Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never
Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with Senator
Speaker 1: just since a Price. We've been talking with Senator Price
Speaker 1: about a whole range of things and getting a deeper
Speaker 1: understanding of Indigenous related matters in this country and who
Speaker 1: she is as a person. So welcome back.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: As I said in part one, I'm trying to find
Speaker 1: easy questions for you to answer, but you've put yourself
Speaker 1: up there in a position where give me the hard one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't reckon you're going to get too many easy ones,
Speaker 1: but we are finishing off in part one. I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you another question. If things go your way
Speaker 1: in the next federal election that is coming up this year,
Speaker 1: I believe, and you become the federal Indigenous Affairs minister,
Speaker 1: big question here, what positive impact do you think you're
Speaker 1: going to have for Aboriginal people in this country?
Speaker 2: That is a big question. H Well, I think we
Speaker 2: need to. My aim would be to lift our expectations.
Speaker 2: I believe in order to be successful, we absolutely need
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. What positive things? As
Speaker 2: I said, I feel like there is there's freedom in
Speaker 2: repetonsibility and being able to stand on our own two feet,
Speaker 2: but that also comes with accountability. And I've always I've
Speaker 2: always believed that we've got the structures in place to
Speaker 2: support vulnerable people. We just need to make sure that
Speaker 2: they're working effectively. So my other aim is to look
Speaker 2: very closely at where the dollars are being spent, as
Speaker 2: I said, across you know, Indigenous affairs, and to identify
Speaker 2: where it is being effective, to identify where there needs
Speaker 2: to be better accountability, to identify even when perhaps we
Speaker 2: need to apply penalties so that you know, things like
Speaker 2: fraud doesn't occur or occurs less because that comes with
Speaker 2: the whole accountability measure. But empowerment, I believe, you know,
Speaker 2: a government less government in people's lives is better than
Speaker 2: more government, which is a coalition, which is a value
Speaker 2: of those of us from the coalition. So if we
Speaker 2: can see that we're investing, where we're producing outcomes, where
Speaker 2: we can actually provide an environment for more opportunity toward
Speaker 2: economic independence and economic empowerment, then these are absolutely the
Speaker 2: sorts of things that I would look to establish more
Speaker 2: firmly within Indigenous affairs. And again my priority would be
Speaker 2: really identifying and understanding more closely who are more marginalized are,
Speaker 2: And that's across the board. You know, I don't deny
Speaker 2: that there are marginalized Indigenous people living in our cities,
Speaker 2: and they would be part of that priority. But I'm
Speaker 2: also acutely aware of the fact that, and because of
Speaker 2: research that I've done previously, is that much of our
Speaker 2: most marginalized, who sit behind right behind the ape all
Speaker 2: are those whose first language is not English, who live
Speaker 2: in experience the highest rates of DV in our country.
Speaker 2: And I mean my mother was a woman whose first
Speaker 2: language is not English. English like a third language to
Speaker 2: her and education was for her was her ticket to
Speaker 2: freedom in her life, and that to me is an
Speaker 2: absolute priority. And I know there's an argument around bilingual education,
Speaker 2: particularly for those who aren't English as first language speakers,
Speaker 2: but I don't think we should be implementing bilingual if
Speaker 2: it is detrimental to kids learning English in order for
Speaker 2: them to survive and thrive in a modern Australia. I
Speaker 2: think it can work hand in hand, but ultimately the
Speaker 2: priority for me is to ensure that kids are getting
Speaker 2: their education they need to succeed in life, and I
Speaker 2: think our education curriculum needs to be reformed in that regard.
Speaker 2: Mind you, that is working hand in hand with my
Speaker 2: colleague Sarah Henderson, who you know, if we win government
Speaker 2: is likely to be the Education Minister as well. So
Speaker 2: you know, it's taking a look at all of those
Speaker 2: things and understanding where the successes lie, where we can
Speaker 2: continue to invest in, if not bolster, and understanding where
Speaker 2: the failures exist and to ensure that we're not repeating
Speaker 2: those failures.
Speaker 1: Okay, and you mentioned then you use the example of bilingual.
Speaker 1: Can cultural heritage still be maintained in economic development? Can
Speaker 1: they co exist?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah. I mean, let's face it, you know, when
Speaker 2: it's come to the migrant community, many of the members
Speaker 2: of the migrant community, they learn predominantly their culture and
Speaker 2: their language at home and they come to school and
Speaker 2: share those sorts of things. But they are able to
Speaker 2: lead successful lives and that's what I want to see
Speaker 2: a curve for Indigenous Australians. But merging, you know, culture
Speaker 2: and employment and economic development can absolutely go hand in hand.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't see why it shouldn't, and you
Speaker 2: know we're seeing that as well. There are many businesses
Speaker 2: that incorporate, you know, their culture and the arts sector.
Speaker 2: I've had a history of working in the art so
Speaker 2: I as a previously worked as assistant curator in our
Speaker 2: al alou And Galleries in Alice Springs. I've worked at
Speaker 2: the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory in
Speaker 2: Darwin and been responsible for curating exhibitions across the board,
Speaker 2: whether it's the Telstra Art Award or whether it's our
Speaker 2: Desert mob Art Ward and the Yeah that the visual
Speaker 2: arts seen for Indigenous Australians has always been a significant
Speaker 2: place for economic empowerment for Indigenous Australians and that's incorporating
Speaker 2: culture in that. You know, tourism is a great example
Speaker 2: of being able to do that as well. Where that
Speaker 2: can be done. Yeah, you know, you don't have to
Speaker 2: discount one for the other.
Speaker 1: Okay, So it's not sort of we're just going to
Speaker 1: change completely abolish the culture, and then we got that's.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, we're not. There's no abolishing of culture.
Speaker 2: Culture is important, you know, when it comes to those
Speaker 2: living under customer law and remote communities, I firmly believe
Speaker 2: in positive cultural reform in order to improve living standards.
Speaker 1: Okay. You talked also about the B and dollar industry
Speaker 1: that the money spent, and you said you want if
Speaker 1: you got in the power and looking at where that
Speaker 1: money spent, scrutinizing and making sure that it's going to
Speaker 1: the people that need the money. What just explain how
Speaker 1: you would do that and en sure that money spent
Speaker 1: on indigenous matters is being channeled in the right direction. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Again, it's identifying where the failures exist and not repeating them,
Speaker 2: and identifying where the successes are so they can be
Speaker 2: invested in more appropriately in some circumstances. There are some
Speaker 2: organizations that are struggling but doing a remarkable job in
Speaker 2: providing outcomes. So you know, it's taking a fine tooth
Speaker 2: comb to understand that landscape more closely, because why would
Speaker 2: we want to continue to invest in something that isn't
Speaker 2: working for example? And I guess understanding where something might
Speaker 2: be struggling, with appropriate reforms in place, they could then
Speaker 2: provide the appropriate outcome that start to produce outcomes as well.
Speaker 2: It's looking at it holistically in that regard and governance.
Speaker 2: I think governance is a huge area that needs to
Speaker 2: be looked at more broadly. Uh. And the way that
Speaker 2: some organizations exist under things like the CATSI Act and
Speaker 2: whether the cats the Act is providing an environment that
Speaker 2: encourages good governance or whether it needs you could so
Speaker 2: fit and proper persons is sort of identified as you know,
Speaker 2: those who can participate in leadership positions on boards and
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. But you know, is that is
Speaker 2: that description enough? Do we need to state that? For example,
Speaker 2: you know, like I've been calling out recently, those there's
Speaker 2: been men who have been have a history of DV
Speaker 2: perpetration on sitting as chair people and significant organizations, do
Speaker 2: we stipulate more prominently that that shouldn't be allowed, that
Speaker 2: people who have had significant violent criminal history should in
Speaker 2: fact be exempt from having the opportunity to sit in
Speaker 2: leadership positions. Things like that I think are really important
Speaker 2: at looking at going forward.
Speaker 1: And that what you're saying there doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: race based either in any organization. If someone look, I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer in redemption. I believe people need the
Speaker 1: second chance. But there's certain things that don't align with
Speaker 1: the values of a position of power, and if they've
Speaker 1: made those mistakes, well, that's part of the forfeiture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, But I do feel as though there
Speaker 2: is a lowered level of expectations within the Indigenous affairs
Speaker 2: space where those sorts of things would not be tolerated
Speaker 2: outside of that, but are tolerated within the Indigenous affairs space,
Speaker 2: which is why I would seek to lift those standards.
Speaker 1: Look through the questions, there's no easy questions with you,
Speaker 1: welcome to country, acknowledgment of the country. What's your thoughts
Speaker 1: on welcome to country and the acknowledgment of the country.
Speaker 2: So okay, when it comes to the recent announcements, in
Speaker 2: terms of what we've identified the spend has been in
Speaker 2: terms of Welcome to Country in Parliament. I think it's
Speaker 2: it's it's well to me growing up in a traditional
Speaker 2: cultural setting. It's it's a reinvention. I don't know what
Speaker 2: it's supposed to achieve, and I don't believe that in
Speaker 2: when it comes to the delivery of tax payers dollars
Speaker 2: for outcomes, that's spending half a million dollars a term
Speaker 2: actually a bit more than that, because I think the
Speaker 2: Office of Defat has spent about one hundred k on
Speaker 2: Welcome to Country that that money can be better spent.
Speaker 2: And I think in these circumstances it should be used
Speaker 2: for significant occasions. If we're going to maintain it, because
Speaker 2: now it's something that's established, then it should be used
Speaker 2: for much more important events. But I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't I don't think it is necessary. If people feel
Speaker 2: strongly about wanting to put that forward, then why take
Speaker 2: an income from it. I guess yeah, I mean we
Speaker 2: being I just struggle with cultural reinventions if you like
Speaker 2: having grown up in a traditional cultural concepts, because in
Speaker 2: traditional terms, if you're going into somebody's country, well then
Speaker 2: you'd light a fire and you demonstrate that you're on
Speaker 2: your way into that person's country to pass through that country.
Speaker 2: We're not necessarily living those that life anymore, and we're
Speaker 2: part of a country that involves a whole raft of
Speaker 2: Australians and so and I think it's important that we
Speaker 2: move forward as a country together without separating us along
Speaker 2: racial or cultural terms. And I just feel like it's
Speaker 2: in many ways it's become a virtue signaling task for
Speaker 2: some individuals and become a throwaway thing for others, and become,
Speaker 2: you know, for those who want to virtue signal, we
Speaker 2: don't really know what their true intentions are. They could
Speaker 2: stand before us and acknowledge, but failing behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: or are you know, using Aboriginal people behind the scenes
Speaker 2: at the same time. And I just don't think in
Speaker 2: the grand scheme of things and empowering and moving indigenous
Speaker 2: and our most marginalized people forward that it is a priority.
Speaker 2: Certainly for me, it isn't a priority for me in
Speaker 2: this space. And in many ways, I guess when it
Speaker 2: comes to traditional cultural elements, there are elements of that
Speaker 2: culture that I've been trying to break free from that
Speaker 2: my mother's been trying to break free from that. We
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to be beholdened to something because it is
Speaker 2: considered culture. There are many things in Western culture that
Speaker 2: we say, hey, you know what, I don't want to
Speaker 2: be I don't want to be part of that. I
Speaker 2: don't want to participate in that or whatever. Freedom of choice.
Speaker 2: We live in a Western democracy.
Speaker 1: Okay, I just put account of you with the Welcome
Speaker 1: to Country, and I take on board the stuff that
Speaker 1: you say, and I agree with it in part. I've
Speaker 1: watched Welcome the countries or been involved in an acknowledgment
Speaker 1: to countries, and sometimes they hit the mark perfectly. Sometimes
Speaker 1: i'm by what it's done for me personally. I say, personally,
Speaker 1: I can't speak just like you can't speak for all
Speaker 1: Aboriginal people, I can't speak for all white fellows. But
Speaker 1: it's given me a sense of it's made me aware
Speaker 1: of your culture in part. And I take on board
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Well, it's not necessarily the traditions that
Speaker 1: you understood, but my schooling was we're talking about Captain
Speaker 1: Cook discovered this country and can you believe the turned
Speaker 1: up and there was no one here, and so that
Speaker 1: was the history. I was fed, and then to have
Speaker 1: this welcome to country when it's done right, and that
Speaker 1: for the right type of event. You can't have a
Speaker 1: welcome to country every time you walk past someone on
Speaker 1: the street. It did sort of make me just a
Speaker 1: little bit aware and reflect on what the history of
Speaker 1: this country has been. So I think there was some
Speaker 1: education there. So, you know, from my point of view,
Speaker 1: I'm happy to see that the right at the right
Speaker 1: event significant event. I get a little bit confused when
Speaker 1: you have a HR meeting at work and someone doesn't
Speaker 1: welcome the country and I'm thinking, what is this about?
Speaker 1: So I know that's you coming out and saying that
Speaker 1: would polarize the people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I have no doubt that it polarizes people.
Speaker 2: And I also know that there are some Indigenous people
Speaker 2: that come to me to say, look, they feel they
Speaker 2: cringe when it occurs, and they feel uncomfortable about that.
Speaker 2: They don't want to be singled out as the Indigenous
Speaker 2: person in the room, like pay my respects to all
Speaker 2: Indigenous people in the room. You know, it's like, why,
Speaker 2: we're just just a person, We're just people like everybody else.
Speaker 2: And then sometimes some welcome to countries say and everybody else.
Speaker 2: So well that's everybody anyway, you know. And you know,
Speaker 2: and I know some young people who feel a little
Speaker 2: bit uncomfortable, like they just want to get on with
Speaker 2: just being a student with everybody else, without their racial
Speaker 2: identity being a matter of folks in the classroom and
Speaker 2: those sorts of things. So you know, there are nuanced
Speaker 2: views to this, and that's what we don't hear enough of.
Speaker 2: And if you have a different perspective, then you should
Speaker 2: be able to have that perspective as well. Look in
Speaker 2: terms of our history, my dad was a history teacher,
Speaker 2: you know, my mother was an educator as well. She's
Speaker 2: a school teacher and history is so important for us
Speaker 2: all and as a country. I don't think we have
Speaker 2: necessarily done our best in terms of teaching Australians our history,
Speaker 2: and we do need to learn the good, the bad,
Speaker 2: the ugly in order to understand I think how far
Speaker 2: forward we've come together as a country to appreciate that
Speaker 2: as well. I don't think we need to look at
Speaker 2: it as though, you know, individuals in our history as
Speaker 2: are they complete, you know, bastards, and therefore we should
Speaker 2: you know, I mean we have to learn from it, Yes,
Speaker 2: Hitler was a bastard. But we learn from the horrors
Speaker 2: of what occurred there so as not to repeat it.
Speaker 2: You know, we don't. We don't hold all Germans accountable
Speaker 2: for what occurred. And you know, in the world wars,
Speaker 2: So we shouldn't subject our kids these days to guilt
Speaker 2: politics in that regard. You know, a little white kid
Speaker 2: born in this country shouldn't be shouldn't have to feel
Speaker 2: guilty for being a white kid in this country. A
Speaker 2: little Aboriginal kid in this country shouldn't have to feel
Speaker 2: like they are a victim without agency and are powerless
Speaker 2: to be whatever they want to be when they grow
Speaker 2: up either in this country. But and you know, history
Speaker 2: and the way we we we you know, our education
Speaker 2: system is and the way we viewer one another and
Speaker 2: accept one another is all a part of that. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: You know, we talk about in our country, we had
Speaker 2: the last sanction massacre which occurred in nineteen twenty eight
Speaker 2: and my grandfather was a young and at the time,
Speaker 2: and so he was a survivor of that massacre. And
Speaker 2: we know the stories around that that surrounded that, and
Speaker 2: you know how it all began and who was involved
Speaker 2: in killing our family, and we held a seventy five
Speaker 2: year commemorative service for that some years ago now, But
Speaker 2: in that we invited the descendants of those who'd killed
Speaker 2: our family to that to say, look, we recognize that
Speaker 2: there was these were really tough times in our country's
Speaker 2: history and it really wasn't that long ago. But we
Speaker 2: also don't hold you personally responsible for the actions of
Speaker 2: your grandfather. You know, we are together as one as
Speaker 2: Australians now together and let's walk this path together. And
Speaker 2: that to me was an act of forgiveness that took
Speaker 2: place which I don't believe, which I believe we need
Speaker 2: more of in order to progress forward as a country.
Speaker 2: You know, we we we you know, we have experienced
Speaker 2: the apology we have experienced. Sorry, So when do we
Speaker 2: as Indigenous Australians say, okay, well we forgive because forgiveness
Speaker 2: is also for the forgiver. It is it is about setting.
Speaker 2: It can be totally empowering and and it can lead
Speaker 2: to yeah that freedom, freedom of of of of individ
Speaker 2: individuality if you like. And so there's so much, there's
Speaker 2: so much involved in all of that that I think
Speaker 2: sometimes we look too simply at the circumstances and luck
Speaker 2: I said, yes, let's make sure that our schools are
Speaker 2: teaching our children our history, you know, in more broadly,
Speaker 2: but not in a way to weaponize it against anybody
Speaker 2: or toward anything other than understanding who we are as
Speaker 2: a country and how not to repeat the failures of
Speaker 2: our past, and to understand just how far we've come
Speaker 2: as a remarkable nation, where we've all contributed significantly, whether
Speaker 2: weather from the first people's, whether we're from the migrant community,
Speaker 2: whether you know my great great grandmother was an Irish
Speaker 2: orphan who lost her parents in the Potato famine. She
Speaker 2: married my great great great grandfather, who was dispossessed of
Speaker 2: his land and brought here in chains as a convict
Speaker 2: at the age of fourteen for breaking enter like these
Speaker 2: are the human stories. We are all human.
Speaker 1: When you explain it that way, it makes sense. What
Speaker 1: concerns me is that sometimes people and I hear people
Speaker 1: and yeah, I call that racism because I was in
Speaker 1: the cops and I call that racism, and there was
Speaker 1: racism in the police. And hopefully it's getting better. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I've been out for a while, but I
Speaker 1: saw it. But you have people that extreme views. The
Speaker 1: reaction from an extreme view on the left becomes an
Speaker 1: extreme view on the right, and i'd hear people go, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't take your children, or you know, like that
Speaker 1: type of commentary where you're saying you've met with the
Speaker 1: people from the massacre and you forgave them and there
Speaker 1: was some reconciliation in terms of the past history and
Speaker 1: moving forward. I see that positive. But it's just when
Speaker 1: I say I worry some of the comments or the
Speaker 1: comments that you make, or the position and this is
Speaker 1: stating the obvious where you've been. It allows people to
Speaker 1: jump on board going okay. But she said it's okay
Speaker 1: and runs that through and I'm sure that lean very
Speaker 1: much on. Yeah. I felt for you with the referendum.
Speaker 1: That was a tough time, a tough time in your life.
Speaker 1: But it was almost people saying, well, this is an
Speaker 1: Aboriginal saying I'm going to say no, oh, therefore it
Speaker 1: might be all right. So there was a lot of
Speaker 1: pressure on you with.
Speaker 2: Look and again, you know, I'm not just Aboriginal. My
Speaker 2: dad's a white Feller and half my family white fellow
Speaker 2: as well. But we're talking from a Yeah, Walbrian Celtic,
Speaker 2: you get that's right. Yeah, and and and look, I've
Speaker 2: never said it's okay to be racist. In fact, I'm
Speaker 2: dead set against racism, always have been dead set against racism.
Speaker 2: And people can take my views, and I don't have
Speaker 2: control over how they react to my views, whether whether
Speaker 2: they want to you know, suggest racist things on either
Speaker 2: side of the debate as well. Like you know, that's
Speaker 2: that's not what I'm aiming for. And I'm but I'm
Speaker 2: not going to hide. I'm not going to hide evidence
Speaker 2: or facts or anything like that. I think it's important
Speaker 2: to lay it all on the table. I think it's
Speaker 2: important for us to have respectful debate amongst one another
Speaker 2: as well, so that we can because generally, look, you know,
Speaker 2: when I do engage with you know, those Indigenous Australians
Speaker 2: who don't agree with my position on things, or have
Speaker 2: this perception of me because of the media or because
Speaker 2: of what someone else says, or because they get a
Speaker 2: snippet of what I've said without the whole what I've
Speaker 2: said behind it all in greater context. When I do
Speaker 2: have those engagements, the common thing that we have is
Speaker 2: we want the same outcomes. We want the same thing.
Speaker 2: We want to improve and better the lives of those
Speaker 2: that we love. It's just how we get there that
Speaker 2: might be a little bit different. And if we can
Speaker 2: be more tolerant in the Indigenous community, you know, people
Speaker 2: might feel like they can come forward and speak more
Speaker 2: honestly and openly. But I know a lot of Indigenous
Speaker 2: Australians who fear retribution. They see what comes at me
Speaker 2: and they go, why would I want to put my
Speaker 2: head above the parapet But certainly all levels of racism
Speaker 2: I disagree with, and I disagree with this notion that
Speaker 2: only white people can be racist, Like, as far as
Speaker 2: I'm concerned, it's judging another person based on their racial
Speaker 2: heritage negatively, that that is racism. And it's on all
Speaker 2: sides of the fence. And and you know, when it
Speaker 2: came to the Whole Voice debate, I was unpacking what
Speaker 2: the whole proposal means or doesn't mean, or you know, uncovering.
Speaker 1: The lack of.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, detail to it and information to it,
Speaker 2: and basing my position on the fact that well, despite
Speaker 2: this build up of bureaucracy that is supposed to drive
Speaker 2: change for Indigenous Australians that has failed, why don't we
Speaker 2: fix that instead of plank and entire new bureaucracy on
Speaker 2: top of this big mess that already exists. And again
Speaker 2: my position is not about and a lot of people say, oh,
Speaker 2: you took power away from Indigenous Australians. Well, you couldn't
Speaker 2: tell me how this proposal was in fact going to
Speaker 2: empower anybody. And why would I want to relegate three
Speaker 2: percent of the population to an entity based on racial
Speaker 2: heritage when we're all Australian striving for better outcomes for
Speaker 2: us all.
Speaker 1: Just wind back a little bit on what you said there.
Speaker 1: When you have disagreements or with other members of the
Speaker 1: indigenous community, but when you sit down they actually talk,
Speaker 1: you want the same things, but you're going down to
Speaker 1: a different, different path. I found the referendum it was
Speaker 1: polarizing for the country. I don't know, and I've said
Speaker 1: it here and I'm happy to say it. I vaded. Yes,
Speaker 1: I thought it was something that wasn't and that it
Speaker 1: changed things dramatically, But it was then acknowledgment of accepting
Speaker 1: our past. Probably a very simplistic view, but I found
Speaker 1: the discussions about that divided the country even further, which
Speaker 1: really saddened me. Yeah, when you look back at it,
Speaker 1: are you happy with the way it played out, well, it.
Speaker 2: Got the result that I was fighting for, so that
Speaker 2: I agree with you totally in that it divided our country,
Speaker 2: which was the worst possible thing that could have happened
Speaker 2: to us as a country and that we did not need.
Speaker 2: And it took away focus from actually trying to address
Speaker 2: the situation, you know, the circumstances on the ground. It
Speaker 2: took a whole lot of resources, It took a whole
Speaker 2: lot of attention away from that. And you know, again
Speaker 2: going back to things that I say, it suggested that
Speaker 2: things that I say gives a whole past to those
Speaker 2: who want to say racist things. Well, you know, telling
Speaker 2: people that because they wanted to vote no, or you know,
Speaker 2: planned to vote know that they are racists is just
Speaker 2: as horrible I think, you know, when like as I said,
Speaker 2: I believe that and Australians I think, have demonstrated over
Speaker 2: and again the incredible goodwill toward Indigenous Australians and want
Speaker 2: for better outcomes for us. All Australians want that overwhelmingly.
Speaker 2: Many feel a sense of responsibility, but often they can't
Speaker 2: do anything because it's actually out of their hands to
Speaker 2: do anything. I stand by my position because I didn't
Speaker 2: want to empower bureaucracy. I am fighting to empower the
Speaker 2: little people. But I truly believe we have the mechanisms
Speaker 2: and the structures to do so. We just need to
Speaker 2: utilize them a hell of a lot better than what
Speaker 2: we actually do when we need to fix those up.
Speaker 2: And you know, that's what people need to understand. And
Speaker 2: for those you know, Indigenous Australians that don't agree with me,
Speaker 2: that potentially hate me for whatever reason you want to
Speaker 2: hate me for, you have to understand that this is
Speaker 2: my absolute aim, always has been my aim, because of
Speaker 2: the death and destruction and the family members that I've
Speaker 2: buried over the years. And the reason I'm here is
Speaker 2: because of that, is because I want to work to
Speaker 2: bring about those changes.
Speaker 1: You talk about local solutions and breaking it down, the
Speaker 1: local solutions, and you're worried about more bureaucracy coming over
Speaker 1: the top. The irony is if you're speaking to people
Speaker 1: that are in the polar opposite to you, they're probably
Speaker 1: saying saying the same thing about local solutions to it,
Speaker 1: but also about representation in parliament. Now you might sit
Speaker 1: here and go, well, hey, look here I am, but yeah,
Speaker 1: the complexities of it.
Speaker 2: Just it's so many complexities.
Speaker 1: Did it have to be that complicated? Couldn't we have
Speaker 1: just said yeah, yes and let's all feel better? Or
Speaker 1: did Why did they get.
Speaker 2: So complicated unintended consequences of simply just saying yes because
Speaker 2: it felt good, or you know, not understanding the detail
Speaker 2: behind it. And we're you know, this is our nation's
Speaker 2: constitution we're talking about as well. You know the fact
Speaker 2: that I have huge problems with the fact that there
Speaker 2: is a level of acceptance of individuals that many of
Speaker 2: us know have got horrible histories, you know, criminal histories,
Speaker 2: DV histories, sitting in positions of power, the potential to
Speaker 2: enable them into our constitution, the ramifications of that I
Speaker 2: did not want to risk. I did not want to risk. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: you know, there's a there's a there's a there's a
Speaker 2: person who's been an elder in Victoria who has recently
Speaker 2: been in prison for his conduct which many Aboriginal Australians
Speaker 2: knew for years was occurring, and it's only just caught
Speaker 2: up with him. How many more of those individuals do
Speaker 2: we know are out there? Let's face it, in our
Speaker 2: Obiginal communities, we know who these people are who will
Speaker 2: either get away with their conduct or it'll take just
Speaker 2: as long for that to be brought to justice until
Speaker 2: we can clean up our backyard. There's no way that
Speaker 2: I could have supported a yes vote.
Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't honestly think I was going to sway
Speaker 1: sway we talk about. Yeah, if it goes the way,
Speaker 1: you hope that you might be re elected. With the
Speaker 1: election and the Indigenous Affairs minister, can you see a
Speaker 1: way of bringing everyone together? Because when I talk to
Speaker 1: you and when I talk to people at the opposite needs,
Speaker 1: you both, as we identify it, you're both after the
Speaker 1: same thing, it's just a different part.
Speaker 2: Well, look, if that's the ultimate focus, I don't see
Speaker 2: how we can't work together toward that. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: prepared to sit down with anybody and to have those
Speaker 2: conversations respectfully, of course, you know, to work out and
Speaker 2: work a way forward, because I know that everyone wants
Speaker 2: to contribute toward improvement, and if that's the ultimate aim,
Speaker 2: then what else would stop an individual from wanting to
Speaker 2: work toward that together? But also I also am very
Speaker 2: much interested in hearing from those individuals that have been
Speaker 2: perhaps ignored or sidelined or have been voiceless because I
Speaker 2: guess like in many circumstances, in these situations, there's often
Speaker 2: in organizations or whatever, there's a click.
Speaker 1: They can be a.
Speaker 2: Click, you know, there's there's little communities within communities, and
Speaker 2: whether people are prepared to allow others into those you know,
Speaker 2: is up to them obviously, But there have been those
Speaker 2: who have been sidelined, and I'm very much interested in
Speaker 2: hearing from them as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well I think you can't. You can't offer
Speaker 1: up any more than to give people the opportunity to
Speaker 1: express their express their views. I wanted to ask some
Speaker 1: some fun questions, just to have a bit of fun
Speaker 1: because it's so heavy what we're talking about. But just
Speaker 1: your downtime, Yes, you had ambitions or you were you
Speaker 1: actually lived the life of a rock star at some stage,
Speaker 1: your music, you work in TV, tell us a bit
Speaker 1: about that. What rocks your boat?
Speaker 2: What rocks my boat? Playing board games with my kids
Speaker 2: at home? That totally you know, you know, no, it does,
Speaker 2: though my kids will tell you I'm very competitive. You're
Speaker 2: not cheating it absolutely not, no, and I'll pull up
Speaker 2: anyone who is. But look, no, like music has been
Speaker 2: a huge part of my life all my life, as
Speaker 2: far back as I can remember, you know, taking to
Speaker 2: the stage and singing as part of the primary school choir,
Speaker 2: learning violin as a youngster and playing that for several years.
Speaker 2: Music's always just resonated with me and my self expression.
Speaker 2: And then becoming part of a hip hop group as
Speaker 2: a teenager.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: You know, I guess I performed well into my thirties
Speaker 2: as well in terms of hip hop, and it was
Speaker 2: a great outlet, like it was always got together with
Speaker 2: with you know, the well couple of them my cousins,
Speaker 2: and they're practically cousins anyway, right, But we wanted to
Speaker 2: demonstrate a group of Indigenous kids who were doing something
Speaker 2: positive in our community, because they are often headlines out
Speaker 2: youth crime and that sort of thing. We're like saying,
Speaker 2: look here we are. We're engaged with our community. This
Speaker 2: is something we love to do. And we also wanted
Speaker 2: to encourage our peers to consider doing something else then
Speaker 2: get into trouble, you know, use music as a form
Speaker 2: of expression.
Speaker 1: I think role models are so good and we hear
Speaker 1: a lot of it with sport, but if you could
Speaker 1: get in the music in any field that role models
Speaker 1: indigenous role models and all that. But yeah, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: seen the smile on your face of a clip when you're
Speaker 1: up at Tamworth Music Festival. Yes, yes, and I can.
Speaker 2: See on stage and my husband drags me up occasionally.
Speaker 1: Okay, what life could have been, But you've managed to
Speaker 1: find your way in the politics. Look, we've got to
Speaker 1: wrap it up. But I have enjoyed, enjoyed the chat.
Speaker 1: There's interesting views on what you've got and explaining things
Speaker 1: that I'm the person that sits on the outside trying
Speaker 1: to work out what's going on that's complicated the world
Speaker 1: that you know you're operating in. I respect people that
Speaker 1: passionate about things, and your passion certainly comes across. So
Speaker 1: all the all the best for the future, and let's
Speaker 1: hope we can make this place a better place.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and thank you for having me. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: hope your listeners can have a little bit more of
Speaker 2: an understanding of the human I am. But yeah, my my,
Speaker 2: my door is always open.
Speaker 1: Thank you.