Speaker 1: Oh hello, welcome to healthy Ish, your daily podcast from
Speaker 1: Body and Soul. I am your host of Felicity Harley,
Speaker 1: researcher TikTok Sensation, and author doctor Esme Luise James joins
Speaker 1: us today to discuss the evolution of kink. Plus she
Speaker 1: shares a few simple ways you can bring more spicy
Speaker 1: play into your sex life. If you like what you
Speaker 1: hear froms May, I know you will listen in to
Speaker 1: our really fascinating conversation on extra healthy Ish, where we
Speaker 1: discuss common sex taboos to stop believing. You can grab
Speaker 1: our sister pod where if you get your podcasts. It's
Speaker 1: May nice to have you back on the podcast. How's
Speaker 1: it going?
Speaker 2: It is going so well. I'm just glad to be back.
Speaker 2: And we had such a great chat last time we did.
Speaker 1: And I have to have a shout You need a
Speaker 1: shout out for the doctor in front of your name.
Speaker 1: Which has happened since last time you're on the podcast.
Speaker 1: How does it feel?
Speaker 3: It's still sinking in. It only happened about four days
Speaker 3: ago now. So I'm kind of doing the swapover of
Speaker 3: my driver's license, my passport, and I feel like I'm
Speaker 3: going to be the arrogant person on the plane. Now,
Speaker 3: if anyone calls for a doctor.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, own it, own it and champion it,
Speaker 1: because damn you earn it. Whoever has a doctor, you
Speaker 1: earn it. Now, talk to us about kink. I feel
Speaker 1: like we're becoming perhaps a bit more relaxed about this term.
Speaker 1: What are you experiencing. I mean, you're at the call face,
Speaker 1: you see people's comments, You've got a massive online following.
Speaker 1: How do we feel about kink today?
Speaker 3: I think the conversation is changing quite rapidly. You know,
Speaker 3: you only go back ten fifteen years on the internet,
Speaker 3: and we have that idea of don't kink shamee me
Speaker 3: kind of going around in millennial discourse on MySpace, the
Speaker 3: idea of, you know, don't yuck someone's yum.
Speaker 2: But that conversation is changing.
Speaker 3: Really quickly now because we're starting to not see kink
Speaker 3: as something that's just outside of the normal of sexual play,
Speaker 3: somethink that only a few freaky people like to get into.
Speaker 3: We're starting to understand, in the same way as we
Speaker 3: understood in ancient times, that kink and exploration in the
Speaker 3: bedroom is a very very natural part of human sexuality,
Speaker 3: and that need to kind of explore different dimensions of
Speaker 3: how we can get as sexual pleasure is something we've
Speaker 3: always been incredibly interested in, and it's really nice to
Speaker 3: see that that conversation is starting to shift to more
Speaker 3: of a normalization of different forms of play in the bedroom.
Speaker 1: Do you think the definition of kink has opened up
Speaker 1: in some ways because or well, yeah, perhaps do what
Speaker 1: are your thoughts?
Speaker 3: The idea of kink normally encompasses when it was first
Speaker 3: kind of created as a term. When you have the
Speaker 3: likes of Sigmund Freud and Carved von air Being and everything,
Speaker 3: you know, they define kink, and the idea of it
Speaker 3: was to define what sexual practices are not normal, which
Speaker 3: I think is really important to remember that kink was
Speaker 3: never meant to be like a term of empowerment. It
Speaker 3: was essentially a term to diagnose perversion. But that is
Speaker 3: really really quickly changing, as we've said, to this idea
Speaker 3: of embracing kinks and other forms of play. And also
Speaker 3: kink is very cultural in its definition. So if kink
Speaker 3: defines something that isn't normal, and in some cultures oral
Speaker 3: sex could be a kink, you know, that's not sexual
Speaker 3: behavior that's productive to procreation right, Whereas kink, because we
Speaker 3: might define it here in Australia, for instance, generally encompasses
Speaker 3: people who might want to explore bondage in the bedroom,
Speaker 3: handcuffs and feathers, different central forms of play. We have
Speaker 3: a very different definition of kink. So I think it's
Speaker 3: really starting to own to be a more fluid term
Speaker 3: just to encompass play.
Speaker 2: As I say, I think play is a really good
Speaker 2: way to define it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, perhaps we should well rename it play rather than kink,
Speaker 1: because you're right back to the Freud days. It has
Speaker 1: got a bit of a negative connotation, hasn't it, And
Speaker 1: now we should just call it play play.
Speaker 2: And there's a part of the king community that does,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: We we use the term play to kind of describe
Speaker 3: going into different scenarios, you know, to start a role play,
Speaker 3: for instance, to start exploring different parts of your senses.
Speaker 3: It's generally called play, which I think is a very
Speaker 3: great term because it kind of encompasses this idea of joy, right,
Speaker 3: this idea of imagination and different ways that we can
Speaker 3: stimulate sexual desire that we don't often talk about, or
Speaker 3: we definitely don't learn about when we have sex education
Speaker 3: and it.
Speaker 1: Feels perhaps more accessible, like that something that we can
Speaker 1: all do and normalized and that it's okay and there's
Speaker 1: no shame around it.
Speaker 2: M mmm hmm.
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting because even I've got this book
Speaker 3: that I'm looking at on my bookshelf right now, and
Speaker 3: the book's called Kink, and it's a fantastic book, great
Speaker 3: kind of fictional collection of short stories.
Speaker 2: But the book is black with big red writing.
Speaker 3: And I think that when we hear that word kink,
Speaker 3: that's what we think of, right, we think Christian gray
Speaker 3: and black leather and dark dungeons and spikes in this
Speaker 3: kind of bit of a bit scary, and you know what,
Speaker 3: do you know what? Some people are definitely into that.
Speaker 3: But king can be as simple as playing with feathers
Speaker 3: in the bedroom, you know, particuling your partner, role playing
Speaker 3: as anything, role playing as your favorite fictional character, dressing
Speaker 3: up as mister Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. That's my
Speaker 3: favorite kind of play. It encompasses such a range of things, right, that's.
Speaker 2: A good one.
Speaker 1: What are some fun I'm going to call them kink's
Speaker 1: slash plays from history that perhaps a popular amongst your
Speaker 1: followers or that you think are really interesting. Tell us
Speaker 1: some some.
Speaker 3: Of the ones that I find really interesting from history,
Speaker 3: and the eighteenth century is my favorite area of history
Speaker 3: to study. But there was kind of an explosion of
Speaker 3: kink play across Europe during the eighteenth century.
Speaker 2: And it became quite fashionable.
Speaker 3: And it feels strange to say this now, but spanking
Speaker 3: became really fashionable. We were writing pamphlets and plays and
Speaker 3: brothels across London were offering spanking sessions so much so
Speaker 3: that you could literally and men could leave their workplace
Speaker 3: at lunchtime, go for a quick spank and come back
Speaker 3: and it was seen as right.
Speaker 2: It's bizarre, now, can you imagine.
Speaker 3: No, But there was this idea that playing right. Oh,
Speaker 3: it's so bizarre that spanking wasn't just something that was sexual.
Speaker 2: But they had this.
Speaker 3: Idea which is rooted in, you know, somewhat physical fact
Speaker 3: that spanking would help be productive to like your blood
Speaker 3: flow and you know, producing a healthy body, and it
Speaker 3: would make you more sexually and vigorous because you are
Speaker 3: pushing all the blood to your lower regions, and it
Speaker 3: would make you a better lover.
Speaker 2: And so spanking was considered something.
Speaker 3: That was actually quite healthy, especially for men to partake him.
Speaker 2: And I think about that idea now because.
Speaker 3: Spanking when we do studies is one of the most
Speaker 3: common forms. Is like any kind of kinky play in
Speaker 3: the bedroom, that's one of the most accessible things that
Speaker 3: when couples people are trying to start to explore, spanking
Speaker 3: comes to mind pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: And I just love that.
Speaker 3: Only you know, two hundred years ago we were popping
Speaker 3: off at lund time to explore the same.
Speaker 1: Thing for a quick spank. What do you think as
Speaker 1: some of the most popular kinks today.
Speaker 3: Most popular kinks that people play with today. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of incorporating some fetishes in here as well. Now,
Speaker 3: foot play is one of the most across all surveys.
Speaker 3: Exploring anything to do with feet is always number one
Speaker 3: or number two. Looking at other forms of kink playing,
Speaker 3: you know, we've mentioned spanking as one of the kind
Speaker 3: of immediate ways, almost like as a gateway into the kin.
Speaker 2: Spanking is often quite high up there. Role play.
Speaker 3: Role play is one of the most popular forms of
Speaker 3: kind of any kind of kink play, and I think
Speaker 3: it's really great to see it up there because what
Speaker 3: we don't talk about in a lot of our ways
Speaker 3: to kind of improve our life in.
Speaker 2: The bedroom is exploring imagination.
Speaker 3: Imagination is so productive to stimulating sexual pleasure, especially for women.
Speaker 3: Women often say that this is one of the aspects
Speaker 3: of the bedroom that.
Speaker 2: Is most important to them. Right This idea of.
Speaker 3: Fantasy and roleplay can be a really good way to
Speaker 3: help you share your inhibitions a little bit if you're
Speaker 3: wanting to explore, you know, maybe dynamics of dominance and
Speaker 3: submission in the bedroom. Being able to come in and
Speaker 3: dress up as a doctor, for instance, might help you
Speaker 3: kind of get out of yourself and become a character
Speaker 3: and explore an element of sexual play that otherwise you
Speaker 3: would feel too shy to.
Speaker 1: Great advice as May, and well done on the doctor
Speaker 1: and talk to me.
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on Healthy.
Speaker 1: Well, there's some DearS for some spicier sexual play tonight,
Speaker 1: and I will lable link to es May's last chat
Speaker 1: on extra healthy Ish. In the show notes, we talked
Speaker 1: more about kink as well anything else said to Body
Speaker 1: and soul dot com. Do are you for us and socials?
Speaker 1: Grab our print edition which is out in your local
Speaker 1: Sunday paper. Thanks again for listening and stay healthy