1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,000 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,050 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Every day, we're talking about what's happened in the 3 00:00:09,050 --> 00:00:11,959 Sean Aylmer: US. Our markets frequently take their lead from Wall Street, 4 00:00:12,270 --> 00:00:14,970 Sean Aylmer: and the political decisions made in the states that ripple 5 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:18,730 Sean Aylmer: out around the world. I wanted to get an update 6 00:00:18,730 --> 00:00:21,230 Sean Aylmer: on what's happening on the ground there, the fallout from 7 00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:24,800 Sean Aylmer: the withdrawal from Afghanistan, how Americans are adjusting to living 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,630 Sean Aylmer: with COVID, and what the huge amount of stimulus is 9 00:00:27,630 --> 00:00:31,330 Sean Aylmer: doing for the US economy. Of course, tomorrow marks the 10 00:00:31,350 --> 00:00:35,710 Sean Aylmer: 20th anniversary of the September 11 terror attacks. Matthew Knot 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,409 Sean Aylmer: is the United States correspondent for the Sydney Morning Herald 12 00:00:38,409 --> 00:00:40,979 Sean Aylmer: and The Age, and joins us this morning. Matthew, welcome 13 00:00:41,090 --> 00:00:41,740 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:42,010 --> 00:00:43,110 Matthew Knott: Hi, Sean. How's it going? 15 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,680 Sean Aylmer: Very well, thank you. Now, you wrote a great piece 16 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,269 Sean Aylmer: earlier this week about the 20th anniversary of September 11. What's 17 00:00:50,270 --> 00:00:54,310 Sean Aylmer: different between the US now compared to 20 years ago, 18 00:00:54,580 --> 00:00:56,280 Sean Aylmer: prior to September 11? 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,390 Matthew Knott: There are quite a few. The big thing I found 20 00:00:59,390 --> 00:01:03,360 Matthew Knott: looking back on that period after the September 11 attacks 21 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,709 Matthew Knott: was the type of rhetoric that was being used by 22 00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:10,230 Matthew Knott: George Bush, who was president then, the sense of what 23 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:14,440 Matthew Knott: America could achieve in the world in terms of spreading democracy. 24 00:01:14,750 --> 00:01:17,810 Matthew Knott: The attacks were not interpreted in a very narrow way 25 00:01:17,810 --> 00:01:20,459 Matthew Knott: about this is an attack from Al Qaeda, and here 26 00:01:20,459 --> 00:01:24,890 Matthew Knott: are the reasons, albeit terrible, why they did this. From 27 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:27,539 Matthew Knott: the very instant the attacks happened, it was interpreted as 28 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:31,200 Matthew Knott: an attack on liberty, and an expansive response was seen 29 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,319 Matthew Knott: as something that was called for, starting in Afghanistan, becoming 30 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,540 Matthew Knott: this big nation building program, and then extending into Iraq. 31 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:43,559 Matthew Knott: It's such a different atmosphere here in Washington now. I'd 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Matthew Knott: say the doves, the people who are calling for a 33 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,120 Matthew Knott: more restrained role for America, have a lot more influence here, 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,050 Matthew Knott: and you're seeing that through Joe Biden on Afghanistan. His 35 00:01:54,050 --> 00:01:58,240 Matthew Knott: approach is much more, what are our strict national security interests, 36 00:01:58,410 --> 00:02:00,770 Matthew Knott: rather than how do we create a world that looks 37 00:02:00,770 --> 00:02:03,250 Matthew Knott: more like America? Just the second thing I'd say is 38 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,139 Matthew Knott: just the level of division in the country. You saw 39 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,020 Matthew Knott: after 9/ 11 that George W. Bush's approval rating went 40 00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:14,299 Matthew Knott: up to 88%, and it stayed very high for several months. 41 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:17,730 Matthew Knott: It wasn't just the week after. Americans really came together 42 00:02:17,730 --> 00:02:21,410 Matthew Knott: for quite awhile. That seems to be impossible now. Even 43 00:02:21,410 --> 00:02:24,710 Matthew Knott: with a crisis like COVID, there's been no sense of 44 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,389 Matthew Knott: the nation coming together. Something like COVID has only torn 45 00:02:28,430 --> 00:02:32,870 Matthew Knott: conservatives and progressives further apart. So, there are two ways 46 00:02:32,870 --> 00:02:33,970 Matthew Knott: that the country's very different. 47 00:02:34,750 --> 00:02:36,960 Sean Aylmer: I lived in the US before 9/ 11 and immediately 48 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,639 Sean Aylmer: after 9/ 11, I thought that the country became a 49 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,980 Sean Aylmer: lot softer immediately after 9/ 11, and so this is the whole George 50 00:02:42,980 --> 00:02:48,620 Sean Aylmer: Bush unity bringing people together. So, what's happened since '06, '07, 51 00:02:49,270 --> 00:02:51,440 Sean Aylmer: then you had the Obama years, and then of course, 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,460 Sean Aylmer: Trump, that has caused it to become as divisive and 53 00:02:55,460 --> 00:03:00,889 Sean Aylmer: as anti many things, radical Islam, particularly, what's caused it 54 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:03,010 Sean Aylmer: to become so divisive over that period? 55 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,540 Matthew Knott: I think you'd have to look at the media diet 56 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:09,190 Matthew Knott: here and social media on top of that are two 57 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:12,380 Matthew Knott: of the really big things. I'm thinking back to 9/ 11, 58 00:03:12,910 --> 00:03:16,070 Matthew Knott: Fox News did exist then, but people were living in 59 00:03:16,070 --> 00:03:20,000 Matthew Knott: more of a mainstream media, six o'clock nightly news climate. 60 00:03:20,250 --> 00:03:24,500 Matthew Knott: Now living in completely different worlds, depending on the media 61 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,090 Matthew Knott: you consume. It's so much more about national politics rather 62 00:03:28,090 --> 00:03:31,620 Matthew Knott: than local politics. You add on the internet into that 63 00:03:31,650 --> 00:03:35,470 Matthew Knott: when you've got things like vaccines, now it's super controversial 64 00:03:35,470 --> 00:03:39,100 Matthew Knott: and super partisan, super polarised. Why is that? Well, it's 65 00:03:39,100 --> 00:03:44,220 Matthew Knott: because of all the nonsense and inaccurate things that people 66 00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:47,740 Matthew Knott: are getting through social media. So, I think that's a 67 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:49,350 Matthew Knott: big part of it. The other thing you'd have to 68 00:03:49,350 --> 00:03:54,620 Matthew Knott: look at is the economy now compared to 2000, 2001. Obviously, 69 00:03:54,620 --> 00:03:57,110 Matthew Knott: things weren't perfect then, but I think there was the sense 70 00:03:57,110 --> 00:03:58,920 Matthew Knott: that things were on the up, it was a good 71 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,600 Matthew Knott: time economically. Since then, you've seen the global financial crisis, 72 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:09,070 Matthew Knott: you've seen inequality widen, you've seen manufacturing just completely disappear 73 00:04:09,070 --> 00:04:12,990 Matthew Knott: to places like China. So, people just feel less secure. 74 00:04:12,990 --> 00:04:17,210 Matthew Knott: They feel less invested in the American dream. Even America 75 00:04:17,210 --> 00:04:19,670 Matthew Knott: is such a place that is so proud of itself 76 00:04:19,670 --> 00:04:23,380 Matthew Knott: and believes in American exceptionalism, believes that it's the best 77 00:04:23,380 --> 00:04:27,300 Matthew Knott: country in the world, and many Americans now don't believe that's true, 78 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:29,560 Matthew Knott: either from the right or the left. So, they're kind 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,100 Matthew Knott: of angry. 80 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:35,130 Sean Aylmer: What about the withdrawal from Afghanistan? How unpopular a war was 81 00:04:35,130 --> 00:04:38,680 Sean Aylmer: it by the end? Did Joe Biden make the right decision? 82 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,810 Matthew Knott: It was a very unpopular war by the end, but 83 00:04:42,810 --> 00:04:45,640 Matthew Knott: not unpopular in the sense that people were thinking about it. 84 00:04:45,830 --> 00:04:48,060 Matthew Knott: It wasn't something that was on the news. It wasn't 85 00:04:48,060 --> 00:04:50,890 Matthew Knott: something that was dominating daily lives. I think it was 86 00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:52,870 Matthew Knott: just a more feeling of why on earth are we 87 00:04:52,870 --> 00:04:55,500 Matthew Knott: still there 20 years later? What are we getting out 88 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:58,080 Matthew Knott: of this? Why are we spending money in the Middle 89 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,740 Matthew Knott: East when we could be spending it here in America 90 00:05:00,740 --> 00:05:05,520 Matthew Knott: or focusing on more contemporary challenges like China? So, opinion 91 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,680 Matthew Knott: polls do show that support for getting out of Afghanistan 92 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,930 Matthew Knott: was very high, but I think people were shocked by 93 00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:17,370 Matthew Knott: the images that came out by how quickly the Afghan 94 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:21,370 Matthew Knott: military and government collapsed. I think it was quite unsettling 95 00:05:21,370 --> 00:05:25,409 Matthew Knott: for people here given how much time and money and 96 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,650 Matthew Knott: lives have been lost over there, that it seemed to 97 00:05:28,700 --> 00:05:32,250 Matthew Knott: have added up to so little. It was definitely a 98 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:35,860 Matthew Knott: big blow for Biden. He had a pretty good run- 99 00:05:35,860 --> 00:05:38,640 Matthew Knott: up til then in terms of getting vaccines rolled out 100 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,300 Matthew Knott: and bringing America back onto the world stage after Trump. 101 00:05:42,300 --> 00:05:44,239 Matthew Knott: It had been pretty easy in a lot of ways 102 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,910 Matthew Knott: for him, and he didn't handle it well in terms 103 00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:52,410 Matthew Knott: of pulling off the withdrawal. Clearly the intelligence was very wrong. 104 00:05:52,460 --> 00:05:54,980 Matthew Knott: There's big questions to be asked why they didn't wait 105 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:58,440 Matthew Knott: for a little bit longer, not years, but to get 106 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,810 Matthew Knott: through that peak fighting season in Afghanistan. His communication was 107 00:06:02,810 --> 00:06:06,589 Matthew Knott: very bad through this crisis in Afghanistan. Some of the 108 00:06:06,589 --> 00:06:10,900 Matthew Knott: big days when Kabul fell, even when America actually withdrew, 109 00:06:11,220 --> 00:06:15,029 Matthew Knott: he wasn't visible. He didn't appear in public, and he 110 00:06:15,029 --> 00:06:18,480 Matthew Knott: wasn't very reassuring in terms of what he was saying. 111 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,099 Matthew Knott: He was very defensive in the way he was going 112 00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:23,720 Matthew Knott: about it. So, look, I think most Americans are still 113 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,089 Matthew Knott: glad to be out of Afghanistan, that people are not 114 00:06:26,089 --> 00:06:29,450 Matthew Knott: clamouring to send people back, but I think it was 115 00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:33,760 Matthew Knott: a big blow for Biden's sense of competence and his 116 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,159 Matthew Knott: sense of credibility. It's been a hit for him. 117 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,600 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Matthew, we'll be back in a minute. 118 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,180 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Matthew Knott, United States correspondent 119 00:06:47,180 --> 00:06:50,370 Sean Aylmer: for the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. You've also 120 00:06:50,370 --> 00:06:54,420 Sean Aylmer: written that the new threat is China, and galvanizing the 121 00:06:54,420 --> 00:06:56,900 Sean Aylmer: country around Australia is always a good thing for any leader. 122 00:06:57,210 --> 00:06:59,730 Sean Aylmer: It seems to be China and perhaps Russia, and cyber attacks, 123 00:06:59,730 --> 00:07:03,529 Sean Aylmer: to a lesser extent, and even perhaps nuclear proliferation. Tell 124 00:07:03,529 --> 00:07:04,080 Sean Aylmer: us about that. 125 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,080 Matthew Knott: China is definitely the big one that was looking back 126 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,320 Matthew Knott: at the language around the threat, the war on terror, 127 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,190 Matthew Knott: the threat of radical Islam back 20 years ago. That 128 00:07:15,190 --> 00:07:18,920 Matthew Knott: is the type of language that you see from politicians 129 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,120 Matthew Knott: here in Washington now, both Republican and Democrat, there is 130 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,490 Matthew Knott: an agreement that the geopolitical struggle with China is the 131 00:07:27,490 --> 00:07:31,890 Matthew Knott: big issue of the age. I think it is primarily 132 00:07:31,890 --> 00:07:36,150 Matthew Knott: right now an economic one. Big investments are going through 133 00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:41,090 Matthew Knott: Congress in terms of semiconductors, in terms of technology, in 134 00:07:41,090 --> 00:07:44,910 Matthew Knott: terms of 5G. There's a real sense that America has 135 00:07:44,910 --> 00:07:49,440 Matthew Knott: slipped in investment in these technologies of the 21st century, 136 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:52,740 Matthew Knott: and it's calling for a bigger role for government in 137 00:07:52,740 --> 00:07:55,740 Matthew Knott: that the private sector is not going to do it alone. 138 00:07:55,860 --> 00:07:59,080 Matthew Knott: Even many Republicans are on board with that who are 139 00:07:59,350 --> 00:08:03,680 Matthew Knott: coming from a Reaganite small government point of view, the 140 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,470 Matthew Knott: sense that America has to take on China in an 141 00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:10,500 Matthew Knott: assertive way is bi- partisan, it's one of the few bi- 142 00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:14,780 Matthew Knott: partisan issues here in Washington. Then you've got the military threat, 143 00:08:14,890 --> 00:08:16,970 Matthew Knott: which is, I think, a little bit more down the track, 144 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:20,010 Matthew Knott: but is looming there, the sense of if something was 145 00:08:20,010 --> 00:08:23,770 Matthew Knott: to flare up in Taiwan, would America or China win 146 00:08:23,910 --> 00:08:25,920 Matthew Knott: this war? It's not seen as a fait accompli by 147 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,240 Matthew Knott: any means that America would necessarily win. So, both sides 148 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,239 Matthew Knott: of politics galvanised by this. There are some people who warn, " 149 00:08:34,390 --> 00:08:37,440 Matthew Knott: Let's not blow this out of control. We don't want 150 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,290 Matthew Knott: to get ourselves into a war with China. Let's keep 151 00:08:41,290 --> 00:08:45,090 Matthew Knott: this practical and compete with them where we need to, 152 00:08:45,090 --> 00:08:49,300 Matthew Knott: but don't provoke them unnecessarily." But it's definitely going to 153 00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:52,400 Matthew Knott: be the big issue of the next 20 years, will 154 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,090 Matthew Knott: be the struggle between America and China, rather than what 155 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:57,360 Matthew Knott: we've seen over the past 20 years with the focus 156 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,219 Matthew Knott: on the Middle East. 157 00:08:58,270 --> 00:09:01,730 Sean Aylmer: Could it emerge as a cold war, something like Russia, 158 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:03,650 Sean Aylmer: America in the sixties, seventies, eighties? 159 00:09:04,370 --> 00:09:07,740 Matthew Knott: It's definitely going that way, and some people speak explicitly 160 00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:10,540 Matthew Knott: about that. I spoke to Rick Scott, who's a senator 161 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,429 Matthew Knott: from Florida, a Republican, very influential He says, we are 162 00:09:14,429 --> 00:09:18,120 Matthew Knott: in a new cold war with China, incredibly hardliner. He 163 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,950 Matthew Knott: wants to do things like boycott the Olympics that are 164 00:09:20,950 --> 00:09:23,700 Matthew Knott: coming up in Beijing, the winter Olympics and things like that, 165 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:27,950 Matthew Knott: and completely basically decouple the US from China. You see 166 00:09:27,950 --> 00:09:31,110 Matthew Knott: this in another way, Biden is organising, it's a little 167 00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:34,730 Matthew Knott: bit delayed, but he wants to organise this summit of democracies, 168 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,620 Matthew Knott: bringing democratic nations together in a loose Alliance to go 169 00:09:39,620 --> 00:09:44,510 Matthew Knott: up against countries like China and Russia. So, you can 170 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,020 Matthew Knott: see this sense of a new cold war developing in 171 00:09:49,020 --> 00:09:52,929 Matthew Knott: many ways. I think there's going to be many, many similarities. The difference 172 00:09:52,929 --> 00:09:55,140 Matthew Knott: would be, I think, from the old cold war is 173 00:09:55,150 --> 00:09:57,980 Matthew Knott: that the China and the US are more interconnected. It's 174 00:09:57,980 --> 00:10:01,380 Matthew Knott: more of a globalised economy. The two nations depend on 175 00:10:01,380 --> 00:10:04,850 Matthew Knott: each other more in terms of exporting and importing, which 176 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,309 Matthew Knott: would hopefully deter them from going to war against each other, 177 00:10:09,309 --> 00:10:11,720 Matthew Knott: given they depend on each other economically. 178 00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:14,699 Sean Aylmer: Matthew, you've written that America is now an angry and 179 00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:17,809 Sean Aylmer: more divided nation than it was 20 years ago. Can 180 00:10:17,809 --> 00:10:18,670 Sean Aylmer: that be fixed? 181 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:23,360 Matthew Knott: I don't see it going in a great direction right 182 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,210 Matthew Knott: now. We're not even in an election year this year, 183 00:10:27,550 --> 00:10:31,210 Matthew Knott: and there's still enormous divides here. You've got things like 184 00:10:31,429 --> 00:10:35,250 Matthew Knott: Texas, which is the second most populous state in the 185 00:10:35,250 --> 00:10:38,420 Matthew Knott: nation. Its population is about the same as Australia. They've 186 00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:43,990 Matthew Knott: just introduced these incredibly restrictive abortion laws, encouraging people to 187 00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:48,270 Matthew Knott: essentially act as law enforcement, private citizens. That's so different 188 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,150 Matthew Knott: from what is going on somewhere like New York or 189 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:54,589 Matthew Knott: California, the other big states, which are now becoming so 190 00:10:54,590 --> 00:10:58,829 Matthew Knott: progressive and have left wing governments. There's just different countries 191 00:10:58,830 --> 00:11:02,130 Matthew Knott: within the country here. You're going to have elections next 192 00:11:02,130 --> 00:11:06,110 Matthew Knott: year, and then leading up to 2024, whether Trump is 193 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:06,980 Matthew Knott: coming back. 194 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:08,530 Sean Aylmer: Is he? 195 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,550 Matthew Knott: This is the big question that everyone debates and trying 196 00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:14,270 Matthew Knott: to get inside Trump's head. 197 00:11:14,910 --> 00:11:16,290 Sean Aylmer: He's not even sure. 198 00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:19,110 Matthew Knott: I don't think he is personally sure and it would 199 00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:21,540 Matthew Knott: be in his interest to string it out for a 200 00:11:21,540 --> 00:11:25,220 Matthew Knott: little bit longer. My personal assumption is that he will, 201 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,820 Matthew Knott: particularly if he senses that Biden is weak, or if 202 00:11:28,820 --> 00:11:32,089 Matthew Knott: he could go up against Kamala Harris, then I don't 203 00:11:32,090 --> 00:11:34,440 Matthew Knott: see why he wouldn't do it. He's already created the 204 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,010 Matthew Knott: excuse for himself that if he loses it's because of 205 00:11:37,010 --> 00:11:40,040 Matthew Knott: fraud. So, he can just use that line again if 206 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,450 Matthew Knott: he was to lose, but he would win the nomination 207 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,740 Matthew Knott: if he wanted it. So, I personally think he will 208 00:11:46,740 --> 00:11:49,620 Matthew Knott: run. Some people think that he's just going to string 209 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:52,670 Matthew Knott: it along and then not, but that is going to be 210 00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:54,170 Matthew Knott: the big thing to watch in coming years. 211 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,500 Sean Aylmer: On the pandemic, about 65% of adult Americans have now 212 00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:00,380 Sean Aylmer: been fully vaccinated, which here in Australia, we'd be delighted at 213 00:12:00,380 --> 00:12:04,150 Sean Aylmer: that number. However, you wrote last month that the US 214 00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:06,470 Sean Aylmer: had a chance to crush COVID, but then it really 215 00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:09,180 Sean Aylmer: hit the anti- vax wall. What happened? 216 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:12,579 Matthew Knott: It is exactly that. I think it's not going to 217 00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:17,300 Matthew Knott: be too many months until Australia has overtaken America, which had, 218 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,439 Matthew Knott: up there with the UK and Israel, the earliest roll out 219 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,210 Matthew Knott: in the world. Some of these are American companies. The 220 00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:27,569 Matthew Knott: vaccines are being manufactured here at enormous scale. I can 221 00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:30,340 Matthew Knott: walk five minutes down the road from my house to 222 00:12:30,340 --> 00:12:34,660 Matthew Knott: a CVS chemist and get a vaccine for free. It's 223 00:12:34,660 --> 00:12:38,300 Matthew Knott: very easy. They've been widely available to the whole nation 224 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:41,960 Matthew Knott: since about May. Anyone who'd wanted to can get one 225 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,699 Matthew Knott: for free. But around that, Joe Biden set the target 226 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:48,900 Matthew Knott: of July 4 to have 70% of adults vaccinated, which 227 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:52,730 Matthew Knott: when he announced it seemed very possible, and he'd been 228 00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:55,150 Matthew Knott: exceeding every target he'd ever hit, and then it became 229 00:12:55,150 --> 00:12:57,809 Matthew Knott: clear that, oh, they're not going to get there. The 230 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,770 Matthew Knott: vaccine hesitancy, as it was called, which is really vaccine 231 00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:06,449 Matthew Knott: resistance and refusal, was strong. About a third of the 232 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:11,319 Matthew Knott: population does not want to get it. That's led to 233 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,770 Matthew Knott: this summer surge in infections and deaths. In places like Florida, 234 00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:19,590 Matthew Knott: it's worse than it's ever been, even though we're living 235 00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:23,520 Matthew Knott: in this vaccine era in terms of people dying, particularly 236 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,010 Matthew Knott: in the south. So, it's just has been disappointing. In 237 00:13:27,010 --> 00:13:29,350 Matthew Knott: many ways, life is very much back to normal. There's 238 00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:32,120 Matthew Knott: an emphasis on freedom here. The vaccines are there. If 239 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Matthew Knott: you want to get it, you can live pretty much freely. 240 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:38,069 Matthew Knott: But summer's just coming to an end here, and the fact 241 00:13:38,070 --> 00:13:41,330 Matthew Knott: that Delta has surged, school is going back, parents are 242 00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:45,190 Matthew Knott: really worried about their un- vaccinated kids at school. There's 243 00:13:45,190 --> 00:13:48,420 Matthew Knott: all these debates about should school kids be wearing masks? 244 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:52,699 Matthew Knott: It's just created this sense of frustration and a bit 245 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,640 Matthew Knott: of anger that things have not gone as well as 246 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:01,209 Matthew Knott: they should have given how freely available vaccines have been, 247 00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:04,760 Matthew Knott: and watching other countries in the world overtake America, it 248 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,610 Matthew Knott: has been a bit upsetting, really. 249 00:14:07,140 --> 00:14:10,020 Sean Aylmer: Just finally, Joe Biden this week's declared Americans that are 250 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:13,640 Sean Aylmer: experiencing a spate of global warming induced national disasters, Hurricane 251 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,150 Sean Aylmer: Ida being the latest example, where dozens of people were killed. 252 00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:20,460 Sean Aylmer: He's also travelling into Glasgow in November for the Climate Summit. 253 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,130 Sean Aylmer: It sounds like Joe Biden is really serious about climate change. 254 00:14:24,630 --> 00:14:27,030 Matthew Knott: Yes, he's very serious about this. It's also been a 255 00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:30,590 Matthew Knott: good way to change the conversation from Afghanistan, which wasn't 256 00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:34,150 Matthew Knott: going very well, but he is committed to climate change. 257 00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:37,880 Matthew Knott: I think the big question for the Biden administration and 258 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,310 Matthew Knott: America in this whole discussion is how are they going 259 00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:44,210 Matthew Knott: to deliver on the commitments that they've made? He had 260 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:48,040 Matthew Knott: a climate summit in April and he announced new, very 261 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:53,450 Matthew Knott: ambitious emissions reduction goals, much more ambitious than what Australia has announced, 262 00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:56,510 Matthew Knott: but how are they actually going to make it happen? 263 00:14:56,740 --> 00:15:01,130 Matthew Knott: Our Congress is incredibly gridlocked. Republicans don't want to do 264 00:15:01,130 --> 00:15:04,520 Matthew Knott: anything about reducing emissions in a meaningful way or taking 265 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,250 Matthew Knott: on things like coal. Even some Democrats like Joe Mansion, 266 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,970 Matthew Knott: they come from coal producing states, hard to get things 267 00:15:11,970 --> 00:15:15,380 Matthew Knott: like a carbon tax through Congress. That's not going to happen. So, 268 00:15:15,380 --> 00:15:17,640 Matthew Knott: the question is, how is Biden going to deliver on 269 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,290 Matthew Knott: his promises? I think the thing we're going to be looking for 270 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,970 Matthew Knott: is some big regulations that he can do through his agencies, 271 00:15:24,970 --> 00:15:28,650 Matthew Knott: essentially with the stroke of a pen, around vehicle emissions, 272 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:31,650 Matthew Knott: around old coal plants. That's what we're going to be 273 00:15:31,650 --> 00:15:35,420 Matthew Knott: looking for in the lead up to Glasgow, because otherwise, 274 00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:38,350 Matthew Knott: how can America lecture the rest of the world about 275 00:15:38,350 --> 00:15:41,380 Matthew Knott: what it's doing if all it's doing is setting theoretical 276 00:15:41,380 --> 00:15:42,761 Matthew Knott: targets that it's not going to meet? 277 00:15:42,761 --> 00:15:45,240 Sean Aylmer: Matthew, I reckon you're enjoying yourself in Washington. 278 00:15:45,790 --> 00:15:47,440 Matthew Knott: Oh, it's a lot of fun. Yeah. 279 00:15:47,830 --> 00:15:50,300 Sean Aylmer: You always enjoy yourself. You enjoyed yourself in Canberra. I 280 00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:53,050 Sean Aylmer: know that. But a big difference between the two? 281 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,739 Matthew Knott: Yeah. Washington is a little bit bigger, a little more lively 282 00:15:57,740 --> 00:16:00,560 Matthew Knott: as much, as I enjoyed as much as I enjoy Canberra. 283 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:03,850 Matthew Knott: But then again, it is dangerous. This is America. People 284 00:16:03,850 --> 00:16:08,100 Matthew Knott: get shot quite regularly, even near where I live. That 285 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,120 Matthew Knott: side of it is not something that I would want 286 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,850 Matthew Knott: to be imported to Australia. The kind of gun crime 287 00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:15,830 Matthew Knott: that is very normalised here is pretty disturbing. 288 00:16:16,070 --> 00:16:18,080 Sean Aylmer: Keep doing what you're doing, Matthew. Thank you for talking 289 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:18,850 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 290 00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:20,140 Matthew Knott: Thanks so much for having me. 291 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,820 Sean Aylmer: That was Matthew Knott, US correspondent for the Sydney Morning 292 00:16:22,820 --> 00:16:24,980 Sean Aylmer: Herald and The Age. This is the Fear and Greed 293 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:27,500 Sean Aylmer: Daily Interview. Join me every morning for the full Fear 294 00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:30,010 Sean Aylmer: and Greed podcast, with all the business news you need 295 00:16:30,010 --> 00:16:32,330 Sean Aylmer: to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.