1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm suan Alma. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: The speed and scale of the AI boom has drawn 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: comparisons to the Internet explosion of the nineteen nineties. Tech 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: giants are pouring billions into AI innovation, driven by the 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: potential to reshape industries and deliver long term productivity and growth, 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: but there are questions over whether the surgeon spending can 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: deliver that long term growth and just as importantly returns, 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: or whether the whole thing has been overhyped. Doctor Kevin 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: Hebner is Global investment strategist at Epoch Investment Partners. He 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: joins me once again from New York. Kevin, Welcome back 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: to Fear and Greed, Ay Shine. How like the nineteen 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: nineties is the current tech? If I say tech bubble, 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: I'm suggesting it's exactly the same. So I'm not even 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 1: going to say tech bubble. The tech enthusiasm today, how 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: similar is it to the nineties? 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: Use a term boom, so it's an AI boom in 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: the playbook. Relative to the nineties, it's very similar. In 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, starting say from ninety four with Mosaic, 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 2: the first real Internet browser, you had an enormous investment 20 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: at that time in the infrastructure, fiber optic cables, switches, routers, 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: all these sorts of things. A lot of was telecom firms, 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: fiber optic firms, and so forth, and the hope that 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: there would be a good return investment to all that 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: money over decades. There was, but certainly not in the 25 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: short term. There was. It you mentioned before companies currently 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 2: investing billions. They're not investing billions. They're investing hundreds of 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: billions of dollars just the big three companies alone, so 28 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: that's Meta, Google, and Microsoft are investing two billion dollars 29 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: this year in capex. That's just three companies. That's up 30 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: fifty percent from last year. It's going up fifty percent 31 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: this year. If you added Amazon too, that Amazon alone 32 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: is spending over one hundred billion dollars. And typically we 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: don't include Amazon because normally they spend CAPEX on other 34 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: things as well, but right now most of Amazon's CAPEX 35 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: is AI related, data centers, other types of infrastructure related. 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 2: So we've got this enormous CAPEX boom. So that's one 37 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: reason to wonder if this is sustainable. The second reason 38 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: is valuations, and if you look at valuations over the 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: last one hundred years, they've only been more extreme once, 40 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: that is the late nineteen nineties. We are more extreme 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: than we were in the late nineteen twenties, the other 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: big boom. And then, as you're alluding to, the third 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: reason to worry about this is the tone of euphoria. 44 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: That's everywhere. There is a lot of hype, and certainly 45 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: the hype to reality ratio is very high this time. 46 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: So these are all reasons to be worried. But we 47 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: argue that there are a couple of reasons to think 48 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: maybe this is a boom, but it's going to run 49 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: a little bit further. This is it yet nineteen ninety nine? 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: Okay, a lot to unpack on that. Let's you mentioned Mosaic. 51 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: Those companies that did well in the late nineties and 52 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: spent all that money investing in fiber optic cable and 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: stuff like that, how are they going now? Are they 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: still around? The idea being that technology reinvents all the time. 55 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: So Amazon might be spending one hundred million dollars in 56 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: the other three two hundred billion combined, is it money 57 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: well spent? Yeah? 58 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: So of the companies say from nineteen ninety four, nineteen 59 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: ninety five through two thousand, most of the companies investing 60 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: did not get a return. Many of them have disappeared. 61 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: And if you look at see the top fifteen global 62 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: tech companies in the year two thousand, only one of 63 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: those companies is still in the top fifteen, that's Microsoft. 64 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: And so you do get enormous turnover, and you should 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: be thinking about that now when you think what are 66 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: going to be the top tech companies globally in twenty 67 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: thirty five or twenty forty, it's going to be a 68 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: very different group than the ones we have today, and 69 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: many of the companies that are going to do very 70 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: well through AI. And as we move from last year 71 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: the focus was generator of AI. This year it's agentic 72 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: AI using agents chain of thought for AI. It's going 73 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: to be new companies in many cases, companies that we 74 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: haven't heard of, or companies like deep Seek, which which 75 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: seem very unusual or a little bit strange too us 76 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: the same way that Google seemed very strange in nineteen 77 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: ninety nine. So by and large, at least the experience 78 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: in the Internet was the companies doing all the investing 79 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: were not the ones that did really well for equity investors. 80 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: You talk about the rise of AI enabled killer apps 81 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: that can drive returns to companies, what are they half 82 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: our y are they? 83 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: So if we think of the Internet boom, so the 84 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: killer apps would have been Google, Facebook, Uber and so on. 85 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: Airbnb so the company that came out of the Internet, 86 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: and then mobile and then later cloud. So these killer apps, 87 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: these killer companies in which we had enormous amounts of 88 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: cash flow doing extremely well for equity investors. So there's 89 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: a big question. Given say the turning billion dollars that 90 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: the big three are investing this year, and they've said 91 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: over the last two weeks during results season, that's what 92 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: they plan to do. Where's the return invested capital are 93 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: going to be? And all the big tech companies now 94 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: do have fantastic return invest in capital. Typically it's twenty 95 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: to thirty percent, well above their cost of capital. So 96 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: they are creating enormous amount of value. The question is 97 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: how further is that going to run? And then will 98 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: the killer apps? Will they be vertically integrated into the 99 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: big Bihalmis, the hyper scalers, the Microsoft's Googles, metas and 100 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: so far, or will there be separate companies that come along. 101 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: These are a couple of the questions that investors are 102 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: trying to figure out now. I think are going to 103 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: be critical too, where there are going to be returns 104 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: over the next couple of years. 105 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: Kevin plenty in that, but I also want to talk 106 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: to you about tariff's and the US. Will be back 107 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: in a minute. My guest this morning is doctor Kevin 108 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: Hebner from Epoch Investment Partners. Kevin Donald Trump has outlined 109 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: tariff's twenty five per cent tariffs on metals. He's talked 110 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: about tariffs on Canada and Mexico. They're in abeyance at 111 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: the moment. He's talking about the EU from afar. As 112 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: we look into the US, it is very difficult to 113 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: make sense of it. Why he's doing it. Can you 114 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: enlighten us somewhat? 115 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 2: Yes, And we just wrote a paper on this topic 116 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: Trump trade in tariffs and trying to understand from his 117 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 2: perspective why he's doing this. And I think there are 118 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: fundamental reasons. There's a couple of things that are really 119 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: important to Trump. One thing that's important to him is 120 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: manufacturing jobs. This is critical. It's also the case that 121 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: he thinks that companies want access to the US consumer. 122 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: Countries also want to have protection from the US defense umbrella, 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: and he thinks people have been getting that unfairly and free. 124 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: There hasn't been a level playing field, for example, with trade. 125 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: And then a lot of countries have acts to the 126 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: US defense umbrella and haven't been paying, say for their 127 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: two percent needle commitment forward, and he thinks things need 128 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: to be fair in some sense. You need to escalate 129 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: so you can de escalate and get a fair trading 130 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: system going forward. Eighty percent of his ire is targeted 131 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: to China. China, for example, has a one trillion dollar 132 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: or trade surplus this year. It's an incredible non number, 133 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: so trillion dollars. The US trade deficit is roughly a 134 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: trillion dollars. It's a trade deficit in goods. So this 135 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: is totally unsustainable. And the reason why China has this 136 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: huge deficit is industrial policy. China wants to be the 137 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: leader of the industries of the future, so evs really 138 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: the entire EV supply chain, batteries, solar panels, defense technology, 139 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: hypostomic missiles, drones including AI. With the announcement of Deep 140 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: Secret a couple of weeks ago, so China has this 141 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: very aggressive industrial policy. They have lots of barriers to 142 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: keep for example, the exports from the United States out 143 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: of China. They've effectively banned most of the tech companies 144 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: and the tech products from entering China, and so it's 145 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 2: very much I think it's hard to argue this is 146 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: a level playing field for trade between the Nine States 147 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: in China. Eighty percent of what Trump is doing is 148 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: about China and trying to redress these enormous There's nothing, 149 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: never been anything like this in history between the United 150 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: States and China. And I think it's important to not 151 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: just criticize Trump and criticize his policies, but to understand 152 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: where he's coming from. Because he's been taking this perspective 153 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: for a long time, for decades. It's not going to 154 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: go away. And for investors to understand where's policy is 155 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: going and hence the delta on markets, I think it's 156 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: critical to try to understand his perspective. 157 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: Okay, he's taking a big stick then in a sense, 158 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of collateral damage Mexico, Canada, for example, 159 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: if those tasks go ahead, Australia in terms of our 160 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: sale of steel into the US and our sale minium 161 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: into the US is does that justify it? The fact 162 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: that there is a lot of clateral damage if he 163 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: really is ie is on China. 164 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 2: So from his perspective, there's a number of nice things 165 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: about tariffs. One is that he can do it on 166 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: his own through executive orders citing different types of legislation, 167 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: but he doesn't need Congress. A second thing is he 168 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: gets revenues, and he's going to get over one hundred 169 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: billion dollars in revenues from tariffs this year, so that 170 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: helps him a lot with other priorities, for example, reducing 171 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: the corporate tax rate in the US from twenty one 172 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: percent to fifteen percent for companies that locate in the US, 173 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: and in general, getting manufacturing jobs back home, getting home shoring. 174 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: And we are starting to see signs that there is 175 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: a bit of a manufacturing renaissance in the United States, 176 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: center on semiconductors, but some indications that it's broadening. So 177 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 2: this is important. You can always question his tactics. I 178 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: think the strategy is clear. Tactics Why Canada and Mexico, 179 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: And there are different issues with Canada Mexico. They're buying 180 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 2: large not trade issues. There are either issues about the border, drugs, immigration, 181 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: or in Canada's case, natal commitments, defense of the Arctic, 182 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: still in aluminum. Clearly this is blue collar manufacturing jobs. 183 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: These are really important to Trump and maybe more important 184 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: than you think they should be. But ultimately, even if 185 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 2: we're in a world that's very digital, driven by the 186 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: world of bits, that's where the value added is, we're 187 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: still also in a world of ads where manufacturing is important, 188 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: and the US has outsourced their manufacturing expertise and lots 189 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: of areas, and we've learned through say the war in Ukraine, 190 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 2: through the COVID experience, that the US has these vulnerabilities, 191 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: for example, to critical healthcare supplies, maybe to energy, to 192 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: semiconductors if things with Taiwan get worse. So this is 193 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: very important to him, and it's something that he's going 194 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: to continue pushing through the rest of his term. 195 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: So I understand actually much better now, Kevin, thank you. 196 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: I like he's logic in it. Do you think the 197 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: American consumer will understand that? 198 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: So the idea is that we have this extremely efficient 199 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: global supply chains for lots of different goods. They're very efficient, 200 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: low costs, but they create these enormous vulnerabilities. As we 201 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: saw during COVID we couldn't get a host of healthcare supplies, 202 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: active pharmaceutical ingredients, protection equipment and so forth, and this 203 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 2: is a big issue. We saw the vulnerabilities of Europe 204 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: with Ukraine warned terms of natural gas and oil, and 205 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: then we see as tensions rise in Taiwan, what would 206 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 2: happen if we couldn't access leading node semiconductors. So, yes, 207 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: we have to reduce these vulnerabilities in these certain areas, 208 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: and that's very important. Also, we have to make sure 209 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: that the defense supply chain is less risky, that there's 210 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: more production home, particularly of drones, marine drones, air drones, 211 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: land drones, hyper missiles, all these sorts of things which 212 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: will be characteristics of the next conflict. Hopefully that doesn't 213 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: happen for decades and decades, but one has to be 214 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 2: ready for that. So the global trading system will be 215 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 2: less efficient, there will be higher prices for different types 216 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: of goods. But to some extent, it's like when you 217 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: buy insurance for your home or insurance for your car. 218 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: It does cost you in some sense, it makes you 219 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: less wealthy, but you're buying insurance a case something awful 220 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: does end up happening. 221 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: Kevin, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 222 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: I'll bet you very much. Sean. 223 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: That is doctor Kevin Heaven and global investment strategist at 224 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: Epoch Investment Partners. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. 225 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: Remember this is general information only, and you should seek 226 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: professional advice before investing. Join us every morning for the 227 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: full episode of Fear and Greed at Daily Business News. 228 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: For people who make their own decisions, I'm sure I 229 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: will not enjoy your day.