Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never
Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes in the contact with crime is
Speaker 1: left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into
Speaker 1: this world. Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers.
Speaker 1: I first heard about today's guests, like a lot of
Speaker 1: other people, Jude to what seemed to be an outrageous career,
Speaker 1: crashing funerals on behalf of deceased persons. He literally delivered
Speaker 1: voices from the g at these funerals. He became known
Speaker 1: not just here in Australia but internationally as the coffin confessor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about none other than Bill Edgar, the original
Speaker 1: Coffin confessor. We talk a lot about death on I
Speaker 1: Catch Killers podcast, so Bill seemed like an obvious guest
Speaker 1: who could give us a different perspective on life and death.
Speaker 1: I got to say I had preconceived ideas on who
Speaker 1: Bill must be, and if I'm honest, I thought he
Speaker 1: might be someone that didn't fully appreciate the emotions of
Speaker 1: someone passing from this world. Well, I've got to say
Speaker 1: I got it totally wrong. My perception of who I
Speaker 1: thought Bill was could not be further from the truth.
Speaker 1: Having prepared for this podcast and talking to Bill reading
Speaker 1: his books, I was inspired and learned things not only
Speaker 1: about death, but also important lessons about how to live
Speaker 1: your life. Bill's own life story is also very powerful,
Speaker 1: and today we're very fortunate to sit down and be
Speaker 1: entertained by Bill Edgar. Bill Edgar, welcome to I Catchkillers.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Well, it seemed like a natural fit given your profession
Speaker 1: and the title of the podcast here, I Catch Killers.
Speaker 3: So I thought that it's time we met and had
Speaker 3: a chat.
Speaker 1: You heard in the introduction that I had a perception
Speaker 1: of who you might be doing the type of work
Speaker 1: that you're doing with turning up at funerals delivering eulogies
Speaker 1: requested by the deceased. But I've got to say, Bill,
Speaker 1: I was wrong. I have read your book and I
Speaker 1: know we spoke about it in the last couple of days,
Speaker 1: and very deep, very reflective on what life and death
Speaker 1: is all about, and the consideration you have for what's
Speaker 1: actually taking place at the funeral came out in the
Speaker 1: pages in the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think your perception's pretty spot on, though. I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody that first hears of me, or even prior to
Speaker 2: meeting me, even through in my background and childhood, they
Speaker 2: think that I've got tattoos, piercings, you know, I'm a
Speaker 2: bikey type person and all that, and I'm really not.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've always tended to be a straight shooter
Speaker 2: and the individual. I don't follow anyone. I'm just me.
Speaker 2: But when people get to know me like you have
Speaker 2: and through the books, Yeah, it changes in mind and
Speaker 2: perspective on who I am, what I do, and how
Speaker 2: I do it, and it's all it comes, you know,
Speaker 2: it just comes from me within. It's nothing else. It's
Speaker 2: just me. I'm true to myself and my integrity is everything.
Speaker 1: It certainly comes across there. And when we're talking integrity, it's, yeah,
Speaker 1: at a very important time when someone this is they're
Speaker 1: passing from this earth to wherever they go and making
Speaker 1: sure that you retain your integrity of.
Speaker 3: What you do.
Speaker 1: What I like about the fact, and we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about your life because your life is worthy of
Speaker 1: episodes on my catch Killers in itself, not just your
Speaker 1: new career. But you're a tough guy, but you're not
Speaker 1: afraid to talk about your emotions, which is quite refreshing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've never hid behind anything. I've never been a
Speaker 2: victim either. I've always been a survivor. It's something that
Speaker 2: I've always done. I don't know why I never sort
Speaker 2: of became like all the other victims. Is where you know,
Speaker 2: you turn to alcoholic drugs in the streets and depression
Speaker 2: and everything else. I think I just needed to better myself.
Speaker 2: I always had this thing where I needed to be
Speaker 2: a better man. It was going to happen one day,
Speaker 2: and it only happened through hard work and determination. And
Speaker 2: obviously you've got to have courage and strength and everything else.
Speaker 2: But I saw the falseness in people, very very young age.
Speaker 2: I could see the wall that people have and once
Speaker 2: you got through that wall, that look, that demeanor, that
Speaker 2: steroid type person, you know, it was easy for me,
Speaker 2: very easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking the other day when we're having a
Speaker 1: chat about people that present those tough guys and they're
Speaker 1: juiced up, bulging muscles, covering in tattoos. Quite often, quite
Speaker 1: often that that's the case. They're hiding their own insecurities
Speaker 1: by presenting that way.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Look, I've worked on doors of nightclubs you all
Speaker 2: around Australia, and I've met some of the biggest men,
Speaker 2: and I've got to be honest with you. There's a
Speaker 2: story I can touch on where I stood in front
Speaker 2: of a man that was seven foot one. It was
Speaker 2: just massive. And he's in movies now and his name's
Speaker 2: Nathan Jones. And I was looking at his bellibun, his
Speaker 2: enormous figure. Sure puts the fear into a lot of people.
Speaker 2: But I saw that man, his emotions. I saw how
Speaker 2: scared he was inside, you know, and I could see
Speaker 2: through everything that was on the outside. I never had
Speaker 2: a problem with Nathan, not at all. I know that
Speaker 2: he got in a bit of trouble in Bogger Road
Speaker 2: where I was. But I never had a drama with him.
Speaker 2: I was never feared of him. I was more feared
Speaker 2: of the little skinny bloke that was sitting in the
Speaker 2: corner that just murdered Shanni King. That really feed me.
Speaker 1: Well, the fact that you've got the perception to understand
Speaker 1: the risk associated with that. That shows and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about it on the podcast. The life that you had
Speaker 1: and one of the points being a seventeen year old
Speaker 1: and Bogga Prison which is an adult prison with a
Speaker 1: pretty tough reputation. So yeah, you survived, but you've got
Speaker 1: to survive by having those instincts to know where the
Speaker 1: threat lies. So that certainly comes across. But look, reading
Speaker 1: the book it made me and it took me the
Speaker 1: places I didn't think I would go. Reading your book
Speaker 1: it made me reflect on my own mortality and death
Speaker 1: and everything that life has to offer, the good, bad
Speaker 1: and the stuff in between. So we'll break down the book.
Speaker 1: But first of all, what you're known for widely known,
Speaker 1: and when I say not just here in Australia, internationally,
Speaker 1: you've tapped into something that people find fascinating with the
Speaker 1: work that you do as a coffin confessor, Tell me
Speaker 1: how you got into that line of work. Tell us
Speaker 1: a story about your first first time you're employed to
Speaker 1: do that or first contracted to do that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I was investigating claims through a gentleman. I am
Speaker 2: a private investigator, have been since two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: and I was but I'm in the I'm more in
Speaker 2: the finance world of investigations. So I was looking at
Speaker 2: the theft of moneys from this gentleman through his accountant.
Speaker 2: And I'd been working for him for about six weeks
Speaker 2: and I got to know him really well. What I
Speaker 2: didn't know. I knew he was sick, but I didn't
Speaker 2: know he was that close to death. And the more
Speaker 2: I got to know him, the more we spoke about death,
Speaker 2: the afterlife and all those things. And I said to him,
Speaker 2: I said, you know what, you should do your own eulogy.
Speaker 2: And he says, oh, look, I've just come back from
Speaker 2: the funeral and the family watched this man's eulogy first
Speaker 2: and they found it disrespectful, so they didn't play it.
Speaker 2: And that's going to happen with mine, I think, So,
Speaker 2: you know, I've got to find something else to do.
Speaker 2: And it was a joke. Seriously, I just said, I said,
Speaker 2: you know what, Graham, I said, I could always crash
Speaker 2: your funeral for you, and we left it at that.
Speaker 2: A couple of weeks later, I get this text and
Speaker 2: it says, Bill, You're going to crash my funeral for me.
Speaker 2: I'm going to pay your ten grand to do it.
Speaker 2: And I'm like what. So I go and see him
Speaker 2: again and we speak about what he wants and how
Speaker 2: he wants it done, and again, as an investigator, I'm thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: these claims are a bit outrageous. Maybe if I can
Speaker 2: investigate the claims. And I asked him if I could
Speaker 2: set up a couple of cameras in his bedroom. And
Speaker 2: the bedroom looked right down the hall to the kitchen,
Speaker 2: and his wife was beautiful, his daughter's beautiful, everyone's really nice.
Speaker 2: And he said that his best mate is trying to
Speaker 2: infiltrate his family and trying to have sex with his wife.
Speaker 2: I thought, what So anyway, I set the cameras up
Speaker 2: less than twenty four hours, I had everything I needed.
Speaker 2: This guy was an absolute scum. He was coming around
Speaker 2: and he was trying to get onto his wife. He's
Speaker 2: spilling a cup of tea on his own shirt to
Speaker 2: take his shirt off, you know, all the bullshit. It
Speaker 2: was just it was just horrid to look at. I thought, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: not a problem, Grahame, I'm doing it. I'm going to
Speaker 2: do it for you, no drama, and so he took
Speaker 2: me up on the offer. Graham eventually passed away. I
Speaker 2: attended the funeral as one of the mourners, and I
Speaker 2: sit amongst family and friends, and a specific time, Graham
Speaker 2: and I had organized that when these best mates performing
Speaker 2: the eulogy, I'm to stand up and say, excuse me,
Speaker 2: one name, shouldill I just sit down, shut up, or
Speaker 2: fuck off? The man in the coffin's got something to say,
Speaker 2: and this is what it is. And I opened the envelope,
Speaker 2: pull out the letter, and I read exactly what Grahame's
Speaker 2: words were. And Graham said to me, he said, look,
Speaker 2: he says, if there are family members there named Tom
Speaker 2: Dickon Harry, can you please tell him to stand up
Speaker 2: and fuck off. I haven't seen him in thirty years,
Speaker 2: so why are they here paying their respects now when
Speaker 2: they could have seen me for the last thirty years.
Speaker 2: They're vultures. I said, okay, no problem at all. Graham,
Speaker 2: and that's what I did.
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of points just unpacking that. How did
Speaker 1: you feel going there? Like at funerals, by the very
Speaker 1: nature of it, they are a somber place and everyone's
Speaker 1: sort of trying to be on their best behavior, and
Speaker 1: you're going to walk in there and you.
Speaker 3: Basically on a flip, it UPSI upside down. How did
Speaker 3: you feel.
Speaker 2: On the drive in? I felt very nervous and a
Speaker 2: bit uncomfortable. But the closer I got, the more I
Speaker 2: kept thinking about Graham's mate, and it was all focused
Speaker 2: on him, the hatred for him and what he'd done
Speaker 2: to his family, And I got to say, like, you know,
Speaker 2: I kept thinking about Graham laying in on his deathbed
Speaker 2: and he couldn't yell, kick or scream. He couldn't defend
Speaker 2: his family or anything, you know, So that really, I
Speaker 2: suppose empowered me to do what I did. But I
Speaker 2: didn't think of the congregation, the mourners. I didn't even
Speaker 2: see them, to be honest with you. It happened so quickly,
Speaker 2: and I had no care or concern for them. It
Speaker 2: was all about Graham in the coffin, and so there
Speaker 2: was no real real thought process about what I was
Speaker 2: doing and what harm I may have done for those
Speaker 2: left behind because it wasn't about them, It wasn't their funeral.
Speaker 1: You make that point with a lot of the different
Speaker 1: jobs that you were asked to do in that role,
Speaker 1: and you seem to hang on tightly to the fact
Speaker 1: that this is the wishes of the person whose funeral
Speaker 1: it is. So you know, if anyone should have a
Speaker 1: say in their funeral, it's a person that's in the coffin.
Speaker 1: So is that gave you strength to do the type
Speaker 1: of things that you're doing.
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, it's their funeral. And just because they're dead
Speaker 2: doesn't mean they can't have a voice. And then my
Speaker 2: voice to them. So and I, like I say to everybody,
Speaker 2: I tried to get the crowd on my side as
Speaker 2: quickly as possible. I stand up, but I do say, hey, listen, guys,
Speaker 2: this is your loved one laying in the casket or coffin.
Speaker 2: They've got something left unsaid. Let's hear what it is.
Speaker 2: You know, have for respect for them. You're not here
Speaker 2: for you. It's their funeral. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Good, good point. So what was the reaction you got?
Speaker 1: Like, I'm just I'm sitting there and I'm picturing how
Speaker 1: it would be if I was at a funeral and
Speaker 1: that popped up.
Speaker 3: What was a reaction.
Speaker 1: First of all, the so called best mate that was
Speaker 1: thought he was delivering the eulogy.
Speaker 2: I recall like he was leaving. He walked out, but
Speaker 2: there was a lady that was sitting two pews over
Speaker 2: and I heard her say, yeah, fuck off. I thought,
Speaker 2: so he's not the only one that he's done this too,
Speaker 2: so he deserved not to be there. So I found
Speaker 2: that quite inspiring, you know. I thought, yeah, yeah, good
Speaker 2: fuck off gay. Yeah. And the three relatives that were
Speaker 2: there and they stood up, they thought they were going
Speaker 2: to get applauded or something, you know, but they got
Speaker 2: told the funk off and they're like, Jesus, what a prick.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, not the prick.
Speaker 1: You set them up as in, call out the names
Speaker 1: and they're yeah, that's me, that's me.
Speaker 3: Piss off.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was asked to call their names out and ask
Speaker 2: him to stand up, and they did. They were all
Speaker 2: happy to stand up, and they were there for them.
Speaker 2: They weren't there for Graham at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did what do you think it meant for Graham?
Speaker 1: Knowing that he had that set up before he passed away,
Speaker 1: like the thoughts, these are the thoughts. Okay, I know
Speaker 1: this is going to happen. What do you think it
Speaker 1: brought to Graham? Did you get a sense of sense
Speaker 1: of that joy?
Speaker 2: I sat with Graham prior to his death, and after
Speaker 2: we'd gone through everything, after he wrote his ladder, because
Speaker 2: I helped them write the Leader obviously, but I get
Speaker 2: them to sign it, and I get a video of
Speaker 2: Graham and myself every client I've done, I have a
Speaker 2: video of a contractual agreement and Graham's face at the
Speaker 2: end of it when he was lying in the bed,
Speaker 2: and I said, Okay, Graham, or this will be the
Speaker 2: last time I ever see you again. You know, I
Speaker 2: hope everything's been on the other side, and you know,
Speaker 2: if there is anything on the other side, let me know.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Graham's face was like all lit up, and he was like, ah, Bill,
Speaker 2: if I could be a fly on the wall, I
Speaker 2: really hope I'm there. You know. It was just good.
Speaker 2: It was a good feeling.
Speaker 1: Well, you've got to think that that brought him the
Speaker 1: way you've just described that, it brought him some joy
Speaker 1: in a very otherwise sad time, so then settle the ledger.
Speaker 2: Well, it was a settle of the ledger. And I
Speaker 2: got to say when I was leaving that funeral, because
Speaker 2: after I do what I do, I just put the
Speaker 2: ladder back in the envelope and I place it on
Speaker 2: the coffin and I walk out. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if the funeral continues or not. I just walk out.
Speaker 2: But on my way out, this young girl followed me
Speaker 2: and she said, excuse me, excuse me, Bill, Bill, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yeah, how and she goes, that would
Speaker 2: be very proud, thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh the daughter.
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, an interesting start to a career that's blossomed,
Speaker 1: and we'll dig into that was just the start of
Speaker 1: something that's become I would suspect bigger than you ever
Speaker 1: imagined that it would become amazing global.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about your life, your early life. Describe
Speaker 1: your childhood.
Speaker 2: Oh, childhood was not Yeah, I didn't have one. It
Speaker 2: was a stolen It was the night before my eighth birthday.
Speaker 2: My grandfather sexually, physically and mentally abused me in a
Speaker 2: horrid way. And then the morning of my eighth birthday.
Speaker 2: I woke up and there was a bike in the bedroom,
Speaker 2: a nice spot green, shiny bike. I came out into
Speaker 2: the lound room and I wasn't happy, and my mum
Speaker 2: berated me and belted me severely for not thanking my
Speaker 2: grandfather and sitting on his lap and giving him a
Speaker 2: big kiss and a cuddle for the bike. And I
Speaker 2: ran away and I was only eight, you know. From
Speaker 2: where we were, I ran to a motel which is
Speaker 2: really well known on the Gold Coast called the Pink Poodle.
Speaker 2: That hotel I knew backwards because I used to play
Speaker 2: in that area as a street kid and a kid
Speaker 2: that used to play in the areas, you know, I
Speaker 2: knew the Pink Poodle and the surrounding suburb quite well.
Speaker 2: And I built a little cubby house which was an
Speaker 2: escape room for me. Knowing now that it was an
Speaker 2: escape room's different, but it's just like a little cubby
Speaker 2: house for me. And so that was the start of it.
Speaker 2: And the abuse went for years, and it was so
Speaker 2: terrifying and shocking. It's a horrific thing. I mean, I
Speaker 2: was horrified. I was so fucking angry.
Speaker 3: Bill.
Speaker 1: That just adds another layer to the trauma of what
Speaker 1: people like you, survivors of it that have to live with.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean like when I was in Bogger Road,
Speaker 2: I met a couple of psychiatrists that said, you know
Speaker 2: you've been abused, so you know it's possible that you'll
Speaker 2: be abused and you'll becoming an abuser. And that was
Speaker 2: the mentality back in the eighties, that's all they thought.
Speaker 2: And I wanted to just jump across the desk and
Speaker 2: ring their throat and say, you're kidding me. Half the
Speaker 2: people in jail killing or bashing child abuses aren't bashing
Speaker 2: him because they're child abuses. Because half the people in
Speaker 2: prison were abused. That's why they bash him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting point. And I learned that and
Speaker 1: Russell Manter, who you know who sadly passed away, made
Speaker 1: that point when I was talking to him and we
Speaker 1: became good friends. And what you just said, I know,
Speaker 1: evely as a cop thought, Okay, the rock spiders in prison,
Speaker 1: the prisoners will bash them if they can because they
Speaker 1: don't like the nature of the crime. And it was
Speaker 1: pointed out, you know why the prisoners hate them is
Speaker 1: because so many of us are in here because we
Speaker 1: were abused as kids. That's why we hate them with
Speaker 1: a passion. There was an age, a couple of years
Speaker 1: down the track, when you thought enough is enough, and
Speaker 1: you sought help, and you went and spoke to a teacher.
Speaker 2: You know, I was twelve years of age, living in
Speaker 2: government and I was very sporty, athletic type of kid.
Speaker 2: Didn't matter what it was. I wasn't good at. I
Speaker 2: was excellent at. I was gifted in sport. And I
Speaker 2: won a scholarship, five year, fully funded scholarship to the
Speaker 2: Southport School. My first week at the school, I was
Speaker 2: harassed by certain teachers for being a They called me basically,
Speaker 2: I had no money. I come from government housing. I
Speaker 2: wasn't worthy of being taught. I wasn't being paid. I
Speaker 2: didn't pay to go to the school. I was a literate.
Speaker 2: I had dyslexia, and you know, one teacher said, look,
Speaker 2: I don't teach idiots. Go sit in the corner and
Speaker 2: play with your thumbs. And that was my introduction to
Speaker 2: the Southport School.
Speaker 3: What a great teacher.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was yeah, class act that one. The other
Speaker 2: teacher consoled me because that teacher was so harmful to me,
Speaker 2: but consoled me in a way of abusing me. It
Speaker 2: was a nightmare. It was happening at school, and then
Speaker 2: I'd go home and it had happened at home. Then
Speaker 2: I'd wake up in the morning and I'd go to
Speaker 2: school and it happened at school. Then I'd come home
Speaker 2: at night and it happened at home. And it was
Speaker 2: just relentless. And it got to a point where I
Speaker 2: can turn around now and say I had a breakdown
Speaker 2: in a way that was so severe that I just
Speaker 2: ran away from school and home and I went to
Speaker 2: Surface Paradise and I sat in that little cubby house
Speaker 2: that I'd built years earlier, and I stayed there for days, weeks,
Speaker 2: and then I just became a street kid.
Speaker 3: Bill.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here and just listening to you tell the story.
Speaker 1: It's difficult to even comprehend how you process what you've
Speaker 1: just described on every front as a kid, where you
Speaker 1: should be protected if you're not at home, or at
Speaker 1: least the school's going to protect you, or there needs
Speaker 1: to be and balance you. You literally had no one
Speaker 1: helping you. The school that you put trust in teachers
Speaker 1: and they're doing doing the same thing.
Speaker 3: What did that do to you?
Speaker 1: They try to describe to me and the listeners what
Speaker 1: that did to a kid at that age, Like being
Speaker 1: a teenager is hard enough with everything going your way,
Speaker 1: but having all those things, what was your view on
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: There was a song that I regularly hear on the
Speaker 2: radio and in cars passing by, and it was Bob Geldoff.
Speaker 2: I don't like Mondays, and it resonated with me. And
Speaker 2: even today when I hear that song, yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: trigger for me. And you know, you shoot the whole
Speaker 2: school down, or the whole day down, and you know,
Speaker 2: and I always had that yea, the silicon chip inside
Speaker 2: her head has switched to over load all mine. Mine
Speaker 2: went more than overlaid, you know. And it was an
Speaker 2: absolute shocking thought. And I ended up breaking into a
Speaker 2: schoolboy's family home that I knew quite well. In the eighties,
Speaker 2: the early eighties, even the made of mine had a
Speaker 2: rifle rack in his car as long as they weren't loaded.
Speaker 2: You know, you could drive around with rifles in the
Speaker 2: early eighties. And I stole a rifle and okay, now
Speaker 2: I look back and it was only a twenty two,
Speaker 2: but for me, it was a rifle. It was something
Speaker 2: that was going to kill the perpetrators and people that
Speaker 2: hurt me. And that was my whole thought in my
Speaker 2: process was to steal that rifle, steal enough ammunition, and
Speaker 2: head back to the school. And yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: Did you physically go there with the intent to use
Speaker 3: the weapon?
Speaker 2: Fully intended to do what I was going to do?
Speaker 2: I wasn't. It's funny when when people are in that
Speaker 2: type of zone, there's no you don't see anything else.
Speaker 2: Like I remember breaking into the house and I couldn't
Speaker 2: tell you how I got in Today, I got no
Speaker 2: idea how I got in there. But I can tell
Speaker 2: you where the gun rack was. I can tell you
Speaker 2: the ammunition I took. I can tell you that it
Speaker 2: was a goldplay to rifle. I can tell you I
Speaker 2: got from the house to the school by a stolen
Speaker 2: boat because it was just across the river. But then
Speaker 2: everything else is a blur around me. I can remember
Speaker 2: getting to the clock tower and climbing the clock tower
Speaker 2: because I knew, I knew everything about TSS. There's not
Speaker 2: an inch of TSS that I didn't know about. And
Speaker 2: I'd get into the clock tower and I was up
Speaker 2: on the clock tower and it's like a miniature big
Speaker 2: Ben and I was in there, and the noise of
Speaker 2: the clock tower I never forget, you know, every every
Speaker 2: quarter the chimes go. But it wasn't that that got me.
Speaker 2: It was the flagpole that the little ring that just
Speaker 2: belted the little pole every time the wind. And I'd
Speaker 2: be sitting there and then I think, I know I'm
Speaker 2: going to jail. I'm going to die that day. I
Speaker 2: knew it without a doubt. I knew what was going
Speaker 2: to happen. And I loaded this rifle and it was
Speaker 2: a it was the old Western rifle. And I loaded it,
Speaker 2: and I was sitting there and I I put it
Speaker 2: under my chin and I just sat there and I cried,
Speaker 2: and I cried and I cried. Yeah, and then I
Speaker 2: stood up and I looked around, and also I could
Speaker 2: see with kids, and I could see kids playing tennis
Speaker 2: because the tennis court was right opposite the clockdown, and
Speaker 2: I could see them playing tennis. And I could see kids,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't tell you what kids they were. Although
Speaker 2: I knew everybody at the school and they knew me,
Speaker 2: I couldn't picture each or any of them. It was
Speaker 2: a blurb. But I couldn't see any teachers. I couldn't
Speaker 2: see any adults. And that's what I was there for,
Speaker 2: the teachers and the adults. And then i'd sit back
Speaker 2: down and I'd wait a little while, and I thought,
Speaker 2: I can't do this. I just can't do it. And
Speaker 2: I waited for the bell to go and everybody run
Speaker 2: into into the classes or whatever else. And I started
Speaker 2: to head down the clockdown. I could hear a familiar voice,
Speaker 2: and he was talking to these people, you know, showing
Speaker 2: him around the school. Must have been new parents, you know,
Speaker 2: of the kids that were attending the school. And I
Speaker 2: waited for his voice to slowly go in the distance,
Speaker 2: and I quickly looked around and I went through one
Speaker 2: of the dormitory houses and I escaped through the kitchen,
Speaker 2: the dorm kitchen where all the boys would go and
Speaker 2: eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner, all the boarders. And I
Speaker 2: made my way back down to the river, and I
Speaker 2: grabbed the rifle by the nozzle and I just flung
Speaker 2: it straight into the broad worder. I just looked and
Speaker 2: I went. I just walked away, and I ran into
Speaker 2: a shopping center then was called Sundale Shopping Center. It
Speaker 2: was really well known on the Gold Case and I
Speaker 2: went in there, and I walked into the movie theater
Speaker 2: and I hid under the row of seats and I
Speaker 2: just lay there and cried, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I stayed there for a couple of nights in this
Speaker 2: movie theater.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: And I was dry and I was warm, and I
Speaker 2: consoled myself. And then the next day, a couple of
Speaker 2: days after that, I stole a school uniform and I
Speaker 2: went to a state school called Southport State High School.
Speaker 2: And I walked into this state school and I saw
Speaker 2: these group of kids and I said, Oh, what grade
Speaker 2: you guys in. They said, oh, we're in grade eleven.
Speaker 2: I said, oh, yeah, me too. Where's first class? And
Speaker 2: they said, just up there and I will take you.
Speaker 2: And I so beautiful. So I went upstairs and introduced
Speaker 2: myself to the teacher, and teacher says, I didn't know
Speaker 2: I had a new student. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool,
Speaker 2: take a seat over there. And I walked in. I
Speaker 2: sat down, and the girl behind me tap me on
Speaker 2: the shoulder with a pencil and said, stop leaning on
Speaker 2: your chair, and I said, oh, sorry, And then she
Speaker 2: looked at her friend and she said to her friend,
Speaker 2: she says, I'm going to marry that boy one day
Speaker 2: and it's been forty years today.
Speaker 3: That's Lara, was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow?
Speaker 1: Wow, Because I was going to bring up the relationship
Speaker 1: you have with Lara, because it seems like it's the
Speaker 1: foundation of your whole life moving throughout your life after that.
Speaker 3: Start getting back to what you just talked about. It's
Speaker 3: very rare.
Speaker 1: I sit here and shut up and just listen to
Speaker 1: someone talk like you did. But I can't even process
Speaker 1: what you're going through at that stage, the abuse that
Speaker 1: you suffered, getting to the point where Okay, I'm going
Speaker 1: to take revenge, actually taking actions to do that, put
Speaker 1: yourself in a position where you could do that, and
Speaker 1: then whatever came over you deciding that's not what I'm
Speaker 1: going to do and walking away from it. But it's
Speaker 1: just we hear a lot of stuff on eye catch killers,
Speaker 1: but it's just mind blowing what you went through at
Speaker 1: such an early age. You mentioned the other day, I
Speaker 1: don't like Mondays and how triggering it is, and if
Speaker 1: people that don't know the song, Bob Geldof a song
Speaker 1: and it's about a girl that just don't like Mondays
Speaker 1: and ended up going to a school and doing what
Speaker 1: you were thinking of doing exactly.
Speaker 2: It was so profound, you know, Like many years later,
Speaker 2: I meant, the son of one of my abuses who
Speaker 2: reached out to me, and he said to me, he said,
Speaker 2: my father was TSS teacher for forty four years and
Speaker 2: he's confessed to abusing hundreds of boys, hundreds, and he's
Speaker 2: on his deathbed. And I said, oh, you're kidding me.
Speaker 2: He says, he also abused me at home. He said,
Speaker 2: But and I told him this story about the rifle
Speaker 2: of cocktail and that. And he said, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you know, but three years prior to what you
Speaker 2: just said, a young boy stood in front of the
Speaker 2: colcktown and blew his head off. I said, no, I
Speaker 2: didn't know that. He said, that's because of the abuse
Speaker 2: he suffered. I was like, I wasn't the only one.
Speaker 1: No, Sadly, sadly it's not always. But there's not just one.
Speaker 1: There's more. Were those the abuses your grandfather, the teachers?
Speaker 1: Were they ever called into account?
Speaker 2: On the seventh September last year went to mediation with
Speaker 2: the church and the South Pot School. And it took
Speaker 2: thirty five years to get there. Eleven lawyers, probably four
Speaker 2: different lawyer agencies, and when they finally got to the table,
Speaker 2: the church said, yeah, this happened. I was like, you
Speaker 2: stood there for thirty years calling me a liar. Now
Speaker 2: you're willing to accept what happened to me, and now
Speaker 2: I'm being forced to accept a payout. And they said, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's why we're here. I'm like, I'm here for justice.
Speaker 2: What about those that abuse me? What about them? If
Speaker 2: you accept the payout, they can continue their lives, they
Speaker 2: can keep teaching, they can do what they want. But
Speaker 2: why don't you stand with me? Why isn't the school
Speaker 2: standing with me? Why isn't this church standing with me?
Speaker 2: And enough is enough? How dare this continue? How dare
Speaker 2: we employ these people in good faith that have turned
Speaker 2: out to be absolute animals? Why didn't the church stand
Speaker 2: with me?
Speaker 1: You know? Just?
Speaker 2: And the reason being is that the school, the church,
Speaker 2: they're so scared of being outed in a way. And
Speaker 2: it's got to the point where I've spoken to one
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty three old boys. Ninety eight percent were
Speaker 2: abused sexually, physically, and mentally. A lot of them have
Speaker 2: now been paid out and accepted a pay out because
Speaker 2: justice is too hard to get. The system doesn't allow
Speaker 2: us to get justice.
Speaker 1: Well, when you've got the organization, the very organization where
Speaker 1: these things are occurring, working against getting justice and covering
Speaker 1: it up. But Bill, we could talk about this and
Speaker 1: what's wrong with the world in regards to child sex
Speaker 1: abuse all day, and it's just I think there just
Speaker 1: needs to be some ownership taken in people that are
Speaker 1: aware of this and know the organization, the shame of
Speaker 1: this that any excuse, it's just not good enough. It
Speaker 1: is not good enough that the damage that they cause
Speaker 1: to people. And when I was talking to the other day,
Speaker 1: I said that it's great the way you turned your
Speaker 1: life around, and then I checked myself. You haven't turned
Speaker 1: your life around. Your life, you didn't have an option
Speaker 1: where your life was going. You've got through your life,
Speaker 1: but your childhood was stolen from you, absolutely stolen from
Speaker 1: you by these for their How do you justify it?
Speaker 1: It's for their own sexual gratification. It's despicable and time
Speaker 1: and time again, and I just I get angry talking
Speaker 1: to people like yourself what you've been through and that
Speaker 1: the whole world's not outraged by what goes on and
Speaker 1: the way they manipulate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing, like I had an associated
Speaker 2: I won't call him a friend because I actually met
Speaker 2: him as a copper. He was a cop. Peter Jackson, right,
Speaker 2: He was the footballer Peter Jackson, unbelievable football player. He
Speaker 2: played for the Broncos South. He played for Australia. A
Speaker 2: remarkable man. Now I'm about I don't know, eighteen. At
Speaker 2: this time nineteen, I'm in and out of jail, and
Speaker 2: I'm at this guy's place. He's a drug dealer in
Speaker 2: Surface Paradise. And his name is Matthew Columbian Blake, very hard,
Speaker 2: rough man. But we got on really well because he
Speaker 2: had a pet snake and I wasn't scared of snakes,
Speaker 2: and he used to take it to the Chevron bar
Speaker 2: and he had this snake on the bar and I
Speaker 2: was just in there one day and anyway, I picked
Speaker 2: the snake up and he goes, no, I never touches
Speaker 2: my snake. It'll bite you, I'll kill you. I'm like, off,
Speaker 2: it's a carpet snake. You won't do shit. We just clicked.
Speaker 2: We got on. I was never into drugs or alcohol,
Speaker 2: but I was into food. I was so hungry, always hungry.
Speaker 2: And I told this Matthew and he had a girlfriend
Speaker 2: onnion surface. They used to love cooking, and you'll come
Speaker 2: down and have some of our food and oh fuck,
Speaker 2: the food is gorgeous. Anyway, the door gets kicked in
Speaker 2: while I'm in there eating and in comes this two coppers,
Speaker 2: both of them football players, Peter Jackson and Matthew. Turns
Speaker 2: to Peter and he goes, ah, uniform today, Huh how
Speaker 2: much you want? And then all of a sudden he
Speaker 2: goes back and they do the deal and Peter looks
Speaker 2: at me and he goes, I know you. I said yeah.
Speaker 2: I said I know you too, and he goes, do
Speaker 2: I rest you? I said no, You've never arrested me.
Speaker 2: He said where do I know you from? I said
Speaker 2: tss And he said, I fun, get out, fuck off.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be around here, clean yourself up.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, fuck off, You've just come in for
Speaker 2: a bag of drugs and you're telling me what so anyway,
Speaker 2: and it was a couple of years later, you know,
Speaker 2: Peter Jackson came out and confessed to his being sexually
Speaker 2: abused at the Southbot School and then he took his
Speaker 2: own life in ninety seven. And that's when I took
Speaker 2: up the fight.
Speaker 3: It says a lot, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Someone like Peter Jackson successful in every aspect that people
Speaker 1: would look at that. Ak's football, he's got the career,
Speaker 1: he's everything, and he was a personality, he was well
Speaker 1: liked and that, but clearly just held onto that pain
Speaker 1: from the abuse when he was a child. That's the
Speaker 1: impact that this type of thing has what got you
Speaker 1: to prison as a seventeen year olf an adult prisoner
Speaker 1: As a seveneen year off.
Speaker 2: I was in a place called Fisherman's Wharf. It had
Speaker 2: just been just hanging out and ada and just having
Speaker 2: a great time. And it was that era that you
Speaker 2: could go and you could actually sign a piece of
Speaker 2: paper saying that you wouldn't drink, but you could go
Speaker 2: into the lickle licensing area. Yeah, so I'd do that
Speaker 2: and then I'd have a couple of drinks. I hated drinking.
Speaker 2: I was never a drinker. And I went across the
Speaker 2: beach to throw up and fuck me it was main beach.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I was very young, right, I didn't
Speaker 2: know that was a notorious place for gays to hang out.
Speaker 2: It's called the spit. So I didn't know, you know,
Speaker 2: I had no idea. So I'm over there and I'm
Speaker 2: throwing up. It's late in the afternoon, and these two
Speaker 2: other guys come over that I knew, and they're going,
Speaker 2: you're right, Oh yeah, I'm right there. I said, what's
Speaker 2: going on? I said, ah, man, and then as I
Speaker 2: looked up, there's a naked man standing there, fully naked,
Speaker 2: just standing there, and I'm like, fuck man. Anyway, one
Speaker 2: of the boys goes up to you and says you've
Speaker 2: got a cigarette, and he goes, yeah, but you're not
Speaker 2: having one. So I just grabbed his packet of cigarettes
Speaker 2: and I went to walk off. I didn't touch the guy,
Speaker 2: no one harmed him. We just abused him, and really
Speaker 2: he ran away. He was scared shitless, but he ran
Speaker 2: to the police. So we're walking. I'm walking with these
Speaker 2: other two guys and we're walking across Sundale Bridge, fucking
Speaker 2: all these play these cars just come to a screech
Speaker 2: and they arrest us. And there's a detective who I'll
Speaker 2: never forget. He's just that fucking ass on the gold case.
Speaker 2: He really was. I met him later on in life
Speaker 2: and told him so. But all these police cars and
Speaker 2: they put us on the ground. The handcuffers put us
Speaker 2: in the paddy wagon, take us to the Southwort Watchhouse
Speaker 2: and they separate those two with me. I'm in my
Speaker 2: own song. They're in another cell, and then I see
Speaker 2: this guy come in and he's really well dressed and
Speaker 2: he's talking to the bloke beside myself and he goes.
Speaker 2: He says, yeah, so I can help you out, and
Speaker 2: I'll be able to help you out in the morning,
Speaker 2: and you'll go home tomorrow about lunchtime and I'll ti
Speaker 2: click straight away. He's a lawyer, right, and he's only
Speaker 2: a new lawyer, right, but he's very well mannered, well dressed,
Speaker 2: and he looks at me and he goes, are you
Speaker 2: all right? And I said, I'm not. I said, I
Speaker 2: don't know what I've been charged with. I'm here, but
Speaker 2: I don't understand the charges. And he goes, my name's
Speaker 2: Bill Potts. I'll help you, and I said, I haven't
Speaker 2: got any money. He said, don't worry about that. So
Speaker 2: he went to the front counter. I spoke with these
Speaker 2: police and the police said the charge is robbery with violence,
Speaker 2: and he goes, what was the robbery and he said
Speaker 2: a cigarette. He said, but that wasn't the problem. The
Speaker 2: problem with this young bloke is that he was with
Speaker 2: these two blokes and they wanted farm, robbery, bank jobs.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so you've done a basically what was a
Speaker 1: stealing has turned into a robbery and company and everything else.
Speaker 2: And it ended up being really bad. They said, I
Speaker 2: was looking at eight to twelve years because I was
Speaker 2: with these two people, and I was advised not to
Speaker 2: attend court after I got bail. I got bail on
Speaker 2: my own undertaking, but I was advised not to attend
Speaker 2: court with these two and to suffer the not attending
Speaker 2: court consequences rather than standing in a dock with these two.
Speaker 3: Right, because you'll get one then with them.
Speaker 2: And I did. And then when I didn't attend court,
Speaker 2: and when I finally went back to court that Jude said, okay, look,
Speaker 2: it's a misdemeanor. It's not a big crime. Where do
Speaker 2: you live? You know this? And I told him I
Speaker 2: had nothing. He says, oh, this is a six months
Speaker 2: by array. They'll look after you. You'll get you'll get fed,
Speaker 2: you'll get closed, and you'll get educated.
Speaker 1: Fucked Bill, Like, sorry, I should choose a better word,
Speaker 1: but yeah, you've been dealt some shitty cards, haven't you? Like,
Speaker 1: now you're now getting punished for being sexually abused and
Speaker 1: your life turned upside down because your life's in disarray.
Speaker 1: And then you go before the courts, maybe they'll understand,
Speaker 1: Maybe they might even ask why I'm here? Why have
Speaker 1: I got no fixed place of a bode? But now
Speaker 1: we'll send you, send you to an adult prison as
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old. That's yeah, that goes well, doesn't it?
Speaker 2: Well? It was just horrendous, absolutely horrendous.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that, like, I can't even comprehend. And
Speaker 1: I've said it on here jokingly. Walking into a new
Speaker 1: school can be intimidating as a kid, But walking into
Speaker 1: an adult prison as a seventeen year old, what was
Speaker 1: going through your mind?
Speaker 2: I was in the paddy wagon on the way up
Speaker 2: and this guy beside me. He's he was a notorious
Speaker 2: arm robber, hard as hard man, very hard, and he
Speaker 2: looks over at me and he says, give me your shoes.
Speaker 2: I said, no, away, he says, give me your shoes.
Speaker 2: He says, you will not last three minutes inside without
Speaker 2: your shoes. I said what he says, Look, he says,
Speaker 2: you take my shoes. He says. I know they're shitty shoes,
Speaker 2: he said, but you're wearing Nikes. And I'd stolen these nikes,
Speaker 2: so I had no real, fuck it yeah thing for them.
Speaker 2: But I thought, I'm not going to give Michelle. I'm
Speaker 2: a tough guy. I'm not giving. And then he told
Speaker 2: me what was going to happen to me as soon
Speaker 2: as we got out of the wagon for my shoes.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, they're going to do that for my shoes.
Speaker 2: What are they going to do? You know? So I
Speaker 2: got to know this guy really well, just on a
Speaker 2: drive up to the Brisbane watching Brisbane Boggerade, and I did.
Speaker 2: I gave him my shoes and he got out of
Speaker 2: the wagon and then I got out of the wagon,
Speaker 2: and then another guy, Aboriginal Blake, got out of the
Speaker 2: wagon and we had to stand on a yellow line
Speaker 2: and back then you had to salute. It's a real
Speaker 2: weird situation, but you had to salute all.
Speaker 3: The offices stead of a throwback, isn't it.
Speaker 2: And this average I said, no, I'm not saluting you,
Speaker 2: you fucker. No way. He got the shit beat out
Speaker 2: of him, and I was going to help, and the
Speaker 2: black took my shoes. He said, stand there and don't move,
Speaker 2: Just stand there. I shipped myself. Old mate, he was bad.
Speaker 1: I just what you've described there and that you're trusting
Speaker 1: this blake. Is he giving you genuine good advice or
Speaker 1: is he he just setting you up for whatever?
Speaker 3: But it's a world that you don't know, like.
Speaker 1: It's not like you grew up in that environment where
Speaker 1: you're in and out of boys homes and knew the
Speaker 1: lay of the land. You've gone straight in there, pretty
Speaker 1: pretty raw. Even though you're a street kid. You're tough,
Speaker 1: you can look after yourself. But it's on another level
Speaker 1: there isn't it when you're in there too. You your
Speaker 1: pet hate was the predators, the sex offenders, and the
Speaker 1: ones that wanted to take advantage of you in prison.
Speaker 1: Tell us a few stories about that. One and one
Speaker 1: in particular, and the Taurus guy Ray Garland was.
Speaker 2: They put a seventeen year old into an area that
Speaker 2: was called protection. I didn't know that. I had no
Speaker 2: idea what protection was because you're young. You know you're
Speaker 2: going into this yard. This guy came up to me, Teddy,
Speaker 2: he was walking the boundary line and he goes, hey,
Speaker 2: you come here. I said, what's wrong? And he says,
Speaker 2: see that guy out there, He says, I want you
Speaker 2: to bash him. You don't bash him, you'll be raped.
Speaker 2: What the fuck? He's a copper, he's what he's a
Speaker 2: copper bashing and you're the only one that can get
Speaker 2: in there and do it, So go and do it.
Speaker 2: I'll be watching. I'm like, So I walk up to
Speaker 2: this guy and I just laid into it and I
Speaker 2: couldn't stop. And then I was given a couple more months.
Speaker 2: I was thrown in solitary. I came out of solitary.
Speaker 2: They said, no, we're not putting him back in there.
Speaker 2: Fuck that put him in with all the other boys,
Speaker 2: which they did. And then I'm sitting there and this
Speaker 2: Aboriginal kid come in. Oh, he's walking the fence line,
Speaker 2: this other Aboriginal kid, and he had a look that
Speaker 2: is the most feared look you could ever see in
Speaker 2: a man. And he looked at me and then he
Speaker 2: walked past, and then I saw him. The following day,
Speaker 2: he dragged one of the boy's younger boys, say eighteen
Speaker 2: nineteen year old into the toilets and raped him bashed him.
Speaker 2: Two hours later, same thing to another bloke, and then
Speaker 2: another bloke, and it was just it kept going and
Speaker 2: I could see this and everybody could see it, and
Speaker 2: then you could witness it. And then I could see
Speaker 2: the guards laughing with him, giving him a high five.
Speaker 2: That guy of these fucking real bad He thinks he's
Speaker 2: a tough blake, going and getting ray. They let him
Speaker 2: in there, and he did it prolifically all over the
Speaker 2: fucking jail. All of a sudden, this one day, he's
Speaker 2: walking past my yard and he goes, hey, you come here.
Speaker 2: I said, fuck you, you come here. So he started
Speaker 2: climbing the fucking cage and I thought, he's coming in
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be prepared, fucking And there was
Speaker 2: a prisoner in there at the time. He was on
Speaker 2: remand this prisoner he was his gangster type blacker. He
Speaker 2: knew gangsters more than him being a gangster. And he
Speaker 2: said to me. He says, oh, you're fucked, and I said, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not, man He's fucked. Anyway, Glan gets back down
Speaker 2: because the screw is telling him to get down. He
Speaker 2: gets down and he looks at me and he says,
Speaker 2: you're mine. I said no, no, no, I'm not mane anyway,
Speaker 2: he starts fucking going off and I'm going off at him,
Speaker 2: and then I look at him and we have this
Speaker 2: stair down and he starts to walk away, and then
Speaker 2: something in my mind just said, hey, Garland, come here,
Speaker 2: and he did. And I remember when I was going
Speaker 2: into Boggarad and the guy who took my shoes, he said,
Speaker 2: if you're if you do what you're told, you're easy.
Speaker 2: And I said, the Garland come here. I had him.
Speaker 2: I knew I had him. I knew that wall that
Speaker 2: looked that he had it was all fucking fake. I said,
Speaker 2: we come to to toe. You're a dead man. I said,
Speaker 2: I'm coming after you. And then he looked at me
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh, mate, you got the devil in you.
Speaker 2: I don't like you. I don't want you. Fuck off.
Speaker 2: I said, you're lucky that this gate's here right now,
Speaker 2: I mean, and he just walked off and I never
Speaker 2: spoke to him again.
Speaker 3: Hopefully stays there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you've just given a real honest account of
Speaker 1: what it's like going in the prison and just whind
Speaker 1: in the backyard where it's put on you the decisions
Speaker 1: you got to make. Do I swap the shoes of
Speaker 1: my being set up here and then bash that blake. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I defy anyone to how would you react in
Speaker 1: that situation? If you ignore it that it's coming for you,
Speaker 1: you know you're going to be a victim. And I think,
Speaker 1: if anything, the abuse that you suffered as a child
Speaker 1: and the anger that you're held on to that probably
Speaker 1: carried you through there. That the way you just describe
Speaker 1: that conversation with Garland, you don't want to fuck with
Speaker 1: someone that's prepared to die on the spot, And that
Speaker 1: seems to be the way that you were putting yourself
Speaker 1: across in prison, and it might.
Speaker 2: Have look the first meal in prison is the most daunting, horrific,
Speaker 2: terrifying experience because you're going into a dining hall with
Speaker 2: all these big fucking men and they're all sitting at tables,
Speaker 2: round tables, and I'm sitting there with a tray and
Speaker 2: I've got my food on the tray, and the knives
Speaker 2: and forks are rattling so much because I'm shaking so much,
Speaker 2: and I'm so scared, And I see an opening and
Speaker 2: I put my tray on the table and I sit
Speaker 2: down and they throw the tray away and they tell
Speaker 2: me to fuck off, and I'm sitting there going I'm
Speaker 2: not going. I'm staying. I don't give a fuck what
Speaker 2: because I'm not leaving this seat. And they bashed me
Speaker 2: so bad that then they turn around and they say, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's not a bad blake, all right, Yeah he's all right.
Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck. So then I got sort of taken
Speaker 2: under a few wingsuit is good. And then I remember
Speaker 2: the next morning, I got a bowl of porridge and
Speaker 2: I had it in my hands because there was.
Speaker 3: No trace that say he didn't mind it radilely.
Speaker 2: No, My incident caused the whole prison to get rid
Speaker 2: of trays for a day, right, so I was outed
Speaker 2: because the fucking trays. Anyway, I'm holding this hot porridge
Speaker 2: and this blake behind me, he's got tear drop tattoos
Speaker 2: down his face. He's fucking just ripped and fucking hard ass,
Speaker 2: and he just walks up and slaps the porridge out
Speaker 2: of my hand, and I just look at him, and
Speaker 2: I know I'm meant for fucking hiding again, and hes
Speaker 2: that wasn't meant for you. And I said what he said,
Speaker 2: that food was not meant for you. It's got all
Speaker 2: the glass shavings in it. It's meant for the blake
Speaker 2: behind you. Ah okay, thanks, he says, don't hurt me,
Speaker 2: just fucking know when to speak. That's what he taught me,
Speaker 2: he said, No, when to speak.
Speaker 1: Hard hardcore. You've described that scene walking into the mill hall,
Speaker 1: and it's played out. You see it played out in
Speaker 1: movies time and time again, because it's just can you
Speaker 1: think of somewhere more uncomfortable to be? And you and
Speaker 1: the way you described that, I like your honesty. You're
Speaker 1: trying to Yeah, I got this covered. But the trays
Speaker 1: rattling on the cutlery, on the metal tray.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: Like if you and I hear this from people who
Speaker 1: have been inside and go inside when they don't understand it.
Speaker 1: But if you had to take that stand, you had
Speaker 1: to take that bashing, then otherwise your life.
Speaker 3: You would have been a victim your whole whole time
Speaker 3: you served in.
Speaker 2: There without a doubt. I mean I met some people
Speaker 2: that came in that was as hard as nails and
Speaker 2: they just went to water. There was a Broncos football
Speaker 2: player that can at the same time. Sam was his name, Sam?
Speaker 2: I can't remember. He came in in nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 2: he got done for drugs, him and his wife, and
Speaker 2: his wife went to the woman's john. He came in
Speaker 2: and he was a legend football player, you know, and
Speaker 2: he'd run around the oval and no one had ever
Speaker 2: seen with anybody else, but he just run around the oval.
Speaker 2: And I got to talk to him, and I realized
Speaker 2: straight out why he was doing what he was doing.
Speaker 2: It was fear, nothing more. It was just fear. Going
Speaker 2: around the oval not talking to anyone. Made him look
Speaker 2: like a real hard bastard. He was scared. He was
Speaker 2: like all the rest of us in there. We all
Speaker 2: had to find our own little niche to get over things,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's mine be I became a runner
Speaker 2: for other prisoners. The screws allowed me to become a
Speaker 2: runner deliver the messages, but I was delivered on drugs.
Speaker 1: That's It's the world. I'm not the I think. And
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking the eighties here are we.
Speaker 2: Seventeen eighteenth birthday, nineteenth twenty first birthday I got out.
Speaker 3: Prisons. It will never be perfect.
Speaker 1: They are starting to wake up to the fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, if you treat people like animals in there,
Speaker 1: or throw someone in that environment, it's not going to
Speaker 1: be conducive to coming out and you know, getting getting
Speaker 1: back into society and like speaking to young blokes in
Speaker 1: there or even blakes that have been in there for
Speaker 1: a while that you've got to bridge up anytime someone
Speaker 1: has a go at you. And then you get out
Speaker 1: of prison, you're walking along the street, someone bumps you
Speaker 1: and you're still in your prison headspace and you belt
Speaker 1: them and you're back in prison. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: a crazy thing. We've got so much to cover here.
Speaker 1: We're going to have a break now, but just your
Speaker 1: life in itself is so fascinating. When we get back,
Speaker 1: we're going to get you, get you out of the
Speaker 1: prison and how your life starts going down a different,
Speaker 1: different path and all the stories that you've got that
Speaker 1: come from the coffin confessor. So we'll take a break
Speaker 1: here and be back for part two a little later on.
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it is never Mind at Anti Nae