Speaker 1: I get a Champs, it's jumbo, it's fatty Harps, it's
Speaker 1: doctor Market's doctor Tiff over there at the Cook clinic.
Speaker 1: Where what do you specialize in? Again, doctor Cook? What's
Speaker 1: your specialty?
Speaker 2: All of the things, punching in the face, noodling, whippets,
Speaker 2: m yeah, arangling.
Speaker 1: Sounds like the ultimate therapy package. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 1: You don't really have much on the actual doc because
Speaker 1: he's a doctor times three. He's got two PhDs and
Speaker 1: he's a medical doctor, so he's a doctor thrice, which
Speaker 1: is I'm trying to become a doctor once. And that's
Speaker 1: the fucking academic Mount Everest for me. But how old
Speaker 1: were you?
Speaker 3: Doc?
Speaker 1: Firstly, welcome Mark, How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm great? Yeah, thanks for inviting me again.
Speaker 1: How old were you when you were a medical doctor
Speaker 1: and you had your first and second doctorate?
Speaker 3: At?
Speaker 1: What age?
Speaker 3: Was that? Good question? So I took time off my
Speaker 3: medical degree to do a PhD.
Speaker 2: Then I went back into my medical degree, so I
Speaker 2: think it was about it might have been like twenty
Speaker 2: eight when I did finish my first doctor and I
Speaker 2: was one of the youngest professors. I was a professor
Speaker 2: at thirty seven and then I had my second PhD
Speaker 2: and my medical degree.
Speaker 1: Wow wow, I love learning.
Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time at UNI. I just
Speaker 3: love learning. I'm interested.
Speaker 1: This is a dumb call. Well maybe it's not a
Speaker 1: dumb question, but I know you can't be objective about you.
Speaker 1: But are you highly intelligent, highly curious, very disciplined, very
Speaker 1: hard worker, or what is the overarching factor that allows
Speaker 1: you to be a doctor? Times three?
Speaker 2: I am curious And the thing I focused on my
Speaker 2: whole life is fun, Like what is the most fun
Speaker 2: thing to do? And I always thought it was more
Speaker 2: fun to learn than to just work and make money.
Speaker 2: So I just I love being at UNI in that
Speaker 2: environment and learning and learning new things. So for me,
Speaker 2: it was about curiousity, what's the most fun? And I
Speaker 2: studied medicine cause I thought that would teach me how
Speaker 2: to have fun in life because I learned how to
Speaker 2: body works and how the mind works.
Speaker 3: So that's my that's.
Speaker 2: Really curiosity and a focus on fun. It's been my
Speaker 2: sort of secret weapon.
Speaker 1: What's funny you say that? No pun intended, funny cookie,
Speaker 1: feel free to jump in and out at will. So
Speaker 1: I just want to read what's on your on your
Speaker 1: his could come back to haunt you. So on your homepage,
Speaker 1: I feel like you're under whoever your PR person is,
Speaker 1: they need to do better. I assume it's you. There's
Speaker 1: professor slash doctor Mark Cohen, wellness consultant, biohacker. Well, that
Speaker 1: could be Brian down the road who's never been to UNI.
Speaker 1: Talk about underselling yourself, but I guess you can't write genius,
Speaker 1: and you wrote I bridge advanced science and ancient wisdom
Speaker 1: and offer simple, practical solutions that help you find fun,
Speaker 1: makes sense of life, master your mind and body, tame
Speaker 1: your toxic load, Live happy, healthy, and long. Now I'm
Speaker 1: sure you wrote that a while ago, but those five things.
Speaker 1: Find the fun, makes sense of life, master your mind
Speaker 1: and body, tame your toxic load, and live happy, healthy,
Speaker 1: and long. I want to lean into those in what
Speaker 1: might become too small podcasts rather than big one one
Speaker 1: big one. So are you ready to go? Because I
Speaker 1: want to start with finding the fun.
Speaker 3: Sure, that's always fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that seems like a very interesting I don't
Speaker 1: know that there would be too many people in the
Speaker 1: world who have done medicine because they thought it might
Speaker 1: help them have fun. I'm not saying it's not a
Speaker 1: good idea. Where did that correlation come from in your head?
Speaker 2: I I think I've always been very strategic, and when
Speaker 2: I was in you know, I was I went to
Speaker 2: Melbourne High School and I was good academically. I wasn't
Speaker 2: a genius Academically, it's good. I just didn't have to
Speaker 2: get through in the top a few percent. But I
Speaker 2: really just thought about, Okay, I could go to engineering
Speaker 2: or law or medicine. I thought, like, what's going to
Speaker 2: teach me how the most fun and fulfilling life? And
Speaker 2: I saw people going into banking and hedge funds and money.
Speaker 2: I was never really interested in money for the sake
Speaker 2: of money. I thought, I want to learn how to
Speaker 2: engage in life and have the most fun with my
Speaker 2: body and to have been fulfilled and be healthy and happy.
Speaker 2: And I figured medicine would do that. So it was
Speaker 2: a strategic decision for me to get into medicine. And
Speaker 2: it wasn't about I never really wanted to help sick
Speaker 2: people get healthy. I wanted to get healthy people super healthy.
Speaker 2: And I saw myself as just an ordinary person. But
Speaker 2: so how can I stay healthy? How can I improve
Speaker 2: with age? I remember studying Chinese medicine, and you read
Speaker 2: about these Chinese martial artists and meditation teachers who get
Speaker 2: better as they get older. Yeah, you get these like
Speaker 2: seventy year old little martial art masters who throw twenty
Speaker 2: five year old buff guys around. And I want that,
Speaker 2: I want to get better as I get older, and
Speaker 2: that that curiosity sort of led me through this whole
Speaker 2: part of Western medicine, Chinese medicine, engineering, and sort of
Speaker 2: wellness practices.
Speaker 1: What year did you start medicine, do you remember? Okay,
Speaker 1: so that was your first year out of school. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: me too, wow, with the same age. And I guess
Speaker 1: the medical model correct me if I'm wrong. But back
Speaker 1: then was, as you alluded to, was very much, you know,
Speaker 1: treating sick people rather than promoting healthy very much reactive,
Speaker 1: not proactive.
Speaker 3: That's right. Health promotion was just a very nascent field.
Speaker 1: Then.
Speaker 2: You know, wellness wasn't even a word that you heard,
Speaker 2: so that's right. An alternative medicine was pretty sort of
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Back to our topic, finding the fun. So what's the
Speaker 1: role of fun, laughter and joy in our lives as
Speaker 1: you see it? Like, what are the and what are
Speaker 1: the you know, when we're in business, we talk about features, advantages,
Speaker 1: and benefits, like here's an idea, here's a concept, here's
Speaker 1: a business model, or here's a product, features, advantages, benefits.
Speaker 1: What roles I mean, other than the obvious that fun
Speaker 1: is fun and we like laughter? What role can fun
Speaker 1: laughter enjoy play? And should we be strategic about it?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 2: So fun is often considered frivolous. You know, it's something
Speaker 2: you do in your leisure time. It's not a serious pursuit.
Speaker 2: But I think I have an opposite view. I think
Speaker 2: fun is a is a really basic biological, fundamental principle,
Speaker 2: and you have fun when you're on the edge of
Speaker 2: your capacity and there's a whole lot of you know,
Speaker 2: I tap into the research on flow states. So we
Speaker 2: have a certain capacity and we have certain challenges. And
Speaker 2: if your capacity is way beyond your challenges, now it
Speaker 2: means you can do things easily, but you sort of
Speaker 2: get bored.
Speaker 3: You're not fully engaged, and you know you can do stuff.
Speaker 2: You're competent, but you're not really using one hundred percent
Speaker 2: of your capacity. And to be boring, if your challenges
Speaker 2: are way above your capacity, it's stressful and you know
Speaker 2: you can panic and you have anxiety because you know
Speaker 2: what you need to do is beyond your skill set.
Speaker 2: But when you hit a point where your capacity exactly
Speaker 2: matches your challenges, that's that's fun, that's flow state. That's
Speaker 2: when you're you're learning. And generally, what happens when your
Speaker 2: capacity meets your challenges, your capacity naturally increases. You get
Speaker 2: because when you're on that edge, you start learning stuff.
Speaker 2: And if you have a look at little kids, you know,
Speaker 2: when you're a kid, you're learning stuff and it's really
Speaker 2: enjoyable actually, and I really believe you learn the most
Speaker 2: when you're having fun with it.
Speaker 3: And that's pushing your boundary as a person.
Speaker 2: And it might be physical capacity, it might be mental capacity,
Speaker 2: might be intellectual capacity. But when you really find something
Speaker 2: that matches your capacity and it requires one hundred percent
Speaker 2: of your focus and attention and physical skills, that's when
Speaker 2: you're most engaged with life. That's when you're the most
Speaker 2: fulfilled by life. And that's when your body works as
Speaker 2: a single unit, and that's when you're healthiest.
Speaker 3: So these things are correlated.
Speaker 2: And generally what happens is as you get older, your
Speaker 2: capacity increases, so you need bigger challenges, you end up
Speaker 2: doing more. And I find now that I still don't
Speaker 2: know what I'm going to do when I grow up.
Speaker 1: Options, Yeah, you and me both, I'm figuring it out,
Speaker 1: but I feel like that, Sorry, there's a real benefit
Speaker 1: in consciously choosing, intentionally choosing to do hard things that
Speaker 1: you don't have to do, you know, like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is hard, but you know, I'm not talking about reckless hard.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about strategic, but still nonetheless difficult, you know, uncomfortable, unfamiliar,
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And it's in the doing of that
Speaker 1: and then inserting ourselves in the middle of that hard
Speaker 1: stuff that we become different.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like I put up something on social media this
Speaker 1: morning and said something like, you know, we don't need
Speaker 1: less pressure, we need more resilience. And it's then when
Speaker 1: I'm more resilient because pressure is an individual experience, because
Speaker 1: you and I can be in the same situation. I
Speaker 1: feel pressured, you feel happy. So it's a subjective interpretation.
Speaker 1: It's a self creation.
Speaker 2: And that's your that's based on your capacity and your
Speaker 2: mental capacity of you know, knowing what you're able to
Speaker 2: do and actually and so I love learning that I
Speaker 2: can do stuff I didn't know that I could do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really enjoyable. And you're right.
Speaker 2: By putting yourself in a difficult situation, whether it's going
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning, going for a run and
Speaker 2: jumping in an ice bath, or putting yourself in an
Speaker 2: uncomfortable position just to prove to yourself that you can
Speaker 2: cope with that, and practicing being relaxed in an uncomfortable
Speaker 2: situation builds that resilience, It builds that capacity, so you
Speaker 2: actually have more fun doing other stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And the thing that was heavy for
Speaker 1: you or hard for you, or difficult for you or
Speaker 1: painful for you becomes relatively doable and easy, even though
Speaker 1: the stimulus is the same, or the weight is the same,
Speaker 1: or the temperature of the water is the same or
Speaker 1: the number whatever. But you're different. So the subjective experience
Speaker 1: of that thing that doesn't change changes.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: And so has having to spend longer in the ice
Speaker 2: bark or you have to do more than lift heavier
Speaker 2: weight for whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I was talking about. I wrote this morning about something
Speaker 1: It's like when I first like years and years ago,
Speaker 1: thirty years ago, when I first started talking to big audiences,
Speaker 1: and by big for me then you know, like one
Speaker 1: hundred plus people in real time. I remember when I
Speaker 1: did Early Days in my twenties, still like a gig
Speaker 1: with five hundred people, and I was so terrified there.
Speaker 1: I didn't sleep and I felt immense pressure, right, which
Speaker 1: that was I created it. It's just a room full
Speaker 1: of people, right. But now in the same situation, I
Speaker 1: feel immense excitement and comfort and familiarity because I've done it.
Speaker 1: But it's the same guy doing essentially the same thing
Speaker 1: in front of the same sized audience. But there is
Speaker 1: no pressure, when in fact, the only thing that has
Speaker 1: really changed is the creator of the pressure. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had similar experiences when I was younger, you know,
Speaker 2: speaking to audiences and conferences and things. I guess you
Speaker 2: don't want to embarrass yourself, and you know, you want
Speaker 2: to be seen in a good light, so it's actually
Speaker 2: you become.
Speaker 3: Very self conscious.
Speaker 2: Yes, as I've gotten older, I realize, you know, if
Speaker 2: I'm speaking to big audiences, I'm really keen to share
Speaker 2: the content that I have and to impart that and
Speaker 2: it's a more of a dialogue, so it's not about
Speaker 2: me trying to present myself, you know, and you are
Speaker 2: trying to present yourself as an authority and deliver information
Speaker 2: and be seen in a good light. But it's more
Speaker 2: of actually engaging with the audience and sharing content. And
Speaker 2: that's exciting to be able to share that content. So
Speaker 2: it's more exciting than scary.
Speaker 1: Is it true that we kind of naturally laugh less
Speaker 1: as we get older? I feel like I read something
Speaker 1: once it said kids laugh laugh. I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is, eighty four times a day and adults laugh
Speaker 1: on average twice or something like some huge discrepancy.
Speaker 2: I think that I don't know the actual statistics. I'm
Speaker 2: sure that's true.
Speaker 3: Kids have a.
Speaker 2: Lot more playtime you free, and kids learnt. The rate
Speaker 2: the kids learn is way beyond what the rate that
Speaker 2: adults learn. And I really believe that you learn the
Speaker 2: most when you're having fun, when you're laughing, when you're
Speaker 2: enjoying yourself, and that's when your capacity increases.
Speaker 3: And it's also that laughter, Like even in the joke,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: You get taken down one route and then the punchline
Speaker 2: comes and tells you something else and you're making these
Speaker 2: new brain connections. Oh, I didn't know that was connected
Speaker 2: to that, and that creates a laughter response With kids.
Speaker 2: When you're learning new stuff, it's enjoyable because you're making
Speaker 2: new connections in your brain.
Speaker 3: You're increasing your capacity to link things in life.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think as we get older, we get
Speaker 2: ossified and the entropy sets in. We become closed systems,
Speaker 2: and then we have chronic disease, we have inflammation, we
Speaker 2: have more mental rigidity, and we don't laugh as much,
Speaker 2: we don't have as much fun, and that's the tragity
Speaker 2: of aging.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, And also that that minds that
Speaker 1: almost like that, oh, well you're this old, therefore you
Speaker 1: need to do these things and not do those things.
Speaker 1: It's like age appropriate behavior. Oh that's not age appropriate,
Speaker 1: age appropriate fucking clothing age. I'm like, what even is that?
Speaker 2: Well, that's social pressure, and that's caring about what other
Speaker 2: people think. You're the same with public speaking. When you
Speaker 2: care more about what other people think, you end up
Speaker 2: compromising yea, who you are rather than just being who
Speaker 2: you are, being that naturally and let other people think
Speaker 2: what they want. And that's hard to do because where
Speaker 2: humans are social beings, we need other people around us
Speaker 2: to look after us and take care of us and
Speaker 2: respect us and think that we're good. So to go
Speaker 2: through life and not caring at all what other people
Speaker 2: think is actually a really difficult thing to do. But
Speaker 2: it doing stuff because of what other people think is
Speaker 2: actually a recipe for unhappiness. You can't control what other
Speaker 2: people think.
Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing how much Tiff and I have
Speaker 1: spoken about this, how much emotion we invest in caring
Speaker 1: about what people that we don't know think or write
Speaker 1: or comment. And it's like I could get one hundred
Speaker 1: positive comments and one negative one and guess we'll get
Speaker 1: Guess what will get the attention, you know, and guess
Speaker 1: what will get my emotional investment?
Speaker 3: Well, that'sary response. You really don't want to know.
Speaker 2: The risks of a small negative thing is potentially life threatening,
Speaker 2: so you don't want to ignore, you know, or risks.
Speaker 2: But in the modern world, because we can amplify our reach.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know how many people are going
Speaker 2: to hear this podcast, but you know, if you thought, Okay,
Speaker 2: I only want to say stuff that every all the
Speaker 2: audience is going to like, it's paralyzing, but you can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a very valid point. I I've quoted this.
Speaker 1: One of my professors in my first degree said to me,
Speaker 1: mister Harpery goes, if you want to keep everyone happy
Speaker 1: all the time, then say nothing, do nothing, be nothing,
Speaker 1: and stand for nothing.
Speaker 3: And then I'm happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. So there's five parts to
Speaker 1: this kind of I'll call it your mission statement, find
Speaker 1: the one. Number two. Number one is find the fun.
Speaker 1: Number two is make sense of life. Right, so, what
Speaker 1: sense have you made of life?
Speaker 2: I've made lots of sense of life. And I had
Speaker 2: this sort of early in my medical career. I started
Speaker 2: condensing knowledge into little mnemonics and little word games and
Speaker 2: little tricks to compress meaning into a few words. And
Speaker 2: I've been doing that for nearly more than forty years now.
Speaker 2: And it ends up when you condense lots of meaning
Speaker 2: into a few words, it ends up as poetry.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I've written all these, I've shared poems I think
Speaker 3: before with you.
Speaker 2: But I've tried to integrate the Chinese medicine philosophy and
Speaker 2: Chinese cosmology with Western scientific knowledge and.
Speaker 3: Bridge that and come to an understanding of how you know.
Speaker 3: And it's not a co incedance.
Speaker 2: There's five points to my sort of mission statement because
Speaker 2: in both in Western and Eastern philosophy they lump things
Speaker 2: into five You know, you've got five reason So I
Speaker 2: actually lump a lot of things into five compartments, right, And.
Speaker 3: I've when I decide well I'm going to do in life.
Speaker 2: I came up with this a few years ago now
Speaker 2: and really guides what I do. And there are five aspects.
Speaker 2: So if I'm going to do something, it has to
Speaker 2: be fun. That's that's the that's like the momentum. That's
Speaker 2: the driving force behind everything. It has to bring like fortune,
Speaker 2: and that's not just money, but it has to increase
Speaker 2: my resources. So fun and fortune is measurable. They've got
Speaker 2: that the staccato, the fixed in Chinese men to be
Speaker 2: wood element. It has to bring fame and it has
Speaker 2: to not that it has to be famous, but you
Speaker 2: want to leave a legacy of goodwill. So when you
Speaker 2: do stuff, you want people talking good things behind your back.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 2: So you're leaving a positive see behind you people saying
Speaker 2: good things. So fun, fortune, fame, fluency, and that that's
Speaker 2: your own capacity to do stuff. How fluent are you
Speaker 2: the language?
Speaker 3: Fluent? Are you with your body?
Speaker 2: Your ability, your skill set? And the final thing is
Speaker 2: family and friendships. So now I've got so many opportunities
Speaker 2: and things to do in my life, and I get
Speaker 2: all lead to do this or that, and if it
Speaker 2: brings fun, fortune, fame, fluency, and friendships, I do it.
Speaker 2: If it doesn't bring all those five, generally I don't.
Speaker 2: And then this podcast is really fun for me. This
Speaker 2: is fun sharing my my worldview. You know, hopefully people
Speaker 2: say good things about me. It's not really going to
Speaker 2: be me and I don't get paid for this, but
Speaker 2: you know, if it puts that out in the world,
Speaker 2: it makes me fortunate. You know, I'm very fortunate to
Speaker 2: be able to share my views, and that that then
Speaker 2: comes back. I've become more fluent. The more I practice talking,
Speaker 2: public speaking, talking in podcasts, it builds my capacity.
Speaker 3: And you know, now we're friends. So like, ye, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know what I love.
Speaker 1: I love the idea that so you've done, you know,
Speaker 1: multiple degrees and you're a professor and you know all
Speaker 1: this stuff, but at the same time you're still like
Speaker 1: I would think most of your learning has not been
Speaker 1: in an academic well a lot's been in an academic environment,
Speaker 1: but maybe equal has been outside an academic environment, and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm always trying to find a way to share
Speaker 1: ideas and thoughts and occasionally scientific principles or ideas in
Speaker 1: a way that resonates with people. And I think you're
Speaker 1: really good at that. You're taking stuff, feel good at
Speaker 1: taking stuff that could be boring or bland or complicated
Speaker 1: and distilling it into something that's really digestible, like emotionally, psychologically, behaviorally. Oh,
Speaker 1: I get it. Like that's not you know, I think
Speaker 1: finding no disrespect to academics, but finding academics that have
Speaker 1: that capacity to say, well, this is all the stuff
Speaker 1: I've learned, this is what I've been taught and told
Speaker 1: and trained, but also some of that's bullshit a bit,
Speaker 1: and then there's this other stuff that I didn't learn
Speaker 1: that's actually more helpful and empowering. And to bring that
Speaker 1: kind of like the mark distillation, like that synthesis of
Speaker 1: everything you've been taught and told and trained on top
Speaker 1: of the stuff that you've experienced and seen and been
Speaker 1: in the middle of to almost create your own kind
Speaker 1: of philosophical platform.
Speaker 2: Well that's where well I have I mean, I've done
Speaker 2: you a lot of deep research into you know, ancient
Speaker 2: principles because you know, early humans and our ancestors, you know,
Speaker 2: they knew stuff and they condensed that.
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm a student of history and of.
Speaker 2: Medical history specifically, but also I've learned a lot just
Speaker 2: from being I'm being a doctor. You're in a really
Speaker 2: privileged position because you can talk to patients about anything.
Speaker 2: And I mean one of my mentors in the in
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties was a doctor, Patch Adams, So.
Speaker 3: You know him. Robin Williams paid him in the movie
Speaker 3: and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So I became good friends with Patch and he always
Speaker 2: used to say that to be the best doctor, you
Speaker 2: want to create an intimate relationship with your patients.
Speaker 3: So as a doctor, if.
Speaker 2: You're really holding space, you can ask people about you know,
Speaker 2: their wildest dreams, their sexual fantasies, you know the color
Speaker 2: of their shit, you know their childhood.
Speaker 3: Traumas, and they will tell you anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, Patch Adams used to go to patients and
Speaker 2: say yes, used to go to their house and look
Speaker 2: through their sock draw and ask them, do you have.
Speaker 3: A personal diary?
Speaker 2: Can I take your diary home and read it so
Speaker 2: I can understand you better. And because of that intention,
Speaker 2: so you can actually build really intimate relationships with people
Speaker 2: and everybody, every human is fascinating. You know, there are
Speaker 2: no boring people. So when you actually have that intention,
Speaker 2: you actually learn what makes people tick.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of learning in that.
Speaker 2: So medicine was a great deal to go into it
Speaker 2: to learn about people.
Speaker 3: And I've learned so much from my patients. And because
Speaker 3: when you're seeing people, especially and sick people that.
Speaker 2: They're scared, they're in pain, they're anxious, So you actually
Speaker 2: see people at their worst. But the interaction you can
Speaker 2: have with them is super meaningful.
Speaker 3: So if you help them out of that situation, you
Speaker 3: know they'll.
Speaker 2: Remember you for a long long time afterwards, you know,
Speaker 2: perhaps for the rest of their life because you have
Speaker 2: helped them in this difficult situation.
Speaker 3: So to have that many for impact with people teaches
Speaker 3: you something.
Speaker 2: But it also it filters into your own capacity, of
Speaker 2: your skill set, but building with other things in life.
Speaker 3: So right, being a doctor's very privileged.
Speaker 2: Position, but you learn most of well, I learned most
Speaker 2: of my medical information not from what I learned at UNI,
Speaker 2: but from actually being with people.
Speaker 3: And I've done that in a lot of different environments.
Speaker 2: So you know, I've worked in emergency departments, I've worked
Speaker 2: at general practice, I've worked.
Speaker 3: At festivals, I've traveled the.
Speaker 2: World, I've worked in different alternative medical settings, and you know,
Speaker 2: I've learned in all of them.
Speaker 1: I'm sure the answer to my next question is, well,
Speaker 1: lots of things. But is there one thing that springs
Speaker 1: to mind when I say, what's something that you've changed
Speaker 1: your mind about, like maybe a significant thing that you
Speaker 1: think a and now you think fucking Z.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great I think you asked me that
Speaker 2: once before, and it's a really great question.
Speaker 1: Right, And I mean, I need to do better.
Speaker 3: Well, well, I've always been very contrarian.
Speaker 2: So I remember when Marjorine came out, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was saying, that's better than but I said, bullshit,
Speaker 2: you know, but it's the best, you know, so and
Speaker 2: and then there was, you know, the fight against that.
Speaker 2: The whole medical world was you know, low fat diyce
Speaker 2: and I was, that's bullshit. You know, I've seen through
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that the medical world was sort
Speaker 2: of touting and then they've changed the medical world has
Speaker 2: changed your mind.
Speaker 3: But I've always had that opposite view. I mean, one
Speaker 3: of the things that I'm just learning now.
Speaker 2: I mean, I used to think that the whole financial
Speaker 2: world was all just bullshit and irrelevant and not not.
Speaker 3: Irrelevant, but it was.
Speaker 2: It was a scam that you couldn't get into, and
Speaker 2: I was never really focused on money and that.
Speaker 3: Now I've actually been, you know, throughout the pandemic.
Speaker 2: In the last few years, I've been studying the history
Speaker 2: of money, and that's been really interesting. And now I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm proponent of bitcoin, and I'm super fortunate because I
Speaker 2: you know, I turned sixty this year.
Speaker 3: I got my super I dumped it all into bitcoin.
Speaker 3: That's been sensational for me.
Speaker 1: Hang on, when did you dump it in? What months?
Speaker 3: I was from March onwards? I sort of had too.
Speaker 1: Good good time to dump because you've already doubled your money,
Speaker 1: haven't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well almost, yeah so.
Speaker 2: But then, but learning about that there is a form
Speaker 2: of money that actually represents value, that that's not controlled
Speaker 2: by governments, and that whole world, the whole world of
Speaker 2: economics and finances, I really wasn't interested in it. Now
Speaker 2: become interested in in the power to change people for
Speaker 2: the bet for the for the better, and actually have
Speaker 2: a good effect in the world. So that's that's been
Speaker 2: a real learning for me at the moment, because in
Speaker 2: the past, I've just you know, I mean, I didn't
Speaker 2: really even though I did medicine, most and a lot
Speaker 2: of people do medicine of the status and the money,
Speaker 2: you know, I was, I was a university student for
Speaker 2: thirty years. You don't make money doing that. So money
Speaker 2: wasn't really high in my priorities. But now it's like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: money is a force of good in the world, or
Speaker 2: can be a force of good in the world when
Speaker 2: it's egalitarian and decentralized and not controlled by people with
Speaker 2: the puppet strings. So that's that's been a real change
Speaker 2: in my life. And I guess I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 2: super fortunate because she always thought that by the time
Speaker 2: I retired or but by to my access, my super
Speaker 2: the whole financial system is going to collapse. And now
Speaker 2: I see, Okay, we're gonna have this nice transition or
Speaker 2: nice condition, and I'm really optimistic about the future.
Speaker 3: So that that whole attitude towards money has changed.
Speaker 2: Not that you know, I'm really focused on money now,
Speaker 2: but it's like I just just have a lot of
Speaker 2: disdain for that whole world.
Speaker 3: And now I've got more.
Speaker 2: Respect for seeing that the positive things that can happen.
Speaker 2: But what else have I changed my I mean I
Speaker 2: used to be I mean, I've never been political ever,
Speaker 2: you know, left or right or anything. But I was
Speaker 2: really brought into the whole climate debate and carbon dioxide
Speaker 2: and all this sort of stuff and thinking we have
Speaker 2: to do sustainability. But I never thought about it from
Speaker 2: the climate or carbon doxide perspective. Always thought about it
Speaker 2: from a toxicity perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And but.
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I used to talk a lot
Speaker 2: about sustainability in the wellness world and looking at you know,
Speaker 2: water usage and carbon doxide emission. But now I'm changed
Speaker 2: my tune on that. But I'm really I mean that
Speaker 2: one of the items on my you know, my mission
Speaker 2: statement is to obtain your toxic load.
Speaker 3: How can we have it's toxicity, So that that's that's
Speaker 3: been a focus.
Speaker 2: But I have changed my my attitudes a little bit
Speaker 2: about I mean, I'm into you know, saving power and
Speaker 2: you know, not wasting not wasting things, but not because
Speaker 2: it's going to change the climate or you know, overpopulation
Speaker 2: all those sort of issues.
Speaker 3: You know, I think we need more people.
Speaker 2: I think people are an asset on the world, So
Speaker 2: that's I guess. No, I really have great hope for people,
Speaker 2: and I used to think I used to discount a
Speaker 2: lot of people just to have thinking ninety people and muppets, and.
Speaker 1: That doesn't bode well for you, and itiv Hey, we've
Speaker 1: got to wind We've got to wind up. But I
Speaker 1: want to ask you one I just want you to
Speaker 1: riff for a few minutes on this very commonly spoken
Speaker 1: about idea, which is seeing as we're talking about making
Speaker 1: sense of life, which is life purpose, everyone is like
Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, this spiritual thing that
Speaker 1: we've got to find our life purpose under some mystical
Speaker 1: rock somewhere, or or maybe we choose it and create
Speaker 1: it and then live it. What are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: that as an idea.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it is great to have a purpose.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the greatest things I've had
Speaker 2: in my life is a focus. You know, I've focused
Speaker 2: on fun and I've done that through the sort of
Speaker 2: the container of medicine. So that's been a great and
Speaker 2: because I've done this for forty years now, you know,
Speaker 2: I've sort of propelled myself far down that route where
Speaker 2: a lot of people they don't know what they want
Speaker 2: in life. And I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell
Speaker 2: who says follow your bliss, which is similar to my
Speaker 2: stating you find the fun. You know, if you find
Speaker 2: your fun in life, that will guide you to where
Speaker 2: you're going to get the most fulfillment and the most
Speaker 2: learning and the most enjoyment, and also you're going to
Speaker 2: be the most asset to other people. And in my life,
Speaker 2: I've always said, rather than fighting what I don't want,
Speaker 2: I'm actually going to work towards what I do want.
Speaker 2: What you don't want, you're focusing on something that's not fun,
Speaker 2: you know, it's something that's negative, and you're fighting all
Speaker 2: the time, Whereas if you're focusing on what you want,
Speaker 2: you're focusing on something that's fun, that's enjoyable, that you're
Speaker 2: aiming for and working towards that is actually really rewarding.
Speaker 2: So having a purpose in life is finding what you
Speaker 2: want and working towards that, and that and the guide
Speaker 2: for what you want to focus on. I used to
Speaker 2: have a lot of discussions with PhD students and you know,
Speaker 2: career decisions, and I love those discussions because you Again,
Speaker 2: a little discussion can put someone on a whole trajectory
Speaker 2: towards a whole different life purpose. But you know, telling
Speaker 2: people what do you love doing that When you're doing it,
Speaker 2: you lose track of the time.
Speaker 3: Once just something you read.
Speaker 2: When you're reading it, you know, you're just you're reading
Speaker 2: up all night because you're staying up or not reading
Speaker 2: that because that's you're really interested in that.
Speaker 3: They're the things you want to focus on.
Speaker 2: That's where you'll find your purpose, That's where you'll find
Speaker 2: your fun, and that's where you'll get the most learning,
Speaker 2: the most rewarding life by focusing on the things that
Speaker 2: you really enjoy that turn you on.
Speaker 3: So that's yeah, that's that's as far as a purpose.
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be a big goal.
Speaker 2: I'm going to change the world, you know, I must
Speaker 2: want to get to Mars or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: But it's it's finding and it.
Speaker 2: Can be just built in creating a family, bring stuff
Speaker 2: with the kids, creating a beautiful environment. But the things
Speaker 2: that you enjoy, focus on them, and the things that
Speaker 2: you don't want in the world, let them just you pass.
Speaker 1: You by last one just quickly. Sixty seconds is contentment sustainable?
Speaker 1: Is it or is it transient? Like can we just
Speaker 1: because it seems like us humans a lot of us
Speaker 1: wherever we are, it's not where we want to be.
Speaker 1: Whatever we have, it's not what, it's not enough, whatever
Speaker 1: we achieve, it's got to be a bit more like
Speaker 1: it seems like contentment eludes us.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's you're going to balance between the
Speaker 2: present and the future. So you know, you can be
Speaker 2: content in the moment, but you still want to work
Speaker 2: towards something in the future, and that that's that's a
Speaker 2: real it's a paradox because you want to you want
Speaker 2: to be in the moment one hundred percent right now,
Speaker 2: but you're still working towards a potential future.
Speaker 3: We have to we have to snap between the two.
Speaker 2: And that's the paradox of being human, where when you're
Speaker 2: when you're totally in the moment, when you're totally in
Speaker 2: flo you're.
Speaker 3: Not actually thinking that's contentment. But when you start to think.
Speaker 2: Of the past or the future, then you're not happy
Speaker 2: and you have to change things. And we need to
Speaker 2: do both, and I think we need a balance. So
Speaker 2: you want to balance being fully content in the moment,
Speaker 2: just happy with where you are and how you are,
Speaker 2: but also working towards a better future.
Speaker 1: That's why we get you. Hey, mate, we appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming to play on the
Speaker 1: new project again. Do you want to direct our audience
Speaker 1: to your website or any other source or tool that
Speaker 1: you want to point them out?
Speaker 2: My website's doctor Mark D M A r C dot
Speaker 2: co dot co. I'm a little bit active on LinkedIn
Speaker 2: and Facebook, but vary. Sometimes when I travel and do stuff,
Speaker 2: I put out a lot. Sometimes I don't put out
Speaker 2: much at all, but yeah.
Speaker 3: Doctor Mark dot com. I've got a few businesses.
Speaker 2: We make combuch of vinegars and tonics and water filters,
Speaker 2: and I've got children's books and I've got poetry, free
Speaker 2: poetry in my website.
Speaker 3: So yeah, people can check me out on my website.
Speaker 2: They can email me if they want to through my
Speaker 2: website if they want to connect.
Speaker 3: But yeah, thanks for inviting me on. It's always it's
Speaker 3: always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks mate. We appreciate you. Thanks TV. Thanks boys,