1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche production. 2 00:00:10,641 --> 00:00:14,641 Speaker 2: Every year in Australia, over fifty thousand missing persons reports 3 00:00:14,761 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: are submitted to police. A long term missing person is 4 00:00:18,721 --> 00:00:22,921 Speaker 2: someone that's been missing for three months. In Australia right now, 5 00:00:23,321 --> 00:00:25,601 Speaker 2: there are over two thousand and seven hundred of them. 6 00:00:26,561 --> 00:00:30,521 Speaker 2: Zach Barnes has now been missing for almost ten years. 7 00:00:31,881 --> 00:00:35,161 Speaker 1: This is Julie. Julie. Julie is a very good friend. 8 00:00:35,281 --> 00:00:40,361 Speaker 1: Her son Cam and Zach were best mates. And Julie's 9 00:00:40,361 --> 00:00:45,001 Speaker 1: been on this journey along with me, you know, every search, 10 00:00:45,561 --> 00:00:51,481 Speaker 1: every event for me, when Zack's friends still turn up 11 00:00:53,081 --> 00:00:56,161 Speaker 1: at my door just to drop in and say, hey, Cas, 12 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: how you going. And each time they do that, they 13 00:00:59,561 --> 00:01:01,801 Speaker 1: bring a little bit of Zach with them, like we'll 14 00:01:01,801 --> 00:01:04,761 Speaker 1: have a conversation about some stupid he died or something 15 00:01:04,801 --> 00:01:10,041 Speaker 1: they you know, and it shows me what his friends 16 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:13,401 Speaker 1: thought of him. These people are still remembering, you know, 17 00:01:14,081 --> 00:01:17,481 Speaker 1: so he obviously had an impact lots of people. 18 00:01:17,881 --> 00:01:20,481 Speaker 3: Some of Zach's maze. I think it's just the most beautiful, 19 00:01:20,481 --> 00:01:22,241 Speaker 3: bloody humans I've ever met, you know what I mean? 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: Coming around and seeing my mum may message may you 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,241 Speaker 3: know what I mean? Like I see every day it's 22 00:01:28,241 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: spend three years, they still message we gon, hey, how's 23 00:01:30,721 --> 00:01:34,321 Speaker 3: he work done? So I think they're both aspects and friends. 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,641 Speaker 3: The only thing to get you through this sort of thing, 25 00:01:37,681 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: you know, the family it's given. But it's really awesome 26 00:01:41,401 --> 00:01:44,841 Speaker 3: to say, it's real hard as well, especially when the 27 00:01:44,961 --> 00:01:48,361 Speaker 3: last birthday has been like Connor Mollstone birthdays. You know, 28 00:01:48,801 --> 00:01:51,321 Speaker 3: I've been looking forward for years for him to hit. 29 00:02:03,441 --> 00:02:06,921 Speaker 3: So it's it's awesome and it's all our kicking and 30 00:02:07,001 --> 00:02:07,841 Speaker 3: not at the same time. 31 00:02:07,921 --> 00:02:08,481 Speaker 4: In Lane. 32 00:02:14,841 --> 00:02:18,441 Speaker 1: Twice a year we lose it as a family. May 33 00:02:18,561 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: is when Zach's birthday is and November is when he 34 00:02:21,881 --> 00:02:24,481 Speaker 1: went missing, so we just sort of recover from one 35 00:02:24,881 --> 00:02:27,201 Speaker 1: and then we get smashed. 36 00:02:32,321 --> 00:02:34,041 Speaker 2: On Zach's birthday. What do you do? 37 00:02:35,121 --> 00:02:42,481 Speaker 1: So it's a day that obviously it's quite hard for us, 38 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:48,401 Speaker 1: but it's an opportunity to create exposure again and hope 39 00:02:48,401 --> 00:02:53,281 Speaker 1: for more information to come through. The first year, we 40 00:02:53,361 --> 00:02:57,761 Speaker 1: had three hundred people turn up, and that was certainly 41 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,001 Speaker 1: an eye opener because we thought that we were the 42 00:03:01,041 --> 00:03:05,521 Speaker 1: only ones suffering. It was our kid and our family 43 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:11,641 Speaker 1: and our problem, and we sort of thought that if 44 00:03:11,641 --> 00:03:15,321 Speaker 1: we have this birthday party that Zach wasn't at if 45 00:03:15,321 --> 00:03:19,921 Speaker 1: he or the photos and with that all went on Facebook, 46 00:03:19,921 --> 00:03:22,561 Speaker 1: and if Zach was out there, he'd go, oh, my friends, 47 00:03:22,601 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: miss me, I've got to go home, and he would 48 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,081 Speaker 1: know that it would be safe, or that if we 49 00:03:29,121 --> 00:03:33,721 Speaker 1: didn't get a reaction, something's wrong. But when we were 50 00:03:33,721 --> 00:03:36,361 Speaker 1: sort of just going through the process of this birthday 51 00:03:36,961 --> 00:03:41,801 Speaker 1: and Cody, you'll seat on a video on Facebook, he 52 00:03:42,001 --> 00:03:45,281 Speaker 1: catch the whole room and Zach's personality. 53 00:03:45,521 --> 00:03:46,521 Speaker 2: This is all he'd. 54 00:03:46,361 --> 00:03:50,481 Speaker 3: Ever wanted for a birthday from him there. How are 55 00:03:50,481 --> 00:03:52,761 Speaker 3: we ship thank you to everyone in this fucking. 56 00:03:52,481 --> 00:04:01,281 Speaker 1: Room, But he'd be fucking threads right now. 57 00:04:03,281 --> 00:04:07,041 Speaker 3: But I just really want to really just you would 58 00:04:07,081 --> 00:04:09,961 Speaker 3: have made that everything, and thank you so much. 59 00:04:13,721 --> 00:04:18,281 Speaker 1: The room broke down. And when I thought that we 60 00:04:18,281 --> 00:04:26,041 Speaker 1: were the only ones hurting the kids, the youth, like 61 00:04:26,121 --> 00:04:31,241 Speaker 1: there was hundreds of them there, to see them hugging 62 00:04:31,281 --> 00:04:36,121 Speaker 1: each other and crying about Zach. It didn't impact us, 63 00:04:36,361 --> 00:04:41,361 Speaker 1: only it impacted the community, and it showed there was 64 00:04:41,401 --> 00:04:44,921 Speaker 1: a real need, Like no one was counseling these kids, 65 00:04:46,241 --> 00:04:49,641 Speaker 1: No one's helping them, you know, like they're all eighteen, 66 00:04:49,761 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: they're all nineteen, they're all in this stage like you 67 00:04:54,001 --> 00:04:56,441 Speaker 1: know who's going to help them, like, who helps them 68 00:04:56,481 --> 00:05:00,801 Speaker 1: through their grief? And you know, and I was the 69 00:05:00,841 --> 00:05:03,481 Speaker 1: strong one that night. I'm hugging all these kids and 70 00:05:04,201 --> 00:05:06,521 Speaker 1: being that mum and and it's okay, you know, drop 71 00:05:06,561 --> 00:05:11,281 Speaker 1: in and see me. But they offloaded. And even with Mick. 72 00:05:12,241 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: Mick was really against having this birthday. He thought it 73 00:05:15,521 --> 00:05:17,881 Speaker 1: was such a silly idea. Why would I do something. 74 00:05:18,961 --> 00:05:25,001 Speaker 1: And for all of Zack's friends and the community, total 75 00:05:25,081 --> 00:05:29,001 Speaker 1: strangers to acknowledge him and say, mate, we're thinking about 76 00:05:29,081 --> 00:05:32,721 Speaker 1: you and made him feel part of it. And for 77 00:05:32,761 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: the first time him and my eldest son Jared broke 78 00:05:37,641 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: down and hugged each other and cried and let that out. 79 00:05:41,721 --> 00:05:43,921 Speaker 1: And I was like, this is real. We're really going 80 00:05:43,961 --> 00:05:47,481 Speaker 1: through this. So I just thought, from what I've seen there, 81 00:05:47,841 --> 00:05:50,201 Speaker 1: not only to try and continue to help to find Zach, 82 00:05:50,361 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: but there's got to be another way we can help 83 00:05:52,921 --> 00:05:58,441 Speaker 1: the kids in the meantime, and you know, raise awareness 84 00:05:58,481 --> 00:06:02,681 Speaker 1: of mental health with the kids as well. And then 85 00:06:03,281 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: the second birthday we did a similar event. It was 86 00:06:05,921 --> 00:06:09,041 Speaker 1: just an open event. Whoever turns up come Zack's birthday, 87 00:06:09,481 --> 00:06:13,081 Speaker 1: and again all the kids come and tragically there was 88 00:06:13,121 --> 00:06:15,841 Speaker 1: another girl that was of Zack's age that went to 89 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,961 Speaker 1: Maitland High and she had taken her life by suicide 90 00:06:20,041 --> 00:06:23,481 Speaker 1: and her funeral was the same day as Sach's birthday, 91 00:06:23,641 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: so you can imagine the double bash of grief where 92 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,721 Speaker 1: kids were grieving their friend that took their life and 93 00:06:31,801 --> 00:06:41,241 Speaker 1: still missing Zach. And then this year we had a 94 00:06:41,241 --> 00:06:47,401 Speaker 1: black tie event for his twenty first birthday and we 95 00:06:47,481 --> 00:06:50,121 Speaker 1: tried to acknowledge the other missing people and we had 96 00:06:50,161 --> 00:06:53,361 Speaker 1: a table of ten of other missing people. So we 97 00:06:53,401 --> 00:06:57,001 Speaker 1: had as a statement at an empty table with a 98 00:06:57,241 --> 00:07:01,241 Speaker 1: four plarques with a face and their story on the back, 99 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,241 Speaker 1: so it looked like they were sitting at the table, 100 00:07:03,521 --> 00:07:05,841 Speaker 1: but nobody was was there. 101 00:07:08,721 --> 00:07:12,761 Speaker 4: While the police investigation into Zach's disappearance is still very 102 00:07:12,841 --> 00:07:17,041 Speaker 4: much on going, Zach's mum is also searching for answers, 103 00:07:17,361 --> 00:07:21,521 Speaker 4: which she hopes may come through a coronial inquest. Helping 104 00:07:21,561 --> 00:07:25,121 Speaker 4: her achieve that her work colleagues who are helping raise 105 00:07:25,201 --> 00:07:28,001 Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars for legal fees. 106 00:07:28,241 --> 00:07:30,601 Speaker 5: We're prepared to do whatever we have to in order 107 00:07:30,641 --> 00:07:34,241 Speaker 5: to get Karen the resources that she needs to get 108 00:07:34,241 --> 00:07:38,001 Speaker 5: her the answers that anyone would want under those circumstances. 109 00:07:38,121 --> 00:07:40,041 Speaker 1: When I heard that was going to happen, I sat 110 00:07:40,081 --> 00:07:42,641 Speaker 1: in the car for ten minutes crying. Put myself together. 111 00:07:43,321 --> 00:07:46,241 Speaker 1: I think I can't believe that they would do this 112 00:07:46,321 --> 00:07:46,641 Speaker 1: for me. 113 00:07:49,081 --> 00:07:49,361 Speaker 5: Blood. 114 00:07:49,361 --> 00:07:52,681 Speaker 1: People question why would we raise money for a coronial inquest. 115 00:07:53,201 --> 00:07:55,921 Speaker 1: A coronal inquest is generally free, but often have a 116 00:07:55,961 --> 00:08:01,721 Speaker 1: body to tell the story and we've only got information 117 00:08:01,841 --> 00:08:04,641 Speaker 1: that comes through and we may have to fight that information. 118 00:08:04,721 --> 00:08:07,601 Speaker 1: And that's the case, well then we need legal representation. 119 00:08:08,401 --> 00:08:11,001 Speaker 1: So people didn't understand that. 120 00:08:11,441 --> 00:08:15,761 Speaker 5: My name is Robert Myers. I'm a barrister practicing in Brisbane. 121 00:08:16,881 --> 00:08:20,841 Speaker 5: A coronial in quest is based on probability supported by fact. 122 00:08:21,601 --> 00:08:23,401 Speaker 5: You see, by the time you get to Corona's inquest, 123 00:08:23,641 --> 00:08:25,401 Speaker 5: that all of the statements are being prepared and all 124 00:08:25,401 --> 00:08:27,441 Speaker 5: of the people that are relevant and I'm not talking 125 00:08:27,481 --> 00:08:28,961 Speaker 5: about everyone that's got a bit of a theory on 126 00:08:28,961 --> 00:08:30,721 Speaker 5: how what might have happened to him, but all of 127 00:08:30,761 --> 00:08:32,681 Speaker 5: the people that saw him, you know, the day before 128 00:08:33,041 --> 00:08:35,401 Speaker 5: up to that evening, and she'd have a right to 129 00:08:35,441 --> 00:08:39,001 Speaker 5: appear and to cross examine witnesses and all of the 130 00:08:39,041 --> 00:08:40,241 Speaker 5: evidence would come out. 131 00:08:41,561 --> 00:08:46,641 Speaker 1: And if it was correlated, really well, well, it would 132 00:08:46,721 --> 00:08:49,761 Speaker 1: be easy to go yeah, I think that happened. Close 133 00:08:49,761 --> 00:08:50,161 Speaker 1: the case. 134 00:08:50,401 --> 00:08:52,441 Speaker 5: If he makes the decision and you don't like it, 135 00:08:53,001 --> 00:08:56,081 Speaker 5: you'd take the next step. You can obviously appeal the 136 00:08:56,121 --> 00:08:59,161 Speaker 5: decision by going to you probably get a judicial review. 137 00:08:59,321 --> 00:09:01,881 Speaker 5: Under the judicial review actually go to the Supreme Court 138 00:09:02,481 --> 00:09:05,041 Speaker 5: and say, look, we think there was a sufficient evident, 139 00:09:05,841 --> 00:09:08,881 Speaker 5: but they'd have to be sufficient evidence. 140 00:09:10,401 --> 00:09:12,921 Speaker 2: In July of twenty twenty five, there was a coronial 141 00:09:12,961 --> 00:09:15,841 Speaker 2: inquest in the New South Wales Coroner's Court following the 142 00:09:15,921 --> 00:09:18,841 Speaker 2: last episode of this podcast, will update you on the outcome. 143 00:09:20,681 --> 00:09:22,081 Speaker 2: How are you raising money at the moment. 144 00:09:22,721 --> 00:09:26,481 Speaker 1: So we have a go fundme page find Zach Barnes 145 00:09:26,801 --> 00:09:29,801 Speaker 1: and we've had the twenty first fundraising event and we 146 00:09:29,921 --> 00:09:32,961 Speaker 1: raised seven thousand dollars from that night. But a barrister 147 00:09:33,001 --> 00:09:36,321 Speaker 1: can cost us ten thousand dollars a day, if you know, 148 00:09:36,561 --> 00:09:40,681 Speaker 1: depending on how how involved. I mean, the brief might 149 00:09:40,721 --> 00:09:45,361 Speaker 1: be an exercise book that might be five you know, 150 00:09:45,441 --> 00:09:47,841 Speaker 1: telephone books thick. So we don't know what we're up 151 00:09:47,881 --> 00:09:49,921 Speaker 1: against until and that's what we're just trying to get 152 00:09:49,921 --> 00:09:54,081 Speaker 1: to that point. So that's what this birthday was all about. 153 00:09:55,001 --> 00:09:57,801 Speaker 1: And as a tribute to remember him, and it was 154 00:09:57,841 --> 00:10:01,121 Speaker 1: just so heartwarming. It meant meant everything that they made 155 00:10:01,361 --> 00:10:04,641 Speaker 1: an effort and total strangers turn up and support it. 156 00:10:05,561 --> 00:10:11,921 Speaker 1: Mikayla and Miya sex little sisters. They quiteened the room. 157 00:10:12,721 --> 00:10:15,721 Speaker 1: They sang a song for Zach, and they sang the 158 00:10:15,761 --> 00:10:21,281 Speaker 1: song Hey Brother by a vincing and yeah, everyone had 159 00:10:21,721 --> 00:10:25,561 Speaker 1: sparklers on the table, and yeah, the room was just 160 00:10:25,681 --> 00:10:28,321 Speaker 1: silent and for the tears as these two little girls 161 00:10:28,801 --> 00:10:31,761 Speaker 1: bounced around on stage and were so proud to sing 162 00:10:32,761 --> 00:10:33,441 Speaker 1: for their brother. 163 00:10:35,441 --> 00:10:38,121 Speaker 2: Lots of rumors and theories have been talked about when 164 00:10:38,121 --> 00:10:41,321 Speaker 2: it comes to the case of Zach Barnes. I wanted 165 00:10:41,361 --> 00:10:44,961 Speaker 2: Karen to respond to some of those, like the rumors 166 00:10:45,121 --> 00:10:48,401 Speaker 2: around Zach's money situation at the time he went missing. 167 00:10:48,681 --> 00:10:53,401 Speaker 1: He did owe somebody money and that was another friend 168 00:10:53,881 --> 00:10:57,681 Speaker 1: of his who was of similar age, and that has 169 00:10:57,801 --> 00:11:02,041 Speaker 1: been addressed with that person and they have been fully 170 00:11:02,201 --> 00:11:06,481 Speaker 1: cooperated with the police. Wasn't love amount of money, and 171 00:11:07,121 --> 00:11:11,561 Speaker 1: this person wasn't concerned about the money. New Zach was 172 00:11:11,601 --> 00:11:13,321 Speaker 1: good for it, so there was going to be no 173 00:11:13,401 --> 00:11:18,801 Speaker 1: one coming after him to collect or anything like that. 174 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:23,241 Speaker 1: So on the Tuesday, he was very agitated, and I said, 175 00:11:23,281 --> 00:11:26,921 Speaker 1: do you need money? And he's like, yes, so and 176 00:11:26,961 --> 00:11:28,241 Speaker 1: it was only a small amount. It was like a 177 00:11:28,281 --> 00:11:33,881 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So my question immediately would be, if you 178 00:11:33,921 --> 00:11:36,281 Speaker 1: don't get this money, are you going to be in danger? 179 00:11:36,681 --> 00:11:40,241 Speaker 1: Is somebody going to hurt you? Like, because I'd rather 180 00:11:40,241 --> 00:11:43,601 Speaker 1: give him the money than spend ten grand getting his 181 00:11:43,641 --> 00:11:48,241 Speaker 1: teeth fixed or something like that. And his direct response 182 00:11:48,281 --> 00:11:51,321 Speaker 1: to me was I'm not going to get hurt, but 183 00:11:51,441 --> 00:11:55,881 Speaker 1: my friend will. So makes me wonder was he trying 184 00:11:55,921 --> 00:12:02,481 Speaker 1: to help somebody? That's my far Because we agreed to 185 00:12:02,481 --> 00:12:05,281 Speaker 1: give him the money and he had the money, he 186 00:12:05,361 --> 00:12:07,281 Speaker 1: had it when he went to work. He was giving 187 00:12:07,321 --> 00:12:10,521 Speaker 1: it to whoever on Friday, and we didn't know who 188 00:12:10,561 --> 00:12:12,761 Speaker 1: at that point because he was being a bit guarded. 189 00:12:13,801 --> 00:12:18,001 Speaker 2: After Zack went missing, and during her own discovery, Karen 190 00:12:18,041 --> 00:12:20,441 Speaker 2: found out he seemed to have been in his work 191 00:12:20,481 --> 00:12:24,921 Speaker 2: clothes all weekend, something that felt a little off to her. 192 00:12:26,281 --> 00:12:30,921 Speaker 1: He left work on Friday in his work clothes. He 193 00:12:31,001 --> 00:12:37,161 Speaker 1: went missing on Sunday in his work clothes. Now, Zach 194 00:12:37,401 --> 00:12:40,281 Speaker 1: he liked things orderly. I mean, he started to get 195 00:12:40,321 --> 00:12:43,081 Speaker 1: this hippie look going on that made him look a 196 00:12:43,081 --> 00:12:48,081 Speaker 1: bit grungy and scrungy, but he boiled his toothbrush. He 197 00:12:48,281 --> 00:12:52,121 Speaker 1: liked things orderly. He would not have stayed in the 198 00:12:52,161 --> 00:12:57,361 Speaker 1: same clothes or weekend unless he thought it was all 199 00:12:57,681 --> 00:13:02,121 Speaker 1: the one day, if you know what I mean. He 200 00:13:02,321 --> 00:13:07,121 Speaker 1: was definitely having a big weekend. And you know why 201 00:13:07,201 --> 00:13:12,801 Speaker 1: I questioned and doubt, and because I question everything, Like 202 00:13:13,361 --> 00:13:16,401 Speaker 1: when I was questioning about the clothes, what clothes did 203 00:13:16,401 --> 00:13:19,241 Speaker 1: he have on when he went missing? And then realized 204 00:13:19,241 --> 00:13:21,281 Speaker 1: that the same clothes that he had on on Friday, 205 00:13:22,121 --> 00:13:25,201 Speaker 1: And then that no one was talking about this big 206 00:13:25,241 --> 00:13:29,241 Speaker 1: fun weekend that they were having. It made me question 207 00:13:29,361 --> 00:13:32,561 Speaker 1: why was he still in the same clothes, Because Zach 208 00:13:32,641 --> 00:13:35,321 Speaker 1: would have had a shower and he would not put 209 00:13:35,361 --> 00:13:38,801 Speaker 1: dirty clothes back on, so he would have said to 210 00:13:38,841 --> 00:13:41,081 Speaker 1: his mate, give me some clothes. You know, they share 211 00:13:41,161 --> 00:13:44,441 Speaker 1: clothes and whatever, and he should have been in his 212 00:13:44,481 --> 00:13:47,281 Speaker 1: friend's clothes, but he was in his own clothes. And 213 00:13:47,321 --> 00:13:51,561 Speaker 1: when I casually questioned the friends that he was with, 214 00:13:51,641 --> 00:13:55,481 Speaker 1: I said, did Zack sleep on Saturday night? And they 215 00:13:55,521 --> 00:13:57,801 Speaker 1: said yes, And then I just asked the question, did 216 00:13:57,801 --> 00:14:00,561 Speaker 1: he have a shower? And they said yes, So that 217 00:14:00,721 --> 00:14:02,521 Speaker 1: sort of sent a red flag to me. 218 00:14:02,881 --> 00:14:04,081 Speaker 2: What did Breeze say? 219 00:14:04,121 --> 00:14:07,241 Speaker 1: She saw him man work clothes, so the other people 220 00:14:07,281 --> 00:14:09,681 Speaker 1: told me he got changed into his work clothes. 221 00:14:09,721 --> 00:14:13,801 Speaker 4: On Sunday, Zach was last seen wearing a faded blue singlet, 222 00:14:14,041 --> 00:14:16,961 Speaker 4: dark blue board shorts, and work boots. 223 00:14:17,401 --> 00:14:19,641 Speaker 1: Which is the same clothes he wore when I drove 224 00:14:19,721 --> 00:14:20,721 Speaker 1: him to work on Friday. 225 00:14:21,761 --> 00:14:24,521 Speaker 2: There was some talk that Zach fought with his mum 226 00:14:24,761 --> 00:14:27,641 Speaker 2: then lost his job on Friday, so I was afraid 227 00:14:27,681 --> 00:14:31,681 Speaker 2: to go home that weekend. I asked Karen, was there 228 00:14:31,721 --> 00:14:32,081 Speaker 2: a fight? 229 00:14:32,641 --> 00:14:36,841 Speaker 1: No, when this girl went and seen Zack and offered 230 00:14:36,881 --> 00:14:41,361 Speaker 1: him a lift home because Zach said no, the police 231 00:14:41,361 --> 00:14:44,281 Speaker 1: has seen that as confirmation. Well, he must have had 232 00:14:44,321 --> 00:14:47,681 Speaker 1: an argument with his mum, and if he hadn't of, 233 00:14:47,761 --> 00:14:49,481 Speaker 1: he would have gotten in the car and gone home 234 00:14:49,481 --> 00:14:51,921 Speaker 1: with her. So he must have wanted to stay away. 235 00:14:52,761 --> 00:14:55,921 Speaker 1: And my question is, well, maybe he was rude to 236 00:14:56,041 --> 00:15:00,841 Speaker 1: bree because she may have been in danger and he 237 00:15:00,961 --> 00:15:02,201 Speaker 1: wanted her gone. 238 00:15:02,641 --> 00:15:05,481 Speaker 4: I hope it was protecting or protecting self. 239 00:15:05,481 --> 00:15:06,521 Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not sure. 240 00:15:13,001 --> 00:15:15,841 Speaker 2: When you're eighteen year old son goes missing and there 241 00:15:15,841 --> 00:15:19,041 Speaker 2: are no clear answers after a long period of time, 242 00:15:19,881 --> 00:15:23,921 Speaker 2: you resort to any means necessary to find out what happened. 243 00:15:25,201 --> 00:15:29,401 Speaker 2: Over the last three years since Zach went missing, Karen 244 00:15:29,441 --> 00:15:32,601 Speaker 2: has received information from all sorts of places. 245 00:15:33,241 --> 00:15:36,321 Speaker 1: I'm not chasing the psychics of psychics are coming to me. 246 00:15:36,761 --> 00:15:41,001 Speaker 1: I believe in God where Christians have my own particular faith, 247 00:15:41,481 --> 00:15:45,281 Speaker 1: but then I'm challenged by this psychic realm, which I 248 00:15:45,361 --> 00:15:48,881 Speaker 1: don't want, you know, believe in, and like it goes 249 00:15:48,921 --> 00:15:51,561 Speaker 1: against everything I have faith in. But I've been in 250 00:15:51,641 --> 00:15:54,841 Speaker 1: positions where I've had people come to me with information 251 00:15:55,041 --> 00:15:58,161 Speaker 1: that they could not know. None of this is public. 252 00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:04,241 Speaker 1: And one particular event was I was selling a house 253 00:16:04,281 --> 00:16:08,201 Speaker 1: in cesnot it wasn't even under my name. It was 254 00:16:08,241 --> 00:16:11,801 Speaker 1: listed in one of my colleagues names, so my name 255 00:16:11,921 --> 00:16:14,361 Speaker 1: was not there, so no one could have just turned up. 256 00:16:14,601 --> 00:16:16,801 Speaker 1: This lady came back, he bought the house, and she 257 00:16:16,961 --> 00:16:21,161 Speaker 1: bought a friend with her, and he kept staring at me, 258 00:16:21,281 --> 00:16:23,801 Speaker 1: and he eventually came up to me and said, you're 259 00:16:23,801 --> 00:16:25,721 Speaker 1: going to think I'm crazy, but I have to tell 260 00:16:25,801 --> 00:16:30,841 Speaker 1: you something. And moment okay, he didn't even know my name, 261 00:16:31,041 --> 00:16:34,121 Speaker 1: and then he said that he sees things then he's gifted, 262 00:16:35,081 --> 00:16:37,921 Speaker 1: and he said, well, I have to share something with you. 263 00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:43,241 Speaker 1: And he said, there's this boy and he's been coming 264 00:16:43,281 --> 00:16:46,521 Speaker 1: to me for the last week. He's so strong willed 265 00:16:47,201 --> 00:16:49,641 Speaker 1: and he's scary. And I said, well, what does he say? 266 00:16:49,761 --> 00:16:52,641 Speaker 1: And he goes, he's like he harasses me. He says, 267 00:16:52,641 --> 00:16:54,961 Speaker 1: you've got to tell my mom. You've got to tell 268 00:16:55,001 --> 00:16:56,881 Speaker 1: my mom. And he just comes back saying that all 269 00:16:56,921 --> 00:17:00,681 Speaker 1: the time. And then this goes on for days, and 270 00:17:00,721 --> 00:17:02,961 Speaker 1: then the guy says, what do you want me to 271 00:17:03,001 --> 00:17:04,441 Speaker 1: tell your mom? And you know, what are you dad? 272 00:17:04,441 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: Are you a spirit it or whatever? And he says, 273 00:17:07,801 --> 00:17:12,521 Speaker 1: tell my mum, I didn't commit suicide. And this was 274 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: the talk roughly happening at the time, so this was 275 00:17:15,281 --> 00:17:20,041 Speaker 1: back in January February this year. And then he goes, 276 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: he tells me things, and I said, oh what. And 277 00:17:24,481 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: he starts describing this boy and I was sort of 278 00:17:29,321 --> 00:17:33,321 Speaker 1: expecting him to be describing the image or whatever he's seeing, 279 00:17:33,321 --> 00:17:37,001 Speaker 1: but he starts describing the dark hair and the olive 280 00:17:37,041 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: skin and the dark eyes, and he's very defined, like 281 00:17:40,001 --> 00:17:44,961 Speaker 1: I'm thinking he's describing Cody Zax brother. Before I could 282 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,481 Speaker 1: actually say anything to him, he goes, does the name 283 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: Cody mean anything to you? He had my attention at 284 00:17:50,721 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: that point. So it's funny to say that because I 285 00:17:52,321 --> 00:17:56,961 Speaker 1: was just thinking, you're describing my son Cody. And he said, 286 00:17:57,001 --> 00:18:01,401 Speaker 1: he's worried about him. He keeps saying look out for him, 287 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,041 Speaker 1: his you know, watch him. And Cody had been quite 288 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,721 Speaker 1: traumatized through the whole experience, and sometimes I would wonder 289 00:18:09,201 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: was Cody gonna hurt himself, you know, because the grief 290 00:18:12,521 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: was just all all too much. And I just went okay, 291 00:18:18,281 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: and then I sort of confirmed that Cody was sort 292 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: of very vulnerable. And then he goes he shows me 293 00:18:24,201 --> 00:18:26,761 Speaker 1: stuff and I said, well, what does he show you? 294 00:18:27,561 --> 00:18:32,761 Speaker 1: And he said, I can see him getting into a 295 00:18:32,801 --> 00:18:36,521 Speaker 1: gray car. It was a silver car he got into. 296 00:18:37,041 --> 00:18:41,561 Speaker 1: That's not public knowledge. And he goes, he got in 297 00:18:41,561 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: the car, and I said, yep, and he has and 298 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: I see him running from the car and like, I've 299 00:18:46,521 --> 00:18:50,641 Speaker 1: questioned that, and I said, okay, you know, and he goes, 300 00:18:50,681 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: but he gets in the car. He gets in the 301 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: car again, I said, is it the same car or 302 00:18:54,721 --> 00:18:58,041 Speaker 1: a different car? And he goes, I don't know, but 303 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: he gets in a car. And then he said he 304 00:19:00,721 --> 00:19:03,561 Speaker 1: can see him in a house. I can see he's 305 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: in a house and there's three people there, and then 306 00:19:07,521 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: he describes a man thirty seven to forty. He's very descriptive. Again, 307 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,721 Speaker 1: and I've heard this three or four other times about 308 00:19:16,761 --> 00:19:19,561 Speaker 1: this man thirty seven to forty from other people with 309 00:19:19,721 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: random stuff that they've sent. And then he said I 310 00:19:23,481 --> 00:19:28,321 Speaker 1: can feel him and his heart is racing one hundred 311 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:32,001 Speaker 1: mile an hour and is saying in his head, I 312 00:19:32,001 --> 00:19:34,441 Speaker 1: don't want to be part of this. And then this 313 00:19:34,481 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: guy says he starts saying, I'm not like my dad. 314 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:41,481 Speaker 1: I'm not like my dad. His dad got into heroin 315 00:19:41,561 --> 00:19:44,401 Speaker 1: and stuff, like, never a dealer or anything, but as 316 00:19:44,441 --> 00:19:47,241 Speaker 1: an addict. And that's why I know he's not a 317 00:19:47,281 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: drug addict, because he hated his dad for that. And 318 00:19:50,961 --> 00:19:54,081 Speaker 1: I'm thinking this guy could not know that, you know. 319 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: And then I said, well, what happens next? 320 00:20:07,441 --> 00:20:13,241 Speaker 2: What happened to Zach? If you have information that could 321 00:20:13,241 --> 00:20:18,001 Speaker 2: help police, call crime Stoppers on one eight hundred, triple three, 322 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: triple zero. Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting 323 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,321 Speaker 2: this story. Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what 324 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: pod Shape really cares about. 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