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Speaker 1: I get a Champs, it's jumbo, it's fatty Harps, it's

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Speaker 1: doctor Market's doctor Tiff over there at the Cook clinic.

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Speaker 1: Where what do you specialize in? Again, doctor Cook? What's

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Speaker 1: your specialty?

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Speaker 2: All of the things, punching in the face, noodling, whippets,

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Speaker 2: m yeah, arangling.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like the ultimate therapy package. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 1: You don't really have much on the actual doc because

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Speaker 1: he's a doctor times three. He's got two PhDs and

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Speaker 1: he's a medical doctor, so he's a doctor thrice, which

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Speaker 1: is I'm trying to become a doctor once. And that's

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Speaker 1: the fucking academic Mount Everest for me. But how old

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Speaker 1: were you?

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Speaker 3: Doc?

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Speaker 1: Firstly, welcome Mark, How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm great? Yeah, thanks for inviting me again.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you were a medical doctor

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Speaker 1: and you had your first and second doctorate?

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Speaker 3: At?

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Speaker 1: What age?

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Speaker 3: Was that? Good question? So I took time off my

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Speaker 3: medical degree to do a PhD.

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Speaker 2: Then I went back into my medical degree, so I

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Speaker 2: think it was about it might have been like twenty

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Speaker 2: eight when I did finish my first doctor and I

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Speaker 2: was one of the youngest professors. I was a professor

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Speaker 2: at thirty seven and then I had my second PhD

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Speaker 2: and my medical degree.

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Speaker 1: Wow wow, I love learning.

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Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time at UNI. I just

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Speaker 3: love learning. I'm interested.

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Speaker 1: This is a dumb call. Well maybe it's not a

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Speaker 1: dumb question, but I know you can't be objective about you.

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Speaker 1: But are you highly intelligent, highly curious, very disciplined, very

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Speaker 1: hard worker, or what is the overarching factor that allows

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Speaker 1: you to be a doctor? Times three?

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Speaker 2: I am curious And the thing I focused on my

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Speaker 2: whole life is fun, Like what is the most fun

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Speaker 2: thing to do? And I always thought it was more

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Speaker 2: fun to learn than to just work and make money.

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Speaker 2: So I just I love being at UNI in that

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Speaker 2: environment and learning and learning new things. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it was about curiousity, what's the most fun? And I

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Speaker 2: studied medicine cause I thought that would teach me how

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Speaker 2: to have fun in life because I learned how to

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Speaker 2: body works and how the mind works.

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Speaker 3: So that's my that's.

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Speaker 2: Really curiosity and a focus on fun. It's been my

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Speaker 2: sort of secret weapon.

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Speaker 1: What's funny you say that? No pun intended, funny cookie,

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Speaker 1: feel free to jump in and out at will. So

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Speaker 1: I just want to read what's on your on your

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Speaker 1: his could come back to haunt you. So on your homepage,

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're under whoever your PR person is,

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Speaker 1: they need to do better. I assume it's you. There's

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Speaker 1: professor slash doctor Mark Cohen, wellness consultant, biohacker. Well, that

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Speaker 1: could be Brian down the road who's never been to UNI.

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Speaker 1: Talk about underselling yourself, but I guess you can't write genius,

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Speaker 1: and you wrote I bridge advanced science and ancient wisdom

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Speaker 1: and offer simple, practical solutions that help you find fun,

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Speaker 1: makes sense of life, master your mind and body, tame

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Speaker 1: your toxic load, Live happy, healthy, and long. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you wrote that a while ago, but those five things.

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Speaker 1: Find the fun, makes sense of life, master your mind

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Speaker 1: and body, tame your toxic load, and live happy, healthy,

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Speaker 1: and long. I want to lean into those in what

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Speaker 1: might become too small podcasts rather than big one one

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Speaker 1: big one. So are you ready to go? Because I

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Speaker 1: want to start with finding the fun.

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Speaker 3: Sure, that's always fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So that seems like a very interesting I don't

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Speaker 1: know that there would be too many people in the

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Speaker 1: world who have done medicine because they thought it might

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Speaker 1: help them have fun. I'm not saying it's not a

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Speaker 1: good idea. Where did that correlation come from in your head?

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Speaker 2: I I think I've always been very strategic, and when

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Speaker 2: I was in you know, I was I went to

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Speaker 2: Melbourne High School and I was good academically. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: a genius Academically, it's good. I just didn't have to

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Speaker 2: get through in the top a few percent. But I

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Speaker 2: really just thought about, Okay, I could go to engineering

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Speaker 2: or law or medicine. I thought, like, what's going to

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Speaker 2: teach me how the most fun and fulfilling life? And

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Speaker 2: I saw people going into banking and hedge funds and money.

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Speaker 2: I was never really interested in money for the sake

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Speaker 2: of money. I thought, I want to learn how to

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Speaker 2: engage in life and have the most fun with my

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Speaker 2: body and to have been fulfilled and be healthy and happy.

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Speaker 2: And I figured medicine would do that. So it was

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Speaker 2: a strategic decision for me to get into medicine. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't about I never really wanted to help sick

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Speaker 2: people get healthy. I wanted to get healthy people super healthy.

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Speaker 2: And I saw myself as just an ordinary person. But

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Speaker 2: so how can I stay healthy? How can I improve

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Speaker 2: with age? I remember studying Chinese medicine, and you read

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Speaker 2: about these Chinese martial artists and meditation teachers who get

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Speaker 2: better as they get older. Yeah, you get these like

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Speaker 2: seventy year old little martial art masters who throw twenty

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Speaker 2: five year old buff guys around. And I want that,

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Speaker 2: I want to get better as I get older, and

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Speaker 2: that that curiosity sort of led me through this whole

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Speaker 2: part of Western medicine, Chinese medicine, engineering, and sort of

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Speaker 2: wellness practices.

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Speaker 1: What year did you start medicine, do you remember? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that was your first year out of school. Yep, yeah,

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Speaker 1: me too, wow, with the same age. And I guess

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Speaker 1: the medical model correct me if I'm wrong. But back

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Speaker 1: then was, as you alluded to, was very much, you know,

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Speaker 1: treating sick people rather than promoting healthy very much reactive,

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Speaker 1: not proactive.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Health promotion was just a very nascent field.

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Speaker 1: Then.

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Speaker 2: You know, wellness wasn't even a word that you heard,

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Speaker 2: so that's right. An alternative medicine was pretty sort of

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Speaker 2: out there.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: Back to our topic, finding the fun. So what's the

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Speaker 1: role of fun, laughter and joy in our lives as

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Speaker 1: you see it? Like, what are the and what are

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Speaker 1: the you know, when we're in business, we talk about features, advantages,

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Speaker 1: and benefits, like here's an idea, here's a concept, here's

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Speaker 1: a business model, or here's a product, features, advantages, benefits.

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Speaker 1: What roles I mean, other than the obvious that fun

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Speaker 1: is fun and we like laughter? What role can fun

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Speaker 1: laughter enjoy play? And should we be strategic about it?

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 2: So fun is often considered frivolous. You know, it's something

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Speaker 2: you do in your leisure time. It's not a serious pursuit.

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Speaker 2: But I think I have an opposite view. I think

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Speaker 2: fun is a is a really basic biological, fundamental principle,

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Speaker 2: and you have fun when you're on the edge of

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Speaker 2: your capacity and there's a whole lot of you know,

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Speaker 2: I tap into the research on flow states. So we

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Speaker 2: have a certain capacity and we have certain challenges. And

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Speaker 2: if your capacity is way beyond your challenges, now it

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Speaker 2: means you can do things easily, but you sort of

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Speaker 2: get bored.

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Speaker 3: You're not fully engaged, and you know you can do stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're competent, but you're not really using one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: of your capacity. And to be boring, if your challenges

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Speaker 2: are way above your capacity, it's stressful and you know

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Speaker 2: you can panic and you have anxiety because you know

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Speaker 2: what you need to do is beyond your skill set.

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Speaker 2: But when you hit a point where your capacity exactly

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Speaker 2: matches your challenges, that's that's fun, that's flow state. That's

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Speaker 2: when you're you're learning. And generally, what happens when your

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Speaker 2: capacity meets your challenges, your capacity naturally increases. You get

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Speaker 2: because when you're on that edge, you start learning stuff.

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Speaker 2: And if you have a look at little kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're a kid, you're learning stuff and it's really

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Speaker 2: enjoyable actually, and I really believe you learn the most

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Speaker 2: when you're having fun with it.

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Speaker 3: And that's pushing your boundary as a person.

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Speaker 2: And it might be physical capacity, it might be mental capacity,

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Speaker 2: might be intellectual capacity. But when you really find something

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Speaker 2: that matches your capacity and it requires one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: of your focus and attention and physical skills, that's when

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Speaker 2: you're most engaged with life. That's when you're the most

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Speaker 2: fulfilled by life. And that's when your body works as

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Speaker 2: a single unit, and that's when you're healthiest.

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Speaker 3: So these things are correlated.

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Speaker 2: And generally what happens is as you get older, your

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Speaker 2: capacity increases, so you need bigger challenges, you end up

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Speaker 2: doing more. And I find now that I still don't

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Speaker 2: know what I'm going to do when I grow up.

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Speaker 1: Options, Yeah, you and me both, I'm figuring it out,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like that, Sorry, there's a real benefit

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Speaker 1: in consciously choosing, intentionally choosing to do hard things that

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Speaker 1: you don't have to do, you know, like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is hard, but you know, I'm not talking about reckless hard.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about strategic, but still nonetheless difficult, you know, uncomfortable, unfamiliar,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. And it's in the doing of that

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Speaker 1: and then inserting ourselves in the middle of that hard

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Speaker 1: stuff that we become different.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like I put up something on social media this

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Speaker 1: morning and said something like, you know, we don't need

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Speaker 1: less pressure, we need more resilience. And it's then when

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Speaker 1: I'm more resilient because pressure is an individual experience, because

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Speaker 1: you and I can be in the same situation. I

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Speaker 1: feel pressured, you feel happy. So it's a subjective interpretation.

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Speaker 1: It's a self creation.

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Speaker 2: And that's your that's based on your capacity and your

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Speaker 2: mental capacity of you know, knowing what you're able to

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Speaker 2: do and actually and so I love learning that I

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Speaker 2: can do stuff I didn't know that I could do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really enjoyable. And you're right.

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Speaker 2: By putting yourself in a difficult situation, whether it's going

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Speaker 2: wake up in the morning, going for a run and

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Speaker 2: jumping in an ice bath, or putting yourself in an

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable position just to prove to yourself that you can

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Speaker 2: cope with that, and practicing being relaxed in an uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: situation builds that resilience, It builds that capacity, so you

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Speaker 2: actually have more fun doing other stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And the thing that was heavy for

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Speaker 1: you or hard for you, or difficult for you or

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Speaker 1: painful for you becomes relatively doable and easy, even though

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Speaker 1: the stimulus is the same, or the weight is the same,

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Speaker 1: or the temperature of the water is the same or

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Speaker 1: the number whatever. But you're different. So the subjective experience

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Speaker 1: of that thing that doesn't change changes.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 2: And so has having to spend longer in the ice

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Speaker 2: bark or you have to do more than lift heavier

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Speaker 2: weight for whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I was talking about. I wrote this morning about something

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Speaker 1: It's like when I first like years and years ago,

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago, when I first started talking to big audiences,

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Speaker 1: and by big for me then you know, like one

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Speaker 1: hundred plus people in real time. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: did Early Days in my twenties, still like a gig

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Speaker 1: with five hundred people, and I was so terrified there.

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Speaker 1: I didn't sleep and I felt immense pressure, right, which

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Speaker 1: that was I created it. It's just a room full

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Speaker 1: of people, right. But now in the same situation, I

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Speaker 1: feel immense excitement and comfort and familiarity because I've done it.

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Speaker 1: But it's the same guy doing essentially the same thing

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Speaker 1: in front of the same sized audience. But there is

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Speaker 1: no pressure, when in fact, the only thing that has

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Speaker 1: really changed is the creator of the pressure. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had similar experiences when I was younger, you know,

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Speaker 2: speaking to audiences and conferences and things. I guess you

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Speaker 2: don't want to embarrass yourself, and you know, you want

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Speaker 2: to be seen in a good light, so it's actually

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Speaker 2: you become.

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Speaker 3: Very self conscious.

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Speaker 2: Yes, as I've gotten older, I realize, you know, if

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking to big audiences, I'm really keen to share

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Speaker 2: the content that I have and to impart that and

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Speaker 2: it's a more of a dialogue, so it's not about

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Speaker 2: me trying to present myself, you know, and you are

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Speaker 2: trying to present yourself as an authority and deliver information

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Speaker 2: and be seen in a good light. But it's more

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Speaker 2: of actually engaging with the audience and sharing content. And

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Speaker 2: that's exciting to be able to share that content. So

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Speaker 2: it's more exciting than scary.

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Speaker 1: Is it true that we kind of naturally laugh less

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Speaker 1: as we get older? I feel like I read something

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Speaker 1: once it said kids laugh laugh. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is, eighty four times a day and adults laugh

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Speaker 1: on average twice or something like some huge discrepancy.

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Speaker 2: I think that I don't know the actual statistics. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that's true.

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Speaker 3: Kids have a.

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Speaker 2: Lot more playtime you free, and kids learnt. The rate

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Speaker 2: the kids learn is way beyond what the rate that

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Speaker 2: adults learn. And I really believe that you learn the

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Speaker 2: most when you're having fun, when you're laughing, when you're

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Speaker 2: enjoying yourself, and that's when your capacity increases.

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Speaker 3: And it's also that laughter, Like even in the joke,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: You get taken down one route and then the punchline

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Speaker 2: comes and tells you something else and you're making these

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Speaker 2: new brain connections. Oh, I didn't know that was connected

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Speaker 2: to that, and that creates a laughter response With kids.

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Speaker 2: When you're learning new stuff, it's enjoyable because you're making

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Speaker 2: new connections in your brain.

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Speaker 3: You're increasing your capacity to link things in life.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I think as we get older, we get

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Speaker 2: ossified and the entropy sets in. We become closed systems,

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Speaker 2: and then we have chronic disease, we have inflammation, we

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Speaker 2: have more mental rigidity, and we don't laugh as much,

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Speaker 2: we don't have as much fun, and that's the tragity

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Speaker 2: of aging.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, And also that that minds that

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Speaker 1: almost like that, oh, well you're this old, therefore you

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Speaker 1: need to do these things and not do those things.

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Speaker 1: It's like age appropriate behavior. Oh that's not age appropriate,

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Speaker 1: age appropriate fucking clothing age. I'm like, what even is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's social pressure, and that's caring about what other

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Speaker 2: people think. You're the same with public speaking. When you

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Speaker 2: care more about what other people think, you end up

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Speaker 2: compromising yea, who you are rather than just being who

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Speaker 2: you are, being that naturally and let other people think

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Speaker 2: what they want. And that's hard to do because where

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Speaker 2: humans are social beings, we need other people around us

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Speaker 2: to look after us and take care of us and

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Speaker 2: respect us and think that we're good. So to go

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Speaker 2: through life and not caring at all what other people

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Speaker 2: think is actually a really difficult thing to do. But

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Speaker 2: it doing stuff because of what other people think is

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Speaker 2: actually a recipe for unhappiness. You can't control what other

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Speaker 2: people think.

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Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing how much Tiff and I have

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Speaker 1: spoken about this, how much emotion we invest in caring

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Speaker 1: about what people that we don't know think or write

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Speaker 1: or comment. And it's like I could get one hundred

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Speaker 1: positive comments and one negative one and guess we'll get

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Speaker 1: Guess what will get the attention, you know, and guess

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Speaker 1: what will get my emotional investment?

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Speaker 3: Well, that'sary response. You really don't want to know.

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Speaker 2: The risks of a small negative thing is potentially life threatening,

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Speaker 2: so you don't want to ignore, you know, or risks.

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Speaker 2: But in the modern world, because we can amplify our reach.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know how many people are going

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Speaker 2: to hear this podcast, but you know, if you thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I only want to say stuff that every all the

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Speaker 2: audience is going to like, it's paralyzing, but you can't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a very valid point. I I've quoted this.

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Speaker 1: One of my professors in my first degree said to me,

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Speaker 1: mister Harpery goes, if you want to keep everyone happy

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Speaker 1: all the time, then say nothing, do nothing, be nothing,

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Speaker 1: and stand for nothing.

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Speaker 3: And then I'm happy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. So there's five parts to

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Speaker 1: this kind of I'll call it your mission statement, find

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Speaker 1: the one. Number two. Number one is find the fun.

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Speaker 1: Number two is make sense of life. Right, so, what

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Speaker 1: sense have you made of life?

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Speaker 2: I've made lots of sense of life. And I had

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Speaker 2: this sort of early in my medical career. I started

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Speaker 2: condensing knowledge into little mnemonics and little word games and

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Speaker 2: little tricks to compress meaning into a few words. And

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Speaker 2: I've been doing that for nearly more than forty years now.

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Speaker 2: And it ends up when you condense lots of meaning

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Speaker 2: into a few words, it ends up as poetry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I've written all these, I've shared poems I think

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Speaker 3: before with you.

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Speaker 2: But I've tried to integrate the Chinese medicine philosophy and

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Speaker 2: Chinese cosmology with Western scientific knowledge and.

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Speaker 3: Bridge that and come to an understanding of how you know.

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Speaker 3: And it's not a co incedance.

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Speaker 2: There's five points to my sort of mission statement because

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Speaker 2: in both in Western and Eastern philosophy they lump things

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Speaker 2: into five You know, you've got five reason So I

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Speaker 2: actually lump a lot of things into five compartments, right, And.

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Speaker 3: I've when I decide well I'm going to do in life.

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Speaker 2: I came up with this a few years ago now

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Speaker 2: and really guides what I do. And there are five aspects.

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Speaker 2: So if I'm going to do something, it has to

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Speaker 2: be fun. That's that's the that's like the momentum. That's

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Speaker 2: the driving force behind everything. It has to bring like fortune,

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Speaker 2: and that's not just money, but it has to increase

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Speaker 2: my resources. So fun and fortune is measurable. They've got

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Speaker 2: that the staccato, the fixed in Chinese men to be

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Speaker 2: wood element. It has to bring fame and it has

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Speaker 2: to not that it has to be famous, but you

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Speaker 2: want to leave a legacy of goodwill. So when you

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Speaker 2: do stuff, you want people talking good things behind your back.

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Speaker 1: M hm.

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Speaker 2: So you're leaving a positive see behind you people saying

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Speaker 2: good things. So fun, fortune, fame, fluency, and that that's

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Speaker 2: your own capacity to do stuff. How fluent are you

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Speaker 2: the language?

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Speaker 3: Fluent? Are you with your body?

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Speaker 2: Your ability, your skill set? And the final thing is

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Speaker 2: family and friendships. So now I've got so many opportunities

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Speaker 2: and things to do in my life, and I get

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Speaker 2: all lead to do this or that, and if it

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Speaker 2: brings fun, fortune, fame, fluency, and friendships, I do it.

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Speaker 2: If it doesn't bring all those five, generally I don't.

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Speaker 2: And then this podcast is really fun for me. This

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Speaker 2: is fun sharing my my worldview. You know, hopefully people

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Speaker 2: say good things about me. It's not really going to

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Speaker 2: be me and I don't get paid for this, but

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Speaker 2: you know, if it puts that out in the world,

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Speaker 2: it makes me fortunate. You know, I'm very fortunate to

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Speaker 2: be able to share my views, and that that then

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Speaker 2: comes back. I've become more fluent. The more I practice talking,

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Speaker 2: public speaking, talking in podcasts, it builds my capacity.

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Speaker 3: And you know, now we're friends. So like, ye, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what I love.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea that so you've done, you know,

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Speaker 1: multiple degrees and you're a professor and you know all

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Speaker 1: this stuff, but at the same time you're still like

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Speaker 1: I would think most of your learning has not been

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Speaker 1: in an academic well a lot's been in an academic environment,

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Speaker 1: but maybe equal has been outside an academic environment, and

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm always trying to find a way to share

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Speaker 1: ideas and thoughts and occasionally scientific principles or ideas in

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Speaker 1: a way that resonates with people. And I think you're

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Speaker 1: really good at that. You're taking stuff, feel good at

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Speaker 1: taking stuff that could be boring or bland or complicated

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Speaker 1: and distilling it into something that's really digestible, like emotionally, psychologically, behaviorally. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I get it. Like that's not you know, I think

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Speaker 1: finding no disrespect to academics, but finding academics that have

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Speaker 1: that capacity to say, well, this is all the stuff

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Speaker 1: I've learned, this is what I've been taught and told

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Speaker 1: and trained, but also some of that's bullshit a bit,

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Speaker 1: and then there's this other stuff that I didn't learn

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Speaker 1: that's actually more helpful and empowering. And to bring that

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Speaker 1: kind of like the mark distillation, like that synthesis of

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Speaker 1: everything you've been taught and told and trained on top

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that you've experienced and seen and been

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Speaker 1: in the middle of to almost create your own kind

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Speaker 1: of philosophical platform.

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Speaker 2: Well that's where well I have I mean, I've done

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Speaker 2: you a lot of deep research into you know, ancient

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Speaker 2: principles because you know, early humans and our ancestors, you know,

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Speaker 2: they knew stuff and they condensed that.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm a student of history and of.

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Speaker 2: Medical history specifically, but also I've learned a lot just

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Speaker 2: from being I'm being a doctor. You're in a really

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Speaker 2: privileged position because you can talk to patients about anything.

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Speaker 2: And I mean one of my mentors in the in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties was a doctor, Patch Adams, So.

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Speaker 3: You know him. Robin Williams paid him in the movie

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Speaker 3: and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I became good friends with Patch and he always

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Speaker 2: used to say that to be the best doctor, you

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Speaker 2: want to create an intimate relationship with your patients.

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Speaker 3: So as a doctor, if.

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Speaker 2: You're really holding space, you can ask people about you know,

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Speaker 2: their wildest dreams, their sexual fantasies, you know the color

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Speaker 2: of their shit, you know their childhood.

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Speaker 3: Traumas, and they will tell you anything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Patch Adams used to go to patients and

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Speaker 2: say yes, used to go to their house and look

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Speaker 2: through their sock draw and ask them, do you have.

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Speaker 3: A personal diary?

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Speaker 2: Can I take your diary home and read it so

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Speaker 2: I can understand you better. And because of that intention,

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Speaker 2: so you can actually build really intimate relationships with people

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Speaker 2: and everybody, every human is fascinating. You know, there are

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Speaker 2: no boring people. So when you actually have that intention,

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Speaker 2: you actually learn what makes people tick.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of learning in that.

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Speaker 2: So medicine was a great deal to go into it

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Speaker 2: to learn about people.

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Speaker 3: And I've learned so much from my patients. And because

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Speaker 3: when you're seeing people, especially and sick people that.

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Speaker 2: They're scared, they're in pain, they're anxious, So you actually

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Speaker 2: see people at their worst. But the interaction you can

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Speaker 2: have with them is super meaningful.

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Speaker 3: So if you help them out of that situation, you

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Speaker 3: know they'll.

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Speaker 2: Remember you for a long long time afterwards, you know,

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Speaker 2: perhaps for the rest of their life because you have

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Speaker 2: helped them in this difficult situation.

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Speaker 3: So to have that many for impact with people teaches

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Speaker 3: you something.

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Speaker 2: But it also it filters into your own capacity, of

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Speaker 2: your skill set, but building with other things in life.

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Speaker 3: So right, being a doctor's very privileged.

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Speaker 2: Position, but you learn most of well, I learned most

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Speaker 2: of my medical information not from what I learned at UNI,

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Speaker 2: but from actually being with people.

440
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 3: And I've done that in a lot of different environments.

441
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: So you know, I've worked in emergency departments, I've worked

442
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 2: at general practice, I've worked.

443
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 3: At festivals, I've traveled the.

444
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 2: World, I've worked in different alternative medical settings, and you know,

445
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: I've learned in all of them.

446
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure the answer to my next question is, well,

447
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: lots of things. But is there one thing that springs

448
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: to mind when I say, what's something that you've changed

449
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: your mind about, like maybe a significant thing that you

450
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: think a and now you think fucking Z.

451
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great I think you asked me that

452
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 2: once before, and it's a really great question.

453
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: Right, And I mean, I need to do better.

454
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: Well, well, I've always been very contrarian.

455
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: So I remember when Marjorine came out, and you know,

456
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: I was saying, that's better than but I said, bullshit,

457
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: you know, but it's the best, you know, so and

458
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: and then there was, you know, the fight against that.

459
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: The whole medical world was you know, low fat diyce

460
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: and I was, that's bullshit. You know, I've seen through

461
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that the medical world was sort

462
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 2: of touting and then they've changed the medical world has

463
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: changed your mind.

464
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 3: But I've always had that opposite view. I mean, one

465
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: of the things that I'm just learning now.

466
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 2: I mean, I used to think that the whole financial

467
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: world was all just bullshit and irrelevant and not not.

468
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 3: Irrelevant, but it was.

469
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: It was a scam that you couldn't get into, and

470
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: I was never really focused on money and that.

471
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: Now I've actually been, you know, throughout the pandemic.

472
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 2: In the last few years, I've been studying the history

473
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 2: of money, and that's been really interesting. And now I mean,

474
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: I'm proponent of bitcoin, and I'm super fortunate because I

475
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 2: you know, I turned sixty this year.

476
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: I got my super I dumped it all into bitcoin.

477
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 3: That's been sensational for me.

478
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: Hang on, when did you dump it in? What months?

479
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 3: I was from March onwards? I sort of had too.

480
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: Good good time to dump because you've already doubled your money,

481
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: haven't you.

482
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, well almost, yeah so.

483
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: But then, but learning about that there is a form

484
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: of money that actually represents value, that that's not controlled

485
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: by governments, and that whole world, the whole world of

486
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 2: economics and finances, I really wasn't interested in it. Now

487
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: become interested in in the power to change people for

488
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: the bet for the for the better, and actually have

489
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: a good effect in the world. So that's that's been

490
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: a real learning for me at the moment, because in

491
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: the past, I've just you know, I mean, I didn't

492
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: really even though I did medicine, most and a lot

493
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: of people do medicine of the status and the money,

494
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: you know, I was, I was a university student for

495
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: thirty years. You don't make money doing that. So money

496
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 2: wasn't really high in my priorities. But now it's like, oh, wow,

497
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: money is a force of good in the world, or

498
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: can be a force of good in the world when

499
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: it's egalitarian and decentralized and not controlled by people with

500
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: the puppet strings. So that's that's been a real change

501
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 2: in my life. And I guess I'm you know, I'm

502
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: super fortunate because she always thought that by the time

503
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: I retired or but by to my access, my super

504
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: the whole financial system is going to collapse. And now

505
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: I see, Okay, we're gonna have this nice transition or

506
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 2: nice condition, and I'm really optimistic about the future.

507
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 3: So that that whole attitude towards money has changed.

508
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: Not that you know, I'm really focused on money now,

509
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: but it's like I just just have a lot of

510
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: disdain for that whole world.

511
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 3: And now I've got more.

512
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: Respect for seeing that the positive things that can happen.

513
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: But what else have I changed my I mean I

514
00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 2: used to be I mean, I've never been political ever,

515
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: you know, left or right or anything. But I was

516
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: really brought into the whole climate debate and carbon dioxide

517
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: and all this sort of stuff and thinking we have

518
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: to do sustainability. But I never thought about it from

519
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: the climate or carbon doxide perspective. Always thought about it

520
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: from a toxicity perspective.

521
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And but.

522
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I used to talk a lot

523
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: about sustainability in the wellness world and looking at you know,

524
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: water usage and carbon doxide emission. But now I'm changed

525
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: my tune on that. But I'm really I mean that

526
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: one of the items on my you know, my mission

527
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 2: statement is to obtain your toxic load.

528
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 3: How can we have it's toxicity, So that that's that's

529
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: been a focus.

530
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: But I have changed my my attitudes a little bit

531
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: about I mean, I'm into you know, saving power and

532
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: you know, not wasting not wasting things, but not because

533
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: it's going to change the climate or you know, overpopulation

534
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: all those sort of issues.

535
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: You know, I think we need more people.

536
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: I think people are an asset on the world, So

537
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: that's I guess. No, I really have great hope for people,

538
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: and I used to think I used to discount a

539
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 2: lot of people just to have thinking ninety people and muppets, and.

540
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: That doesn't bode well for you, and itiv Hey, we've

541
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: got to wind We've got to wind up. But I

542
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: want to ask you one I just want you to

543
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: riff for a few minutes on this very commonly spoken

544
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: about idea, which is seeing as we're talking about making

545
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: sense of life, which is life purpose, everyone is like

546
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, this spiritual thing that

547
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: we've got to find our life purpose under some mystical

548
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: rock somewhere, or or maybe we choose it and create

549
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: it and then live it. What are your thoughts on

550
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: that as an idea.

551
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: Well, I think it is great to have a purpose.

552
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: And I think one of the greatest things I've had

553
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: in my life is a focus. You know, I've focused

554
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: on fun and I've done that through the sort of

555
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: the container of medicine. So that's been a great and

556
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: because I've done this for forty years now, you know,

557
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: I've sort of propelled myself far down that route where

558
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people they don't know what they want

559
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: in life. And I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell

560
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: who says follow your bliss, which is similar to my

561
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: stating you find the fun. You know, if you find

562
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: your fun in life, that will guide you to where

563
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: you're going to get the most fulfillment and the most

564
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: learning and the most enjoyment, and also you're going to

565
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: be the most asset to other people. And in my life,

566
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: I've always said, rather than fighting what I don't want,

567
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm actually going to work towards what I do want.

568
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: What you don't want, you're focusing on something that's not fun,

569
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: you know, it's something that's negative, and you're fighting all

570
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: the time, Whereas if you're focusing on what you want,

571
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: you're focusing on something that's fun, that's enjoyable, that you're

572
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: aiming for and working towards that is actually really rewarding.

573
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: So having a purpose in life is finding what you

574
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: want and working towards that, and that and the guide

575
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: for what you want to focus on. I used to

576
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: have a lot of discussions with PhD students and you know,

577
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: career decisions, and I love those discussions because you Again,

578
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: a little discussion can put someone on a whole trajectory

579
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: towards a whole different life purpose. But you know, telling

580
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: people what do you love doing that When you're doing it,

581
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: you lose track of the time.

582
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: Once just something you read.

583
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: When you're reading it, you know, you're just you're reading

584
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: up all night because you're staying up or not reading

585
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: that because that's you're really interested in that.

586
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: They're the things you want to focus on.

587
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: That's where you'll find your purpose, That's where you'll find

588
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: your fun, and that's where you'll get the most learning,

589
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: the most rewarding life by focusing on the things that

590
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: you really enjoy that turn you on.

591
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 3: So that's yeah, that's that's as far as a purpose.

592
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be a big goal.

593
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to change the world, you know, I must

594
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: want to get to Mars or whatever it is.

595
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: But it's it's finding and it.

596
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: Can be just built in creating a family, bring stuff

597
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: with the kids, creating a beautiful environment. But the things

598
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: that you enjoy, focus on them, and the things that

599
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: you don't want in the world, let them just you pass.

600
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: You by last one just quickly. Sixty seconds is contentment sustainable?

601
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: Is it or is it transient? Like can we just

602
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 1: because it seems like us humans a lot of us

603
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: wherever we are, it's not where we want to be.

604
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: Whatever we have, it's not what, it's not enough, whatever

605
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: we achieve, it's got to be a bit more like

606
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: it seems like contentment eludes us.

607
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's you're going to balance between the

608
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: present and the future. So you know, you can be

609
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: content in the moment, but you still want to work

610
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: towards something in the future, and that that's that's a

611
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: real it's a paradox because you want to you want

612
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: to be in the moment one hundred percent right now,

613
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: but you're still working towards a potential future.

614
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: We have to we have to snap between the two.

615
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: And that's the paradox of being human, where when you're

616
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: when you're totally in the moment, when you're totally in

617
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: flo you're.

618
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: Not actually thinking that's contentment. But when you start to think.

619
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: Of the past or the future, then you're not happy

620
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: and you have to change things. And we need to

621
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: do both, and I think we need a balance. So

622
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: you want to balance being fully content in the moment,

623
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: just happy with where you are and how you are,

624
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: but also working towards a better future.

625
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: That's why we get you. Hey, mate, we appreciate you.

626
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming to play on the

627
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: new project again. Do you want to direct our audience

628
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: to your website or any other source or tool that

629
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: you want to point them out?

630
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: My website's doctor Mark D M A r C dot

631
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: co dot co. I'm a little bit active on LinkedIn

632
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: and Facebook, but vary. Sometimes when I travel and do stuff,

633
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: I put out a lot. Sometimes I don't put out

634
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: much at all, but yeah.

635
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: Doctor Mark dot com. I've got a few businesses.

636
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: We make combuch of vinegars and tonics and water filters,

637
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: and I've got children's books and I've got poetry, free

638
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: poetry in my website.

639
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, people can check me out on my website.

640
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: They can email me if they want to through my

641
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: website if they want to connect.

642
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, thanks for inviting me on. It's always it's

643
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: always a pleasure.

644
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: Thanks mate. We appreciate you. Thanks TV. Thanks boys,