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Speaker 1: I get a Champs, it's jumbo, it's fatty Harps, it's

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Speaker 1: doctor Market's doctor Tiff over there at the Cook clinic.

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Speaker 1: Where what do you specialize in? Again, doctor Cook? What's

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Speaker 1: your specialty?

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Speaker 2: All of the things, punching in the face, noodling, whippets,

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Speaker 2: m yeah, angling, that's not.

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Speaker 1: The ultimate therapy package.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It is.

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Speaker 1: You don't really have much on the actual doc because

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Speaker 1: he's a doctor times three. He's got two PhDs and

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Speaker 1: he's a medical doctor, so he's a doctor thrice, which

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Speaker 1: is I'm trying to become a doctor once. And that's

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Speaker 1: the fucking academic Mount Everest for me. But how old

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Speaker 1: were you? Doc? Firstly, welcome Mark, How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm great? Yeah, thanks for inviting me again.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you were a medical doctor

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Speaker 1: and you had your first and second doctorate?

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Speaker 2: At?

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Speaker 1: What age? Was that?

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Speaker 2: Good question?

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Speaker 3: So I took time off my medical degree to do

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Speaker 3: a PhD.

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Speaker 2: Then I went back into my medical degree, so I

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Speaker 2: think it was about it might have been a twenty

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Speaker 2: eight when I did finish my first doctor I was

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Speaker 2: one of the youngest professors. I was a professor at

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Speaker 2: thirty seven, and then I had my second PhD and

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Speaker 2: my medical degree.

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Speaker 1: Wow wow, I love learning.

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Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time at Union. I just

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Speaker 2: love learning. I'm interested.

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Speaker 1: This is a dumb call. Maybe it's not a dumb question,

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Speaker 1: but I know you can't be objective about you. But

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Speaker 1: are you highly intelligent, highly curious, very disciplined, very hard worker,

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Speaker 1: or what is the overarching factor that allows you to

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Speaker 1: be a doctor? Times three?

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Speaker 2: I am curious And the thing I focused on my

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Speaker 2: whole life is fun, Like what is the most fun

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Speaker 2: thing to do? And I always thought it was more

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Speaker 2: fun to learn than to just work and make money.

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Speaker 2: So I just I love being at UNI in that

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Speaker 2: environment and learning and learning new things. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it was about curiosity, what's the most fun? And I

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Speaker 2: studied medicine because I thought that would teach me how

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Speaker 2: to have fun in life, because I learned how to

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Speaker 2: body works and how the mind works. So that's my

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Speaker 2: That's really curiosity and a focus on fun. It's been

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Speaker 2: my sort of secret weapon.

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Speaker 1: What's funny? You say that? No pun intended, funny cookie,

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Speaker 1: feel free to jump in and out at will. So

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Speaker 1: I just want to read what's on your on your

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Speaker 1: his could come back to haunt you. So on your homepage,

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're under Whoever your pr person is,

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Speaker 1: they need to do better. I assume it's you. There's

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Speaker 1: professor slash doctor Mark Cohen, wellness consultant, biohacker. Well, that

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Speaker 1: could be Brian down the road who's never been to UNI.

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Speaker 1: Talk about underselling yourself, but I guess you can't write

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Speaker 1: genius and you wrote Ibridge advanced science and ancient wisdom,

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Speaker 1: and offer simple, practical solutions that help you find fun,

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Speaker 1: make sense of life, master your mind and body, tame

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Speaker 1: your toxic load, live happy, healthy, and long. Now, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you wrote that a while ago, but those five

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Speaker 1: things find the fun, makes sense of life, master your

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Speaker 1: mind and body, tame your toxic load, and live happy, healthy,

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Speaker 1: and long. I want to lean into those in what

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Speaker 1: might become too small podcasts rather than big one one

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Speaker 1: big one. So are you ready to go? Because I

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Speaker 1: want to start with finding the fun?

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Speaker 3: Sure, that's I'm always yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that seems like a very interesting I don't know

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Speaker 1: that there would be too many people in the world

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Speaker 1: who have done medicine because they thought it might help

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Speaker 1: them have fun. I'm not saying it's not a good idea.

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Speaker 1: Where did that correlation come from in your head?

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Speaker 3: I I think I've always been very strategic.

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Speaker 2: And when I was in you know, I was I

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Speaker 2: went to Melbourne High School and I was good academically.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't a genius. Academically, I good. I just didn't

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Speaker 2: have to get through in the top, you know, a

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Speaker 2: few percent. But I really just thought about, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: could go to engineering or law or medicine. I thought, like,

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Speaker 2: what's going to teach me how the most fun and

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Speaker 2: fulfilling life? And I saw people going into banking and

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Speaker 2: hedge funds and money. I was never really interested in

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Speaker 2: money for the sake of money. I thought, I want

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Speaker 2: to learn how to engage in life and have the

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Speaker 2: most fun with my body and to have been fulfilled

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Speaker 2: and be healthy and happy. And I figured medicine would

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Speaker 2: do that. So it was a strategic decision for me

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Speaker 2: to get into medicine. And it wasn't about I never

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Speaker 2: really wanted to help sick people get healthy. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to get healthy people super healthy. And I saw myself

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Speaker 2: as just an ordinary person. But so how can I

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Speaker 2: stay healthy? How can I improve with age? I remember

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Speaker 2: studying Chinese medicine, and you read about these Chinese martial

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Speaker 2: artists and meditation teachers who get better as they get older. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you get these like seventy year old little martial art

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Speaker 2: masters who throw twenty five year old buff guys around.

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Speaker 3: And I want that.

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Speaker 2: I want to get better as I get older, and

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Speaker 2: that that curiosity sort of led me through this whole

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Speaker 2: part of Western medicine, Chinese medicine, engineering, and sort of

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Speaker 2: wellness practices.

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Speaker 1: What year did you start medicine, do you remember? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that was your first year out of school. Yep, yeah,

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Speaker 1: me too, wow, with the same age. And I guess

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Speaker 1: the medical model correct me if I'm wrong. But back

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Speaker 1: then was, as you alluded to, was very much, you know,

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Speaker 1: treating sick people rather than promoting healthy very much reactive,

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Speaker 1: not proactive.

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Speaker 2: That's true. Health promotion was just a very nascent field then.

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Speaker 2: You know, wellness wasn't even a word that you heard,

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Speaker 2: so that's right. An alternative medicine was pretty sort of

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Speaker 2: out there.

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Speaker 1: All right Back to our topic, finding the fun. So

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Speaker 1: what's the role of fun, laughter and joy in our

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Speaker 1: lives as you see it? Like, what are the and

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Speaker 1: what are the you know when we're in business, we

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Speaker 1: talk about features, advantages, and benefits, like here's an idea,

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Speaker 1: here's a concept, here's a business model, or here's a product. Features, advantages, benefits.

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Speaker 1: What what roles? I mean, other than the obvious that

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Speaker 1: fun is fun and we like laughter? What what role

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Speaker 1: can fun laughter enjoy play? And should we be strategic

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Speaker 1: about it?

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Speaker 2: I think so so fun. It is often considered frivolous.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's something you do in your leisure time.

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Speaker 2: It's not a serious pursuit. But I think I have

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Speaker 2: an opposite view. I think fun is as a really

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Speaker 2: basic biological, fundamental principle, and you have fun when you're

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Speaker 2: on the edge of your capacity and there's a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of you know, I tap into the research on

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Speaker 2: flow states. So we have a certain capacity and we

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Speaker 2: have certain challenges. And if your capacity is way beyond

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Speaker 2: your challenges, now it means you can do things easily,

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Speaker 2: but you sort of get bored.

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Speaker 3: You're not fully engaged, and you know you can do stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're competent, but you're not really using one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: of your capacity, and it's boring. If your challenges are

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Speaker 2: way above your capacity, it's stressful and you know you

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Speaker 2: can panic and you have anxiety because you know what

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Speaker 2: you need to do is beyond your skill set. But

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Speaker 2: when you hit a point where your capacity exactly matches

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Speaker 2: your challenges, that's that's fun, that's flow state. That's when

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Speaker 2: you're you're learning. And generally, what happens when your capacity

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Speaker 2: meets your challenges, your capacity naturally increases.

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Speaker 1: You get because when.

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Speaker 2: You're on that edge, you start learning stuff. And if

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Speaker 2: you have a look at little kids, you know, when

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Speaker 2: you're a kid, you're learning stuff and it's really enjoyable actually,

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Speaker 2: and I really believe you learn the most when you're

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Speaker 2: having fun with it. And that's pushing your boundaries as

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Speaker 2: a person. And it might be physical capacity, it might

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Speaker 2: be mental capacity, might be intellectual capacity. But when you

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Speaker 2: really find something that matches your capacity and it requires

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent of your focus and attention and physical skills,

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Speaker 2: that's when you're most engaged with life. That's when you're

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Speaker 2: the most fulfilled by life. And that's when your body

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Speaker 2: works as a single unit, and that's when you're healthiest.

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Speaker 2: So these things are correlated. And generally what happens is

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Speaker 2: as you get older, your capacity increases, so you need

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Speaker 2: bigger challenges, you end up doing more. And I find

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Speaker 2: now that I still don't know what I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do when I grow up.

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Speaker 1: Options yeah, you and me, but I'm figuring out. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like that. Sorry, there's a real benefit in

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Speaker 1: consciously choosing, intentionally choosing to do hard things that you

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Speaker 1: don't have to do, you know, like, oh, this is hard,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I'm not talking about reckless hard. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about strategic but still nonetheless difficult, you know, uncomfortable, unfamiliar,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. And it's in the doing of that

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Speaker 1: and then inserting ourselves in the middle of that hard

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Speaker 1: stuff that we become different.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like I put up something on social media this

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Speaker 1: morning and said something like, you know, we don't need

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Speaker 1: less pressure, we need more resilience. And it's then when

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Speaker 1: I'm more resilient. Because pressure is an individual experience, because

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Speaker 1: you and I can be in the same situation. I

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Speaker 1: feel pressured, you feel happy. So it's a subject of interpretation.

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Speaker 2: It's a self creation, and that's your that's based on

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Speaker 2: your capacity and your mental capacity of you know, knowing

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Speaker 2: what you're able to do and actually and so I

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Speaker 2: love learning that I can do stuff I didn't know

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Speaker 2: that I could do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really enjoyable.

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Speaker 2: And you're right. By putting yourself in a difficult situation,

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Speaker 2: whether it's going wake up in the morning, going for

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Speaker 2: a run and jumping in an ice bath, or putting

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Speaker 2: yourself in an uncomfortable position just to prove to yourself

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Speaker 2: that you can cope with that, and practicing being relaxed

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Speaker 2: in an uncomfortable situation builds that resilience, It builds that capacity,

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Speaker 2: so you actually have more fun doing other stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And the thing that was heavy for

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Speaker 1: you or hard for you, or difficult for you, or

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Speaker 1: painful for you becomes relatively doable and easy, even though

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Speaker 1: the stimulus is the same, or the weight is the same,

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Speaker 1: or the temperature of the water is the same, or

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Speaker 1: the number whatever. But you're different. So the subjective experience

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Speaker 1: of that thing that doesn't change changes.

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Speaker 2: That's it. And so has having spent longer in the

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Speaker 2: ice bark, or you have to do more than lift

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Speaker 2: heavier weight for whatever it is I was talking about.

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Speaker 1: I wrote this morning about something It's like when I first,

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Speaker 1: like years and years ago, thirty years ago, when I

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Speaker 1: first started talking to big audiences, and by big for

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Speaker 1: me then you know, like one hundred plus people in

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Speaker 1: real time. I remember when I did Early Days in

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Speaker 1: my twenties, still like a gig with five hundred people,

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Speaker 1: and I was so terrified there. I didn't sleep and

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Speaker 1: I felt immense pressure, right, which that was I created it.

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Speaker 1: It's just a room full of people, right. But now

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Speaker 1: in the same situation, I feel immense excitement and comfort

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Speaker 1: and familiarity because I've done it. But it's the same

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Speaker 1: guy doing essentially the same thing in front of the

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Speaker 1: same sized audience, but there is no pressure, when in fact,

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Speaker 1: the only thing that has really changed is the creator

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Speaker 1: of the pressure. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had similar experiences when I was younger. You

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Speaker 2: speaking to audiences and conferences and things. I guess you

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Speaker 2: don't want to embarrass yourself, and you know, you want

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Speaker 2: to be seen in a good light, so it's actually

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Speaker 2: you become very self conscious. Yes, But as I've gotten older,

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Speaker 2: I realize, you know, if I'm speaking to big audiences,

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Speaker 2: I'm really keen to share the content that I have

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Speaker 2: and to impart that, and it's a more of a dialogue,

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Speaker 2: so it's not about me trying to present myself, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you are trying to present yourself as an authority

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Speaker 2: and deliver information and be seen in a good light.

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Speaker 2: But it's more of actually engaging with the audience and

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Speaker 2: sharing content. And that's exciting to be able to share

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Speaker 2: that content. So it's more exciting than scary.

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Speaker 1: Is it true that we kind of naturally laugh less

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Speaker 1: as we get older? I feel like I read something

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Speaker 1: once it said kids laugh laugh. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is, eighty four times a day and adults laugh

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Speaker 1: on average twice or something like some huge discrepancy.

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Speaker 2: I think that I don't know the actual statistics. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it's true. Kids have a lot more playtime you free,

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Speaker 2: and kids learn. You've got The rate that kids learn

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Speaker 2: is way beyond what the rate that adults learn. And

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Speaker 2: I really believe that you learn the most when you're

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Speaker 2: having fun, when you're laughing, when you're enjoying yourself, and

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Speaker 2: that's when your capacity increases. And it's also that laughter,

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Speaker 2: Like even in the joke, you know, you get taken

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Speaker 2: down one route and then the punchline comes and tells

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Speaker 2: you something else and you're making these new brain connections. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that was connected to that, and that

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Speaker 2: creates a laughter response. With kids. When you're learning new stuff,

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Speaker 2: it's enjoyable because you're making new connections in your brain.

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Speaker 2: You're increasing your capacity to link things in life. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think as we get older, we get ossified and

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Speaker 2: the entropy sets in. We become close systems, and then

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Speaker 2: we have chronic disease, we have inflammation, we have more

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Speaker 2: mental rigidity, and we don't laugh as much, we don't

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Speaker 2: have as much fun, and that's the tragedy of aging.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, And also that that minds that

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Speaker 1: almost like that, oh, well you're this old, therefore you

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Speaker 1: need to do these things and not do those things.

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Speaker 1: It's like age appropriate behavior. Oh that's not age appropriate,

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Speaker 1: age appropriate fucking clothing age. I'm like, what even is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's social pressure, and that's caring about what other

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Speaker 2: people think. You're the same with public speaking. When you

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Speaker 2: care more about what other people think, you end up

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Speaker 2: compromising ye who are rather than just being who you are,

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Speaker 2: being that naturally and let other people think what they want.

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Speaker 2: And that's hard to do because where humans are social beings,

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Speaker 2: we need other people around us to look after us

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Speaker 2: and take care of us. And respect us and think

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Speaker 2: that we're good. So to go through life and not

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Speaker 2: caring at all what other people think is actually a

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Speaker 2: really difficult thing to do. But it doing stuff because

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Speaker 2: of what other people think is actually a recipe for unhappiness.

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Speaker 2: You can't control what other people think.

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Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing how much Tiff and I have

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Speaker 1: spoken about this, how much emotion we invest in caring

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Speaker 1: about what people that we don't know think or write

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Speaker 1: or comment. And it's like I could get one hundred

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Speaker 1: positive comments and one negative one and guess we'll get

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Speaker 1: Guess what will get the attention, you know, and guess

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Speaker 1: what will get my emotional investment?

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Speaker 3: Weary response.

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Speaker 2: You really don't want to know the risks of a

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Speaker 2: small negative thing is potentially life threatening, so you don't

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Speaker 2: want to ignore, you know, or risks. But in the

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Speaker 2: modern world, because we can amplify our reach. You know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how many people are gonna hear this podcast,

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Speaker 2: but you know, if you thought, Okay, I only want

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Speaker 2: to say stuff that every all the audience is going

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Speaker 2: to like, it's paralyzing, but you can't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a very valid point. I I've quoted

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Speaker 1: this one of my professors in my first degree said

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Speaker 1: to me, mister Harpery goes, if you want to keep

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Speaker 1: everyone happy all the time, then say nothing, do nothing,

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Speaker 1: be nothing, and stand for nothing.

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Speaker 2: And then you're i'mhappy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. So there's five parts to

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Speaker 1: this kind of I'll call it your mission statement. Find

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Speaker 1: the one. Number two. Number one is find the fun.

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Speaker 1: Number two is make sense of life. Right, so, what

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Speaker 1: sense have you made of life?

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Speaker 2: I've made lots of sense of life. And I had

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Speaker 2: this sort of early in my medical career. I started

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Speaker 2: condensing knowledge into little mnemonics and little word games and

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Speaker 2: little tricks to compress meaning into a few words. And

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Speaker 2: I've been doing that for nearly more than forty years now.

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Speaker 2: And it ends up when you condense lots of meaning

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Speaker 2: into a few words, it ends up as poetry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I've written all these I've shared poems I think

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Speaker 3: before with you.

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Speaker 2: But I've tried to integrate the Chinese medicine philosophy and

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Speaker 2: Chinese cosmology with Western scientific knowledge and bridge that and

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Speaker 2: come to an understanding of how you know. And it's

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Speaker 2: not a consequincence. There's five points to my sort of

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Speaker 2: mission statement. In both in Western and Eastern philosophy, they

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Speaker 2: lump things into five. You know, you've got five reason

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Speaker 2: So I actually lump a lot of things into five compartments, right,

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Speaker 2: And I've when I decide well I'm going to do

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Speaker 2: in life. I came up with this a few years

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Speaker 2: ago now and really guides what I do. And there

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Speaker 2: are five aspects. So if I'm going to do something,

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Speaker 2: it has to be fun. That's that's the that's like

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Speaker 2: the momentum, that's the driving force behind everything. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: has to bring like fortune, and that's not just money,

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Speaker 2: but it has to increase my resources. So fun and

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Speaker 2: fortune is measurable. They've got that the staccato, the fixed

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Speaker 2: in Chinese men to be wood element. It has to

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Speaker 2: bring fame and it has not that it has to

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Speaker 2: be famous, but you want to leave a legacy of goodwill.

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Speaker 2: So when you do stuff, you want people talking good

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Speaker 2: things behind your back.

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Speaker 1: M hm.

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Speaker 2: So you're leaving a positive lee behind you of people

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Speaker 2: saying good things. So fun, fortune, fame, fluency, and that's

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Speaker 2: your own capacity to do stuff. How fluent are you

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Speaker 2: the language, how fluent are you with your body, your ability,

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Speaker 2: your skill set, and the final thing is family and friendships.

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Speaker 2: So I've got so many opportunities and things to do

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Speaker 2: in my life, and I get all these do this

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Speaker 2: or that, and if it brings fun, fortune, fame, fluency,

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Speaker 2: and friendships, I do it. If it doesn't bring all

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Speaker 2: those five, generally I don't. And then this podcast is

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Speaker 2: really fun for me. This is fun sharing my worldview.

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Speaker 2: You know, hopefully people say good things about me. It's

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Speaker 2: not really going to be me and I don't get

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Speaker 2: paid for this, but you know, if it puts that

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Speaker 2: out in the world, it makes me fortunate. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate to be able to share my views,

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Speaker 2: and that that then comes back. I've become more fluent.

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Speaker 2: The more I practice talking, public speaking, talking and podcasts,

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Speaker 2: it builds my capacity.

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Speaker 3: And you know, now we're friends, so like, yeah, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what I love. I love the idea that so

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Speaker 1: you've done, you know, multiple degrees and you're a professor

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Speaker 1: and you know all this stuff, but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you're still like I would think most of your learning

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Speaker 1: has not been in an academic well a lot's been

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Speaker 1: in an academic environment, but maybe equal has been outside

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Speaker 1: an academic environment. And I'm I'm always trying to find

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Speaker 1: a way to share ideas and thoughts and occasionally scientific

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Speaker 1: principles or ideas in a way that resonates with people.

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Speaker 1: And I think you're really good at that. You're taking stuff,

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Speaker 1: feel good at taking stuff that could be boring or

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Speaker 1: bland or complicated and distilling it into something that's really digestible,

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Speaker 1: like emotionally, psychologically, behaviorally. Oh I get it, Like that's

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Speaker 1: not you know, I think finding no disrespect to academics,

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Speaker 1: but finding academics that have that capacity to say, well,

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Speaker 1: this is all the stuff I've learned, this is what

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Speaker 1: I've been taught and told and trained, but also some

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Speaker 1: of that's bullshit a bit, and then there's this other

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Speaker 1: stuff that I didn't learn that's actually more helpful and empowering.

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Speaker 1: And to bring that kind of like the mark distillation,

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Speaker 1: like that synthesis of everything you've been taught and told

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Speaker 1: and trained on top of the stuff that you've experienced

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Speaker 1: and seen and been in the middle of to almost

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Speaker 1: create your own kind of philosophical platform.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's where well I have I mean, I've done

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Speaker 2: you a lot of deep research into you know, ancient principles,

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Speaker 2: because you know, early humans and our ancestors.

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Speaker 3: You know, they knew stuff and they condensed that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I'm a student of history and of

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Speaker 2: medical history specifically, but also I've learned a lot just

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Speaker 2: from being I'm being a doctor. You're in a really

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Speaker 2: privileged position because you can talk to patients about anything.

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Speaker 2: And I mean one of my mentors in the in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties was the doctor Patch Adams.

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Speaker 3: So you know him. Robin Williams paid him in the

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Speaker 3: movie and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I became good friends with Patch and he always

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Speaker 2: used to say that to be the best doctor, you

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Speaker 2: want to create an intimate relationship with your patients. So

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Speaker 2: as a doctor, if you're really holding space, you can

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Speaker 2: ask people about you know, their wildest dreams, their sexual fantasies,

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Speaker 2: you know the color of their shit, you know their

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Speaker 2: childhood traumas, and they will tell you anything. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Pat Shadams used to go to patients and say he

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Speaker 2: used to go to their house and look through their

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Speaker 2: sock draw and ask them, do you have a personal diary?

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Speaker 2: Can I take your diary home and read it so

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Speaker 2: I can understand you better. And because of that intention,

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Speaker 2: so you can actually build really intimate relationships with people

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Speaker 2: and everybody, every human is fascinating. You know, there are

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Speaker 2: no boring people. So when you actually have that intention,

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Speaker 2: you actually learn what makes people tick. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of learning in that. So medicine was a great feal

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Speaker 2: to go into it to learn about people. And I've

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Speaker 2: learned so much from my patients. And because when you're

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Speaker 2: seeing people, especially and sick people that they're scared, they're

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Speaker 2: in pain, they're anxious, So you actually see people at

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Speaker 2: their worst. But the interaction you can have with them

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Speaker 2: is super meaningful. So if you help them out of

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Speaker 2: that situation, that they'll remember you for a long long

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Speaker 2: time afterwards, you know, perhaps for the rest of their

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Speaker 2: life because you have helped them in this difficult situation.

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Speaker 2: So to have that many for impact with people teaches

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Speaker 2: you something. But it also it filters into your own capacity,

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Speaker 2: of your skill set, but dealing.

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Speaker 3: With other things in life.

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Speaker 2: So being the doctor's very privileged position, but you learn

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Speaker 2: most of well, I learned most of my medical information

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Speaker 2: not from what I learned at UNI, but from actually

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Speaker 2: being with people. And I've done that in a lot

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Speaker 2: of different environments. So you know, I've worked in emergency departments.

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Speaker 2: I've worked at general practice, I've worked at festivals, I've

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Speaker 2: traveled the world. I've worked in different alternative medical settings,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I've learnt in all of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. The answer to my next question is, well,

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Speaker 1: lots of things. But is there one thing that springs

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Speaker 1: to mind when I say, what's something that you've changed

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Speaker 1: your mind about, like maybe a significant thing that you

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Speaker 1: think A and now you think fucking Z.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great I think you asked me that

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Speaker 2: once before, and that's a really great question, and I

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Speaker 2: need to do better.

435
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: Well, well, I've always been very contrarian.

436
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: So I remember when Marjorine came out and you know,

437
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: they was saying that's better than but I said, bullshit,

438
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: you know, but it's the best, you know, so and

439
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: and then there was, you know, the fights against that.

440
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: The whole medical world was, you know, low fat guys,

441
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: and I was, that's bullshit. You know, I've seen through

442
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that the medical world was sort

443
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: of touting and then they've changed, the medical world has

444
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: changed your mind. But I've always had that opposite view.

445
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things that I'm just learning now,

446
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: I mean I used to think that the whole financial

447
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: world was all just bullshit and irrelevant and not not irrelevant,

448
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 2: but it was. It was a scam that you couldn't

449
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: get into. And I was never really focused on money,

450
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: and that now I've actually been, you know, throughout the pandemic.

451
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 2: In the last few years, I've been studying the history

452
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: of money and that's been really interesting. And now I mean,

453
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: I'm proponent of bitcoin, and I'm super fortunate because I

454
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: you know, I turned sixty this year. I got my

455
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: super I dumped it all into bitcoin. That's been sensational

456
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: for me.

457
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: Hang on, when did you dump it? In? What months?

458
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: I was from March onwards. I sort of had too good.

459
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: Good time to dump because you've already doubled your money,

460
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: haven't you.

461
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, well almost, yeah so.

462
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: But then but learning about that there is a form

463
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: of money that actually represents value, that that's not controlled

464
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: by governments, and that whole world, the whole world of

465
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: economics and finances, I really wasn't interested in it, and

466
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: now become interested in in the power to change people

467
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: for the bet for the for the better and actually

468
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: have a good effect in the world. So that's that's

469
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: been a real learning for me at the moment, because

470
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: in the past, I've just you know, I mean, I

471
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: didn't really even though I did medicine, mostly a lot

472
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: of people do medicine. Of the status and the money,

473
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: you know, I was, I was a university student for

474
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: thirty years. You don't make money doing that. Money wasn't

475
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: really high in my priorities. But now it's like, oh wow,

476
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: money is a force of good in the world, or

477
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 2: can be a force of good in the world when

478
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: it's egalitarian and decentralized and not controlled by people with

479
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: the puppet strings. So that's that's been a real change

480
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: in my life. And I guess I'm you know, I'm

481
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: super fortunate because as she always thought that by the

482
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: time I retired, or but by to my actress, my

483
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: super the whole financial system is going to collapse. And

484
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 2: now I see, okay, we're gonna have this nice transition

485
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: or nice condition, and I'm really optimistic about the future.

486
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: So that that whole attitude towards money has changed. Not

487
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: that you know, I'm I'm really focused on money now,

488
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: but it's like I just just have a lot of

489
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: disdain for that whole world. And now I've got more

490
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 2: respect to seeing the positive things that can happen. But

491
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: what else have I changed my I mean I used

492
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: to be a I mean I've never been political, you know,

493
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: left or right or anything. But I was really brought

494
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 2: into the whole climate debate and carbon dix side and

495
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff and thinking we have to

496
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: do sustainability. But I never thought about it from the

497
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: climate or carbon doxide perspective. Always thought about from a

498
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: toxicity perspective. Yeah, And but I was, you know, I

499
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: used to talk a lot about pustainability in the wellness

500
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: world and looking at you.

501
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: Know, water usage and carbon dox side admission.

502
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: But now I'm changed my tune on that. But I'm

503
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 2: really I mean that one of the items on my

504
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 2: you know, my mission statement is to debtain your toxic load.

505
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: How can we have it's toxicity, So that that's that's

506
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: been a focus. But I have changed my my attitudes

507
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: a little bit about I mean, I'm into you know,

508
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: saving power and you know, not wasting not wasting things,

509
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: but not because it's going to change the climate or

510
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: you know, overpopulation and all those sort of issues. You know,

511
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: I think we need more people. I think people are

512
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: an asset on the world.

513
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: So that's I guess.

514
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: No.

515
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: I really have great hope for people, and I used

516
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: to think I used to discount a lot of people.

517
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: Just think ninety people and muppets, and.

518
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: That doesn't bode well for you, and itiv. Hey, we've

519
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: got to wind We've got to wind up. But I

520
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: want to ask you one I just want you to

521
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: riff for a few minutes on this very commonly spoken

522
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: about idea, which is, seeing as we're talking about making

523
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: sense of life, which is life purpose, everyone is like

524
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, this spiritual thing that

525
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: we've got to find our life purpose under some mystical

526
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: rock somewhere, or or maybe we choose it and create

527
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: it and then live it. What are your thoughts on

528
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: that as an idea.

529
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: I think it is great to have a purpose. And

530
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: I think one of the greatest things I've had in

531
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: my life is a focus. You know, I've focused on

532
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: fun and I've done that through the sort of the

533
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: container of medicine. So that's been a great act. And

534
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: because I've done this for forty years now, you know,

535
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: I've sort of propelled myself far down that route where

536
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people they don't know what they want

537
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: in life. And I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell

538
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: who says, follow your bliss and which is similar to

539
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: my saving, you find the fun. You know, if you

540
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: find your fun in life, that will guide you to

541
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: where you're going to get the most fulfillment and the

542
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: most learning and the most enjoyment. And also you're going

543
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: to be the most asset to other people. And in

544
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: my life, I've always said, rather than fighting what I

545
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: don't want, I'm actually going to work towards what I

546
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: do want. What you don't want, you're focusing on something

547
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: that's not fun, you know, it's something that's negative, and

548
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: you're fighting all the time. Whereas if you're focusing on

549
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: what you want, you're focusing on something that's fun, that's enjoyable,

550
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: that you're aiming for and working towards that is actually

551
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: really rewarding. So having a purpose in life is finding

552
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: what you want and working towards that, and that and

553
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: the guide for what you want to focus on. I

554
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: used to have a lot of discussions with PhD students

555
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: and you know, career decisions, and I love those discussions

556
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: because you, again, a little discussion can put someone on

557
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: a whole trajectory towards a whole different life purpose. But

558
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: you know, telling people what do you love doing that

559
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: When you're doing it, you lose track of the time.

560
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: And once something you read, when you're reading it, you know,

561
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: you're just you're reading up all night because you're staying

562
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: up or not reading that because that's you're really interested

563
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: in that. They're the things you want to focus on.

564
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: That's where you'll find your purpose, that's where you'll find

565
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: your fun, and that's where you'll get the most learning,

566
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: the most rewarding life by focusing on the things that

567
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: you really enjoy that turn you on.

568
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: So that's.

569
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's as far as a purpose. It doesn't

570
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: have to be a big goal. I'm going to change

571
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: the world on you know, Elon must want to get

572
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 2: to Mars or whatever it is. But it's it's finding

573
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: and it can be just built in creating a family,

574
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: bring stuff with the kids, creating a beautiful environment. But

575
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: the things that you enjoy, focus on them, and the

576
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: things that you don't want in the world, let them

577
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: just you.

578
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: Pass you by last one just quickly sixty seconds. Is

579
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: contentment sustainable?

580
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: Is it?

581
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: Or is it transient, Like can we just because it

582
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: seems like us humans a lot of us wherever we are,

583
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: it's not where we want to be. Whatever we have,

584
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: it's not what, it's not enough, whatever we achieve. It's

585
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: got to be a bit more like it seems like

586
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: contentment eludes us.

587
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's you're going to balance between the

588
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 2: present and the future. So you know, you can be

589
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: content in the moment, but you still want to work

590
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: towards something in the future, and that that's that's a

591
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: real it's a paradox because you want to you want

592
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: to be in the moment one hundred percent right now,

593
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: but you're still working towards the potential future. And we

594
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: have to we have to snap between the two. And

595
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,239
Speaker 2: that's the paradox of being human, where when you're when

596
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: you're totally in the moment, when you're totally in flo

597
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: you're not actually thinking that's contentment. But when you start

598
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: to think of the past or the future, then you're

599
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 2: not happy and you have to change things and we

600
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: and we need to do both, and I think we

601
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: need a balance. So you want to balance being fully

602
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: content in the moment, just happy with where you are

603
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: and how you are, but also working towards a better future.

604
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: That's why we get you. Hey, mate, we appreciate you.

605
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming to play on the

606
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: U project again. Do you want to direct our audience

607
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: to your website or any other source or tool that

608
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: you want to point them out?

609
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: My website's doctor Mark D M A r C dot

610
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: co dot co. I'm a little bit active on LinkedIn

611
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: and Facebook, but very Sometimes when I travel and do stuff,

612
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: I put out a lot. Sometimes I don't put out

613
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: much at all, but yeah, doctor Mark dot com. I've

614
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: got a few businesses. We make combuch vinegars and tonics

615
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: and water filters, and I've got children's books and I've

616
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: got poetry free poetry on my website. So yeah, people

617
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: can check me out on my website. They can email

618
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: me if they want to through my website if they

619
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: want to connect.

620
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, thanks for inviting me on. It's always it's

621
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: always a pleasure.

622
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: Thanks mate. We appreciate you. Thanks to Thanks boys,