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Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigall

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Speaker 1: people of the Uran Nation.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildebrand.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm not even going to say it anyway. I've

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Speaker 2: got an absolutely massive show for you today. Yes, the

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Speaker 2: Caravan of terror, it has all been officially revealed. Plus

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Speaker 2: what is going on with Donald Trump? Again, it's basically

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Speaker 2: the same topic every week. But steel tariffs? Are they on?

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Speaker 2: Are they off? Are they on? Are they off? Well

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Speaker 2: now it seems that they're on. And do we really care?

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Speaker 2: Is it that big a deal? And do we do

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Speaker 2: what Donald Trump wants us to do to get the

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Speaker 2: steel tariffs taken off? And we're going to find out

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Speaker 2: what is going on in Southwest Sydney. This is a

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Speaker 2: little yarn, little exclusive that I broke just last week,

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Speaker 2: but it's something that's been bubbling under the radar for

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Speaker 2: a very long time. And I'll tell you all about

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Speaker 2: that and much much more right after this. So first

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Speaker 2: up this week, I want to talk about this story

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Speaker 2: that I have been absolutely drowning in, marinating in right,

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Speaker 2: doing a deep dive in. And this is a story

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Speaker 2: in Southwest Sydney where a movement called the Muslim Vote

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Speaker 2: has been mobilizing to run against the Labor Party. And

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Speaker 2: he might have heard of this, but the Muslim Vote,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of like, it's kind of like Muslim teals, right.

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Speaker 2: So they're not a political party, they say, but they're

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Speaker 2: a movement and they provide funding and support and kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, branding to candidates that they think align

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Speaker 2: with their values, candidates that just miraculously appear. And the

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Speaker 2: biggest target they've got in their sites is Tony Burke.

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Speaker 2: Now Tony Burke is the Home Affairs men. He represents

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Speaker 2: the seat of Watson in Southwest Sydney, and Watson has

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Speaker 2: a huge Muslim population. It's about twenty five percent a

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Speaker 2: bit over twenty five percent of the population in the

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Speaker 2: electorate of Watson is Muslim. It's centered around sort of

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Speaker 2: punch Bowl and the Camber, so the real sort of

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Speaker 2: Muslim heartlands of Southwest Sydney. And this is where things

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Speaker 2: get really interesting, because the Muslim vote is angry at

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Speaker 2: the Labor Party for being too pro Israel. Yes, if

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Speaker 2: you're anyone on the sort of right side of the

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Speaker 2: dial in politics, you think, hang on a minute, isn't

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Speaker 2: everyone angry at the Labor Party for being too pro Palestine. Well,

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Speaker 2: yes they are, except these guys. So, according to the

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Speaker 2: Muslim Vote movement, the Labor Party isn't doing enough, despite

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Speaker 2: having supported Palestine in the UNS, despite having supported accelerating

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Speaker 2: the process for Palestinian statehood, even in the wake of

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Speaker 2: the October seven terror attack, despite being accused of the

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Speaker 2: Jewish community in Australia of not doing enough on anti

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Speaker 2: Semitism and being too slow to respond and being too

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Speaker 2: soft on Palestine in the UN. Despite all this, the

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Speaker 2: Muslim Vote says, no, no, no, no, no, or contre monfrere,

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Speaker 2: You're not doing enough. You're actually not pro Palestine enough.

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Speaker 2: You are too pro Israel. Again, this will be news

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Speaker 2: to most of the Jewish community, but when you're on

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Speaker 2: the kind of hard line of politics, you're never satisfied.

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Speaker 2: That's why hardliners are so incredibly annoying. Anyway, So the

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Speaker 2: Muslim Vote is mobilizing these candidates in Southwest Sydney, and

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Speaker 2: it's a very interesting and potentially explosive scenario. But the

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Speaker 2: candidate they're running in the seat of Watson is a guy,

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Speaker 2: a doctor called Ziad Basuni, and I'm I'm sure he's

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Speaker 2: a lovely bloke and everything. He did, unfortunately share a

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Speaker 2: Facebook post celebrating the October seven terror attacks that emerged

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Speaker 2: in the press in September, but he says he didn't

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Speaker 2: mean it. It wasn't like he was. He said, as

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Speaker 2: a doctor and as a Muslim and as a human being,

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Speaker 2: I do not endorse the killing of civilians. So that's

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Speaker 2: nice to know, fantastic, not just as a doctor. As

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Speaker 2: a doctor, I do not support killing people. That's good

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Speaker 2: to know, but also as a Muslim, as a human being,

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Speaker 2: so that's fine. And I guess a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have done dumb stuff or whatever. But the Liberal Party

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Speaker 2: came out at that time and said that this guy

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Speaker 2: had no place in the parliament. So Peter Dutton himself

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Speaker 2: went on two GB and said, this kind of person

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Speaker 2: has no place in our parliament, this person sharing these

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Speaker 2: terrible posts, this this doctor Zi running in the seat

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Speaker 2: of Watson against Tony Burke, no place in our parliament.

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Speaker 2: Very strong on that, and Peter Dutton's been very strong

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Speaker 2: on national security imposed Palestinian refugees coming to this country

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Speaker 2: in the wake of Israel's retaliation against the October seventh

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Speaker 2: terror attack, said, oh where all the security, very strong

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Speaker 2: on national security, very strong on Israel, very strong supporter

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Speaker 2: of the Jewish community, Peter Dutton. So why then is

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party in talks with the Muslim vote to

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Speaker 2: do a preference deal, to preference each other over the

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Speaker 2: Labor Party, Because that is what is happening. These guys

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Speaker 2: are meeting up with each other. And I busted this story.

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Speaker 2: I had to bust it because some other journal was

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Speaker 2: sniffing around and I had to get it out there.

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Speaker 2: So I had to break the yarn in the middle

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Speaker 2: of Bloody Cyclone Alfred presentatives. I'm not gonna I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to name all the names, but representatives of the

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Speaker 2: candidate in Watson and the Liberal Party have been meeting

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Speaker 2: up with a very high profile local liberal identity. And

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Speaker 2: I've been told in the House of that very high

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Speaker 2: profile liberal identity. But again I'm not gonna. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to get into sort of personalities because I'm a

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Speaker 2: nice guy. I like everybody. But these guys have been

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Speaker 2: meeting up, and we've been meeting up to talk about

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Speaker 2: putting Labor last. They've been meeting up to talk about

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Speaker 2: both the Liberals and the Muslim vote, putting Labor lasts

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Speaker 2: on their how to vote cards right now. The meaning

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Speaker 2: of that obviously to anyone with Harper brain, and they

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Speaker 2: will say, oh no, no, it's not a preferenceal it's

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Speaker 2: not a preferencial. We're just both putting Labor last. Yes,

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Speaker 2: But the meaning of putting Labor last is of course

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Speaker 2: that you preference that other party ahead of the Labor Party,

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Speaker 2: which is the only party that could potentially win that

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Speaker 2: seat except for you guessed it, the Muslim vote. So

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Speaker 2: what happens if Labor is last is that Tony Burke,

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Speaker 2: who last time around won the election just on primaries,

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Speaker 2: but this time probably won't. So he got about i

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Speaker 2: think fifty to fifty one percent last time around, So

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Speaker 2: just on primaries he wins that seat with preferences, it's

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Speaker 2: just a monster's like he's got it by fifteen percent.

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Speaker 2: But the Muslim vote candidate's on about fifteen to twenty

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Speaker 2: percent right now, you think fifteen to twenty percent. How

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Speaker 2: can that possibly rival Tony Burke on fifty percent. Well,

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Speaker 2: this is how the preferential system works. As I'm sure

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Speaker 2: most of you will know. If this guy just stays

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Speaker 2: in the game until everyone else drops out, and everyone

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Speaker 2: else gives him their preferences. Then he collects basically all

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Speaker 2: the other votes combined. So Tony Burke doesn't just have

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Speaker 2: to beat the Muslim vote candidate who on primaries he's

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Speaker 2: probably got done by about three to one. He has

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Speaker 2: to beat that guy plus everyone else combined. So here's

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Speaker 2: how it works. You've got Tony Burke and doctor ziad on,

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Speaker 2: you know, fifty percent and fifteen percent say right, no problem,

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Speaker 2: may't but the party that gets the lowest number of

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Speaker 2: votes gets knocked out and all their preferences then start

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Speaker 2: to flow. So this guy will beat If he's on

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Speaker 2: fifteen percent, he has beaten the Greens, he will beat

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Speaker 2: the Greens. Let's say that get about ten percent right now,

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Speaker 2: the Greens, all those preferences will flow to the Muslim

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Speaker 2: vote before they go to the Labor Party. So you

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Speaker 2: knock out the Greens. Suddenly this guy goes from being

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Speaker 2: on fifteen to twenty percent to being on twenty five

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Speaker 2: to thirty percent right now, that would put him ahead

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Speaker 2: of the Liberal Party candidate. And this is where things

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Speaker 2: get really interesting. So if the Liberals are doing a

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Speaker 2: preference deal, if they're putting labor last and putting the

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Speaker 2: Muslim vote ahead of the Labor Party on their how

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Speaker 2: to vote card. Then someone who is just filling out

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Speaker 2: their ballot looking at the Liberal I'm a Liberal voter.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to vote the way they tell me to.

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Speaker 2: They're just going to look at that card and they're

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Speaker 2: going to fill it out the way that the Liberal

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Speaker 2: Party how to vote card tells them to. And here's

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Speaker 2: the kicker, because the Muslim vote is not a party,

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Speaker 2: it's just a movement.

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Speaker 3: Like the deals just moves in the breeze.

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Speaker 2: There's not any identification that this guy is from the

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Speaker 2: Muslim vote. So if you're a Liberal voter, you think,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, like mating with the Liberal Party. I'm not

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Speaker 2: too sure about these crazy Muslims though. Well, A, you

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Speaker 2: probably shouldn't be living in bunch bowl or looking at

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Speaker 2: but B you're not going to know that this guy

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Speaker 2: is from the Muslim vote. So even if you're aware

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Speaker 2: that there's some kind of controversy about these guys, or

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Speaker 2: you're not too comfortable about, you know, a solely religiously

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Speaker 2: affiliated movement or a movement that's all about it overseas

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Speaker 2: foreign conflict. Running for the Australian Parliament on that platform,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to see that. You're just going to

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Speaker 2: see this guy's name. So if you're following the Liberal

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Speaker 2: how to vote card, there's going to be nothing on

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Speaker 2: the how to vote card and nothing on the ballot

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Speaker 2: paper that actually even tells you this guy is from

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Speaker 2: them was a vote, so you're just going to fill

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Speaker 2: it out, right. So if you're just filling out your

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Speaker 2: ballot paper the way that the how to vote card

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Speaker 2: tells you to, your preferences also flow to this guy.

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Speaker 2: So first he picks up the Greens, then he picks

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Speaker 2: up the Liberals, as long as he stays ahead. Then

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Speaker 2: suddenly this guy's on like fifty percent of the vote,

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Speaker 2: and it's fifty to fifty. It's neck and neck with

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Speaker 2: Tony Burke, the Home Affairs Minister. And this could potentially

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Speaker 2: happen in other seats as well. But this is just

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Speaker 2: an example of what's happening with their most high profile target.

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Speaker 2: And this is what the Liberal Party is doing. This

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Speaker 2: is what they are actually engineering. They are in talks,

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Speaker 2: they are talking to these guys. It hasn't quite the

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Speaker 2: deal hasn't quite been sealed, but I'm told by every

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Speaker 2: involved and No one has denied this. No one has

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Speaker 2: denied this, all the kerfuffle, all the text messages. I've

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Speaker 2: been told that Liberals are even offering to help the

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Speaker 2: Labor Party because they're so worried about this going ahead.

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Speaker 2: But no one is denying it. No one's saying, oh no,

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Speaker 2: that's not happening. Peter Dutton himself has said that it's

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Speaker 2: a matter for the party. It's a matter for the party.

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Speaker 2: It's a matter for the party that the party he

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Speaker 2: leads is doing deals to put someone in parliament who

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Speaker 2: he says has no place in the parliament. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: but that's not my I'm I'm just the leader of

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Speaker 2: the coalition. That's you know, I'm just the leader of

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party. Those preference deals, that's a matter for

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Speaker 2: the party, don't really check out. So again, I have

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Speaker 2: no beef with any of the parties involved. Got a

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Speaker 2: bit of a soft spot for Tony Burke. I have

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Speaker 2: to say he's a good guy, but a do we

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Speaker 2: really want in this country? And again, there are Christian

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Speaker 2: parties that have been around, the Christian Democrats and Family

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Speaker 2: First and the Democratic Labor Parties split from the Labor

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Speaker 2: Party because it was being infested by communists and they

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Speaker 2: are all Catholics. And you know, so there's been religious

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Speaker 2: elements in political parties in Australia since Australia existed. But

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Speaker 2: do we really want a party or a movement that

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Speaker 2: is solely focused on whose side you take in a

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Speaker 2: conflict that's incredibly ancient and complex taking place on the

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Speaker 2: other side of the world, and having that as their

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Speaker 2: metric for whether or not you should be worthy of,

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Speaker 2: you know, support or annihilation, because that's what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: They're saying they rate all the Labor MPs on how

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Speaker 2: fiercely they have been in support of Palestine and if

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Speaker 2: they haven't been fiercely so stive enough and spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: none of them have been fiercely supportive enough, apparently, then

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Speaker 2: they have to be killed politically, not literally, but they

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Speaker 2: have to be knocked off so that they are targeting

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Speaker 2: They are putting labor last in any seat that they

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Speaker 2: think they can win where the labor candidate has not

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Speaker 2: been strong enough on Palestine. And guess what, none of

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Speaker 2: them are strong enough on Palestine. Because there will never

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Speaker 2: be a position strong enough on Palestine that a mainstream

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Speaker 2: political party can take that will satisfy them and got

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Speaker 2: out of it. So firstly, the question is do we

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Speaker 2: want that in our politics, do we want that in

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Speaker 2: our parliament. Let's let the people decide. But secondly, the

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Speaker 2: idea that you have a coalition that is branded around

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Speaker 2: being tough on national security, that opposed Palestinian refugees even

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Speaker 2: coming to this country in the wake of the conflict,

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Speaker 2: that has said that it is in lockstep with the

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Speaker 2: Jewish community, that it said that it absolutely one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent supports the state of Israel, and even as we speak,

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Speaker 2: going around spouting an anti Semitic action plan, and it

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Speaker 2: is doing a preference deal with these guys. It is

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Speaker 2: helping to get these guys into the parliament secretly, covertly

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Speaker 2: on the quiet, while at the same time spouting all

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Speaker 2: this stuff about how they're all in with the Jewish community,

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Speaker 2: all in with Israel. This is bonkers. This is bonkers.

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Speaker 2: And I swear to God, if they get away with

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Speaker 2: this stuff, democracy is dead. And now just for a

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Speaker 2: change of pace, just to get back to reality, get

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Speaker 2: back to sanity, get back to normality. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: Donald trumb Now there is no World War three just yet.

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Speaker 2: Just look, we don't know. By the time this goes

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Speaker 2: to air, maybe there will be World War three. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to get your hopes up, but who knows.

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Speaker 2: But we do look like we are going to miss

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Speaker 2: out on our exemption from steel and aluminium tariffs. And

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Speaker 2: never has steal an aluminium tariffs sounded so sexy. I

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Speaker 2: think you'll agree. So for anyone who missed it, Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump came out a few weeks ago and said, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to put tariffs on everybody. Every country in the

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Speaker 2: world is going to have to pay I think twenty

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Speaker 2: five percent tariff on any exports they have to America.

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Speaker 2: So this involves Australia obviously, because Australia is a country

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Speaker 2: and is applied to all countries. But thankfully, as revealed

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Speaker 2: on this podcast, the Prime Minister already had a phone

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Speaker 2: call scheduled twenty four hours after this announcement was made.

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Speaker 2: So it was incredibly fortuitous, incredibly lucky Kevin Rudd and

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Speaker 2: the US embassy and the PM and the PM's office

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Speaker 2: had set up this phone call to talk to Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: and this phone call was scheduled just a day after

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Speaker 2: this announcement was made, and so Albow and Trump get

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Speaker 2: on the phone. It goes for longer than expected. It

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Speaker 2: was very very friendly. Everyone's going, this is awesome. And then,

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Speaker 2: of course, as happens or can, hell breaks loose like

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Speaker 2: just everything just a shit storm of just enormous proportions

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Speaker 2: and omni shambles. Right, So Australia of course comes out

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Speaker 2: in support of Ukraine and Zelensky, as we should, because

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Speaker 2: any sane person supports Ukraine and only crazy conspiracy theorists

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Speaker 2: on Twitter support Vladimir Putin. That probably isn't the best

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Speaker 2: look in the world. Trump probably gets a bit cross

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Speaker 2: that we're not all falling into line. But instead of

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Speaker 2: saying actually, no, we're probably not going to go all

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Speaker 2: the way with Ladmir Putin, I think maybe, you know,

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Speaker 2: we might just we might go more sort of more

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Speaker 2: Instagram and less Twitter on this one. And then Malcolm

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Speaker 2: Turnbull says, hold my beer. So Malcolm Turnbull, who let

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Speaker 2: me check my notes, is not the Prime Minister of

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Speaker 2: Australia anymore. In fact, he's about two ago, comes out

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Speaker 2: and has a crack at Donald Trump and calls him,

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Speaker 2: you know, chaotic and erratic and all this stuff. In

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Speaker 2: an interview with Bloomberg TV, ex prime ministers. They'd always

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Speaker 2: suffer from a bit of relevance deprivation syndrome. You put

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Speaker 2: a camera in front of them, they'll say especially and

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Speaker 2: this is a guarantee, this is true of all all people.

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Speaker 2: A foreign camera. So you say, I'm from Bloomberg, I'm

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Speaker 2: from you know, I'm from America. Oh yeah, yeah, Hi,

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Speaker 2: I'm from the Bloomberg Subprime podcast. Hey yeah, America. To

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Speaker 2: just say, oh man, that's it, I'm going international. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: So he gives this interview and says that Trump is

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Speaker 2: chaotic and erratic or whatever, and you know what, guess what, Malcolm, We.

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Speaker 3: Know, we know. Look, you're a smart guy. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're a smart country. Everyone everyone knows that he's chaotic

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Speaker 3: and erratic. You don't need to go around saying it,

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Speaker 3: and you don't need to go around saying it publicly

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Speaker 3: at a time when we're trying to get a trade

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Speaker 3: deal with this chaotic and erratic person. What do you

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Speaker 3: think a chaotic and erratic person is going to do

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Speaker 3: in the middle of a trade negotiation when you've just

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Speaker 3: called him chaotic and erratic. I think he's probably going

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Speaker 3: to do something chaotic and erratic. So anyway, Trump, as usual,

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Speaker 3: just does what he does.

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Speaker 2: He spokes has come out and said nap, there'll be

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Speaker 2: no there'll be no exemption, there'll be no there'll be

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Speaker 2: no carve out for Australia. And that is in a

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Speaker 2: sense not entirely surprising. Now, we did actually get a

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Speaker 2: carve out from these tariffs, and that was surprise surprise

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Speaker 2: under Malcolm Turnbull's Prime ministership. And it took nine months

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Speaker 2: for us to get that carve out as opposed to

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Speaker 2: the month that we have right now. And you know

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Speaker 2: how we got that carve out. Malcolm Turnbull sucked up

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Speaker 2: to Donald Trump. He did the exact opposite of what

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Speaker 2: we've got to stand up to boys, he told the

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Speaker 2: ABC and then he said, what are you opposing my

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Speaker 2: right to free speech? Said no, Malcolm, we're just opposing

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Speaker 2: you're right to stupid speech. I guess it's just not

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Speaker 2: helping I declare that. But Malcolm turml he got a

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Speaker 2: great deal with Trump on the refugee resettlement, and Trump

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Speaker 2: famously got very angry in his phone call with Malcolm

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Speaker 2: Turmill said, fine, I'll do it, even though it's a

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Speaker 2: stupid deal. Stupid deal. Shouldn't have signed it. But whatever,

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Speaker 2: he'll honor it. And then we got the carve out

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Speaker 2: thanks to Joe Hockey in the US as ambassador, and

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Speaker 2: he worked everything. Greg Norman was probably involved and he

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Speaker 2: managed to get the carve out, but it took a

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Speaker 2: very long time. And throughout and after that process, Malcolm

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Speaker 2: Turmer was there smiling, shaking Donald Trump's hands, saying what

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Speaker 2: a great job he done. It was you know, well,

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Speaker 2: it's embarrassing to watch, but that's the whole point of

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Speaker 2: anyone doing deals with Donald Trump. It's always embarrassing to watch.

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Speaker 2: It would have been embarrassing for Zelenski to just sit

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Speaker 2: there and smile and say thank you very much and

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Speaker 2: accept whatever aid he could get, and maybe ask for

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Speaker 2: a bit more and tell Donald Trump what a great

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Speaker 2: job he was doing and how much he appreciated his

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Speaker 2: support and your crate. It would have been embarrassing to watch.

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Speaker 2: But guess what, it also would have worked. It also

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Speaker 2: many would have been able to sign the deal, get

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Speaker 2: back to Kiev, defend his nation, still have US support

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Speaker 2: now that support has been put on hold. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: sometimes it is a bit embarrassing to do things you

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Speaker 2: don't want to do. Sometimes it is a bit awkward.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't get to say all the things you

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Speaker 2: really want to say, even if they are true, because

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Speaker 2: you're putting the national interest first. But what actually is

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Speaker 2: the national interest when it comes to these steals terariffs. Well,

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Speaker 2: one of the things that Donald Trump wants everybody to

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Speaker 2: do is increase their defense spending. He's sick of America

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Speaker 2: basically being the world's army and having to come and

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Speaker 2: provide all the sweet stuff, all the missiles and the

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Speaker 2: planes and all the nice hardware to all these countries

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Speaker 2: that aren't actually paying for their own military, aren't actually

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Speaker 2: keeping up their military as much as the US is.

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Speaker 2: And on big example of this is obviously in Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: where Europe has as a percentage of its GDP far

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Speaker 2: lower military spending than the US does, and they think, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: we don't have to spend all our money because the

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Speaker 2: US is just going to come to right. And this

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Speaker 2: is a real bugbear for Trump and a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of Republicans in the US, and they kind of sort

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Speaker 2: of have a point. And in Australia the same thing

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Speaker 2: is happening. We spend about two bit over two percent

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Speaker 2: GDP on the military, and that ends up being about

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Speaker 2: last over fifty billion dollars a year. And our still

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Speaker 2: exports to the US, yes, about four hundred million dollars

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Speaker 2: a year. So if the US slaps a twenty five

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Speaker 2: percent tariff on our steel exports, for example, that suddenly

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Speaker 2: makes that cost five hundred million with an M dollars

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Speaker 2: a year. And what the US wants us to do,

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Speaker 2: if maybe we're going to get some kind of special

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Speaker 2: treatment or exemption, is increase our military spending from two

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Speaker 2: to three percent of our GDP, which is an increase

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Speaker 2: of about fifty percent, which would mean back of the

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Speaker 2: beer coaster solely, but taking it from a bit over

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Speaker 2: fifty billion dollars a year to a bit over seventy

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Speaker 2: five or eighty billion dollars a year. And look, I'm

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Speaker 2: just an art student, but one hundred million dollars with

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Speaker 2: an M extra that the US would have to pay

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Speaker 2: for our steel exports on top of a four hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars with an M export market for our steel

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Speaker 2: to the US, compared to an extra twenty five to

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Speaker 2: thirty billion dollars with a B that we would have

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Speaker 2: to spend on our army. That kind of doesn't really

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Speaker 2: add up. So a little fun fat. I'm in a

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Speaker 2: WhatsApp group with a bunch of journo mates from different

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Speaker 2: walks of life, different mastertheads, and one of them this

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Speaker 2: week posted a pick of The Australian's front page about

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Speaker 2: how the infamous Caravan of terror in fact seemed to

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Speaker 2: be not a genuine, kind of real and present terrorist

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Speaker 2: threat against the Jewish community, but was in fact this

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Speaker 2: kind of elaborate hoax set up by I somewhat ham

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Speaker 2: fisted organized crime tips from overseas, and they were like,

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Speaker 2: oh ah ah, look see, look at this thing. And

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Speaker 2: it was then that the terrible, terrible, terrible truth dawned

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Speaker 2: on me, and it shook me to my core. I

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Speaker 2: have to say that it was very clear to me

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Speaker 2: at that moment in time that my friends did not

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Speaker 2: subscribe to this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Because if they did, they would have known this a

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Speaker 1: month ago, more than a month ago, because we spoke

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Speaker 1: to the chief reporter of the Daily Telegraph, the guy

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Speaker 1: who actually broke this story, about the various possibilities of

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Speaker 1: where this caravan laden with explosives could have come from

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Speaker 1: and who would be behind it, and he told us

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Speaker 1: this right here in this very studio more than a

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Speaker 1: month ago, on the sixth of February twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very proud to say that he joins me

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Speaker 1: again right now, josh Hanrahan, Welcome back to the Real Story.

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Speaker 2: How are you, Joe.

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Speaker 4: I'm good, I'm good. Thanks for having me again, mate.

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Speaker 2: It is an absolute pleasure. I really wanted to get

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Speaker 2: you on because this is actually, I mean, it's a

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Speaker 2: huge story. It's almost as big now that we're sort

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Speaker 2: of uncovering this elaborate ruse that various shadowy criminal identities

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Speaker 2: have gone to to set up this fake terror plot.

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Speaker 2: But it's just an amazing story. It gets bigger and

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Speaker 2: bigger and deeper and deeper. And you actually revealed on

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Speaker 2: this podcast over a month ago that it could have

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Speaker 2: been a police informer, a criminal who was a police informer,

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Speaker 2: setting up this ridiculously elaborate plot so he could then

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Speaker 2: reveal it to police and receive a discount on the

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Speaker 2: prison sentence he was serving. You actually had this on

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Speaker 2: your radar five weeks ago.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, I've just answered your question that I've just asked it.

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Speaker 5: Let me know when you need me if you need Yeah, look,

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Speaker 5: it was I'd love to take all the credit, but

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Speaker 5: it was flagged pretty early on by police. When we

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Speaker 5: first broke the story that a caravan had been found

431
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 5: filled with explosives at dural Mark Mark Murray, my colleague

432
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: and I on January twenty nine. We wrote in that

433
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 5: story a comment from a police source which said that

434
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 5: it just didn't make sense, it could possibly be a setup.

435
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 5: And so whilst that night, when police and Premier christ

436
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 5: minteld a press conference, they spoke about the fact that

437
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 5: terror was a very serious threat and they were taking

438
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 5: it at its highest, which they had to do because

439
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 5: you can't you can't take this at its lowest.

440
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 4: You can't think, oh, that's just a setup.

441
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: We won't probably they're probably not going to blow it

442
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: up next, probably not going to blow up the Jewish Museum.

443
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: So let's just, you know, let's just go and arrest

444
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 2: this pickpocket.

445
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, but even that night, Dave Hudson said that at

446
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 5: that press that there was a possibility that this was

447
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 5: somebody looking for assistance. As we just explained, it happens

448
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 5: a lot. I don't think I've ever seen anything on

449
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 5: this scale. I don't think anyone's ever seen anything on

450
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 5: this scale. And the thought that it wasn't just this caravan,

451
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 5: that potentially some of these other graffiti, fire bombing, anti

452
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 5: Semitic attacks that we've seen across Sydney were similarly part

453
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 5: of that ploy to build tensions up to a point

454
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 5: where that if they did have a caravan filled with

455
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 5: explosives out a Durrill, that it would be so big

456
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: that police had had to act and give them potentially

457
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 5: a major discount on their sentence.

458
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: And this is this sort of extraordinary thing, isn't it,

459
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: Because there's a thought and the AFP have sort of

460
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: flagged this and this may be well, I can pretty

461
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: much say that it is because I've spoken to some

462
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: people involved. But this is why you had this bizarre

463
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: scenario where the New South Wales Police had escalated it

464
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: and raised it with the Premiere. The AFP did not

465
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: take this threat as seriously, which is why they didn't

466
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: tell the Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi, which is why he

467
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: was being And what did you know about this terror threat? Primes?

468
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: Why didn't you know? And it's actually clear to me

469
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: that the AFP and possibly even the New South Wales Police,

470
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: if you hadn't gone to them and you it hadn't

471
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: come to your attention. They had not. The AFP had said, right,

472
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 2: we're not going to bother the PM with this, which

473
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: they should have, whereas the New South Wales Police clearly

474
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: thought that this was something that at least needed to

475
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 2: be flagged with the premium.

476
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 4: There's actually varying opinions on that. I know.

477
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 5: The other day when the AFP and you Saws Police

478
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 5: jointly addressed the media to say that this was a

479
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: criminal conjob, Christy Barrett, wh's the AFP Deputy Commissioner, said

480
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 5: that they knew almost immediately was her phrase, that this

481
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 5: wasn't a terrorism.

482
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 2: Incident, which is why they didn't brief the PM on it.

483
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 5: Sources have told Mark Moury and I that that's not

484
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 5: potentially accurate. That they seem to think that the AFP

485
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 5: was treating it as a terrorism threat for a bit

486
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 5: longer than that.

487
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 4: People have also said.

488
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 5: People have also said Usile's police, as you said, for

489
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 5: we're the ones treating it as a terrorism threat.

490
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 4: Who knows where the truth lies.

491
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 5: But what is a fact, and what has been a

492
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 5: fact for a number of years now is that relations

493
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 5: between the AFP and Newsile's Police, while on the surface

494
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 5: at a press conference in front of all the media's cameras,

495
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 5: are you know, hunky dory behind the scenes that they're

496
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 5: certainly far from it, although on counter terrorism when it

497
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 5: comes to fighting terrorism, they have often been very harmonious.

498
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 4: They walking towards a similar.

499
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 5: Goal on other topics like yeah, it is, that's important

500
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 5: to know, but on an organized crime and some other things,

501
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 5: there have been some clashing of heads, shall we say,

502
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 5: over the years.

503
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, certainly, and you've got much more impressive sources

504
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 2: than me, but I've heard the same thing. The other

505
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: interesting thing is that clearly, and this is why it's

506
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: so not only do you have this ridiculously elaborate plot

507
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: and again we've got a caravan packed full of explosives

508
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: with Jewish targets written on notes, the Holocaust Museum or

509
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: the Great Synagogue. You've got this all set up, and

510
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: yet they don't put a detonator in it, which is strange.

511
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: And they've also seems to be similar criminal elements behind

512
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: other anti Semitic attacks, as you say, which give legitimacy

513
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: to the caravan plot. But also you have actual anti

514
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: Semitic attacks going on in the community, which clearly have

515
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: given the idea for these guys say, right, we can

516
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: ride this wave and do our and plant our own

517
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: kind of attacks in the middle of these real attacks,

518
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: which again will make them look legitimate. I mean, it's

519
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: from what I've been able to gather. For example, you

520
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: know the attacks in New South Wales, they seem to

521
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: have had these sort of criminal elements behind it, or

522
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: police believe so. But the fire bombing attack on the

523
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: synagogue in Melbourne, for example, seems to have been a

524
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: legitimate thing that happened for real, which they were not

525
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: involved in. So you've got these sort of two parallel

526
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: attacks on Jewish Australians, one of which one type of

527
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: which is completely real and actually happening, which is then

528
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: inspiring these sort of fake attacks, if you like that,

529
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: are being orchestrated by criminals overseas. It's incredibly bizarre and complex,

530
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: isn't it.

531
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

532
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 5: I think with the Sydney one, with the caravan, I'd

533
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 5: be a terrible cop because I see things like this

534
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 5: and I often think some of the schemes that criminals

535
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 5: come up with, and they go, geez, that's pretty smart. Yeah,

536
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 5: there's a bit of genius in that I'm almost almost impressed.

537
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: Two.

538
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 5: You know, as you say, there's obviously there are some

539
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 5: instance in that they are looking at as being legitimate

540
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 5: anti Semitic attacks, and then there are these other ones

541
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 5: that they've seized on that and built it up, and

542
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 5: then they've you know, dropped this caravan out there. I

543
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 5: think it's as I said before, it's quite interesting. You know,

544
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 5: on the first day that someone said, this doesn't just

545
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: this just doesn't add up. Why would you leave it

546
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 5: on the side of a road at Dural, of all places,

547
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 5: if anyone like you know, it's in amongst some paddocks

548
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 5: and whatnot.

549
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: Dural is not known as a kind of you know,

550
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: a central sort of hub of the Jewish community.

551
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: No, it was parked on you know, if you can

552
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 5: picture a bitchman road with a bit to the side

553
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 5: where I think there's a graveyard and there's a bit

554
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 5: of a decent amount of gravel to kind of park

555
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 5: it on, like any country road. So and then you

556
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 5: go to Melbourne and look, there's some talk about the

557
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 5: fact that that may.

558
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 4: Have been some some gangs.

559
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 5: I don't know to what end they potentially carried that out,

560
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 5: But the whole situation is bizarre. As you said, it's

561
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 5: it's potentially genius, but to the point in the end,

562
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 5: it's it's obviously gone nowhere, which is a good thing

563
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 5: for everyone.

564
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: It's a very good thing for everybody, I think. And

565
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: the other thing, the other sort of red flag that

566
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: we talked about a bit over a month ago, is

567
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 2: why you would have your target if written on a

568
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: note in the you know, in case you forgot, where

569
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: are we bombing again? It's, oh, it's the Great Synagogue. Oh,

570
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: like I had it written down, like if you're gonna

571
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, like I'm pretty sure that the you know,

572
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: if a terrorist is going to blow somewhere up, they

573
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: don't need it. They don't need to put it in

574
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: Google Maps. They know what they're doing.

575
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 5: It as a highly unusual from modern day terror plot,

576
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 5: I would have thought, yeah.

577
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: It's exactly right. And yet and yet again this is happening,

578
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: and this is this is criminals exploiting sort of real

579
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: life anti Semitism and real life threats that are happening

580
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: in the community. And also these are often gangs. I mean,

581
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 2: we know, we know the ISIS, for example, recruited a

582
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: lot of it's it's terrorists from from biker gangs from

583
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: biker gangs with you know, extreme Islamist links.

584
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. This is.

585
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 5: I think there's always the one thing police will always

586
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 5: say is that no matter if it's drugs, alcohol, illegal tobacco,

587
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 5: any kind of product, any way to make a buck,

588
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 5: any way, to get anything that they think will benefit them,

589
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 5: organized criminals will get involved in it.

590
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: It's badness. Anything bad they'll do.

591
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 4: They they're addicted to badness. That's badness.

592
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: Well, Josh Hanrah, congratulations on just cracking and continuing to

593
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: stay on top of this incredible yarn. And thank you

594
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: for revealing the real nature of it here a bit

595
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: over a month ago before it ended up on the

596
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: front page everywhere else. And good on you mate.

597
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 4: Pleasure Joe anytime, and that is.

598
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: All we have time for this week. Thanks so much

599
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: for your company. My Instagram account has still been hacked

600
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: and I can't even get into it. If you can

601
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: see what's going on, let me know. Give me an

602
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: email at the Real Story at Novapodcasts dot com dot

603
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 2: au and tell me if I posted any good content recently,

604
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: any good pictures. You can always just leaves a rating

605
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: or a review on the site. Where you access your podcasts.

606
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: We will only be accepting five star ratings and positive reviews,

607
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: and of course you can read whatever I have to

608
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: say on pretty much anything in the universe in all

609
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: the newspapers, all the time, every Monday and Saturday, although

610
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: for the next week or two I think it's every

611
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: Tuesday or Saturday. It's just too confusing. You know where

612
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: I am, you know where to find me. Even I'm

613
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: sick of me, you can't get away from me, and

614
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 2: you can come back and hear me again next week.

615
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: See then,