Speaker 1: If you, as a senior coach get beaten to the
Speaker 1: chains room by the chairman of the board and the board,
Speaker 1: grab your keys, go and grab your bag and get
Speaker 1: the hell out of there, because you're done.
Speaker 2: I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens
Speaker 3: when the ax falls in the AFL world. Will take
Speaker 3: you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names
Speaker 3: in football and find out how they found out their
Speaker 3: time was up and who pulled the trigger. Sacked AFL
Speaker 3: is made possible with the support of subscribers to The
Speaker 3: Herald Sun. To find out more, go to Heraldsun dot com,
Speaker 3: do au or download the Herald Sun app at your
Speaker 3: app store today.
Speaker 4: Here it is the life and times of Paul Ruse
Speaker 4: from Beverly Hills in Melbourne's East. It was no wonder
Speaker 4: Paul Ruse became as close to a movie star as
Speaker 4: the AFL gets when the man who would only become
Speaker 4: coach of the Swans thanks to a grassroots campaign and
Speaker 4: then led them to a seventy two year drought breaking
Speaker 4: flag just three years later, was announced as coach of
Speaker 4: the Demons Red and Blue fans breathed a sigh of relief.
Speaker 4: It was as if Tom Cruise had appeared in a
Speaker 4: blockbuster movie. Ruse was the bankable star. It wasn't going
Speaker 4: to be allowed to fail from here. But how did
Speaker 4: the kid from don Vale get there?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 4: As was the way in the early nineteen eighties, thanks
Speaker 4: to recruiting zones, his fate was predetermined. Paul Ruse was
Speaker 4: always going to be a Roy boy.
Speaker 1: You sort of didn't have a choice in a sense,
Speaker 1: like you know, when when I was playing, I was
Speaker 1: playing footy and playing basketball and grew up in don
Speaker 1: Bar which was great, and you know, just everything was
Speaker 1: about sport back then. So he just played my whole
Speaker 1: week with basketball, tennis and football. And then because of
Speaker 1: the zoning system, which I think, I know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of conversation. We might get to the academies later on,
Speaker 1: but I didn't really think about a boy. You got
Speaker 1: invited down to a footy club and you were so excited,
Speaker 1: and the great thing about that you jump in a
Speaker 1: cab with three of fort your mate, so you play
Speaker 1: at Beverly Hills with or you're playing against the Donnie
Speaker 1: so Donnie Hyight. So it's such an easy time. Jumping
Speaker 1: a cab don Val don Va High School, head down
Speaker 1: the junction Oval, jump in a cab, you come home
Speaker 1: stovin McDonald's, get the taxi driver added onto the bill,
Speaker 1: and then the way you go the way you go home.
Speaker 1: So there was no real thought process about it. It
Speaker 1: was just if you were good enough. And the reason
Speaker 1: I loved that system is going to capture everyone. Like
Speaker 1: everyone in that zone went to fitz Royal. I mean
Speaker 1: the list in under Nineti's was probably forty you know,
Speaker 1: preseason training was probably fifty or sixty. So that's so
Speaker 1: different to the way it is today. I mean you've
Speaker 1: got total of probably eighty players drafted Australia White. We're
Speaker 1: talking about sixty players from the fitzroy zone getting drafted
Speaker 1: every year. So again, didn't really think about it. Thought, yeah,
Speaker 1: most kids would go down play some under Ninet's that'd
Speaker 1: be pretty cool, and then I'll better work out what
Speaker 1: I'm going to do. When I started at the AMP,
Speaker 1: so I already had a job. But yeah, you didn't
Speaker 1: really think too much about it really, to be honest.
Speaker 3: He rippers through just the highlights of those early years.
Speaker 3: So nine eighty two. You're an eighteen year old. Your
Speaker 3: first game against Sydney. You play alongside a sixteen year
Speaker 3: old and Gary Purt the number one jumper. Did you
Speaker 3: get that from the start? The big names you know, Conlin, Wilson, McMahon, Quinland.
Speaker 3: You know, what are the early recollections of that time?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean the early recollections are getting the training
Speaker 1: and looking around and I guess probably now because there's
Speaker 1: very few players at training when I turn up at
Speaker 1: you know, Melbourne, Melbourne coach, Sydney coach, because your lists
Speaker 1: are very strict, But one of the big things you
Speaker 1: remember is how many players were there. I would say,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would say at the start of
Speaker 1: pre season there's probably seventy to eighty players training. Like
Speaker 1: that's probably the thing that hits me now. And then
Speaker 1: you know, looking at a coach like Robert Walls and
Speaker 1: going I got for Carlton, you know, like suddenly confronted
Speaker 1: with your legends and icons and standing next to Bernie
Speaker 1: Quinlan and Gary Wilson. So I think the enormity of
Speaker 1: the occasion hits you really quickly. Then I was at
Speaker 1: the jump presentation on my first jump presentation nine eighty one,
Speaker 1: and I was with my girlfriend at the time. I
Speaker 1: think my parents were there and they were counting down
Speaker 1: because as you guys know, and back then it was
Speaker 1: counting down from number sixty whatever, you know whatever, eighty seven.
Speaker 3: So that should shows you how well I was.
Speaker 1: So you go along prepared to have number fifty nine
Speaker 1: or something like that, and I remember going fifty nine,
Speaker 1: fifty eight, forty five, thirty twenty five. Trouble here, I thought,
Speaker 1: because there are stories, guys, you would know, there are
Speaker 1: stories about guys turning up a jumper Knights and getting
Speaker 1: delisted on the ninth bacause the chairman of match committee
Speaker 1: got the call and come down. Anyway. Soon's sitting there
Speaker 1: going wow, I don't know what's going on here. This
Speaker 1: is pretty weird. And I got number one, like from
Speaker 1: a first time on the list. So that was that
Speaker 1: number one came about. And I'm still shocked to this
Speaker 1: day as to why I got it. But then you
Speaker 1: mentioned I mean, you know, I remember my first practice game.
Speaker 1: You know, it's an intra club game, and as I said,
Speaker 1: there's sixty guys, so you got plenty of guys to
Speaker 1: play two teams with about twenty players standing on the
Speaker 1: boundary line waiting to get on, and I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember waiting to get on and Blue versus Red,
Speaker 1: and I think it was I think it was Rossy
Speaker 1: Thornton tackled Mickeyn, you know, and I'm a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old waiting to get on the ground that excited to play,
Speaker 1: and Mickey wouldn't shot the ball up, so Rossie tried
Speaker 1: to grab it off him. So Mickey punched Rossi in
Speaker 1: the head. I think it was Leon Harris, and I
Speaker 1: think Leon Harris ran in and so punched Leon Harris
Speaker 1: in the head. And I'm gone, hey, this is an
Speaker 1: intra club practice game. I'm not sure I really want
Speaker 1: to go.
Speaker 5: On the go on the fielding me, I mean, And
Speaker 5: there were great people right and again, you know, reflecting
Speaker 5: on Maddie Randell's passing and Rossie Thornt's passing, it's when
Speaker 5: you go to the funerals and it's not about wins
Speaker 5: and losses.
Speaker 1: And I think that's I probably realized that when I
Speaker 1: was captain and then I went coach to Sydney, But
Speaker 1: going to those funerals and seeing that the impact that
Speaker 1: they had on me and all the people in the room.
Speaker 1: I think you realize how lucky you were to go
Speaker 1: to the Fitzroy footy club. It's just had an enormous
Speaker 1: amount of this fantastic human beings playing for that club.
Speaker 3: So on the eve of one Hundreth game in nine
Speaker 3: and eighty six, you teld Brian whilst she's now the
Speaker 3: AFOLS corporate affairs boss formerly herold Son, if fritzro has
Speaker 3: the opportunity to go to Brisbane, they have got to
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: We asked Els toll insist, you know, tell us the
Speaker 3: times and people say, now, how can a team go
Speaker 3: out of business? But you know, for those that are
Speaker 3: younger and watching listening to this podcast, what was it like?
Speaker 3: Hawpercurious was it? And why was eighty six a tipping point?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think it's about six or seven games
Speaker 1: to go, and we were on the I was driving
Speaker 1: past the other day when I was in Melbourne. I
Speaker 1: pointed out to my son, I said, there is the
Speaker 1: that's the tennis court on a Sunday morning at Wesley
Speaker 1: Coley down Punt Road. And I told Tyler the story.
Speaker 1: I said, that's the tennis court that Leon Wiga walked
Speaker 1: on with about seven rounds to go in nine and
Speaker 1: eighty six and said, guys, we've got three options. We
Speaker 1: can fold, we can merge with the Melbourne based Cluber,
Speaker 1: we can go to Brisbane, and we all voted to
Speaker 1: go to Brisbane. And then I started having meetings with
Speaker 1: myself and Perty and a few other started having meetings
Speaker 1: with Ironically, I think it was Ronnie jophas Joseph who
Speaker 1: was running one of the syndigoates. So we started having meeting.
Speaker 1: We won six out of our last seven games we played,
Speaker 1: and we got to the primary final that year. And
Speaker 1: then probably the worst thing that happened was that hecron
Speaker 1: I think it was a building company came in and
Speaker 1: saved this at the time. And when I say the
Speaker 1: worst thing that happened, because I think they went broke
Speaker 1: not long after. And we really struggled, guys, We really did,
Speaker 1: I mean struggled to party players and it was a
Speaker 1: great club and everyone did as best as they possibly could.
Speaker 1: I nearly got traded, Heardy did get traded, Richard Osband
Speaker 1: left and it was just it just fell apart from
Speaker 1: eighty six and I think again you asked me if
Speaker 1: I had won the premiership in eighty three. If we
Speaker 1: had gone to Brisbane in eighty six, I think they
Speaker 1: had the two Jarmans, Mark Leslie. I think they had
Speaker 1: three or four of the best players in Australia all
Speaker 1: lined up who I think Mark Leslie did. The two
Speaker 1: Jarmans didn't go, And I really believe it would have
Speaker 1: been a powerhouse football club from day one because we
Speaker 1: would have kept all the great players that eventually left
Speaker 1: and we would have added some really good players. So
Speaker 1: it was a really big mistake in hindsight, but I
Speaker 1: know why. The Fitzroy faithful continued to do what they
Speaker 1: did and we all worked really hard and it just
Speaker 1: fell apart in ninety six.
Speaker 4: Just in eighty that's saying me. You're talking about nineteen
Speaker 4: eighty six to Brownlow Medal. You're going to the Brownlow
Speaker 4: Medal as favorite.
Speaker 3: The hottest of favorite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite incredible.
Speaker 4: And your poll exceptionally well through the year, maybe not
Speaker 4: as well as most media pundits thought you would. And
Speaker 4: you're lose by a vote and you don't get I
Speaker 4: think most everyone the last game, I think everyone thought
Speaker 4: you were going to get the three votes.
Speaker 2: He didn't get any, and a.
Speaker 4: Kid called I think it was that Mark Dwyer from
Speaker 4: Style a few, the Corot Flyer Style a few towards
Speaker 4: the end of the year tell us about the pressure
Speaker 4: of going into a you know, a brown lockout and
Speaker 4: how stiff were here then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean there's a little bits the same
Speaker 1: that there is now. I mean, you know, most of
Speaker 1: the time we go into brown lows, and even back
Speaker 1: then you go on to browns because the Age had award,
Speaker 1: the Herald Sun had award, Inside Football had an award
Speaker 1: channel set.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's everything I think, didn't your Rosie you
Speaker 4: pretty much want anything that year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I won all the awards that year,
Speaker 1: and I think I won the MVP of the Players Association.
Speaker 1: So you're going in there's a there's a favorite or
Speaker 1: clear favorites or whatever, and I remember I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: there was one vote behind. They always leave the The
Speaker 1: last game was Fitzroy person. Yeah, fitz Robert Sydney. I
Speaker 1: just remember this likecus that happened yesterday. So last round
Speaker 1: Fitzroy v. Sydney that there was so many cameras come over.
Speaker 1: They pointed at me, and I'm sitting there going I
Speaker 1: think I'm going to win this, This would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1: One vote, two votes. I think Smirky dw Ive got
Speaker 1: three votes. I can't believe how quickly boys the cameras left.
Speaker 1: It was one of the manhole opened up and they
Speaker 1: just disappeared. Like I've looked around and going, wait, what's
Speaker 1: going on? You know? I finished the finished sequels a
Speaker 1: third or second or because there was diesel and dip
Speaker 1: of both wanted together, but they disappeared.
Speaker 6: That versus Sydney Swans, Sidney Swans, that's right. One vote.
Speaker 6: Fitz Roy G. Perch two votes, fitz Roy W. Logans
Speaker 6: three votes.
Speaker 1: Equal winners Williams of the Swans.
Speaker 7: Deep Pierre Dominica of Hawthorn, both on seventeen votes.
Speaker 1: Bernie, but also remember who was pretty tall and I
Speaker 1: didn't know these boys that well. I think it was
Speaker 1: and there's Craig Bradley and Stephen Kernan came over to
Speaker 1: me later in the night, which was really nice of
Speaker 1: him just to say, look, Brusy just wanted to reach out.
Speaker 1: And then I remember going to Fitzroy function. I was
Speaker 1: probably more disappointed for the Fitzroy fans. I was for
Speaker 1: myself because they organized the celebration, thinking, I felt really
Speaker 1: bad that going back there, not without the Brownlow metal,
Speaker 1: but you realize, you know, you can't control anything, and
Speaker 1: it would have been obviously nice, but that's the reality
Speaker 1: of the other Brownlow really.
Speaker 3: Glen mcfhalan's research is, as always is extraordinary. This is
Speaker 3: a quote from Lion's captain Paul Ruse. How can clubs
Speaker 3: expect player loyalty when things like this happened? The shock
Speaker 3: of the merger with foots Gray as a playing group
Speaker 3: was absolutely blindsided. Give us a reflection on that.
Speaker 7: Ladies in gentlemen, the VFL Commission and the boards of
Speaker 7: the Fitzroy and Footscray football Clubs are very pleased to
Speaker 7: announce today the formation of a new force in VFL
Speaker 7: football called the Fitzroy Bulldogs.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean there's a lot of you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that happened during that period. You know,
Speaker 1: it was pretty difficult. It's sort of hard to put
Speaker 1: it on the context now because when you're going through it,
Speaker 1: To be honest, it's normal, you know, when you when
Speaker 1: it's happening, because as you guys would know, is like
Speaker 1: we would there were things like we would get paid
Speaker 1: first of March, first three payments a year, so first
Speaker 1: of March, first of July, first of December, and I
Speaker 1: would bring up every payment time and I'd say, look,
Speaker 1: and I was a pretty good player, and I would
Speaker 1: bring up and I think I was captain in eighty eight,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't like I was Joe Blow the forty
Speaker 1: second plan on the list, and I would bring up
Speaker 1: the accounts and I would say, oh gods, you're going
Speaker 1: to get my money, ol Ruzie and your way to week,
Speaker 1: and it just became normal. And it's funny. Even the
Speaker 1: mergers just sort of became normal. But probably the worst
Speaker 1: part out of that is we became like Footscraye really galvanized,
Speaker 1: and they really sort of got money together and they
Speaker 1: sort of got their act together, and it just seemed
Speaker 1: to be one other hurdle that fits I couldn't overcome.
Speaker 1: Whether it was right or not, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I think there was a thing. There's a photo, no Mackie,
Speaker 1: you might Dougie Hawkins with a jumper on the front
Speaker 1: part of the Herald. The irony of that when I'm
Speaker 1: first met my wife. You love this story. So I
Speaker 1: first met my wife Tammy in San Diego and she
Speaker 1: asked me what I did. I say I was a
Speaker 1: professional surfer, so anyway, I couldn't get away with that
Speaker 1: because it was it was the era where in Australia,
Speaker 1: in Melbourne you had to wear like suit pants and
Speaker 1: a colard shirt to a nightclub. So I thought the
Speaker 1: same thing would happen in San Diego. So me and
Speaker 1: Brett Stevens looked like two accountants going two surfy pubs.
Speaker 1: I'll walk into Tammy's gone, There's no way known your surfer.
Speaker 1: Have a look at the way you dressed. Anyway, I
Speaker 1: then told her now I played Australian rules football, and
Speaker 1: she didn't believe that, so that she arrived in Melbourne
Speaker 1: the day the Herald Son really had the photo of
Speaker 1: me on a front page with Dougie Hawkins, and then
Speaker 1: finally realized, yeah, maybe I was telling the truth, but
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, it was. There were huge stories. But
Speaker 1: because again putting in context, I think because the way
Speaker 1: the media is now compared to what it was then,
Speaker 1: it was sort of one big story in the Herald's done,
Speaker 1: one big story in the age. It wasn't like Instagram,
Speaker 1: you know, all the mediums we have now websites all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. So it was big for that moment,
Speaker 1: and then you'd go to training and you train and
Speaker 1: you play on the weekend. So it didn't it sort
Speaker 1: of didn't carry over, which is quite it's quite different
Speaker 1: to the way it is now.
Speaker 3: So I suppose I was going to ask you, you know,
Speaker 3: if the AFL should have done more and Ross Oakley,
Speaker 3: you know, killed a football club and I moved on.
Speaker 3: But it feels to me like you're saying it was
Speaker 3: you know, it was dying, and it was dying, and
Speaker 3: it you know, it probably didn't need to be resuscitated
Speaker 3: at times, and what happened to it was the best outcome.
Speaker 1: I think they should have gone in eighty six. That
Speaker 1: would have been the best outcome. But I I think
Speaker 1: not many people know this. I've said this maybe privately,
Speaker 1: and I think publicly. We were going to boycott a
Speaker 1: preseason game one.
Speaker 2: Year wow because she is done?
Speaker 1: Because great question. So there was a lot of senior
Speaker 1: players coming to me insane Rousie, We're hearing we're not
Speaker 1: going to get paid, We're hearing going to get fold.
Speaker 1: It was the start of the season and Ralphie because
Speaker 1: the reason I'm mentioning this because you said, did the
Speaker 1: AFL did enough? We actually went to the AFL and
Speaker 1: asked them from a manager, Damian Smith, if they guarantee
Speaker 1: our contracts. They said they wouldn't, so we actually as
Speaker 1: a group, there's probably ten or twelve or maybe more
Speaker 1: senior players that got together and said, guys, this is
Speaker 1: not good. We could actually fold and not get paid.
Speaker 1: So the club, I think the club got pretty shitty
Speaker 1: for us doing it, and we came to a compromise.
Speaker 1: We end up playing, but we were legitimately not going
Speaker 1: to turn up for a preseason practice game. So I
Speaker 1: don't think the AFL did enough, Ralphie. But was it
Speaker 1: inevitable anyway? Probably? I mean, if you look at South Melbourne,
Speaker 1: it was sort of the same, wasn't it really, And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until many many years later and when Plugger
Speaker 1: went up there and it seemed to get a bit on.
Speaker 1: Hafey did a great job with Diesel and Jared Healy
Speaker 1: and but that was a bit superficial. I suspect just
Speaker 1: had a lot of great players and private ownership. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's probably hard. It's a bit harsh
Speaker 1: on the AFL or the VFL. Back then, no one
Speaker 1: really knew what to do and I obviously want to
Speaker 1: expand it. And when we look back on it now,
Speaker 1: it was probably a good thing the Brisbane lines, but
Speaker 1: I think if that they should have gone in eighty
Speaker 1: six and that would have been you know, the Brisbane
Speaker 1: Bears were terrible for many many years because it was
Speaker 1: tough for them. But if fitz Roy had a relocated
Speaker 1: I think that would have been a really good result
Speaker 1: back then.
Speaker 3: So Freeman was an option, Adelaide was an option. There
Speaker 3: was an Adelaide trade there and then at the end
Speaker 3: it was Sidney became obvious to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well Adelaide couldn't get anyone to go to fitz Roy.
Speaker 1: So Robert Shaw wanted me to come. And I knew
Speaker 1: Tony McGinnis really well. I knew Greg Anderson really well.
Speaker 1: I played Gaelic football with him, knew Chris McDermott really well.
Speaker 1: I was pretty excited to go to Adelaide. And Ronnie
Speaker 1: Joseph was fantastic because Ronnie Joseph was working with Sydney
Speaker 1: and he was amazing. He would bring me all the time.
Speaker 1: So Rusie, it's probably not fair for you to come
Speaker 1: to Sydney as a thirty one year old by yourself.
Speaker 1: But we think if we can get Tony Lockett, we'd
Speaker 1: love you to come as a package. We love you
Speaker 1: to come with Tony and we think that'll make a
Speaker 1: big difference. So he was amazing and I was talking
Speaker 1: Adelaide at the same time. Free I was interesting. Jared
Speaker 1: Neisha was an interesting cat. He was pretty funny. But
Speaker 1: so those were the two main ones, was Adelaide and Sydney.
Speaker 1: And as I said, Ronnie was great. He talked me
Speaker 1: through the whole thing. But in the end Adelaide couldn't
Speaker 1: get anyone to go to Fitzroy and then Tony. If
Speaker 1: you guys would remember, remember Tony like at the end
Speaker 1: for hour the trade was done right before the deadline,
Speaker 1: which is not unusual now, but back then it was like,
Speaker 1: where's Tony Lockett. I'm the biggest name in the game,
Speaker 1: Where's he going to go? And I I don't know where.
Speaker 1: It's two o'clock, but it won fifty nine and fifty
Speaker 1: nine seconds it was Tony Lockert and r J was
Speaker 1: on the phone to me at two o one and said, look, mate,
Speaker 1: we'll get you in the March draft. I said, no worries,
Speaker 1: I'm going overseas. I said, yeah, you can't start training
Speaker 1: with us anyway. Come back in January, start training with
Speaker 1: the Center. We'll pick you up in the March draft.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that's all how that all happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the year in which Fitzroy eventually emerged. Their last
Speaker 1: game in Melbourne and of course over in the West. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're ahead in the Grand final, so Glenn Freeborn position
Speaker 1: to move there, David King act of violence and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden the ebs away. But it was an
Speaker 1: amazing year for you, and it was obviously a great
Speaker 1: Grand final, twenty five touches for yourself. Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: But I didn't go to Sydney, to be honest, thinking
Speaker 1: I'd playing a Grand final. You know, I sat there
Speaker 1: on the bottom of the ladder. Obviously Tony came, yeah
Speaker 1: this is how this is my second year. So ninety
Speaker 1: five I went there, ninety six I Rodney. He did
Speaker 1: an amazing job, like to get us to a Grand Final.
Speaker 1: So when I signed with Sydney for three years, I thought, look,
Speaker 1: if we can get to laying finals, that would be amazing.
Speaker 1: But we played some incredible footage like during that year
Speaker 1: we beat North Melbourne at Princess Park. We just belted them.
Speaker 1: We came back to the SCG and there was forty
Speaker 1: five thousand people. I think it was Plugger down one end,
Speaker 1: Gary Ablett down to the other end. It was just yeah,
Speaker 1: but North, when I look back on it, probably the
Speaker 1: thing that North was just the better team, you know,
Speaker 1: I think, to be honest, I mean we were a
Speaker 1: bit unlucky. I think they got to about three goals up.
Speaker 1: I think kel came out of the center, went to
Speaker 1: hit Plug on the chest that just dropped short bounce
Speaker 1: went down the other end. It was a big two
Speaker 1: goal swing. But yeah, again I just think we were
Speaker 1: beaten by a better team. We gave our best that
Speaker 1: year and we had some good young players, you know,
Speaker 1: probably some really undervalued players in that era. You know
Speaker 1: of Mark Bays, Darren Creswell Andrew Dunkley who were senior
Speaker 1: players when I arrived, and then a good crop of
Speaker 1: young guys coming through, and also some under Kevin and
Speaker 1: Crag O'Brien Stuey Maxfield as a player who went on
Speaker 1: to be a great captain. So he was a really
Speaker 1: good team. But I think North were just better, you know,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, to be honest, and
Speaker 1: then you come back and you become an assistant under Rocket,
Speaker 1: who was just one of the most progressive thinkers there.
Speaker 3: And then you know, eventually in two thousand and two
Speaker 3: Rocket resigns. How did you find yourself to become the
Speaker 3: caretaker coach? And when you had that eight game stint?
Speaker 3: What what your goals for that eight games and what
Speaker 3: we are aspirations in terms of your coaching.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was such a weird time. And I remember
Speaker 1: the Geelong we played. I think in Rockets last game,
Speaker 1: I reckon we were three goals up with five minutes ago,
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, Okay, he's going to get
Speaker 1: through another week, because I've been around footy long enough
Speaker 1: and as you guys have to know, when yeah, the
Speaker 1: wolves are at the door, and they were at the door,
Speaker 1: there's no question. So I sort of thought to myself, Great,
Speaker 1: we're going to buy the next week. We're going to
Speaker 1: get through this game. Everything'll be fine. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: how wrong could I be? Anyway, they kicked four or
Speaker 1: five goals in the last five minutes and I always
Speaker 1: say this sportsman's night or if I'm talking, you know,
Speaker 1: to a footy club or yah having a joke. I say, look,
Speaker 1: if you as a senior coach, get beaten too the
Speaker 1: chains room by the chairman of the board and the board,
Speaker 1: grab your keys, go and grab your bag and get
Speaker 1: the hell out of there because you're done.
Speaker 2: It's over.
Speaker 1: You're not coming You're not coming back. So anyway, we
Speaker 1: get to the rooms and I've got ah, here we go.
Speaker 1: There's Richard and I think it was Cole Siri and
Speaker 1: kel Templeton. Oh my god. It was just and so
Speaker 1: the players had to buy week the next week, so
Speaker 1: I think Goodyear was due to fly at that night.
Speaker 1: There was a function on. It was sort of everyone
Speaker 1: was sort of do their own thing. Kelvin Templeton from memory,
Speaker 1: wanted us to play a full scale practice match the
Speaker 1: next morning, and I'm going, this is this is not
Speaker 1: going to end it well anyway anyway, So right Rodney,
Speaker 1: and at this stage, to be fair to Rocket, it's
Speaker 1: sort of he didn't want to do it, but he
Speaker 1: had to because it was almost like if you have
Speaker 1: to keep your job, So he called a training session
Speaker 1: for the next morning. I think that the ring goods
Speaker 1: you at the airport and get him back. There was
Speaker 1: a function on that night upstairs, so I went to
Speaker 1: the function assistant coach, and I won't mention the group
Speaker 1: of players hay gone, boys, not, we're not We're not
Speaker 1: turned up the train in the morning, I said, guys,
Speaker 1: you have to turn up. Nah, we're not turned up,
Speaker 1: said guys, you have to. I have to talk him
Speaker 1: into they weren't going to turn up the training. I
Speaker 1: had to talk him in the turn. Anyway, they turn up,
Speaker 1: we get rocket does the scarecrow. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've walls. He introduced this back in Wavey one day.
Speaker 1: So you've got to put your arms out parallel and
Speaker 1: you've got to hold them there for as long as
Speaker 1: you can. So it's called the scarecrow. And as soon
Speaker 1: as well as soon as you did the scare coke,
Speaker 1: he's done, he's done. It's the funniest you can see
Speaker 1: because the knees start to go to ground, and then
Speaker 1: the chest starts to go to ground, and then the
Speaker 1: shoulder starts to go. So basically the guys are lying
Speaker 1: on the floor trying to kick them arms up. It's hilarious. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So Monday comes around and I'm sitting in my office.
Speaker 1: My office is next to Rockets and I get a
Speaker 1: phone call. I think it was Steve Quatermain First and
Speaker 1: Quarters rings me and goes, oh, Uz, you just want
Speaker 1: to get a quote about Rocket giving it away. I'm like, mate,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about anyway. About twenty
Speaker 1: minutes later, Johnny Blakey means me, and Johnny goes, mate,
Speaker 1: what's happening to Rock And I heard he's given away?
Speaker 1: I said, mate, I don't know what you're talking about anyway.
Speaker 1: I get out of my office. I walk into Rocket's office.
Speaker 1: He's dead set five meters are that? I said, mate,
Speaker 1: I've just had two phone calls. Are you going to
Speaker 1: you've given it? You're getting given away? Because yeah, this afternoon,
Speaker 1: so I found I find out through a reporter and
Speaker 1: it's an inmate. And then the next couple of days,
Speaker 1: we honestly, the club honestly didn't know what to do with.
Speaker 1: At one stage we had a discussion around I think
Speaker 1: it was myself, Steve my Laxos, and John Longmy with
Speaker 1: the assistants, would we share it? Will we do it collectively?
Speaker 1: And then Dennis Carroll and Calvin I think it was,
Speaker 1: and and Richard must ask me, and then I had
Speaker 1: to agree to do it for the rest of the year,
Speaker 1: which I did and then coach ten games. So it
Speaker 1: was a really weird, strange period. And that was probably
Speaker 1: the first time I'd ever thought, do I really really
Speaker 1: want to coach an AFL team? Because when you're an assistant, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're sort of able to sit back and watch and
Speaker 1: you know, and then you don't really need to make
Speaker 1: a decision until maybe a job comes up and you say,
Speaker 1: if someone rings, you're going to apply for this job.
Speaker 1: But really it happened so quickly. It was just a
Speaker 1: crazy time when I look back on it, and.
Speaker 2: It rolled on. Then you got on a momentum.
Speaker 4: You clearly had a real close connection to the group
Speaker 4: and of the supporters as well, which worked really well.
Speaker 4: At what stage did you think, I think Terry Wallace
Speaker 4: is a big chance to get this job?
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting again, you probably got more clarity when
Speaker 1: you look back because when I was coaching, and we
Speaker 1: also did something with it. We took our young blokes
Speaker 1: down to Melbourne to give an experience of because obviously
Speaker 1: we didn't play finals. We took out young bikes down
Speaker 1: to experience like Melbourne and what it was like to
Speaker 1: play finals. So I was sort of still working, you know.
Speaker 1: So this noise was going around Terry Wallace and that
Speaker 1: and that, and I also remember and then there was
Speaker 1: a Choose Ruse campaign like you said, and the players
Speaker 1: who I got on well with and we won six
Speaker 1: of our last ten games, so.
Speaker 3: And embracing poor Rush, which is trying to figure who
Speaker 3: was in the there's a picture Patly. Absolutely all the
Speaker 3: players got around him.
Speaker 5: Went Bruce Ruce Ruse and then doesn't send a message.
Speaker 1: Everything that's going well, but there was sort of this
Speaker 1: dark cloud. This Terry Wallace was and I knew Terry
Speaker 1: pretty well, you know. And Terry was managed by my
Speaker 1: same like that managed me, which was which was pretty
Speaker 1: weird anyway. But I remember Neil Cordy rang me and
Speaker 1: and Chords rings me. Goes Rusie when he when you're
Speaker 1: presenting to the board, and I said, odd, no idea,
Speaker 1: what do you mean he goes? I was told you
Speaker 1: were presenting to the board. And I said, well, I'm
Speaker 1: been told that he goes. He literally said to me, goes, mate,
Speaker 1: I think you better ask. So I rang Andrew Island.
Speaker 1: I said, Andrew, do you want me to present to
Speaker 1: the board. He goes, oh, I think it'd be a
Speaker 1: good idea. I think they were hoping that I never
Speaker 1: presented the ball and they can say, wow, we couldn't
Speaker 1: give him the job is he never gave a presentation.
Speaker 1: Cords Thankfully, Cords found out that I was supposed to
Speaker 1: present the board rang me and then I put this
Speaker 1: presentation together, and then I mean there's just look, Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I look back, you sort of feel for the club.
Speaker 1: They were trying to do the right thing. They've got
Speaker 1: Andrew alland who's just an incredible, you know, football act him,
Speaker 1: and they've got a coach in Terry Wallace that wants
Speaker 1: to come. Now. I've still no one's ever told you
Speaker 1: that it's absolutely true, but I think we need we
Speaker 1: know enough now to suggest there's probably a certain amount
Speaker 1: of truth to it. But yeah, it's a tough position
Speaker 1: of the club. They've got Paul Ruse, who's coach ten games,
Speaker 1: and they've got Terry Wallace sort of things. So if
Speaker 1: I'm in that position, and I think I think everyone's
Speaker 1: happy have turned out. So that's that's another That's another
Speaker 1: good part of it as well, including Terry, because he
Speaker 1: probably got a shitload of money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did. And so for those who don't know,
Speaker 3: you know, he was contracted to the club. He's never
Speaker 3: actually admitted it. He's got a confidential out of agreement.
Speaker 3: So have you ever asked Terry or have ever asked
Speaker 3: Richard or Kelvin and said, hey, did he actually have
Speaker 3: this contract or is it just we just accepted that
Speaker 3: was what happened.
Speaker 1: At the time. They publicly they denied it, and you know,
Speaker 1: and I never really, to be honest, it didn't worry me.
Speaker 1: It was sort of like I've always been a bit
Speaker 1: about things happened for a reason. You know, I've never
Speaker 1: asked Terry. Yeah, people have joked to me, and Terry's
Speaker 1: been on the radio and joked about it at a time.
Speaker 1: So look, good luck to him, to be honest, And
Speaker 1: I've always got on really well with Terry. Great player,
Speaker 1: great coach. There's never any animosity between the two of us.
Speaker 1: And as you can see internally, even in the footy club,
Speaker 1: we moved on really quickly.
Speaker 4: Was there one tipping point you reckon ROUSI I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously the crowd, the people power went out, didn't it
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways. Was there one tipping point
Speaker 4: that you wreck and got you the job, not just
Speaker 4: wins the losses, but there would have been in utiny.
Speaker 1: I think it was when I've talked to Richard Collis
Speaker 1: about it, not directly about Plow, but I think it
Speaker 1: surprised the club how passionate the fans were, and I
Speaker 1: think he he credits that with the turning point of
Speaker 1: the club, like in terms of the popularity, you know,
Speaker 1: the love of fitz Sidney, you know, as a really
Speaker 1: tribal club, because we know the tribal nature of the
Speaker 1: VFL and where it came from. But I think he
Speaker 1: even people that preps at the time were thinking, hope
Speaker 1: Brews he goes away, and I say that respective for Richard,
Speaker 1: because we've got a good relationship. I think he would
Speaker 1: credit that, and he said that to me before that.
Speaker 1: He really credits that galvanization of himself and the fans
Speaker 1: and the chows Ruse as really a turning point for
Speaker 1: the footy club.
Speaker 3: It caused everyone to revisit this amazing quote here as well,
Speaker 3: this is you talking about Terry Wallace. You know they
Speaker 3: told me they hadn't spoken to Wallace directly. I'd be
Speaker 3: shattered if that turned out to be untrue. Isn't it amazing?
Speaker 3: Just the lies and the bullshit that goes on in football? Hey,
Speaker 3: so those early years, how close were you when when
Speaker 3: Wayne Carey moved on, of course in disgrace from North Melbourne,
Speaker 3: he flew into Sydney and you had to chat with him,
Speaker 3: You and John Longmoy, how close were you to securing
Speaker 3: the great Wayne Carey. Yeah, we went through a process
Speaker 3: and the process included speaking Anthony Stevens and so we
Speaker 3: did a lot of due diligence on that. You obviously
Speaker 3: had a lot of respect for Wayne as a club,
Speaker 3: have a lot of respect for, you know, for Anthony
Speaker 3: Stevens and that football club. So we did a lot
Speaker 3: of work around it, and we actually felt probably a
Speaker 3: good fit was Sydney getting Wayne out of.
Speaker 1: A high profile album. We've seen what that had done
Speaker 1: to Tony Lockett, the profile and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: So we did an enormous amount of work behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: in front of the scenes and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: And in the end, you know, he chose to go
Speaker 1: to Adelaide, which was which was fine.
Speaker 3: And what did STEVEO say about it again. I mean,
Speaker 3: you guys get sort of hung on the no dickheads
Speaker 3: policy anytime there was anyone who borderline character there, But
Speaker 3: what was Steve O's view on it?
Speaker 1: I look at them in their private conversations, But we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have pursued you know. We again, we've done a
Speaker 1: lot of research on a lot of different players, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think that was one of the strengths
Speaker 1: of the football club is you know, if there was
Speaker 1: if there was something that happened to a player and
Speaker 1: needed to be looked up, we'd always talk to our
Speaker 1: leadership group. They would do some research as well, do
Speaker 1: you want to play with this particular player, what do
Speaker 1: you think, et cetera, et cetera. If there's any other
Speaker 1: conversations that need to take place, we would always we
Speaker 1: would always have those conversations, and we would never pursue
Speaker 1: a player to the detriment of the culture or to
Speaker 1: the detriment of the football club. So we would we
Speaker 1: would always have those conversations.
Speaker 2: We're surprised how quickly it turned around.
Speaker 4: Like two thousand and three, at three quarter time in
Speaker 4: that prelim final, you're only a couple of points behind
Speaker 4: banged up Brisbane the year after, you know, you lose
Speaker 4: to Securita in a semi final.
Speaker 2: The wheel turned very quickly, Husey, didn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, Like it's funny when I again, it's
Speaker 1: only when you're sort of reflecting it, whether you're writing
Speaker 1: a book, you hear it is the book I wrote
Speaker 1: or whatever, because at the time when you're doing it,
Speaker 1: you're just trying to win. You're just trying to get
Speaker 1: your squad together, you're just trying to get good coaches
Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. But it probably started
Speaker 1: Round five. Were one and four going in the round
Speaker 1: five against Melbourne at the SCG, and we were picked
Speaker 1: by fourteen of the sixteen age riders to finish bottom
Speaker 1: of the ladder going into two thousand and three, So
Speaker 1: it wasn't like we were Yeah, we were seen as
Speaker 1: the worst team in the competition. And I can sort
Speaker 1: of you know, Tony Lockett second coming had finished, Paul
Speaker 1: Kelly and Andrew Dunkley, Mark Bays, Darren Kresl had one
Speaker 1: year to go, so there's a lot of great players
Speaker 1: that had finished. And then I remember we were ten
Speaker 1: points down against Melbourne the following two weeks we had
Speaker 1: Collingwood and Brisbane Lions are two Grand finals from the
Speaker 1: and we kicked ten goals in the last quarter. We
Speaker 1: beat Brisbane and colling with the next two weeks, so really,
Speaker 1: I mean even like that quickly, and then we started
Speaker 1: playing some amazing footy. Again we got beaten by the
Speaker 1: better team, but we were going really well. We had
Speaker 1: a good record against Brisbane and credit to Lee, he
Speaker 1: sort of changed his game style a bit against us
Speaker 1: in the prelim final, which was a great coaching move,
Speaker 1: but they were too good for us in that game.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, five, we built on the momentum we
Speaker 1: had over those first two years and the players gave
Speaker 1: themselves and yeah, so it did happen, probably quicker than
Speaker 1: anyone thought. Really, can I.
Speaker 2: Read you this quote from two thousand and five.
Speaker 4: I don't like at all the way they're playing football,
Speaker 4: but that's just a personal view. Would be fair to
Speaker 4: say that in the early part of the season we
Speaker 4: saw some games that weren't attractive, and I think they've
Speaker 4: been described as ugly. Andrew Demetrio, how much did that
Speaker 4: get up your goat? And even today does it still
Speaker 4: sort of ring and hurt you?
Speaker 3: A little.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Like My first immediate response, and I've said
Speaker 1: this before, is can you imagine the CEO of Coca
Speaker 1: Cola saying don't drink Coca Cola in New South Wales,
Speaker 1: drink PEPSI Like, it just seemed a really bizarre comment.
Speaker 1: We were the only team at the time in Sydney.
Speaker 1: I was really surprised that no one held him accountable
Speaker 1: from the AFL, like, and I also knew that he
Speaker 1: couldn't coach us once and I knew that I couldn't
Speaker 1: run the AFL, So I was really clear on So
Speaker 1: it didn't really affect this much, to be honest, and
Speaker 1: being I remember being on one of the big sports
Speaker 1: shows not long after he said it, and legitimately the
Speaker 1: host said, Ruisie, what did he mean by ugly footing?
Speaker 1: Because it's a rugby league town, it's a physical town.
Speaker 1: It's a town that likes toughness, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So look, it didn't really affect us at all, to
Speaker 1: be honest. Did we use it at times? Yeah we did.
Speaker 1: And did we feel like the AFL was against us?
Speaker 1: Probably at times we did. Yeah, there's no question about that.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that comment. It was just really
Speaker 1: really bizarre thing for the af L CEO to say,
Speaker 1: we just knew we were out of form. We knew,
Speaker 1: you know, we were what we were capable of. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was a bit of a weird time.
Speaker 3: How did you use it? Is it there sticking up
Speaker 3: on the walls.
Speaker 1: Not so much that, but we generally felt the way
Speaker 1: we played impacted the umpires and that comment, which which
Speaker 1: that was probably one part of it. We did feel that,
Speaker 1: you know, there was times where we were umpired differently.
Speaker 1: It was interesting. I can't remember which coach it was.
Speaker 1: Came to coach maybe in six o seven or whatever
Speaker 1: after we won the premiership and made a really interesting
Speaker 1: comment doing the review and said, guys, it's funny now
Speaker 1: that I'm here, I actually realize that you are umpired differently.
Speaker 1: And that was that was really now. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was intentional. It's a bit like what's happening now
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So this was this is not
Speaker 1: a criticism of the umpires, but umpires are human, you know,
Speaker 1: we want the ball moving, we want this, we want that,
Speaker 1: we want goals to et cetera. So that was just
Speaker 1: a really interesting comment coming from a coach that had
Speaker 1: come from another club. So no, we didn't stick it
Speaker 1: up on the walls and use that false motivation. But
Speaker 1: I think the players felt because they're on the ground,
Speaker 1: they know when a Freddy kicks paid and not paid.
Speaker 1: And again I'm not suggesting at all it was intentional,
Speaker 1: but that was the feeling that the players got, So
Speaker 1: it was really more just they felt it. We used
Speaker 1: it and didn't make any difference. Who knows.
Speaker 2: Really, it's a subconscious thing more than anything else.
Speaker 4: I suppose in a way like as you met I
Speaker 4: think you got to find didn't you in that final
Speaker 4: series for sending it was a Barry Hall over to
Speaker 4: the umpires at one stage of the game. And strangely
Speaker 4: enough I found out here that in Grand Final week
Speaker 4: you actually met up with Jeff Gieshen.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that. Yeah, we had a bit of
Speaker 2: it umpires coach at the time.
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, yeah, we had a bit of a blow
Speaker 1: up because I don't think I wanted the umpire that
Speaker 1: they were going to make from the prelim final or
Speaker 1: something like that, So we had a bit of a
Speaker 1: We had a bit of.
Speaker 2: A blow up where you have the blow up where
Speaker 2: it was this.
Speaker 1: I think it was on the phone first, and then
Speaker 1: it's again it's a fair while ago now to be fair,
Speaker 1: Look again, I can't speak highly enough of the umpire
Speaker 1: and departments and even Jeff. I mean, it's a tough job,
Speaker 1: it really is. It's a really hard job, you know.
Speaker 1: And they're human, you know, they read the paper, they
Speaker 1: know what's going on, and they're you know, there are
Speaker 1: one hundred percent impartial. But it's like you and I
Speaker 1: like people say you have favorite players. Of course, you
Speaker 1: have favorite players. You guys have favorite players. You have
Speaker 1: favorite teams, you know, And I'm not suggesting the umpires
Speaker 1: have favorite teams. But the umpires are human. With the
Speaker 1: Brownlow Medal is a great example. Now the Brownlow Medals
Speaker 1: are marketing. And I'm I'm not suggesting the best players
Speaker 1: don't win, but you can you normally you erl Goldon
Speaker 1: and was a Rosie last year, didn't vote in the
Speaker 1: first half of the year. They came home like a
Speaker 1: house on fire. Why because the umpires are reading the paper.
Speaker 1: We know. And I'm this again, this is no way,
Speaker 1: shape or form criticism of the My interactions with always
Speaker 1: the umpires apart from a little Blue eyed with Geese
Speaker 1: was fantastic. Rowan Sawyer's all the umpires department fantastic. Can't
Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't speak highly enough of them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you'd always have. You've got to fight your territory,
Speaker 1: as she was one of the best at that. He was,
Speaker 1: he was the genius.
Speaker 3: So you do it the hard way. So you lose
Speaker 3: the Eagles in Perth by four points. The Nick Daekoska
Speaker 3: and the Nick Davis game. Deekos could do that as well,
Speaker 3: couldn't He certain, but I don't believe it. We've had
Speaker 3: a lot of the likes of Cam Mooney, you know,
Speaker 3: I remember being at that ground and just watching the
Speaker 3: tears of Cam Mooney. But so, you know, obviously extraordinary
Speaker 3: achievement there. But I think about Brett Kirk, you know,
Speaker 3: with Nick saying you know you was after a cosmic game.
Speaker 3: It takes about your your recollections of that extraordinary four goals,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, flash of the flasher in a heartbeat. Yeah, look,
Speaker 3: it's still I believe it's the best quarter of football
Speaker 3: ever played in the final ever. I think because probably
Speaker 3: the start of the game, we're all surprised that the
Speaker 3: ground was wet.
Speaker 1: It was really weird. We turned up to the ground
Speaker 1: and the ground was wet, and I think I think
Speaker 1: their CG denied they warded it, but they clearly warded
Speaker 1: the game because it was a really low Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were getting enough Chris for low scoring games anyway, but
Speaker 1: every goal was a premium. It was just a real
Speaker 1: slog from memory. And you're right, yeah, I think Dabo's
Speaker 1: opponent ran down, set up a goal, put them four
Speaker 1: goals up in a really low scoring game. I think
Speaker 1: it was eight goals to four or something like that.
Speaker 1: And then it was probably the way that he kicked
Speaker 1: his goals, like one contested mark, you know, an unbelievable
Speaker 1: that snap that he kicked from the stoppage. There's very
Speaker 1: few players that can kick that. He's running away from goal,
Speaker 1: snapping it across his body, goal height through and how
Speaker 1: many let's be honest, how many players have you seen
Speaker 1: that could have kicked the goal to win the game.
Speaker 3: Probably ten twenty back blurt. You know, it's terrified air,
Speaker 3: isn't it.
Speaker 1: It is it's rarefied air for him to be able
Speaker 1: to do that. So look, it was it was just
Speaker 1: an incredible, incredible quarter I'm not even a quarter. Twenty
Speaker 1: minutes of football. Four goals completely dominated the game, and
Speaker 1: again I think it's the best quarter finals football I've
Speaker 1: ever seen.
Speaker 3: Any second Sons made a.
Speaker 8: Goal, blas seem any set them into the domination.
Speaker 3: And obviously gel only set up perfectly behind the ball
Speaker 3: with a throw up what twelve minutes out Jason ball
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, your guys just dragged them away.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to take us through how many times
Speaker 3: you walk through that or tactically, how you set that
Speaker 3: up for it to happen at the perfect moment in
Speaker 3: a massive final.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, that was just one of the best moments
Speaker 1: of coaching, not just for me, but for all the coaches,
Speaker 1: the player. We've worked on that for three years. You know,
Speaker 1: what are we doing this situation? But you've got to realize,
Speaker 1: this is one hundred and twenty minutes into a game
Speaker 1: of football. This is guys that are fatigued. This has
Speaker 1: got nothing to do with the coach at this particular
Speaker 1: stage of the game, and it starts before that. Leo
Speaker 1: Barry goes third up. You know, we knew we had
Speaker 1: to score. There's two players. I think it was Luke
Speaker 1: Amblett and Barry Hall knocked the ball back into play,
Speaker 1: so every single player, we had eighteen players all following
Speaker 1: the game plan and then you're right. You watch that
Speaker 1: vision and you watch every Sydney player do it, going
Speaker 1: to exactly the same spot and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: snides blocks for Nick Davis, the player that we wanted
Speaker 1: to have a shot a goal. Bearing in mind Jason
Speaker 1: Balls had got a free kick from Henry Playfair who
Speaker 1: grabbed out of his jump, but that would have been
Speaker 1: that would have been easier to kick a goal.
Speaker 3: I been very controversial as well, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then Bali just taps it down and then Davo
Speaker 1: does his stuff, So yeah, look, I think that's the
Speaker 1: value of practice, you know. And then we did it
Speaker 1: again in the in the Grand Final, which was amazing
Speaker 1: and it is your finest coaching era. I mean, that
Speaker 1: is a collective you know, to think this is the
Speaker 1: time where we got everything right. This is what crystallized
Speaker 1: the essence of coaching one percent, you know, like when
Speaker 1: I started coaching, absolutely and how do you empower the players,
Speaker 1: how do you get the players to react on the field,
Speaker 1: And I remember even Ralphie. Going back to nine and
Speaker 1: ninety nine when I'm overseas and I go to the
Speaker 1: San Francisco forty nine ers and I watched them train
Speaker 1: and the precision of their training it was off the charts.
Speaker 1: So I can even link that moment in Devo's goal
Speaker 1: to that two hours I spent at the San Francisco
Speaker 1: forty nine. It's thinking, why aren't we training game situations more? Why?
Speaker 1: Because that's what they do do. They just practice over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. So everything you're right, everything,
Speaker 1: every coachishing moment collectively up to that stage. Everything we
Speaker 1: started with the Blood's culture and the leadership group and
Speaker 1: empowering the players, you know, lead to us to Dabo
Speaker 1: kicking that goal.
Speaker 3: So Steve Cordaway calls you up and you didn't know
Speaker 3: it at that stage, but he started your senior coaching
Speaker 3: journey and then Leo Barry you star wasn't a bad
Speaker 3: way again to you know, to cap your first Grand
Speaker 3: Final victory.
Speaker 1: You don't appreciate commentators into you you win a premiership.
Speaker 3: Or who was it?
Speaker 1: I've seen it, but I can't believe it. Anthony Hudson,
Speaker 1: of course, like those I think those moments. They're going
Speaker 1: to be great moments, regardless of if it's a silent movie.
Speaker 1: To be honest, Leo marking the ball, but I think
Speaker 1: they're definitely added to by the comments. Yeah, yeah, Hardo's
Speaker 1: comment and Quarters and you know whatever. Those moments are
Speaker 1: so but yeah, I'm glad he didn't drop them. I'm
Speaker 1: glad he didn't drop the mark or it is wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been. So I've got to give more.
Speaker 2: Than to punch, didn't you Rosie?
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 2: Or we only?
Speaker 1: I was big on that two hands after the ball.
Speaker 1: So as much as I give Quarters credit, I think
Speaker 1: Leo's got to take the majority of this threat on
Speaker 1: the left.
Speaker 4: One last roll of.
Speaker 3: The dice failure.
Speaker 4: Star.
Speaker 2: Don't know where in.
Speaker 1: Premiership all history is over for the first.
Speaker 2: You get up and say here it is.
Speaker 4: It's the longest premiership drought in history, over seventy two years.
Speaker 4: What's the one story out of that day, that crazy
Speaker 4: day that still sits with you?
Speaker 1: Probably probably with the one story would be I didn't
Speaker 1: realize how big it was going to be, Like I
Speaker 1: had no idea, like I think, you know, yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: get up there and at sixty eight years at sixty
Speaker 1: nine years, at seventy years, so everyone knew it was
Speaker 1: seventy two years. I don't think that was a secret,
Speaker 1: but I had no idea how important it was to people.
Speaker 1: That that's the thing, that's that's my takeaway, and that's everyone.
Speaker 1: That's when I walked from the grand stand. I was
Speaker 1: really lucky when we coached to coach. When the when
Speaker 1: the coach spots you walked through the grandstand to see
Speaker 1: the tears, the fans to get on the ground and
Speaker 1: to see that, yeah, that the collective, you know, the
Speaker 1: guys to put money and they were all on the
Speaker 1: ground to see Barry Round and Dennis Carroll and then
Speaker 1: Richard Collis and bast Sellers and and then the next
Speaker 1: day at the at the South Melbourne and then back
Speaker 1: to the s CG and then the parade. I think
Speaker 1: that thing that hits me is how much that premiership
Speaker 1: meant to so many people. And I still get people
Speaker 1: to this day thanking me. You know, my dad passed away,
Speaker 1: my mom passed away. We went to the MCG that day.
Speaker 1: It was the greatest day of my life. Football means
Speaker 1: so much to people, it's it's incredible.
Speaker 3: I tried two games coaching Sydney sixteen finals. None of
Speaker 3: those were victories. He took off. You went to Fox Footy,
Speaker 3: you got approached by a lot of people, and then
Speaker 3: one Friday night I said to your Rouzie, just for
Speaker 3: the fifteenth time in a row, okay, you were interested
Speaker 3: in Melbourne and you said maybe, And all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: Matt brought on another amazing chapter in your football career.
Speaker 3: Why maybe you know it would be a There was
Speaker 3: a lot of money involved, but it was also i'd
Speaker 3: imagine a really strong reason for you to come back
Speaker 3: to coaching.
Speaker 1: And Eddie was on too, wasn't Eddie was like Nelie
Speaker 1: fell off his chair and then it sort of blew up.
Speaker 1: But I was always really honestly, I'm on the couch
Speaker 1: when I was doing it, and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: There was a couple of things happened. Andrew Iland called
Speaker 1: me in the office. I was coaching the Swan's Academy.
Speaker 1: He said, Rousie, we can't pay near as much. I
Speaker 1: think it was like a fifty to sixty percent paycart.
Speaker 1: And again my relationship with him was fantastic, but it
Speaker 1: was probably a signal for me that my time was up.
Speaker 1: At Sydney. That was the first thing. The second thing
Speaker 1: was probably I got approached by Brisbane to do that.
Speaker 1: And then my parents were getting older and obviously we've
Speaker 1: been away from Melbourne for a long period of time,
Speaker 1: so then you got to think about out, you know,
Speaker 1: your mum and dad and things like that. And then
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson started calling me, and then I met with
Speaker 1: the Melbourne leadership group, had a really frank discussion with them,
Speaker 1: and then a couple of them were texting me, and
Speaker 1: then it was my son, my son I was reading
Speaker 1: now the text to Dylan. Dylan goes, Dad, you have
Speaker 1: to go and coach him. You know, they deserve more
Speaker 1: than what they've had. And he wasn't being critical of Melbourne.
Speaker 1: He's probably more being complimentary with me rather than rather
Speaker 1: than that. So there was a sequence of events that
Speaker 1: happened prior to me taking on the job, and then
Speaker 1: the mechanics of the three year deal and succession plan
Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things. It's a fantastic coup
Speaker 1: for a club going as badly as it is possible
Speaker 1: to go.
Speaker 2: Paul Ruse says he finalized his decision yesterday.
Speaker 1: The worst and so the sound of the more interests
Speaker 1: I got because I'm aware it's going to be difficult.
Speaker 3: The Demons can't quite believe their luck.
Speaker 7: This is probably the most significant thing since that fellow
Speaker 7: called Rombarasi Junior over there.
Speaker 1: He left the club in nine and sixty five.
Speaker 3: It's the toughest job in foot well, the Demons. We've
Speaker 3: had PERTI jaction here and he's talked about he's talked
Speaker 3: about the challenges of Essendon where he found all of
Speaker 3: the salary cap gremlins. But he's also talked about getting
Speaker 3: to Melbourne. And I used the quote a lot. He
Speaker 3: talked about, have we got anyone here that's in the
Speaker 3: top quartele?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: So we've got to lead people in coaching or administration
Speaker 3: or all those things. And so that was an extraordinary battle.
Speaker 3: How scarred were those Melbourne people by the Mark Neild
Speaker 3: coaching situation, by the tanking hangover. I mean he must
Speaker 3: have found a fan but a player base that was
Speaker 3: just in shock, almost yeah.
Speaker 1: And the good thing was like Peter and Glenn Bartler
Speaker 1: didn't sugar coad it. So I wasn't like I thought
Speaker 1: I was coming into a place that was better than
Speaker 1: what it was. So I think that was really really
Speaker 1: important because sometimes you can sell a situation to a
Speaker 1: coach and then the coach gets there and you go wow, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I knew what Sydney was like because I was there,
Speaker 1: so that was okay. And I knew what Melbourne was
Speaker 1: going to be like because Peter had painted a really
Speaker 1: clear picture. But yeah, it was a wounded club, There's no,
Speaker 1: There's no question about that. You know, top to bottom,
Speaker 1: you know, board, staff, players, fans and had it really tough.
Speaker 1: So absolutely it was a it was a wounded football
Speaker 1: club and we had we did a lot of work
Speaker 1: to get it to where it was after after three years.
Speaker 3: So he's the headline so all his years on what's
Speaker 3: the Kelly for Christian Salem and Dom Tyson deal? Where
Speaker 3: is that on the ledger here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because we had the unnamed recruiter talking
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 3: Recruiter. We love an unnamu.
Speaker 1: I love the unnamed recruiter and I think out of
Speaker 1: Kelly and Salem, there's only one Premiership player out of.
Speaker 3: The two of them. Yes, that's right, that's right, right.
Speaker 1: That's not been a bit harsh, is it?
Speaker 4: I know?
Speaker 3: But that doesn't always reflect the quality of the player.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, But what it does do it
Speaker 1: reflects the strategy of the football club. I'm a massive
Speaker 1: Kelly fan. And but again I've said this a hundred times.
Speaker 1: In our list, Billings was number two or before before Kelly.
Speaker 1: I did my research with nick Ya Laughlin and Ty Kenelly.
Speaker 1: So people think it was Kelly for it actually wasn't.
Speaker 1: But what I realized, when you're a footy club that
Speaker 1: needs to get off the bottom, one player doesn't make difference.
Speaker 1: Jason Horn Francis goes to North Melbourne, that's not going
Speaker 1: to make a difference. But if you can turn one
Speaker 1: pick into three and four and five, that's when you're
Speaker 1: making a difference, you know. So that was the philosophy
Speaker 1: behind it, And yeah I've been a bit of a
Speaker 1: smart ass, but the philosophy is to get more than
Speaker 1: one player, not to compare a player with another player,
Speaker 1: because whether it's Kelly or Billings, yeah they would have
Speaker 1: been really good for the Melbourne Football Club, but at
Speaker 1: that time we had to take a risk to get
Speaker 1: more than just one player. And again I think it's
Speaker 1: just been proven. You know, the philosophy. If you throw
Speaker 1: that in with all the other things because it's easy
Speaker 1: to you know, it's easy to pick one thing. But
Speaker 1: I think when you look at the philosophy of the
Speaker 1: Melbourne Football Club within that period, when your factor in
Speaker 1: Bernie Vince and Daniel Cross and Clayton Oliver and Angus
Speaker 1: Brace and Christian Petrarca, even like guys like Tommy Bug
Speaker 1: and Sam Frost, you know that had a significant impact
Speaker 1: on the club while it was really struggling to win
Speaker 1: four seven ten games. That's the philosophy that I think
Speaker 1: sometimes gets missed. And when the unnamed recruiter just looks
Speaker 1: at the name, then the unnamed recruiter's got no idea
Speaker 1: what he's talking about.
Speaker 3: So I assume it's twenty year welfare Blokes comes to
Speaker 3: you and says, well, christ supertrack is Torney's acl and
Speaker 3: look how did he do it? I think he was
Speaker 3: trying to dunk a basketball in the backyard ring tell
Speaker 3: us that story. And how much satisfaction do you get from,
Speaker 3: you know, from drafting those guys who are going to
Speaker 3: win a premiership. And of course Petracka and Oliver so
Speaker 3: instrumental in that third quarter charge against the Western Bulldogs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll track at his ankle Duncan the.
Speaker 3: Last night I did. Okay, sorry, but let the truth
Speaker 3: get in the way. Have a good story.
Speaker 1: Ja c l was the training, which was really sad
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Again, that's the education piece, Like I
Speaker 1: think Track was pretty clear after I said it to him,
Speaker 1: you know, but that's the education. Please. I think doing
Speaker 1: Ken did his shoulder of water skiing as well. I
Speaker 1: think that's the standards that we've tried to implement, getting
Speaker 1: young players in and getting them to set standards. Oh look,
Speaker 1: I was when sitting there watching the two twenty one
Speaker 1: premier year in lockdown in South Melbourne. I was so
Speaker 1: proud of the footy club. I sent that many text
Speaker 1: messages afterwards, you know, and got a lot of text
Speaker 1: messages from people that were really appreciative. So I'd send
Speaker 1: text messages to all I as I said Sydney, to
Speaker 1: Angus and Christian and all the players that i'd coached,
Speaker 1: Max and Simon Goodwin and Josh Marney who it was great.
Speaker 1: It was amazing because you know how much work goes
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 3: More went on at that North Melbourne. So you moved
Speaker 3: to North Melbourne and I think it's fair to say
Speaker 3: you had a big role in getting David Noble lacrosss
Speaker 3: standing football administrator. It didn't work there for whatever reason.
Speaker 3: How challenging was that given it didn't seem to be
Speaker 3: the right fit, or maybe he wasn't the perfect person
Speaker 3: for North moment at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they asked me to get involved in the recruiting process,
Speaker 1: and probably the thing that struck me. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was that surprising, but and you guys would remember this.
Speaker 1: I mean, because so many interim coaches had got jobs,
Speaker 1: and coaches were really reluctant. Assistant coaches are really reluctant
Speaker 1: to throw the hat in the ring, you know. We
Speaker 1: rang around so many coaches and ended up with three
Speaker 1: candidates David Noble, Robert Harvey g and Syracusa. So I
Speaker 1: think that's it's bad for the league, really, you now,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the answer to that is. I
Speaker 1: reckon it goes back to the Tony Elshaw Brian Royal days.
Speaker 1: It goes all way back then. So we thought he
Speaker 1: was a really good fit, had a great pedigree, and
Speaker 1: probably that club needed more of a figurehead rather than
Speaker 1: a technical And I was only involved in the football
Speaker 1: department for twelve months, and then Ben and Marfa, who
Speaker 1: was great I had a good relationship with everyone said look,
Speaker 1: David doesn't want you involved anymore. He thinks like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a part time person. You know, you're not here
Speaker 1: often enough. So that was okay. So I was gone
Speaker 1: from the football department up for twelve months. I thought
Speaker 1: the second half of the year his first year, they
Speaker 1: was starting to play some good football, starting to get
Speaker 1: some structure, starting to make some gain. But it seemed
Speaker 1: to implode really quickly, didn't it.
Speaker 3: What's your life like now you're in Hawaii, Honolulu, You've
Speaker 3: got a Performance by Design company. Tell us a little
Speaker 3: about that, and tell us a little bit about what's
Speaker 3: next or if anything in your football journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. Look, I mean, my wife's American Tammy.
Speaker 1: So we bought a place here about twelve years ago,
Speaker 1: and we were always going to leave. We probably just
Speaker 1: left about twelve months earlier than what we were because
Speaker 1: of the lockdowns in Melbourne and we had to get
Speaker 1: an exemption to get out. So we've probably got forced
Speaker 1: out a bit, you know. So we came here, we've
Speaker 1: set up here. Yeah, Performers by Designs, the leadership company
Speaker 1: which I love. So I get back to Australia fairly regularly.
Speaker 1: Now I've got a green card, I do some work
Speaker 1: with the Sun. We've got a father son leadership called
Speaker 1: the King's Table, which I'm really enjoying that I've enjoyed.
Speaker 1: I'm doing a podcast now for ABC Live, which is
Speaker 1: a daily podcast, and probably think I love about that
Speaker 1: is it's longer form, so it's not you're able to
Speaker 1: discuss things because as you guys know, the media has
Speaker 1: become so immediate now and it's take a slight bite
Speaker 1: out of that. So when you're doing your own podcast
Speaker 1: like we're doing now, you know we can have a
Speaker 1: really good conversation and we can put things in context.
Speaker 1: If you take things out of context, it's pretty hard.
Speaker 1: So I enjoy that because we have half an hour
Speaker 1: a day and we try to keep it to two
Speaker 1: or three sort of things every day. Get back to Australia,
Speaker 1: as I said, get back to the US mainland, and
Speaker 1: I really enjoy the little involvement I having footy, and
Speaker 1: love the leader ship stuff, and love passing my experience
Speaker 1: on to fathers and sons and executives and people that
Speaker 1: want to learn, and obviously performs Bodies Iron. We do
Speaker 1: a lot of work with a lot of great teams.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Sacked.
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