They couldn't do it. And then there's 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.800 this loutsu line. Be careful of the direction that you 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:31.840 were headed. You may just stand up there. And it 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.160 was very clear to me that I know where this ends. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.080 This ends with me in prison, This ends with me 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.960 losing everything, This ends with me dead. You know, I 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.960 got one out of three. I managed. I got out 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.040 losing everything, And it's probably the best option out of 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.080 all of them. Bro. I was so fucking lucky. Man, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.399 I got so lucky. What was what would be the. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.040 Can you have a memory of what was the lowest point? 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.920 I mean, can you remember the streets of King's Cross 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:01.399 on your own? 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.720 Oh? Man? It was just it was the same, just, 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.879 you know, just being a blorous, belligerent person and vomiting 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.320 on myself, humiliating the people I'm with, not knowing why 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.000 people were upset at me. The next day, you know, 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.320 blacking out. I was drinking to blackout since yeah, since 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:22.960