1 00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:06,690 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:10,740 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. It's never been easier for Australian investors to access 3 00:00:10,740 --> 00:00:14,460 Sean Aylmer: international markets, but with those markets being battered by rising 4 00:00:14,460 --> 00:00:17,069 Sean Aylmer: interest rates and other global factors, it's been a pretty 5 00:00:17,070 --> 00:00:20,040 Sean Aylmer: wild ride at times. Throw in the Aussie dollar, and 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,980 Sean Aylmer: well, who knows where it's been going? So as 2022 7 00:00:22,980 --> 00:00:25,740 Sean Aylmer: draws to a close, what should investors be looking for, 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,280 Sean Aylmer: and what does 2023 have in store? Remember, this is 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,830 Sean Aylmer: general information only and you should speak to a professional 10 00:00:31,830 --> 00:00:35,580 Sean Aylmer: advisor before making investment decisions. We've talked a lot this 11 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:38,100 Sean Aylmer: year to the team at Wilson Asset Management, because they 12 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:40,740 Sean Aylmer: have a range of listed investment companies covering everything from 13 00:00:40,740 --> 00:00:45,390 Sean Aylmer: microcaps to alternative assets. Catriona Burns is the lead portfolio 14 00:00:45,390 --> 00:00:48,810 Sean Aylmer: manager at WAM Global and joins me this morning from 15 00:00:48,810 --> 00:00:50,790 Sean Aylmer: New York. Catriona, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 16 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:52,650 Catriona Burns: Thanks so much for having me. 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,090 Sean Aylmer: How would you describe the environment for global investors this 18 00:00:57,090 --> 00:01:01,170 Sean Aylmer: year, or for Australian investors wanting to invest internationally? 19 00:01:01,740 --> 00:01:06,479 Catriona Burns: I'd say it's been an environment of complexity, but opportunity. 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:12,420 Catriona Burns: It has been an incredibly dynamic operating environment for companies 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,959 Catriona Burns: themselves, in that really over the last three years since 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,920 Catriona Burns: the pandemic hit, you had those, obviously those initial supply 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,319 Catriona Burns: chain disruptions. You had enormous fiscal monetary policy response, then 24 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,970 Catriona Burns: throw in this year, Ukraine war, which exacerbated supply chain 25 00:01:29,970 --> 00:01:34,860 Catriona Burns: pressures and energy supply issues caused for Europe. And then 26 00:01:34,860 --> 00:01:37,619 Catriona Burns: we had, following on from that, inflation levels not seen 27 00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:42,300 Catriona Burns: in 40 years and the subsequent central bank responses, as 28 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:45,990 Catriona Burns: you've alluded to. So it's certainly been a very dynamic 29 00:01:46,050 --> 00:01:51,030 Catriona Burns: operating environment, both for companies and for global investors. I'd 30 00:01:51,030 --> 00:01:54,810 Catriona Burns: say what we're seeing now is economies around the world, 31 00:01:55,050 --> 00:01:57,780 Catriona Burns: depending on what stage they are of those central bank 32 00:01:57,780 --> 00:02:01,710 Catriona Burns: increases, starting to see economic growth slow. But at the 33 00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:05,580 Catriona Burns: same time, we are seeing inflation in certain areas like 34 00:02:05,580 --> 00:02:09,780 Catriona Burns: freight and used car prices, et cetera, thankfully coming down, 35 00:02:10,110 --> 00:02:13,200 Catriona Burns: and so we are working through some of those inflation 36 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,290 Catriona Burns: headwinds. The piece that's still a bit of a wait 37 00:02:16,290 --> 00:02:19,800 Catriona Burns: and see is around wages, and in some areas of 38 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,150 Catriona Burns: the world you are seeing some inflation pressure there. So 39 00:02:24,510 --> 00:02:28,530 Catriona Burns: what we'd say for markets generally is it's dynamic. We 40 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:32,430 Catriona Burns: are seeing, in terms of that slowing economic growth, particular 41 00:02:32,430 --> 00:02:35,970 Catriona Burns: sectors like housing, for example, which is very interest- rate 42 00:02:35,970 --> 00:02:40,620 Catriona Burns: sensitive, see falling demand, but other areas like healthcare are 43 00:02:40,650 --> 00:02:45,209 Catriona Burns: continuing to motor along, seeing significant amount of investment. So 44 00:02:45,210 --> 00:02:48,960 Catriona Burns: it's very much a stock picker's market. There are lots 45 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,070 Catriona Burns: of opportunities, because various share prices have come under pressure, 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,860 Catriona Burns: but it's dynamic, and you have to stay close to 47 00:02:55,860 --> 00:02:57,239 Catriona Burns: the companies, in our mind. 48 00:02:58,020 --> 00:03:00,720 Sean Aylmer: I mean, kind of the theme from the last year 49 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,150 Sean Aylmer: or so seems to be, with respect to what's his 50 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:07,800 Sean Aylmer: name, Zaphod Beeblebrox in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, don't 51 00:03:07,889 --> 00:03:10,169 Sean Aylmer: panic. That seems to be the theme from the last 52 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:10,950 Sean Aylmer: 12 months or so. 53 00:03:11,669 --> 00:03:13,110 Catriona Burns: Yeah, absolutely. 54 00:03:13,889 --> 00:03:16,290 Sean Aylmer: So what about as you look forward? You're talking about 55 00:03:16,290 --> 00:03:19,080 Sean Aylmer: opportunities, and you mentioned healthcare. What are some of the 56 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,660 Sean Aylmer: themes that you're thinking about over the next 12 months 57 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:23,669 Sean Aylmer: for the WAM Global investment portfolio? 58 00:03:24,300 --> 00:03:27,000 Catriona Burns: Absolutely. Yeah, so we do see a lot of opportunities. 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,340 Catriona Burns: I mean, what we've seen with the market volatility is 60 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:35,760 Catriona Burns: that you have seen valuations across the board be hit 61 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,030 Catriona Burns: by those rising interest rates. But what you have seen 62 00:03:39,030 --> 00:03:42,510 Catriona Burns: is that some companies' actual earnings have been very stable 63 00:03:42,510 --> 00:03:45,750 Catriona Burns: and continued to grow, and they're the sorts of businesses 64 00:03:45,810 --> 00:03:48,540 Catriona Burns: that we love to invest in, where their earnings are 65 00:03:48,540 --> 00:03:53,250 Catriona Burns: relatively stable, they can continue to grow through any macroeconomic 66 00:03:53,250 --> 00:03:56,520 Catriona Burns: environment. And there are a number of themes that we've 67 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,750 Catriona Burns: identified that we love exposure to across the portfolio, and 68 00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:03,870 Catriona Burns: one of those areas is health and wellness, which we 69 00:04:03,870 --> 00:04:08,370 Catriona Burns: think post COVID, the focus on healthcare has only increased. 70 00:04:08,580 --> 00:04:11,520 Catriona Burns: You certainly have demographic tailwinds when you look across the 71 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,080 Catriona Burns: world in many places, and as you see with people 72 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,339 Catriona Burns: aging, and as I know and I see from my parents, 73 00:04:20,339 --> 00:04:23,580 Catriona Burns: et cetera, people utilize the healthcare system more and more 74 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:26,789 Catriona Burns: as they age. I think that's a great thematic. We've 75 00:04:26,790 --> 00:04:30,659 Catriona Burns: got various other thematics that we think have strong durability 76 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:34,680 Catriona Burns: through any cycle, such as things like infrastructure under build, 77 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:38,370 Catriona Burns: particularly in places like the US where I am, data 78 00:04:38,370 --> 00:04:43,050 Catriona Burns: and analytics, the digitization of payments and automation. We think 79 00:04:43,230 --> 00:04:47,490 Catriona Burns: all of those thematics really do have longevity. There will 80 00:04:47,490 --> 00:04:50,880 Catriona Burns: be cycles there. There's cycles in markets, there's cycles in 81 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:57,690 Catriona Burns: economies. But these thematics, we think, are very much enduring and will continue 82 00:04:57,690 --> 00:05:00,360 Catriona Burns: to play out over the next decade and beyond. 83 00:05:00,930 --> 00:05:02,730 Sean Aylmer: I mean, a couple of names I know that you've 84 00:05:02,730 --> 00:05:07,350 Sean Aylmer: spoken about previously, Thermo Fisher Scientific, it's a medical technology 85 00:05:07,350 --> 00:05:09,630 Sean Aylmer: company. Just tell us what it does and why you 86 00:05:09,630 --> 00:05:10,080 Sean Aylmer: like it? 87 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,339 Catriona Burns: Yeah, sure. So this is a business we've invested since 88 00:05:14,339 --> 00:05:18,180 Catriona Burns: the start of the WAM Global Fund. They deliver medical 89 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:24,840 Catriona Burns: instruments and services to pharmaceutical companies, academia, laboratories doing diagnostics, 90 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:27,150 Catriona Burns: and this is really a case of a business that 91 00:05:27,330 --> 00:05:30,480 Catriona Burns: in the health and healthcare sector, you can have companies 92 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,469 Catriona Burns: that are very exposed to trial risk, a particular clinical 93 00:05:34,470 --> 00:05:38,820 Catriona Burns: trial, et cetera, where the outcome is very binary, and 94 00:05:38,820 --> 00:05:41,190 Catriona Burns: they're not the kind of business that we love to invest 95 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:43,919 Catriona Burns: in. We prefer to invest in those picks- and- shovel 96 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:49,200 Catriona Burns: businesses where they don't care which modality grows the fastest, 97 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,950 Catriona Burns: which clinical trial is successful, they just sell to everyone 98 00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:56,250 Catriona Burns: and sell those instruments and services. So we think it's 99 00:05:56,460 --> 00:05:59,219 Catriona Burns: a great example of that. This is a really high- 100 00:05:59,220 --> 00:06:03,870 Catriona Burns: quality management team that have consistently delivered double= digit earnings 101 00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:07,260 Catriona Burns: growth for over a decade. And they've been really smart 102 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:10,349 Catriona Burns: with, as unfortunate as it might be, they did benefit 103 00:06:10,350 --> 00:06:13,919 Catriona Burns: from COVID in that they were a very important supplier 104 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,830 Catriona Burns: to all the testing, et cetera, that was done, and 105 00:06:16,830 --> 00:06:20,609 Catriona Burns: they've been very smart though in that they've reinvested the 106 00:06:20,610 --> 00:06:25,200 Catriona Burns: excess cash generated through that into opportunities that will really 107 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,859 Catriona Burns: drive their growth for the next decade. So yeah, we 108 00:06:28,860 --> 00:06:33,360 Catriona Burns: think it's a great business that has multi- decades of growth ahead. 109 00:06:33,870 --> 00:06:42,930 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Catriona, we'll be back in a minute. My guest 110 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:46,560 Sean Aylmer: today is Catriona Burns, lead portfolio manager at WAM Global. 111 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,429 Sean Aylmer: You mentioned infrastructure, and of course energy infrastructure seems to 112 00:06:50,430 --> 00:06:53,130 Sean Aylmer: be a very hot area at the moment. Another company, 113 00:06:53,130 --> 00:06:56,580 Sean Aylmer: specific company that you've looked at, Quanta Services Inc. 114 00:06:57,270 --> 00:07:01,170 Catriona Burns: Yeah, so it's a business I've known for over 15 115 00:07:01,170 --> 00:07:06,660 Catriona Burns: years. The US energy grid and infrastructure is certainly an 116 00:07:06,660 --> 00:07:10,470 Catriona Burns: area that is in desperate need of investment, not just 117 00:07:10,470 --> 00:07:13,800 Catriona Burns: because of the underinvestment in the past, but also because 118 00:07:14,340 --> 00:07:17,940 Catriona Burns: we are seeing renewables introduced into the grid. We are 119 00:07:17,940 --> 00:07:21,300 Catriona Burns: seeing electric vehicles entered into the system, and all of 120 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:24,450 Catriona Burns: these things put even more pressure on an electric grid 121 00:07:24,690 --> 00:07:28,890 Catriona Burns: that was already relatively underinvested in. So we think that 122 00:07:28,890 --> 00:07:33,570 Catriona Burns: Quanta, they are a specialty contractor that provides the services 123 00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:36,480 Catriona Burns: to upgrade the grid, and they're, again, have got a 124 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,630 Catriona Burns: very high- quality management team that have done a great 125 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:43,380 Catriona Burns: job executing over time. We think there's a real tailwind 126 00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:47,850 Catriona Burns: in terms of the various infrastructure, the pieces of legislation 127 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:50,760 Catriona Burns: that have been announced in the last few years such 128 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Catriona Burns: as the 2021 Infrastructure Jobs Act and the CHIPS Act, 129 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,430 Catriona Burns: and then the more recent IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act. 130 00:07:59,790 --> 00:08:03,150 Catriona Burns: So I mean, the company's doing incredibly well already and 131 00:08:03,390 --> 00:08:07,860 Catriona Burns: growing well, but these will actually only increase the investment 132 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:12,660 Catriona Burns: and provide even more certainty into the projects that are 133 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:16,380 Catriona Burns: being done to invest in upgrading the grid over time. 134 00:08:16,650 --> 00:08:19,110 Sean Aylmer: Catriona, I've just thrown an energy infrastructure stock at you 135 00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:22,020 Sean Aylmer: and medical technology stock. How do you get your head 136 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:27,300 Sean Aylmer: around the literally thousands of companies on Wall Street and 137 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:28,890 Sean Aylmer: find the ones to pick? 138 00:08:29,940 --> 00:08:34,020 Catriona Burns: Well, I think there's an enormous amount of companies that 139 00:08:34,020 --> 00:08:37,170 Catriona Burns: are listed, but I think we have some very clear 140 00:08:37,170 --> 00:08:41,790 Catriona Burns: parameters around the types of businesses that we will invest 141 00:08:41,790 --> 00:08:45,720 Catriona Burns: in and are very much grounded in our investment process. 142 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,080 Catriona Burns: And so we only look at companies that kind of 143 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,809 Catriona Burns: tick all the boxes of the things we're looking for, 144 00:08:51,809 --> 00:08:55,290 Catriona Burns: and that is a number of things, including that we 145 00:08:55,290 --> 00:09:00,000 Catriona Burns: love businesses that have very strong industry positions, outstanding management 146 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,100 Catriona Burns: teams, very solid earnings growth potential, and then reasonable valuations. 147 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,160 Catriona Burns: And so we say we're looking for undervalued growth companies 148 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,490 Catriona Burns: around the world, but then we overlay that with the 149 00:09:11,490 --> 00:09:15,150 Catriona Burns: requirement to only buy when we can identify a catalyst 150 00:09:15,179 --> 00:09:18,150 Catriona Burns: that we think will drive the share price higher. So that 151 00:09:18,150 --> 00:09:20,939 Catriona Burns: can be, whether that's an earnings beat potential, whether that's 152 00:09:20,940 --> 00:09:25,740 Catriona Burns: asset divestitures or M& A opportunities, et cetera. So look, 153 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:29,099 Catriona Burns: there are a lot of opportunities, but we need the 154 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:32,280 Catriona Burns: companies that we're investing in to tick all those boxes. 155 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,970 Catriona Burns: And those two we've spoken about, Thermo Fisher Scientific and 156 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,860 Catriona Burns: Quanta, for example, both market leaders in their respective sectors, 157 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:44,850 Catriona Burns: as I mentioned, very high- quality management teams, and very 158 00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:48,570 Catriona Burns: solid earnings growth potential and reasonable valuations, so kind of 159 00:09:48,570 --> 00:09:53,640 Catriona Burns: tick all those boxes. Both have consistently beat and raised 160 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,360 Catriona Burns: earnings over time, so kind of tick that catalyst box 161 00:09:57,660 --> 00:10:01,319 Catriona Burns: that. Yeah, so that's how we narrow down the universe 162 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,829 Catriona Burns: from what is a relatively large number of opportunities out there. 163 00:10:05,130 --> 00:10:08,460 Sean Aylmer: Okay. One final question, Catriona, because you're on Wall Street, 164 00:10:08,460 --> 00:10:10,260 Sean Aylmer: I can't not mention the tech sector, and when I 165 00:10:10,260 --> 00:10:12,900 Sean Aylmer: say tech sector, I throw in companies like Tesla into 166 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:15,929 Sean Aylmer: that one. Pretty ordinary year, really. What's going to happen 167 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:16,440 Sean Aylmer: next year? 168 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:21,120 Catriona Burns: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a very interesting sector over the 169 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,360 Catriona Burns: last year, and I think there'll be more interest to 170 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,750 Catriona Burns: come here in terms of, like we've seen, you've just had this phenomenal 171 00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:31,500 Catriona Burns: last few years where many businesses came to market that 172 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:34,530 Catriona Burns: should have never. They were far too early in their 173 00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:38,429 Catriona Burns: life. You had businesses that had absolutely no need to 174 00:10:38,429 --> 00:10:44,280 Catriona Burns: focus on profitability and had easy access to money to 175 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,660 Catriona Burns: grow, and that environment has really changed with rising rates. 176 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:53,819 Catriona Burns: And so it's really interesting to see, even when I 177 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:57,030 Catriona Burns: attended a conference a number of months ago, just to 178 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:59,160 Catriona Burns: get a feel for where the heads of some of 179 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,890 Catriona Burns: these companies were, you know, the management of these companies 180 00:11:01,890 --> 00:11:05,130 Catriona Burns: were at in terms of seeing the reality that that 181 00:11:05,309 --> 00:11:07,650 Catriona Burns: free money is gone and you have to move to 182 00:11:07,710 --> 00:11:12,480 Catriona Burns: profitability. And I think some have got the reality check 183 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:17,010 Catriona Burns: and are really in cost cutting and let's drive this 184 00:11:17,010 --> 00:11:20,130 Catriona Burns: business to become profitable, and others are still a bit 185 00:11:20,130 --> 00:11:22,260 Catriona Burns: head in the sand. So I think there will be 186 00:11:22,260 --> 00:11:26,670 Catriona Burns: more fallout. Not all these businesses will necessarily survive, so 187 00:11:26,670 --> 00:11:29,400 Catriona Burns: I think there's certain areas that you don't really want 188 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,099 Catriona Burns: to go near. And then I think there will be 189 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:36,329 Catriona Burns: increased M& A. So I mean, I had a fascinating 190 00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:39,719 Catriona Burns: meeting a couple of weeks ago in San Francisco with 191 00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:43,709 Catriona Burns: a tech company there who had said, " We're looking at 192 00:11:43,770 --> 00:11:48,240 Catriona Burns: opportunities for mergers and acquisitions around us in the sector, 193 00:11:48,510 --> 00:11:50,400 Catriona Burns: and we had a company that had come to us 194 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,790 Catriona Burns: last year saying, 'We want 300 mil for our business,' and we 195 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:56,160 Catriona Burns: just bought it," and they said, " but we just bought 196 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,090 Catriona Burns: it for 10 million." 197 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,890 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. Wow. 198 00:11:58,950 --> 00:12:04,200 Catriona Burns: Okay. And that company potentially wouldn't have survived, so they 199 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,270 Catriona Burns: have to take what they can get. There will be 200 00:12:06,270 --> 00:12:09,059 Catriona Burns: more M& A, there'll be some businesses that don't survive, 201 00:12:09,059 --> 00:12:12,120 Catriona Burns: and then I think there will be opportunities, because some 202 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,470 Catriona Burns: of the tech companies have great business propositions, and if 203 00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:21,599 Catriona Burns: you can be selective and identify the ones that aren't 204 00:12:21,690 --> 00:12:26,550 Catriona Burns: in desperate need of funding requirements, you will find opportunities. 205 00:12:27,300 --> 00:12:30,450 Sean Aylmer: I mean, it's a real Wilson Asset Management thing to 206 00:12:30,690 --> 00:12:33,120 Sean Aylmer: look at management. I mean, you said this a couple 207 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,700 Sean Aylmer: of times, but even with the tech companies, good management really 208 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:37,380 Sean Aylmer: matters in those sorts of companies. 209 00:12:37,650 --> 00:12:43,260 Catriona Burns: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the ability to recognize 210 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:47,790 Catriona Burns: that the environment has changed, that you need to potentially 211 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:50,969 Catriona Burns: change how you've operated your business can be hard if 212 00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:53,700 Catriona Burns: that's how you've operated for however many years. But I 213 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:58,380 Catriona Burns: think the good management teams, even outside the tech sector, 214 00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:02,130 Catriona Burns: good management teams will really shine, particularly when the backdrop 215 00:13:02,130 --> 00:13:03,450 Catriona Burns: gets tougher. 216 00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:05,939 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Catriona, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 217 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:07,860 Catriona Burns: Thanks so much. 218 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,760 Sean Aylmer: That was Catriona Burns, lead portfolio manager at WAM Global. 219 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,160 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Remember, this 220 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,800 Sean Aylmer: is general information only and doesn't take into account your 221 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,910 Sean Aylmer: personal circumstances. You should get professional advice before making investment 222 00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:23,670 Sean Aylmer: decisions. Join us every morning for the full episode of 223 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:26,700 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean 224 00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:27,809 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer, enjoy your day.