WEBVTT - #2055 WTF Is Anxiety Anyway? - Dr. Jodi Richardson 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:03.480 I get a turnacy you project. Doctor Jody's back in 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:05.720 the house. Bloody hell. I get so excited when she comes. 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.760 I can't sleep the night before, tossing and turning, throwing 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:10.680 the doner all over the joint. I was up at 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.000 three pacing just trying to get all my questions ready, 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.320 trying to clear my mind, trying to be focused, thinking, Fuck, 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.479 how can I harness the brain power that is doctor Jody, 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:27.479 or as I call her, Joctor Dody. And I'm so 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.760 excited she's here. Hi, Doc, how are you hey? 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.320 Hello? High Harves, Hi Tiv. I'm excited to be here too. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.360 I love it. I love chatting with you guys. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.960 Well, we love it when you come along, Tiffany and Cook. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.320 Of course, the backbone, the fucking blood that throws flows 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.560 through the how's my words going this morning? Not that good? 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.040 The blood that flows through the typ veins? High Cookie, 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:50.559 how are you? 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:51.520 Ah? 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:51.640 Some? 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:52.280 Very good? 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:52.720 Thank you. 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.320 I just put my teeth back in and soldier on. Yeah, 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.600 that's what I do. Fuck it, there's no do overs here, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:06.199 there's none of that. Well, I'm looking out the window. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.959 It's nine point forty four on Wednesday morning. On twenty 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.679 sixth in November and it's pouring in Melbourne. It's like, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.600 I feel like I may have to build myself an 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.679 arc out of the bamboo in my yard at some 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:23.120 stage if it continues that it's current, right, that bitch 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.360 is torrential. Is it raining where you are? Tip? 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.960 Yeah, it just started. When we hopped on the podcast, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:30.840 I was like, Oh my god, what's happening. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:31.840 It's very loud at my hair. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:33.559 I have a loud roof when it rains. 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.000 What about in your penthouse in Tuac, doctor Jody? Is 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:38.160 it raining there? 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.280 I wish? Yeah, it's raining. It is raining here. It 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:44.120 sure is. 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.760 Oh well, I bet everyone's just fucking enthralled with this conversation. Wow, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.000 this is why I tuned in. 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.440 Can I say I want to I want to say 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.560 something that I was reading something not so long ago, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.520 because you know how when people you sort of talk 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.800 to people and they might say, how's the weather or 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.320 it's been you know, it's a good days, isn't it, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.840 And that a lot of people will kind of like 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.040 feel like, oh no, not the weather conversation, but that 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.440 it's a it's a bid for connection that when when 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.239 somebody kind of like says that they're not quite sure 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.440 what else to say, and they're trying to connect with you, 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.840 And so now I lean into these conversations about the weather. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.560 If someone raises that when they're chatting to me, I'm like, yes, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.920 I know, like and I'll just dive right in and 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.280 then usually the conversation moves away reasonably quickly. But I 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.639 thought it was a nice way to think about it. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.640 It's a nice little eyes breaker. It's a nice little 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.520 kind of opening of the conversational door, isn't it. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.640 Yeah? Yeah, And look what we've done today. We've done it. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.000 We've done it ourselves. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.359 Yes, and the four people that are still listening are 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:50.040 fucking just deriveted. So I want to we haven't actually 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:51.799 done this for a while. I want to talk a 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:57.320 little bit about anxiety. And I know we've in the past, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.359 we've had quite a few chats, but I feel like 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.399 it's probably been the best part of a year where 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:06.320 we've had we've done an episode on this. And the 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.000 reason for this is we yesterday did a gig in 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.799 the city with Aria, the Aria Group, and I spoke 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.000 to two people come up and came up and spoke 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:19.600 to me afterwards, one specifically about mental health, including anxiety, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.000 another one about depression and anxiety. Really good conversations and 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.359 really good questions, and it seems to be there's been 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.680 just without opening the door too wide, there's just been 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.799 a lot of stuff going on Planet Craig and a 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:37.120 lot of people's planets lately. But the intersecting of my 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.560 life with many other lives that are going through some 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.440 really hard shit, and in the middle of all of that, 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:48.240 obviously is overwhelm and you know that cognitive overload and 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.320 anxiety and just that what can be that internal mayhem? 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:57.920 So I wanted to ask you a few things about 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.920 this and just to maybe get a little bit of 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:09.240 clarity around around because I feel like, firstly about how 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.520 to navigate anxiety, but I think like anxiety is not 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.680 the same experience for everybody. Am I right? So it's 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:21.080 probably in the same postcode, But what I interpret as 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.640 anxiety might be a different psychological, emotional, and physiological experience 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.760 to what somebody else interprets. Am I correct? 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:34.400 Look, it's like, well, when I say something's red and 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.520 you say something's red, are we both saying the same 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.839 thing when it comes to the experience of anxiety? It, 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.240 I mean we know it's an emotion, and we know 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.520 that for it to be anxiety, it has to tick 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:51.080 certain boxes. But our experience of anxiety can be very, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.320 very different. Like one person can just be out of 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.560 their head with worry and rumination and just spiraling and 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:03.080 spinning and can't focus, can't concentrate. Somebody else might just 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:08.279 feel sick to the stomach and you know, just or 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.360 it could be tension, headaches, the symptoms are so there 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.719 are so many symptoms that your experience, my experience, to 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.440 his experience, listeners experience can be different. But for it 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.720 to be anxiety and not something else, you know, it 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.479 has to tick certain boxes. Like there's activation of the 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.239 stress response, there's you know, the fight or flight response 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.799 is activated, and it's because of the anticipation of a threat, 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.520 not that you're facing a threat in that very moment. 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:43.440 And so yeah, so that's a there, there you go. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.000 That's my answer to the question. Hope that clear. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.160 I would I don't want to be I don't want 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.640 to be contentious, but fuck it, live on the edge, jumbo, 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.159 come on, be all you can be grasshopper, jump out 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.880 of the nest and fly your little fat fuck all right, 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:05.359 So I feel like anxiety is not an emotion. I 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.440 feel like anxiety is a response to emotion. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.719 Really, it is an emotion. Anxiety is an emotion. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:21.480 Why is it an emotion because we feel isn't isn't anxiety? 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:27.599 But isn't that a physiological response anxiety to to, Like, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.680 fear is an emotion, and might anxiety be the physiological 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.359 response to that emotion? 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.240 Well, tell me about fear. Is if fear is an emotion, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.040 what happens when we're fearful? 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.960 Then it creates an anxiety response. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.200 Well okay, so but when if you're fearful, what are 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:47.720 you feeling? 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.599 Well, you're scared of something. But that's the emotional state. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.719 But I feel like anxiety is the physical part of 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:56.400 the emotion. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.920 No, I'm just done. Yeah. So with anxiety, there are 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.599 multiple parts to it. There's the physiological arousal we know 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:09.159 about that. There are all the sensations that come with that, 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:16.320 the you know, the numbness, tingling, dizziness, feeling sick, headaches, worry, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.560 all that. Then we've got the behaviors that can come 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.120 with that, which is avoidance. We've got the emotions that 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.440 accompany it, like the big feelings that come with it, 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:32.920 which is tyrannous, aggression, maybe agitation, irritability, that sort of thing, 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:35.800 and then there's all the thinking that comes with it 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:40.440 as well. But anxiety, I take your point. I take 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.200 your point because it's like the weather, it's got lots 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.160 of things that contribute to it. Anxiety is the same, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.840 but it is considered an emotion. It is a feeling. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.200 We feel anxious, but there's a lot of there's a 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:54.880 lot of other things that are going on at the 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:55.400 same time. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.480 You don't buy it, nah, I don't think it's an emotion, Chatters, 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:09.440 I feel like yes and no. So I asked Chatters 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.440 before we came on as well, just to see, and 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.760 then I looked up the dictionary and it says anxiety 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:18.040 as your body's threat alarm, going off when sometimes there's 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:23.000 no real threat. Like to me, that's talking about your physiology. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.360 But I think the answer is it's both. I think 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.840 it's I think can read what's in front of you. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.520 Tip short answer, yes, So I said, is anxiety and emotion? 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.920 Short answer yes, but also no. Anxiety is an emotion, 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.000 but it's also a physiological alarm system that likes to 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.840 go off even when there's no fire. Think of it 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:48.160 as fears, caffeine addicted, cousin, jittery, over prepared, and always 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.080 convinced something is something ominous is lurking just off stage. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.280 Our best outcome ever, we're both right, which is really 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.040 good because we've both got fucking heaps of issues. 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:01.160 Well done, team. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:08.800 Yeah, So Jodie, do you think that, Like, I know 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.679 that a big part of your philosophy, which I agree with, thankfully, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:21.000 is being able to coexist with our insecurity without anxiety, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.959 knowing that it's probably for a lot of us, we're 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.840 probably never going to have a life with zero anxiety, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:33.680 myself included. Should should that be our primary goal to 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.160 learn to live with it? Or should we try to 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.440 turn down the volume of it? Like is there any 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:45.360 is there any thinking around overcoming it? Or commentering? 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:50.599 Yeah, look absolutely and yes yes is the answer to 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.720 all of those questions that learning to live with it is, 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.360 I'll start there, is that when we fight with anxiety, 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.040 it's really important to know this. When you fight with it, 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.120 you struggle with it. You do everything you can not 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:11.080 to feel it, not to experience it. You make it worse, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:16.000 you make it worse, but you know it is. It's 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.959 pretty like this is a simple idea but not easy 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:24.880 to do. A bit like meditation is that when you 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.480 turn and face it and you welcome it as if 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.160 you wanted it now, people will be going, oh, you're joking. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.040 It's like, well, you know, I'm not saying that if 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.520 we could click our fingers and wave a wand we 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.960 wouldn't rid ourselves of it, although it's very protective and 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.160 it serves us well in lots of ways. But if 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.520 we can see it for what it is and have 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.160 this understanding that it's like this alarm in our brain 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.360 that's going off, you know, when there's there's no reason 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.920 to be, you know, concern for our safety. It's just 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.800 a trigger happy kind of system that we can we 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.160 can train to respond differently. We absolutely can. So can 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.400 we dial it down? Yes, something that people can overcome. Yes, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.480 it is treatable. And you know, some people might have 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.360 anxiety at a stage in their lives and really experience 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:22.920 anxiety that's debilitating. Everybody experiences normal anxiety, but with you know, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:29.480 depending on the type of therapeutic approach that they you know, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.280 that they take on or that they follow, you can 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.000 move through it, move past it, and then it's no 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:40.440 longer a significant kind of challenge. That said, there are 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.320 people like my mum who has done everything you could 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:50.600 possibly do, and it's just anxiety is just always going 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:55.040 to be a significant part of her life, but one 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.360 that I work with her to support her to make 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.320 sure it doesn't. It's not sort of like a big 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:06.960 stop sign that stops you from living. So yeah, like. 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.360 I wonder if you know, with some things like if 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.280 you've got a nut allergy one. Now, I'm no specialist 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:18.080 in this space. Probably surprised that I'm not a specialist 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.400 in this but you know how sometimes they'll give you 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.840 like a fucking a gram a microgram of a nut, 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.760 and then they'll give you two micrograms of a nut, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.120 and then over time they build you up to now 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.320 where your body is adapted and it can eat nuts. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.800 So the thing that used to create a really bad 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.160 physiological outcome, now it doesn't right because your body is adapted. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.160 And you know, like and I guess another one is 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.479 with like a rachnophobia, people who are scared of spiders. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.920 One of the things that they do, not everybody, but 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.120 one of the approaches is like to start people by 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.720 looking at a photo of a tiny, little, teeny fucking 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:03.400 spider a photo and they do it from ten feet away, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.080 and then they do it from five feet away, and 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.120 then they hold the photo and then eventually, you know 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.400 what I'm saying, Then eventually they've got a fucking you know, 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.640 a tarantula or on their face and they're loving it, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.600 you know. So, so that response has been reprogrammed over time. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.520 I'm wondering if, like, if we identify the thing that 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.600 causes anxiety or triggers anxiety, do you think there's a 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.480 Is it feasible that we put ourselves through a form 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.840 of exposure therapy and go, what's the thing that gives 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.319 me anxiety or scares me and just doing a form 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.480 of what I just described with the peanuts and the like. 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.559 Is that possible where you go, well, this scares the 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.760 shit out of me, but I'm just going to put 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.760 my little toe in the water and then jump back. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:51.760 Is that a thing? 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.200 It is a thing, But you've got to be really 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.800 motivated to want to do that. Like a lot of 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.960 people would say, well, I'm scared of spiders. I don't 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.040 cared to be anything else. I mean, again, wave the 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.839 one yes, But do I want to put myself through that, 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.559 and you've got to ask yourself, like what's motivating you 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.959 and what's moving you so that you could make that 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.360 commitment to doing it despite the anxiety that you're going 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.120 to experience. But one hundred percent I did it with 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.640 my podcast. I was so I was just so overwhelmed 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.680 with anxiety and every bone in my body said, don't 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.520 do it. But I really wanted to because I really 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.200 wanted to help in COVID, help people, you know, support 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.320 them and you know, be there and do something and 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.800 give back in a way that I thought would be helpful. 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.040 So I was really motivated, and so I did that first. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.840 There was a lot of procrastinating, but I did that 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.000 first episode and then I did the second one. When 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.800 I was first a guest for you, I was so anxious, 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.680 Oh my gosh, And now I'm excited. I look forward 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.600 to it because you learn through the exposure and look, obviously, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.160 being on a podcast like this, there's no dipping the 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.440 toe in is there. It's like it's all in. It's 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.080 like you're having a food combo or you're not doing it. Yeah, 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.440 but you can do that. 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.160 Yeah, sorry, I mean that's the beauty though. Like, imagine 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.840 if every guest that I have on like you and 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.160 I are friends. I love you, I think you're amazing, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.960 You're great at what you do, which is why gratefully, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.080 I'm so grateful that you keep coming back. But if 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.760 every time you have any opinion, I go, I agree, Well, 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.880 then we're not having a real conversation. Yeah right. It's 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.960 like you go X, I go, maybe Jody, but maybe 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.600 why and you go, well, maybe harps, but maybe fucking not. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.480 And I go, all right, well, let's let's unpack that. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.320 I mean this for me, this is the point. Part 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:49.080 of the point of podcasting, especially what we do, is 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.640 to have an actual conversation that could even be a 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.000 bit fucking lumpy and bumpy, Like we're not trying to 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.400 produce a Disney podcast where you know, we all live 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.120 happily ever after. We're actually trying to do some digging 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.720 and figure out what's fucking going on. And there's no 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.520 necessity for you and I to agree on everything. But 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.280 what is interesting is when we did unpack the is 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.360 it an emotion? Is it not an emotion? You go, oh, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.880 it's kind of both, And it's like that's a good 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.600 question to ask, But like for me, one of the 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:28.680 things is I think, because I feel like when we 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:33.280 go so, you're probably going to have anxiety forever, or 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:37.640 a form of anxiety forever, which I think for most 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.000 people is true. I think there's always going to be 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.960 something to be anxious about. And also this is purely anecdotal, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.280 but my experience is for many people as they get 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.040 older and I mean older older, like posts seventy seventy 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:57.680 five eighty, anxiety can really start to ramp up. God 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.720 bless my mum, but my mum could. If there's nothing 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.159 to worry about, Mary will find twelve things right, and 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.360 you just I understand that. But I think like realizing 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.639 that I'm always going to have fear, and I'm always 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.760 going to have some fear of something and some anxiety 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.760 about something, and I'm probably always going to self sabotage 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.719 a bit, and I'm probably always going to overthink a bit, 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.480 and probably there will be that will be a component 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.320 of the Craig experience forever. But having said that, I 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.480 don't want that to get in the way of my possibilities. 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.359 I don't want that to be the force or the 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:39.800 influence that controls my choices and my behaviors like I 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.080 want to be brave anyway, I want to be adventurous anyway, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:50.000 I want to get uncomfortable anyway. And I feel like 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.600 this exposure therapy of doing the thing that scares me 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.200 in an intelligent, strategic way, not a reckless way. Well, 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.119 what's scared you, Craig? That might be worth opening the 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.399 door on. And for you it was like, well, Jody, 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.120 are you scared of Like, is there fear around doing 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.760 your first podcast? Yes? And so why Well, that's because 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.239 your desire to do a podcast and help people and 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.720 probably you know, build skill and understanding in this space 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:23.719 called podcasting, and that probably overrode the fear. Doesn't mean 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.040 you weren't scared. It just means you were courageous and scared. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:28.280 Does that make sense? 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.760 Oh yeah. I had a guest once who was talking 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:37.040 about a parent that had the like a two kilometer 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.600 radius from their house. They kind of didn't that was 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.840 kind of like this imaginary line they couldn't go past. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:48.399 And my guest said to this patient of theirs, but 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.600 what if one of your kids was in trouble and 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.439 they were two and a half kilometers from home? What 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.879 would you do? And the dad was like I would 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.879 be straight there in a beeline in a heartbeat. And 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.840 it's so it's kind of like, well, how how important 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.000 is it? And you know, if somebody's got a fear 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.960 of a fear of dogs, it's pretty it's you know, 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.160 like dogs are everywhere, like you know, you you might 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.119 not want to overcome it, but it probably would be 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.600 a really helpful thing to do. If someone's got a 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.040 fear of chickens, you can probably go through life not 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:22.800 really being exposed to chickens. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.440 Chickens chicken so random, it's a thing. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.679 I know someone who is really frightened when they come 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.360 around here, and our chickens have to be in the pen. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.359 So there's there's some things that you're. 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.360 Like, yeah, tell you what, who needs to be frightened 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:42.240 when I come around the fucking chickens because I love chicken. 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.240 Those chickens better when I come over, those little motherfuckers 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.639 better hide. 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.120 I'll let them know. I'll let them know. But yeah, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.520 but then, but you know, it's about what is important 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.560 to you and you only only we can work that out, 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.280 and and yeah, you're right, you're right. Helps we can 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.520 do it for ourselves. Some people do this with the 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.040 support of a psychologist somebody to sort of support them 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.359 and guide them and you know, help them kind of 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:11.560 take those steps forward. 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.119 Do you think that, And again, this is just an 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.400 opinion everyone, This is not data or evidence or research. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:22.960 But do you think that for some people, doing stuff 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:27.000 is a better way of overcoming anxiety than talking about 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.080 stuff without a. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.919 Doubt because you've got to get the experience of it. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.680 You've got to teach your brain that this is safe. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.040 And so that's only through experience you can know. You 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:43.399 can absolutely know that if there's a spider on the 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.800 opposite side of the room to you, that you are 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.119 not in danger of being bitten by that spider one. 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.520 But it's only but you can know. We can know 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.280 something intellectually, but it's the experience of it that we 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.040 need to teach our brain that hate isn't dangerous. And 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.879 that's why all the things that we've all done that 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.320 have been terrifying, like speaking on stage, we all stand 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.639 in front of hundreds of people with a microphone in 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:18.160 our hands. Yeah, experience teaches you that it's a safe 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.399 place and so yeah, you have to do it. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.000 And how often is that true in all areas of life? 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.240 Where it's you might know all the theory of how 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.640 to create an outcome. You know, you might you might 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.760 own a gym, you might be an exercise physiologist. I'm 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.680 talking about myself. You might. You might know how to eat, 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:42.800 how to train, how to lift, how to recover, how 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.639 to sleep, how to optimize your own genetics. And at 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.000 the same time, you're eating shit when no one's looking right, 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.200 and you're telling people essentially lies because you're teaching them 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.360 to do the things that you're not doing. I mean 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.520 that was literally part of my story for a while, 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:58.600 where I was a guy who owned a gym, and 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.280 I was one hundred and seventeen k so like right 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.880 now this morning, well I haven't weighed myself, but I'm 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.000 give to take eighty kilos. So I was essentially a 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:09.960 fat guy who owned a gym who was telling people 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.040 to do shit I wasn't doing. I understood the theory, 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:13.760 I knew what to do, I knew why to do it, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.520 I knew how it worked. I just wasn't fucking doing it. 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.640 Or a range of you know, a range of reasons 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.240 that we could but we won't go into on this show. 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.880 But it's only when you start to operationalize or put 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:32.400 into practice the things that you know that work, where 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.000 you own up and step up. You know, in my 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.960 case where I went, yeah, I'm full of shit everyone, 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.960 I've got a fucking food issue, and so I'm going 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.360 to do better. You know, it's like, and it might 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:48.520 be you know not that's not an anxiety thing, but 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.440 it's still a mental hurdle that I needed to navigate. 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.720 And I think that, you know, when I started to 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:59.080 literally do different things. You know, when you it's like 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.200 when you started to do the podcast right now you're 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.360 a million podcasts in your fear response has gone, your 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:10.919 anxiety responses, sorry, your excitement responses taken over. You know, 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.200 you're the same person with the same potential, but now 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:18.000