1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,280 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Suan Alma. 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,720 Sean Aylmer: There was carnage on the ax yesterday. Is global financial 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,440 Sean Aylmer: markets reeled from last week's tariff announcement by US President 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Sean Aylmer: Donald Trump? How much further will the market fall? Maybe 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,279 Sean Aylmer: it'll bounce. Where are the safe havens? Where are the 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,599 Sean Aylmer: opportunities for investors? Remember this is general information only and 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,840 Sean Aylmer: you should seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Ben 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,560 Sean Aylmer: Gilbert is head of Australian Research at Jardin, leading their 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,960 Sean Aylmer: research team and consumer sector coverage. Ben, Welcome back to 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:35,560 Sean Aylmer: Fearing Greed. 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,920 Ben Gilbert: Thanks Sean, thanks for having me. Interesting times. 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,840 Sean Aylmer: Interesting times. I mean that's first few minutes yesterday morning. 13 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,199 Sean Aylmer: Monday morning, it was down six percent. It ended kind 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,800 Sean Aylmer: of closer to four percent down or something. But really 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,120 Sean Aylmer: has been a pretty horrendous couple of sessions. 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,920 Ben Gilbert: It has. Look I think, ultimately, uncertainty is never anyone's friend. 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,320 Ben Gilbert: And look at the moment. Anyone who sort of says 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,120 Ben Gilbert: I know where it's going tomorrow or next week or 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,440 Ben Gilbert: next month, I think ultimately doesn't know. I think what 20 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Ben Gilbert: we've got to do is get the information as to 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,959 Ben Gilbert: come to us at the moment, and so to take 22 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,520 Ben Gilbert: a bit of a longer term lens and sort of 23 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,760 Ben Gilbert: hopefully as we look forward, we'll get some increased confidence 24 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,800 Ben Gilbert: in terms of where we're going. And ultimately I think 25 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,120 Ben Gilbert: that's what we need, some confidence and increased certainty. What 26 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,560 Ben Gilbert: I would say though, is typically if we look back 27 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,679 Ben Gilbert: over the last fifteen, twenty thirty years, is that you 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,479 Ben Gilbert: have these multiple down periods or down days and often 29 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,839 Ben Gilbert: present some pretty material opportunities as we look forward. 30 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,319 Sean Aylmer: Okay, I just want to focus on the uncertainty factor. 31 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,720 Sean Aylmer: It seems that that's what rattles markets more than anything. 32 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,840 Sean Aylmer: Even bad policy, markets work their way around that. It's 33 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,840 Sean Aylmer: just when you don't know what the policy is. And 34 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,600 Sean Aylmer: a great example was Nike last year. Weeks sold off 35 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,279 Sean Aylmer: enormously and then Donald Trump spoke to the leader of Vietnam, 36 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,280 Sean Aylmer: where Nike manufacturers a lot of their shoes. Nike rebounds. 37 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,400 Sean Aylmer: It's kind of that uncertainty, isn't it. That's the enemy. 38 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,240 Ben Gilbert: It is, And I think no one wants to lose money. 39 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,560 Ben Gilbert: And I think if you've got risk, you've got to wiegh 40 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,400 Ben Gilbert: up risk reward. And you used a Nike example obviously, 41 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,880 Ben Gilbert: as you said, produce an anormous amount of product in Vietnam. You 42 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,520 Ben Gilbert: get a bit more confidence around it and you can 43 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,000 Ben Gilbert: start thinking, okay, well this is a risk reward profile. 44 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,640 Ben Gilbert: This is how we think about it could mean they 45 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,720 Ben Gilbert: need to put prices up X versus Y, and that's 46 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,639 Ben Gilbert: I think where we need to look to. And look, 47 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,360 Ben Gilbert: there's more news coming out you see, like yesterday afternoon. 48 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,799 Ben Gilbert: Also you saw China sort have talked about potentially bringing 49 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,639 Ben Gilbert: forward some of the stimulus measures that they talked to. Well, 50 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,079 Ben Gilbert: that could actually be quite positive. China's obviously a big 51 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,360 Ben Gilbert: training partner of Australia. You saw the currency bounce. So 52 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,040 Ben Gilbert: as people start to get some confidence or some understanding 53 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,639 Ben Gilbert: where we're heading, hopefully that should provide some reprieve and 54 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,080 Ben Gilbert: a baseline for markets. But that said, look, I think 55 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,480 Ben Gilbert: until we get some clarity around this, and it's obviously 56 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,720 Ben Gilbert: it's global in terms of the implications around trade, it's 57 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,400 Ben Gilbert: going to probably take some while to play out. 58 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:47,720 Sean Aylmer: Before we talk about opportunities. You, as a consumer sector man, 59 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,440 Sean Aylmer: must be very habit. When we've spoken to you about 60 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,640 Sean Aylmer: some of the consumer staple stocks and in this times 61 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,160 Sean Aylmer: of carnage, they've done pretty well. 62 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Ben Gilbert: Yeah, look they have in recent days and look, ultimately 63 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,239 Ben Gilbert: the staples should be better positioned. But that's it. I 64 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,760 Ben Gilbert: don't I don't think we should discount that potentially as 65 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,840 Ben Gilbert: could just be broadly positive for the Australian consumer. And 66 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,480 Ben Gilbert: I don't know if it's going to necessarily be as 67 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,800 Ben Gilbert: negative more broadly for Australia as the markets might be 68 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,040 Ben Gilbert: implying at the moment. And the reason I say that 69 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,760 Ben Gilbert: is is that, yes, we're a reasonable trading partner with 70 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Ben Gilbert: the US, but if you look at exports out of 71 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,120 Ben Gilbert: beef and steel and a few other things, it's not 72 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,680 Ben Gilbert: overly material. What we want to see is strengthen opportunities 73 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,800 Ben Gilbert: out of some of the bigger trading partners, people like China. 74 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,120 Ben Gilbert: And if you look at what's happening with China at 75 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,320 Ben Gilbert: the moment, look obviously a big trading partner with the US, 76 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,680 Ben Gilbert: but at the same time, if you get more capacity 77 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,840 Ben Gilbert: in that market, because that the mean we can purchase 78 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,400 Ben Gilbert: products into Australia little bit more cheaply, obviously source a 79 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,320 Ben Gilbert: lot out it there. Similarly, if there's significant stimulus in 80 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,080 Ben Gilbert: China or pull forward and it tries to stimulate things 81 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,640 Ben Gilbert: like housing, et cetera. Is that going to be more 82 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,840 Ben Gilbert: positive for our own by and or exports, which is 83 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,400 Ben Gilbert: obviously good for our national accounts. Similar it's good for 84 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,240 Ben Gilbert: the currency from an fix standpoint, that might see inflation 85 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,960 Ben Gilbert: come back if earlier you look at rates at the 86 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,120 Ben Gilbert: moment the market's now pricing in I think at seventy 87 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,160 Ben Gilbert: percent chance for a couple of rate cuts by May 88 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,280 Ben Gilbert: and multiple breakouts by the end of the year. Is 89 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,800 Ben Gilbert: that good for housing, good for disposable income. So it's 90 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,800 Ben Gilbert: not all bad. But I think as you say, it's 91 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,280 Ben Gilbert: ultimately it's uncertainty at the moment. 92 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,000 Sean Aylmer: What about the market itself? Do you expect it to 93 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,720 Sean Aylmer: fall much further? Is that too much crystal ball gazing? 94 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,279 Ben Gilbert: Well, I think it's a lot of crystal ball gazing. 95 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,760 Ben Gilbert: I think one thing we can probably say with some 96 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,560 Ben Gilbert: level of certainty it should be higher again in the 97 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,120 Ben Gilbert: foreseeable future, because these big corrections typically get met with 98 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,600 Ben Gilbert: some pretty significant upturns. You look at it. I remember, 99 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,960 Ben Gilbert: look we look back at COVID. You move through that 100 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,360 Ben Gilbert: and there was some pretty material down days. But as 101 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,799 Ben Gilbert: we started to get some understanding what was actually happening 102 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,480 Ben Gilbert: in the government stepped in provided some stimulus that the 103 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,640 Ben Gilbert: market's rallied. Similarly with the GFC. When you start moving 104 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,800 Ben Gilbert: through and you get ideas around where the government is 105 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,040 Ben Gilbert: going to step in give the market more confidence, stocks 106 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,920 Ben Gilbert: can rally pretty hard. The good thing we've gotten today 107 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,760 Ben Gilbert: is that we don't necessarily have a lot of balance 108 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,280 Ben Gilbert: sheet across Australian companies, so typically in good, good positions. 109 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,880 Ben Gilbert: And maybe we do get some rate reprieve, which is 110 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,520 Ben Gilbert: obviously looking more likely, it's going to be positive for 111 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,880 Ben Gilbert: willingness to come through and spend money. We've also had 112 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,400 Ben Gilbert: a couple of corporate actions or corporate activity happening as well, 113 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,510 Ben Gilbert: so not all share prices are down, albeit the vast 114 00:05:10,510 --> 00:05:10,520 Ben Gilbert: majority are. 115 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:12,800 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Ben, we'll be back in a minute. 116 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,760 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Ben Gilbert. Head of Australian Research at Jarden. Okay, 117 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,320 Sean Aylmer: let's talk a little bit stock specific. So if we 118 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,280 Sean Aylmer: go into the consumer sector and some of the retailers, 119 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,080 Sean Aylmer: where do you see some opportunities given what's happened and 120 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,800 Sean Aylmer: with the big big caveat that, you know we're in 121 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,520 Sean Aylmer: very volatile times here, so stick to your investment strategy. 122 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,040 Sean Aylmer: Think long and hard about what you're doing. And, Fear and 123 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,000 Sean Aylmer: Greed, we are not a financial planning podcast, so you know, 124 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,880 Sean Aylmer: make sure you go and get some advice. But Ben, 125 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,880 Sean Aylmer: from your point of view, where are the opportunities? 126 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,640 Ben Gilbert: Look, I think in this situation, this scenario, we like 127 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,679 Ben Gilbert: companies that have built sort of genuine longer term moats. 128 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,920 Ben Gilbert: The category killers have opportunities to win share, opportunities to 129 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,520 Ben Gilbert: grow share of wallet, and ultimately opportunities to outperform other 130 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,760 Ben Gilbert: market with respect to their earnings. Companies that you can 131 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,640 Ben Gilbert: sort of put in those sorts of boats is you'd 132 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,120 Ben Gilbert: sort of argue Woolworths with its data capability. You look 133 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,840 Ben Gilbert: at some of the other companies out there, sort of 134 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,200 Ben Gilbert: companies like Jbhi Fi, which is obviously proven to be 135 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Ben Gilbert: a great category killer. You look at companies like Wesfarmers 136 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,200 Ben Gilbert: in terms of what they're doing. I think those that 137 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,480 Ben Gilbert: have really got strong longer term history of winning a 138 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,040 Ben Gilbert: growing share of once should probably sort of be sort 139 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:32,960 Ben Gilbert: of looking to sort of chip away out in these 140 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,640 Ben Gilbert: sorts of scenarios. Then you can look at some of 141 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,800 Ben Gilbert: the other ones, and maybe some more emerging ones that 142 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,080 Ben Gilbert: are coming through that are really trying to push points 143 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,840 Ben Gilbert: of differentiation. The areas where the market's probably exercising a 144 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,440 Ben Gilbert: bit more caution of those that do have exposure into 145 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,880 Ben Gilbert: key markets like the United States, because that's obviously a 146 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,320 Ben Gilbert: market at the moment where you can see inflationary pressures. 147 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,720 Ben Gilbert: A lot of talk around things like stagflation and what 148 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,920 Ben Gilbert: sort of impact that's ultimately going to have on to mind, 149 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,160 Ben Gilbert: and names that have sort of been moved around a 150 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,440 Ben Gilbert: little bit, things like Visas, things like Breville, and names 151 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,560 Ben Gilbert: that people probably getting a little bit more cautious, I'm 152 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,440 Ben Gilbert: particularly given that they're coming into this sort of scenario 153 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,760 Ben Gilbert: with some relatively elevated evaluations, notwithstanding our good businesses. 154 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,360 Sean Aylmer: So Breville's a good example. It manufactures out of China, 155 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,640 Sean Aylmer: it sells into the US for about half. It's priduce 156 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,680 Sean Aylmer: selling as the USC sort of crunched on both sides there. 157 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,960 Sean Aylmer: How do you think about is Breville that sort of company? 158 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,920 Sean Aylmer: Lovisa is another one. Is it where you think long 159 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,960 Sean Aylmer: term for those stocks or are they really up against it? 160 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,280 Ben Gilbert: Yeah? Look, I think you've got to come back to 161 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,760 Ben Gilbert: what are they selling, what's the point of differentiation, and 162 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,240 Ben Gilbert: how do they resonate with consumers? And look, if we 163 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,360 Ben Gilbert: look at Breville. Breville under sort of the not really 164 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,800 Ben Gilbert: new management but under the current management team, they've done 165 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,280 Ben Gilbert: a great job really strengthening the brand, finding where they 166 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Ben Gilbert: can continue to penetrate and push sort of new products, 167 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,200 Ben Gilbert: push into new markets or new theaters as they call them, 168 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Ben Gilbert: and really driving innovation. And I do think one of 169 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,480 Ben Gilbert: the advantages of something like Breville's got look, admittedly where 170 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,640 Ben Gilbert: sort of sitting on the fence at one at the 171 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,280 Ben Gilbert: moment a little bit with a neutral but with a 172 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,440 Ben Gilbert: more positive bias, is that they've continued to innovate their 173 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,240 Ben Gilbert: position themselves at premium price points, and ultimately premium price 174 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,520 Ben Gilbert: points have lower levels of price elasticity of demand. The 175 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,160 Ben Gilbert: other thing I'd say is that the Breville management team, 176 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:16,800 Ben Gilbert: to their credit, have probably had quite a bit of 177 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,760 Ben Gilbert: foresight in terms of strategy, in the sense that they've 178 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,640 Ben Gilbert: been shifting production to other markets, notably Mexico to service 179 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,880 Ben Gilbert: the US. Now Mexico versus China has come out with 180 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,760 Ben Gilbert: some better relative tariffs, which again should put them in 181 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Ben Gilbert: a better position, notwithstanding they still source quite a significant 182 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,760 Ben Gilbert: amount out of China. So I think that they're planning 183 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,000 Ben Gilbert: and they're moving the right direction. And again if you 184 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,600 Ben Gilbert: really back to believe the product least to sell off 185 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,439 Ben Gilbert: for an opportunity. They've just gone into China in a 186 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,600 Ben Gilbert: bigger way. As we know, China is a massive conchym market. 187 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,760 Ben Gilbert: They're probably going to a bit more capacity in that 188 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,439 Ben Gilbert: market to pump into there to sell, which maybe could 189 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,880 Ben Gilbert: be a bit of a blessing in disguise it someways. 190 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,840 Sean Aylmer: Ben, you are a measured person. Every time we speak 191 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,360 Sean Aylmer: to you always come across as measured. Are you surprised 192 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,640 Sean Aylmer: by the size of the tariffs and the reaction from markets, 193 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,720 Sean Aylmer: not just equities, but bond markets as well, commodity markets. 194 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,480 Sean Aylmer: It really has turned things on its head over the 195 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:10,000 Sean Aylmer: last week. 196 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,000 Ben Gilbert: Yeah, it has, and I think the magnitude of them, yes, 197 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,760 Ben Gilbert: in particular, you look at the Chinese tariffs that over 198 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,800 Ben Gilbert: fifty percent. You sort of got this cumulative of twenty 199 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,920 Ben Gilbert: and thirty percent that's come through. It's enormous and I 200 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,839 Ben Gilbert: don't anyone's going to deny that in terms of the 201 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,920 Ben Gilbert: market reaction. Look, I think yes in some ways because 202 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,000 Ben Gilbert: it's uncertainty and I think we're obviously seeing a situation 203 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,920 Ben Gilbert: with the US it's obviously trying it as a really 204 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,360 Ben Gilbert: clear agenda that they're going to go after, and I 205 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,360 Ben Gilbert: think there's obviously people trying to understand where that ultimately ends, 206 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,440 Ben Gilbert: and at this stage we don't know. Does it then 207 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,199 Ben Gilbert: come with corresponding tax cuts on the other side that's 208 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,800 Ben Gilbert: ultimately quite stimulatary to the consumer. Well, I don't know. 209 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,360 Ben Gilbert: Potentially that could send the markets going right up the 210 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,839 Ben Gilbert: other way in terms of positives. So there's a lot 211 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,800 Ben Gilbert: of gives and takes and put and takes around this, 212 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,760 Ben Gilbert: and the short answer is yes, I have been surprised 213 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,560 Ben Gilbert: by the magnitude of some of these tariffs coming through 214 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,199 Ben Gilbert: the market reaction will Look, I think we're going to 215 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:06,600 Ben Gilbert: think of it at the moment, see where we land 216 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,520 Ben Gilbert: in a week or a month or six months. But look, 217 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,160 Ben Gilbert: I think as we've talked to a beginning of this podcast, 218 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,599 Ben Gilbert: uncertainty brings you with it volatility, which can provide with 219 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,520 Ben Gilbert: it opportunity, but you need to really have conviction in 220 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,800 Ben Gilbert: your views. And I think the importance at the moment 221 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Ben Gilbert: is to take a longer term leans because we will 222 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,719 Ben Gilbert: get there, but it's going to be a probably a 223 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,079 Ben Gilbert: bit of a rocky road for the next little while. 224 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,160 Sean Aylmer: Ben, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 225 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:29,040 Ben Gilbert: Thank you very much. 226 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Sean Aylmer: It's Ben Gilbert, head of Australian research at Jarden. This 227 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,640 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember this is 228 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,480 Sean Aylmer: general information only and you should see professional advice before 229 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,400 Sean Aylmer: making investment decisions. Join us every morning for the full 230 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,960 Sean Aylmer: episode of Fear and Greed. Daily business years for people 231 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,040 Sean Aylmer: who make their own decisions. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.