1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: She loved my father. I hate what he's done. I 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: hate the pain he's caused so many people. But knowing 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: he's going to hear my boys say these things, I 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: know he'd be listening. I wish you'd understand how hurt 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: I am and how much I wish he'd made different decisions, 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: and how that if he could do all this and 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: still have my love, like it wouldn't have taken much 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: just to be a decent human being, and he'd help 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: me and my kids in his life and we would 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: have worshiped him. She'd just confess and let this will 11 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: be done, and lot it. Let it stop affecting me. 12 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: I was seventeen and this has chased me my entire 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: adult life. It affects my kids, It affects every single 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: aspect of my life. And I knew this podcast would 15 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: happen one day, and I just wish he would give 16 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: Christian Anne the justice and the truth that they deserve. 17 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode thirteen of 18 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is 19 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year 20 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: old who was brutally murdered. Her killer has never been caught. 21 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: This is the first of a two part interview with 22 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: Kevin Stephen Corell's daughter as Now, she has some pretty 23 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: strong beliefs about her father, particularly in relation to historic 24 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: allegations for which she's been found not guilty. Jazz also 25 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: believes her dad murdered Rochelle. These are only Jazz's opinions 26 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: about her dad. She's come to these views through a 27 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: combination of her own interactions with her father and witnessing 28 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: his relationships with other people, including both of his ex wives, 29 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: the first being her mother. This of course, doesn't make 30 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: it proof of Kevin's guilt of any offenses. These are 31 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: only Jazz's opinions, and in fact, you will hear Jazz 32 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: say she doesn't have any evidence that her dad committed 33 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: these crimes, but we think it's important for you to 34 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: hear her story. By the way, Jazz is her nickname 35 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: and for privacy reasons when not using her full name. 36 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: Kevin Carrell strenuously denies any involvement in Michelle's murder. 37 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: And has never been charged. 38 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: He has willingly participated in three records of interview with 39 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: police and provided his DNA to investigators. A coroner presiding 40 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: over Rochelle's inquest made an open finding. 41 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 3: How would you describe your relationship with your father now. 42 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: We've been estranged about four or five years. There's been 43 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: minimal contact between us. There was health concerns where we 44 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: exchanged a few text messages that were civil, and I 45 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: had concerns about him. But yeah, it's you know, I 46 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: think after this his release, I don't think we'll ever 47 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: speak again. And I'm okay with that. I don't. I 48 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: feel like I'm hurting him right now, and it's not 49 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: what I want to do. It's just I feel like 50 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: I have to. I have to help with this because 51 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: it's been twenty four years of them not knowing. And 52 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure my dad would understand. I actually I lost 53 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: my oldest daughter in two thousand and nine under very 54 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: different circumstances. But if there was someone responsible, which I 55 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: wasn't as medical reason, but if there was someone responsible 56 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: and they debated justice for a minute, I would be 57 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: smashing the world up. And it's just it's not okay 58 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: that and Christie are still fighting for justice. I think 59 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: it's so wrong, and I would hope that my dad 60 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: with the grief we experienced in the loss of my daughter, 61 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: would understand that that's not okay for that family to 62 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: still be going through this if someone needs to pay. 63 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: Rochelle died violently, and I can't imagine being in their 64 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: shoes how that must feel. You know, there's no one 65 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: to blame for my daughter's death, but it's so unjust. 66 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: It's so unfair, and to have someone that you know 67 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: cause that horrificing to Rachelle. It's just so wrong that 68 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: they've walked free for twenty four years. 69 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: What's prompted you to speak out now? 70 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: I feel like I have some insight when I hear 71 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: certain things being said about my dad, some very true. 72 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: I think most of the things that have been said 73 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: about him by people who know him, I believe them wholeheartedly. 74 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: The best chance at getting him is for people to 75 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 1: really know who he is, and I think I'm probably 76 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: one of the best people to explain who he really is. 77 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: A few of. 78 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: Those years he was protected in people's belief that wouldn't 79 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: have it in his life if he did this, and 80 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: I feel guilt for that. I also want it known 81 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: that I don't defend him. 82 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: Anymore Before we get into that. Who are you? What 83 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 2: would you like people to know about you? 84 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 3: I don't know. 85 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: I feel like a very boring person Outside of this. 86 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm a mum of five amazing children. I work in 87 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: community services, and I'm very passionate about a lot of things, 88 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: human rights and feminism and yeah, I think my dad, 89 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: being who he is, has shaped a lot of who 90 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: I am. 91 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: How is your dad shaped you? 92 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: I don't think there's anyone who's been more influential who 93 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: I am as a person. I think you can trace 94 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: every single detail about who I am. Every fiber of 95 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: my being comes from him. Whether it was the things 96 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: I didn't like I became staunchly against. For example, my 97 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: daddy is very He's racist and homophobic and things like that, 98 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: so I am staunchly against those things. Being that my 99 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: dad can't seem to tell the truth. It's very important 100 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: to me. Honesty and accountability are probably the biggest things 101 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: for me, and that's how I've raised my children. Accountability 102 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: is so important that you know, I never told my 103 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: kids that Santa was real, or the Easter money was real, 104 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: or anything like that, because I wanted my kids to 105 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: know that they could always believe every single word I 106 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: ever said to them, which is something I've never had 107 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: with my dad. Everything he ever said, good and bad, 108 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: I never knew what was real and what was true. 109 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: Even the good things like him saying he was proud 110 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: of me. I didn't know if that was real. I 111 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: didn't know if his love was real. And I think 112 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: the only way that you can achieve that with your 113 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: kids is to always be honest. So I didn't want 114 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: them to ever think I'm lied about this And yeah, 115 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: so it's it's shaped who I am, especially as a 116 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: parent and the things that are important to me. I 117 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: can't ever undo the harm my dad has caused his 118 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: many victims, But I think because I couldn't speak out 119 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: for so long, this is why it's shaped my life. 120 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: To you, who is Kevin Correll? Do you love him 121 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 3: like a father? 122 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: So many of my friends were so envious of my 123 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: relationship with my dad. Most people who met my dad 124 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: love my dad. 125 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 2: You know he was. 126 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 127 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: I often had a lot of friends saying they wish 128 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: they had a relationship with their father's the way I 129 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: did with mine. Yet underneath I knew that he was 130 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: more start too. I've never been able to reconcile those feelings, 131 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: and I feel a lot of guilt and shane that 132 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: I've contributed it to him having twenty four years of 133 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: good memories he didn't deserve to have. There was a 134 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: long time, For a long time, I tried to have 135 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: hope that he didn't do these things. Deep down, I knew. 136 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: I've always known, not in any way that I have evidence, 137 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: I just I knew he did this, So I knew 138 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: he's done a lot of other things. But there was 139 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: a hope, as his daughter, this is someone who experienced 140 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: his love. There was a hope that it was all 141 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: wrong and everyone had it wrong. 142 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: But I don't know that's that's. 143 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: A fairy tale. 144 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: You said that you'd seen the evil Father is capable 145 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: of Do you have any memories of that? 146 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: I remember him hurting my stepmotherw do you remember that 147 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: my mother had told me that he never hit her. 148 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: I'd witnessed my mum being terrified of him my entire life. 149 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: She was terrified. He's always scared her. He's still scares 150 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: her now. I remember being at a party and there 151 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: was an accusation that she was talking to someone that 152 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: my father wasn't happy about, and we were told to 153 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: get in the car, and as we were in the car, 154 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: I remember that she was banging on the car window 155 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: and she had blood all over her face and she's crying, 156 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: and he got in the car and left her there. 157 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: Outside of that, there was a violent explosions. Ever, I 158 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: sensed people's fear. I also saw a lot of people 159 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: be compliant with his lies. And that's the one thing 160 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: that it wasn't ever taught. He never told me that 161 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: I had to go along with anything. He did the 162 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: same thing to my kids. No one ever said you've 163 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: got to go along with lies, but everybody did. And 164 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: when you see everyone compliant to someone, you know, it's 165 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: natural that we will call out a lie when we 166 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: hear it. But with my dad, everyone falls into line. 167 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: And I don't know how, And I think that's only 168 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: that dynamic is only possible when you're fearful. I can't 169 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: explain how it came to be that dynamic. He wasn't 170 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: controlling in the sense that anyone else would describe controlling. 171 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: But I know when you weren't compliant or you didn't 172 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: act a certain way, he punished you in a way 173 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: that you couldn't speak to me because you just look crazy. 174 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: It was sinister, it was calculated. It maybe long after 175 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: the fact, but there was a passive, aggressive way in 176 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: which you'd be punished for stepping out of line. As 177 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: I said, he never raised his hand, he never raised 178 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: his voice. He's a very calm father, but definitely would 179 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: not describe him as an agro father. He was very calm, 180 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: very loving unless she displeased him. 181 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 3: Tell me about the good times from your childhood. 182 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but the good times are harder 183 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: to talk about than the bad times. I think because 184 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: in this environment, telling people he's evil is easier for me, 185 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: because I want to support Rochelle. Talking about how much 186 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: I love my dad and the good things that most 187 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: people wouldn't know feels horrible, and I've lost the ability 188 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: to feel good about cherish memories I had with my dad. 189 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: He was my dad's probably the funniest man I've ever known, 190 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: and I hate saying that, and I don't want people 191 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: to think he's a good person who deserves to be defended, 192 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: because I defended him for so long, and but he 193 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: so funny. He was so much fun, you know. We 194 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: always joked that he was the fifth Wiggle and he 195 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: was always running around playing games, making up games. He 196 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: spoiled us right, and we went there once a fortnight 197 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: and he had two days and he would f every 198 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: last minute with Funt. I loved going to my dad's 199 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: so I was, you know, daddy's little girl, and some 200 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: of my best childhood memories and with my dad. I 201 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: loved him. I still too. 202 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: That's why this interview must be so difficult for you 203 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 3: to do. 204 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: I think knowing he's going to hear this, you know, 205 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: I've talked about these things with people and the harburst 206 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: so many times throughout my life, and it's got to 207 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: a point where I can be stone cold clinical and 208 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: this happened, and this happened, and this happened. I don't 209 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: think it's fair. I think he got twenty four years 210 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: that he didn't deserve, and I gave them to him. 211 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: You know, my dad's entire life has been me and 212 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: my kids for the last twenty four years. I gave 213 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: him those years. And I feel a lot of guilt shame, 214 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: and I think he's just he's been very lucky and 215 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: it's time to let it go. It breaks me that 216 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: Graham past without without the justice he deserved for Rachelle, 217 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: for everything I could see. 218 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: He was a wonderful father. He loved his daughter. 219 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: And she was taken from him as the cruelest thing imaginable. 220 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: And I just wish my dad would be accountable as 221 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: a father. He's at certain periods in my life. He 222 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: loved me very well, and he loved my children. But 223 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: to me, my father is jacqualine height. He's caused us 224 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: so much pain. 225 00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: How hurtful could he get? 226 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: Uh? He once said it was my fault that my 227 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: daughter died, that I was a negligent mum, and that 228 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: I must have loved it because of the attention I got. 229 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: He Uh, yeah, it was mainly attacking me as a mother. 230 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: I do often say that, you know he was gonna 231 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: go for custody of my kids and take them off me. 232 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, hide from the fact that I have. 233 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: Had a lot of problems over the years, and. 234 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: My kids have gotten through a huge amount of significant trauma. 235 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: I was not by or abusive. I was neglectful because 236 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: some days I couldn't get out of pen and my 237 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: kids suffered because of that. And that's another reason I 238 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: let him in their life, because the same thing he 239 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: provided when I was a child, he was fun. He 240 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: was My children worshiped him. I never relied on my dad, 241 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: but he would step up. He would turn up every 242 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: Friday afternoon and now I'm going to take the kids here, 243 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to 244 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: do that. And I needed that with what was going 245 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: on in my life. Was not in a good way 246 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: in the early years of life, just trying to hurt 247 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: me as much as possible, and he there was nothing 248 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: that was too low for him. And then yeah, it 249 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: was like it was all forgotten. But on those occasions 250 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: that he brought it up, he would like our past fights, 251 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: and he would bring up that, you know, he didn't 252 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: kill Rochelle, and I'd apologized that I had said those things, 253 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: but he never apologized to me for any of that 254 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: and never got a sickle apology. He's never been able 255 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: to be accountable. If I talked to him about my pain, 256 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: it was always, you know, even when I accused him 257 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: of killing Rochelle, it was always when we discuss it later, 258 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: it wasn't denials of doing it. It was that I 259 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: was the horrible person for accusing him, and he always 260 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: turned it around that I was evil and I was horrible, 261 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: and I was cruel. He never acknowledged anything he ever did. 262 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 3: Did he play the victim? 263 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: Always? Always I was cruel, I was horrible. The papers 264 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: were against him, the policeman was after him because see 265 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: you heard his daughter. My dad, whenever backed into a corner, 266 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: was the victim. You know. That's the only time I'd 267 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: see my dad make himself vulnerable. But it was make 268 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: believe it was an act so you would feel sympathy. 269 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: A text message I received probably about two years ago 270 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: where he acknowledged a lot of things he didn't. He 271 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: didn't fully acknowledge it, but he said he was sorry 272 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: for the ways he had let me down, which is 273 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: I never got anything like that in my life from him. 274 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: There was never any acknowledgment of anything. There was no 275 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: apologies for anything until that text message, and it rowed 276 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: me apart to the point I couldn't function for weeks 277 00:19:50,840 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: because I needed it for forty one years. But yeah, 278 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: his cruelty was mostly passive aggressive. I remember he used 279 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: to record my boys and there'd be a bribe in 280 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: it for them and they'd explain, but he would get 281 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: them to record videos saying we don't want to live 282 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: with him, but we want to live with path And 283 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: I knew it was because I stood up to him 284 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: with some racist comment or some whenever he saw my fistyess. 285 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: He hated that. He hated that I'm passionate as me 286 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: because I am as a person when it comes to 287 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: my values, I am very feisty and I stand up. 288 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: I can stand up for other people, just not myself. 289 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: And standing up to him was hard in regards to me. 290 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,239 Speaker 1: But I could stand up to the other things that 291 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: he said and did, and I could see how angry 292 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: he'd get. He'd have a smile on his face and 293 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: he'd be normal. Yeah, that would be my punishment for 294 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: things like that. Or he often barred mouthed me to 295 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: my children. He would encourage them to make racist comments, 296 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: gay joaks, things like that, and challenge at masculinity. When 297 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: they didn't, it was almost a taunting that really toxic. 298 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: You know, to be a man, you must be these things. 299 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's definitely affected my kids. 300 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: From what you've witnessed with your dad. How does he 301 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 3: attract women? 302 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: He's very charming, charismatic, he uses humor, he's like, he's 303 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: very critical of other men. I think my dud views 304 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: or other men as competition. It's very rare that he 305 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: had close relationships with men. There were a few few 306 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: friends he had. You know, he would criticize that. You know, 307 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: men want to go to the pub and drink and 308 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: they don't get up and dance. My dad will get 309 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: up and dance with anyone. He's always the life of 310 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: the party. He's not been a big drinker throughout my life. 311 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: I've seen him drink a handful of times and know 312 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: and only get tipsy drunk maybe once or twice. He 313 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: needs to always be in control. He would use me 314 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: and my children. And when I say use, you know, 315 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: I think some of the love he had for me 316 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: and my kids was entirely genuine. But he knew that 317 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: that attracted people. That he was loving doating father and grandfather, 318 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: and yeah, women I saw them idolize him. Like It 319 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: still blows my mind that my father, though, gets the 320 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: women he gets. They are all not only pure in heart, intelligent, 321 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: loving and kind women. They're all drop dead gorgeous. And 322 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: one look at my father, you go, how and yeah, 323 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: he just wins them over. He lies a lot. I 324 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 1: used to get very annoyed, you know, his friends had 325 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: mentioned stuff like, you know how he bought me a car. 326 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: My dad never bought me a car. I was paying 327 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: it off myself. But he didn't have to lie about 328 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: what he did for me. He could have just told 329 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: them what he did and people would still think he 330 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: was wonderful. But instead he would say that he was 331 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: practically raising the kids, that I wasn't coping, and my 332 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: dad was paying all my bills and he bought me 333 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: a car and doing everything. Now, I understand people like 334 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: to talk themselves up and want people to see them 335 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: as some sort of hero, but I don't know why 336 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: he had to speak about me in such a degrading way. 337 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: If I saw one of my children struggling, I would 338 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: just want to be there and help fix it. My 339 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: dad never, through those times, ever came and such as 340 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: what you need, how do I help, never try to 341 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: get me any help. 342 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 3: He used it for his advantage. You're describing a man 343 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 3: who some might think grooms people. 344 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: Yes, that's one hundred percent grooming, and somehow he grooms 345 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: others to help him. How so he's never told me 346 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to do. But I know I can't 347 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: explain that phenomenon. I don't know how that happens. 348 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: Can you think of an example that might explain it. 349 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: When there was an audience that I knew, we had 350 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: to act like the closest dad and daughter in the world. 351 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: So we might be preparing for a party and he 352 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: barely acknowledges me, and you know, he might have the 353 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: shits with me, and yeah, there was nothing. He wouldn't 354 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: describe us as close at all as then when people arrived, 355 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: he lived his whole life for me. I was the 356 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: most beautiful girl in the room. Introduced me to everyone, 357 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: this is my beautiful daughter, even though he say things 358 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: behind my back that fed into it that my daughter 359 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: has all these problems, but I lift her up. He 360 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: didn't do that for anything else other than the audience 361 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: that were watching, because they think she's got all these problems, 362 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: and look at the way he builds her confidence. And 363 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: I would immediately play into it. I saw partners go 364 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: along with it when he would tell stories. I remember 365 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: one partner who sat there through a story. They had 366 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: gone on a cruise at dinner cruise and he was 367 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: telling us at Christmas about this guy getting belligerent and 368 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: causing a scene. And my dad said, you know, he 369 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: helped kick him off the boat, and my dad got 370 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: in a fight with this guy, and then his partner 371 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: told me when he walked away that there was the 372 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: belligerent guy on the dinner cruise. And all of that 373 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: happened except the part that my dad was involved. He 374 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: didn't get up from the table, but she went along 375 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: with his story that he was telling him that he 376 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: was with her. He was fully aware that she knew 377 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: everything he was saying was a lie. 378 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 3: She was there, but. 379 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: We'd all do it, we'd comply. I started noticing my 380 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: kids do it, and that's when it really hit me, 381 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: because it was okay for it to be normal for me. 382 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: When I saw that one of my sons was punished 383 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: because he was less compliant than the others. He would 384 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: be treated in a very passive, aggressive way. He would 385 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: be punished in weird, sinister ways, in a normal way 386 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: that you would punish a child. It was psychological. It 387 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: was making him feel less than his brothers. It was 388 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: something I could accept for myself, but not for my sons. 389 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 3: What about the sinister lies? How deep do they go? 390 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: He always has a story to justify anything I didn't, 391 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: So I was about twelve, when my parents were sort 392 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: of arguing for custody of me and a so when 393 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: I found out a lot of her family secrets and 394 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: found out about my dad's history, Dad got out in 395 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: front of it and told me himself. He also told 396 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: me some stuff about my mum trying to me against her. 397 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: Thankfully mum had already told me. But as I said, 398 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: never bad moused him and he told me that in 399 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: the eighties he had been accused of a rape. I 400 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: only knew of one rape. And he said that he 401 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: was seeing a girl who was the daughter of a 402 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: police officer and he had cheated on her. And he 403 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: sat there and almost welled up and said, you know, 404 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: I don't want to be that person. I know my 405 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: dad's been unfaithful to every partner. He said, I know that. 406 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: You know that makes me a really bad person. But 407 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: she got angry and her father had me arrested for rape. 408 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: They didn't have the SS, so this was a story. 409 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: I was fed about his rape charge. I also knew 410 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: there was another. I knew there was a case of 411 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: armed robbery because my mum's brother was my father attempted 412 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: to frame my uncle Greg for it. I knew that 413 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: from my mum's family. I'd heard bits and pieces, no 414 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: one went into details with me. I never knew that 415 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: was an attempted rape. When I heard the full version 416 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: of that, that flawed me. I haven't been able to 417 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: turn off anything relating to the podcast. I follow everything. 418 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: I am constantly on Facebook watching everything that he has said, 419 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: and I knew I shouldn't have listened to the podcast before. 420 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: So it was episode five and at the end I 421 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: heard the snippet of two rape victims or the attempted 422 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: rape victim and the punch bowl one. 423 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 4: So the knock at the door, I opened it and 424 00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 4: it was ban instant melaclava. The knife was held up here. 425 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 4: He pushed me back. I was walking down the hall 426 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 4: to reassue him the lounge room and that he pulled 427 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 4: a knife on me. He just came straight at me 428 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 4: and it was just closed hard fists. Proceeded to tell 429 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 4: me that if I didn't do what he said, he 430 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 4: would kill my kids, and I just went down. It 431 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 4: was like I just went smacked down on the bed. 432 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 4: I did what he said and he read me. I 433 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 4: remember thinking, holy shit, I'm going to die. 434 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: And I got to work. I was violently ill. I 435 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: had to leave work, and my son left work as well. 436 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: He wasn't doing well. My mum had told me bits 437 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: and pieces. She knew nothing of it being a police 438 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: officer's daughter or anything like that. I had suspicions that 439 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: it was more than what he said, because I knew 440 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: he was a liar, but I didn't know how how 441 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: many it had happened. But specifically when I heard the 442 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: Gold Coast Model story, when I realized the arm robbery, 443 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: the way he tried to frame my uncle Greg, I 444 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: knew he tried to frame him and he left the 445 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: business card. I'd heard that story so many times, but 446 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: one thing that really really stuck out to me in 447 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: that podcast was the way she described he kept saying 448 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: money for drugs, money for drugs, and it showed me 449 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: how sinister he was. My dad is completely anti drugs. 450 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: He's never touched anything. He views marijuana use as the 451 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: same as heroin use. He thinks it's all disgusting, completely 452 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: anti drug But my uncle was a smoker. My dad 453 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: would have viewed him as disgusting for that reason, and 454 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: my uncle was a lovely man. He's passing. Yeah, it 455 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: made me realize that he went in there, and he 456 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: was so intent on setting up my uncle that he 457 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: made out it was for drugs. And that's how sinistery get. 458 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: And you know, when you go back to the fingers like, 459 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest mistake he made that he 460 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: was telling all of us, not realizing how much that 461 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: was going to backfire on him. But yeah, I think 462 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: he fully thought that his charm would make people not 463 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: suspect him. 464 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 3: Have you heard him bad mouth women in general? 465 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: Yes? Always? 466 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 3: What are the kinds of things he says? 467 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: He usedcore women moms a lot. When I read that 468 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: about the rape in the car that shook me. 469 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 3: She called me names and then I called her a slat. 470 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: I think I called her a male and taser or something. 471 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: It's wordings he would use. But he makes insinuations that 472 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: when women dress a certain way that they're asking for it, 473 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: and you know, those very typical tropes of his generations. Specifically, 474 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: remember every case we'd hear, big cases of sexual assaults 475 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: and things like that, Brittany Higgins, all that sort of stuff, 476 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: he would always blame the women or say they were lying. 477 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: Always he's always on the side of the person who 478 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: didn't matter what evidence was there? They were always innocent. 479 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 3: How does your father view women? 480 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: He has the expectation that they are pure, kind, nurturing, soft, 481 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: and anything outside of that they deserve disrespect. You know, 482 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: as much as my father hated my ex husband when 483 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: he hurt me, he would say things about, you know, 484 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: me being a whore. And that's why he doesn't blame 485 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: my ex husband for doing it. Thinks he did. 486 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 3: Your father would call you a whore? 487 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, there is a certain way that 488 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: he expects women to behave. 489 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 3: And did your mom stand by your father during these 490 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 3: allegations back in the eighties? 491 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: Mom stayed with him. I definitely don't want to speak 492 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: on behalf of my mum, who is definitely not She's 493 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: not supportive of me doing this. She's scared for my safety. 494 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: She blames herself for a lot of what he got 495 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: away with, And all I can really say is that 496 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: she was very fearful of him at that time and 497 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: she did what she needed to do to survive. I 498 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: know my mum believes he did it. He did both 499 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: the rapes. I know she remembers one of the victims 500 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: who showed up at subsequent trials of other victims. She 501 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: remembers her in the court and how much it broke 502 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: my mom to hear her screaming, he's done it before, 503 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: he'll do it again. And my mom did not talk 504 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: about this stuff to me until I started asking questions. 505 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 3: What about Elise? How did he treat Alise? From what you. 506 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: Saw, Elise was very It always felt like she was 507 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: sort of on eggshells and trying to do everything she 508 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: could for my dad. He wasn't He didn't treat her well. 509 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: She's the one that I have this story about the 510 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:46,959 Speaker 1: bloody face, And you know, I didn't see a lot 511 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: of violence like that between them, but I feel like 512 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: the threat was always there. I feel like Elise was 513 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: always scared of that. 514 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 3: I want you to hear how Elise describes some incidents 515 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 3: of verbal abuse and threats allegedly by your father, And 516 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 3: I'm interested to get your insights on those threats to 517 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 3: see if that would be something your father would say. 518 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 5: Yes, he did threaten me. He threatened to if I 519 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 5: ever left him, he would help me down and find me. 520 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 5: He would cut me up in little pieces, bury me 521 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 5: on the beach in individual spots, to cover me in 522 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 5: lime so nobody could smell that there was body parts there. Yeah. 523 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 5: And then there was another time we drove part GIRoA 524 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,479 Speaker 5: beach and I mentioned, as we've driven past, I said, 525 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 5: that's a really nice caravan park on that side. I said, 526 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 5: what a lovely spot to have a caravan park, because 527 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 5: you've just got to walk across the road and there's 528 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 5: seven mile beach there, Like that would be a fun 529 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 5: place to take a family like to go and stay there. 530 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 5: And I said, look at all that bush there, and 531 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 5: he said, yeah, look at all that bush there. He said, 532 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 5: that'd be a good place to bury somebody. Just make 533 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 5: sure you behave yourself. 534 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 3: I must add. 535 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 2: Kevin Correll vehemently denies the allegations of domestic abuse leveled 536 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: against him by his former wife. 537 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 3: Do you believe that's something your father would say? One 538 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 3: hundred percent? 539 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: I never heard threats like that, But I know that 540 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: he's capable of that. I know that's how he's instilled 541 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: a lot of fear and a lot of women. I 542 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: know how terrified my mother is of him and other 543 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: former partners of his. I remember reaching out to one 544 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: in my twenties. 545 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 3: Is this the partner that your father was seeing at 546 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 3: the time of Rochelle's murder. Yes, we're referring to her 547 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 3: as Alice. 548 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: I'd reached out to Alice just because I absolutely adored her, 549 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: and I never knew why they split up and what happened. 550 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: I realized everything with the Rochelle probably played a part. 551 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, I reached out to her at work and 552 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: I could hear terror in her voice, realizing that I 553 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: was contacting her, And she told me she couldn't have 554 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: anything to do with me. And this was one of 555 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: the most beautiful souls I'd ever met, and she was 556 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: terrified purely because I was his daughter, and she thought 557 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: he had put me up to it. She asked me not. 558 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: When I said no, I just wanted to catch up. 559 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: She's please, don't tell your dad who spoke to me. Please, 560 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: you can't contact me again. And I knew something quite 561 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: horrific had happened, didn't know what, and I'd never asked him. Yeah, 562 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: I know a lot of women are terrified of him. 563 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: All the accounts these women speak of are one hundred 564 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: percent tury. He liked to look at women, my dad, 565 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, always turning his neck looking at anything. But 566 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: it was he didn't respect those women. I think my 567 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: dad only respects a woman if she is a good 568 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: wife and serves men, and it's compliant. 569 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 3: How do you cope with all these traumas in your life? 570 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: My kids are, Oh like, I probably get the most 571 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: emotional talking about this. I don't know how with everything 572 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: they've been through that they are. They're the most phenomenal humans. 573 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: Just their sense of humor, their forgiveness. They're the most compassionate, 574 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: beautiful human beings. And outside, I mean, they are more 575 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: than enough. But my work is very significant to me 576 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: as well. 577 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 3: Why is that important to you? I can't do what 578 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 3: he did. 579 00:40:51,280 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 6: I can't, but if I'm doing good, I want my 580 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 6: my DNA. 581 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: To be counterbalancing in some way. And I'm not mother Teresa. 582 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in any way, but you know, 583 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like a martyrup but I 584 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: think that is very It's very significant to me that 585 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: I am always trying to prevent people being cruel and evil. 586 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 3: Did you choose that path because of your childhood? I 587 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 3: think so? 588 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: This is why I think he being his daughter has 589 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: definitely shaped so much, and. 590 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 6: I think I am. 591 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: Forever trying to do something that is more significant than 592 00:41:53,960 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: being his daughter. I've felt worthless most of my life, 593 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: and I think I'm always about to prove that I'm 594 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: not here. No, I don't want to be known as 595 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 1: sister daughter. I want to be known as the person 596 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:15,720 Speaker 1: who helps people. 597 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 3: How much fear did you have to push through to 598 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 3: be able to do this interview with me? 599 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: I think I would have had reason to fear if 600 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: he knew I was doing it and there were you know, 601 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 1: he knew where I lived, and there was an opportunity 602 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 1: for him to get away with it. Yeah, I would 603 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: probably be more fearful. I mean, I've always my dad 604 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: had contempt for me, and I think one of the 605 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: reasons he kept me in my life was because he 606 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: used me as a tool and because the mother of 607 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 1: the grandchildren, who are another source for him. I think 608 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: he hates everything I stand for, because, as I said, 609 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: I've built my personality around not being all the things 610 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: I hate in him. 611 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 7: You've tried to be everything he's not, yes, and it 612 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 7: severely disappoints him. I used to believe, in order to 613 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 7: get my kids, that he could potentially hurt me if 614 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 7: he thought he'd get away with that. I remember a 615 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 7: few times going to his house I'd have to pick 616 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 7: something up or drop something off, and I would either 617 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 7: pretend to be on the phone, or I would be 618 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 7: on the phone to a friend and very loudly out 619 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 7: the front of his house. I've just stopped in at 620 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 7: my dad's I'll call you back in ten minutes. I 621 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 7: just wanted him to know that someone knew where I was. 622 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 7: And I know that probably sounds very dramatic. I can 623 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:52,760 Speaker 7: imagine his face as he hears me say that, But yeah, 624 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 7: I know what he's capable of, and I know the 625 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 7: contempt he had for me, and how damaging I am. 626 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 7: I think I hold up a mirror to my dad 627 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 7: of all the things he hates about himself. I think 628 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 7: my existence pisses him off. I think if I. 629 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: For some reason walked into his house and no one 630 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: was there, yeah, he probably hurt me. I don't think 631 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: he's going to seek me out. I don't think he'd 632 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: show up where he thinks my sons could be. I 633 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: don't think he's a danger to me, but I understand 634 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: that most of my loved ones are terrified of me 635 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: doing this today. 636 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 3: Are you doing this for any payback for your father? 637 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 8: Oh? 638 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:40,760 Speaker 1: God, no, No, I think the hardest thing about doing 639 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: this is that knowing my dad is going to hear 640 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: this and how much it would probably hurt him. I 641 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: don't want to hurt my dad. I don't know why 642 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: it's important for me to know that he knows I 643 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: love you. I can't have him her anymore. I can't, 644 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: but I do love him and I'm grateful for everything 645 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: he ever did for me and my kid's fam. 646 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 3: In a previous episode, you heard Kevin Carrell's close friend 647 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 3: and former partner, who we've called Marian, share her beliefs 648 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 3: about why Jazz is a strange from her father and 649 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 3: would speak out publicly against him. 650 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 8: All I can say is I just with all the 651 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 8: the things that his daughter has said, I know he 652 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 8: is very self serving. She is into martyrdom. She loves 653 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,879 Speaker 8: people saying oh you okay, everything all right? Sorry you're 654 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,839 Speaker 8: going through this. She hears attention seeking and don't get 655 00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 8: me wrong, I do love the girl, but yeah, I 656 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 8: just she would never have anything positive to say, and 657 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 8: I've only got things that are positive to say about Kevin. 658 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 3: Do you know why she's such a staunch supporter of 659 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 3: your father? Can you give us some insights? 660 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: I thought it had a lot to do with a 661 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: lack of confidence, feeling isolated. But that attack on me 662 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: when she has always always expressed to me that I'm 663 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: a daughter to her, and I felt like I was 664 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: hurting her that I have not been in contact with her. 665 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: I would never hurt that woman. I don't know what 666 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: he has said to make vicious comments like that about me. 667 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: It might possibly be that I am not involved in 668 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: her life anymore, but I've had nothing but love for 669 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,359 Speaker 1: her my whole life, as long as I've known her. 670 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm just blown up way this is psychological dummy he 671 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: has done. And these are the things he says about me. 672 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: To hear her say it, I honestly thought she was 673 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: someone who would always be in my corner. That hurts. 674 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,439 Speaker 1: I'm not an attention seeker. This is the last thing 675 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,720 Speaker 1: I want. I don't. I wish I had a normal, 676 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:32,479 Speaker 1: fucking dad. 677 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 3: They didn't have me. 678 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 6: The fucking news. 679 00:47:37,560 --> 00:48:00,800 Speaker 3: Station coming soon on, Dear Rochelle. 680 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: I think he wanted to kill her, possibly as punishment 681 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: for rejecting him. My personal belief is that Rachelle was 682 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: aware he was defrauding Camden. There were quite a few 683 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 1: years that I know I protected him he had said 684 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 1: that Rachelle's fingers were cut off because she was dealing 685 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 1: drugs for bikes. I remember just feeling like the blood 686 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: had draped from my face the time he sat on 687 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: my lounge and said I've never said that. He'd said 688 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: it to me multiple times. Exposing my dad in any 689 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,799 Speaker 1: way is what we'll set him off. 690 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 2: Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia. 691 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 2: If you want to be one of the first to 692 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 2: find out what happens next. 693 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 3: Go to Dear Rochelle dot com dot au. 694 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,800 Speaker 2: That's where eligible digital news Called Australia subscribers get early 695 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 2: access to podcast episodes, breaking news in our live investigation 696 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,800 Speaker 2: and you will also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence, feature 697 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 2: articles and more. 698 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 3: That's de roschelle dot com dot you. 699 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,759 Speaker 2: If you have any tips or confidential information to share 700 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,360 Speaker 2: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to De 701 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 2: Rochelle at news dot com dot au. Our supervising producer 702 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 2: and audio editor is Rehys Gunter Rachel Fountain, his executive 703 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 2: producer and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake. 704 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 2: Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video editors are Jillian McNally, 705 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 2: Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff dr 706 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 2: Mannan and Christy Miller. Senior camera operators are Daniel Andrews 707 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 2: and Oscar Vierra. Were sound designed by Martin Perolta and 708 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 2: Travis Evans. Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lenny Panerz, 709 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 2: Show Burreo Fayguld, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte carp, 710 00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 2: Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to The Daily Teller, 711 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 2: Graph editor Ben English and Dear Rochelle would not be 712 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 2: possible without the help and unwavering support of Christi and 713 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,440 Speaker 2: Anne Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rochelle's friends. This 714 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,800 Speaker 2: podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson