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Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer.

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Sean Aylmer: We've spoken a lot on this podcast about the tech

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Sean Aylmer: boom in Australia. We have a terrific startup culture, as

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Sean Aylmer: well as some more established players like Atlassian. But today

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Sean Aylmer: I wanted to take a broader look at where the

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Sean Aylmer: technology is being embraced by the rest of the economy because

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Sean Aylmer: if we don't digitise, we risk being left behind. The

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Sean Aylmer: Australian Information Industry Association represents more than 300 companies covering

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Sean Aylmer: many of the 750,000 Australian workers in information and communications technology.

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Sean Aylmer: Ron Gauci has held senior roles in technology and communications

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Sean Aylmer: companies ranging from Microsoft to IBM, to Telstra. He's now

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Sean Aylmer: the Chief Executive of the AIIA and is my guest

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Sean Aylmer: this morning. Ron, welcome to Fear and Greed.

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Ron Gauci: Thank  you,  Sean.  It's  a  pleasure.

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Sean Aylmer: So  where  do  you  start  in  your  job?  You're  spearheading 

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Sean Aylmer: the  tech  industry's  integration  across  all  Australian  industries.  Where  do 

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Sean Aylmer: you  kick  things  off?

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Ron Gauci: Yes, you're right. It is easy to get inundated with

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Ron Gauci: and distracted by the options given how large the industry

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Ron Gauci: is and the impacts it's had on other industries. I

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Ron Gauci: guess the best focus is on other industries that are

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Ron Gauci: a priority for Australia with an eye to which ones

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Ron Gauci: then are growing. So the priority industries for us, as you know,

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Ron Gauci: are mining, agriculture, finance, biotech, and sport, sport being one

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Ron Gauci: of the up and comings. Then you've got environment, space, defence,

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Ron Gauci: they're all growing with a bullet as well. And then,

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Ron Gauci: of course, there's our technology industry. And to put it

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Ron Gauci: all in perspective, technology was our sixth largest industry by

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Ron Gauci: GDP 12 months ago. Today, it's the third largest with a bullet.

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Sean Aylmer: Wow.

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Ron Gauci: And our technology impacts every other industry in this country. So

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Ron Gauci: if we learn how to commercialise things like AI (Artificial Intelligence) and IoT

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Ron Gauci: (Internet of Things) and Quantum, and the likes and cybersecurity, for example, we can add

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Ron Gauci: in excess of $300 to $400 billion to our economy by 2030, and

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Ron Gauci: also the tech industry has its own ASX index. So

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Ron Gauci: that's an indication, I guess.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let's look at a couple of the main

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Sean Aylmer: sectors in a bit more detail. Starting with health. We're ranked 26th out

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Sean Aylmer: of 31 countries in the World Index of Healthcare Innovation.

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Sean Aylmer: What do we do to change that?

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Ron Gauci: Yeah. Look, health is a great example. We can change

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Ron Gauci: it by taking a customer service- driven mindset, which is

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Ron Gauci: then powered by innovation technology that enables this execution. COVID

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Ron Gauci: has actually forced some of the much needed changes. And

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Ron Gauci: for example, our everyday practices have changed. We've got telehealth

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Ron Gauci: being more widely used now in digital prescriptions, but we're

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Ron Gauci: a long way short of where some of the other

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Ron Gauci: more developed nations are with the centralisation of patient records,

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Ron Gauci: regional practices. Many practices don't even have PCs, let alone digitisation.

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Ron Gauci: And then there's the operational efficiencies early in the COVID cycle

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Ron Gauci: and even after, I think the second or so lockdown.

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Ron Gauci: Vic Government, the DHHS was purchasing fax machines as a

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Ron Gauci: solution to our early tracking and tracing system.

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Sean Aylmer: Wow.

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Ron Gauci: If  you  look at the British  NHS  system,  for  example,  that's  a  great 

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Ron Gauci: example  of  how  we  can  work  better.  But  more  recently, 

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Ron Gauci: if I can give  you  a  more  practical  example,  for  reasons  we  don't 

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Ron Gauci: need  to  go  into  on  this  call,  I  needed  surgery 

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Ron Gauci: on  my  back and it  was  critical  surgery.  And  I  spent  a 

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Ron Gauci: couple  of  weeks  in  hospital.  To  see  the  nurses  doing 

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Ron Gauci: my  blood  tests  and  my  heart  tests,  blood  pressure  tests 

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Ron Gauci: and  the  likes  three  or  four  times  a  day,  and 

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Ron Gauci: then  having  them  hand  write  things  on  pads  and  on 

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Ron Gauci: their  arms  and  that  to  then  later  transfer  from  the 

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Ron Gauci: system  to  their  hand  to  the  computer  is  just  totally 

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Ron Gauci: inefficient  (crosstalk) .

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Sean Aylmer: Inefficient.  Yeah.

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Ron Gauci: It  leaves  margin  for  error.  So  I  think  there's  lots 

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Ron Gauci: of  ways  we  can  learn  and  improve  the  way  we 

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Ron Gauci: deliver  health  in  this  country.

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Sean Aylmer: Is  one  of  the  issues  there,  the  fact  collaboration  or 

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Sean Aylmer: a  lack  of  collaboration,  because  I  know  health  particularly  can 

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Sean Aylmer: be  incredibly  competitive  between  specialties  and  between  hospitals  and  areas 

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Sean Aylmer: and  jurisdictions  and  things  like  that,  not  sharing  data,  not 

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Sean Aylmer: sharing  information.  How  important  is  collaboration  to  actually  getting  this  going?

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Ron Gauci: I  think  collaboration  is  key,  but  I  do  see  examples 

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Ron Gauci: of  that  across  various  sectors  within  health.  I  think  you 

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Ron Gauci: touched  on  the  point  there  around  jurisdictions.  We  know  that 

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Ron Gauci: COVID  has  exposed  some  significant  issues  around  this  country's  federation 

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Ron Gauci: and  that  various  jurisdictions  and  where  health  sits  in those,  is 

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Ron Gauci: part  of  the  problem.  Each  state  does  have  its  own 

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Ron Gauci: jurisdiction  around  health.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay.  What  about  manufacturing?  That's  another  big  one.  It's  an 

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Sean Aylmer: industry,  which  we  were  very  strong  in  it,  fell  back 

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Sean Aylmer: though,  certainly  in  niche  areas  we  seem  to  bat  pretty  well.

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Ron Gauci: We  do.  And  what  it  means  is  that  we're  seeing 

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Ron Gauci: automation  playing  a  huge  part  in  improving  the  output,  the 

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Ron Gauci: efficient  manufacturing  in  product,  innovation,  developing  new  product  and  the 

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Ron Gauci: use  of  data  to  make  sure  that  we  make  sound 

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Ron Gauci: and  informed  decisions  through  things  like  AI  and  machine  learning 

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Ron Gauci: and  robotics.  So  manufacturing  is  a  really  good  example  of 

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Ron Gauci: how  Australia  actually  punches  pretty  well  above  its  weight.

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Sean Aylmer: The  one  that  always  interests  me  is  agriculture.  And  I've 

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Sean Aylmer: talked  about  this  on  Fear  and  Greed  previously.  Friends  of 

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Sean Aylmer: mine  come  from  the  country  and  friends  of  mine,  farmers 

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Sean Aylmer: or  people  on  properties  are  incredibly  technically  savvy.

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Ron Gauci: Yes.

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Sean Aylmer: It's  a  really  interesting  space  this  one,  because  a  lot 

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Sean Aylmer: of  them  have  embraced  technology.  What's  missing?

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Ron Gauci: Well, so what you said is actually spot on, Sean.

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Ron Gauci: Agritech is a great opportunity for Australia. Our technology is

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Ron Gauci: making a huge difference in everything from environment management to production,

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Ron Gauci: supply chain, getting fresher produce from the paddock to your

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Ron Gauci: plate more quickly and efficiently and indeed safely. We have

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Ron Gauci: an annual award program called the iAwards and this year's entries,

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Ron Gauci: and we get a couple hundred a year, but around agritech,

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Ron Gauci: just the ability to detect bugs, viruses, environmental changes, we

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Ron Gauci: really do this really well. My concern though, to answer

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Ron Gauci: your question is sadly, we're seeing many of the innovations

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Ron Gauci: making their way back to Australia as solutions that we

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Ron Gauci: then consume because our expertise is being sold off overseas

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Ron Gauci: or our IP. And we've got to find a way

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Ron Gauci: to actually own this, embrace it, and then sell to,

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Ron Gauci: not buy from.

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Sean Aylmer: So  how  do  you  do  that?

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Ron Gauci: Well, I think that comes down to the government needing to

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Ron Gauci: set some national strategies on how we're going to play

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Ron Gauci: in a way that our economy benefits becomes independently sustainable

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Ron Gauci: and protects our priority industries from becoming globally uncompetitive, like agriculture.

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Ron Gauci: I've seen examples of overseas where the whole paddock to plate is

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Ron Gauci: so much more efficient than our own. So the government needs,

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Ron Gauci: with the help of private enterprise, to create an environment

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Ron Gauci: for success through encouraging and supporting commercialisation, providing incentives for

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Ron Gauci: investors and innovators. You can change tax regimes, you can

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Ron Gauci: provide better access to resources and skills, and then opening

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Ron Gauci: up our external markets for our producers, which is a

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Ron Gauci: great example of the opportunity we're going to miss if we

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Ron Gauci: don't commercialise AI, for example, which is very heavy in agritech.

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Sean Aylmer: Stay  with  me,  Ron,  we'll  be  back  in  a  minute.


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Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Ron Gauci, CEO of the Australian Information

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Sean Aylmer: Industry Association. Okay. So a lot of the incentives are probably seen through

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Sean Aylmer: an R& D prism. Is this something that governments should

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Sean Aylmer: think at more discreetly so that they can actually develop

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Sean Aylmer: programs and be they subsidies or otherwise that actually directly

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Sean Aylmer: help these creators of this great technology, be they in agricultural or

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Sean Aylmer: manufacturing or health or anywhere else in the economy? Is

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Sean Aylmer: it something that we need a little bit more focus

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Sean Aylmer: or even a discreet section of government to be thinking about?

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Ron Gauci: Yeah, Sean, I think that's right. I think, again, it starts

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Ron Gauci: with having that national strategy and having a clear idea

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Ron Gauci: of the direction we want to go in. You mentioned research,

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Ron Gauci: we do spend a bit on research in early stage

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Ron Gauci: development and it's nowhere near the levels of overseas, but

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Ron Gauci: where the AIIA had an issue and I'll use AI

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Ron Gauci: as an example, is in the commercialisation. We seem to

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Ron Gauci: do fairly well in research, but we haven't really got

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Ron Gauci: a commercialisation strategy. AI alone in this country, according to

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Ron Gauci: all the reports and there's quite a few of them out there led by CSIRO,

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Ron Gauci: said that the AI industry could be worth an additional

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Ron Gauci: 315 billion to Australia by 2030, if we commercialise. And

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Ron Gauci: we don't have a national commercialisation strategy and we've been

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Ron Gauci: lobbying the government with some strategies on how we do that.

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Ron Gauci: But certainly, I think that could become a missed opportunity

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Ron Gauci: because we're falling well behind global trends.

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Sean Aylmer: The government's thinking about it because last week a Senate committee laid out

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Sean Aylmer: a plan for Australia to take a leadership role regulating

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Sean Aylmer: the global digital economy. And part of that was a

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Sean Aylmer: governance model that would allow companies to be run by

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Sean Aylmer: an internet community instead of executives and directors. I had

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Sean Aylmer: never thought of that until I saw that report to

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Sean Aylmer: be perfectly honest. Is that the sort of thing you're

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Sean Aylmer: talking about?

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Ron Gauci: Yes,  amongst  other  things.  Absolutely.  That's  a  good  example  of, 

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Ron Gauci: if  we  want  to  be  innovative,  we  need  to  be 

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Ron Gauci: innovative  in the  way  we  look  at  it.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. What about skills? Do we have enough people because

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Sean Aylmer: every time I think about this and every industry I

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Sean Aylmer: look at, they're always calling out for digital skills. And

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Sean Aylmer: we're not talking about extreme digital skills. We're talking about

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Sean Aylmer: all digital skills right across the spectrum.

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Ron Gauci: Correct. And that's a great point. And I'll start with

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Ron Gauci: the good news. And the good news is skills are

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Ron Gauci: on the top of the agenda of every state government

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Ron Gauci: and in fact, federal government. So I'm pleased to report

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Ron Gauci: that that is a focus. In our industry alone, the

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Ron Gauci: technology industry employs, you said 750,000 in your introduction. That's

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Ron Gauci: at least that. It may well be over 800, 000 people. We don't know,

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Ron Gauci: but we have a shortage on top of that of

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Ron Gauci: some 250,000 across digitisation, AI, cybersecurity, et cetera. And the number

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Ron Gauci: is growing annually. So the skill shortage is a massive issue,

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Ron Gauci: but it's also a massive opportunity. We should be at

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Ron Gauci: around 1. 5 million people employed in our industry within

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Ron Gauci: the next three to five years if we get this right.

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Ron Gauci: And I said the AIIA is working on several programs around the country,

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Ron Gauci: federal and state governments. There's something like 5,000, 6, 000 courses

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Ron Gauci: now that people can apply for to address this opportunity.

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Ron Gauci: And it creates opportunity for reskilling, cross- skilling, upskilling, call it what you like.

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Ron Gauci: And then there's the STEM programs to encourage young students. So

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Ron Gauci: contemplate this, Sean, if I'm looking for a career change

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Ron Gauci: as an experienced worker, or if I'm looking for a

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Ron Gauci: future career as a young student, a skill in the

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Ron Gauci: tech industry can allow me to work in any other

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Ron Gauci: industry that I like. And according to the Aon report that we partner with,

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Ron Gauci: a career in the tech industry can actually create amongst

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Ron Gauci: the highest paying roles in the country, higher than doctors

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Ron Gauci: and lawyers, and look at how many young technology entrepreneurs

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Ron Gauci: are now the most wealthy in the nation, if not

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Ron Gauci: in the world.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.  We  need  a  whole  of  economy  solution  because  what 

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Sean Aylmer: you  are  talking  about  literally  impacts  every  sector.

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Ron Gauci: Correct.  Absolutely  right.

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Sean Aylmer: Now, before you go, I mentioned your CV earlier, you

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Sean Aylmer: were the CEO of Melbourne Storm. I didn't realise that.

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Sean Aylmer: In a pretty tough time for the period, what was

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Sean Aylmer: that like?

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Ron Gauci: Well, that's definitely a left for your question. Perhaps if

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Ron Gauci: I extend the answer I've just given you to the

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Ron Gauci: other question around skills portability. So in my CV, it's

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Ron Gauci: fairly eclectic in the types of organisations I work for.

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Ron Gauci: I think the reputation is Mr Fixer, but I tend

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Ron Gauci: to go in and do a lot of transformational work

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Ron Gauci: and for me, transformation isn't about cutting costs and saving businesses.

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Ron Gauci: It's about providing a future. So finding new revenue streams

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Ron Gauci: and growth opportunities. So it was those portable skills that

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Ron Gauci: allowed me to get the role at Melbourne Storm, and that

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Ron Gauci: is a good example. So here's a club that has

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Ron Gauci: had huge success on the field. Firstly, I should ask,

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Ron Gauci: who do you follow in the NRL?

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Sean Aylmer: Not  the  Melbourne  Storm.  I'm  a  Rabbitohs  from  way  back.  I'm Rabbitohs way back.

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Ron Gauci: I like that.  A  healthy  rivalry.  That's  okay.  And  you can take me  for  a 

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Ron Gauci: Greg  Inglis  if  you  like.  But  here's  a  club  that 

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Ron Gauci: has  had  huge  success  on  the  field.  The  systems,  processes 

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Ron Gauci: and  culture  of  that  hard  work  ethic  was  led  and 

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Ron Gauci: driven  by  Craig  Bellamy  and  Frank  Ponissi  who  had  driven 

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Ron Gauci: that  on- field  success.  In  2010,  in  the  lead- up 

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Ron Gauci: prior  to  the  saga,  News  Corp,  the  owner  of  Storm 

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Ron Gauci: wanted  to  get  out  of  the  ownership  of  the  club 

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Ron Gauci: and  were  looking  to  sell.  Then  the  salary  cap  scandal 

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Ron Gauci: hit,  wiping  the  value  of  the  stock  considerably.  So  more 

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Ron Gauci: than  that,  what  News  was  trying  to  sell  was  not 

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Ron Gauci: actually  commercially  viable.
 What  I  learned  when  I  got  in 

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Ron Gauci: there  is  that  there  were  a  few  other  problems,  let's 

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Ron Gauci: just  put  it  that  way,  in  terms  of  the  off-

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Ron Gauci: field  side  of  the  business.  And  I  found  that  when 

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Ron Gauci: I  arrived,  not only  was  it  despite  the  great  success  on 

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Ron Gauci: the  field,  the  business  itself  had  many  commercial  issues  off 

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Ron Gauci: it.  And  on  top  of  that,  you  then  had  the 

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Ron Gauci: saga  which  impacted  morale  culture.  And  you  can  just  imagine 

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Ron Gauci: the  feeling  around  the  club  at  the  time.
 So  to 

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Ron Gauci: answer  your  question,  my  job  was  to  firstly,  understand  all 

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Ron Gauci: the  issues  that  we  needed  to  address,  instill  stability  and 

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Ron Gauci: confidence  back  into  the  club  so  we  could  keep  our 

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Ron Gauci: core  people,  leave,  but  support  the  coach  and  the  football 

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Ron Gauci: department  who  clearly  knew  what  they  were  doing,  and  then 

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Ron Gauci: find  innovative  ways,  not  only  to  fix  the  business,  but 

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Ron Gauci: create  a  growth  path  to  enable  News  to  sell  the 

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Ron Gauci: business,  which  it  did  within  the  three  years  I  was 

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Ron Gauci: there. And in that  time  we  got  all  the  commercial  metrics  to  the 

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Ron Gauci: best  in  the  history,  up  to  that  point  to  the 

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Ron Gauci: club,  which  today,  it's  so  much  stronger  now.  And  I'm 

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Ron Gauci: very  proud  of  where  the  club  is  today  compared  to 

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Ron Gauci: where  it  was  in  2010  and  the  small  part  that 

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Ron Gauci: I  played  in  that.

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Sean Aylmer: But  you've  given  me  a  playbook  then  for  any  company 

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Sean Aylmer: needing  to  turn  itself  around  really.

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Ron Gauci: Well, hence supportable skills bit. Right? So I was able

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Ron Gauci: to use particularly not only my business skills, but my

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Ron Gauci: technology skills to create... We put in place systems to

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Ron Gauci: analyze data. So I operate off a model called Organisationl Optimisation.

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Ron Gauci: What we were doing was looking at all the leverage, what if

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Ron Gauci: we filled every seat? What if we sold every ticket?

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Ron Gauci: What if we sold more merchandise? All of those dashboards

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Ron Gauci: and metrics we put in place so we could make

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Ron Gauci: informed decisions about where the levers were to actually grow the business.

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Sean Aylmer: Fantastic.  Ron,  thank  you  very  much  for  talking  to  Fear 

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Sean Aylmer: and  Greed  and  thank  you  for  Greg  Inglis.

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Ron Gauci: Thanks,  Sean.  All  the  best.

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Sean Aylmer: That  was  Ron  Gauci,  CEO  of the  Australian  Information  Industry  Association. 

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Sean Aylmer: This  is  a  Fear  and  Greed  Daily  Interview.  Join  me 

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Sean Aylmer: every  morning  for  the  full  Fear  and  Greed  Podcast  with 

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Sean Aylmer: all  the  business  news  you  need  to  know.  I'm  Sean 

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Sean Aylmer: Aylmer.  Enjoy  your  day.