WEBVTT - Exploring kinks: making sexual play spicier

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh hello, welcome to healthy Ish, your daily podcast from

0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Body and Soul. I am your host of Felicity Harley,

0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:10.360
<v Speaker 1>researcher TikTok Sensation, and author doctor Esme Luise James joins

0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.760
<v Speaker 1>us today to discuss the evolution of kink. Plus she

0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.040
<v Speaker 1>shares a few simple ways you can bring more spicy

0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.360
<v Speaker 1>play into your sex life. If you like what you

0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.160
<v Speaker 1>hear froms May, I know you will listen in to

0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.360
<v Speaker 1>our really fascinating conversation on extra healthy Ish, where we

0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.280
<v Speaker 1>discuss common sex taboos to stop believing. You can grab

0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:45.080
<v Speaker 1>our sister pod where if you get your podcasts. It's

0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.680
<v Speaker 1>May nice to have you back on the podcast. How's

0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:48.040
<v Speaker 1>it going?

0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.440
<v Speaker 2>It is going so well. I'm just glad to be back.

0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.800
<v Speaker 2>And we had such a great chat last time we did.

0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.440
<v Speaker 1>And I have to have a shout You need a

0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.240
<v Speaker 1>shout out for the doctor in front of your name.

0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Which has happened since last time you're on the podcast.

0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:00.760
<v Speaker 1>How does it feel?

0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.559
<v Speaker 3>It's still sinking in. It only happened about four days

0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.679
<v Speaker 3>ago now. So I'm kind of doing the swapover of

0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.840
<v Speaker 3>my driver's license, my passport, and I feel like I'm

0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.800
<v Speaker 3>going to be the arrogant person on the plane. Now,

0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:16.400
<v Speaker 3>if anyone calls for a doctor.

0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.840
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, own it, own it and champion it,

0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.120
<v Speaker 1>because damn you earn it. Whoever has a doctor, you

0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:27.240
<v Speaker 1>earn it. Now, talk to us about kink. I feel

0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.520
<v Speaker 1>like we're becoming perhaps a bit more relaxed about this term.

0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.120
<v Speaker 1>What are you experiencing. I mean, you're at the call face,

0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.960
<v Speaker 1>you see people's comments, You've got a massive online following.

0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:38.880
<v Speaker 1>How do we feel about kink today?

0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.640
<v Speaker 3>I think the conversation is changing quite rapidly. You know,

0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.679
<v Speaker 3>you only go back ten fifteen years on the internet,

0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.320
<v Speaker 3>and we have that idea of don't kink shamee me

0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.080
<v Speaker 3>kind of going around in millennial discourse on MySpace, the

0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.720
<v Speaker 3>idea of, you know, don't yuck someone's yum.

0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.160
<v Speaker 2>But that conversation is changing.

0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.000
<v Speaker 3>Really quickly now because we're starting to not see kink

0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.440
<v Speaker 3>as something that's just outside of the normal of sexual play,

0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.200
<v Speaker 3>somethink that only a few freaky people like to get into.

0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.040
<v Speaker 3>We're starting to understand, in the same way as we

0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:20.200
<v Speaker 3>understood in ancient times, that kink and exploration in the

0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:24.200
<v Speaker 3>bedroom is a very very natural part of human sexuality,

0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.560
<v Speaker 3>and that need to kind of explore different dimensions of

0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.320
<v Speaker 3>how we can get as sexual pleasure is something we've

0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.320
<v Speaker 3>always been incredibly interested in, and it's really nice to

0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.160
<v Speaker 3>see that that conversation is starting to shift to more

0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.000
<v Speaker 3>of a normalization of different forms of play in the bedroom.

0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.359
<v Speaker 1>Do you think the definition of kink has opened up

0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:49.320
<v Speaker 1>in some ways because or well, yeah, perhaps do what

0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:50.040
<v Speaker 1>are your thoughts?

0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.480
<v Speaker 3>The idea of kink normally encompasses when it was first

0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.840
<v Speaker 3>kind of created as a term. When you have the

0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:01.520
<v Speaker 3>likes of Sigmund Freud and Carved von air Being and everything,

0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.359
<v Speaker 3>you know, they define kink, and the idea of it

0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:08.079
<v Speaker 3>was to define what sexual practices are not normal, which

0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.320
<v Speaker 3>I think is really important to remember that kink was

0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.680
<v Speaker 3>never meant to be like a term of empowerment. It

0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.080
<v Speaker 3>was essentially a term to diagnose perversion. But that is

0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.360
<v Speaker 3>really really quickly changing, as we've said, to this idea

0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:26.040
<v Speaker 3>of embracing kinks and other forms of play. And also

0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.680
<v Speaker 3>kink is very cultural in its definition. So if kink

0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:35.040
<v Speaker 3>defines something that isn't normal, and in some cultures oral

0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:39.560
<v Speaker 3>sex could be a kink, you know, that's not sexual

0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:44.040
<v Speaker 3>behavior that's productive to procreation right, Whereas kink, because we

0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:48.440
<v Speaker 3>might define it here in Australia, for instance, generally encompasses

0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.240
<v Speaker 3>people who might want to explore bondage in the bedroom,

0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.760
<v Speaker 3>handcuffs and feathers, different central forms of play. We have

0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.960
<v Speaker 3>a very different definition of kink. So I think it's

0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.280
<v Speaker 3>really starting to own to be a more fluid term

0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.720
<v Speaker 3>just to encompass play.

0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.560
<v Speaker 2>As I say, I think play is a really good

0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:08.440
<v Speaker 2>way to define it.

0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, perhaps we should well rename it play rather than kink,

0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.920
<v Speaker 1>because you're right back to the Freud days. It has

0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.840
<v Speaker 1>got a bit of a negative connotation, hasn't it, And

0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.240
<v Speaker 1>now we should just call it play play.

0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.240
<v Speaker 2>And there's a part of the king community that does,

0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:24.880
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.920
<v Speaker 3>We we use the term play to kind of describe

0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.120
<v Speaker 3>going into different scenarios, you know, to start a role play,

0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.560
<v Speaker 3>for instance, to start exploring different parts of your senses.

0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.000
<v Speaker 3>It's generally called play, which I think is a very

0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:43.000
<v Speaker 3>great term because it kind of encompasses this idea of joy, right,

0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:49.000
<v Speaker 3>this idea of imagination and different ways that we can

0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.680
<v Speaker 3>stimulate sexual desire that we don't often talk about, or

0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.000
<v Speaker 3>we definitely don't learn about when we have sex education

0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:57.400
<v Speaker 3>and it.

0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Feels perhaps more accessible, like that something that we can

0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.039
<v Speaker 1>all do and normalized and that it's okay and there's

0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:04.960
<v Speaker 1>no shame around it.

0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:05.920
<v Speaker 2>M mmm hmm.

0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.640
<v Speaker 3>I think it's interesting because even I've got this book

0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.960
<v Speaker 3>that I'm looking at on my bookshelf right now, and

0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.600
<v Speaker 3>the book's called Kink, and it's a fantastic book, great

0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:15.920
<v Speaker 3>kind of fictional collection of short stories.

0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.839
<v Speaker 2>But the book is black with big red writing.

0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.120
<v Speaker 3>And I think that when we hear that word kink,

0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.000
<v Speaker 3>that's what we think of, right, we think Christian gray

0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:29.719
<v Speaker 3>and black leather and dark dungeons and spikes in this

0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.440
<v Speaker 3>kind of bit of a bit scary, and you know what,

0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.560
<v Speaker 3>do you know what? Some people are definitely into that.

0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:39.280
<v Speaker 3>But king can be as simple as playing with feathers

0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.560
<v Speaker 3>in the bedroom, you know, particuling your partner, role playing

0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:49.520
<v Speaker 3>as anything, role playing as your favorite fictional character, dressing

0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.520
<v Speaker 3>up as mister Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. That's my

0:05:52.520 --> 0:06:01.080
<v Speaker 3>favorite kind of play. It encompasses such a range of things, right, that's.

0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:01.520
<v Speaker 2>A good one.

0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.039
<v Speaker 1>What are some fun I'm going to call them kink's

0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:11.200
<v Speaker 1>slash plays from history that perhaps a popular amongst your

0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.720
<v Speaker 1>followers or that you think are really interesting. Tell us

0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:14.440
<v Speaker 1>some some.

0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.480
<v Speaker 3>Of the ones that I find really interesting from history,

0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.680
<v Speaker 3>and the eighteenth century is my favorite area of history

0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.560
<v Speaker 3>to study. But there was kind of an explosion of

0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.800
<v Speaker 3>kink play across Europe during the eighteenth century.

0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:30.960
<v Speaker 2>And it became quite fashionable.

0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.200
<v Speaker 3>And it feels strange to say this now, but spanking

0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:40.320
<v Speaker 3>became really fashionable. We were writing pamphlets and plays and

0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:45.600
<v Speaker 3>brothels across London were offering spanking sessions so much so

0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.520
<v Speaker 3>that you could literally and men could leave their workplace

0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.919
<v Speaker 3>at lunchtime, go for a quick spank and come back

0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.760
<v Speaker 3>and it was seen as right.

0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.040
<v Speaker 2>It's bizarre, now, can you imagine.

0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:04.800
<v Speaker 3>No, But there was this idea that playing right. Oh,

0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.640
<v Speaker 3>it's so bizarre that spanking wasn't just something that was sexual.

0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:10.000
<v Speaker 2>But they had this.

0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Idea which is rooted in, you know, somewhat physical fact

0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.920
<v Speaker 3>that spanking would help be productive to like your blood

0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.320
<v Speaker 3>flow and you know, producing a healthy body, and it

0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.280
<v Speaker 3>would make you more sexually and vigorous because you are

0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.720
<v Speaker 3>pushing all the blood to your lower regions, and it

0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:31.800
<v Speaker 3>would make you a better lover.

0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And so spanking was considered something.

0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.520
<v Speaker 3>That was actually quite healthy, especially for men to partake him.

0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think about that idea now because.

0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.120
<v Speaker 3>Spanking when we do studies is one of the most

0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.640
<v Speaker 3>common forms. Is like any kind of kinky play in

0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.360
<v Speaker 3>the bedroom, that's one of the most accessible things that

0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.280
<v Speaker 3>when couples people are trying to start to explore, spanking

0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:55.480
<v Speaker 3>comes to mind pretty quickly.

0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:56.800
<v Speaker 2>And I just love that.

0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Only you know, two hundred years ago we were popping

0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.520
<v Speaker 3>off at lund time to explore the same.

0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Thing for a quick spank. What do you think as

0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.760
<v Speaker 1>some of the most popular kinks today.

0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.720
<v Speaker 3>Most popular kinks that people play with today. I mean,

0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm kind of incorporating some fetishes in here as well. Now,

0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.000
<v Speaker 3>foot play is one of the most across all surveys.

0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.200
<v Speaker 3>Exploring anything to do with feet is always number one

0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.960
<v Speaker 3>or number two. Looking at other forms of kink playing,

0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, we've mentioned spanking as one of the kind

0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:34.160
<v Speaker 3>of immediate ways, almost like as a gateway into the kin.

0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Spanking is often quite high up there. Role play.

0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.200
<v Speaker 3>Role play is one of the most popular forms of

0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.679
<v Speaker 3>kind of any kind of kink play, and I think

0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.600
<v Speaker 3>it's really great to see it up there because what

0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.800
<v Speaker 3>we don't talk about in a lot of our ways

0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:50.920
<v Speaker 3>to kind of improve our life in.

0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.560
<v Speaker 2>The bedroom is exploring imagination.

0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.800
<v Speaker 3>Imagination is so productive to stimulating sexual pleasure, especially for women.

0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Women often say that this is one of the aspects

0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.320
<v Speaker 3>of the bedroom that.

0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Is most important to them. Right This idea of.

0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:12.080
<v Speaker 3>Fantasy and roleplay can be a really good way to

0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.679
<v Speaker 3>help you share your inhibitions a little bit if you're

0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.280
<v Speaker 3>wanting to explore, you know, maybe dynamics of dominance and

0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.800
<v Speaker 3>submission in the bedroom. Being able to come in and

0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.400
<v Speaker 3>dress up as a doctor, for instance, might help you

0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.679
<v Speaker 3>kind of get out of yourself and become a character

0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.079
<v Speaker 3>and explore an element of sexual play that otherwise you

0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.360
<v Speaker 3>would feel too shy to.

0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Great advice as May, and well done on the doctor

0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:38.160
<v Speaker 1>and talk to me.

0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for coming on Healthy.

0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's some DearS for some spicier sexual play tonight,

0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.600
<v Speaker 1>and I will lable link to es May's last chat

0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.120
<v Speaker 1>on extra healthy Ish. In the show notes, we talked

0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.560
<v Speaker 1>more about kink as well anything else said to Body

0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:58.160
<v Speaker 1>and soul dot com. Do are you for us and socials?

0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Grab our print edition which is out in your local

0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Sunday paper. Thanks again for listening and stay healthy