Speaker 1: Prof Grant, Welcome back to the podcast. I think this
Speaker 1: is four or five.
Speaker 2: My favorite podcast with my favorite podcast in good Night.
Speaker 3: So yeah, thanks having me better.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we are going to talk all things hormesis right now,
Speaker 4: just for the listeners.
Speaker 1: And I'm very excited about this.
Speaker 4: I emailed you a few months back and said, I've
Speaker 4: just been thinking about life in general, and I'm kind
Speaker 4: of at the fears of my life that i.
Speaker 1: Want to be doing cool shit with people.
Speaker 4: That I really like and admire. And I said to you,
Speaker 4: how about we create a lab called the hormesas Lab,
Speaker 4: because we're both big on this and you already run
Speaker 4: a lab, and you said, yes, so we are.
Speaker 1: This is the I guess the official.
Speaker 4: Announcement of the launch of the Hormesis Lab or We're
Speaker 4: going to be doing a whole heap of research on
Speaker 4: hormesis and the benefits for human health. But just for
Speaker 4: our listeners, can you give us the kind of broad
Speaker 4: overview of what hormesis is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first of all, it's an exciting announcement, Paul,
Speaker 2: you know, really driven by your energy, so thank you
Speaker 2: for doing that. I guess homesos, you know, suffering some
Speaker 2: biological stress and addiction to that is interesting, but I
Speaker 2: think there's a bigger picture of that, And so homesis
Speaker 2: makes you a more robust.
Speaker 3: Version of yourself. Whether it's.
Speaker 2: Light, or it's exercise, or it's some of the slightly
Speaker 2: toxic photochemicals polyphyin ours or.
Speaker 3: Whatever, there's a whole batch of them.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about us today. Why do you want to
Speaker 2: be robust in the first place. And the reason you
Speaker 2: want to be robust is that living a good life
Speaker 2: means that you're going to suffer insults, stress, and really
Speaker 2: biologically speaking, you want to return yourself back to your
Speaker 2: normal homeostatus. So the body's ability and when I say body,
Speaker 2: I include the brain, the mind, and everything, and that
Speaker 2: it's ability to return itself to that sort of tightly
Speaker 2: controlled area that it thrives at is central to everything
Speaker 2: and you can either have it return thereby I don't know,
Speaker 2: lying in bed. But the trouble with that is that
Speaker 2: you're down grade.
Speaker 3: The body's not.
Speaker 2: Going to waste resources on things news, so then you
Speaker 2: can't do anything other than stay in bed. So if
Speaker 2: you want to actually get out and about in the
Speaker 2: real world, you're going to have to constantly suffer these
Speaker 2: insults and be robust enough to do them. And of
Speaker 2: course we were finally tuned to do that evolutionary, but
Speaker 2: we haven't any capability to do that once you start
Speaker 2: to air on the perials of modern life. So we
Speaker 2: need to actively seek out these things now and understand
Speaker 2: them and understand the science behind it.
Speaker 3: So that's really hell I think about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually thought it was as we were talking
Speaker 4: about that. I think we could have a quote for
Speaker 4: the Hermesis Lab.
Speaker 1: There's two stoic quotes that the obvious one, right.
Speaker 4: Is is that what does not kill us makes us stronger. Right,
Speaker 4: that's the obvious one for their Mesas lab. But I
Speaker 4: think there's a couple of quotes that sprung to my
Speaker 4: epicthetis is we must all undergo a hard winter training
Speaker 4: and not enter into lightly that for which we have
Speaker 4: not prepared, right.
Speaker 1: And he was talking about life.
Speaker 3: So that, yeah, that's closer to the en.
Speaker 1: Of it, I think absolutely.
Speaker 4: And then a little subtext from Seneca unimpowered good fortune
Speaker 4: cannot withstand.
Speaker 1: A single blow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's it's all about this idea that hormesis,
Speaker 4: so exposure to stressors or toxins that at high levels
Speaker 4: can kill you, but at low to moderate levels, particularly intermittently,
Speaker 4: into stress resistance. And and this is really the crux
Speaker 4: of all of these hormetic pathways are hermetic activators that
Speaker 4: we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2: So and then stress resistance meaning that you can get better,
Speaker 2: better normal normal range of function in homeosizes more quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually moving beyond that.
Speaker 4: So for me, hormetic stressors drive super compensation. You know,
Speaker 4: if we think of Selly's model, and and and I
Speaker 4: recently read a paper where they talked about and they
Speaker 4: used the Latin terms and it was, you know, getting
Speaker 4: back to normal eustasis. So they they called it when
Speaker 4: stress load you overload you.
Speaker 1: They call that cacastasis.
Speaker 4: So it's basically a breakdown of of your of your equilibrium.
Speaker 4: And then they talked about hyperstasis, which is an elevated state.
Speaker 1: And that's really what we're all about with the hormesis lab.
Speaker 4: Is not just about resilience and getting back to homeostasis,
Speaker 4: but how can you make yourself more robust, increase your
Speaker 4: stress resistance because of deliberate exposure to certain amount of
Speaker 4: stressors or toxins, which at high levels can kill you
Speaker 4: but we're after the stress resistance, right, yeah, And I.
Speaker 3: Think you know, we see the physical aspects of that
Speaker 3: quite plainly. Everyone does. I think about you know, strength,
Speaker 3: you've got a relativity stuff. Yes, in endurance, you've got to.
Speaker 2: Stemini, you've got to actually go out there and do network.
Speaker 2: But in the psychological realm, I think it's equally, if
Speaker 2: not more important, And it's a discussion that we're not
Speaker 2: having a society at all. And I mean the sort
Speaker 2: of clown like behavior of policymakers undergoing you know, keep
Speaker 2: people safe and removing them from stress to help their
Speaker 2: mental health is an extraordinary thing to be doing when
Speaker 2: it is actually likely to be the very problem in
Speaker 2: the first place.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and hey, there's going to let's do a podcast
Speaker 4: on that, actually, because I think there's an entire podcast
Speaker 4: on that.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about that.
Speaker 4: I mean, the really obvious one is exercise. But before
Speaker 4: we get into exercise, let's talk about late.
Speaker 2: Well. I think light has just the more you go
Speaker 2: down that rabbit hole that you're more of, you're fascinated.
Speaker 2: And I think people are well aware that light penetrates
Speaker 2: to the body, and they might not know that depending
Speaker 2: on the wavelength of that lightness. Because it's visible and
Speaker 2: non visible, it penetrates some different and the most obvious,
Speaker 2: well known one is the blue wavelength light that's in
Speaker 2: that midday sun and whatnot, and so that has a
Speaker 2: couple of effects of the festival. We're well aware of
Speaker 2: its effect on metaltonin and you know, the sort of
Speaker 2: sleepiness woman, and so it's not talking about that too much.
Speaker 2: The second thing is it's hitting in that first layer
Speaker 2: or two of the skin, and it's hitting cholesterol and
Speaker 2: it's splitting that into the active form of vitamin D.
Speaker 3: And that's a crucial part of normal ability to.
Speaker 2: Get glucose homeore status because it's involved in gluco transport,
Speaker 2: but it's also in sort of immune system function and robustness.
Speaker 2: It's massive, and I think it's the most overlooked thing,
Speaker 2: and I think there's a few subtleties that it's just
Speaker 2: coming to my mind at the moment of around that.
Speaker 2: First of all, there is an optimal point beyond which
Speaker 2: you can actually deplete vitamin D. So once you start
Speaker 2: to get some reddening of the skin, that that effect
Speaker 2: is now counter productive. So she's now depleting, and so
Speaker 2: that's something to think about when you're out in the sun.
Speaker 4: So are you saying that when you start to when
Speaker 4: you start, your skin starts to burn and then negatively
Speaker 4: impacts fitnamin D synthesis.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's an interaction there with blood glucose as well,
Speaker 2: So the higher glucose is.
Speaker 3: The more quickly you get that effect. And that's the thing.
Speaker 3: The second is that there's a much stronger age effect
Speaker 3: in your ability to do this from the sun than
Speaker 3: you think. And then she wants you to start to
Speaker 3: get our age four.
Speaker 2: It's going to become more and more difficult when you're
Speaker 2: living in places like Melbourne and Auckland in the winter.
Speaker 2: And you know, then if you're thinking about supplementation, I
Speaker 2: actually think that is actually a reasonable thing to think about.
Speaker 3: Don't either that or just booking some atheists nurser or something.
Speaker 4: Uh uh.
Speaker 2: So there's that's so there's a you know, there's a
Speaker 2: strong out effect. There's obviously skinned darkness effects. So if
Speaker 2: you're dark skinned, you're getting old and you're living in
Speaker 2: a philly, temperate climate, you're going to have to really
Speaker 2: max some effort.
Speaker 3: And I think you know, the evidence is strong for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and just to to double click on that ground.
Speaker 4: A lot of people don't realize and you know, particularly
Speaker 4: down this neck of the words, you know, we're we're
Speaker 4: very aware of the dangers of the sun with skin
Speaker 4: cancer because of the ozone and but the campaigns for
Speaker 4: that have been so successful that now in Australia New
Speaker 4: Zealand you have vitamin D insufficiency and vitamin D deficiency
Speaker 4: about the same that you see in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Speaker 1: Right well, I.
Speaker 2: Know it is ridiculous and that's actually there's a quarter
Speaker 2: of the people live in Queensland of vitamin D deficient,
Speaker 2: which astonishing.
Speaker 1: Thing to me.
Speaker 4: And most people don't realize grant that if you're vitamin
Speaker 4: D deficient it increases your risk of pretty much every
Speaker 4: cancer other than skin cancer.
Speaker 1: I mean vitamin D. I did a podcast on it.
Speaker 1: It is actually we can think of it as.
Speaker 4: A hormone as well as a vitamin because it actually
Speaker 4: regulated our a hormone regulator. It regulates about a whole
Speaker 4: heap of different hormones and biological processes. It is so essential,
Speaker 4: activates more than three hundred genes. It's just it's I
Speaker 4: think it's the most important nutrient.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. And also.
Speaker 2: Forgetting that you're saying deficient, Well that's one thing, but
Speaker 2: you know beyond actually just having not deficient to move
Speaker 2: into more of an optimal ran Yes, you know that's
Speaker 2: actually beyond a lot of the population. So you're right,
Speaker 2: you don't want to get sundur. But my goodness made
Speaker 2: light for that effect is good. So what come we
Speaker 2: move on from bottom and DA because I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's to there's two way.
Speaker 3: More interesting ones that are coming up, so they get
Speaker 3: more edgy.
Speaker 4: And actually grant before we move on, Can I can
Speaker 4: I just say for for people, they recognize the optimal
Speaker 4: level of vitamin D are one hundred to one hundred
Speaker 4: and fifteen animals per liter. Now if you live in
Speaker 4: the States, you're going to have to convert that. But yeah,
Speaker 4: that that's what we're looking at for an optimal So let's.
Speaker 2: Move on, and you're going to have to make you
Speaker 2: have to make a fair bit of effort to get there,
Speaker 2: especially that's ducks skin, temperate climate, getting old, and the
Speaker 2: other respect of courses is big too fat because it's
Speaker 2: a fat soluble vitamin, and the more fat store you have,
Speaker 2: the more it's sequested away and it's hard to get
Speaker 2: out again. So yeah, so yeah, high glucos insulin resistance, obesity, age,
Speaker 2: darker skin, temperate climate.
Speaker 1: Disaster for.
Speaker 3: Modern life. Yeah. So as as wavelinks changing into this.
Speaker 2: This far red and then the infrared category, and this
Speaker 2: like penetrates much more deftly into the body. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is an astonishing thing to me as a non physicist.
Speaker 2: But lay a observer of the thing that you've got
Speaker 2: this thing light with zero charge and zero mass, and
Speaker 2: just get that around in your head. Then confers energy
Speaker 2: and can do so across billions of light years, and.
Speaker 3: Then in the right waves, it.
Speaker 2: Will penetrate into the body, into the cells, into the mitochondria,
Speaker 2: into the electron transport change, and now it's conferring energy
Speaker 2: in the mitochondria electron transport change by moving electrons, which
Speaker 2: is of course how.
Speaker 3: We get energy from ADP to ATP.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's an astonishing thing, Paul, I don't it
Speaker 2: Just I just find that an incredible thing.
Speaker 4: Yes, for physiologists Grant who really understand that electron transport
Speaker 4: chain and and and the energy creation in the body
Speaker 4: for something like just just light to be able to
Speaker 4: affect that is frigging unbelievable, but has massive implications for
Speaker 4: human health because our mitochondria are so critical for health
Speaker 4: and and they're they're implicated in a whole host of
Speaker 4: physical diseases and neurogenerative diseases as well.
Speaker 2: Right, And and I know you've been a real fan
Speaker 2: of this, and of course you can. You can get
Speaker 2: this a natural light, but then you can you can
Speaker 2: add to this. And I think you've got the You've
Speaker 2: got the infra red type sonar, I've got the steam
Speaker 2: songs do just and have the ficture. And then I
Speaker 2: think you've got a.
Speaker 3: Your own array.
Speaker 4: I've got Yeah, I've got a I've got a full
Speaker 4: light bed that does near infrared and infrared light. And
Speaker 4: it's just because I looked into the research, I'm like,
Speaker 4: holy shit, this is if you're going to spend money
Speaker 4: on your health, and this is a very good when
Speaker 4: you can buy a whole heap of different panels. I'll
Speaker 4: link to I'll link to the stuff that I have
Speaker 4: in the show notes. But but let's let's go back
Speaker 4: to you to talk about some of the mechanisms by
Speaker 4: which this this light, whether it's red light on the
Speaker 4: skin or whether it's near infrared light. You know, what
Speaker 4: are some of the things that we're actually seeing coming
Speaker 4: out in the in the research about this well, I
Speaker 4: think the most.
Speaker 2: Interesting to me is a study of Alzheimer's patients wearing
Speaker 2: these little infrared cats and seeing improvements in symptoms. And
Speaker 2: I think there's a similar study with parkinstances. They'sn't hold
Speaker 2: me exacutly.
Speaker 1: There is, there is absolutely studies in Parkinson's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, these are problems with monocultural function.
Speaker 2: And because you know, as you'd expect the brain being
Speaker 2: the most energytic demanding organ, if you've got problems and
Speaker 2: metabolism in mitochondrial function, I think that's the first place
Speaker 2: that's already going to show up. So I think that's
Speaker 2: as stylising. So I think that's the frontier. There's another
Speaker 2: there's one more mechanism which I think is even more edgy.
Speaker 2: If I haven't sent you the paper, and we'll certainly
Speaker 2: send a link to and put on your notes. But
Speaker 2: there's a paper published at the end of twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three called melanin a Unifying Theory of Brain Health, And
Speaker 2: it's really the only paper published in this and it's
Speaker 2: in a medical hypothesis June, which I always find those
Speaker 2: interesting because somewhere on the edge, and it's a US
Speaker 2: couple who work for a biotech company that's really doing
Speaker 2: work in biologics in terms of solar energy and solar
Speaker 2: energy storage, and they've got patents in this, and no
Speaker 2: one's ready published much else on this, but they really
Speaker 2: do an extraordinary job of talking about what we think
Speaker 2: of as a pigment in the skin melanin that I've got.
Speaker 2: I've got darker skin than you. I've probably got more melanin.
Speaker 2: You know, it's also in your hair, which also got
Speaker 2: more than you.
Speaker 3: The uh.
Speaker 2: But but but but you know, it's it's an interesting thing,
Speaker 2: right because that too. It takes light and it starts
Speaker 2: to split water into hydrogen oxygen and four electrons it
Speaker 2: and it can store it, which is you know, the
Speaker 2: mitochondry don't store energy, they just produce energy, so it
Speaker 2: can store energy there and you get that sort of
Speaker 2: increase in melanin and the branding of the skin and
Speaker 2: it becomes protective and that sort of stuff and has
Speaker 2: antioxid data effectives.
Speaker 3: There's all that going on.
Speaker 2: So that's a that's there's no debate about melanin's photosynthetic properties,
Speaker 2: the fact that it's in the skin.
Speaker 1: And so on and so forth.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is that these guys show that actually melanin,
Speaker 2: it's not just in the skin, it's in most cells
Speaker 2: in the body. And they particularly concentrations on neurons, and
Speaker 2: they show that that melanin gratulates the nucleus in virtual
Speaker 2: in your oonal cell and does receive non visible light
Speaker 2: and converts it to energy. And this is I just
Speaker 2: find this an astonishing thing that there's this whole other
Speaker 2: pathway that's essentially photosynthetic as well.
Speaker 3: We don't know exactly what it does, but it's implicated in.
Speaker 2: Both Parkinson's and Outsider's and other origin to disease. Big
Speaker 2: problems in that pathway. And in fact, you can actually
Speaker 2: upregulate this pathway.
Speaker 3: With nicotine. It's the only probable benefit of nicotine.
Speaker 2: And you know, you've seen people in the biohacking world
Speaker 2: recently microdosing nicotine, and actually nicotine is actually a protective
Speaker 2: factor for Pakiston's.
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying you get up in smoke. That's
Speaker 3: obviously a dumbass idea, but the the.
Speaker 2: You know, if all this pans out to be like
Speaker 2: they say it is, or even half of it's true,
Speaker 2: then to me it means we fundamentally.
Speaker 3: Don't understand a lot of biology.
Speaker 2: And I've been reflecting so much on this because I
Speaker 2: think it was sixteen twenty eight that it was discovered
Speaker 2: that we have a circulated we have a heart and
Speaker 2: circulating bite.
Speaker 3: It's not in compartments as first thought.
Speaker 2: Now that would have seemed self evident to me, especially
Speaker 2: the amount of killing and stuff that was going on
Speaker 2: and animals and chemists look at it, but that was
Speaker 2: a first really only came to scientific attention in the
Speaker 2: sixteen twenty eight. It's so recent in human history really,
Speaker 2: And so now, okay, now I understanding this light and okay,
Speaker 2: vitamin D yeah, okay, of red okay, yep, okay, now
Speaker 2: melon and there's this other new cab of the rank.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's not well known, and I don't
Speaker 2: know exactly here it's going to paint out, but it's
Speaker 2: to me that's fascinate important.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I mean the whole light thing, which I've only really
Speaker 4: come across in the last couple of years, it's just
Speaker 4: freaking mind blowing isn't it so for people just to
Speaker 4: give a bit of a primer, a practical primer.
Speaker 1: So red light is actually visible, So.
Speaker 4: Any of the devices where you're talking about light therapy,
Speaker 4: the red stuff is visible six twenty to seven fifty
Speaker 4: and nanometers and that's really good for our skin, right,
Speaker 4: so anybody with acne or skin conditions. I mean, we've
Speaker 4: got one of those red light masks that the kids use.
Speaker 4: It's actually brilliant for skin.
Speaker 1: And Is said, yes, So I have these little glasses.
Speaker 4: That were created by a guy in London and they're
Speaker 4: called eye Power, and I will put a link into
Speaker 4: hit us.
Speaker 1: Yeah I have them.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean I've had them for like two
Speaker 4: years and you just stick them on once a week
Speaker 4: and you turn it on and it's just this really
Speaker 4: strong red light that actually has been shown to activate
Speaker 4: the mitochondria in your retinal sales and an equals one
Speaker 4: but it is how I still don't use glasses and
Speaker 4: I'm fifty three, but that stuff is great. So red
Speaker 4: light great for the eyes and the skin, and in
Speaker 4: the near infrared, which you can't see, which is actually
Speaker 4: eight hundred to twenty five hundred nanimeters, but there seems
Speaker 4: to be a therapeutic window of around eight hundred to
Speaker 4: twelve hundred, maybe even thirteen hundred, or some claims that
Speaker 4: thirteen hundred will penetrate deeper, and that makes sense because
Speaker 4: we know that eight hundred penetrates deeper than six point fifty.
Speaker 4: But there are interesting research studies. One a great one
Speaker 4: I think you've seen on Alzheimer's patients. They did twice
Speaker 4: a day with these helmets for eight weeks ten sixty
Speaker 4: to ten eighty nanometers. They had improvements in that s
Speaker 4: and it's a global test of memory clock drawing, which
Speaker 4: you know is a classic test for people with Alzheimer's
Speaker 4: improvements and cognition concentration reductions and anxiety. And as you said,
Speaker 4: then other research coming out about Parkinson's disease and these helmets.
Speaker 4: Now they are pretty expensive, but I find a guy
Speaker 4: who shows how you can make your own, so I
Speaker 4: will link to this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's pretty expensive having your life around by
Speaker 2: exactly but lost of your soul basically. So there's another thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And look, I have a red light
Speaker 4: bed that I got from red dot led for about
Speaker 4: half the price that you'd buy the commercial ones, and
Speaker 4: as you and me know, Grant Grant, they all made
Speaker 4: in the same factories in China, right, So well, we.
Speaker 3: Were scoring across the el the Express and there looking
Speaker 3: at those.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so I will I will put a
Speaker 4: link to the bed that I've got. You can buy
Speaker 4: all sorts of different panels. But red light has been
Speaker 4: shown to help with injury recovery, like that chineering for
Speaker 4: red with injury recovery.
Speaker 1: But for me, the really interesting thing is the stimulation
Speaker 1: of the mitochondria. Uh and and particularly when we get
Speaker 1: into brein health. I think that's a whole new frontier.
Speaker 3: And then yea of physiology.
Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty, it's just it's it's it's just so amazing
Speaker 4: that you just pull up this rock and all this
Speaker 4: ship comes scurrying out about stuff we we just didn't
Speaker 4: know about. And this Melanie thing, I'm gonna have to
Speaker 4: look into that paper because that's pretty freaking interesting. Now
Speaker 4: we could we could go in and talk about light
Speaker 4: ad nauseum, but I think that's probably the main thing
Speaker 4: unless you have anything else that you want to add
Speaker 4: around light.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's go and talk now about exercise.
Speaker 4: So I'll take the lead on exercise and then you
Speaker 4: jump in wherever you want to. So look, the research
Speaker 4: shows that exercises the most important thing for your longevity.
Speaker 1: It's as simple as that. And what most people don't.
Speaker 4: Understand, Grant, is that the reason that exercise is good
Speaker 4: for you is that it's a stressor. So it's a
Speaker 4: classic hormetic stressor in that if you don't do any
Speaker 4: it's really bad for you. Then you do some, it's
Speaker 4: good for you. You do more, it's better, you do
Speaker 4: even more it's better. But then potentially ridiculous amounts of it.
Speaker 4: You stop to see the benefits, and I'll maybe get
Speaker 4: you to talk about some of that, some of those
Speaker 4: negative effects, particularly around endurance training and af at the
Speaker 4: end of it. But I think the two things that
Speaker 4: are pretty key when you look at all the interventions
Speaker 4: or or things that extend lifespan, and you VO two
Speaker 4: max is a clear winner, an absolute clear winner. And
Speaker 4: there doesn't seem to be an upper limit of VO
Speaker 4: two right as opposed to the amount of time, so
Speaker 4: that there's a bit of nuance there.
Speaker 1: Right. But that paper in.
Speaker 4: Jama which we have both seen, I will quickly give
Speaker 4: an overview of this and you can comment on a cramp.
Speaker 4: But it was produced a paper of one hundred and
Speaker 4: twenty two thousand people who were all in their fifties
Speaker 4: or sixties, underwent treadmill testing because they had ACG tests
Speaker 4: on their heart, but they also did treadmill testing, They
Speaker 4: did their VO two max.
Speaker 1: They followed them for fifteen years.
Speaker 4: A bunch of people died, and then at the end
Speaker 4: of it they went back and analyzed it and said,
Speaker 4: did their VO two max their cardio respiratory fitness fifteen
Speaker 4: years ago have an impact on how long they lived
Speaker 4: or their risk of dying? Right, So a little bit
Speaker 4: of a primer context for people around hazard ratios to
Speaker 4: understand this. So what they did in the same paper,
Speaker 4: which I think is really good, they compared people who
Speaker 4: were had certain conditions and didn't. So what this paper
Speaker 4: showed hazard ratios. So if I was a smoker and
Speaker 4: you weren't, grant, my hazard ratio for death in the
Speaker 4: next fifteen years would be one point four to one.
Speaker 4: So what that means for the light people out of
Speaker 4: forty one percent increased chance of death in the next
Speaker 4: fifteen years because I'm a smoker and you're not. Everybody
Speaker 4: gets that if I had carneriorady disease, twenty nine percent
Speaker 4: increased risk of death. If I had diabetes forty percent
Speaker 4: increased risk of death.
Speaker 1: If I had hypertension twenty one percent increased risk of death.
Speaker 1: Right here we get to the exercise.
Speaker 3: What about the INSIGHT's rental disease?
Speaker 1: Well, oh sorry, yeah, yeah, cool n stage renal disease.
Speaker 4: My kidneys are packing up and my hazard ratio is
Speaker 4: two point seventy eight, So I'm one hundred and seventy
Speaker 4: eight percent more likely to.
Speaker 1: Die than you in the next fifteen years.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, what's the fir your kids?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing.
Speaker 4: If you were below average, and what they did in
Speaker 4: this low the lowest is the lowest twenty five percent,
Speaker 4: then below average twenty five to fifty, then above average
Speaker 4: fifty to seventy five, and then high the top twenty
Speaker 4: five percent, and then elite. I think they carved the
Speaker 4: top three out of the high It was two and
Speaker 4: a half or three.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah.
Speaker 4: So if I'm low the lowest twenty five percent and
Speaker 4: you're below average, my risk of death compared to yours
Speaker 4: ninety five percent increase my hazard ratios one point ninety five.
Speaker 4: This is like having diabetes, carnery art disease, and hypertension.
Speaker 1: That's the risk of me being low versus you being high.
Speaker 1: But here's the ridiculous one.
Speaker 4: If you're elite and I'm low, I have a four
Speaker 4: hundred and four percent increased risk of death compared to you.
Speaker 4: That blows end stage renal disease out of the water.
Speaker 4: In fact, you could have end stage adrenal disease, high pretension,
Speaker 4: corny already to these diabetes and smoker, and you wouldn't
Speaker 4: have to see the bloody risk factor of somebody low
Speaker 4: versus heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a massive effect, and you take notice of
Speaker 2: those as sort of that whole you know what counts
Speaker 2: as a big effect in these studies that gets it. Interestingly, though,
Speaker 2: there's a paper just come out this week around the
Speaker 2: same thing, and I think it I never quite understand
Speaker 2: these mend Ali and randomizations. Yes they use, but they
Speaker 2: make a good point around VO two for its own sake,
Speaker 2: because it's.
Speaker 3: At we go I need that number of the two max.
Speaker 2: But you know that they argue that actually it's probably
Speaker 2: the best and most accurate proxy of overall how active
Speaker 2: you are, you're sort of combined on well being. It's
Speaker 2: a sort of weighted moving average of that as well.
Speaker 2: So the more recent stuff counts, but it does have
Speaker 2: quite a long history. And actually, if you sort of
Speaker 2: low a look, there's a media to fixes on body composition, strength, strength, endurance,
Speaker 2: some of.
Speaker 3: These other measures, those are actually the causal things.
Speaker 2: Rather than vi to itself being the main causal factor
Speaker 2: in the science psych it's actually just a very repeatable,
Speaker 2: accurate measurement that proxies, you know, much of all of
Speaker 2: hormitic medicine in many ways. So that's I think that's
Speaker 2: I quite like thinking about it that way. The way
Speaker 2: that I don't understand their methods fully, by the way.
Speaker 3: But that's that's another story.
Speaker 1: I think that is a really good point. I mean
Speaker 1: your veal too.
Speaker 4: It's not really something that you can cram for, you know,
Speaker 4: I was, I was a cromer at university. I'm sure
Speaker 4: you probably were right. So it's not something that you go,
Speaker 4: I've got my vel to you. Next week, I'm going
Speaker 4: to I'm going to train like a mad man for
Speaker 4: a week. It is the best proxy of your overall
Speaker 4: training history, I think, And that and there's.
Speaker 2: A well been layer as well over above training history
Speaker 2: because your ability to recover from trying to get enough
Speaker 2: sleep well enough, it's sort of built in so then
Speaker 2: a bit as well. Yeah, so it's sort of like
Speaker 2: a master measurement in some ways.
Speaker 3: You might think about it.
Speaker 2: I mean just wondering about it this morning when I
Speaker 2: was coming up here thinking about that, you know, as
Speaker 2: VO two actually just a proxy as a sort of
Speaker 2: home more medic maths to measurement because you've got to
Speaker 2: to achieve there in the long term. You've got you
Speaker 2: can't be having a sleep stuff, You've got to be
Speaker 2: eating in a reasonable way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a very good point and it probably
Speaker 4: plays into the next one where you know, next to
Speaker 4: your veal two, one of the biggest predictors of longevity
Speaker 4: is muscle strength. So and we see this in different research.
Speaker 4: Some say it's muscle mass and others said strength. I
Speaker 4: think mass is a proxy for strength, But for me,
Speaker 4: the mechanism behind both strength and veal two is really
Speaker 4: about let's talk about the hormetic mechanisms. Because exercise is
Speaker 4: a stressor, right. Frank Booth showed fifteen years ago that
Speaker 4: when you exercise. As soon as you start, you get
Speaker 4: a big spike in stress response jenes. Right, so these
Speaker 4: are the drivers of hormesis, and then there's an activation
Speaker 4: of metabolic priority genes and then mitochondrial enzyme genes.
Speaker 1: But for me, I think the driver of a lot
Speaker 1: of this are miokines.
Speaker 4: So some people who are familiar with this podcast will
Speaker 4: have heard of but these are molecules that are released
Speaker 4: from exercising muscle.
Speaker 1: We've known for decades.
Speaker 4: I mean when I went to my master's in exercise science,
Speaker 4: my accounts, we were told helped to break down glucose
Speaker 4: and fat and give the muscle energy and then help
Speaker 4: in the remodeling to make them bigger, faster, stronger. We
Speaker 4: now know that maokines get out into your circulation and
Speaker 4: they have a positive impact on every single organ and
Speaker 4: every organ system in the brain. But interestingly, from a
Speaker 4: harmetic perspective, they activate the NRAF two and AR pathways, right,
Speaker 4: So these are involved. These are critical pathways involved in
Speaker 4: antioxidant defense at a cellular level and protection against inflammation.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's so interesting that they do all the
Speaker 2: signaling like just all over the place and specifically for
Speaker 2: this type of thing and a different the SIME molecules
Speaker 2: does the same signaling but somewhere else differently.
Speaker 4: For another you know, it's so yeah, the fact that
Speaker 4: grant you know, the first markin was discovered in the
Speaker 4: nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: We now have identified more than.
Speaker 4: Six hundred MIO kinds, so molecules produced from muscles that
Speaker 4: have signaling effects throughout the body, and we only know
Speaker 4: what about sixty.
Speaker 1: Of them do.
Speaker 4: But we know they improve the health of your immune system,
Speaker 4: your gastro intestinal system, to help your pancreas create insulin,
Speaker 4: help your liver dispose your glutcose. They remold your bone
Speaker 4: and blood vessels throughout your life. And in the brain
Speaker 4: they trigger the release of BDNF that helps you create
Speaker 4: new brain sales and protects the brain sales you have
Speaker 4: against and veg VEGF that that helps.
Speaker 1: To grow that vascular network.
Speaker 4: So and a lot of it is mediated through these
Speaker 4: stress response pathways. So for me, classic hormesis right there, I've.
Speaker 2: Been having these dreams. I don't know if you have
Speaker 2: them or just lying and being thinking about this. So
Speaker 2: I was imagining that I was like a nanosized vision
Speaker 2: of me that I could travel around the body because
Speaker 2: we're talking about these things. It's all very esotiric and
Speaker 2: we've got these mechanisms and it makes sense that it's level.
Speaker 2: But I'm just I mentioning, you know, you know the
Speaker 2: cellular biochemistry. There's also things going on there. But you know,
Speaker 2: when we I measure them in diagrams, it's not, of
Speaker 2: course what they look like at all.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, what would it be like to be
Speaker 2: inside the pancreas, I mean, randomly thinking about these things?
Speaker 3: Well, that's what reason that is.
Speaker 4: Actually that's quite interesting because this is how all this
Speaker 4: shit happens, right, It is happening in the biochemistry. It's
Speaker 4: happening at its cellular level. It's all the signaling stuff
Speaker 4: that's actually going on. But let's give people, let's give
Speaker 4: people some guidelines because I really want this to be
Speaker 4: pretty practical, and so recommendations are around training, right, so
Speaker 4: from a cardiovascular perspective.
Speaker 1: This is kind of more your bag than my bag.
Speaker 4: And talk to people a little bit about zone two
Speaker 4: maphatone and you know the benefits of zone two and
Speaker 4: then maybe some VO two max stuff, what like how
Speaker 4: do we train for those different things?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the.
Speaker 2: I think it's basically the way I can see of
Speaker 2: that type of exercise. We're talking about this too, almost
Speaker 2: completely different physiological effects of that exercise. One This is
Speaker 2: the same too, which is I prefer done fasted or
Speaker 2: without adding extra glucose really.
Speaker 3: And the thing about that is that it's activating, it's
Speaker 3: returning insulin to basic.
Speaker 2: Levels, glucose to base levels, it's starting to now act
Speaker 2: and get all the mechanisms of utopogy. And this is
Speaker 2: essentially a catabolic process which is highly anti inflammatory and
Speaker 2: very good for you. So you know, the trick there
Speaker 2: is to keep the exercise very easy, and people find
Speaker 2: this hard to do because for most people that's going
Speaker 2: to be walking, some people make running or you know,
Speaker 2: it's just conversation or you feel it you're finishing the
Speaker 2: workout feeling invigorated. So just think about that anytime you
Speaker 2: go working out, actually finishing this feeling good. And a
Speaker 2: lot of people like to use heart rate to monitor that,
Speaker 2: including myself. Off it's just an easy way of keeping
Speaker 2: because you know the various a bit day to day
Speaker 2: and you can cope with that with duration and whatnot.
Speaker 2: So that's Mapatome's formula is one hundred and eighty beats
Speaker 2: for a minute minus your age is about the upper limit.
Speaker 3: Of what we call the aerobic threshold.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, you've mentioned walking up the stairs
Speaker 2: carrying a bag of grocer's where you first start to
Speaker 2: catch any breath at all. It's not lap take thresholder
Speaker 2: and a threshold we really starting to puff, and it's
Speaker 2: just that first thing. You're just trying to stay under that.
Speaker 2: And I think you can do several hours of that
Speaker 2: in a day if you had to. Certainly you should
Speaker 2: be doing several hours in a week.
Speaker 3: And this.
Speaker 2: Even if it fears down into a zone one, which
Speaker 2: is even less than that. You know, okay, elite runners
Speaker 2: may not benefit from walking except for for recovery, but
Speaker 2: for most of us that's going to be good as well.
Speaker 2: So I think you know that as we know, and
Speaker 2: you're very good at doing guard and projects and these
Speaker 2: types of things where you're just out all day.
Speaker 3: Cracking on with it and working.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed cycling as sort of a middle ledge
Speaker 2: man in life for a time. Coffee, So that's that's
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 4: And I think just for me, I really am a
Speaker 4: good little thing for people to know about what how
Speaker 4: much is too much? And you know, at the upper
Speaker 4: end of zone two you should be able to talk
Speaker 4: but not sing, right, So.
Speaker 1: If you.
Speaker 4: Are struggling to then hold a conversation, in our likelihood,
Speaker 4: you've gone out of zone two and into zone three.
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty key.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that that heart rate varies both within people
Speaker 2: day to day and also just depending on your experience.
Speaker 2: Like I'm fifty five and that methodtime one four the
Speaker 2: eighty minuitas isn't correct for me at all. My aerobic
Speaker 2: threat was at about one hundred and forty bats per minute,
Speaker 2: and so I consider in the one thirties all day fine, and.
Speaker 3: That sort of thing.
Speaker 2: That other people are going to be in a different
Speaker 2: space than that. You know, things just are different from
Speaker 2: person to person, but you'll figure it out. It's you know,
Speaker 2: it's not too hard to work with that. I think
Speaker 2: the other end, though, that high intensity, which you've been
Speaker 2: more into than me, which is you know, it's not
Speaker 2: just it's actually highly pro inflammatory. So this is an
Speaker 2: exercise that glucose is a primary fuel, and I think
Speaker 2: you could even take some extra with you when you're
Speaker 2: before we're doing that.
Speaker 3: It's brief, it's hard, and it's going.
Speaker 2: To push up that sort of two mats type thing,
Speaker 2: but there's a whole different amount of signaling. And the
Speaker 2: thing about, of course, this is the real hormetic part
Speaker 2: of it, that this is highly stressful. The response is
Speaker 2: briefly inflamma tree and then with appropriate recovery you're improving.
Speaker 2: And I think, so now it's anabolic. So one top
Speaker 2: fix is highly beneficial for its catabolic effects on mitochondrial
Speaker 2: function and everything, and the other one is highly beneficial
Speaker 2: because it's exact opposite of the anabolic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's such an interesting thing about exercise.
Speaker 4: Yeah, at both ends of the scale it has benefits.
Speaker 4: And I think for people the way I say, if
Speaker 4: you're going to do VEO two max training, you know,
Speaker 4: the classic stuff is intervals of between three and eight minutes,
Speaker 4: and that that's probably dictated by your training history. But
Speaker 4: at the end and you're going hard, you're going like
Speaker 4: the hurt right now, oh absolutely, really really psychologically uncomfortable. Right,
Speaker 4: So the idea is that the end of the three
Speaker 4: minutes or the eight minutes, So if you're in an
Speaker 4: eight minute versus a three minute.
Speaker 1: You're in a slightly lower pierce, but you should be
Speaker 1: busted at the end of it, like like god, this
Speaker 1: is fucking horrible. And then you rest for.
Speaker 4: About the equivalent amounts if you're doing a three minute
Speaker 4: interval three minutes hard as and it's any bit of
Speaker 4: equipment that you can be a rower across trainer or
Speaker 4: a bike running running outside, and then.
Speaker 1: You rest for about three minutes. Now, if you're doing
Speaker 1: eight minute.
Speaker 4: Intervals, I don't think you need eight minutes rest, right,
Speaker 4: you need three to five minutes rest.
Speaker 1: But then you repeat those and you do three to
Speaker 1: five of those.
Speaker 4: Now, Interestingly, some people don't respond tremendously well to that,
Speaker 4: but they do respond to the.
Speaker 1: More classic Tobata shorter.
Speaker 4: One thirty thirty on, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so that
Speaker 4: and that's that is really horrible, right, I.
Speaker 1: Do those sorts of things on my versa climber thirty
Speaker 1: on thirty off.
Speaker 4: It is freaking evil, right, and you are you know,
Speaker 4: you do six to ten of those, but there's a
Speaker 4: you know, if you do five of them, that's a
Speaker 4: that's a ten minute workout, but it's hell, it's hell
Speaker 4: on earth. But that will really move the needle around
Speaker 4: your VO two max and all those hormonic stressors. I
Speaker 4: think the key that I've learned over the years, and
Speaker 4: a lot of it talking to you, is don't do
Speaker 4: all of your exercise like that, because I have traditionally
Speaker 4: done all of my I even do my strength training
Speaker 4: like that. And actually, now let's talk about strength. So
Speaker 4: for the average individual, you want to be doing two
Speaker 4: to three full body weight workouts a week. Forget about
Speaker 4: bodybuilding training muscle parts. I actually like thinking about movement patterns.
Speaker 4: Particularly you want to be functional. Now, if you're an athlete,
Speaker 4: this doesn't count, right, this is different. This is if
Speaker 4: you want longevity. I like thinking about push, pull, bend, squat, lunge, rotate, right,
Speaker 4: and then you have exercise around that. And I tend
Speaker 4: to when I'm programming, I'll do like push, lunch, rotate, pull,
Speaker 4: band squat right, or you know, try to alternately.
Speaker 3: Sort of cycle through those, like on each of those
Speaker 3: and then come back again or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I will tend to do.
Speaker 4: So we've got you've got six different movement patterns, and
Speaker 4: then I add I add a rehab one at the end, right,
Speaker 4: So I do seven, and I do thirty seconds of work.
Speaker 1: So time under.
Speaker 4: Tension I like to think about rather than reps and
Speaker 4: really emphasizing the eccentric portion. So I'll do thirty seconds
Speaker 4: of work, ten seconds of rest, which isn't rest, it's
Speaker 4: moved to the next station, thirty seconds of work. So
Speaker 4: I do seven of those, and then I do that
Speaker 4: four times, so I do a circuit.
Speaker 1: So there's okay, I'm going to go.
Speaker 2: So where I work here in my labor I've got
Speaker 2: an awesome gum I'm going to do. I like this
Speaker 2: time under the tension, but I'm going to do that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so that that is about sixteen seventy in
Speaker 4: it workout. It's less than twenty minutes. But I'm getting
Speaker 4: twenty eight sets of resistance training in there. And I'm
Speaker 4: also activating my cardiovascar system. Because you're breathing out your arse,
Speaker 4: you know you're going pretty hard, particularly when you're doing
Speaker 4: the full body movements, the bends, the and the and
Speaker 4: the squats.
Speaker 1: So I think that is a bit of a guide
Speaker 1: for people how much.
Speaker 2: How much you're putting on, Like when you're doing the
Speaker 2: a weighted part of it, they have close to getting
Speaker 2: a failure.
Speaker 4: I am pretty much at failure at the end of
Speaker 4: those thirty seconds, right, So I'm just sort of judging
Speaker 4: it a bit.
Speaker 1: Like that, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4: Now, I will then I will then mix this up
Speaker 4: where I will do specific strength stuff, right, So I'm
Speaker 4: on a bit of a strength fee. So you'll find
Speaker 4: that that that that's thirty seconds. You know, depending on
Speaker 4: the exercise, you're getting ten.
Speaker 1: To fifteen reps.
Speaker 4: That that's kind of in the hypertrophy fees. And as
Speaker 4: I said, you can lengthen the eccentric and you reduce
Speaker 4: the reps. Then if you want to train strength, it's different. Right,
Speaker 4: it's three to six rms.
Speaker 1: Like you can do one and two. But I don't
Speaker 1: recommend that normal people do that.
Speaker 4: That's more for athletes because the injury risk when you're
Speaker 4: doing a one red max is pretty high. So that
Speaker 4: you pick a way that you can do for maximum
Speaker 4: three to six that's going.
Speaker 1: To do the best in terms of strength. And then
Speaker 1: you want more rest periods.
Speaker 4: So I will then tend to because I don't like
Speaker 4: sitting around a lot, I will turn it out, yes,
Speaker 4: so I would superst even when I'm doing strength, so
Speaker 4: I might do chest back right and I'll do three RMS,
Speaker 4: so i might do wait to chin ups or or
Speaker 4: rose or something like that, and then i'll do a
Speaker 4: bench press or a standing push press, and I'll do
Speaker 4: three to six RM and I'll go chest back and
Speaker 4: then I'll have a little bit of recovery and then
Speaker 4: i'll go back.
Speaker 1: You want about two minutes rest before you.
Speaker 4: Go again, and to be very impatient with two minutes, right,
Speaker 4: So sometimes I'll do a try set, I'll add something
Speaker 4: else in and then i'll have by the time I
Speaker 4: get back to my chest, say about two minutes have elapsed.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So for people the superseit terms when you're doing you're
Speaker 2: doing one exercise, which doesn't really think the other exercise
Speaker 2: exactly the bridge space or something the other way, just
Speaker 2: carry on the other.
Speaker 4: And for me that's all about efficiency, right, So if
Speaker 4: you've got unlimited time, then you can do the classic routical.
Speaker 4: I don't have unlimited times, so when I'm doing the
Speaker 4: strength stuff, I tend to do super sets or try sets, right,
Speaker 4: and then there's all sorts of extra stuff that you
Speaker 4: can add in that I think is beyond the scope
Speaker 4: of this.
Speaker 1: When we're turning. This is just really the key thing.
Speaker 1: And then if you want to be training for power
Speaker 1: and I can't pronounce that word power pow e R.
Speaker 4: People think I'm talking about golf when I say muscular power.
Speaker 4: The key thing that people don't understand is that's quite
Speaker 4: light and it's fast movement. So it's plyometrics right, it's jumping,
Speaker 4: but it's also when you're doing a weight, it's about
Speaker 4: thirty percent of your rep max. So it's only about
Speaker 4: thirty percent of the weight that you could left. So
Speaker 4: say you're going to standard standing cable press. It's actually
Speaker 4: quite light, but it's really explosive and you need a
Speaker 4: fur bit of rest between the par stuff. Right, So
Speaker 4: that I think is an overall not exhaustive, but I
Speaker 4: think that gives people an overall guide around. So for cardio,
Speaker 4: you want to do a bit of Zone two, then
Speaker 4: you want to do the hard horrible stuff around your
Speaker 4: VIEO two max intervals, then your strength. Two to three
Speaker 4: full body circuit training sessions a week will get you
Speaker 4: a really good level of functional strength that plays in
Speaker 4: beautifully to longevity.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be driving the edge or content
Speaker 2: of your podcast, no, but I reckon now it's a
Speaker 2: good time to introduce something we weren't planning to talk about,
Speaker 2: which is around protein. Oh yes, well, I just think
Speaker 2: there's a couple of things here, and there's a couple
Speaker 2: of core studies just come out. So first of all,
Speaker 2: it's all good and while having you know, ormoned stress,
Speaker 2: especially for muscle, but you are going to need some
Speaker 2: of the actual building blocks for that, and you know,
Speaker 2: the essential mental acids are a pretty important part of that.
Speaker 2: So you know, eating protein is important. But but I reckon,
Speaker 2: there's too this is this is there's the I think
Speaker 2: we did talk.
Speaker 3: About this, the stuff that they do with the they
Speaker 3: feed the radio label phenol analine.
Speaker 1: To the cows and then they know we haven't talked
Speaker 1: about this, No go ahead.
Speaker 3: So these are these Dutch.
Speaker 2: Guys, and so this is an expensive thing, like a
Speaker 2: million million euros for a cow, right, So you want
Speaker 2: to figure out how and what happens to ingested protein
Speaker 2: and you know, how does it end up in the muscle,
Speaker 2: what's the sort of rate of turnover, and you know,
Speaker 2: how does stress affected and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: So you can't just so you've got to do something
Speaker 2: of radio label amino acids. You can't just seat them directly,
Speaker 2: because you're not really getting them from foods. To tell
Speaker 2: you the story, So they feed these things to a
Speaker 2: cow and milk the cow or get them not powder.
Speaker 2: They bchel the cow, get mints and steak and stuff,
Speaker 2: and then you can eat the mental steak or the
Speaker 2: milk powder, and you can do studies about them.
Speaker 3: Bioposite people's muscles and.
Speaker 2: Look at protein synthesis, which is pretty crazy for a start, right,
Speaker 2: and so the classic fair study is just getting a
Speaker 2: Uni student and putting a cast on one of their
Speaker 2: legs for a week, so they've got one muscle's completely isolated.
Speaker 2: The other it's the left leg as mobilize rightly, it
Speaker 2: serves as it's control. End of a week, you know,
Speaker 2: feed them some of that milk powder, biop see the
Speaker 2: muscle and sort of look at the protein synthesis and
Speaker 2: you see that it's impaired by about thirty five percent
Speaker 2: just with the So it's interesting for a start, yes,
Speaker 2: but then also in the active muscle you look at, well,
Speaker 2: what's the rate of the synthesis. You know, what does
Speaker 2: this mean for entire the entire muscle protein renewal and
Speaker 2: synthesis of the muscle and they go, oh, yeah, well
Speaker 2: sort of every three months or so, the entire muscle
Speaker 2: is turning over.
Speaker 4: That that's really important for people to understand, grant, right,
Speaker 4: is that a lot of people think your muscle is
Speaker 4: just your muscle, and it is. Your muscle is not
Speaker 4: the same muscle as that was three months ago. It's
Speaker 4: a completely new muscle.
Speaker 2: Well, and then anyway, so just to carry that on,
Speaker 2: they had somehow are studying there's a bunch of people
Speaker 2: with epilepsy who are getting some brain surger, and well,
Speaker 2: we could do the same feeding study. And then now
Speaker 2: because we've got access, we could do a little biopsy
Speaker 2: of brain to sure and look at and they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: well that looks like because it's such a meniabolical actor.
Speaker 2: But augum, the whole thing's already turning over every six weeks.
Speaker 3: Right, that's an incredible thing for the brain, right, find
Speaker 3: that an interesting Yeah? Yeah, And then the same group's
Speaker 3: done that.
Speaker 2: I think you probably heard this study just in the
Speaker 2: last couple of months, is that they actually started feeding
Speaker 2: people after exercise either twenty five grams of available protein
Speaker 2: or one hundred grams. And you know, the eIDAS are well,
Speaker 2: you know, really, twenty five grands is sort of the
Speaker 2: maxim you're going to get for protein synthesism.
Speaker 3: More than that's not going to affect muscle proteins.
Speaker 2: And actually one hundred gramds not only has a bigger effect,
Speaker 2: but keeps going for you know, twelve hours later, it's
Speaker 2: still got an effect twelve eyes.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's really interesting.
Speaker 3: So that's why you'll wrap on that stuff. Not my research,
Speaker 3: but so interesting, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: It is interesting, And you do bring up a really
Speaker 4: good point I must not even mention. It is that
Speaker 4: you need more protein than you think, and as particularly
Speaker 4: as you get older, we lose muscle protein synthesis. Now
Speaker 4: let's bring that back to muscle mass and strength. It
Speaker 4: is we lose muscle mass at the rear of three
Speaker 4: to eight percent per decade, and it accelerates, and it
Speaker 4: is not unusual for somebody to hit the ears of
Speaker 4: seventy five and they've lost up to half of all
Speaker 4: the muscle mass. What that means for people is you've
Speaker 4: just lost fifty percent of the ability for MYO kinds
Speaker 4: to actually do their work.
Speaker 1: So for me, that's really really key.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so interesting, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 4: And this muscle protein synthesis. It decays as you eat,
Speaker 4: so they now wreckon that. These recommended guidelines which used
Speaker 4: to be you know it was the RDA was zero
Speaker 4: point eight grams of protein per kilogram.
Speaker 1: Of body weight. Nowhere near enough.
Speaker 4: It's double it, yeah, double it at least, and especially
Speaker 4: as you're getting older.
Speaker 1: You want to be up to two grams per kilogram
Speaker 1: of body weight.
Speaker 4: Now the guide that I had used was and forty
Speaker 4: grams of protein is what I was aiming for after
Speaker 4: I do a workout, and about forty grams of protein
Speaker 4: at each meal. But for me, you have to have
Speaker 4: that four times a day if you want to optimize
Speaker 4: protein synthesis. And this is what most people don't realize
Speaker 4: Grant right, is that we have a fur chunk of
Speaker 4: storage capacity for glucose in terms of liver glycogen and
Speaker 4: muscle glycogen. We've got an almost limitless storage capacity for fat.
Speaker 4: But you actually don't store amino acids. And amino acids
Speaker 4: are so critical for cellular functions. So at night, and
Speaker 4: particularly if you haven't had enough protein, and especially at
Speaker 4: dinner at night, your body is breaking down your muscle
Speaker 4: every single night to get those amino acids to give
Speaker 4: them to the cells to keep the cells going right.
Speaker 4: That they are essential building blocks of life. And most
Speaker 4: people do not eat anywhere near enough protein. And also
Speaker 4: if you are vegetarian or vegan, it is harder to
Speaker 4: get the protein. Now some people are very diligent about it,
Speaker 4: but the average person who's vegetari and or vegan will
Speaker 4: definitely not have enough pro team.
Speaker 1: So they've got to really think about focusing on protein.
Speaker 3: You know, they hey, can you do this on Australia, Like,
Speaker 3: we're just it here. I've got a petition who's on
Speaker 3: a farm and that one of.
Speaker 2: The cows was just charging your and tripping your against
Speaker 2: the fence. So they knocked it off and we got
Speaker 2: a quarter of it, which was but you can buy
Speaker 2: like and you say when they call it, you know,
Speaker 2: we'll get half a beast the other thing in Ausie
Speaker 2: and you can just like get a.
Speaker 4: Load of Yeah, there's there's there's there's a lot of
Speaker 4: stuff now from from the farmer direct where you can
Speaker 4: just buy a massive amount. I mean, Cardie's dad has
Speaker 4: has caries up at his farm and occasionally he would
Speaker 4: butcher one and we get a bucket load of meat
Speaker 4: which was was fantastic. The vegans aren't going to like
Speaker 4: this little bit of the conversation, but anywhere.
Speaker 1: This is the end of Part one.