1
00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,040
Speaker 1: Welcome to this special episode of Headgame.

2
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm at Milton.

3
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: Survival is our most primal instinct, but it's not always easy.

4
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 1: Today we look back at the incredible stories of three

5
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,600
Speaker 1: people who have survived and thrived against the odds. Shortly,

6
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,240
Speaker 1: what journalist Jamila Risby thought towards a pregnancy turned out

7
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 1: to be something far more sinister happening within our body.

8
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,839
Speaker 1: But first, a sailing trip to exotic destinations sounds like

9
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 1: a dream for most people, but for Suzanne Haywood, her

10
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,240
Speaker 1: father's maritime pilgrimage when she was just seven years old

11
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,199
Speaker 1: quickly became a nightmare.

12
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,480
Speaker 3: So what happened was we set out from the UK

13
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 3: and sailed down to South America. And just to give

14
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 3: people a bit of context, that takes about five or

15
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 3: six weeks at sea. It's a very long way. And

16
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 3: after that first very difficult week which I described, actually

17
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 3: think got a bit better. Eventually my mother reappeared. After

18
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,520
Speaker 3: about three or four days, the weather got a bit

19
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 3: better and we saw a whale, we saw flying fish.

20
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 3: You know, there are beautiful things about being at sea.

21
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 3: It got pretty tricky as we had as we got

22
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,479
Speaker 3: close to South America, because we started to run out

23
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,080
Speaker 3: of food, so that was tough. Then we set sail

24
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,920
Speaker 3: from South America to South Africa, and that was another

25
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 3: difficult crossing, partly because we lost our compass part way through.

26
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 3: It broke, so we were a danger of circling around

27
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,720
Speaker 3: and around around the South Atlantic. And I should also

28
00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,400
Speaker 3: explain that we were sailing the wrong way around the world.

29
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 3: So my father not only was he sailing a boat

30
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,080
Speaker 3: that was not designed to go around the world, but

31
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 3: he'd also chosen to go the most difficult way around

32
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,920
Speaker 3: the world. So most people who sail around the world,

33
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 3: they sail from east to west, and if you sail

34
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 3: east to west, you go kind of near the equator

35
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,240
Speaker 3: and the windsor behind you. But because my father had

36
00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 3: chosen to follow Captain Cook's the voyage, Captain Cook went

37
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 3: the other way. He went from west to east, and

38
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,160
Speaker 3: to go west to east you have to go very

39
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 3: far south to catch the winds. So that was why

40
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 3: we went all the way down to South America and

41
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 3: then across the Southern Atlantic Ocean to South Africa. And

42
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,239
Speaker 3: then we set sail across the most dangerous ocean in

43
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,919
Speaker 3: the world, which is the Southern Indian Ocean. From South

44
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 3: Africa to Australia, and that is a huge ocean. And

45
00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,679
Speaker 3: not only is it a huge ocean, but it's a

46
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 3: huge ocean with almost nothing in it. I mean, it's

47
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,640
Speaker 3: a very very empty ocean. And I should say that

48
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,519
Speaker 3: by that point on board, you have myself, I'm still seven,

49
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 3: my brother who's six, my mother who's still getting very

50
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,239
Speaker 3: badly seasick and hate sailing. My father and my parents

51
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 3: are falling out with all of our original crew, and

52
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,960
Speaker 3: the new crew are two guys who just happened to

53
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 3: come down to the wharf just before we set sail

54
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 3: from South Africa and they never sailed before.

55
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,799
Speaker 1: Take me to the storm. So this is quite bad.

56
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 1: Take me back to when you realized that it was.

57
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: It was seriously bad. That something is you know, it's

58
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 1: something you know, a state of emergency basically was happening

59
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 1: on the ship.

60
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 3: Well, I mean we went from what I was getting

61
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,919
Speaker 3: used to, which was being in a storm and the

62
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,160
Speaker 3: boat being on a big heel and kind of going

63
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 3: up and down through the waves to a position where

64
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,920
Speaker 3: the waves outside were enormous and I now know the

65
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 3: waves outside were thirty forty feet high and the boat

66
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 3: was surfing down the waves and then coming up, and

67
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 3: of course I'm experiencing this as a little kid down below,

68
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 3: and what you can feel is the boat kind of

69
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 3: tipping forward and then tipping backwards, and then at the

70
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 3: top of the wave kind of keeling over and kind

71
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 3: of dropping down. And you can also see it in

72
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 3: the kind of eyes of the kind of adults as

73
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 3: they come downstairs. People were getting very frightened about the

74
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 3: situation that we were in and the fear that if

75
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 3: the boat, if we lost control of the boat, she

76
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 3: could be flipped over by a wave. This went on

77
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 3: for about two days, just kind of holding on basically

78
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 3: down below. Eventually what happened was a huge wave came

79
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 3: up behind the boat. My father has described several ways,

80
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 3: probably combined together. They broke over the stone the back

81
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 3: of the boat, smashed through the deck of the boat,

82
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 3: and created a huge hole in the deck above. The

83
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,919
Speaker 3: table went out through the side of the hole. I

84
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 3: was standing down below at the time. My mother had

85
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 3: just come down below, and we hadn't eaten for some time,

86
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 3: so she told me to come and help her try

87
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,599
Speaker 3: to get some food. So I was standing next to

88
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 3: her in the galley and I was picked in the

89
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,600
Speaker 3: galley of the kitchen, and I was picked up and

90
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 3: thrown against the ceiling of the cabin, fractured my skull,

91
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,599
Speaker 3: broke my nose thrown against the kind of wall of

92
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,160
Speaker 3: the cab and I ended up unconscious on the floor

93
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 3: of the cabin. And the boat almost sank. I mean,

94
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 3: the boat started filling up with water, because as you

95
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 3: can imagine, you've got a big hole in the decks.

96
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,480
Speaker 3: Every further wave that hits the boat just kind of

97
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 3: funnels down below, and the boat is filling up with water.

98
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I come to and I find myself in

99
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 3: a bunk. Somebody's shoved me in a bunk in one

100
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 3: of the forward cabins, and I have a huge lump

101
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 3: on my forehead which is growing and growing. It's extremely painful.

102
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 3: We were incredibly lucky because we would not have stayed

103
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 3: afloat long enough to get to Australia, and the boat

104
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,919
Speaker 3: was so weak we couldn't have gone We couldn't have

105
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,920
Speaker 3: turned around and gone back into the wind. We were

106
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 3: too the boat was too weak to do that. We

107
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 3: were very lucky to stumble across a tiny island called

108
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 3: our l Amsterdam, which is in the middle of the

109
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 3: Indian Ocean, and on that island is a small base.

110
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:58,880
Speaker 3: And I describe all of this a lot more on

111
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 3: the book, because that is a very mysterious place. It's

112
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 3: a very strange place. But it did have a little

113
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 3: tiny doctors. It had a doctor and a little tiny

114
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 3: surgery there, and he operated on my head and saved

115
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,040
Speaker 3: my life because otherwise, he told me, and i've contact

116
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,480
Speaker 3: I contacted him when I was writing, I would have

117
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 3: ended up with brain damage. Yeah, I had a huge

118
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 3: swelling on my head which he had to kind of

119
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 3: sort out, but unfortunately had to do that without any anesthetic,

120
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,920
Speaker 3: because you can imagine on a tiny island in the

121
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 3: middle of the Indian Ocean, there was no general anesthetic.

122
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 1: And you can't what was the island used for.

123
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,680
Speaker 3: Well, as I said, it's a bit of a mysterious place.

124
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: I can't tell you.

125
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 3: It has a small has a small French quasi military

126
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 3: scientific base on it. We were told not to walk

127
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 3: around the island without supervision. They were certainly doing lots

128
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 3: of scientific experiments, sending up kind of weather balloons and

129
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 3: things like that, but frankly, we weren't going to ask

130
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,560
Speaker 3: any questions had we not found the island, we would

131
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,599
Speaker 3: have we would have died. And I owe my life

132
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 3: to this doctor, doctor Sennelart, who operated on me seven

133
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 3: operations on my head and saved my life because otherwise

134
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 3: that the pressure from this swelling would have caused god

135
00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 3: of brain damage over.

136
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 1: What period of time, How long would you end up saying?

137
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 3: Therefore, so we end up being on the island I

138
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 3: think for about six or seven weeks with them.

139
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,920
Speaker 1: They fed you, they gave you water, they did they did,

140
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 1: so they literally saved your lives.

141
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 3: They did save our lives. They did save our lives.

142
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 3: And of course, being a French base, when these scientists

143
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 3: were dropped on this island and they would have a

144
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 3: kind of changeover every year of the scientists they were,

145
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 3: they were left with plenty of nice French cheese, nice

146
00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,239
Speaker 3: French wine, so we ate very well. Though I also

147
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 3: remember at one point they tried to feed us wild cats,

148
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 3: which my mother and I refused to refuse to eat.

149
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 3: I mean, conditions on this island were pretty basic, but

150
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 3: I had these head operations, and my mother refused to

151
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 3: come in for these operations because she doesn't like the

152
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 3: sight of blood. So I had them on my own,

153
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 3: and of course I was conscious. So now I'm a

154
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 3: seven year old kid, I've been through the storm, I'm

155
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 3: now frightened at the ocean, and I've had this very

156
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 3: traumatic experience of these head operations. So I'm beginning to

157
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 3: question whether everything my father has told me about this

158
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 3: voyage is really correct.

159
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,679
Speaker 1: The Benny drops his life.

160
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 3: This is not quite what I've been kind of told.

161
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: Right, Wow, So I can only imagine. And this is

162
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 1: why it's so fascinating to ultimately shipwrecked let us call

163
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,840
Speaker 1: it wrecked on this island. Always you're getting this medical attention,

164
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 1: and is is your father trying to fix the boat?

165
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:09,840
Speaker 1: What's happening with the boat?

166
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,560
Speaker 3: So my dad is trying to patch up the boat

167
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 3: enough to get it to Australia. I mean there were

168
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,360
Speaker 3: very limited facilities on this island. I mean it's basically

169
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 3: a volcanic attoll in the middle of the Indian Ocean,

170
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 3: so there's no shipyard or anything like that. But he

171
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 3: hammered metal across the holes in the boat. And then

172
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,440
Speaker 3: the French government and the British government basically said that

173
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 3: my mother and my brother and I were not allow

174
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,600
Speaker 3: back on board because it was too dangerous. If my

175
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 3: father wanted to put his own life at risk, that

176
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 3: was his choice. So eventually he set sail with these

177
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 3: two poor novice crew, Larry and Herbie, off to Australia,

178
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,199
Speaker 3: leaving my mother and my brother and I on the island,

179
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,640
Speaker 3: and we were eventually kind of rescued from the island

180
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,480
Speaker 3: by a passing container ship that picked us up and

181
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,240
Speaker 3: took us to Melbourne. We got to Melbourne, we met

182
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 3: my dad back at Fremantle. We flew from Melbourne to

183
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 3: Fremantle and we spent almost a year in Fremantle repairing

184
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,199
Speaker 3: the boat. And then of course my dad is insistent

185
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:18,559
Speaker 3: that we're going to keep sailing.

186
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 1: So when you get back on the boat, how long

187
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,360
Speaker 1: is it until you crave being you know, back to

188
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: being a normal kid.

189
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 2: Here.

190
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,960
Speaker 3: After that year in Fremantle, we kept sailing, you know,

191
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 3: notionally or baguely, following Captain Cook all the way you know,

192
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,320
Speaker 3: around Australia, New Zealand, up the South Pacific to Hawaii.

193
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,280
Speaker 3: And by that point we've been sailing for four years.

194
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 3: It took Captain Cook three years, took us four years

195
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 3: because of the one year after the shipwreck and that

196
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 3: was kind of the end of the Captain Cook's third

197
00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,200
Speaker 3: voyage because he was killed in Hawaii, and so that

198
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,240
Speaker 3: should have been the end of our voyage, and we

199
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 3: were do to come back then through the Panama CA

200
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,560
Speaker 3: now back to the UK, and everything was going to

201
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 3: go back to normal. But I began to realize in

202
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,040
Speaker 3: Hawaii that my father was changing his mind. He didn't

203
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,440
Speaker 3: want to come back anymore, and he delayed and delayed

204
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,480
Speaker 3: and delayed in Hawaii, and eventually in Hawaii he said, right,

205
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 3: we're going to have a vote on what we do,

206
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 3: and we're either going to go home going east through

207
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,680
Speaker 3: the Panama can now, or we're going to turn west

208
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 3: and we're going to go back down the Pacific again

209
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 3: and keep sailing, which would be a wonderful thing, wouldn't it.

210
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,839
Speaker 3: It was very clear where his mind was. I did

211
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 3: not want to keep sailing. I mean, by that point,

212
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 3: I was now so we've been at sea four years,

213
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 3: so I'm now eleven. I don't have any friends on

214
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 3: this boat because it's just us. I'm not going to school,

215
00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 3: so I wanted to come home. You know, this was

216
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 3: a you know, the kind of atmosphere on board was

217
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,160
Speaker 3: increasingly kind of unpleasant. We had no money, no friends,

218
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 3: So we had a vote, and my father had always

219
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,439
Speaker 3: said that these votes were binding, you know, he'd always

220
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 3: had this kind of mythology around the voyage. One mythology

221
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,440
Speaker 3: was this was a big, noble thing that we were doing.

222
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 3: The other mythology was we were all doing this together,

223
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 3: and we'd all chosen to do it together. Now, of

224
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 3: course I hadn't said no at the start, but I've

225
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,800
Speaker 3: been seven, I mean, and I hadn't even said no

226
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,560
Speaker 3: when we kept sailing in Australia, but I mean, i'd

227
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,439
Speaker 3: still only been kind of eight. But this time I'm eleven, twelve,

228
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,560
Speaker 3: I say no, I want to come home. I vote

229
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 3: against going on, and my brother votes to come home

230
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 3: as well, and my parents inevitably vote to keep sailing.

231
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 3: And then my father does something that changes everything, which

232
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 3: is he says, this isn't a democracy. I have the

233
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 3: casting vote, and we're going to keep sailing. And at

234
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 3: that moment everything changes because this is no longer a choice.

235
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 3: I'm trapped on this boat. I'm here against my will.

236
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 3: I have no choice anymore. I mean, I'm not sure

237
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,840
Speaker 3: I had a choice before. It's just at that moment

238
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,199
Speaker 3: it crystallized that I had no choice. And then eventually,

239
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 3: when I was sixteen and my brother was fifteen, so

240
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 3: we're now nine years of sailing, my parents leave us

241
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 3: in New Zealand. They want my brother to go to

242
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,679
Speaker 3: school because they're worried about his education, as my father

243
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 3: at one point tells me, you know, he's a boy,

244
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,120
Speaker 3: so he'll have to support a family one day. So

245
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,200
Speaker 3: I'm left to look after my brother in New Zealand,

246
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,560
Speaker 3: which was always my role as the girl, and they

247
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 3: keep sailing, they leave us behind. I'm on a temporary visa.

248
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 3: They keep on trying to deport me, and we're just

249
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 3: surviving in a very basic it's called a batch in

250
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 3: New Zealand, a kind of base, kind of holiday home.

251
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 3: But I keep on studying. And I then start to

252
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 3: write every university I've heard of in the world asking

253
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 3: if they will consider me, and most of them write

254
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,959
Speaker 3: back and say no, you know. They write back and say,

255
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 3: you know, sorry, but you know this is You're just

256
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 3: too weird. You're just too weird. And then amazingly Oxford

257
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 3: University wrote back and they said, rant us a couple

258
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 3: of essays and we'll think about it. And so I

259
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 3: wrote them a couple of essays. I wanted to study zoology,

260
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 3: by the way, inspired by all the animals that we'd

261
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 3: seen on the boat. And they wrote back and said,

262
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,080
Speaker 3: if you can get to the UK, we'll interview you.

263
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 3: So I went out and I picked kiwi fruit, which,

264
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 3: by the way, is a very unpleasant job, but it

265
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 3: is a job that you can do without a visa

266
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 3: in New Zealand. And that got me enough money for

267
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 3: a one way ticket and I got on a plane

268
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,880
Speaker 3: and came back to the UK for that interview. And

269
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,760
Speaker 3: I now look back and I say, I think there

270
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 3: wasn't really a plan B. I had a kind of

271
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 3: Plan A. There was no Plan B. What was I

272
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 3: going to do if I didn't get in? But amazingly

273
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 3: they did let me in, and that completely turned around

274
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 3: my life.

275
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,320
Speaker 1: When Matthew Lewis stepped onto a South African fishing boat

276
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, he was under no illusions this

277
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: would be no holiday. The university graduate had been hired

278
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 1: as an observer whilst the crew fished deep in the

279
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean, but he never anticipated having to abandon a

280
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: ship in the middle of a desolate ocean in freezing conditions.

281
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 4: And I looked around and saw life jackets being thrown

282
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 4: across the factory, and I.

283
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 1: Thought, Umbels, this is this is probable, this is things

284
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 1: have just got serious right now, right.

285
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 2: And where's mine?

286
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 4: You know, there weren't enough life checkets had been passed down,

287
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 4: so there wasn't one for me. And I said to Glen, like,

288
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 4: you know, we need to get out of here now.

289
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 4: So we went out and the corridor was on the boat,

290
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 4: on the side of the boat that was lower, so

291
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 4: the escape corrider was on the side of the boat

292
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 4: you needed to go along was basically deep in water.

293
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 4: So we had to climb up on a bench and

294
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 4: walk along the water, hitting the fluorescent lights at the

295
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 4: top up on the ceiling, and they were flickering and spluttering.

296
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 4: But that was the point when we left the factory,

297
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 4: you know, there was at that point there were fewer

298
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 4: probably I suppose by that point fewer than six of

299
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 4: us left in the factory out of thirty eight. I

300
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 4: hadn't quite clicked that everybody else had gone. And when

301
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 4: we got out into the rest of the boat, you

302
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 4: suddenly realized what angle you're at, because things like the

303
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 4: curtains in the cabins, you know, they're hanging away from

304
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 4: the wall, and the staircase to get up to my

305
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 4: cabin was suddenly very easy because it was not sloping

306
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 4: as much because of the tilt of the boat. And

307
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 4: I stuck my head out on deck and there's everybody

308
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 4: else there lined up with all their oil skins on,

309
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 4: life jackets on. I said to Trevor, what's happening. Are

310
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,359
Speaker 4: we abandoned it or what? He said, Yeah, yeah, we're going.

311
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,680
Speaker 1: Oh you didn't even know that they were going through

312
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: the emergency besieges of abandoning ship.

313
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,919
Speaker 4: There was no emergency procedure. They just the decision had

314
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,239
Speaker 4: been made, but there was no life jacket yet. You know,

315
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 4: there was a there was a tunnel public announcement system

316
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,159
Speaker 4: on the boat, but it hadn't been used. There had

317
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,320
Speaker 4: been no claques or anything like that to tell us

318
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,680
Speaker 4: to abandon ship. It had just been the last minute decision.

319
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 4: And when the boat had rolled to the side and

320
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,120
Speaker 4: wasn't coming back up, I you know, we were right

321
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 4: to get out of there. It was just how you know,

322
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 4: like the big waves were rolling in hitting the side

323
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,359
Speaker 4: of the boat. The wind was basically tearing the swells apart,

324
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 4: so you had phones streaking down the side of the swells,

325
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,480
Speaker 4: and I, you know, at that point, I remember looking

326
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 4: out onto this like gray heaving seas, just being torn

327
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 4: apart by the wind and just thinking, what the hell

328
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 4: are we going to do now? You know, we are

329
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 4: in the middle of nowhere, like South Georgia is a

330
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 4: remote island, but we were I know, it was one

331
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 4: hundred and something miles off of the off of the land.

332
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 4: The nearest rock was twenty something miles away, and I

333
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 4: didn't even know that was actually a rock sticking out

334
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 4: of them, just cold showed rocks. But I didn't know

335
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 4: if it was a natural rock or off. We were

336
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 4: middle of nowhere, didn't know where the nearest boat was.

337
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 4: You know, you look out and there's it was a storm.

338
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 4: There's like there's storm. There's snow showers blowing through. It's

339
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 4: like snow flurries blowing through. The wind is just screaming.

340
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 4: And then on the sheltered side of the boat where

341
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 4: the crew were actually it felt right. You could actually

342
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 4: have a conversation and you said about you know, them

343
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,400
Speaker 4: preparing to abandon shit. But basically the crew were lined

344
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 4: up there, their life jackets on I managed to find

345
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 4: a life jacket. They somebody had knocked the life jackets

346
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 4: were kept in a locked cupboard to stop them from

347
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 4: being stolen, and somebody had knocked the lock off with

348
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,639
Speaker 4: an axe because nobody could find the key, and so

349
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 4: they're all spilled out on the floor of ane one

350
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 4: of those and I just had this moment when I thought, right,

351
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 4: one moment, I ducked into my cabin and just tried

352
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 4: to calm myself down because I could feel like, you know,

353
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 4: this situation of panic and right, yeah, And I thought,

354
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 4: I need my suit, my deck suit is my best chance.

355
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 4: And then I thought there have been stories that if

356
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,680
Speaker 4: we had to abandon ship that the crew would fight

357
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 4: with knives for a place on a raft and I thought, oh,

358
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 4: maybe they'll take try and take it off me.

359
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: Do I to get it? No, it's my best chance.

360
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 2: I'll grab that.

361
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: So this was going through your head like Survival of

362
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: the Fittest basically.

363
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because Danny had sort of warned me about that.

364
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 4: There have been a situation just before that when I

365
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 4: suppose one of the moments when I really knew that

366
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 4: the things were hit in the fan was was We've

367
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 4: been down in the factory when this whole thing with

368
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 4: the pumps had happened, and Darny had said to me, Matt,

369
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 4: have you got a knife. I said, yeah, yeah, sure

370
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 4: and handed him a big fillt in knife and he

371
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 4: stabbed it in the wooden block next to him and

372
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 4: said there, now we're ready. And I and it was

373
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 4: him saying, you know, there's a.

374
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 2: Risk of us having to do this, something's going to happen. Yeah.

375
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 4: I was not ready for that, so I decided I was,

376
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 4: you know, and actually you know, I decided I was

377
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 4: going to go and get my deck suit. Nearly got

378
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 4: stuck in the in the chimney stack trying to get it,

379
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 4: which is ridiculous, but I was stuck in my in

380
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 4: my deck suit. So now I'm wearing lots of layers.

381
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 4: Got this this this deck suit best chance. And we

382
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 4: we then went to launch the life rafts and I'd

383
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 4: never launched the life raft before.

384
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 2: I hadn't done any sort of survival training like that.

385
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 4: Shakim next to me experienced, you know, twenty five years

386
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 4: at sea Portuguese and he hadn't either. So we cut

387
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 4: the lines that hold the canister and then released it,

388
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 4: and the first one we rolled into the water, hit

389
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,400
Speaker 4: the water and then nothing happened. Somebody pulled the rope

390
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 4: on it was supposed to make it discharge an inflate,

391
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 4: and nothing happened. That's just a big fiberglass cap. You're

392
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 4: floating there with.

393
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: Forward mad or worse mate, And how are you communicating?

394
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: Do you do you feel the hostility of its every

395
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: man for himself or are you actually coming together you communicating,

396
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: are you working as a team or is it literally

397
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: what you were joking about is actually transpiring right now?

398
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: It's like every every man for himself.

399
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 4: Danny had given me that that sign I suppose signal,

400
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 4: But actually after that moment, none, none of that happened.

401
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 4: You know, like everybody was not everybody was everybody was.

402
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 4: I was going to say everybody was helping each other,

403
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 4: but they weren't because importantly, the officers were nowhere to

404
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 4: be seen, like the guys were still on the bridge.

405
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 4: Nobody was telling anybody where to, you know, what to do.

406
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 4: But when when I asked people for help with stuff,

407
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 4: or when we when I was yelling at people to

408
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 4: do stuff, it happened, and people were really good. So

409
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 4: when Shakim and I lifted went to push the next

410
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 4: life wrapped into the water. It we mistimed it and

411
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 4: it landed just in between some of the people on

412
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 4: the deck below. Hit the deck cracked open, and then

413
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 4: very quickly they bundled it over the side and it inflated.

414
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 4: So we had one life raft for thirty eight guys,

415
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 4: and these life rafts are designed to hold, like, you know,

416
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 4: either fourteen or twenty people.

417
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: So it's not enough.

418
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 4: And so I turned to Bubbles, the skipper, and I said,

419
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 4: we'll launch the other life rast no, and he said, no, no, Matt,

420
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: that would be enough. I thought, no, no, no, We'll

421
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 4: go and launch the other one. So we went around

422
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 4: and she came and I launched the other two life rafts.

423
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 4: They inflated and the crew got them to the stern

424
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: of the boat. So there's three life routs at the

425
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 4: stern of the boat.

426
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: What moment, Matt, did you feel like that you had

427
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 1: to take charge, that, you know, if you didn't step

428
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: in and really, you know, make things happen, that you know,

429
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: things weren't going to happen. You know, it almost sounds

430
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: like that you were forced to step up and take

431
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: some kind of leadership role because things were obviously chaotic,

432
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: going going from from bad to extremely bad.

433
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, very much, so like it was just bubbles, and

434
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 4: but it just didn't hadn't come down to the actually

435
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 4: and even seen what was happening on their boat. I

436
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 4: didn't understand that. But also the other guys, like the

437
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 4: other experienced deck bosses were nowhere around, like Charlie, who's

438
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 4: the deck bows and like the South African guy. He

439
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 4: was trying to help and get people organized, and I

440
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,239
Speaker 4: think he was one of the ones who got them

441
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 4: organized on the deck, but no everywhere else. All the

442
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 4: engineers nowhere to be seen. When we were having problems

443
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: with the pumps, and that Klaus, the chief engineer, was

444
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 4: still in bed. He'd only appeared late in the day,

445
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 4: so there was nobody and all they experienced people who

446
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 4: I'd thought would guide us through this, they would nowhere

447
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 4: to be seen. There was a moment we just launched

448
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 4: the life routes and increasingly I'd had to be what

449
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 4: the one doing stuff and getting people to do things,

450
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 4: and I was going to go down the stairs at

451
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 4: the back to the life routes.

452
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: We just launched them, and.

453
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 4: I had this moment when I was on my own

454
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 4: and I thought this could be it, right, I need

455
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 4: to get as many people off this boat as possible.

456
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: We might not make it, but I don't want to

457
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 4: embarrass myself. Let's get as many people off this boat

458
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 4: as we can, as safely as we can. Let's give

459
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 4: ourselves the best chances. So started barking orders basically, and

460
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 4: we got all the crew were magic. We got the

461
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: life rafts to the back of the boat, they lined up,

462
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 4: they were We tried to check them over to make

463
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 4: sure they were ready to go, and then when the

464
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 4: signal didn't come from the bridge, we started just yelled

465
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 4: and started getting people to board the rafts at the

466
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 4: back to abandoned ship, which was not my place to

467
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: be doing that, and they started going no knives, no fighting,

468
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 4: into the rafts, and you know, going along just checking

469
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 4: people were okay and ready and actually catching myself like

470
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: going back to my lifeguard training from when I was

471
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 4: fifteen years old and saying literally yelling out to people,

472
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 4: don't panic, it will be fine. And I remember, like,

473
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 4: you know when you do that and you think, yeah, yeah, whatever,

474
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 4: you're gonna like You're like you're gonna stand there and yell,

475
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 4: don't panic, it'll be fine, and actually, don't help, It'll

476
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 4: be fine. We're good, you know, And yeah it helped,

477
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: so fall back on your training.

478
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: So how many people entered the life the life rafts?

479
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,239
Speaker 1: Did do all thirty eight of you end up on

480
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: these life rafts? And how does the story and how

481
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: what happens to the actual vessel itself?

482
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 4: So I thought we all did get off into the

483
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 4: life rafts. Now basically I think we lost some in

484
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 4: the boarding or in the maleey around the end. So

485
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 4: the sad thing is the first life raft that I saw,

486
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 4: I thought, there's one life raut that looked newer than

487
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 4: the others, Shaquim and Carlos. I thought, that's the one

488
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: I'm going to go for. And when Shaquim and Carlos

489
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 4: were in it to experienced Portuguese guys, I thought, that's the.

490
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: One I want to go for. They'll know what they're doing.

491
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 4: And then I saw them drift away from the ship

492
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 4: and they'd cut the lines early with just two of

493
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 4: them on board. Now, I don't know, maybe there were

494
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 4: somebody in the water they were trying to get to,

495
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 4: maybe something had happened, but they'd cut the lines and

496
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 4: the boat was drifting away with just two of them

497
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 4: in it, and we managed to get everybody else off

498
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 4: into the other life rafts, so grad everybody was going

499
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 4: back along the boat sort of you know, q Q

500
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 4: was going and it was me on the boat and

501
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 4: I turned round to check just to see because it

502
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 4: was like looking back along the boat to see that

503
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 4: everybody was there, because I thought, what if we've left

504
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 4: somebody behind and you're looking back at this like doomed ship.

505
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: Basically, he was quite.

506
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 4: Clear it was, you know, not going to be saved,

507
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 4: and I went back towards the accommodation, like staggered back

508
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 4: along side of the boat, basically towards the accommodation and

509
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 4: biorging This Icelandic captain who had been on there, he'd

510
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 4: only been on night watch. He came out from his

511
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 4: cabin and I was like, what are you doing? What

512
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 4: is happening? And we're abandoning get your life jacket. And

513
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 4: he had not known he'd been asleep. Nobody had woken

514
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 4: him until the last moment. He slept through everything, you know,

515
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 4: nobody had. The most experienced man on board was the

516
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 4: sleep in his cabin. We went to go to the

517
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 4: back of the boat. Bubbles and found collapse in the

518
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 4: water at the side of the boat, and we think

519
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 4: he maybe had a heart attack. He was gray in

520
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 4: the face, and we managed to get him to the

521
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 4: back of the boat, and there were two live.

522
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: Rafts left at the back of the boat.

523
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 4: We got bjorgovin climbed across, and one of them was

524
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 4: a bit more awkward to get to, so Bjorgvin got

525
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,239
Speaker 4: cross jumped into one, and then I helped Bubbles over

526
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 4: the side of the boat and dropped him into the

527
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 4: arms of his crew, and then I jumped in after him.

528
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 4: I thought that was it, you know. I was exhilarated,

529
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 4: and I was like jumping into a ball pool or

530
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 4: something like that when a kid. And I was exhilarated.

531
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: And actually we were in more trouble there because the

532
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 4: boat was like basically slamming down on top of us.

533
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 4: We were then our raft at one point was pushed

534
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 4: underwater by the big gantry at the back of the

535
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 4: big arch at the back of the boat that came

536
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: down on top of us, and this big metal girder

537
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 4: actually pushed us down into the water, scooped our raft

538
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: full of water.

539
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: At minus one.

540
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 4: So when we came up again, I was up to

541
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 4: my waist and water hit people on the head.

542
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: You know.

543
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 4: I can remember just having this feeling of the boat

544
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 4: pushing us, like crushing us down, this rough metal hull

545
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 4: coming down and pushing us underwater, just thinking, right, this

546
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 4: is you know, going to pop. And then the next

547
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: minute we popped clear of it. Somebody managed to find

548
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 4: a cutter, a line cutter, and cut the.

549
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: Oh well, you were still attached with the rope, that's

550
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: why it was taking.

551
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 4: Down, couldn't. But also the current and the wind, the

552
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 4: wind was pushing us. I think the suit of Helvid

553
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 4: maybe had shifted in the wind and we were we

554
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 4: just could not get clear. And then eventually we got clear,

555
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 4: and then at some point the suit of Hervid sank.

556
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: I didn't see it go, but I think I'm glad

557
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 4: about that. But the but at some point when and

558
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: then of course the engines have gone, this noise that

559
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 4: you've had for months in your life has just gone,

560
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 4: and all you left with is the noise of the storm.

561
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: Just two years after giving birth to her son, journalist

562
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: and author Jamilla is the Or, she may have been

563
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: pregnant again with only miles symptoms. Nothing could have prepared

564
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Jumilla for the diagnosis that followed and the fight for

565
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: her life that has forever changed her.

566
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 5: When we arrived at the gynocologist's office, she saw us

567
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 5: very quickly and she told me I had a the

568
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 5: scanchow that there was a growth in my brain, brain tumor,

569
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 5: and they thought they knew what it was, but you know,

570
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 5: it was a bit earlier, and she was a gynecologist

571
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 5: and this wasn't her area of expertise, and she referred

572
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 5: us to a neurosurgeon.

573
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: Wow, what's your thought process from the moment you get

574
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: that phone called to say listen, come in now, trying

575
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: to keep your you know, what's going on your your

576
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: alarm bells are ringing, to sitting down and then ultimately

577
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: passing you on to someone else. Right, what's going through

578
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: your head?

579
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 6: It's really hard to describe it.

580
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 5: I didn't take in anything she said after the word

581
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 5: she used was lesion.

582
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 6: She said, there's a lesion on your brain.

583
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 5: And after that I didn't take anything in for a

584
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 5: bit because I was like, lesion, isn't lesion a cut?

585
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 6: And then I was like, how did I cut my brain?

586
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 5: And so I asked for clarification, and she said, oh,

587
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 5: it's like a growth, and my husband said, like a tumor.

588
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 5: And after that, I don't really remember anything that happened

589
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 5: in that appointment. Thank goodness, my husband was there actually

590
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 5: listened to some of what was happening. The only thing

591
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 5: I can say it was just sheer panic, not panic

592
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 5: that I came down from, like it was like that

593
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 5: that that high. I'm someone who's quite scared of heights.

594
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: Felt that's the closest I felt to it is having

595
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 5: been up somewhere very very very high and being told

596
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 5: to jump.

597
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 6: I imagine that's how I would have felt.

598
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 5: But I didn't come down like I felt like I

599
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 5: was in that heightened state for weeks after that, and

600
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 5: it just there was no relief or release. Because I

601
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 5: I am someone who is a real problem solver and

602
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 5: I like to think about a problem too. I can

603
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 5: come to a solution or a plan, and you can't

604
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 5: think your way out of a brain tumor. There's no

605
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 5: Once you get to what if I die because of

606
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 5: this brain tumor, there's no there's no solution to that, right,

607
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 5: And I sort of good, look.

608
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 6: Got trapped in this panic loop.

609
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: I think, just talk to me about the rarity of

610
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: the of the tumor. Yeah, and what your your your

611
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: ultimatums were, because you know you had basically one one

612
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: choice and one choice only. Yeah, and when did when

613
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: did your mind start to accept what was going on?

614
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 5: So I ended up with a neurosurgeon who was outstanding

615
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 5: and he was very clear with me, and I think

616
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 5: the reason I liked him so much was he didn't sugarcoat,

617
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 5: and so I felt like, Okay, he's not lying to me.

618
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 5: I had this real fear that people would go, oh,

619
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 5: young mum, will just soften the blows of things, which

620
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 5: they were not not going to do.

621
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 6: But that was my fear.

622
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 5: And he was so straightforward and black and white about everything.

623
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 5: I felt a lot of trust with him. And he

624
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 5: said to me that the first time I met him,

625
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 5: he said, he told me that the tumor was very unusual.

626
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 5: What I have is called a cranio for angioma, which

627
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 5: happens to about everyone in one in a million to

628
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 5: one and a half million people.

629
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 6: You're born with it, but.

630
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 5: You're just born with a couple of extra cells, so

631
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 5: you wouldn't be able to see it on a scan

632
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: until it starts to grow, and for most people it

633
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 5: grows when they're a kid. So I was kind of behind,

634
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 5: and I'm really lucky that it didn't grow when I

635
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 5: was a kid. But he said to me in that

636
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 5: very first appointment, he said, what you have is extremely

637
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 5: serious and the next part of this process is going

638
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 5: to be incredibly hard, and you're going to have to

639
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 5: be incredibly strong, but we are going to get you

640
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 5: through this. And I held on to that for years

641
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 5: to come. I would go back to myself and say,

642
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 5: he said, we're going to get me through this. And

643
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 5: I'm a kid who trusts authority.

644
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I worked in politics. I think about

645
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 6: authority and I respect authority. I was like, right, he knows.

646
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 5: So I listened to him and that that definitely helped me.

647
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 5: But if I'm honest in terms of that panic head space,

648
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 5: I genuinely don't think I came out of it until

649
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 5: after the surgery.

650
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 6: I think I was close to that state for a

651
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 6: couple of months.

652
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: And it is so important. You know, the old saying,

653
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: it's not it's not what you say, it's how you

654
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: say it. Just those few words are so powerful in

655
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: that moment and like you said, putting your trust into

656
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: someone is all that you had. The only option that

657
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: you had. You go into surgery. What does that look like?

658
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: What are they what are they doing? Are they cutting

659
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: part of your brain away? And you know, is it?

660
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: Is it? Touch and go? How bad is the tumor?

661
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: How How grown is the tumor?

662
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was when they found it, it was

663
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 5: about two and a half centimeters by one and a

664
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 5: half centimeters. My tumor grows in a really densely populated

665
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 5: part of the brain, So a lot of the brain

666
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 5: is gray matter, right, It doesn't really do anything you.

667
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 6: Don't want to.

668
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 5: You still don't want to tumor there either, but you

669
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 5: definitely don't want a tumor where it's right in the

670
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 5: middle of all the important stuff.

671
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 6: And for me that was the case.

672
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 5: So my tumor grows between just underneath the optic chiasm,

673
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 5: which is sort of where your eyesight crosses over like

674
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 5: the I'm going to explain this terribly, but like the

675
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 5: bit that goes to both of your eyes, where it

676
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 5: touches in the middle. It grows right underneath the hypothalamus,

677
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 5: which is responsible for hunger, thirst, metabolism, and a whole

678
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 5: bunch of other things.

679
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 6: You couldn't live without your hypothalamus.

680
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 5: And then just above the petuitary gland, which is in

681
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 5: charge of all your hormones, which is why my period

682
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 5: had stopped and I have no estrogen. The blood supply

683
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 5: to my petuitary was being cut off. So that first

684
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 5: surgery for me, I've just done a spoiler alert that it.

685
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 6: Was the first, has to be a second.

686
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 5: That first surgery for me, like, if I can take

687
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 5: myself out of it for a moment, I still am

688
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 5: amazed by what doctors can do. So to access my tumor,

689
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 5: they went up through my nose. So they went up

690
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 5: through my nose with cameras as well as instruments. They

691
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 5: cut a small hole in my skull once they got

692
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 5: to that point, and they operated on my brain through there,

693
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 5: which is a less invasive brain surgery.

694
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: Well, so rather than cutting your head open, Yeah, they

695
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: went up through your nose.

696
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, which was still I remember when they said that,

697
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 5: I was like what, I just didn't even know that

698
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 5: they could do that, But it's quite common now, and

699
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 5: if possible, that's how they'll if that's where they can

700
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 5: get to the tumor. Best that's what they'll do. I

701
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 5: think the whole theme of my health journey is naive

702
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 5: to like I just didn't know what I was in for.

703
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 5: I was so focused on the possibility that I might

704
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 5: not survive the surgery. I didn't really understand complexity of

705
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 5: recovery and what was going to be ahead of me

706
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 5: because I was not experiencing any symptoms except having not

707
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 5: had a period like I ran ten K's the day

708
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 5: before I went into hospital. I was still I think,

709
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 5: up until the night before, expecting someone to say, oh, no,

710
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 5: we mixed up.

711
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: A scared Yeah, yeah, we've got it wrong.

712
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah. There was this feeling of like, how

713
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 6: could I possibly be sick? I don't feel sick.

714
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: And sometimes that's the best way to tackle things sometimes,

715
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's you know when you overthink, over analyze

716
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: and overstress, and you know, it can really drain you,

717
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: you know, psychologically and emotionally and physically.

718
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 5: You know, it reminds me that after that surgery, it

719
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 5: was would have been only been a couple maybe two

720
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 5: days after that surgery.

721
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 6: I remember my surgeon came around and I hadn't stood.

722
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 5: Up yet, and he got very grumpy with everyone and

723
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 5: was like, why isn't she standing, And I was looking

724
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 5: at him being.

725
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 6: Like, oh, because I had brain surgery, and but he

726
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 6: was like, no, I want to standing.

727
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 5: I want her up and standing before the end of

728
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 5: the day, because it is true that the sooner you're

729
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 5: up and standing, moving and walking, the better for your recovery.

730
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 5: But at the time, I remember thinking, I don't even

731
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 5: know if I can, like, but I remember they got

732
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 5: everyone on either side of me, and they had my

733
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 5: husband on one side, my sister on the other, and

734
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 5: nurses holding all like I had so many cords coming

735
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 5: out of me still in front of me, and they

736
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 5: sort of helped me slide off the bed and stand up,

737
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 5: and as soon as I did, I started vomiting and

738
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 5: it was.

739
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 6: Pitch black like it looked I looked like tar to.

740
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 5: Me, and I remember just thinking, oh, this is it now,

741
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 5: this is I'm dying like this. It was sheer panic

742
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 5: because it was black, and my sister, like I remember,

743
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 5: she grab clenched my arm and so I looked at

744
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 5: her and she said, this is fine, this is completely normal.

745
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 5: They knew this was going to happen. You just have

746
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 5: to ride it out. And she was like rubbing my

747
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 5: back and she was one hundred percent right. It is

748
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 5: completely normal. I swallowed a lot of blood during surgery

749
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 5: and it was just dried. It was dried blood coming up,

750
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: which is gross. Sorry everybody, But she.

751
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 6: Didn't know that.

752
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: She had no idea.

753
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 6: She just said that she's made it up.

754
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: Oh she did.

755
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 5: She was just trying to keep me calm because she

756
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 5: also thought it was like and she was like, better

757
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 5: to die carme. Yeah, And you know, I do think

758
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 5: people sometimes our naivety does protect us, and sometimes that

759
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 5: includes not realizing what we're capable of. And my sister

760
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 5: would have been one of those people. You know, she's

761
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 5: a baby of the family. She's the one we always

762
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 5: looked after, and with me not being the one doing

763
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 5: the looking after, she really stepped up in the most

764
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 5: incredible way for my whole family. She supported everyone, including me.

765
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 5: And I think sometimes we don't know what we can

766
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 5: do until we're put in the circumstance where there's no

767
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 5: choice anymore.

768
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: What does the recovery look like, because, like you said,

769
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you find yourself on a on

770
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: a you know, for in for a second operation. How

771
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: does that journey look up to that second op.

772
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 6: Yeah.

773
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 5: The recovery was tough, at least of which that I

774
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 5: had quite a weak nose afterwards because they had to.

775
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Take a lot of cart can imagine pulled the tumor

776
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: from your from your brain through your nose and I.

777
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 6: Don't know put it in.

778
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 5: Wow, But to do that, they had to take a

779
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 5: bit of cartilage out to just make more space I

780
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 5: suppose in my nose. And the recovery was going all right,

781
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 5: It was hard and I was so tired, and.

782
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 6: At that stage they just left it with the surgery.

783
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 5: So it was a very much wait and see what

784
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 5: happens next kind of situation. But my two and a

785
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 5: half year old flew a spider man dole into my

786
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 5: nose by accident, and my whole nose just collapsed.

787
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: It was like through a spider man do yeah, because

788
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: it was.

789
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 5: All and then the spider man happened, and it happened

790
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 5: over a few days. It was like a tent and

791
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 5: you just like you pull the poles out of it and.

792
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 6: It just sort of crum crumbles.

793
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 5: My nose just sort of crumpled, and I I remember

794
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 5: saying should I get it fixed? And my husband was like, yeah,

795
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 5: but not now. Like we're just we've got bigger things

796
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 5: to deal with than the nose. We'll deal with that

797
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 5: another time. But I think that really did add to

798
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 5: my sense of like like it was this another thing,

799
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 5: another thing. There was that sort of feeling nonetheless like

800
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 5: we had a huge party. One of the things I

801
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 5: had wanted was like I'm going to get through this

802
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 5: and we're gonna have a big party.

803
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 6: We had a big party in so.

804
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: You still got the all clear. Yes it's out, it's done,

805
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: and they.

806
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 5: Were like, we've left a little bit in there because

807
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 5: it was too dangerous to take it out, but they

808
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 5: weren't expecting it to grow again. They said, good odds,

809
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 5: we think it's going to be fine from here. We

810
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 5: had this huge party. I remember, it was awesome. My

811
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 5: husband and I bought a house. This is all in

812
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 5: a few months, and we moved into the house on

813
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 5: the Saturday. We unpacked a bit on the Sunday, and

814
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 5: then on the Monday they told me it had grown back,

815
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 5: and it had grown back really aggressively, so we had

816
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 5: to move quite fast.

817
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

818
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 5: In my head I was like like when you prune

819
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 5: the bushes outside the house and then they grow bit

820
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 5: I'm sure that's not how.

821
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: It works, but that was yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

822
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 5: Like it just yeah, it growing back qrighte aggressively. I

823
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 5: had my first surgery in January. Formal recovery was done

824
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 5: by end of March, and they told me that the

825
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 5: first weekend of July, so it wasn't long. I was

826
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 5: back in hospital again in September.

827
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, where's your head space right now? When they tell

828
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: you again it's growing back, not only is it going back,

829
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: but it's aggressive. We need to get you in a sap.

830
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: Where's your head space goes? Just devastating devastation.

831
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 5: It wasn't the same shock, of course, because it's not

832
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 5: possible because I had some adjustment, but it was just devastation,

833
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 5: and I remember saying, I can't do it again, Like.

834
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 6: I didn't feel strong anymore.

835
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 5: I went into that first one being a really fit, healthy,

836
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 5: strong thirty, but I hadn't.

837
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 6: I hadn't recovered I even recovered that much.

838
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 5: And in only six months, and I I remember just

839
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 5: thinking I can't, Like I.

840
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 6: How will I do it? I don't feel strong.

841
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 5: I remember saying I don't feel strong, and I think

842
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 5: I meant that in every sense of the word I

843
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 5: didn't feel strong enough.

844
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 6: But I was less scared. I will say I was.

845
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 5: I was terrified still, but I had less of this

846
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 5: certain sense that I would not be able to survive

847
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 5: the surgery. I was, you know, I think I thought, well,

848
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 5: I've done it before, so I can do it again,

849
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 5: and that that gave me more confidence, which is it

850
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 5: probably not very logical, but I did have this sense

851
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 5: of like, my body got through it, so it must.

852
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 6: Be able to do it again.

853
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 5: And that probably didn't take into account how intense that

854
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 5: surgery was going to be. And that surgery was life changing,

855
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 5: because after that surgery I acquired like quite a significant

856
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 5: brain injury, which was necessary. Like that, they had no

857
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 5: choice to cut the tumor out.

858
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 6: They had to. They had to do that.

859
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: So they left the part of the tumor that they

860
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: thought would be okay that was attached to a certain

861
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: part of the brain, that to the brain. If they

862
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: got wrong, then it could potentially have devastating effects on you.

863
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: But now they had to take that risk. They had

864
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: to cut it all out and just take away the

865
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: risk of it ever being not own, not being there,

866
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: but ever growing again.

867
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, so they took probably ninety eight percent of it.

868
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 5: They left the two percent that was directly on my

869
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 5: optic chiasm because if they'd taken that, I would have

870
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 5: been blind, so they chose not to. But they took

871
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 5: everything else, which meant I lost progressively. Took a bit

872
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 5: of time, but I lost all hormone function in the

873
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 5: pituitary gland, which is really considerable impact on your life.

874
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 5: It means I take seven eight types of medication every day.

875
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 5: I don't make cortisol anymore, which is the big one,

876
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 5: because you can't you can't be alive without cortisol. My

877
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 5: body doesn't balance water on its own, and so without medication,

878
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 5: I would just be ferociously thirsty, but wouldn't make your

879
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 5: own properly, Like I'd just drink lots of water and

880
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 5: then I just.

881
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 6: It would come out right. But I would not.

882
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 5: My body wouldn't do what it needed to do, and

883
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 5: so I would eventually just dehydrate entirely and die from that.

884
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 5: If I didn't have the medication, I don't make estrogen

885
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 5: or testosterone, or growth hormone or prolactin, there's so many

886
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 5: of them. Progesterone and so just completely changed my life,

887
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 5: completely changed my life.

888
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: Wow, And how has that changed your outlook on life?

889
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 5: I would say, now, you know, five years after that,

890
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 5: I am somewhere back near that headspace again. I don't

891
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 5: feel indestructible, but I feel like I have the same

892
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 5: enthusiasm and enjoyment and determination for life. But I will

893
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 5: say it took a really long time to get there.

894
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 5: Like I had a good few years of really not

895
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 5: being myself.

896
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: How did you get through that to be where you

897
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: are today?

898
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, to be honest, I think I had to get

899
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 5: to acceptance. You know, they talk about the stages of

900
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 5: grief and the stages of grief.

901
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 6: I didn't do them in order. I just kept like

902
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 6: bobbing around in them all and not.

903
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 5: Getting to acceptance, going backwards and you know, going through

904
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 5: the rage period and going through the bargaining period, going

905
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 5: through the denial. I just seemed to go back and forth.

906
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 5: And I think I did that for a good few years.

907
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 5: It didn't help that I came out of treatment into

908
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 5: a pandemic and I live in.

909
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 6: Melbourne, so it'd got locked in my house for a while.

910
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 6: That didn't help. But I and.

911
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 5: I won't say that there weren moments of joy in

912
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 5: those years there were right, like it's never all dark

913
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 5: or all light, but I hadn't accepted what had happened

914
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 5: to me. I kept putting myself in hospital because I

915
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 5: didn't really accept my own limits.

916
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 6: I'd keep trying to push and do the things.

917
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 5: That I live the way I used to live, and

918
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 5: do things the way I used to do things, and

919
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 5: then it would end up being very dangerous. And I

920
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 5: think it did take me a good couple of years

921
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 5: to get to the point of going. You know, I

922
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 5: was someone who believed I was living life without limits,

923
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 5: that I could do anything, and to accept that there

924
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 5: were some really firm limits for me. That didn't mean

925
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 5: I couldn't do a whole bunch of other things, but

926
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 5: that I did have to work within those limits or

927
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 5: I wouldn't survive. And that sounds really negative, but I

928
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 5: actually think it was really helpful for me once I

929
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 5: finally reframed and went, Okay, these limits are aren't everything,

930
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 5: but they are this, and I have to respect that

931
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 5: or I'm not respecting what my body can do. Otherwise

932
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 5: I'm expecting my body to fly, but none of us

933
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 5: are sitting here thinking I can fly. My body can't

934
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 5: do things anymore. It's never going to be able to

935
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 5: do those things. Unless there's some huge scientific revolution. It's

936
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 5: never going to be able to do those things again.

937
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 5: So what is possible for me?

938
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 6: Knowing that?

939
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 5: And I think focusing on what is possible for me

940
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 5: knowing that has been really helpful.

941
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to any of these interviews

942
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: in full, I'll put the links in the show notes.

943
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm at Middleton, Catch you in the next episode.