WEBVTT - Inside Ukraine’s fight for the next generation 0:00:05.269 --> 0:00:07.930 From The Australian, here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 0:00:08.010 --> 0:00:14.620 It's Tuesday, September 29, 2026. In Ukraine, winter is coming 0:00:14.700 --> 0:00:18.300 and that means 14 hours of darkness each night, temperatures 0:00:18.340 --> 0:00:23.100 of minus 20 Celsius, bitter snows and frozen rivers. As 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.410 we approach five years of Vladimir Putin's relentless so-called special 0:00:27.590 --> 0:00:32.650 military operations, Today we're asking, can Ukraine and her 37 0:00:32.650 --> 0:00:37.729 million people last another winter? And will Australia's latest commitment 0:00:38.130 --> 0:00:40.890 make any real difference? That's today's story. 0:00:40.909 --> 0:00:56.160 I think Russia thought it could just steamroll through in 0:00:56.180 --> 0:01:00.270 a matter of weeks. And what we have found is 0:01:00.330 --> 0:01:05.160 that the people of Ukraine were underestimated and their commitment. 0:01:05.950 --> 0:01:08.060 So it's my friend. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:14.039 With that, a tearful Anthony Albanese hugged Ukraine's President Volodymyr 0:01:14.060 --> 0:01:17.900 Zelensky in New York last week, signing a 10-year bilateral 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.200 security agreement with $ 60 million in new contributions to bring 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:26.620 Australia's total commitment to $ 1. 9 billion over the past five years. 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.619 That's been mainly in the form of Australian Defence Force gear, 0:01:31.020 --> 0:01:38.620 Bushmaster vehicles, tanks, drones and humanitarian assistance. The M1A1 Abrams 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.560 model has been Australia's tank of choice for nearly two decades. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:44.690 I can't think of a more suitable tank for the 0:01:44.730 --> 0:01:47.950 sort of conflict they're engaging in. These tanks are in 0:01:48.050 --> 0:01:52.170 good condition. They will be able to make a significant 0:01:52.210 --> 0:01:57.880 difference on the battlefield. Ukraine wants more, specifically helicopters and 0:01:58.020 --> 0:02:01.920 fighter jets, but Australia hasn't yet committed those. And the 0:02:01.980 --> 0:02:05.650 real battleground this winter is the energy grid. Russia has 0:02:05.790 --> 0:02:09.410 scaled up its missile and drone attacks on Ukraine's power 0:02:09.430 --> 0:02:13.130 plants and gas supply networks as Ukraine fires back on 0:02:13.230 --> 0:02:17.930 Russia's oil refineries. Ukraine has also developed networks of underground 0:02:17.970 --> 0:02:22.200 emergency shelters, headed by gas, but it's desperate to secure 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.870 more supply from Europe. At the same time, European countries 0:02:26.210 --> 0:02:29.829 are warning their citizens to reduce demand as much as possible, 0:02:30.210 --> 0:02:34.110 given the global resources squeeze caused by the Middle East crisis. 0:02:36.990 --> 0:02:41.010 They will survive because we've seen them survive horrendous winters 0:02:41.470 --> 0:02:42.630 in the last couple of years. 0:02:44.430 --> 0:02:47.270 Jacqueline Magne is The Australian's Europe correspondent. 0:02:48.450 --> 0:02:52.140 This is straight out of Russia's playbook to attack the 0:02:52.220 --> 0:02:55.800 energy sources and to try and make life as uncomfortable 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.240 as possible for the Ukrainians and to try and break them. Now, 0:02:59.300 --> 0:03:02.120 they haven't done that so far. I don't expect that 0:03:02.139 --> 0:03:05.240 this winter they will do the same either. Of course, 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.340 during winter, the fighting becomes this incredible stalemate, a trench 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:14.429 warfare situation. where the fighting is conducted via drones. It's 0:03:14.590 --> 0:03:20.530 all in the air by fighters directing drones against each other, 0:03:20.590 --> 0:03:25.609 counter drones, and using drones to drop off equipment and supplies, 0:03:25.710 --> 0:03:30.790 blood supplies, medical equipment. And so the warfare has changed, 0:03:31.470 --> 0:03:34.990 but those that are conducting the warfare can be in 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:40.619 relative warmth, at least inside somewhere. So they're not exposed 0:03:40.660 --> 0:03:43.280 to the elements in what we may normally think a 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:44.900 fighting campaign might be. 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.000 One of the hidden parts of this war has been 0:03:49.250 --> 0:03:54.930 Ukraine's missing children. There are estimates that 20,000 Ukrainian children 0:03:54.970 --> 0:03:58.930 have been lost behind Russian lines since Russia occupied Crimea 0:03:59.030 --> 0:04:03.030 in the south in 2014. Why would Russia want to 0:04:03.090 --> 0:04:05.250 take those children back to the motherland? 0:04:06.270 --> 0:04:10.410 Well, I spoke to this charity organisation called Save Ukraine. 0:04:11.130 --> 0:04:14.180 Mykola Kaliba, who is the head of this organisation, he 0:04:14.220 --> 0:04:17.760 founded it. He's actually a Nobel Prize nominee this year 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.720 because of his work trying to rescue the children. He 0:04:22.060 --> 0:04:26.680 has identified that initially the work was getting children out 0:04:27.020 --> 0:04:29.690 in the chaos of war when it first started and 0:04:29.910 --> 0:04:34.590 over more than 150,000 families, children, people were helped to 0:04:34.670 --> 0:04:38.810 relocate out of the war zone. But those that remained, 0:04:38.910 --> 0:04:43.089 and he thought there's about 30% of families stayed in 0:04:43.130 --> 0:04:46.670 the Donbass area and also in Crimea, and that's the 0:04:46.770 --> 0:04:50.950 areas occupied by Russia. And now they've, over the last 0:04:50.970 --> 0:04:53.590 four years, been trying to get those children who want 0:04:53.630 --> 0:04:58.279 to leave out of those occupied areas. Now, initially they 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:00.839 did want to leave, but in the years since they've 0:05:00.860 --> 0:05:05.150 been bombarded with Russian propaganda and They are in Russian schools, 0:05:05.210 --> 0:05:08.490 Russian culture. They go to a Russian military academy at 0:05:08.529 --> 0:05:12.380 the age of 14. They have no VPNs. So they 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.640 say it's like behind the Berlin Wall. They cannot get 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.659 current accurate information about what's going on. So all they 0:05:20.700 --> 0:05:23.159 can believe is what the Russians have been telling them. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.000 And these children are now of an age where they're 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:31.320 being conscripted to the Russian army. And so this rescue 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.680 mission has changed from trying to extract children, vulnerable children 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.370 out of Ukraine to now helping those children who are 0:05:40.390 --> 0:05:43.510 being conscripted into the Russian army that don't want to 0:05:43.550 --> 0:05:46.289 be conscripted and don't want to fight for Russia and 0:05:46.370 --> 0:05:49.910 enabling them to be able to get through the border 0:05:49.930 --> 0:05:53.480 and into a safe country. And there's many ways they 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.140 do it. They look at various different situations, whether they're orphans, 0:05:57.180 --> 0:06:00.210 whether their parents are in the Ukraine army, whether They've 0:06:00.250 --> 0:06:04.470 got family. Every situation is different, but they all involve 0:06:04.529 --> 0:06:07.310 having to cross the Russian checkpoint. And that, of course, 0:06:07.370 --> 0:06:10.060 is the most vulnerable time because one in seven don't 0:06:10.100 --> 0:06:12.300 get through. And they have to come up with some 0:06:12.330 --> 0:06:16.640 very creative reasons and backstories as to why they need 0:06:16.700 --> 0:06:19.860 to leave Russia. But they're managing to get, you know, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.860 in the last three months, they got 130 children out. 0:06:23.420 --> 0:06:25.900 So their work is continuing, but it has evolved. 0:06:26.870 --> 0:06:29.730 Is the point of that, I suppose, abduction of children 0:06:29.830 --> 0:06:32.990 from Ukraine, is it kind of ethnic cleansing or is 0:06:33.029 --> 0:06:36.630 it about recruiting the next generation of Russian kind of 0:06:36.710 --> 0:06:39.610 acolytes and bringing them over onto Russia's side or is 0:06:39.630 --> 0:06:40.250 it something else? 0:06:40.940 --> 0:06:43.340 Well, I think it's both. It is a definite strategy 0:06:43.420 --> 0:06:47.299 by Russia because we've seen them do this over several 0:06:47.339 --> 0:06:50.760 years now. The propaganda, it's a battle for the hearts 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.000 and minds of a generation. And if they can convince 0:06:54.540 --> 0:06:57.620 the local population where they're fighting to that they are 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.990 Russian and not Ukrainian, then half the battle is won, 0:07:01.050 --> 0:07:05.770 isn't it? Because that territory is held by Russians. Russia 0:07:05.810 --> 0:07:08.050 has been doing this for some time now. Not only 0:07:08.450 --> 0:07:11.910 do they, you know, the hearts and minds of the locals, 0:07:12.070 --> 0:07:14.690 if they're won over or they're unable to express any 0:07:15.050 --> 0:07:21.120 support or sympathy for Ukraine, Russia is also bringing in Russians. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.070 A lot of Chechnyans are in Mariupol, for instance. Russians 0:07:25.150 --> 0:07:28.950 are provided with free or very discounted housing in the 0:07:29.010 --> 0:07:33.250 occupied areas. So Russia is trying to flood the occupied 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:37.940 areas with Russian locals, as well as also having a 0:07:38.020 --> 0:07:42.940 generation of young former Ukrainian or current Ukrainian, but very 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:49.040 reluctant Russians to become fodder in the war. Of course, 0:07:49.060 --> 0:07:52.320 it's a shocking situation. But it's been going on for 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.500 many years now and obviously this is the whole heart 0:07:55.540 --> 0:07:58.600 of the war, isn't it, you know, to what does 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.520 the next generation of people living in that area want? 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.430 And Russia wants them to be Russian and they're doing 0:08:04.630 --> 0:08:06.290 everything in their power to do that. 0:08:12.330 --> 0:08:16.420 Music Coming up, more of my conversation with Jacqueline Magne. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:37.530 Music You've been with Ukrainian troops as they're being trained 0:08:37.650 --> 0:08:41.340 in places like Poland and the United Kingdom. Tell me 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.359 what that's like and what sort of people are they? 0:08:44.900 --> 0:08:49.100 Well, they're very friendly. They're very appreciative of the skills 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.420 that they're being given and that other countries, they take 0:08:53.460 --> 0:08:56.620 a lot of solace from the fact that Australians from 0:08:56.780 --> 0:09:00.000 so far away are willing to train them and become 0:09:00.059 --> 0:09:04.760 involved in their fight. They really take heart from that. Interestingly, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.770 one of the instructors that I spoke to at the 0:09:06.809 --> 0:09:09.290 last time where I was in a camp in Poland 0:09:09.450 --> 0:09:13.670 where Australia was helping to train them alongside Nordic countries 0:09:13.750 --> 0:09:16.490 and the Americans said to me, you know, he has 0:09:16.550 --> 0:09:20.660 fond memories of Australia because he was in a Bushmaster 0:09:21.220 --> 0:09:24.060 on the front lines. And so it had a little 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.610 kangaroo on the side. And so he had this picture 0:09:27.650 --> 0:09:30.670 that he showed me of the Bushmaster with the kangaroo 0:09:30.710 --> 0:09:33.510 and himself standing very proudly beside it. And he had 0:09:33.570 --> 0:09:38.719 that picture in his wallet. So Australia is having an impact, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:43.100 even though we think we're so far away from the conflict. 0:09:43.420 --> 0:09:44.719 In many ways, we're not. 0:09:45.590 --> 0:09:48.209 Yeah, we've contributed really practical assistance in the form of 0:09:48.250 --> 0:09:51.890 those bushmasters and armoured personnel carriers. We haven't given Ukraine 0:09:51.910 --> 0:09:55.770 everything they've wanted, though. Do you think Australia has done enough? 0:09:56.970 --> 0:10:01.640 Australia has given $ 1. 9 billion. now. The latest tranche was 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.620 a 60 million pound pledge and a lot of that 0:10:05.700 --> 0:10:09.750 goes into what's called Pearl and that's a collective fund 0:10:09.890 --> 0:10:13.650 by the Western countries where they have, Ukraine has a 0:10:13.690 --> 0:10:20.750 wish list of items that they want to to purchase 0:10:20.820 --> 0:10:25.359 these items or to have these items donated. So Australia 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.260 is contributing in a very practical way because they are 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.820 part of this scheme. And so therefore, those items are 0:10:32.860 --> 0:10:36.000 the ones that the Ukraine have identified as being the 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:41.609 most valuable. Of course, Ukraine would say, please give us more. And, 0:10:41.630 --> 0:10:44.130 you know, the UK has given £ 25 billion, which is 0:10:44.130 --> 0:10:56.550 $ 50 billion Australian. So Australia's $ 1. 9 billion in comparison. You 0:10:56.610 --> 0:10:58.050 can see the difference there. 0:11:01.390 --> 0:11:05.440 Do you think Vladimir Putin thinks that he's winning this war? 0:11:06.860 --> 0:11:09.040 I don't think he thinks he's winning it. I think 0:11:09.780 --> 0:11:12.200 certainly this battle has gone on far, far longer than 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.020 what he expected. And we've just seen in the recent 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.730 elections he's just been given confirmation of his power. So 0:11:20.450 --> 0:11:23.080 he doesn't think that that war has harmed him in 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.640 any way politically. But of course, he has millions of people, 0:11:27.700 --> 0:11:30.040 he's just drafting in more and more and more. And 0:11:30.179 --> 0:11:33.240 I think he's trying to wear down Ukraine. But Ukraine 0:11:33.260 --> 0:11:38.550 has been so steadfast and so determined that people I'm 0:11:38.630 --> 0:11:45.810 speaking to involved in the military areas, the operations, Ukraine 0:11:45.929 --> 0:11:48.530 are now a little bit concerned about as well that 0:11:48.710 --> 0:11:51.410 when the war finishes and hopefully that's as soon as 0:11:51.470 --> 0:11:58.210 possible that they will have a generation of battle-hardened young 0:11:58.350 --> 0:12:03.120 people and they're really worried how does the country come 0:12:03.170 --> 0:12:06.459 back from that how do you deal with all of 0:12:06.540 --> 0:12:09.970 these people and who for most of their young lives 0:12:10.010 --> 0:12:13.710 have been fighting and involved in just dreadful warfare and 0:12:13.809 --> 0:12:18.130 seen dreadful things. How does the country actually cope and 0:12:18.170 --> 0:12:21.650 deal with that? And that's something people are already looking 0:12:21.770 --> 0:12:23.859 at and trying to work out what they're going to do. 0:12:26.100 --> 0:12:27.460 Jacqueline Magne, thank you very much. 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:28.420 Thank you. 0:12:31.929 --> 0:12:34.600 Jacqueline Magne is The Australian's Europe correspondent.