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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: James Kirby. Well, welcome aboard everybody, and I do hope

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Speaker 1: you've been enjoying the first few episodes of the Outlook series.

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Speaker 1: Today we tie it all together. Okay. We looked at

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Speaker 1: investment markets in the first show, we looked at stocks

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Speaker 1: in particular and stock picks. In the second show we

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Speaker 1: looked at property, and today we're going to add some

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Speaker 1: more and have the complete investment Outlook for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: It's a big call, I know, but we can nail

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Speaker 1: it because we have indeed done this before. Will Hamilton

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Speaker 1: and I my guest down the show. Will Hamilton and Hamilton,

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Speaker 1: well partners. How are you?

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Speaker 2: Will? Very well? James, thank you very much for having

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Speaker 2: on you.

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Speaker 1: Ready to go with this panoramic view of all things

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Speaker 1: investment for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Correct now, crystal ball. But you've got a lot of

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Speaker 2: points to discuss.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of prices to discuss, and you've

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Speaker 1: done your homework and I've sent you I've sent you

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Speaker 1: VOLUMEUS thoughts and notes on it, so I think it

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Speaker 1: will be good. All right, Look, let's start and start.

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Speaker 1: I want Will to imagine that basically, I am sitting

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Speaker 1: across I'm sitting across from you. Okay, I'm on your

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Speaker 1: top investors. You're crazy about me. I do so well

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Speaker 1: every year, but I'm worried this year. It's been very good.

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Speaker 1: It's been very good for too long, I feel. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are obvious worries like Trump and erratic policies, but

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Speaker 1: there are other worries that are deeper for a seasoned investor,

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Speaker 1: like inflation. For instance, when Will rear its ugly head again,

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Speaker 1: and it's certainly going to how long can these inflated

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Speaker 1: share prices last? Et cetera. There are many things to

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Speaker 1: talk about, but let's make it into a logical layout

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Speaker 1: for the listener. What are they outstanding? Let's start with

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Speaker 1: a positive note. What are the outstanding opportunities do you

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Speaker 1: think in the year ahead?

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Speaker 3: So emerging markets is an area that we are overweight.

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Speaker 3: It performed very well at the end of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: We're maintaining that position coming into twenty twenty six. I

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Speaker 3: think Mark also was overweight from memory and liked emerging.

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Speaker 1: Markets a global access.

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Speaker 3: He was correct, and we think that your China is

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Speaker 3: going to continue to parallelng We do like India longer term,

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Speaker 3: and we like some of the other Latin American countries,

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Speaker 3: especially as you've got some your tailwinds on commodity prices,

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Speaker 3: but Asia overall as positive. We're overweight infrastructure. We think

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Speaker 3: that's a very good inflation hedge, and we have rotated

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Speaker 3: a little bit, so we actually went from neutral to

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Speaker 3: slightly overweight developed market equities at the end of last year,

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Speaker 3: but that was in mid caps, so we had exposure

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Speaker 3: in mid caps. So I think this broadening of the

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Speaker 3: rallies is very important. But the other thing I do

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Speaker 3: agree on with respect to what Mark Joakam said was

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six is going to be a year we're

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Speaker 3: going to be very pleased that you're diversified, and I

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Speaker 3: think diversification is an absolute key.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you're talking, first of all, that the active

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Speaker 1: investors should broaden their exposure to pretty positive markets. And

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Speaker 1: in that context that would mean from a market perspective,

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Speaker 1: developed markets, the AX and the US markets. That would

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Speaker 1: mean broadening out from the in the case of the US,

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Speaker 1: the big tech seven. In the case of our own market,

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Speaker 1: it would mean broadening out beyond the usual suspects of

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Speaker 1: the big, big blue chips. Okay two. The second one

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Speaker 1: was emerging markets. For most of our listeners, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a very simple question of do I or

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Speaker 1: don't I have an emerging market fund? Could be a

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Speaker 1: managed fund, er, could be an ETF. I completely spack

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Speaker 1: what you're saying on that one, and I see the

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Speaker 1: logic of it. Will I know the emerging markets CTF

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Speaker 1: did at least twenty percent last year, and interestingly they

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Speaker 1: did better. It seems to me that the currency conversion

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Speaker 1: back to the Australian investor did better than the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street numbers on the funds and and ETF I have

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Speaker 1: at least And the third one was infrastructure, so our

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Speaker 1: listener knows how to get started in emerging markets. We've

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Speaker 1: just told you. We'll pick up on that broader issue

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Speaker 1: of widening rally or widening returns from more stocks on

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Speaker 1: both markets local and overseas. And infrastructure. When you say infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: how does the listener to the show get in on.

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Speaker 2: That global infrastructure?

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Speaker 3: I think is really important because what you like with

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Speaker 3: all things, especially in the markets we're as we're entering, well,

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Speaker 3: we haven't we're not entering. We are in the fourth

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Speaker 3: year of effectively a ball market rally. You make sure

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Speaker 3: you've got i think diversification amongst the asset classes, but

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Speaker 3: also within the asset classes, and so therefore having exposure

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Speaker 3: to a very broad collection of assets I think is important.

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Speaker 3: So there are open ended funds like Partners Group, Hamilton Lane,

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Speaker 3: et cetera that you can utilize to get exposure, and

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Speaker 3: they're evergreen structures. So i'd fine evergreen as variable liquidity,

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Speaker 3: not semi liquid. Yeah, because they do have the right

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Speaker 3: to lock these things up.

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Speaker 1: Does it include listed infrastructure funds listed.

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Speaker 3: In stocks, Yeah, there are in Australia, there are some global.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question. There are some global open ended

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Speaker 2: funds such as Maple Brown and yet they've performed extremely

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Speaker 2: well and they've got good European exposure, good global exposure.

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Speaker 1: Okay, folks, this is not advice, of course, it's information only.

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Speaker 1: There are many other funds than those that will have suggested,

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Speaker 1: but the point being very clearly okay, broadening of the

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Speaker 1: diversifying the stockholdings, opening up to emerging markets. If you haven't,

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Speaker 1: everything suggests that's going to rally forward and infrastructure on

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Speaker 1: the broader diversification team. We'll come back to some of

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Speaker 1: this in a minute. Okay, the risks will what are

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Speaker 1: the outstanding lists is here?

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Speaker 2: Inflation.

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Speaker 3: It's it, without doubt, the number one risk as far

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Speaker 3: as I'm concerned. We're living in Australia. We do not

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Speaker 3: have inflation under control.

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Speaker 1: And this theory that the rates will lift is actually

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Speaker 1: getting harder and more convincing by the day. That's locally okay,

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Speaker 1: and overseas obviously will. The issue is that the US

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Speaker 1: isn't is actually cutting reads. So your fear of inflation,

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Speaker 1: that's it seems to be. Is that sort of instinctive

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Speaker 1: rather than after numbers.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, I think that what you've got is three

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Speaker 3: things in the United States. So you've got potentially cash handouts,

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Speaker 3: you've got decrease, you've got lower interest rates as you

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Speaker 3: just mentioned, but you've also gotten very strong growth. And

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Speaker 3: so if you overstimulate, there's one thing that you're going

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Speaker 3: to get is inflation. And it's not necessarily under control.

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Speaker 3: It's under it is underneath there. And if you get

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Speaker 3: US inflation, I think that as I mentioned before, in

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Speaker 3: the fourth year of a rally, I think people need

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Speaker 3: to go back, not just and remember April last year,

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Speaker 3: They've got to go back and remember twenty twenty two

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Speaker 3: and what can go wrong? And that was all on

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Speaker 3: the back of higher interest rates and inflation. Now at

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Speaker 3: the moment, we've got the US looking to get interest

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Speaker 3: rates to be going in a different direction to what

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Speaker 3: is occurring in Australia. So there's an implication on that

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Speaker 3: stronger Australian dollar week at US dollar. It's all about

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Speaker 3: does the US economy become overstimulated. If it does, inflation

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Speaker 3: will rear itsugly ahead.

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Speaker 1: And just very generally for the general listener, higher inflation,

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Speaker 1: then what do the textbooks tell us as investors if

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Speaker 1: you've higher inflation hard assets? Right, So we're talking gold,

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Speaker 1: we're talking infrastructure, we're talking share markets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's property even yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay. The thing about the broadening of the share market,

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Speaker 1: it seems to me the idea that the investor should

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Speaker 1: be careful to widen out from the larger market cap dominance.

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Speaker 1: Doocks in all markets hours and the US it seems

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Speaker 1: a little broad. I just want to bring it back

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Speaker 1: to Australia for a moment. If you were to do

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Speaker 1: that here you'd pull away from BHP and real when

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Speaker 1: you were pulling away from CBA and the banks at

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Speaker 1: the same time. Would that be a good idea?

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Speaker 2: No, I won't.

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Speaker 3: I think that the resources, you know, because the difference

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Speaker 3: in resources is you've got some supply issues. You have

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Speaker 3: supply issues with respect nickel, copper, nickel, with respect to

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Speaker 3: Indonesia and what they've done there, copper globally, even on

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Speaker 3: things like gold, we're not it's demand is exceeding supply,

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Speaker 3: the increase in supply. So it's really interesting. I think

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Speaker 3: that the commodities have a tail wind for a different reason,

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Speaker 3: and it's a supply constraint, and that's what's fueling your

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Speaker 3: underlying commodity prices. And at this point in time now

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Speaker 3: and look at it on the opposite, Venezuela could be

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Speaker 3: coming in and pushing it in the US could be

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Speaker 3: pumping out more oil.

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Speaker 2: So what's the your price doing. Because supply has gone up,

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Speaker 2: it's going down.

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Speaker 3: So you need to watch those the supply side of

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Speaker 3: on the commodity side very closely. And so therefore I'm

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Speaker 3: positive the commodity side, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that there are actually exceptions that would pull get

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Speaker 1: rule on that one, you know, correct, I wasn't trying

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Speaker 1: to trap you. I was just checking, sincerely checking on

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Speaker 1: that all right. Now, one other thing I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do in this first half. Many of your clients are

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Speaker 1: wealthier clients and would be in the top whatever two

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Speaker 1: or three percent in terms of their wealth in Austria.

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Speaker 1: What's their mood going into this market? Are they broadly?

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Speaker 1: Are they bullished with that caution on inflation? What's the picture?

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Speaker 3: I used the term which I borrowed from a podcast,

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Speaker 3: so it's not my term, but I've used it a lot.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lot of fully invested bears out there.

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Speaker 1: And tally invested the bears.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So people are hesitant, especially as we've had this run,

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Speaker 3: and I think they they see the issues at a

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Speaker 3: macro level and I think I'm one of the big

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Speaker 3: things which's dominating is geopolitics. And we're only a month

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Speaker 3: into the year yet, you know, just there's been Venezuela,

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Speaker 3: there's been Greenland, there's been the threats to the Federal

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Speaker 3: Reserve chairman. You know that everything it's gone on geopolitically

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Speaker 3: is it's extreme. It's you know, we've had in a

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Speaker 3: month what we sometimes get in a year, and so

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Speaker 3: that's sort of dominated, that's dominating mood, I think.

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Speaker 1: But all things considered, everyone, each of those things, each

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Speaker 1: of those items in and of itself, could, under normous circumstances,

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Speaker 1: spark a sell off. None of them did. Venezuela, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps the most worrying from a financial perspective, intimidation of

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Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve. And so we have all these fully

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Speaker 1: invested bears. I like that. Okay, probably I'm fully invested

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Speaker 1: bear myself, and maybe that's typical. What's the danger of

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Speaker 1: that scenario when we have fully invested bears dominating the market?

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Speaker 3: I think the thing The interesting thing is you've got

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Speaker 3: all these people that like to point out all the negatives,

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Speaker 3: but their own methodology is to be fully invested. The

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Speaker 3: danger is if they do all head to the exit

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Speaker 3: because of the fact is that there is that the

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Speaker 3: fact that they are invested. But as you rightly said,

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Speaker 3: you're going to have to have some very major vent

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Speaker 3: at this point because I think everyone's looking there and

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Speaker 3: looking at the tail winds that exist, as I pointed out,

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Speaker 3: in the US, and it is a very strong economy. Therefore,

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Speaker 3: the earnings flow through is strong, and therefore the equity

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Speaker 3: market is being supported.

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Speaker 1: So hence the strong, relatively strong, maybe above average forecasts

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Speaker 1: for both the certainly for the US market yet again

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Speaker 1: and for our own market. Here's the thing. I just

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Speaker 1: wander on one thing. Yes, nothing moved, right, so Venezuela,

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Speaker 1: Greenland intimidation, gross intimidation, extraordinary intimidation of the US Federal Reserve,

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Speaker 1: suggesting no respect at hold for a crucial institution in

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Speaker 1: world markets. None of them moved the dial. But they

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Speaker 1: move perhaps they move gold. How do you read the

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Speaker 1: fact that gold was of fifty percent last year and

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Speaker 1: it's flying already this year.

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Speaker 2: Again, I think God's not just you're right somethings. Political

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Speaker 2: events are one thing.

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Speaker 3: But secondly, if you go by what you read and hear,

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Speaker 3: you have non aligned central banks that have not been

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Speaker 3: buying US treasuries and therefore turning away from the US

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Speaker 3: dollar and have been supporting gold. And that's been going

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Speaker 3: on for a number of years. So yes, there's a

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Speaker 3: supply side, but there's been very strong demand. Like I

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Speaker 3: was at a conference last year, and I must be

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Speaker 3: the strategist from Pictape when she said in the middle

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Speaker 3: of last year five thousand as a target for gold.

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Speaker 3: I sort of really raised my eyebrows, But she's going

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Speaker 3: to be right.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of Morgan Stanley's Mike Wilson, who

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Speaker 1: is their chief investment officer on the web side, probably

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Speaker 1: the most influential wealth thinker in the world, saying that

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Speaker 1: you could have up to twenty percent of your portfolio

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Speaker 1: on gold.

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Speaker 3: I know one or two individuals that actually do have that.

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Speaker 3: They feel that there's the overall risks that you know

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Speaker 3: we talked about just before underpin that that point that

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Speaker 3: you should have.

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Speaker 1: A large girl listeners should have as an exposure. I

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Speaker 1: know it's a tough question, but what do you think. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's cut to the shay. Should they have gold?

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Speaker 3: First of all, I was in Sydney yesterday and I

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Speaker 3: took a picture of it because I couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 3: I was seeing the line for ABC Bullion going down

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Speaker 3: Martin Place and around the corner into Pitt Street.

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Speaker 2: It was extraordinary, excellent.

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Speaker 1: It is extraord and if they and of course if

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Speaker 1: they wanted, if there was they could open a second

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Speaker 1: office and not have that line. But hey, the line's

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Speaker 1: the best advertising creature they've ever had no But so okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. Most people do in big super funds

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Speaker 1: can be comfortable in the fact that, do you know what,

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Speaker 1: your big super fund probably has no gold. There's no

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Speaker 1: evidence that any of those big super funds have gold.

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Speaker 1: They've missed it. I want to come back to that

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Speaker 1: in the future. But here's the thing. Will how assuming

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Speaker 1: that I'm taking it on board that you think people

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Speaker 1: should have gold in their portfolios. Tradition people used to

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Speaker 1: say two three percent in this extraordinary market extraordinary times.

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Speaker 1: If I was sitting on opstitute and I didn't have

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Speaker 1: any what would you say.

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Speaker 3: If you didn't have any you having we apter five

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Speaker 3: percent as a conservative allocation would be a good thing

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Speaker 3: to have.

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Speaker 2: If you're coming in now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, is that new to you? If I said

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Speaker 1: we were talking ten years ago, what answer would you

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Speaker 1: have given?

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Speaker 2: Zira?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, very good. We will leave it right there.

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Speaker 1: We will have a break. Hello, Welcome back to The

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Speaker 1: Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby and I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to Win Hamilton of Hamilton Win Partners, who, if you

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Speaker 1: don't know, by the way, apart from being a regular

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Speaker 1: on the show, is one of Australia's Top Advisors, and

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Speaker 1: is one of a tiny handful of advisors who have

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Speaker 1: managed to be on the Baron's Top Advisors list since

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Speaker 1: the day it was launched, almost a decade ago. Now,

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Speaker 1: will let's just try and divide this up, this notion

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Speaker 1: of broad We'll take it on board that the consensus

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Speaker 1: is that the markets are good enough to stay in.

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Speaker 1: By that, I mean there's no need. No one's rushing

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Speaker 1: to cash just now. That's for sure. There is a

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Speaker 1: danger of inflation, but inflation means you should be invested anyway.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to cash has come to be even

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Speaker 1: worse if inflation takes off. So let's just talk about

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Speaker 1: the two markets in this sense of broadening, because it

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Speaker 1: seems to be applicable in both our local market and

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Speaker 1: in the global market, which invariably means the US market.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing seventy percent of the MSCI. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the local market first of all. You know,

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Speaker 1: the big surprise last year I thought was that small

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Speaker 1: captive eighteen percent the ASX two hundred barely staggered across

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Speaker 1: the line. Really, okay, we got I mean in fact,

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Speaker 1: we got ten in the end, which was good and

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Speaker 1: was a surprise possibly and may reflect more of what

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Speaker 1: was happening in the very few weeks at the end

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Speaker 1: of December. But more broadly we got three. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've got a dividend the year of three and a

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Speaker 1: half percent, and we've got a very mixed market which

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Speaker 1: is dragged down by banks last year and could be

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Speaker 1: dragged down by banks this year. Have you only all

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Speaker 1: reviews you'd give us on the AX.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, it was dragged down by banks last year,

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Speaker 3: but if you look at the first half, it was

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Speaker 3: supported by banks. So the banks sold off in the

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Speaker 3: second half, and therefore index funds when banks were performing,

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Speaker 3: did very well because of the heart because bank's high

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Speaker 3: weighting in index. In the index, I think the banks

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Speaker 3: are going to continue to struggle cost to income ratio issues.

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Speaker 3: They are just vanilla banks now. There's very little else

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Speaker 3: that they do here in this market. And then, most importantly,

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Speaker 3: the valuation argument, principally with CBA, which was at one

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Speaker 3: stage and I think it still is the most expensive

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Speaker 3: bank in the world.

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Speaker 1: It would have to fall twenty two percent from here

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Speaker 1: to get to its consensus cluation and it's already fallen

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Speaker 1: a long way.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the banks I think are going to continue to struggle,

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Speaker 3: but as we mentioned before, this tailwind support on the

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Speaker 3: supply side, which is supporting resources. So I think that

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Speaker 3: the resource stocks are going to do well. However, we

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Speaker 3: do need to watch for it closely to see if

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Speaker 3: the re are glad Core takeover goes through, because if

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Speaker 3: it does, I actually think you'll get larger red Look,

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Speaker 3: this is not advice.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 3: You probably will see large rotation out of RIO into BHP,

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Speaker 3: and you've already seen people I think positioning for that

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Speaker 3: and one reason why behp's done very well. Then you've

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Speaker 3: got to pure metal stocks. And likewise, I think on

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Speaker 3: the mid caps, as they lagged and that valuation differential

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Speaker 3: was there, we've seen them rally. Will that continue. I

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Speaker 3: think it will for the moment, but just watch that closely.

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Speaker 3: There is a point in time where people will say

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Speaker 3: enough is enough, because I think on my mid caps

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Speaker 3: very easy to buy sometimes when if everyone sells them

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Speaker 3: at the same time, we know what can happen, and

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Speaker 3: hence the volatility you see in that sector. Sure, I

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Speaker 3: think the big thing is and I think one of

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Speaker 3: your questions was you know, what shouldn't people do? Just

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Speaker 3: remember that this is the fourth year of as I've

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Speaker 3: said twice before in this podcast, of this rally, we're

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Speaker 3: now into that there are people that are just going

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Speaker 3: to stick to the same old thing and heavily overweight certain.

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Speaker 2: Tech related stocks.

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Speaker 3: Got no problems people taking a market a marketweight position,

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Speaker 3: but there's no as they say, you never go broke

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Speaker 3: taking a profit and fading into rallies as important. I

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Speaker 3: think the other thing that you know, I've listened to

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Speaker 3: a lot of podcasts and what a lot of people

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Speaker 3: are saying is this year, especially the large investment banks,

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Speaker 3: they are confident that you will see, especially in the US,

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Speaker 3: the IPO market open up stocks like SpaceX, et cetera

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Speaker 3: coming on. So you know, there's some large companies potentially

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Speaker 3: at very large companies, not just large, extremely large companies

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Speaker 3: potentially to come on to the S and P five hundred.

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Speaker 1: So what does that in fair? Why is that important?

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Speaker 2: That will that will gobble up cash?

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Speaker 3: But it's also it's a positive sign for the market

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Speaker 3: that large IPOs can get away. And there was a

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Speaker 3: lot lined up in twenty twenty five, and then that

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Speaker 3: we saw April twenty twenty five in the tariff tantrum,

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Speaker 3: so to speak, March April, and that put a lot

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Speaker 3: of those on hold. But the large investment banks are

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Speaker 3: very confident that you will see a lot of companies

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Speaker 3: to become public in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to this scenario that I'm your client,

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Speaker 1: I'm your active investor, I'm your ideal client. I'm wealthy,

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Speaker 1: I'm an active investor. I listened to all your advice.

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Speaker 1: Take it forward now, I said to you, I did

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Speaker 1: very well last year. Well good, I know it's we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the fourth year of a bullmarket. History suggests

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Speaker 1: the odds are now stacking up against me that this

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Speaker 1: is going to work. Regardless of whatever facts we talk

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Speaker 1: about today, History suggests it gets harder to keep going.

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Speaker 1: There's also the risk of inflation. You talked about feeding

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Speaker 1: into rallies. What does that mean? Tell me about the

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Speaker 1: thinking of that is.

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Speaker 3: If you're overweight, it's as things, you know, markets perform

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Speaker 3: very strongly, it's just slightly just reducing that exposure. So

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Speaker 3: fading from an overweight position down to a more neutral position.

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Speaker 1: Where does somebody go then?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the good question.

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Speaker 3: So That's where I mentioned before diversification, and I think

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Speaker 3: diversifications absolutely crucial. I've just talked about the fact that

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Speaker 3: you will see some you'll see IPOs open up. There's

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Speaker 3: some evergreen private equity funds for instance, which I think

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Speaker 3: private equity at a small amount in portfolios be that.

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Speaker 3: And it depends on the size of the client and

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Speaker 3: what their liquidity appetite is whether they take that evergreen

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Speaker 3: exposure or they go more a liquid But I think

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Speaker 3: that those more evergreen structures are going to be releasing

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Speaker 3: some of the holdings that they've had for a long

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Speaker 3: time into the IPO market. So that's one thing you

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Speaker 3: could do. The second thing is, as I mentioned, is infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: We are overweight relative to our strategic position in infrastructure,

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Speaker 3: whilst we are neutral on diversified credit. It's a very

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Speaker 3: large bucket and it's a very broad bucket. If clients

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Speaker 3: are not neutral on a strategic benchmark that diversified credit exposure,

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Speaker 3: they should potentially look at that. But the big thing

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Speaker 3: is where do you put that money? And we're found

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Speaker 3: that definitely do not go into a liquid private credit

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Speaker 3: at this point in time. We found that the returns

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Speaker 3: you're getting a liquid private credit, very similar slight premium

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Speaker 3: to liquid So you want to see that that liquid

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Speaker 3: private credit.

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Speaker 1: The liquid private credit would be listed fund, would it

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Speaker 1: or no?

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Speaker 3: Some of them are open ended funds, but you're investing

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Speaker 3: in liquid securities over the counter.

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Speaker 1: Just to translate it, don't lock up, don't lock up?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you mean? Don't lock up for a

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Speaker 1: long time?

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Speaker 2: Correct? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And yeah, look the negative in this in some of

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Speaker 3: these is your margin spreads come right in and it's

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Speaker 3: very fine. But the fact is on an OTC basis,

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Speaker 3: these securities trade, and I think that's important. And you

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Speaker 3: also want to see large diversification within the structure that

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Speaker 3: you invest in. And when we say large diversification, I

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Speaker 3: don't mean thirty I mean two hundred securities.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the constant message here and how how does

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Speaker 1: the average investor get access to that sort of diversification.

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Speaker 3: There are funds that you have been into, funds that

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Speaker 3: you can look at to get that exposure. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: there's some that are are listed on the on the

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Speaker 3: six as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now jumping to another issue, but very relevant. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned how the the US dollar is declining and the

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Speaker 1: US dollar has declined against all major currencies last year

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Speaker 1: quite sharply. And again we can only talk about the consensus, folks.

438
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: No one knows what's going to happen next, but the

439
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: broad consensus is that the US dollar will continue to

440
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 1: decline this year. Now, many of our listeners would have

441
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: started in recent years to diversify away from Australia. What

442
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: if you if we're standing here and you and I

443
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: agree and the world agrees that the US is going

444
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: to decline, which means the Aussie dollar is going to

445
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: rise against the American dollar, what can we do and

446
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: what should we do?

447
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: So?

448
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: First of all, the Ausie dollar underperformed, Yes, it appreciated

449
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 3: against the US dollar last year, but at unperformed relative

450
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 3: to other currencies. But if we are looking at the

451
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 3: scenario that we expect, where interest rates in Australia go

452
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 3: up and decrease in the US, you are going to

453
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 3: see US dollar weakness against the Australian dollar. And therefore

454
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 3: you know we have we've got well hedged positions. Our

455
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 3: portfolios are probably about sixty percent hedged on develop market equities.

456
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: So and you can you can.

457
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: Get what would it traditionally be.

458
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 3: We would be below fifty percent, So we would be

459
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: traditionally probably around thirty percent, depending on have you Yeah.

460
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I know again, textbooks, the textbooks stuff

461
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: would suggest thirty percent. Heged is sort of natural for

462
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: a lot of Australian funds. But if an investor of

463
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: one of our listeners is saying, okay, you know, I've

464
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: got to make a move on some of the suggestions

465
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: you're making here, and they had a choice between a

466
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: hedged fund and a non hedged fund, could you explain

467
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: to them what they should do? And they're sort of

468
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: risks and opportunities around that.

469
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 3: So the risks are that the Australian dollar depreciates, so

470
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 3: we get all, we're all talking one thing, but we

471
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 3: get it wrong. So that's your biggest risk and hence

472
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 3: why you don't put all your ex in one basket.

473
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 3: But you know, if you do see this playing out

474
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: as we expect, you can buy hedged class or invest

475
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: in a hedged class of an underlying security. So that's

476
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: not available in all cases, but in many cases that

477
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 3: is available.

478
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And with the ets, I noticed the

479
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: hedged ones did so much better this year than the

480
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: unhedged ones, and the hedge ones are much smaller. By that,

481
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean much less money in them. There's one thing

482
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: I want to ask you will the danger not the danger,

483
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: but the issue I imagine that investors need to be

484
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: reminded of is these things change. So you took the

485
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: hedged you know, US share market ETF and it was

486
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: really good in twenty twenty six. But how do you

487
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: know when to turn off the dial and go back

488
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: to hedge to unhedged?

489
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 3: So depending on your position, where you think the Australian

490
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: dollar will get to and then you need to unwind that.

491
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 3: So if we saw the Australian dollars go through seventy,

492
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: we will start to reduce Yeah we were talking about

493
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 3: fading before, we would start to reduce that exposure.

494
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, very good. I think that hopefully is

495
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: clear to you folks. I know we are going we

496
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: are This is the nature of this show. It is

497
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: a very broad, panoramic show. We're going to touch off

498
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: some issues. Somebody you'll want to hear more of, somebody

499
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: you want to hear less of. That's the nature of it.

500
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: But I want to take a break and move into

501
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: the final section of the show, where we're going to

502
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: look at We've talked about the markets, and we've talked

503
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: about listed shares, et cetera. I know a lot of

504
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: people want to talk about but we haven't covered so

505
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: far in this series, okay, which is property and private equity,

506
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: private credit, even crypto. We'll be back in a moment. Hello,

507
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Australian Money Possible podcast. I'm James

508
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: Kirby talking, should I say, interrogating Will Hamilton on the show.

509
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: This is a very demanding show. I got to tell

510
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: you for any guests, and I appreciate you Will for

511
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: taking the hot seat on this one. Okay. Now, look

512
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: we talked and folks, if you listen to the three

513
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: preceding shows, a lot of this will really come into

514
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: focus for you because we've done listed markets, we've done

515
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: share picks, we've done property. So let's just take a

516
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: more holistic look. Now I'm sitting here again, Will, I'm

517
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: your active investor. I've got a nicely diversified portfolio. Before

518
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: we go into deep dive on one or two things

519
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: on property. One of the points I thought which Stuart

520
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: Williams made so clearly in the Property Show, and you

521
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: know he's obviously he's broadly supportive of property, particularly of

522
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: apartments which are in catch up mode basically with standalone houses.

523
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: But more broadly, the point he made was, if you

524
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: want to talk about that as an investor in the

525
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: share market, you are really digging deep for a value

526
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: I mean you, I mean where on north is it?

527
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: Or what is its relative case? And value managers. A

528
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: lot of value managers that we would have regarded as

529
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: deeply conservative value managers, they've one anchored. Basically, they're doing

530
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: things that they would never have done because three years

531
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: of a bull market is killing them. Now, how does

532
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: property sway up to you as in value terms? Visit

533
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: vie listed investments.

534
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: So on real property we went overweight about halfway through

535
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 3: last year. However, the reality is I doubt any client

536
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: is because you've got to find the assets to buy.

537
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 3: So whilst that's the positioning, finding the right assets, and

538
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 3: of course there's lots of managers that want to show

539
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 3: you assets, but whether they're right for our clients is

540
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: another thing altogether. Stuart Wims, one of the things is

541
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: that you have said is SIP in Melbourne being outstanding

542
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: value and on the apartment market and if you look

543
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 3: at the what people are paying for rent, especially for

544
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: one or two bedroom apartments versus the cost of fund

545
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 3: in if you if you replacement costs you, I think

546
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 3: that there comes a point regardless of YEA, this is

547
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: a depressed market. It's been depressed because of the taxes

548
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 3: that came that were introduced by the state government. And

549
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: I also saw another figure the median house price differential

550
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: between Melbourne and Sydney is now six hundred thousand dollars

551
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: well that which is just blown out to an extremely

552
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 3: high level. So I think if you look at all

553
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: the points Melbourne residential property has been, it's depressed and

554
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: there comes a point where value takes over, especially when

555
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: you've got to look at net migration that comes into

556
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: Melbourne versus a lot of other cities, so that demand

557
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: for rental property is there as well. And then likewise

558
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: on commercial property, and just anecdotally talking to a couple

559
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: of people that are trying to renegotiate commercial leases which

560
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 3: they took on five years ago, there are signs in

561
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 3: Sydney that you know they're looking at twenty five percent

562
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: upticks in a grade buildings and likewise in Melbourne probably

563
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: ten percent.

564
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: Are you saying that that the A reats property trusts

565
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: in commercial property may have reached the bottom of the cycle.

566
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that there's but you're.

567
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: Talking strictly a grade right, strictly top top of town.

568
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: Direct and have a look at what's training at a discount.

569
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: It's a neck tangible asset backing.

570
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah right, okay, okay, we won't do much more in property, folks,

571
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: except I wanted to bounce what that show said, what

572
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 1: Stuart Williams had put forward off will It's interesting. Okay,

573
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: he agrees, and I'm not surprised he does. Who wouldn't

574
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: a couple of random things for our listeners, and let's

575
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: divide them very cleanly. Private equity, in private credit, private

576
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: credit boom times for those guys, that's all fine. The

577
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: idea is that the banks were withdrawing that private credit

578
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: was terrific. Everybody loves private credit. Hey, private credit, you're

579
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: missing the boot in our market. It is known and

580
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: time if I'm wrong that the majority of that ends

581
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: up being property financed, and we are heading towards higher rates.

582
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: What's that market looking like now as we speak now

583
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: start of twenty twenty six.

584
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: We have exited property probably October. The last property holdings

585
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: we had we started reducing in late twenty twenty two.

586
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: You mean, sorry, well you've exited the just private credit

587
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: property credit.

588
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yep, and we are now out.

589
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. I just think again, what you're getting paid for

590
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: the risk that You've got to look at everything. It's

591
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 3: just not what you're getting paid. What are you getting

592
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: paid for the risk you're taking? And this is a

593
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: very set, This is a saturated market. There's a large

594
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 3: disparity in quality between managers, and whilst we might be out,

595
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 3: we took the view that we weren't getting paid for

596
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: the risk of taking and we can always get back

597
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: in again. There are some great managers out there, and

598
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 3: in that sector, there's some managers that we probably definitely

599
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: wouldn't look at. And so I think be careful. Make

600
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: sure you're not in second tier debt or mezzanine. You

601
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: want to have first tier exposure if that's what you

602
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: want to do, and make sure the fund is very

603
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: well diversified, and make sure you understand and I think

604
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 3: this is the really important thing is we wanted whatever

605
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: we invested, and we wanted to be able to look

606
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: at underneath the bonnet and have full transparency of what

607
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: that fund is investing in. There's a lot of headlines

608
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 3: out there are funds that you have had some issues.

609
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: Make sure you understand what you're investing in and you've

610
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: got full transparency, and I think that's a really important thing. Now,

611
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 3: private credit, though, isn't just a lot. There's a lot

612
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 3: of global managers that have come in. They're very well diversified.

613
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: You know that you've got your Blue Hours, your Bearings,

614
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: your Blackstones, et cetera. So there's lots of big US

615
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 3: funds that are coming here. Make sure you come If

616
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: there's leverage in the fund, have again investigate that. Look

617
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 3: at the leverage. Are you comfortable with that? Are they

618
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 3: well diversified. The majority of these are extremely well diversified.

619
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of things you've got to look at.

620
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: What is the exposure And because a lot of it

621
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: is effectively private equity credit, it's funding private equity funds.

622
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: So make sure you're comfortable with these funds. And again

623
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 3: remember you can always get in. If you decide to

624
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: sit on the sidelines for the moment, you can always

625
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: get back in.

626
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Look, one last thing we were talking about the

627
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: wider markets, listed investment markets at the start, and I

628
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: think one of the things that came across and even

629
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: the first sort of bag of correspondence we've had for

630
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: the new year, is that investors, a lot of investors

631
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: looking for something. They're looking for this. They know the

632
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: markets are strong, and they know that the trans are

633
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: above average, and they know gold, ironically, when I say ironically,

634
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: paradoxically is also very strong, even though it's not supposed

635
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: to be a non correlated acid, and so people are

636
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: looking for a non correlated acid. They're looking the people

637
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: are looking for something that isn't listed, that will pay

638
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: more than cash, much more than cash. But it seems

639
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: to me there isn't much out there apart from these

640
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: areas that you mentioned, private equity, private credit, debt of sorts.

641
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: Is there any other tier? If I was asking you

642
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: where I could look? Is there anywhere else I could look?

643
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: We have exposure of water.

644
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: Right and there's listed choices and there's unlisted choices, and

645
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: so you know, we live on.

646
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: Live up is that as the utility will.

647
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: Well, we feel all such kind of cyclical We live

648
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: on a dry continent. Yes, some parts of the continent

649
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 3: have had a lot of rain, but other parts haven't,

650
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: such as the state wearing and that Again it's about

651
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 3: if you do your homework. The supply demand constraints have

652
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: very much changed as the demand on things like armon

653
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: farms and so. Yeah, when you plant trays, if you

654
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: don't worder them, they die crops. You can make a

655
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: decision yourself plant this year or I won't. But yeah,

656
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 3: so the demand supply quation has changed.

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00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, terrific. All right, I think we will leave

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00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: it there. That's about it. As much I think as

659
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: the average person, the average investor could hold in their head,

660
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: I would imagine for a single show. The transcript of

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00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: this is available, of course, and you can see that

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00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: on wherever you see your or listen to your podcast.

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00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: Make have a look at that. Thank you very much,

664
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: Will Hamilton of Hamilton Wealth Partners. We're talking again. Through

665
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: the year. Nothing will be as demanding I imagine as

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00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: that one will. Thank you, James, You're welcome, and thanks

667
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: to Leah Samaglu who produced today's show. And keep the

668
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: correspondence coming. They are I'm collecting them, don't worry. But

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00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: that is it actually for the outlook shows, so we

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00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: will resume normal transmission from next week. So let's have

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00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: some correspondents the money puzzle at the Australian dot com

672
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: dot au to you soon.

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00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: The s