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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes in the contact with crime is

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Speaker 1: left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into

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Speaker 1: this world. Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 1: I first heard about today's guests, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: other people, Jude to what seemed to be an outrageous career,

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Speaker 1: crashing funerals on behalf of deceased persons. He literally delivered

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Speaker 1: voices from the g at these funerals. He became known

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Speaker 1: not just here in Australia but internationally as the coffin confessor. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about none other than Bill Edgar, the original

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Speaker 1: Coffin confessor. We talk a lot about death on I

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Speaker 1: Catch Killers podcast, so Bill seemed like an obvious guest

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Speaker 1: who could give us a different perspective on life and death.

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Speaker 1: I got to say I had preconceived ideas on who

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Speaker 1: Bill must be, and if I'm honest, I thought he

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Speaker 1: might be someone that didn't fully appreciate the emotions of

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Speaker 1: someone passing from this world. Well, I've got to say

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Speaker 1: I got it totally wrong. My perception of who I

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Speaker 1: thought Bill was could not be further from the truth.

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Speaker 1: Having prepared for this podcast and talking to Bill reading

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Speaker 1: his books, I was inspired and learned things not only

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Speaker 1: about death, but also important lessons about how to live

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Speaker 1: your life. Bill's own life story is also very powerful,

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Speaker 1: and today we're very fortunate to sit down and be

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Speaker 1: entertained by Bill Edgar. Bill Edgar, welcome to I Catchkillers.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, it seemed like a natural fit given your profession

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Speaker 1: and the title of the podcast here, I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 3: So I thought that it's time we met and had

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Speaker 3: a chat.

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Speaker 1: You heard in the introduction that I had a perception

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Speaker 1: of who you might be doing the type of work

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Speaker 1: that you're doing with turning up at funerals delivering eulogies

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Speaker 1: requested by the deceased. But I've got to say, Bill,

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Speaker 1: I was wrong. I have read your book and I

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Speaker 1: know we spoke about it in the last couple of days,

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Speaker 1: and very deep, very reflective on what life and death

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Speaker 1: is all about, and the consideration you have for what's

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Speaker 1: actually taking place at the funeral came out in the

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Speaker 1: pages in the book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think your perception's pretty spot on, though. I mean,

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Speaker 2: everybody that first hears of me, or even prior to

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Speaker 2: meeting me, even through in my background and childhood, they

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Speaker 2: think that I've got tattoos, piercings, you know, I'm a

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Speaker 2: bikey type person and all that, and I'm really not.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've always tended to be a straight shooter

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Speaker 2: and the individual. I don't follow anyone. I'm just me.

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Speaker 2: But when people get to know me like you have

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Speaker 2: and through the books, Yeah, it changes in mind and

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Speaker 2: perspective on who I am, what I do, and how

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Speaker 2: I do it, and it's all it comes, you know,

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Speaker 2: it just comes from me within. It's nothing else. It's

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Speaker 2: just me. I'm true to myself and my integrity is everything.

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Speaker 1: It certainly comes across there. And when we're talking integrity, it's, yeah,

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Speaker 1: at a very important time when someone this is they're

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Speaker 1: passing from this earth to wherever they go and making

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Speaker 1: sure that you retain your integrity of.

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Speaker 3: What you do.

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Speaker 1: What I like about the fact, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about your life because your life is worthy of

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Speaker 1: episodes on my catch Killers in itself, not just your

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Speaker 1: new career. But you're a tough guy, but you're not

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Speaker 1: afraid to talk about your emotions, which is quite refreshing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I've never hid behind anything. I've never been a

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Speaker 2: victim either. I've always been a survivor. It's something that

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Speaker 2: I've always done. I don't know why I never sort

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Speaker 2: of became like all the other victims. Is where you know,

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Speaker 2: you turn to alcoholic drugs in the streets and depression

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Speaker 2: and everything else. I think I just needed to better myself.

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Speaker 2: I always had this thing where I needed to be

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Speaker 2: a better man. It was going to happen one day,

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Speaker 2: and it only happened through hard work and determination. And

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Speaker 2: obviously you've got to have courage and strength and everything else.

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Speaker 2: But I saw the falseness in people, very very young age.

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Speaker 2: I could see the wall that people have and once

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Speaker 2: you got through that wall, that look, that demeanor, that

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Speaker 2: steroid type person, you know, it was easy for me,

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Speaker 2: very easy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking the other day when we're having a

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Speaker 1: chat about people that present those tough guys and they're

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Speaker 1: juiced up, bulging muscles, covering in tattoos. Quite often, quite

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Speaker 1: often that that's the case. They're hiding their own insecurities

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Speaker 1: by presenting that way.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Look, I've worked on doors of nightclubs you all

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Speaker 2: around Australia, and I've met some of the biggest men,

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Speaker 2: and I've got to be honest with you. There's a

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Speaker 2: story I can touch on where I stood in front

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Speaker 2: of a man that was seven foot one. It was

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Speaker 2: just massive. And he's in movies now and his name's

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Speaker 2: Nathan Jones. And I was looking at his bellibun, his

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Speaker 2: enormous figure. Sure puts the fear into a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: But I saw that man, his emotions. I saw how

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Speaker 2: scared he was inside, you know, and I could see

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Speaker 2: through everything that was on the outside. I never had

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Speaker 2: a problem with Nathan, not at all. I know that

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Speaker 2: he got in a bit of trouble in Bogger Road

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Speaker 2: where I was. But I never had a drama with him.

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Speaker 2: I was never feared of him. I was more feared

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Speaker 2: of the little skinny bloke that was sitting in the

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Speaker 2: corner that just murdered Shanni King. That really feed me.

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Speaker 1: Well, the fact that you've got the perception to understand

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Speaker 1: the risk associated with that. That shows and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about it on the podcast. The life that you had

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Speaker 1: and one of the points being a seventeen year old

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Speaker 1: and Bogga Prison which is an adult prison with a

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Speaker 1: pretty tough reputation. So yeah, you survived, but you've got

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Speaker 1: to survive by having those instincts to know where the

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Speaker 1: threat lies. So that certainly comes across. But look, reading

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Speaker 1: the book it made me and it took me the

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Speaker 1: places I didn't think I would go. Reading your book

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Speaker 1: it made me reflect on my own mortality and death

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Speaker 1: and everything that life has to offer, the good, bad

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Speaker 1: and the stuff in between. So we'll break down the book.

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Speaker 1: But first of all, what you're known for widely known,

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Speaker 1: and when I say not just here in Australia, internationally,

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Speaker 1: you've tapped into something that people find fascinating with the

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Speaker 1: work that you do as a coffin confessor, Tell me

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Speaker 1: how you got into that line of work. Tell us

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Speaker 1: a story about your first first time you're employed to

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Speaker 1: do that or first contracted to do that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I was investigating claims through a gentleman. I am

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Speaker 2: a private investigator, have been since two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 2: and I was but I'm in the I'm more in

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Speaker 2: the finance world of investigations. So I was looking at

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Speaker 2: the theft of moneys from this gentleman through his accountant.

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Speaker 2: And I'd been working for him for about six weeks

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Speaker 2: and I got to know him really well. What I

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Speaker 2: didn't know. I knew he was sick, but I didn't

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Speaker 2: know he was that close to death. And the more

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Speaker 2: I got to know him, the more we spoke about death,

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Speaker 2: the afterlife and all those things. And I said to him,

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Speaker 2: I said, you know what, you should do your own eulogy.

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Speaker 2: And he says, oh, look, I've just come back from

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Speaker 2: the funeral and the family watched this man's eulogy first

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Speaker 2: and they found it disrespectful, so they didn't play it.

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Speaker 2: And that's going to happen with mine, I think, So,

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Speaker 2: you know, I've got to find something else to do.

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Speaker 2: And it was a joke. Seriously, I just said, I said,

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Speaker 2: you know what, Graham, I said, I could always crash

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Speaker 2: your funeral for you, and we left it at that.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks later, I get this text and

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Speaker 2: it says, Bill, You're going to crash my funeral for me.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to pay your ten grand to do it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like what. So I go and see him

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Speaker 2: again and we speak about what he wants and how

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Speaker 2: he wants it done, and again, as an investigator, I'm thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: these claims are a bit outrageous. Maybe if I can

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Speaker 2: investigate the claims. And I asked him if I could

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Speaker 2: set up a couple of cameras in his bedroom. And

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Speaker 2: the bedroom looked right down the hall to the kitchen,

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Speaker 2: and his wife was beautiful, his daughter's beautiful, everyone's really nice.

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Speaker 2: And he said that his best mate is trying to

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Speaker 2: infiltrate his family and trying to have sex with his wife.

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Speaker 2: I thought, what So anyway, I set the cameras up

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Speaker 2: less than twenty four hours, I had everything I needed.

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Speaker 2: This guy was an absolute scum. He was coming around

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Speaker 2: and he was trying to get onto his wife. He's

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Speaker 2: spilling a cup of tea on his own shirt to

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Speaker 2: take his shirt off, you know, all the bullshit. It

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Speaker 2: was just it was just horrid to look at. I thought, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: not a problem, Grahame, I'm doing it. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do it for you, no drama, and so he took

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Speaker 2: me up on the offer. Graham eventually passed away. I

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Speaker 2: attended the funeral as one of the mourners, and I

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Speaker 2: sit amongst family and friends, and a specific time, Graham

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Speaker 2: and I had organized that when these best mates performing

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Speaker 2: the eulogy, I'm to stand up and say, excuse me,

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Speaker 2: one name, shouldill I just sit down, shut up, or

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Speaker 2: fuck off? The man in the coffin's got something to say,

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Speaker 2: and this is what it is. And I opened the envelope,

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Speaker 2: pull out the letter, and I read exactly what Grahame's

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Speaker 2: words were. And Graham said to me, he said, look,

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Speaker 2: he says, if there are family members there named Tom

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Speaker 2: Dickon Harry, can you please tell him to stand up

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Speaker 2: and fuck off. I haven't seen him in thirty years,

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Speaker 2: so why are they here paying their respects now when

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Speaker 2: they could have seen me for the last thirty years.

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Speaker 2: They're vultures. I said, okay, no problem at all. Graham,

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Speaker 2: and that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of points just unpacking that. How did

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Speaker 1: you feel going there? Like at funerals, by the very

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Speaker 1: nature of it, they are a somber place and everyone's

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Speaker 1: sort of trying to be on their best behavior, and

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Speaker 1: you're going to walk in there and you.

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Speaker 3: Basically on a flip, it UPSI upside down. How did

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Speaker 3: you feel.

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Speaker 2: On the drive in? I felt very nervous and a

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Speaker 2: bit uncomfortable. But the closer I got, the more I

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Speaker 2: kept thinking about Graham's mate, and it was all focused

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Speaker 2: on him, the hatred for him and what he'd done

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Speaker 2: to his family, And I got to say, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I kept thinking about Graham laying in on his deathbed

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Speaker 2: and he couldn't yell, kick or scream. He couldn't defend

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Speaker 2: his family or anything, you know, So that really, I

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Speaker 2: suppose empowered me to do what I did. But I

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Speaker 2: didn't think of the congregation, the mourners. I didn't even

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Speaker 2: see them, to be honest with you. It happened so quickly,

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Speaker 2: and I had no care or concern for them. It

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Speaker 2: was all about Graham in the coffin, and so there

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Speaker 2: was no real real thought process about what I was

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Speaker 2: doing and what harm I may have done for those

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Speaker 2: left behind because it wasn't about them, It wasn't their funeral.

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Speaker 1: You make that point with a lot of the different

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Speaker 1: jobs that you were asked to do in that role,

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Speaker 1: and you seem to hang on tightly to the fact

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Speaker 1: that this is the wishes of the person whose funeral

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Speaker 1: it is. So you know, if anyone should have a

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Speaker 1: say in their funeral, it's a person that's in the coffin.

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Speaker 1: So is that gave you strength to do the type

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Speaker 1: of things that you're doing.

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, it's their funeral. And just because they're dead

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean they can't have a voice. And then my

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Speaker 2: voice to them. So and I, like I say to everybody,

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Speaker 2: I tried to get the crowd on my side as

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Speaker 2: quickly as possible. I stand up, but I do say, hey, listen, guys,

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Speaker 2: this is your loved one laying in the casket or coffin.

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Speaker 2: They've got something left unsaid. Let's hear what it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, have for respect for them. You're not here

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Speaker 2: for you. It's their funeral. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Good, good point. So what was the reaction you got?

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Speaker 1: Like, I'm just I'm sitting there and I'm picturing how

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Speaker 1: it would be if I was at a funeral and

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Speaker 1: that popped up.

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Speaker 3: What was a reaction.

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Speaker 1: First of all, the so called best mate that was

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Speaker 1: thought he was delivering the eulogy.

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Speaker 2: I recall like he was leaving. He walked out, but

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Speaker 2: there was a lady that was sitting two pews over

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Speaker 2: and I heard her say, yeah, fuck off. I thought,

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Speaker 2: so he's not the only one that he's done this too,

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Speaker 2: so he deserved not to be there. So I found

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Speaker 2: that quite inspiring, you know. I thought, yeah, yeah, good

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Speaker 2: fuck off gay. Yeah. And the three relatives that were

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Speaker 2: there and they stood up, they thought they were going

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Speaker 2: to get applauded or something, you know, but they got

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Speaker 2: told the funk off and they're like, Jesus, what a prick.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, not the prick.

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Speaker 1: You set them up as in, call out the names

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Speaker 1: and they're yeah, that's me, that's me.

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Speaker 3: Piss off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was asked to call their names out and ask

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Speaker 2: him to stand up, and they did. They were all

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Speaker 2: happy to stand up, and they were there for them.

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Speaker 2: They weren't there for Graham at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what did what do you think it meant for Graham?

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Speaker 1: Knowing that he had that set up before he passed away,

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Speaker 1: like the thoughts, these are the thoughts. Okay, I know

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Speaker 1: this is going to happen. What do you think it

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Speaker 1: brought to Graham? Did you get a sense of sense

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Speaker 1: of that joy?

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Speaker 2: I sat with Graham prior to his death, and after

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Speaker 2: we'd gone through everything, after he wrote his ladder, because

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Speaker 2: I helped them write the Leader obviously, but I get

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Speaker 2: them to sign it, and I get a video of

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Speaker 2: Graham and myself every client I've done, I have a

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Speaker 2: video of a contractual agreement and Graham's face at the

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Speaker 2: end of it when he was lying in the bed,

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Speaker 2: and I said, Okay, Graham, or this will be the

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Speaker 2: last time I ever see you again. You know, I

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Speaker 2: hope everything's been on the other side, and you know,

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Speaker 2: if there is anything on the other side, let me know.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Graham's face was like all lit up, and he was like, ah, Bill,

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Speaker 2: if I could be a fly on the wall, I

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Speaker 2: really hope I'm there. You know. It was just good.

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Speaker 2: It was a good feeling.

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Speaker 1: Well, you've got to think that that brought him the

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Speaker 1: way you've just described that, it brought him some joy

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Speaker 1: in a very otherwise sad time, so then settle the ledger.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was a settle of the ledger. And I

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Speaker 2: got to say when I was leaving that funeral, because

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Speaker 2: after I do what I do, I just put the

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Speaker 2: ladder back in the envelope and I place it on

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Speaker 2: the coffin and I walk out. So I don't know

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Speaker 2: if the funeral continues or not. I just walk out.

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Speaker 2: But on my way out, this young girl followed me

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Speaker 2: and she said, excuse me, excuse me, Bill, Bill, And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yeah, how and she goes, that would

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Speaker 2: be very proud, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Oh the daughter.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Well, an interesting start to a career that's blossomed,

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Speaker 1: and we'll dig into that was just the start of

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Speaker 1: something that's become I would suspect bigger than you ever

296
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Speaker 1: imagined that it would become amazing global.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about your life, your early life. Describe

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Speaker 1: your childhood.

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Speaker 2: Oh, childhood was not Yeah, I didn't have one. It

301
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Speaker 2: was a stolen It was the night before my eighth birthday.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather sexually, physically and mentally abused me in a

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Speaker 2: horrid way. And then the morning of my eighth birthday.

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Speaker 2: I woke up and there was a bike in the bedroom,

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Speaker 2: a nice spot green, shiny bike. I came out into

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Speaker 2: the lound room and I wasn't happy, and my mum

307
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 2: berated me and belted me severely for not thanking my

308
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Speaker 2: grandfather and sitting on his lap and giving him a

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Speaker 2: big kiss and a cuddle for the bike. And I

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Speaker 2: ran away and I was only eight, you know. From

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Speaker 2: where we were, I ran to a motel which is

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Speaker 2: really well known on the Gold Coast called the Pink Poodle.

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Speaker 2: That hotel I knew backwards because I used to play

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Speaker 2: in that area as a street kid and a kid

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Speaker 2: that used to play in the areas, you know, I

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Speaker 2: knew the Pink Poodle and the surrounding suburb quite well.

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Speaker 2: And I built a little cubby house which was an

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Speaker 2: escape room for me. Knowing now that it was an

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Speaker 2: escape room's different, but it's just like a little cubby

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Speaker 2: house for me. And so that was the start of it.

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Speaker 2: And the abuse went for years, and it was so

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Speaker 2: terrifying and shocking. It's a horrific thing. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: was horrified. I was so fucking angry.

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Speaker 3: Bill.

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Speaker 1: That just adds another layer to the trauma of what

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Speaker 1: people like you, survivors of it that have to live with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean like when I was in Bogger Road,

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Speaker 2: I met a couple of psychiatrists that said, you know

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Speaker 2: you've been abused, so you know it's possible that you'll

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Speaker 2: be abused and you'll becoming an abuser. And that was

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Speaker 2: the mentality back in the eighties, that's all they thought.

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Speaker 2: And I wanted to just jump across the desk and

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Speaker 2: ring their throat and say, you're kidding me. Half the

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Speaker 2: people in jail killing or bashing child abuses aren't bashing

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Speaker 2: him because they're child abuses. Because half the people in

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Speaker 2: prison were abused. That's why they bash him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting point. And I learned that and

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Speaker 1: Russell Manter, who you know who sadly passed away, made

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Speaker 1: that point when I was talking to him and we

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Speaker 1: became good friends. And what you just said, I know,

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Speaker 1: evely as a cop thought, Okay, the rock spiders in prison,

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Speaker 1: the prisoners will bash them if they can because they

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Speaker 1: don't like the nature of the crime. And it was

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Speaker 1: pointed out, you know why the prisoners hate them is

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Speaker 1: because so many of us are in here because we

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Speaker 1: were abused as kids. That's why we hate them with

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Speaker 1: a passion. There was an age, a couple of years

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Speaker 1: down the track, when you thought enough is enough, and

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Speaker 1: you sought help, and you went and spoke to a teacher.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was twelve years of age, living in

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Speaker 2: government and I was very sporty, athletic type of kid.

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Speaker 2: Didn't matter what it was. I wasn't good at. I

353
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 2: was excellent at. I was gifted in sport. And I

354
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 2: won a scholarship, five year, fully funded scholarship to the

355
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Speaker 2: Southport School. My first week at the school, I was

356
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Speaker 2: harassed by certain teachers for being a They called me basically,

357
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Speaker 2: I had no money. I come from government housing. I

358
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 2: wasn't worthy of being taught. I wasn't being paid. I

359
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 2: didn't pay to go to the school. I was a literate.

360
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Speaker 2: I had dyslexia, and you know, one teacher said, look,

361
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Speaker 2: I don't teach idiots. Go sit in the corner and

362
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Speaker 2: play with your thumbs. And that was my introduction to

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Speaker 2: the Southport School.

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Speaker 3: What a great teacher.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was yeah, class act that one. The other

366
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Speaker 2: teacher consoled me because that teacher was so harmful to me,

367
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Speaker 2: but consoled me in a way of abusing me. It

368
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,919
Speaker 2: was a nightmare. It was happening at school, and then

369
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Speaker 2: I'd go home and it had happened at home. Then

370
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Speaker 2: I'd wake up in the morning and I'd go to

371
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Speaker 2: school and it happened at school. Then I'd come home

372
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Speaker 2: at night and it happened at home. And it was

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Speaker 2: just relentless. And it got to a point where I

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Speaker 2: can turn around now and say I had a breakdown

375
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Speaker 2: in a way that was so severe that I just

376
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 2: ran away from school and home and I went to

377
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Speaker 2: Surface Paradise and I sat in that little cubby house

378
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Speaker 2: that I'd built years earlier, and I stayed there for days, weeks,

379
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Speaker 2: and then I just became a street kid.

380
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Speaker 3: Bill.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting here and just listening to you tell the story.

382
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Speaker 1: It's difficult to even comprehend how you process what you've

383
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: just described on every front as a kid, where you

384
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,159
Speaker 1: should be protected if you're not at home, or at

385
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: least the school's going to protect you, or there needs

386
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: to be and balance you. You literally had no one

387
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: helping you. The school that you put trust in teachers

388
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Speaker 1: and they're doing doing the same thing.

389
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Speaker 3: What did that do to you?

390
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Speaker 1: They try to describe to me and the listeners what

391
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Speaker 1: that did to a kid at that age, Like being

392
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 1: a teenager is hard enough with everything going your way,

393
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: but having all those things, what was your view on

394
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Speaker 1: the world.

395
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Speaker 2: There was a song that I regularly hear on the

396
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: radio and in cars passing by, and it was Bob Geldoff.

397
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Speaker 2: I don't like Mondays, and it resonated with me. And

398
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Speaker 2: even today when I hear that song, yeah, it's a

399
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 2: trigger for me. And you know, you shoot the whole

400
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: school down, or the whole day down, and you know,

401
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: and I always had that yea, the silicon chip inside

402
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 2: her head has switched to over load all mine. Mine

403
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 2: went more than overlaid, you know. And it was an

404
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 2: absolute shocking thought. And I ended up breaking into a

405
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: schoolboy's family home that I knew quite well. In the eighties,

406
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 2: the early eighties, even the made of mine had a

407
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 2: rifle rack in his car as long as they weren't loaded.

408
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: You know, you could drive around with rifles in the

409
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 2: early eighties. And I stole a rifle and okay, now

410
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 2: I look back and it was only a twenty two,

411
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 2: but for me, it was a rifle. It was something

412
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 2: that was going to kill the perpetrators and people that

413
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 2: hurt me. And that was my whole thought in my

414
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 2: process was to steal that rifle, steal enough ammunition, and

415
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: head back to the school. And yeah, I did.

416
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 3: Did you physically go there with the intent to use

417
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 3: the weapon?

418
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 2: Fully intended to do what I was going to do?

419
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't. It's funny when when people are in that

420
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 2: type of zone, there's no you don't see anything else.

421
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: Like I remember breaking into the house and I couldn't

422
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: tell you how I got in Today, I got no

423
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: idea how I got in there. But I can tell

424
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: you where the gun rack was. I can tell you

425
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: the ammunition I took. I can tell you that it

426
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 2: was a goldplay to rifle. I can tell you I

427
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 2: got from the house to the school by a stolen

428
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 2: boat because it was just across the river. But then

429
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: everything else is a blur around me. I can remember

430
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: getting to the clock tower and climbing the clock tower

431
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: because I knew, I knew everything about TSS. There's not

432
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 2: an inch of TSS that I didn't know about. And

433
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: I'd get into the clock tower and I was up

434
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 2: on the clock tower and it's like a miniature big

435
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: Ben and I was in there, and the noise of

436
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: the clock tower I never forget, you know, every every

437
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: quarter the chimes go. But it wasn't that that got me.

438
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: It was the flagpole that the little ring that just

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 2: belted the little pole every time the wind. And I'd

440
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: be sitting there and then I think, I know I'm

441
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: going to jail. I'm going to die that day. I

442
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 2: knew it without a doubt. I knew what was going

443
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: to happen. And I loaded this rifle and it was

444
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: a it was the old Western rifle. And I loaded it,

445
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 2: and I was sitting there and I I put it

446
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 2: under my chin and I just sat there and I cried,

447
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: and I cried and I cried. Yeah, and then I

448
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 2: stood up and I looked around, and also I could

449
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 2: see with kids, and I could see kids playing tennis

450
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: because the tennis court was right opposite the clockdown, and

451
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 2: I could see them playing tennis. And I could see kids,

452
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 2: and I couldn't tell you what kids they were. Although

453
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: I knew everybody at the school and they knew me,

454
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: I couldn't picture each or any of them. It was

455
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: a blurb. But I couldn't see any teachers. I couldn't

456
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 2: see any adults. And that's what I was there for,

457
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: the teachers and the adults. And then i'd sit back

458
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: down and I'd wait a little while, and I thought,

459
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: I can't do this. I just can't do it. And

460
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: I waited for the bell to go and everybody run

461
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 2: into into the classes or whatever else. And I started

462
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: to head down the clockdown. I could hear a familiar voice,

463
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: and he was talking to these people, you know, showing

464
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: him around the school. Must have been new parents, you know,

465
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: of the kids that were attending the school. And I

466
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: waited for his voice to slowly go in the distance,

467
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 2: and I quickly looked around and I went through one

468
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: of the dormitory houses and I escaped through the kitchen,

469
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: the dorm kitchen where all the boys would go and

470
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner, all the boarders. And I

471
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: made my way back down to the river, and I

472
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: grabbed the rifle by the nozzle and I just flung

473
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: it straight into the broad worder. I just looked and

474
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: I went. I just walked away, and I ran into

475
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: a shopping center then was called Sundale Shopping Center. It

476
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: was really well known on the Gold Case and I

477
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: went in there, and I walked into the movie theater

478
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: and I hid under the row of seats and I

479
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: just lay there and cried, and.

480
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

481
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: I stayed there for a couple of nights in this

482
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 2: movie theater.

483
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: You know.

484
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 2: And I was dry and I was warm, and I

485
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: consoled myself. And then the next day, a couple of

486
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: days after that, I stole a school uniform and I

487
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: went to a state school called Southport State High School.

488
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 2: And I walked into this state school and I saw

489
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: these group of kids and I said, Oh, what grade

490
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: you guys in. They said, oh, we're in grade eleven.

491
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: I said, oh, yeah, me too. Where's first class? And

492
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 2: they said, just up there and I will take you.

493
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: And I so beautiful. So I went upstairs and introduced

494
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: myself to the teacher, and teacher says, I didn't know

495
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: I had a new student. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool,

496
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 2: take a seat over there. And I walked in. I

497
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: sat down, and the girl behind me tap me on

498
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: the shoulder with a pencil and said, stop leaning on

499
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: your chair, and I said, oh, sorry, And then she

500
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: looked at her friend and she said to her friend,

501
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: she says, I'm going to marry that boy one day

502
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: and it's been forty years today.

503
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: That's Lara, was it?

504
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow?

505
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: Wow, Because I was going to bring up the relationship

506
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: you have with Lara, because it seems like it's the

507
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: foundation of your whole life moving throughout your life after that.

508
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 3: Start getting back to what you just talked about. It's

509
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: very rare.

510
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,479
Speaker 1: I sit here and shut up and just listen to

511
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: someone talk like you did. But I can't even process

512
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: what you're going through at that stage, the abuse that

513
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: you suffered, getting to the point where Okay, I'm going

514
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: to take revenge, actually taking actions to do that, put

515
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: yourself in a position where you could do that, and

516
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: then whatever came over you deciding that's not what I'm

517
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: going to do and walking away from it. But it's

518
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: just we hear a lot of stuff on eye catch killers,

519
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: but it's just mind blowing what you went through at

520
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: such an early age. You mentioned the other day, I

521
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 1: don't like Mondays and how triggering it is, and if

522
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: people that don't know the song, Bob Geldof a song

523
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: and it's about a girl that just don't like Mondays

524
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: and ended up going to a school and doing what

525
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: you were thinking of doing exactly.

526
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: It was so profound, you know, Like many years later,

527
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: I meant, the son of one of my abuses who

528
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: reached out to me, and he said to me, he said,

529
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: my father was TSS teacher for forty four years and

530
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 2: he's confessed to abusing hundreds of boys, hundreds, and he's

531
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: on his deathbed. And I said, oh, you're kidding me.

532
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: He says, he also abused me at home. He said,

533
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: But and I told him this story about the rifle

534
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: of cocktail and that. And he said, I don't know

535
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: if you know, but three years prior to what you

536
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: just said, a young boy stood in front of the

537
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: colcktown and blew his head off. I said, no, I

538
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: didn't know that. He said, that's because of the abuse

539
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: he suffered. I was like, I wasn't the only one.

540
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: No, Sadly, sadly it's not always. But there's not just one.

541
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: There's more. Were those the abuses your grandfather, the teachers?

542
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: Were they ever called into account?

543
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: On the seventh September last year went to mediation with

544
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: the church and the South Pot School. And it took

545
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: thirty five years to get there. Eleven lawyers, probably four

546
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: different lawyer agencies, and when they finally got to the table,

547
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: the church said, yeah, this happened. I was like, you

548
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: stood there for thirty years calling me a liar. Now

549
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 2: you're willing to accept what happened to me, and now

550
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm being forced to accept a payout. And they said, well, yeah,

551
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: that's why we're here. I'm like, I'm here for justice.

552
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: What about those that abuse me? What about them? If

553
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: you accept the payout, they can continue their lives, they

554
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: can keep teaching, they can do what they want. But

555
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: why don't you stand with me? Why isn't the school

556
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: standing with me? Why isn't this church standing with me?

557
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: And enough is enough? How dare this continue? How dare

558
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: we employ these people in good faith that have turned

559
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: out to be absolute animals? Why didn't the church stand

560
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: with me?

561
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: You know? Just?

562
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: And the reason being is that the school, the church,

563
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: they're so scared of being outed in a way. And

564
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: it's got to the point where I've spoken to one

565
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty three old boys. Ninety eight percent were

566
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: abused sexually, physically, and mentally. A lot of them have

567
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: now been paid out and accepted a pay out because

568
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: justice is too hard to get. The system doesn't allow

569
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: us to get justice.

570
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: Well, when you've got the organization, the very organization where

571
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: these things are occurring, working against getting justice and covering

572
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: it up. But Bill, we could talk about this and

573
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: what's wrong with the world in regards to child sex

574
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: abuse all day, and it's just I think there just

575
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: needs to be some ownership taken in people that are

576
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: aware of this and know the organization, the shame of

577
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: this that any excuse, it's just not good enough. It

578
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: is not good enough that the damage that they cause

579
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: to people. And when I was talking to the other day,

580
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: I said that it's great the way you turned your

581
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: life around, and then I checked myself. You haven't turned

582
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: your life around. Your life, you didn't have an option

583
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: where your life was going. You've got through your life,

584
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: but your childhood was stolen from you, absolutely stolen from

585
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: you by these for their How do you justify it?

586
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: It's for their own sexual gratification. It's despicable and time

587
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: and time again, and I just I get angry talking

588
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: to people like yourself what you've been through and that

589
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: the whole world's not outraged by what goes on and

590
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: the way they manipulate.

591
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing, like I had an associated

592
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: I won't call him a friend because I actually met

593
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 2: him as a copper. He was a cop. Peter Jackson, right,

594
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: He was the footballer Peter Jackson, unbelievable football player. He

595
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: played for the Broncos South. He played for Australia. A

596
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 2: remarkable man. Now I'm about I don't know, eighteen. At

597
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 2: this time nineteen, I'm in and out of jail, and

598
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm at this guy's place. He's a drug dealer in

599
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: Surface Paradise. And his name is Matthew Columbian Blake, very hard,

600
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: rough man. But we got on really well because he

601
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: had a pet snake and I wasn't scared of snakes,

602
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: and he used to take it to the Chevron bar

603
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: and he had this snake on the bar and I

604
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: was just in there one day and anyway, I picked

605
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 2: the snake up and he goes, no, I never touches

606
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: my snake. It'll bite you, I'll kill you. I'm like, off,

607
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: it's a carpet snake. You won't do shit. We just clicked.

608
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: We got on. I was never into drugs or alcohol,

609
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: but I was into food. I was so hungry, always hungry.

610
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: And I told this Matthew and he had a girlfriend

611
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: onnion surface. They used to love cooking, and you'll come

612
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: down and have some of our food and oh fuck,

613
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: the food is gorgeous. Anyway, the door gets kicked in

614
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: while I'm in there eating and in comes this two coppers,

615
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: both of them football players, Peter Jackson and Matthew. Turns

616
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: to Peter and he goes, ah, uniform today, Huh how

617
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: much you want? And then all of a sudden he

618
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: goes back and they do the deal and Peter looks

619
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: at me and he goes, I know you. I said yeah.

620
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: I said I know you too, and he goes, do

621
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: I rest you? I said no, You've never arrested me.

622
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: He said where do I know you from? I said

623
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: tss And he said, I fun, get out, fuck off.

624
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: You don't want to be around here, clean yourself up.

625
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: And I'm like, fuck off, You've just come in for

626
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: a bag of drugs and you're telling me what so anyway,

627
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: and it was a couple of years later, you know,

628
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: Peter Jackson came out and confessed to his being sexually

629
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 2: abused at the Southbot School and then he took his

630
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: own life in ninety seven. And that's when I took

631
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: up the fight.

632
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 3: It says a lot, doesn't it.

633
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: Someone like Peter Jackson successful in every aspect that people

634
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: would look at that. Ak's football, he's got the career,

635
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: he's everything, and he was a personality, he was well

636
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: liked and that, but clearly just held onto that pain

637
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: from the abuse when he was a child. That's the

638
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: impact that this type of thing has what got you

639
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: to prison as a seventeen year olf an adult prisoner

640
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: As a seveneen year off.

641
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: I was in a place called Fisherman's Wharf. It had

642
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: just been just hanging out and ada and just having

643
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: a great time. And it was that era that you

644
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: could go and you could actually sign a piece of

645
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: paper saying that you wouldn't drink, but you could go

646
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: into the lickle licensing area. Yeah, so I'd do that

647
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 2: and then I'd have a couple of drinks. I hated drinking.

648
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: I was never a drinker. And I went across the

649
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: beach to throw up and fuck me it was main beach.

650
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I was very young, right, I didn't

651
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 2: know that was a notorious place for gays to hang out.

652
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: It's called the spit. So I didn't know, you know,

653
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: I had no idea. So I'm over there and I'm

654
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 2: throwing up. It's late in the afternoon, and these two

655
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: other guys come over that I knew, and they're going,

656
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: you're right, Oh yeah, I'm right there. I said, what's

657
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: going on? I said, ah, man, and then as I

658
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: looked up, there's a naked man standing there, fully naked,

659
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 2: just standing there, and I'm like, fuck man. Anyway, one

660
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: of the boys goes up to you and says you've

661
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: got a cigarette, and he goes, yeah, but you're not

662
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: having one. So I just grabbed his packet of cigarettes

663
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: and I went to walk off. I didn't touch the guy,

664
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 2: no one harmed him. We just abused him, and really

665
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: he ran away. He was scared shitless, but he ran

666
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: to the police. So we're walking. I'm walking with these

667
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: other two guys and we're walking across Sundale Bridge, fucking

668
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: all these play these cars just come to a screech

669
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 2: and they arrest us. And there's a detective who I'll

670
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: never forget. He's just that fucking ass on the gold case.

671
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: He really was. I met him later on in life

672
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 2: and told him so. But all these police cars and

673
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: they put us on the ground. The handcuffers put us

674
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: in the paddy wagon, take us to the Southwort Watchhouse

675
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: and they separate those two with me. I'm in my

676
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 2: own song. They're in another cell, and then I see

677
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: this guy come in and he's really well dressed and

678
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: he's talking to the bloke beside myself and he goes.

679
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: He says, yeah, so I can help you out, and

680
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: I'll be able to help you out in the morning,

681
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: and you'll go home tomorrow about lunchtime and I'll ti

682
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: click straight away. He's a lawyer, right, and he's only

683
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: a new lawyer, right, but he's very well mannered, well dressed,

684
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: and he looks at me and he goes, are you

685
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: all right? And I said, I'm not. I said, I

686
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: don't know what I've been charged with. I'm here, but

687
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,479
Speaker 2: I don't understand the charges. And he goes, my name's

688
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 2: Bill Potts. I'll help you, and I said, I haven't

689
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: got any money. He said, don't worry about that. So

690
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: he went to the front counter. I spoke with these

691
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: police and the police said the charge is robbery with violence,

692
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: and he goes, what was the robbery and he said

693
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: a cigarette. He said, but that wasn't the problem. The

694
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: problem with this young bloke is that he was with

695
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: these two blokes and they wanted farm, robbery, bank jobs.

696
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so you've done a basically what was a

697
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: stealing has turned into a robbery and company and everything else.

698
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 2: And it ended up being really bad. They said, I

699
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: was looking at eight to twelve years because I was

700
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: with these two people, and I was advised not to

701
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: attend court after I got bail. I got bail on

702
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: my own undertaking, but I was advised not to attend

703
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: court with these two and to suffer the not attending

704
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: court consequences rather than standing in a dock with these two.

705
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 3: Right, because you'll get one then with them.

706
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: And I did. And then when I didn't attend court,

707
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: and when I finally went back to court that Jude said, okay, look,

708
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: it's a misdemeanor. It's not a big crime. Where do

709
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 2: you live? You know this? And I told him I

710
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: had nothing. He says, oh, this is a six months

711
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: by array. They'll look after you. You'll get you'll get fed,

712
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: you'll get closed, and you'll get educated.

713
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: Fucked Bill, Like, sorry, I should choose a better word,

714
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, you've been dealt some shitty cards, haven't you? Like,

715
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: now you're now getting punished for being sexually abused and

716
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: your life turned upside down because your life's in disarray.

717
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: And then you go before the courts, maybe they'll understand,

718
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: Maybe they might even ask why I'm here? Why have

719
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: I got no fixed place of a bode? But now

720
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: we'll send you, send you to an adult prison as

721
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old. That's yeah, that goes well, doesn't it?

722
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: Well? It was just horrendous, absolutely horrendous.

723
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: Tell us about that, like, I can't even comprehend. And

724
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: I've said it on here jokingly. Walking into a new

725
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: school can be intimidating as a kid, But walking into

726
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: an adult prison as a seventeen year old, what was

727
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 1: going through your mind?

728
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: I was in the paddy wagon on the way up

729
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: and this guy beside me. He's he was a notorious

730
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: arm robber, hard as hard man, very hard, and he

731
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: looks over at me and he says, give me your shoes.

732
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 2: I said, no, away, he says, give me your shoes.

733
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: He says, you will not last three minutes inside without

734
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: your shoes. I said what he says, Look, he says,

735
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: you take my shoes. He says. I know they're shitty shoes,

736
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 2: he said, but you're wearing Nikes. And I'd stolen these nikes,

737
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: so I had no real, fuck it yeah thing for them.

738
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: But I thought, I'm not going to give Michelle. I'm

739
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: a tough guy. I'm not giving. And then he told

740
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: me what was going to happen to me as soon

741
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: as we got out of the wagon for my shoes.

742
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: And I'm like, they're going to do that for my shoes.

743
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: What are they going to do? You know? So I

744
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 2: got to know this guy really well, just on a

745
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: drive up to the Brisbane watching Brisbane Boggerade, and I did.

746
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: I gave him my shoes and he got out of

747
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 2: the wagon and then I got out of the wagon,

748
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: and then another guy, Aboriginal Blake, got out of the

749
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: wagon and we had to stand on a yellow line

750
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: and back then you had to salute. It's a real

751
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: weird situation, but you had to salute all.

752
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 3: The offices stead of a throwback, isn't it.

753
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: And this average I said, no, I'm not saluting you,

754
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 2: you fucker. No way. He got the shit beat out

755
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: of him, and I was going to help, and the

756
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 2: black took my shoes. He said, stand there and don't move,

757
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: Just stand there. I shipped myself. Old mate, he was bad.

758
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: I just what you've described there and that you're trusting

759
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: this blake. Is he giving you genuine good advice or

760
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: is he he just setting you up for whatever?

761
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 3: But it's a world that you don't know, like.

762
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: It's not like you grew up in that environment where

763
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: you're in and out of boys homes and knew the

764
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: lay of the land. You've gone straight in there, pretty

765
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: pretty raw. Even though you're a street kid. You're tough,

766
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: you can look after yourself. But it's on another level

767
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: there isn't it when you're in there too. You your

768
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: pet hate was the predators, the sex offenders, and the

769
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: ones that wanted to take advantage of you in prison.

770
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: Tell us a few stories about that. One and one

771
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: in particular, and the Taurus guy Ray Garland was.

772
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: They put a seventeen year old into an area that

773
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: was called protection. I didn't know that. I had no

774
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: idea what protection was because you're young. You know you're

775
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 2: going into this yard. This guy came up to me, Teddy,

776
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: he was walking the boundary line and he goes, hey,

777
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: you come here. I said, what's wrong? And he says,

778
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: see that guy out there, He says, I want you

779
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 2: to bash him. You don't bash him, you'll be raped.

780
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: What the fuck? He's a copper, he's what he's a

781
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 2: copper bashing and you're the only one that can get

782
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: in there and do it, So go and do it.

783
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: I'll be watching. I'm like, So I walk up to

784
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: this guy and I just laid into it and I

785
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: couldn't stop. And then I was given a couple more months.

786
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: I was thrown in solitary. I came out of solitary.

787
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: They said, no, we're not putting him back in there.

788
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 2: Fuck that put him in with all the other boys,

789
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: which they did. And then I'm sitting there and this

790
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: Aboriginal kid come in. Oh, he's walking the fence line,

791
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: this other Aboriginal kid, and he had a look that

792
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 2: is the most feared look you could ever see in

793
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: a man. And he looked at me and then he

794
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 2: walked past, and then I saw him. The following day,

795
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: he dragged one of the boy's younger boys, say eighteen

796
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: nineteen year old into the toilets and raped him bashed him.

797
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 2: Two hours later, same thing to another bloke, and then

798
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 2: another bloke, and it was just it kept going and

799
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: I could see this and everybody could see it, and

800
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 2: then you could witness it. And then I could see

801
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: the guards laughing with him, giving him a high five.

802
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: That guy of these fucking real bad He thinks he's

803
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: a tough blake, going and getting ray. They let him

804
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: in there, and he did it prolifically all over the

805
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: fucking jail. All of a sudden, this one day, he's

806
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 2: walking past my yard and he goes, hey, you come here.

807
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: I said, fuck you, you come here. So he started

808
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: climbing the fucking cage and I thought, he's coming in

809
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be prepared, fucking And there was

810
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: a prisoner in there at the time. He was on

811
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: remand this prisoner he was his gangster type blacker. He

812
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 2: knew gangsters more than him being a gangster. And he

813
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: said to me. He says, oh, you're fucked, and I said, no,

814
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm not, man He's fucked. Anyway, Glan gets back down

815
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: because the screw is telling him to get down. He

816
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 2: gets down and he looks at me and he says,

817
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: you're mine. I said no, no, no, I'm not mane anyway,

818
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: he starts fucking going off and I'm going off at him,

819
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: and then I look at him and we have this

820
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: stair down and he starts to walk away, and then

821
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 2: something in my mind just said, hey, Garland, come here,

822
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: and he did. And I remember when I was going

823
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 2: into Boggarad and the guy who took my shoes, he said,

824
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: if you're if you do what you're told, you're easy.

825
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: And I said, the Garland come here. I had him.

826
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: I knew I had him. I knew that wall that

827
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: looked that he had it was all fucking fake. I said,

828
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: we come to to toe. You're a dead man. I said,

829
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: I'm coming after you. And then he looked at me

830
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh, mate, you got the devil in you.

831
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: I don't like you. I don't want you. Fuck off.

832
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: I said, you're lucky that this gate's here right now,

833
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: I mean, and he just walked off and I never

834
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 2: spoke to him again.

835
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: Hopefully stays there.

836
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, you've just given a real honest account of

837
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: what it's like going in the prison and just whind

838
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: in the backyard where it's put on you the decisions

839
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: you got to make. Do I swap the shoes of

840
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: my being set up here and then bash that blake. Yeah,

841
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: I I defy anyone to how would you react in

842
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: that situation? If you ignore it that it's coming for you,

843
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,479
Speaker 1: you know you're going to be a victim. And I think,

844
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,479
Speaker 1: if anything, the abuse that you suffered as a child

845
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: and the anger that you're held on to that probably

846
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: carried you through there. That the way you just describe

847
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: that conversation with Garland, you don't want to fuck with

848
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: someone that's prepared to die on the spot, And that

849
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: seems to be the way that you were putting yourself

850
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: across in prison, and it might.

851
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: Have look the first meal in prison is the most daunting, horrific,

852
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: terrifying experience because you're going into a dining hall with

853
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: all these big fucking men and they're all sitting at tables,

854
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: round tables, and I'm sitting there with a tray and

855
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: I've got my food on the tray, and the knives

856
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: and forks are rattling so much because I'm shaking so much,

857
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: and I'm so scared, And I see an opening and

858
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: I put my tray on the table and I sit

859
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: down and they throw the tray away and they tell

860
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 2: me to fuck off, and I'm sitting there going I'm

861
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: not going. I'm staying. I don't give a fuck what

862
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: because I'm not leaving this seat. And they bashed me

863
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: so bad that then they turn around and they say, yeah,

864
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 2: he's not a bad blake, all right, Yeah he's all right.

865
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck. So then I got sort of taken

866
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 2: under a few wingsuit is good. And then I remember

867
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: the next morning, I got a bowl of porridge and

868
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 2: I had it in my hands because there was.

869
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: No trace that say he didn't mind it radilely.

870
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: No, My incident caused the whole prison to get rid

871
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: of trays for a day, right, so I was outed

872
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: because the fucking trays. Anyway, I'm holding this hot porridge

873
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: and this blake behind me, he's got tear drop tattoos

874
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: down his face. He's fucking just ripped and fucking hard ass,

875
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 2: and he just walks up and slaps the porridge out

876
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: of my hand, and I just look at him, and

877
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: I know I'm meant for fucking hiding again, and hes

878
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: that wasn't meant for you. And I said what he said,

879
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: that food was not meant for you. It's got all

880
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: the glass shavings in it. It's meant for the blake

881
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: behind you. Ah okay, thanks, he says, don't hurt me,

882
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: just fucking know when to speak. That's what he taught me,

883
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: he said, No, when to speak.

884
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: Hard hardcore. You've described that scene walking into the mill hall,

885
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: and it's played out. You see it played out in

886
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: movies time and time again, because it's just can you

887
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: think of somewhere more uncomfortable to be? And you and

888
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: the way you described that, I like your honesty. You're

889
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: trying to Yeah, I got this covered. But the trays

890
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: rattling on the cutlery, on the metal tray.

891
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 3: But yeah, you're right.

892
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: Like if you and I hear this from people who

893
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: have been inside and go inside when they don't understand it.

894
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: But if you had to take that stand, you had

895
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: to take that bashing, then otherwise your life.

896
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 3: You would have been a victim your whole whole time

897
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 3: you served in.

898
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: There without a doubt. I mean I met some people

899
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: that came in that was as hard as nails and

900
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: they just went to water. There was a Broncos football

901
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 2: player that can at the same time. Sam was his name, Sam?

902
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: I can't remember. He came in in nineteen eighty seven,

903
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: he got done for drugs, him and his wife, and

904
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: his wife went to the woman's john. He came in

905
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: and he was a legend football player, you know, and

906
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,919
Speaker 2: he'd run around the oval and no one had ever

907
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: seen with anybody else, but he just run around the oval.

908
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 2: And I got to talk to him, and I realized

909
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: straight out why he was doing what he was doing.

910
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: It was fear, nothing more. It was just fear. Going

911
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: around the oval not talking to anyone. Made him look

912
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: like a real hard bastard. He was scared. He was

913
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: like all the rest of us in there. We all

914
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,959
Speaker 2: had to find our own little niche to get over things,

915
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 2: you know, and that's mine be I became a runner

916
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: for other prisoners. The screws allowed me to become a

917
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: runner deliver the messages, but I was delivered on drugs.

918
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: That's It's the world. I'm not the I think. And

919
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking the eighties here are we.

920
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 2: Seventeen eighteenth birthday, nineteenth twenty first birthday I got out.

921
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 3: Prisons. It will never be perfect.

922
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: They are starting to wake up to the fact that,

923
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: you know, if you treat people like animals in there,

924
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: or throw someone in that environment, it's not going to

925
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: be conducive to coming out and you know, getting getting

926
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: back into society and like speaking to young blokes in

927
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: there or even blakes that have been in there for

928
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: a while that you've got to bridge up anytime someone

929
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: has a go at you. And then you get out

930
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: of prison, you're walking along the street, someone bumps you

931
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: and you're still in your prison headspace and you belt

932
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: them and you're back in prison. You know, it's just

933
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: a crazy thing. We've got so much to cover here.

934
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: We're going to have a break now, but just your

935
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: life in itself is so fascinating. When we get back,

936
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: we're going to get you, get you out of the

937
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: prison and how your life starts going down a different,

938
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: different path and all the stories that you've got that

939
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: come from the coffin confessor. So we'll take a break

940
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: here and be back for part two a little later on.

941
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:02,919
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it is never Mind at Anti Nae