WEBVTT - Credlin | 14 September 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:07.560 Peter Credlin, live from News 24. 0:00:07.820 --> 0:00:09.430 Good evening. Welcome to the program. 0:00:09.450 --> 0:00:12.450 Here's what's coming up tonight on Credlin. Another sitting week 0:00:12.470 --> 0:00:15.010 in Canberra. One Nation straight out of the blocks today. 0:00:15.030 --> 0:00:18.889 A migration policy that set the cat amongst the pigeons. 0:00:19.450 --> 0:00:22.610 Proactive policy too that's leaving Labor and the Coalition in 0:00:22.790 --> 0:00:25.270 the dust. But that's just the start of a day's 0:00:25.350 --> 0:00:29.240 headlines involving One Nation and leader Pauline Hanson. More on 0:00:29.260 --> 0:00:33.010 a big day of politics coming up. Serious questions too 0:00:33.030 --> 0:00:37.030 for the Albanese government today and a $ 75 million program 0:00:37.090 --> 0:00:39.170 to de-radicalise young people. 0:00:39.729 --> 0:00:41.050 It's facing real scrutiny. 0:00:41.130 --> 0:00:45.210 Figures today saying very limited outcomes and some people who 0:00:45.270 --> 0:00:50.230 go into these programs actually end up more dangerous than 0:00:50.300 --> 0:00:55.060 when the program started. superhuman systems that can hack anything. 0:00:55.100 --> 0:00:56.220 That's the stark warning. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.170 Over the rise of artificial intelligence, that could be straight 0:01:00.230 --> 0:01:02.750 out of a movie script. We'll talk to an expert 0:01:02.770 --> 0:01:06.209 tonight about how real the threat is and whether Australia 0:01:06.250 --> 0:01:09.340 is doing enough to reap the rewards while limiting the 0:01:09.459 --> 0:01:13.130 risks of AI. And up to 600 jobs on the 0:01:13.170 --> 0:01:16.789 chopping block in Wyalla as the steelworks prepare to shut 0:01:16.850 --> 0:01:20.330 down the blast furnace, despite more than a billion dollars 0:01:20.370 --> 0:01:24.830 from taxpayers to stop this happening. The South Australian Premier, though, 0:01:24.870 --> 0:01:28.450 conceding the writing's been on the wall for a long time. 0:01:30.050 --> 0:01:34.130 For all intents and purposes, this thing should not be operating, right? 0:01:34.190 --> 0:01:36.490 And it's only been able to survive because there are 0:01:36.630 --> 0:01:40.020 so many dedicated men and women who have kept it alive. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.640 Well, I remember the warnings a long time ago about 0:01:44.740 --> 0:01:47.540 mucking around with Australia's energy on Wayala. 0:01:47.780 --> 0:01:48.760 We'll get to that in a moment. 0:01:49.260 --> 0:01:52.060 But first, the Prime Minister today faced more questions, as 0:01:52.100 --> 0:01:57.440 he should, regarding his longstanding connection to the Marrickville Golf Club. Now, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.140 it's a connection that he's never disclosed at any time 0:02:00.220 --> 0:02:03.780 on his Register of Parliamentary Interests, something he's denied in 0:02:03.820 --> 0:02:07.550 the Parliament last week, yet was caught out in footage 0:02:07.930 --> 0:02:10.610 from the 2019 election campaign. 0:02:11.150 --> 0:02:13.770 Now, first... Here's the denials. 0:02:14.810 --> 0:02:20.250 In 2012, I've been advised that I got honorary membership. 0:02:20.290 --> 0:02:24.190 Someone made a decision. I don't have a card. I 0:02:24.270 --> 0:02:25.649 don't go to the club. 0:02:25.650 --> 0:02:26.830 14 years ago. 0:02:28.910 --> 0:02:30.850 But I make this point. 0:02:30.889 --> 0:02:31.630 Mr Speaker. 0:02:32.230 --> 0:02:35.549 If anyone wants to join what is affectionately known as 0:02:35.610 --> 0:02:41.350 Royal Marigold, what they need for two years' membership is $ 5. 0:02:41.190 --> 0:02:42.870 We'll get them two years' membership. 0:02:43.590 --> 0:02:44.550 For two years! 0:02:47.250 --> 0:02:48.570 Yeah, there he is, all the bluster. 0:02:49.290 --> 0:02:53.790 But then along came the inconvenient truth with Albanese caught 0:02:53.870 --> 0:02:55.560 on camera at the club. 0:02:57.030 --> 0:03:00.660 And today I want to announce... that a federal Labor 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:07.200 government is committing $ 350, 000 to make sure that this club 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:12.269 can host more events, support more volunteer organisations, support more 0:03:12.330 --> 0:03:15.609 charities and be even better than it is today. 0:03:19.690 --> 0:03:21.230 I come here all the time, he said. 0:03:21.870 --> 0:03:25.450 Well, as I revealed in the program last week, Whether 0:03:25.510 --> 0:03:28.769 or not the Prime Minister has or had an honorary 0:03:28.790 --> 0:03:33.510 membership of the Marrickville Golf Club or that small beer, yes, 0:03:33.570 --> 0:03:37.339 it should have been disclosed, as every interest should, and 0:03:37.380 --> 0:03:38.220 clearly it was not. 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:40.860 But I'm far more concerned. 0:03:41.410 --> 0:03:44.950 about whether the Prime Minister's decision to hand this club 0:03:44.950 --> 0:03:50.730 $ 6 million from taxpayers has given Anthony Albanese a financial benefit. 0:03:51.430 --> 0:03:53.830 You see, what I was able to show last week 0:03:54.390 --> 0:03:57.450 is that the Prime Minister owns property right next to 0:03:57.470 --> 0:04:00.850 the Marrickville Golf Course. At one stage, it was two 0:04:01.010 --> 0:04:02.210 freestanding homes. 0:04:02.590 --> 0:04:03.730 Now it's just one. 0:04:04.350 --> 0:04:07.250 But given how hard Albanese fought to save the golf 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.480 club in the past, to keep the rare green space 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.180 as parkland in inner city Sydney, how much of what 0:04:14.220 --> 0:04:17.460 he was doing was doing the right thing by locals 0:04:18.100 --> 0:04:20.680 and how much of it was about increasing the value 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.220 of the homes he owns that are a stone's throw 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:28.430 from the course. Let's not forget that access to this 0:04:28.570 --> 0:04:33.580 grants funding was by invitation only. Clubs and community groups 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.200 couldn't just make a case for funding and apply. They 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.120 had to be tapped on the shoulder. So just who 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.740 was it that tapped Marrickville Golf Club on the shoulder? 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.960 Was it the club's, quote, most famous patron, the Prime Minister? 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.690 After all, that's how the local council mayor, factional ally 0:04:53.750 --> 0:04:58.029 of the PM, Darcy Byrne, described Albanese in a Facebook 0:04:58.130 --> 0:05:02.150 post last month. The Centre for Public Integrity has looked 0:05:02.210 --> 0:05:07.540 into Labor's $ 560 million scheme, the scheme that funded this 0:05:07.660 --> 0:05:11.840 Marrickville Golf Club project, and found that some 73% of 0:05:12.220 --> 0:05:16.020 all funds were directed into safe Labor seats and marginal 0:05:16.060 --> 0:05:19.469 seats that Labor hoped to win at the last election. 0:05:20.190 --> 0:05:23.150 Meaning the accusation that this was little more than a 0:05:23.470 --> 0:05:24.810 half a billion dollar. 0:05:24.650 --> 0:05:27.790 Pork barrel, well, that deserves proper scrutiny. 0:05:28.580 --> 0:05:32.720 So too does the Prime Minister's stonewalling of reasonable questions 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.490 from the opposition, given we now know he owned two 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.969 homes right across from the golf course. One he sold 0:05:41.010 --> 0:05:47.030 in 2021 for $ 2. 35 million, but another one that Albanese 0:05:47.150 --> 0:05:51.470 still owns, worth to close $ 3 million now, that's currently 0:05:51.529 --> 0:05:54.750 rented out to tenants. Now, we know the address here 0:05:54.810 --> 0:05:57.669 on News 24, but in the interest of security, We 0:05:57.690 --> 0:06:00.290 won't reveal it on air, but I can tell you it's. 0:06:00.210 --> 0:06:03.630 About 400 metres from the golf course itself. 0:06:04.490 --> 0:06:07.430 And today he was asked to tell the Parliament just 0:06:07.490 --> 0:06:09.990 how transparently he handled. 0:06:09.570 --> 0:06:11.750 This $ 6. 0:06:10.390 --> 0:06:15.650 Million grant to a golf club, quite literally, in his backyard. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.279 Here is the question from Nationals MP Alison Penfold. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.380 The Prime Minister sits in the Expenditure Review Committee of Cabinet, 0:06:24.460 --> 0:06:28.000 that's the Budget Committee, and he chairs Cabinet. When this 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:32.490 funding allocation for the Marrickville golf course came into either 0:06:32.500 --> 0:06:35.869 meeting for sign-off, did the Prime Minister declare he was, 0:06:35.970 --> 0:06:38.869 in the words of the local mayor, the golf club's 0:06:38.930 --> 0:06:43.150 most famous patron and neighbour? Did the Prime Minister declare 0:06:43.190 --> 0:06:47.070 a conflict of interest and recuse himself from the funding decision? 0:06:47.089 --> 0:06:52.339 All right, fair, legitimate, transparent questions. 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:54.300 Here's the Prime Minister's answer. 0:06:55.060 --> 0:07:00.220 The question goes to... cabinet processes. The decision maker is 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.600 the Minister for Infrastructure. I'm not even the decision maker. 0:07:05.339 --> 0:07:07.940 Well, that's not the question. It wasn't whether you're the 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.600 decision maker or not. But did you have any role 0:07:11.620 --> 0:07:15.180 in the verification of that funding allocation? Were you in 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.920 the room when it was ratified? So that wasn't an 0:07:18.020 --> 0:07:20.760 answer to the question, Prime Minister. That was deflection. 0:07:21.630 --> 0:07:26.170 Deny, deflect, a lie. That's the Albanese way. 0:07:31.070 --> 0:07:33.630 And look, just staying with the Prime Minister, I want 0:07:33.650 --> 0:07:35.730 to pick up on the furor that's occurred off the 0:07:35.770 --> 0:07:40.050 back of these old comments from Pauline Hanson that resurfaced 0:07:40.150 --> 0:07:40.990 over the weekend. 0:07:41.530 --> 0:07:43.750 House Commission houses should not be there for people to 0:07:43.810 --> 0:07:45.950 live in them for 30, 40. And he said his 0:07:45.990 --> 0:07:48.210 mother lived in the same one. She was born in 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.060 for 65 years. Sorry, that's not on to me. It 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.780 should be limited time. You've been given a hand up. 0:07:54.180 --> 0:07:56.060 Moving on to the next one's coming through. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.450 Well, as soon as those comments resurfaced, The Prime Minister 0:08:01.470 --> 0:08:04.170 was out of the blocks on Sunday with this somewhat 0:08:04.270 --> 0:08:05.390 emotional response. 0:08:06.490 --> 0:08:11.710 I am stunned at these comments, but I'll make this point. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.600 If Pauline Hanson wants to criticise me, then that's fine. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.280 But my mother was way out of Pauline Hanson's league. 0:08:20.980 --> 0:08:21.560 Way out of it. 0:08:23.460 --> 0:08:26.380 Now, I will agree with the Prime Minister that ordinarily 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.280 the families of politicians are off limits. Not that Labor 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.490 observes that rule when it comes to their opponents. The 0:08:33.530 --> 0:08:36.930 families of both Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce routinely treated 0:08:37.270 --> 0:08:40.170 by Labor and the media as fair game. 0:08:40.710 --> 0:08:42.020 But that's the left, isn't it? 0:08:42.450 --> 0:08:46.040 One rule for them, one rule for everyone else. Do 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.120 I think that Pauline Hanson should have named the Prime 0:08:48.140 --> 0:08:49.660 Minister's mum in that podcast? 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:50.840 No, I don't. 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:56.270 But do I think that The fact the Prime Minister 0:08:56.370 --> 0:09:01.030 himself has used her as a prop, talking about her 0:09:01.130 --> 0:09:06.730 whole life story as part of his Housing Commission upbringing, 0:09:07.030 --> 0:09:08.250 do I think that's relevant? 0:09:08.980 --> 0:09:09.459 Well, it is. 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.220 The son of a single mum who was a disability 0:09:14.260 --> 0:09:17.780 pensioner who grew up in public housing down the road 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:18.760 in Camperdown. 0:09:19.620 --> 0:09:22.040 I had the security because it was public housing of 0:09:22.110 --> 0:09:23.150 a roof over my head. 0:09:23.809 --> 0:09:24.429 A single mum. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.300 Who raised me in public housing and relied on what 0:09:28.340 --> 0:09:30.850 was then called the invalid pension, now known as the 0:09:30.900 --> 0:09:31.950 disability pension. 0:09:32.670 --> 0:09:35.969 I didn't grow up with a sense of destiny. I 0:09:36.010 --> 0:09:38.890 was raised in a council house not far from here. 0:09:41.610 --> 0:09:44.910 The PM's put his mum on the table. Now, as 0:09:44.950 --> 0:09:47.750 I said, if I was Pauline Hanson, I would not 0:09:47.870 --> 0:09:52.689 have named his mother. But do I think her questioning... 0:09:52.710 --> 0:09:56.060 about who accesses public housing and for how long is legitimate, 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:01.050 I absolutely do. The access rules around tax funded housing 0:10:01.500 --> 0:10:03.339 at a time when so many Australians can't get a 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:04.660 foot in the door, well that is. 0:10:04.700 --> 0:10:09.840 Fair and it's reasonable. Using the PM's mark? No, that's 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:10.820 a bridge too far. 0:10:11.540 --> 0:10:15.510 But given he's reacted as he has over the weekend, Well, 0:10:15.530 --> 0:10:18.830 I think we can now all expect that the Prime Minister, 0:10:18.870 --> 0:10:23.130 that Anthony Albanese, will not drag her into the debate 0:10:23.210 --> 0:10:31.540 himself in the future. Parliament back for the second of 0:10:31.580 --> 0:10:33.660 the two sitting weeks. We'll go there now for the 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.200 headlines with Trini McIntosh. 0:10:36.380 --> 0:10:40.000 Australia wants to see global AI safety measures amid warnings 0:10:40.070 --> 0:10:42.790 the technology could kill humans by the end of the decade. 0:10:43.350 --> 0:10:48.250 Clearly we need not just Australian regulation, but also global 0:10:48.290 --> 0:10:48.990 efforts on safety. 0:10:49.390 --> 0:10:52.010 Rival AI bosses are calling for a slowdown in the 0:10:52.050 --> 0:10:54.030 race to develop the frontier technology. 0:10:54.050 --> 0:10:57.240 I think it is unacceptable to be taking like a 10% 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.140 chance of killing everybody by the end of the decade. 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.780 US President Donald Trump doesn't seem to share that concern. 0:11:03.300 --> 0:11:04.860 And they're bringing up things that won't happen. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.210 Confident the US will beat China in what's shaping up 0:11:08.330 --> 0:11:09.490 as a new arms race. 0:11:09.670 --> 0:11:11.070 Whoever wins, AI wins. 0:11:11.429 --> 0:11:14.470 The East v West Coast GST brawl is heating up 0:11:14.510 --> 0:11:17.020 this week. New South Wales the first to give evidence 0:11:17.059 --> 0:11:20.560 at the Productivity Commission hearings. Its initial report found the 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.040 GST Forever deal for WA is a costly mistake. But 0:11:24.059 --> 0:11:27.340 the national rules cannot simply be the prize awarded to 0:11:27.380 --> 0:11:31.420 whichever state extracts the greatest political advantage at a particular moment. 0:11:32.290 --> 0:11:34.540 WA will get its right of reply later this week. 0:11:35.140 --> 0:11:38.160 And pensioners will be hit hard by Labor's proposed changes 0:11:38.220 --> 0:11:41.480 to the private health insurance rebate. New analysis found around 0:11:41.540 --> 0:11:44.540 half of the $ 3 billion in savings from the over-65s 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.780 changes will be clawed back from Aussies on the pension. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.390 All pensioners should be carved out from this legislation. 0:11:51.570 --> 0:11:53.910 This is lazy policy, this is a lazy bill. 0:11:53.950 --> 0:11:54.449 Enough is enough. 0:11:54.470 --> 0:11:56.250 Go find your savings elsewhere. 0:11:56.550 --> 0:11:59.709 And in the House, things get heated over Labor's proposed veterans' 0:11:59.750 --> 0:12:00.190 health cap. 0:12:04.610 --> 0:12:07.390 You can cut pointing your finger at me because there 0:12:07.429 --> 0:12:10.490 are veterans out there who are absolutely hurting. 0:12:10.770 --> 0:12:13.760 I tell you who is leaving veterans behind, it's this minister. 0:12:14.140 --> 0:12:16.440 Trudy McIntosh, News 24, Canberra. 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.100 Well, spring sprung in Canberra, hasn't it? Look at that beautiful. 0:12:20.590 --> 0:12:23.830 Cherry blossom tree that Trudy was there in front of 0:12:24.390 --> 0:12:27.790 for that cross. Let's bring in Chris Ullman now, News24 0:12:27.830 --> 0:12:30.430 political contributor, for the latest on what's been a pretty 0:12:30.470 --> 0:12:34.490 tumultuous weekend of personal politics. Chris, we'll get to that 0:12:34.510 --> 0:12:36.770 in a moment, but I really want to touch on 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:39.780 your interest area and my interest. 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.059 Area, obviously energy and industry. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.589 This big news today that Wyala is bracing for the 0:12:44.630 --> 0:12:49.110 loss of as many as 600 jobs. Administrators are preparing 0:12:49.150 --> 0:12:53.150 to shut down the blast furnace at the steelworks. More 0:12:53.170 --> 0:12:55.930 than a billion dollars has been pumped into Wyala to 0:12:55.990 --> 0:12:58.929 try and keep it going. Now we know it's being 0:12:58.970 --> 0:13:02.000 permanently shut down. I'm reminded of those comments from Tony 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:03.940 Abbott about a decade ago and said, if we don't 0:13:04.470 --> 0:13:08.290 fix Australia's baseload energy mix, he said. Wyala would be 0:13:08.370 --> 0:13:11.199 wiped out, it would be wiped off the map. He 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.520 was rubbished for those comments at the time. We got 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.340 some ridiculous stuff from the then Minister Craig Emerson. 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.479 Have a look. I'm sorry for that, my viewers. 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.679 But I tell you what, Chris, no one actually wants 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:25.590 to prove it right here. 0:13:25.610 --> 0:13:29.370 But the coalition warned about this and it's happened. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.780 Yeah, and Mark Simcombe was a reporter, as I recall, 0:13:48.820 --> 0:13:51.370 when the minister did that, brought along his own music 0:13:51.410 --> 0:13:53.210 and he was shocked right out of his brain that 0:13:53.250 --> 0:13:55.490 the minister would do that. And it turns out that 0:13:55.510 --> 0:13:58.550 a decade down the track, that's precisely what we've gotten. 0:13:59.130 --> 0:14:02.020 Look at what's happened in that decade, Peter. We've seen 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.040 so many different rescue packages from so many different governments. 0:14:06.140 --> 0:14:08.000 And in the end, what have we got? A steelworks 0:14:08.140 --> 0:14:12.270 that has shut down. and has basically died of age 0:14:12.470 --> 0:14:15.070 and neglect and plenty of time in between to try 0:14:15.090 --> 0:14:17.790 and do something about it. Now, of course, the promises 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.000 are there that something will be done in the future, 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.520 but who could possibly say? And in the end, if 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.340 we have really high energy prices, it's almost impossible for 0:14:25.380 --> 0:14:28.800 Australian industry to compete. So that's one of many things 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.090 that's helped kill off Wyala. But in the end, it 0:14:31.110 --> 0:14:34.290 turns out that Craig Emerson was right. It is shocking 0:14:34.330 --> 0:14:36.050 us all right out of our brain, the fact that 0:14:36.090 --> 0:14:38.410 this has taken so much time and so much money 0:14:38.450 --> 0:14:41.650 and we ended up in precisely... the spot that he ridiculed. 0:14:43.210 --> 0:14:44.650 Well, because we haven't fixed the problems. 0:14:44.690 --> 0:14:46.330 I mean, you wrote a great piece on the weekend 0:14:46.350 --> 0:14:51.940 saying that our economic decline is absolutely entirely our own fault. 0:14:52.660 --> 0:14:55.760 And you looked at how resource rich we are as 0:14:55.820 --> 0:14:58.560 a country and the fact that we're drowning in resources. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.860 We won't use them here. We ship them overseas. No 0:15:01.900 --> 0:15:03.160 wonder we're a laughingstock. 0:15:05.290 --> 0:15:07.229 Yeah, Peter, and the thing I hear around the country, 0:15:07.250 --> 0:15:09.750 and I've been doing a lot of travel recently, and 0:15:09.890 --> 0:15:13.650 that is from our investors, overseas investors in Australia who 0:15:13.690 --> 0:15:15.930 talk about the way that we've changed the rules on coal, 0:15:15.970 --> 0:15:18.170 in particular in places like Queensland, that we're talking about 0:15:18.230 --> 0:15:21.340 changing rules on gas. So after the effect, after they've 0:15:21.380 --> 0:15:24.640 made the investment, sovereign risk becomes a problem and sovereign 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.720 risk emerges everywhere. And it's not just in big businesses everywhere. 0:15:28.140 --> 0:15:30.400 And it's not just in industry, it's also in farming 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.080 and it's in small businesses that these constant changing of 0:15:33.140 --> 0:15:35.280 rules and the latest one, of course, that we saw 0:15:35.300 --> 0:15:38.670 was on negative gearing and capital gains makes it impossible 0:15:38.710 --> 0:15:41.690 for people to make investment decisions at the big level 0:15:41.850 --> 0:15:44.410 and at small. And then we go about attacking our 0:15:44.450 --> 0:15:47.290 competitive advantage. If your advantage is in agriculture and if 0:15:47.350 --> 0:15:49.310 it's in mining, then you would think that you do 0:15:49.370 --> 0:15:52.130 everything in your power to help those industries. we seem 0:15:52.150 --> 0:15:54.050 to be going out of our way to do everything 0:15:54.070 --> 0:15:56.330 that we can to hinder them. And it doesn't have 0:15:56.350 --> 0:15:58.330 to be one thing, but over a long period of time, 0:15:58.950 --> 0:16:01.830 all of these things add up to burden on businesses 0:16:01.850 --> 0:16:03.870 that are impossible to bear. And at the same time, 0:16:03.910 --> 0:16:06.670 we constantly increase the size of government. So it's in 0:16:06.750 --> 0:16:10.840 competition for labour and capital in Australia and the debt 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.080 burden continues to grow. So all of those things together 0:16:14.580 --> 0:16:18.520 are adding up to an economy that's becoming increasingly uncompetitive. 0:16:20.470 --> 0:16:23.270 Let's go to those comments from Labor Luminary Bill Kelty 0:16:24.350 --> 0:16:26.950 saying that Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers are fuelling One 0:16:27.010 --> 0:16:31.410 Nation but they are, quote, insulting voters by welcoming lower 0:16:31.430 --> 0:16:34.880 house prices while presiding over a fall in real wages. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:39.460 He said that this country's got real problems. Very similar 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.720 to comments made by Kevin Rudd at that National Press 0:16:42.780 --> 0:16:45.520 Club address last week, where he said Australia's in danger 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:50.390 of becoming a second-rate country. What do you make of this? 0:16:50.470 --> 0:16:53.150 Because this doesn't happen a lot, not from someone like Kelty. 0:16:54.630 --> 0:16:56.730 No, and the thing is that the government can easily 0:16:56.790 --> 0:16:59.890 dismiss people like you and dismiss people like me and 0:17:00.010 --> 0:17:01.830 say that, of course, we've got an axe to grind 0:17:01.870 --> 0:17:04.740 and an agenda, but they can't dismiss someone like Bill Kelty. 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.389 And Kevin Rudd and Bill Kelty's right. This nation does 0:17:08.430 --> 0:17:10.550 have real problems. And he pointed out the fact that 0:17:10.590 --> 0:17:13.450 people find it insulting when the Treasurer goes to some 0:17:13.550 --> 0:17:16.490 baroque figure on GDP and says that workers are getting 0:17:16.510 --> 0:17:18.630 a greater share of it when they actually feel like 0:17:18.670 --> 0:17:20.490 their real wages are falling. And why do they feel 0:17:20.510 --> 0:17:23.469 that way? Because they are. And if interest rates go 0:17:23.530 --> 0:17:26.600 up again, they'll feel poorer again. And eventually we're going 0:17:26.619 --> 0:17:30.660 to get a consumption strike by consumers. As they feel 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.070 less and less poor, they're going to spend less and less, 0:17:33.109 --> 0:17:35.550 and then that will affect the entire economy. I think 0:17:35.609 --> 0:17:38.929 we are heading towards a really significant cliff in the 0:17:38.970 --> 0:17:41.570 next 18 months. The government has to be very careful. 0:17:41.609 --> 0:17:43.830 It feels bulletproof at the moment because of the division 0:17:43.869 --> 0:17:46.720 on the right, but if things continue to track this 0:17:46.820 --> 0:17:50.020 way for individuals feeling poorer, then anything. 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:50.920 Could happen at the next election. 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.990 An announcement by One Nation today, quite a significant body 0:17:57.030 --> 0:18:00.060 of work on a migration policy. A lot in there 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.100 I have to agree with, you know, a crackdown on 0:18:02.140 --> 0:18:08.070 temporary visas, stopping people migrating, visa types onshore. quite a 0:18:08.109 --> 0:18:11.960 bit there about student visas, pulling back on the ability 0:18:11.980 --> 0:18:13.959 of people who come here as, say, a student or 0:18:13.980 --> 0:18:17.020 a graduate from bringing in the family, you know, triggering 0:18:17.380 --> 0:18:21.090 that broader extended family coming at the same time. I 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.870 listened to comments from Mike Pazulu, of course, former Secretary 0:18:23.890 --> 0:18:26.869 of the Home Affairs Committee, department, someone. 0:18:26.609 --> 0:18:28.689 Who has worked for the Labor Party. 0:18:29.170 --> 0:18:31.310 He said, like I did, you know, that there's a 0:18:31.369 --> 0:18:34.430 lot in there, particularly in that return to the old 0:18:34.570 --> 0:18:38.230 Howard era of visa rules once you. 0:18:38.190 --> 0:18:38.790 Are on shore. 0:18:38.810 --> 0:18:41.190 He said there's a lot there that can be recommended 0:18:41.230 --> 0:18:44.130 in this policy. I'll get your comment on that. But 0:18:44.910 --> 0:18:47.690 I guess, you know, the events of the weekend, these 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:53.820 podcasts turning up, inflammatory comments from Pauline Hanson, they're distracting 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.879 from what I think has been some good work in 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:57.909 her document today. 0:18:57.930 --> 0:19:02.310 I think so too. And particularly on immigration, this is 0:19:02.369 --> 0:19:04.889 where you get the head nod from everybody because people 0:19:04.970 --> 0:19:07.629 recognise that there is something wrong with the system and 0:19:07.650 --> 0:19:09.869 it needs fixing. And that's not a racist thing. That 0:19:09.910 --> 0:19:13.010 is simply about the numbers and the provisions that are 0:19:13.070 --> 0:19:15.430 available to people. So if you are someone who comes 0:19:15.470 --> 0:19:17.710 here as a student, should you really be able to 0:19:17.770 --> 0:19:20.119 bring your extended family and then go on to another 0:19:20.150 --> 0:19:23.169 student visa and then eventually claim asylum and string the 0:19:23.210 --> 0:19:25.620 system out for 10 years and in that time bring 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.820 family members out? I don't think that people would think 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.300 that that would be fair at all. And if you're 0:19:29.340 --> 0:19:32.300 on a temporary visa, can you claim protection and bridging visas? 0:19:32.340 --> 0:19:35.379 And again, string out your stay here to now that 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.300 there's something like 400,000 people in the country who are 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.960 in that position. No, we should have a set of 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.879 rules which are clear to people, which set certain limits 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.800 on the kinds of visa that you have and the 0:19:45.859 --> 0:19:48.149 protections that are available to you. And I think that 0:19:48.570 --> 0:19:50.580 One Nation is doing good work here. It's the kind 0:19:50.619 --> 0:19:53.340 of work the Coalition should be doing, but seems incapable 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:53.960 of doing so. 0:19:56.050 --> 0:19:59.229 Okay, well, comments please, if you can, on the podcast, 0:19:59.290 --> 0:20:02.600 Returning to the Fore, because I mentioned this at the 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.740 top of the show, the Prime Minister is the one 0:20:04.780 --> 0:20:08.760 who introduced his mother as a political weapon to sort 0:20:09.020 --> 0:20:11.700 of burnish his credentials as coming from the wrong side 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:12.280 of the tracks. 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.670 He's done that. He's succeeded in life. He owns many. 0:20:16.490 --> 0:20:19.929 More houses than a lot of people from his origins. 0:20:20.230 --> 0:20:21.490 That's to be congratulated. 0:20:21.530 --> 0:20:25.480 My side of politics congratulates that sort of, aspiration. 0:20:25.780 --> 0:20:26.560 So he puts his. 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.960 Mum in the frame and he's now highly critical that 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.239 she's turned up and been used by his opponents. As 0:20:33.260 --> 0:20:35.650 I said, I wouldn't have done it. But I do 0:20:35.710 --> 0:20:38.129 think the debate about how long people are in public 0:20:38.170 --> 0:20:42.790 housing and what are the rules for access, I think 0:20:42.810 --> 0:20:47.080 that's absolutely legitimate. I mean, did Hanson go too far here? 0:20:49.060 --> 0:20:51.180 Look, she should be aware of the fact that now 0:20:51.220 --> 0:20:54.600 what people are doing is trawling back through absolutely everything 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.139 that she has said, not just in the last couple 0:20:57.180 --> 0:20:59.380 of months, but in the last few years to try 0:20:59.420 --> 0:21:02.750 and get something on her. And this is an emotional 0:21:02.869 --> 0:21:05.170 argument that's being made against her by something which was 0:21:05.550 --> 0:21:07.350 a little bit careless. Like she did not have to 0:21:07.390 --> 0:21:09.669 bring in Anthony Albanese's mother in order to make the 0:21:09.730 --> 0:21:12.830 point that she wanted to make. So as a general rule, 0:21:13.010 --> 0:21:16.359 I agree with you, families should be you know, out 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.420 of reach, but we know that those rules have not 0:21:20.460 --> 0:21:23.060 been honoured in the past by both sides of politics. So, 0:21:23.100 --> 0:21:25.350 you know, that is... But Pauline Hanson has really got 0:21:25.369 --> 0:21:27.290 to work out what is the main game for her 0:21:27.350 --> 0:21:29.810 and try and stick to her knitting. She can really 0:21:29.850 --> 0:21:34.340 go in hard on immigration. without saying, for example, you know, 0:21:35.170 --> 0:21:37.700 bringing individuals into this sort of thing or going hard 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:41.800 on housing without bringing individuals into it or their families. 0:21:41.859 --> 0:21:43.920 So I think that if she sticks to the main game, 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.080 she's got plenty of arguments to make and this stuff 0:21:46.100 --> 0:21:49.070 is just a distraction. But she should be well aware 0:21:49.109 --> 0:21:50.850 by now of the fact that anything that she's said 0:21:50.910 --> 0:21:52.750 in the past is now fair game and people will 0:21:52.770 --> 0:21:53.470 try and beat it up. 0:21:55.150 --> 0:21:57.230 Yeah, we'll see what else comes out. Thank you very much. 0:21:57.630 --> 0:21:58.150 Grace Yeoman. 0:21:58.970 --> 0:22:00.690 I want to go to a big story that's developed 0:22:00.730 --> 0:22:03.110 in recent days. This is something, you know, I have 0:22:03.250 --> 0:22:07.230 watched closely here on Credlin, and that's growing concerns over 0:22:07.260 --> 0:22:13.290 whether Labor's de-radicalisation programs actually work. Now, we spend as 0:22:13.350 --> 0:22:18.220 taxpayers some $ 75 million on these programs that do many things, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.800 but mainly they are an attempt to stop kids and 0:22:23.140 --> 0:22:28.720 adults who have been identified at risk of extremism, mainly 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.310 radical Islamic extremism, to pull them back from the brink. 0:22:33.890 --> 0:22:36.770 And there's reports in the papers over the weekend that 0:22:37.050 --> 0:22:41.410 the vast majority of almost 300 participants assessed in these 0:22:41.470 --> 0:22:45.670 programs are Well, some have ended up more dangerous, 24%, 0:22:45.670 --> 0:22:49.530 and only 23, 23 out of 300, have shown some 0:22:49.770 --> 0:22:55.020 sort of positive behavioural change. Says the reports, some 227, 0:22:55.020 --> 0:22:59.919 that's the vast majority, 300, well, they are reported to 0:22:59.940 --> 0:23:03.820 have had no change when it came to concern levels 0:23:04.380 --> 0:23:07.440 about their extremism. Here to discuss this and more, former 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:11.550 AFP Detective Superintendent David Craig says, Well, David, as I 0:23:11.570 --> 0:23:13.470 said at the outset, you and I have long talked 0:23:13.530 --> 0:23:15.109 about these issues. 0:23:15.770 --> 0:23:17.330 An expert in this. 0:23:17.300 --> 0:23:20.880 Area, terrorism insurgency expert Clive Williams, said in the piece 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.600 on the weekend, these numbers do not meet the bar. 0:23:23.980 --> 0:23:27.800 They are consistent with the mixed, limited evidence base for 0:23:27.820 --> 0:23:31.220 those interventions in Australia and comparable jurisdictions. 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:33.010 Helpful for a minority. 0:23:33.540 --> 0:23:38.550 stabilising or ineffective for many and insufficient, he says, as 0:23:38.590 --> 0:23:43.670 a primary safeguard against the current threat environment. Now, that, David, 0:23:43.690 --> 0:23:47.570 has been my biggest criticism. We don't have enough resourcing 0:23:47.650 --> 0:23:49.210 for ASIO and our police. 0:23:49.250 --> 0:23:50.369 That's very, very clear. 0:23:50.910 --> 0:23:52.940 When you push the government and what they are doing 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:57.159 to keep Australians safe from radical Islam, from extremists of 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:01.119 the ideology, they point to these DRAD programs and you 0:24:01.180 --> 0:24:05.190 and I know from Australian and overseas experience, they don't 0:24:05.300 --> 0:24:08.140 cut the mustard, and here's the evidence yet again. 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:13.639 Yeah, that's right, Peter. This is just appalling, and at 0:24:13.700 --> 0:24:16.780 least it's out in the open now. I mean, Home 0:24:16.820 --> 0:24:20.889 Affairs themselves have stated that they do not have a 0:24:20.970 --> 0:24:24.110 nationally consistent definition of what success in one of these 0:24:24.190 --> 0:24:30.919 programs is. Now, it seems to combine de-radicalisation and disengagement. Now, 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.830 they're two very, very different things. You can have someone 0:24:33.890 --> 0:24:37.650 disengaged from radical people or radical groups or radical material. 0:24:38.410 --> 0:24:41.710 and isolate them from that, but you haven't changed the ideology. 0:24:41.770 --> 0:24:44.320 So then you're setting up the perfect storm for a 0:24:44.340 --> 0:24:46.889 lone wolf attack that still has the ideology, but is 0:24:46.950 --> 0:24:50.360 then isolated from the community and harder to detect. So, 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:54.859 I mean, that's disengagement. It really doesn't work. Deradicalisation, if 0:24:54.900 --> 0:24:56.359 it worked, it would be good, but I see it 0:24:56.400 --> 0:25:03.280 more as a unicorn that we're chasing. In fact, looking 0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:05.320 at those figures, Peter, it looks to me like that's 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:10.970 an 84% failure rate. by this government in relation to de-radicalisation. 0:25:12.300 --> 0:25:13.900 It just doesn't work. 0:25:14.460 --> 0:25:14.700 Sorry? 0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:17.220 No, no, you finish, David. 0:25:18.820 --> 0:25:24.000 We're entitled to ask questions, Peter. In 2022, this government 0:25:24.060 --> 0:25:29.909 told the Parliament that we'd spent $ 120 million in various forms, 0:25:29.990 --> 0:25:34.630 various governments, since 2013. Then they betrothed or pledged another... 0:25:34.310 --> 0:25:44.030 $ 61 million and another $ 106 million is coming. Now, after 0:25:44.050 --> 0:25:46.109 all this time, they haven't got a set definition of 0:25:46.170 --> 0:25:50.790 what success is for almost $ 200 million in a 13-year program. 0:25:50.810 --> 0:25:54.400 I mean, we're entitled to ask, who has entered this program? 0:25:54.500 --> 0:25:57.899 What effect has it had? Has it been successful? Has 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:01.090 it made it worse? And is the community safe? It 0:26:01.130 --> 0:26:03.969 should be measured by the actions of the people that 0:26:03.990 --> 0:26:07.899 participate in the course or the program, not the program 0:26:08.060 --> 0:26:08.940 activity itself. 0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:12.699 And I want to know too, David, because this is 0:26:12.740 --> 0:26:18.170 incredibly opaque, who is running these programs? What's the engagement 0:26:18.210 --> 0:26:21.010 profile like? You know, is there a curriculum that's published 0:26:21.070 --> 0:26:23.750 as a uniform around the country or is it ad 0:26:23.770 --> 0:26:27.490 hoc determined by the very individuals in each state which 0:26:27.530 --> 0:26:30.490 are different? in terms of who delivers the program. I 0:26:30.510 --> 0:26:32.669 know in the case of Victoria, some of them are 0:26:32.910 --> 0:26:35.840 delivered by Muslim organisations. Well, if people are ending up 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:38.639 about where they went into the program or in a 0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:42.800 couple of cases there, what, 24, 25, more radical, well, 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:45.479 you know, are they getting more funding or are we 0:26:45.590 --> 0:26:50.790 stopping these providers from delivering these programs? There is basically 0:26:50.850 --> 0:26:54.190 no audit. Every time I've gone down the borough, it's 0:26:54.230 --> 0:26:56.790 my weekend homework, and I try and follow the money 0:26:56.830 --> 0:27:00.370 and look where the mentions are in various annual reports 0:27:00.450 --> 0:27:02.869 about how many people they have through the door on 0:27:02.930 --> 0:27:07.889 these programs, age profiles and everything. It's almost designed to 0:27:07.950 --> 0:27:10.320 make it impossible to get a broad picture. 0:27:12.060 --> 0:27:15.040 Yeah, so we're spending a lot of money on an 0:27:15.580 --> 0:27:18.790 unaccountable way on a program that we can't even have 0:27:18.810 --> 0:27:21.950 a definition of success, let alone measure it and report on. 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:25.550 I mean, it's appalling, Peter. I mean, the Australian Federal Police, 0:27:25.590 --> 0:27:32.470 as we know, has had significant vacancies in counterterrorism from 25% 0:27:32.470 --> 0:27:36.250 to 39%, as we've discussed in that latest submission to 0:27:36.270 --> 0:27:39.390 the Royal Commission, and that was brought to Chrissie Barrett's 0:27:39.430 --> 0:27:44.250 attention informally or through others formally, and here we are 0:27:44.330 --> 0:27:48.790 spending $ 200 million over 13 years for what? We just 0:27:48.850 --> 0:27:50.370 don't know. It's not good enough. 0:27:51.890 --> 0:27:54.730 I want to go to some terrible news just the 0:27:54.750 --> 0:27:57.450 other day. Federal police officers sweeping on a 30-year-old man 0:27:57.470 --> 0:28:00.209 who was due to leave Australia to fly to Afghanistan 0:28:00.230 --> 0:28:04.820 following allegations he had shared ISIS-inspired violent extremism. This is 0:28:04.859 --> 0:28:08.520 a material in an online chat group. The AFP will 0:28:08.540 --> 0:28:12.300 allege it swooped on the bloke after finding this disturbing 0:28:12.700 --> 0:28:18.090 ISIS-related material. beheadings, images of dead children shared in the group. 0:28:18.390 --> 0:28:22.210 He was attempting to fly out of this country to Kabul. Now, 0:28:22.430 --> 0:28:26.250 I don't know anything more in relation to this individual, 0:28:26.869 --> 0:28:29.030 but I am reminded when I went back and listened 0:28:29.050 --> 0:28:31.450 to a whole lot of podcast material and I read 0:28:31.490 --> 0:28:35.050 a bit more around the anniversary of 9-11, that a 0:28:35.090 --> 0:28:39.280 lot of the training of the hijackers, the terrorist hijackers, 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.520 occurred in Afghanistan. There are still training camps, as you know, 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:50.100 in Afghanistan. That would concern me. But this incident, in 0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:54.080 light of our terror threat level, David, says that we 0:28:54.140 --> 0:28:56.290 really should be worried in this country and we should 0:28:56.490 --> 0:29:00.250 be demanding, I guess, confidence from the Prime Minister and 0:29:00.310 --> 0:29:05.070 others that they are doing everything possible to keep Australians safe. 0:29:07.150 --> 0:29:10.560 Look, I agree. I mean, there's certain... I mean, this 0:29:10.630 --> 0:29:14.040 all started, it's a little bit of a textbook intelligence 0:29:14.140 --> 0:29:18.480 lead from November 2024 when someone came back into Australia 0:29:18.500 --> 0:29:22.020 and was identified as having radicalising material. Now, that's a 0:29:22.060 --> 0:29:24.620 good place to start. And from there, it has been 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.400 developed by the AFP into now a network of six 0:29:27.460 --> 0:29:33.130 people that are sharing this extremely radical, allegedly, extremely radical material, 0:29:33.730 --> 0:29:38.870 which further confirms or normalises, desensitises them to the actual 0:29:39.370 --> 0:29:41.690 horrors and violence of it and works as propaganda to 0:29:41.750 --> 0:29:45.300 recruit other people to the radical side of Islam. So 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.860 I'll give credit to the AFP in that they've developed 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:51.100 it and they have seemed to have taken action before 0:29:51.580 --> 0:29:55.660 an event. This did not happen with Naveed and Sajid 0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:58.780 Akram before Bondi. This is exactly the opposite of that. 0:30:00.590 --> 0:30:02.090 I'll leave it there, David Craig. Thank you. 0:30:02.690 --> 0:30:04.500 Look, just before the break, related to all of this, 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:06.480 I want to play some comments from the former boss 0:30:06.500 --> 0:30:09.820 of Home Affairs, Mike Pizzullo. He made these comments this morning, 0:30:10.350 --> 0:30:13.610 reacting to a very worrying statement last Friday on the 0:30:13.670 --> 0:30:18.900 anniversary of 9-11 about the ongoing terror threat levels in Australia. 0:30:20.250 --> 0:30:22.930 Mr Burgess put out a very important statement on Friday, 0:30:23.310 --> 0:30:25.110 might have got perhaps a little bit missed in the 0:30:25.130 --> 0:30:29.250 9-11 reminiscence. He advises that ASIO and its partners have 0:30:29.270 --> 0:30:34.330 fought 33 major attacks since 2014. However, he also says 0:30:34.770 --> 0:30:36.370 that they're working against. 0:30:38.070 --> 0:30:38.530 Activities. 0:30:39.220 --> 0:30:41.760 and intervening before the planning reaches what he calls an 0:30:41.820 --> 0:30:44.440 advanced stage. So in other words, they're trapping some earlier, 0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:48.160 16 of those since Bondi, which when you think about 0:30:48.180 --> 0:30:51.420 it is extraordinary because it's nine months on, 16 over 0:30:51.460 --> 0:30:53.320 nine months is almost going at two a month. 0:30:54.980 --> 0:30:55.100 Right. 0:30:55.120 --> 0:31:00.000 When I spoke to a lot of experts, 16 would-be attacks, 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:04.180 certainly plots, since Bondi is about the biggest set of 0:31:04.220 --> 0:31:06.380 numbers we've had in this country. So that tells you 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:10.560 things are pretty... vulnerable out there in the community. After 0:31:10.580 --> 0:31:12.940 the break, a stark warning that life as we know 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.530 it could be transformed beyond recognition. Some say human life 0:31:16.590 --> 0:31:20.850 might even become extinct. This is AI after the break. 0:31:26.350 --> 0:31:28.150 We'll go back coming up, a win for a parenting 0:31:28.310 --> 0:31:31.430 advocate after a tribunal ordered a transgender woman, so a 0:31:31.730 --> 0:31:36.110 biological man, who used drugs to induce lactation to reveal 0:31:36.170 --> 0:31:38.590 exactly what was used and what was fed to the 0:31:38.890 --> 0:31:42.370 infant in a hotly contested court action. I'll get you 0:31:42.390 --> 0:31:44.840 that update in a moment. But now to growing warnings 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:48.470 that artificial intelligence is developing too fast and it's putting 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.900 human life at risk as a result. That's the contention 0:31:51.940 --> 0:31:55.960 of former Anthropic employee Jacob Coxon who resigned over the 0:31:55.980 --> 0:31:59.760 weekend posting on X that people building AI, he said, 0:31:59.920 --> 0:32:02.830 earnestly believe it could kill us all by the end 0:32:02.850 --> 0:32:06.710 of the decade. These concerns are not new. They come 0:32:06.730 --> 0:32:09.130 from the likes of the late physicist Stephen Hawking and 0:32:09.770 --> 0:32:14.020 other Nobel laureates, including the godfather of AI, Geoffrey Hinton. 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:18.040 And now the heads of Anthropic and OpenAI are all 0:32:18.100 --> 0:32:21.100 calling for AI development to slow down. 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:26.200 But there is a greater danger from artificial intelligence if 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:27.100 we allow. 0:32:26.860 --> 0:32:28.680 It to become self-designing. 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:32.650 For then it can improve itself rapidly and we may 0:32:32.710 --> 0:32:33.610 lose control. 0:32:33.870 --> 0:32:36.730 In the near future, AI may be used to create 0:32:36.770 --> 0:32:41.090 terrible new viruses and horrendous lethal weapons that decide by 0:32:41.130 --> 0:32:44.370 themselves who to kill or maim. I assume you are 0:32:44.410 --> 0:32:49.320 saying literally that you believe that AI could kill us 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:50.840 all by the end of the decade. 0:32:50.860 --> 0:32:53.260 Uh, it Sounds like something that's not real, but I 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:55.800 think it is frighteningly real and it's easiest to understand 0:32:55.840 --> 0:32:57.719 it if you think about real things that happened two 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:02.860 months ago. So two months ago, OpenAI agents, AIs, hacked 0:33:02.900 --> 0:33:06.010 into third-party infrastructure entirely at their own accord. 0:33:06.130 --> 0:33:08.470 If we take the right paths, then the chance of 0:33:08.510 --> 0:33:09.870 something going wrong is very low. 0:33:10.410 --> 0:33:12.670 If we take the wrong paths, then the chance of. 0:33:12.650 --> 0:33:15.790 Something going wrong could be even higher than that. I 0:33:15.810 --> 0:33:18.710 think it is unacceptable to be taking like a 10% 0:33:18.710 --> 0:33:21.060 chance of killing everybody by the end of the decade, obviously. 0:33:22.860 --> 0:33:24.800 All right, scaremongering are real. 0:33:25.460 --> 0:33:29.140 Joining me now, University of New South Wales AI Institute Chief, 0:33:29.580 --> 0:33:33.920 Professor Toby Walsh. Well, Toby, we have talked about this, 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.340 you and I, a couple of times now. We've got 0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:39.240 all those warnings I've played for people, obviously that resignation, 0:33:39.270 --> 0:33:41.390 I think that kicked off a debate in the. 0:33:41.350 --> 0:33:44.870 Last few days. What's your reaction to the events of 0:33:44.910 --> 0:33:45.390 last week? 0:33:47.390 --> 0:33:49.130 Well, I think we need to be a bit cautious. 0:33:49.350 --> 0:33:51.330 Killing all people, I think, is a very high bar. 0:33:52.090 --> 0:33:54.230 I don't think that's very likely. It's a bit fantastical. 0:33:54.530 --> 0:33:57.210 But killing some people, we certainly are. We have AI 0:33:57.250 --> 0:34:01.540 that develops new viruses. We've got AI that can control 0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:02.910 autonomous drones. 0:34:03.130 --> 0:34:04.560 We've seen all of that happening. 0:34:04.950 --> 0:34:10.480 AI is certainly improving remarkably in its capabilities. What's happening 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:13.279 at the moment is that we've got swarms of AI 0:34:13.320 --> 0:34:15.400 to do things. And we discovered just as with humans, 0:34:15.460 --> 0:34:18.800 where lots of people cooperate together, they're much more capable, 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.460 much more powerful. the same as proving true of artificial intelligence. 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:24.400 So the tools we've got now are much more capable. 0:34:24.420 --> 0:34:26.700 I don't think they're going to kill all of humanity, 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:28.200 but they certainly could kill a few people if we're 0:34:28.219 --> 0:34:28.640 not careful. 0:34:28.660 --> 0:34:30.719 Okay. 0:34:30.739 --> 0:34:33.620 Well, we're careful if we've got guardrails. I mean, you 0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:37.010 can see very much with social media. We let social 0:34:37.050 --> 0:34:40.530 media run right. No one wanted to constrain social media. 0:34:41.070 --> 0:34:43.910 And now there's this retrofitting, particularly in relation to children, 0:34:43.930 --> 0:34:48.069 about social a level of protection. We're having all these 0:34:48.130 --> 0:34:51.610 debates about data centres, how to power AI, but I 0:34:51.660 --> 0:34:53.900 can't see the debates we should be having around the 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:58.040 policy guard rails for the use and the implementation of AI. 0:34:58.080 --> 0:34:59.220 So why is that not happening? 0:35:00.620 --> 0:35:03.180 We should be having it. I mean, it's rare to 0:35:03.219 --> 0:35:07.319 see Elon Musk, Dario Modi and Sam Altman, the leaders 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.000 of the big AI companies, agreeing on anything. They hate 0:35:11.060 --> 0:35:13.489 each other. So when they do agree that they would 0:35:13.530 --> 0:35:15.430 like guardrails, I think we should be talking about, well, 0:35:15.810 --> 0:35:18.290 why don't we have guardrails? There's absolutely nothing stopping us 0:35:18.310 --> 0:35:20.730 doing it. And as you point out, let's not repeat 0:35:20.750 --> 0:35:22.950 the mistakes of social media. Let's get on the front 0:35:22.969 --> 0:35:25.570 foot with this one and think about some of the harms, 0:35:25.610 --> 0:35:29.140 the entirely foreseeable harms that are going to be impacting us. 0:35:29.180 --> 0:35:30.799 Let's make sure we put some protections in. So we 0:35:30.820 --> 0:35:34.980 get all the benefits, the new drugs, the increase in productivity, 0:35:35.020 --> 0:35:37.540 but we also try and avoid some of the downsides 0:35:37.620 --> 0:35:37.959 as well. 0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:42.860 OK, if we don't have guardrails and the worst does happen, 0:35:43.020 --> 0:35:47.719 I mean, Australians are human beings. Are we going to 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:49.820 basically be the grunt for machines? 0:35:49.860 --> 0:35:50.609 Is that where we're headed? 0:35:51.930 --> 0:35:54.710 I'm actually much more concerned about the more insidious impacts 0:35:54.790 --> 0:35:56.450 it has. Just as with social media, it was the 0:35:56.469 --> 0:35:59.610 more insidious impacts it had. It was the impacts on teens' 0:35:59.750 --> 0:36:04.629 anxiety levels, on especially young girls' body image. Those more 0:36:04.670 --> 0:36:08.270 insidious impacts, I suspect, will also impact quite critical for 0:36:08.330 --> 0:36:10.570 art of intelligence as we outsource more of our thinking. 0:36:10.910 --> 0:36:12.710 You know, I joke that the machines have become smarter 0:36:12.750 --> 0:36:14.989 than us, not because the machines become any smarter, but 0:36:15.010 --> 0:36:17.009 because we dumb ourselves down. The impact it's going to 0:36:17.030 --> 0:36:21.640 have on our relationships with each other. 200,000 teenagers in 0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:26.160 Australia have had an AI boyfriend or an AI girlfriend. Again, 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:28.780 I worry, what's that going to do to our ability 0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:30.680 to have relationships with other humans? 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:36.510 Yeah, Toby, I worry about, though, rogue nation states and rogue, say, 0:36:36.550 --> 0:36:39.750 terror groups. At the moment, we've got ahead of the 0:36:39.790 --> 0:36:43.620 risk of nuclear weapons in Iran because we've held back scientists, 0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:45.720 we've had testing regimes with the UN. 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:47.779 Obviously, now there's been bobbing. 0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:51.259 Raids on installations deep in the ground. But if they 0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:53.420 don't rely on human beings and the big brains of 0:36:53.460 --> 0:36:56.549 scientists to end up in Tehran to build the nuclear weapons, 0:36:56.989 --> 0:37:00.430 if they get access via that information via an AI 0:37:00.489 --> 0:37:03.990 machine or a series of machines, isn't that the real worry? 0:37:04.010 --> 0:37:06.930 I mean, if it's in the hands of of nation 0:37:06.989 --> 0:37:10.100 states who agree to international rules, that's one thing. But 0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:14.860 China going rogue, Russia, Iran, North Korea, or a terror 0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:19.860 actor like ISIS or al-Qaeda or something, that's what concerns me. 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:23.460 You're right to be concerned about that. In fact, the 0:37:23.500 --> 0:37:26.799 most worrying news that broke last week for me was 0:37:26.860 --> 0:37:30.250 a report from Anthropic where they had actually identified some 0:37:30.370 --> 0:37:34.750 people in Iran trying to do some bioweapons research using 0:37:34.790 --> 0:37:38.670 their AI tool. They identified some Russian hackers trying to 0:37:38.710 --> 0:37:42.210 build some swarms of autonomous drones using their AI tools. 0:37:42.250 --> 0:37:45.089 So those are the things. We're putting those capabilities into 0:37:45.130 --> 0:37:49.530 the hands of everyone and anyone. We really need more oversight, 0:37:49.570 --> 0:37:51.330 more guardrails to prevent that happening. 0:37:52.510 --> 0:37:55.130 Okay. Well, you know more about this than virtually anyone 0:37:55.150 --> 0:37:57.910 in Australia. Are you at the table with the Prime 0:37:57.930 --> 0:38:02.740 Minister and all the policymakers in Canberra to make sure 0:38:02.780 --> 0:38:03.890 we get this right? 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:07.460 Well, I was at the table. There was an advisory 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:10.540 committee the government had, but they disbanded us. They decided 0:38:10.580 --> 0:38:13.100 they were going to dispense with our advice and they 0:38:13.120 --> 0:38:15.440 were only going to listen to the lobbying voices of 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:18.000 big tech. So, yes, that is, again, somewhat worrying that 0:38:18.420 --> 0:38:21.040 people like myself who were offering them advice in an 0:38:21.400 --> 0:38:26.080 AI advisory expert committee have been disbanded. So, yeah, I 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:28.140 would love them to be taking more advice from people 0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:28.600 like myself. 0:38:30.300 --> 0:38:30.480 All right. 0:38:30.500 --> 0:38:31.719 Well, that's why I've got you on the show just 0:38:31.739 --> 0:38:34.259 to make a point, Toby, that you need to be. 0:38:34.219 --> 0:38:34.660 In the room. 0:38:35.100 --> 0:38:37.580 Otherwise, we're in trouble longer term. Thank you for joining 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:40.939 me again tonight. Professor Toby Walsh there, as you know, 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:42.259 knows exactly what he's talking about. 0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:43.419 All right, quick break after the break. 0:38:43.800 --> 0:38:47.259 A tribunal orders a biological man who induced lactation to 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:51.370 reveal exactly what was fed to the infant. And what 0:38:51.390 --> 0:38:54.290 does this ruling mean for protecting vulnerable infants and children 0:38:54.310 --> 0:39:02.420 amid the whole transgender debate? We'll go back coming up 0:39:02.460 --> 0:39:05.620 more on the One Nation plan to target temporary visa holders, 0:39:05.980 --> 0:39:09.040 crack down on international students and certainly put a big 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:12.299 stake in the ground in the migration debate. We'll get 0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:14.520 to that in a moment. But now this is complex, 0:39:14.540 --> 0:39:16.860 so I want you to stay with me, right? The 0:39:16.930 --> 0:39:21.290 Queensland Civil and Administrative Appeals Tribunal has last week overturned 0:39:21.330 --> 0:39:25.950 an earlier ruling that prevented former breastfeeding counsellor Jasmine Sussex 0:39:26.510 --> 0:39:29.870 from seeking the medical specifics around a claim by a 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:35.620 biological man that he induced lactation as a transgender woman 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:40.970 to then feed a newborn infant. Originally blocked from access 0:39:41.010 --> 0:39:44.170 to this information for use in the court, the appeal 0:39:44.210 --> 0:39:48.410 judges found that the medical information was relevant. And so 0:39:48.430 --> 0:39:52.790 the courts now allow Jasmine Sussex to obtain evidence about 0:39:52.830 --> 0:39:57.160 the drugs that were used, how lactation was induced, and 0:39:57.200 --> 0:40:01.280 the composition and source of the fluid that was produced. 0:40:01.900 --> 0:40:04.980 So finally, a win of sorts and an assurance that 0:40:05.020 --> 0:40:08.960 allows the medical evidence to be properly tested as the 0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:11.460 case proceeds. I'm pleased to say that the woman in 0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:15.380 the middle of all of this, parenting advocate Jasmine Sussex, 0:40:15.700 --> 0:40:18.259 joins me now in the Melbourne studio. I hope I've 0:40:18.860 --> 0:40:21.040 got to step my way through that so people understand. 0:40:21.060 --> 0:40:24.660 I think some people saw this report and thought, hallelujah, 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:28.509 you've won your case. You haven't, but this is an 0:40:28.570 --> 0:40:32.870 important win in you defending the allegation, isn't it? 0:40:33.190 --> 0:40:34.090 Yeah, absolutely. 0:40:34.270 --> 0:40:37.650 I do consider it a win, even though it's, you know, 0:40:37.790 --> 0:40:39.750 a step along the way and we've still got to 0:40:39.790 --> 0:40:42.730 have the final hearing, which is going to be, you know, 0:40:42.810 --> 0:40:46.109 probably February, March next year. by the time we sit 0:40:46.130 --> 0:40:46.810 down and go. 0:40:46.690 --> 0:40:47.250 Through it all. 0:40:47.700 --> 0:40:51.359 But it is a big win for mothers, for babies, 0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:55.560 for lactation science, what we do actually know about how 0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:59.840 breastfeeding works in the maternal body. And I think also, 0:40:59.860 --> 0:41:04.100 you know, more broadly than that, that vilification laws do 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:08.200 still need to, cases need to look at evidence, you know. 0:41:08.980 --> 0:41:14.790 Obviously people's feelings are important, but evidence is important too. And, 0:41:14.810 --> 0:41:17.950 I mean, you've known me for a few years now, Peter, 0:41:18.010 --> 0:41:20.509 so I don't think anyone would say that I'm not 0:41:20.590 --> 0:41:25.340 genuine in my, you know, commitment to mothers and babies 0:41:25.590 --> 0:41:29.580 and the reason that I'm expressing concerns about you know, 0:41:29.900 --> 0:41:34.670 male lactation are genuine and they're in the public interest. 0:41:34.750 --> 0:41:37.070 Yeah, and I think we go back to the starting 0:41:37.530 --> 0:41:41.450 principle here. This was a tiny little baby, a newborn infant. 0:41:42.130 --> 0:41:45.410 You're a lactation specialist and you wanted to make sure 0:41:45.469 --> 0:41:50.470 or be confident that whatever the child was drinking, it's 0:41:50.489 --> 0:41:53.200 their sole source of nutrition, was safe. 0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:57.420 Yeah absolutely and I mean when I first found out 0:41:57.580 --> 0:42:01.520 about this case I already knew about the the kind 0:42:01.580 --> 0:42:07.140 of interest that some people with a gender identity had 0:42:07.400 --> 0:42:13.239 in trying to lactate so I didn't start from understanding 0:42:13.300 --> 0:42:16.370 about this case you know in my understanding of the 0:42:16.450 --> 0:42:20.830 issue and It was very clear from very early on 0:42:21.130 --> 0:42:26.489 that it wasn't a successful induced lactation and that, you know, 0:42:26.530 --> 0:42:31.390 thankfully the mother of the baby was also breastfeeding. And 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:35.200 it's clear that the mother made a decision, perhaps with 0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:39.920 the other parent, to stop breastfeeding because there were a 0:42:39.940 --> 0:42:43.890 range of complications. So, you know, I do know a 0:42:43.950 --> 0:42:48.170 lot already about what happened and what in this particular 0:42:48.250 --> 0:42:50.450 instance as well. And so we just need to be 0:42:50.489 --> 0:42:55.009 able to dispassionately look at what actually happened and obviously 0:42:55.050 --> 0:42:57.900 if that's in the best interests of babies. 0:42:58.140 --> 0:43:01.379 I still can't believe we're even having this conversation right 0:43:01.420 --> 0:43:06.239 now that your concern about an infant has landed you 0:43:06.300 --> 0:43:07.719 in a court case. And I think we've been talking 0:43:07.739 --> 0:43:09.660 about this court case for four or five years now. 0:43:10.660 --> 0:43:13.520 It has been going on. The issue's been four or 0:43:13.580 --> 0:43:17.540 five years and the the complaint to the Queensland Human 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:22.600 Rights Commission was in 2023. So yes. A long time. Yeah, 0:43:22.739 --> 0:43:24.799 it is a long time. I will be glad to 0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:27.080 get back to my normal life at some stage. 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:28.500 And I want to mention the people who have been 0:43:28.540 --> 0:43:30.640 supporting you, the Human. 0:43:30.510 --> 0:43:32.710 Rights Law Alliance. 0:43:32.969 --> 0:43:33.149 Yeah. 0:43:33.530 --> 0:43:36.710 If you didn't have them in your corner, you wouldn't 0:43:36.730 --> 0:43:37.650 be able to fight this, would you? 0:43:37.930 --> 0:43:39.509 No, absolutely not. 0:43:39.710 --> 0:43:45.110 And And they've engaged an excellent barrister, Tony Morris, as well, 0:43:45.330 --> 0:43:50.870 and he's been incredible. And, yeah, without both of them 0:43:51.230 --> 0:43:55.630 I would have had to have apologised, probably made, you know, 0:43:55.690 --> 0:43:58.270 who knows what I would have had to have done 0:43:58.530 --> 0:43:59.630 to make it go away. 0:44:00.330 --> 0:44:02.610 And then that, as we know, becomes a precedent. And 0:44:02.630 --> 0:44:05.550 just in that vein, you know, that becomes the template 0:44:05.590 --> 0:44:08.970 for every other breastfeeding parental expert. 0:44:08.989 --> 0:44:09.750 Yeah. 0:44:10.420 --> 0:44:12.279 And we can see very much with the issue of 0:44:12.860 --> 0:44:15.260 a very sad decision, I think it was on Friday, 0:44:15.300 --> 0:44:17.940 certainly Thursday or Friday, Friday, I think, in relation to 0:44:17.980 --> 0:44:22.280 Sel Grover when the High Court denied appeal, leave, sorry, 0:44:22.410 --> 0:44:25.340 for her to appeal the decision in the Tickle versus 0:44:25.430 --> 0:44:29.950 Giggle case. And the court basically affirmed the findings of 0:44:29.969 --> 0:44:36.270 the Federal Court that biology and sexual biology, sex-based biology. 0:44:36.310 --> 0:44:38.609 And gender are one and the same thing. 0:44:38.710 --> 0:44:42.259 Now, I'm not that old that I have forgotten the 0:44:42.300 --> 0:44:43.900 science I was taught at school. 0:44:44.460 --> 0:44:46.439 They're not the same thing. No, they're not. 0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:53.150 And I mean, it's baffling what's happened with the federal 0:44:53.190 --> 0:44:56.509 court and the high court. And my heart goes out 0:44:56.570 --> 0:44:59.530 to Sal and just want to thank her for everything 0:44:59.590 --> 0:45:02.660 that she's done. And She knows it's not the end 0:45:02.969 --> 0:45:05.530 and that, you know, we will get a common sense 0:45:05.590 --> 0:45:08.969 decision out of the federal court and eventually out of 0:45:09.010 --> 0:45:10.250 the high court in the end. 0:45:10.730 --> 0:45:13.230 Or we'll have an election where this should be front 0:45:13.250 --> 0:45:17.160 and centre, honestly, Jasmine, where the government of the day 0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:20.739 that is there after the election should be forced to 0:45:20.780 --> 0:45:23.380 change the law to recognise what is biological fact. 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:24.840 Yeah, absolutely. 0:45:24.860 --> 0:45:25.779 I'll leave it there. 0:45:25.820 --> 0:45:26.710 We'll keep fighting. 0:45:27.110 --> 0:45:27.509 Thank you. 0:45:27.870 --> 0:45:29.350 We'll keep up to date on it here on Credlin. 0:45:29.950 --> 0:45:31.650 Isn't she fantastic? We love her to death. All right, 0:45:31.670 --> 0:45:32.069 quick break. 0:45:32.270 --> 0:45:36.200 After the break, a panel discussion with James Ashby, Nicole Flint, 0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:38.440 and a very busy couple of days for One Nation. 0:45:38.480 --> 0:45:45.359 We'll get into all of that in a moment. Welcome back. 0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:47.640 Let's get straight into it with my panel. Joining me now, 0:45:47.700 --> 0:45:51.340 former Liberal MP Nicole Flint and One Nation's National Director, 0:45:51.380 --> 0:45:52.470 James Ashby. 0:45:52.989 --> 0:45:53.910 James, I'll start with you. 0:45:53.950 --> 0:45:55.750 I don't know if you saw that interview earlier today 0:45:55.850 --> 0:45:59.270 on News 24 with Mike Pizzullo, but he was pretty 0:45:59.310 --> 0:46:02.350 complimentary about the breadth of your policy work in the 0:46:02.390 --> 0:46:05.830 announcement today in regards to migration. 0:46:06.270 --> 0:46:07.569 I know there's some issues. 0:46:07.290 --> 0:46:10.980 Around bringing it down to a net negative zero, leave 0:46:11.020 --> 0:46:13.980 that to one side. But cracking down on the ability 0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:17.719 of people to migrate visa classes onshore, I've been saying 0:46:17.739 --> 0:46:20.319 this for many months, he thinks this is a great move. 0:46:20.380 --> 0:46:22.920 It goes back to where it was in the Howard era. 0:46:23.739 --> 0:46:26.340 The problem is, though, mate, you guys are just getting 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.980 headwinds from old podcasts. 0:46:29.500 --> 0:46:30.319 What's going on? 0:46:32.380 --> 0:46:34.860 Well, it's proven to be a very good last fortnight 0:46:34.900 --> 0:46:36.299 and I think the rest of this week will be 0:46:36.340 --> 0:46:39.680 very good for One Nation. Both the Coalition and Labor 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:43.100 have used migration as a potency scheme. I know this 0:46:43.180 --> 0:46:45.940 year the federal government alone will clip the ticket to 0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:49.489 the tune of $ 4. 7 billion, that's with a B, billion 0:46:49.530 --> 0:46:53.430 dollars in visa application costs. That's what the federal government 0:46:53.469 --> 0:46:57.989 will make this year and their projected figures through to 0:46:57.989 --> 0:47:01.910 2030 is at $ 7. 1 billion that they'll collect in revenue 0:47:01.989 --> 0:47:06.169 from visa applications. Is there any wonder why migration numbers 0:47:06.210 --> 0:47:09.200 have been so high? We know what the problems are. 0:47:09.340 --> 0:47:12.910 One nation have recognised that. We're saying we won't only 0:47:13.010 --> 0:47:16.810 just fix the problem, we'll ensure that those industries and 0:47:16.850 --> 0:47:20.029 businesses that rely on skilled labour won't be affected, and 0:47:20.070 --> 0:47:23.690 that includes people who utilise the PALM scheme and certainly 0:47:23.730 --> 0:47:27.709 those farm workers. They won't be impacted. But what we'll 0:47:27.730 --> 0:47:30.150 be doing is saying we need more tradies. They're going 0:47:30.170 --> 0:47:33.380 to be a primary focus. We need more healthcare workers. Again, 0:47:33.540 --> 0:47:36.230 another primary focus is And what we'll do is we'll 0:47:36.270 --> 0:47:38.610 make the lives of Australians so much better so that 0:47:38.650 --> 0:47:40.969 they can get into a housing market at a much 0:47:41.050 --> 0:47:45.430 more affordable rate, unlike what the last previous two coalition 0:47:45.489 --> 0:47:48.620 uniparty governments have done. It's not on. We're going to 0:47:48.660 --> 0:47:50.420 fix the problem with One Nation. 0:47:51.700 --> 0:47:51.880 All right. 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:53.859 I'll bring in Nicole Flint there because, as I said, 0:47:53.920 --> 0:47:56.620 good policy, but I think you're talking about yourself too 0:47:56.660 --> 0:47:58.910 much in the last few days for it to cut through, James. 0:47:59.260 --> 0:48:00.430 That's the problem, Nicole. 0:48:01.630 --> 0:48:06.330 Well... Look, unfortunately, we've seen these podcasts pop up and 0:48:06.489 --> 0:48:10.070 statements by Senator Hanson that perhaps she wouldn't be making 0:48:10.110 --> 0:48:12.589 now with all the media attention One Nation's getting, but 0:48:12.630 --> 0:48:16.210 it is completely distracting from whatever policy announcements that they 0:48:16.250 --> 0:48:19.230 may be making. And it's disappointing, Peter, because whether it's 0:48:19.250 --> 0:48:22.840 school curriculum, which we know all... the majority of parents 0:48:22.860 --> 0:48:26.180 want to see cleaned up, whether it is migration and 0:48:26.300 --> 0:48:29.620 getting that under control. These are the issues Aussies genuinely 0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:32.460 care about. So I hope we start seeing a lot 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.879 less distractions from One Nation, because what I do think 0:48:36.140 --> 0:48:40.940 voters are responding to is how honest and transparent they're being. 0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:43.600 And it's really disappointing that we still don't have any 0:48:43.660 --> 0:48:47.300 numbers on migration from Labor and the Libs. 0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:51.110 Yeah, and look, I will say, I do think, James, 0:48:51.570 --> 0:48:53.950 that Andrew Hastie's got a right to get out there 0:48:53.969 --> 0:48:56.810 and defend himself. And I think it's absolutely fair that 0:48:56.830 --> 0:48:59.450 he says what he says, whether you or I agree, 0:48:59.469 --> 0:49:02.580 he can defend himself. I'm a bit disappointed in the Liberals, 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:05.920 because all they've talked about is Andrew Hastie and traitors 0:49:05.980 --> 0:49:09.000 themselves for seven days. I'd love them to have some 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:11.919 policy on the table. I think all of this personality 0:49:11.980 --> 0:49:15.320 politics in at the moment is getting people more and 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:19.510 more angry. We want Canberra focused on the big issues 0:49:19.550 --> 0:49:22.450 on the table, for ordinary mums and dads around this country, 0:49:22.489 --> 0:49:25.590 and I don't feel that's where Canberra is, like the 0:49:25.630 --> 0:49:27.790 digital duty of care. I mean, that's going to get 0:49:27.850 --> 0:49:31.219 ran through the parliament by Labor and the Greens, and 0:49:31.260 --> 0:49:32.600 this terrifies. 0:49:32.060 --> 0:49:32.520 Me, James. 0:49:34.420 --> 0:49:36.979 Yeah, I wish the Liberal Party would put their dirt 0:49:37.060 --> 0:49:39.520 unit towards Labor because they're the real enemy and that's 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:43.540 who I will be focused on. This legislation that the 0:49:43.700 --> 0:49:47.230 Labor and Greens Party are looking to pass together, the 0:49:47.310 --> 0:49:50.390 issue is dangerous. I think it's designed to shut people 0:49:50.410 --> 0:49:51.169 like you and I. 0:49:51.110 --> 0:49:51.730 Down, Peter. 0:49:53.810 --> 0:49:56.049 I won't say it is the Liberal Party dirt unit. 0:49:56.090 --> 0:49:57.069 I can't agree with you on that. 0:49:57.090 --> 0:49:58.890 It could be Labor. It could be the media class. 0:49:59.650 --> 0:50:01.950 Could be Liberals too. I don't know. But let's not 0:50:02.590 --> 0:50:04.410 dump them in it. I'll leave you both. Thank you, Nicole. 0:50:04.430 --> 0:50:07.610 Thank you, James. Apologies for the brevity tonight. That's it 0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:09.780 for me. See you tomorrow night. Here's James McPherson.