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Speaker 1: Good eight Champions. Dr Sam is back on board for

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Speaker 1: the You Project. Craig Anthony Harper is my name, But

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Speaker 1: do you know that? And it's fair to say, doctor Sam,

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Speaker 1: that we just had a little micro coaching session before

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Speaker 1: we started rolling, because you've got can I say, we

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Speaker 1: won't say where or what, but you've got a reasonably

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Speaker 1: big public speaking event coming up. And while I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you'll kill it and crush it, there's a tiny little

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Speaker 1: bit of nerves in there, which is healthy and good.

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Speaker 1: Was it helpful? Was the little micro coaching session helpful?

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Speaker 2: It really was, And I think being able to even

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Speaker 2: babelize that right of going actually I'm feeling really nervous

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Speaker 2: about it, and this is kind of where I feel

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Speaker 2: like the gap isn't being able to look that through

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Speaker 2: I think is really it is really helpful. It gets

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Speaker 2: me to focus on the areas that I know I

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Speaker 2: need to while feeling confident with the areas that I've

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Speaker 2: got down packs. So it's good and.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, it's really important that we can

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Speaker 1: verbalize stuff. And I think also from even when we

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Speaker 1: have I'll call you an expert, oh, I call me

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Speaker 1: because that sounds fucking arrogant. But let's say we've got

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Speaker 1: two experts on a show right chatting, and then when

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Speaker 1: one of the experts goes, oh well I fuck this

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Speaker 1: up regularly, people are like, oh, well, you're more relatable

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Speaker 1: and the fact that you are very good at your job,

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Speaker 1: your world class, you're a leader in your space. But

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Speaker 1: now we're doing something which is kind of adjacent but

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Speaker 1: not the same as, which is working with a group

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Speaker 1: of people educating people. But as I said to you, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you're not lecturing university students. I didn't say that actually,

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Speaker 1: but it's very different. If you've got one hundred UNI students,

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Speaker 1: you're in an academic setting, we're in a lecture theater.

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Speaker 1: You kind of just got to give them the information

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Speaker 1: you want it to be not too boring. But then

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Speaker 1: when you're in a public speaking environment where you don't

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Speaker 1: know who you're talking to. They could be educated academically

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Speaker 1: or not. They could be there's you know, two hundred people,

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Speaker 1: You've got two hundred personalities, two hundred backgrounds, two hundred

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Speaker 1: lenses are looking at you through their own kind of filter,

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Speaker 1: and so there is essentially as an experience for all

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Speaker 1: of them, there's two hundred different versions of SAM. And

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Speaker 1: so that's the thing is like trying to understand And

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Speaker 1: I told you we were going to dive into my

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Speaker 1: stuff today a little bit just because I want to

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Speaker 1: get your feedback on stuff, but trying to understand the

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Speaker 1: SAM experience for a people full of room, a room

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Speaker 1: full of people. Put your teeth in a room full

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Speaker 1: of people in real time. Like that's because one, you've

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Speaker 1: got to get up there and do your presentation. You've

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Speaker 1: got to not stammer and stutter. You've got to be

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Speaker 1: at the very least kind of look okay and confidence

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Speaker 1: and you know, but then at the same time you

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Speaker 1: need to be present enough to go all right, I

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Speaker 1: might chuck in a little activity here because I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm losing them, or you know whatever. It is

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Speaker 1: that ability to be able to know your shit but

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Speaker 1: also adapt in real time and be present in real

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Speaker 1: time and not be the the very intelligent, educated person

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Speaker 1: who gets up there and the room finds my numbingly boring.

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Speaker 1: So it's a real it's like a multitasking kind of

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Speaker 1: in the moment thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I've just been to so many of those kind

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Speaker 2: of presentations myself. You know, when I go to professional

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Speaker 2: development that I'm sitting in this in a presentation and

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at these slides and going this literally looks

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Speaker 2: like copy and paste jobs from a jeneral article, and

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Speaker 2: I could have read this journal article. Or they're just

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Speaker 2: reading like literally academic like academica, you know kind of stuff,

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Speaker 2: and there is no translating it to practice. There's no context,

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Speaker 2: there's no stories, there's no deeper understanding than what I

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Speaker 2: would have got from just reading that. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know what that feels like. It's almost like you

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Speaker 2: kind of just check out mentally. No one presitation like that,

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Speaker 2: so I know what it's on the other side. So

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Speaker 2: I don't want to give that experience either.

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Speaker 1: I think some people call this, which is just a

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Speaker 1: bit of a play on words I'm writing it down,

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Speaker 1: they call it edutainment, right. I like it entertainment because

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Speaker 1: and you don't need to be a performer or a

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Speaker 1: stand up comic or a world class storyteller, but a

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Speaker 1: little bit of all of that. You know, it's because like, well,

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Speaker 1: do you want them to like you? And I know

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Speaker 1: that sounds like an insecure question, but will fucking of course,

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Speaker 1: because I want them to say good things and have

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Speaker 1: a good experience and learn and hopefully build a poor

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Speaker 1: and connection. And some people think that if they're confident

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Speaker 1: with their topic, they'll be a good speaker. And the

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Speaker 1: amount of times probably you've seen that, and I've seen

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Speaker 1: that where somebody who is literally more intelligent than me

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Speaker 1: got more knowledge than me about a different area anyway,

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Speaker 1: and they get up and I feel bad for them

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Speaker 1: because the energy in the room just fucking dies a

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Speaker 1: horrible death while they soldier on with their PowerPoint slides

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Speaker 1: or worse. And I've seen this happen multiple times where

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Speaker 1: their PowerPoint crashed and they could not recover. They did

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Speaker 1: not know what to do because they couldn't just be

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Speaker 1: there in real time just talking about their stuff because

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Speaker 1: it's all choreographed. You know.

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Speaker 2: That would even feel like more pressure too, right because

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Speaker 2: they'd be like, I know exactly how it's meant to

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Speaker 2: go from you know, slide one to ten, and then,

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Speaker 2: like he said, something happens in side three and they

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Speaker 2: just don't know how to come back from that because

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Speaker 2: they're like only nowhere in this order, I don't know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what to do now, versus like you said, just feeling

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Speaker 2: away kind of confident and yeah, in what you're doing,

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Speaker 2: I would assume just within his yeah, And I.

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Speaker 1: Think for anyone listening who is somewhat interesting, not necessarily

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Speaker 1: being a public speaker, but you know, when you're trying

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Speaker 1: to solve problems with people or help open kind of

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Speaker 1: an awareness door for people, or to educate or inform

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Speaker 1: people in a way which works for them, right, because

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Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest things, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: an idea in psychology called the false consensus effect, where

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Speaker 1: we assume that other people think like us. So I

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Speaker 1: would in that case, I would get up and I

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Speaker 1: would talk as I was talking to one hundred crags, right,

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Speaker 1: But there's not one hundred craigs in the room. There's one.

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Speaker 1: So if I talk as though I was talking to

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Speaker 1: one hundred different versions of me, undoubtedly I will crash

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Speaker 1: and burn. So to start from the assumption that are

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Speaker 1: they're not like me, not better or worse, They're just

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Speaker 1: not me. They're different and trying to ascertain you know.

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Speaker 1: That's why as much as you can, you figure out

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Speaker 1: who's going to be in the audience, so you can

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Speaker 1: you might just go, oh, it's the general public that's cool,

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Speaker 1: or these are all corporates, or these are all the

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Speaker 1: lead athletes. All these are all blokes that I'm working

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Speaker 1: with on a construction site, which I've done. All these

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Speaker 1: are all blokes that I'm working with in a prison,

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Speaker 1: which I've done, or I've done multiple gigs. At the

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Speaker 1: Royal Australian College of Surgeons Annual Conference, I go, well,

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Speaker 1: everyone in the room except me is a surgeon, right,

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Speaker 1: so that gives you certain context. Right, So I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to talk to the room full of surgeons like

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Speaker 1: a room full of whatever our trade is not because

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Speaker 1: one's better or worse, but they just don't typically think

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Speaker 1: and talk and solve problems the same. So I'm always like,

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Speaker 1: who's my audience? What am I talking about? What are

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Speaker 1: the key things I want to get across? But more importantly,

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Speaker 1: how do I build trust, respect and rapport quickly and

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Speaker 1: give them something that is going to be helpful? Like,

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Speaker 1: just really is this helpful? Because so much shit is

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Speaker 1: not helpful. It's just fucking noise.

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Speaker 2: It's noise, and it's just an information overload. And they

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Speaker 2: leave and they're like I don't feel any better off,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't have a next step. I don't have

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Speaker 2: this insight that I can actually translate to practice or yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I agree, you don't want to you don't want

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Speaker 2: to give a talk like that where people don't leave inspired,

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Speaker 2: maybe feel a bit challenge, but also you know, has

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Speaker 2: that next step bit to it as well.

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Speaker 1: And there's another I guess another component that people are

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Speaker 1: aware of and think about but then don't necessarily have

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Speaker 1: a strategy, which is the fear and the anxiety and

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Speaker 1: the nerves. Yeah, and it's like, oh, well, and this

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Speaker 1: is a well worn trope here at the at the

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Speaker 1: U projects, I apologize for my listeners, but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: At least five hundred times in my life, probably a thousand,

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Speaker 1: I've been asked by people how do I overcome my

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Speaker 1: fear of public speaking? And the answer is very unexciting

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Speaker 1: because the answer is by public speaking. Yep. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like, how do I get better at doing arm

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Speaker 1: bars in jiu jitsu by doing arm bars in jiu jitsu?

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Speaker 1: How do I get better at tennis because I'm shit?

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Speaker 1: By playing tennis? So you know, we also spoke before

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Speaker 1: about sometimes the best, the most advantageous and productive and

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Speaker 1: fruitful kind of thing that you can do for your

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Speaker 1: growth and your development and for you to build a

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Speaker 1: brand and competence in this field and space is a

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Speaker 1: thing that you don't fucking want to do because it's

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Speaker 1: hard and.

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Speaker 2: Horrible, and yet that is the way through, right, The

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Speaker 2: obstacle is a way. That's Ryan Holiday's book. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm starting with them, yeah, which is for me just

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Speaker 2: feels like such a concept that I especially coming from

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Speaker 2: an academic background. You know, we try and read and

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Speaker 2: prepare and get this knowledge and then we're going to

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Speaker 2: be ready, right. And I think sometimes even a mental

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Speaker 2: health system still speaks like this. It's like, go to

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Speaker 2: therapy and let's just learn more skills and war coping strategies,

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Speaker 2: and no one talks about the actual thing that helps,

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Speaker 2: especially when it comes to anxiety, is doing the thing,

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Speaker 2: experiencing life. It's the experiences that actually helps us, not

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Speaker 2: the preparation in our heads for it. And I think

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Speaker 2: about that with public speaking. A lot of the time

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Speaker 2: people are like, let me just get confident first, let

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Speaker 2: me get all this fear out of the way, and

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Speaker 2: then I will start being a public speaker, rather than

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Speaker 2: going actually, I'm going to feel the fear and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to do it anyway, this doesn't actually have to change,

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Speaker 2: but through the process of showing up even amongst this,

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Speaker 2: it will change. That is how it does, right when

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Speaker 2: you have new experiences and you're able to overcome.

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Speaker 1: In Yeah, this seems like a self centered, egotistical question,

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Speaker 1: but it is at the core of my research. Do

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Speaker 1: you ever think about what it's like being around you

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the world, like on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: with your kids, with your friends, with your peers, for

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Speaker 1: your patients, for the parents that you do you ever

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Speaker 1: think what is the Sam Casey experience like for other people?

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Speaker 1: And does that matter? And why does that matter? And

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Speaker 1: maybe what cold or should I do with that awareness.

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Speaker 2: That's really good, that's really good question, because you know,

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Speaker 2: given my academic background leaving high school quite early on,

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Speaker 2: I was never the smart one, is never the one

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Speaker 2: acing school. I was failing, right, So I never had

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Speaker 2: that identity of being that, but I definitely saw that

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Speaker 2: with a lot of people. And then I obviously know

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Speaker 2: what the title doctor holes in society, So I think,

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Speaker 2: if anything, I'm probably really quite conscious of that, probably

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Speaker 2: since getting the PhD, not so much the degrees, but

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Speaker 2: when I got my PhD, I was like whoa. People

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Speaker 2: are going to see me a certain way and almost

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Speaker 2: like put me on a pedestal in potentially good ways,

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Speaker 2: but not so great ways too. And I think that

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Speaker 2: power in balance I've become very conscious of because you know,

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Speaker 2: people asking for advices and just asking someone for advice,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're like, you're a doctor, so what you

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Speaker 2: say is like, and I'm having to constantly, especially as

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Speaker 2: a therapism, having to constantly remind them you're an expert

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Speaker 2: in your life. I've not lived your life before. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm to be a mayor. I'm supposed to be, you know,

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Speaker 2: walking alongside you on this journey. Yes, I may have

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Speaker 2: expertise in all these human behavior and psychology and all

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Speaker 2: of those things, but you have expertise on yourself and

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Speaker 2: together that we're on this journey rather than them kind

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Speaker 2: of giving all the decision making to me. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I do think about that a lot, and I think

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Speaker 2: it can help in ways thinking about it, because it then,

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Speaker 2: you know, gets me to be conscious of the power dynamics,

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Speaker 2: for example. But on another token, I think sometimes it

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Speaker 2: also could be something that they're working through too, And

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Speaker 2: I think the more I can share maybe my journey

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Speaker 2: about how I take radical responsibility for my life and

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Speaker 2: I don't believe there is any expert out there that

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Speaker 2: knows me as well as myself. It means I can

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Speaker 2: go to people for advice, so I can get great advice,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately, right I hold the decision making for my life.

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Speaker 2: I have to go do the hard thing. You can

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Speaker 2: sit and talk to me for hours about public speaking,

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Speaker 2: giving me all the tips, but at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, I have to drive myself out of bed

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Speaker 2: that day and to put it on clothes and get

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Speaker 2: on that stage.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So I think the more I hope that I can

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Speaker 2: share that journey for myself, you know, of being responsible

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Speaker 2: for my life, the more hopefully others will yeah, take

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Speaker 2: the experts off the pedestal and start taking responsibility for

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Speaker 2: their yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not it's getting on stage or doing something else.

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Speaker 1: I think that kind of thinking applies. And also one

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Speaker 1: of the you know, because I'm very late to that. Well.

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Speaker 1: I did my undergrad degree a long time ago in

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Speaker 1: exi science, but I'm late to the game, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so for me, academia is like a curious wonderland of

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Speaker 1: brilliance and bullshit. I'm like Some of it's fucking amazing.

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Speaker 1: Some of it I'm like, oh, this is I won't

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Speaker 1: use the word that I want to use, but this

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Speaker 1: is so not brilliant. This is like, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: there is a mix of genius and stupidity in the

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Speaker 1: same room. Like you're like, how fucking hard can you

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Speaker 1: make this one thing? Like even sometimes meetings at university,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, I could make this meeting ten minutes,

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Speaker 1: not an hour and a half. We could get everything done.

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Speaker 1: Most of what was said in there was just fucking

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Speaker 1: people just rambling or maybe twenty minutes, you know. And

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Speaker 1: of course then there are other things where I'm in

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Speaker 1: a conversation and I'm a fucking idiot because I don't

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Speaker 1: know what they know, right, So but I think I

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Speaker 1: think the ability or the willingness maybe to go like

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Speaker 1: if all my knowledge is sounds funny, but a box

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Speaker 1: of tic TACs, right, that's all my knowledge. That's all

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Speaker 1: as a box of tic TACs. All of those tic

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Speaker 1: TACs except for one at the bottom, has come through life,

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Speaker 1: not through research or study or academia. Like I think

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Speaker 1: we really in our culture overestimate the value of academia

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Speaker 1: as an attribute I think it's I think it's valuable.

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Speaker 1: Don't don't misquote me or misunderstanding I think it's valuable.

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Speaker 1: I think it's good. But when I try to explain

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Speaker 1: to people, they go, oh, so you'll be a doctor

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Speaker 1: of psychology. I go, well, technically, yes, but if psychology

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Speaker 1: is an ocean, I spent six years studying a drop

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Speaker 1: of water in that ocean of information and knowledge and research.

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Speaker 1: So if we wanted to be really accurate, I will

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Speaker 1: have a doctorate in a meta perception and meta accuracy,

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Speaker 1: which almost nobody knows what it is. And that's cool.

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Speaker 1: But I could then perhaps be loosely termed an expert

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Speaker 1: in that. But psychology is so big, But that's true.

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Speaker 1: With a lot of degrees. You come out and you're

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Speaker 1: a you're a doctor of engineering, or you're a doctor

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Speaker 1: of business or you know. But I know the fuck

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Speaker 1: ten people with pH ds in business who have never

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Speaker 1: owned a business. Yes, like they have a doctor in business,

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Speaker 1: but they've never owned a business. I might go talk

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Speaker 1: to a successful business owner.

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Speaker 2: First, Yeah, you're right, it is such a Oh it is,

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Speaker 2: it's so important, But then it also so with it.

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Speaker 2: Think about the knowledge and how much it actually influences us.

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Speaker 2: When you know, when you look at the field of psychology,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the time people do think of psychology

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Speaker 2: is only the DSM and only you know, diagnostic stuff,

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Speaker 2: and that's really not a lot of the core and

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Speaker 2: the foundational stuff of psychology. You know, it's how we

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Speaker 2: experience life and meaning making and all of these subjective experiences.

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Speaker 2: And then what you said there around the entrepreneur, it's

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Speaker 2: the experience that they've learned, writing the lessons and the

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Speaker 2: wisdom that comes from that, which was knowledge. There's no

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Speaker 2: feedback loop, like we're getting knowledge, but we're not really

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Speaker 2: being able to reflect on how we're processing it and

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Speaker 2: how that's coming out. And my actual PhD research found this,

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Speaker 2: and I was structed with it too, because when we

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Speaker 2: were looking at how does someone get trained and working

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Speaker 2: with different cultures for example, it's like, let's get more

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Speaker 2: knowledge around this. And what we found is no matter

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Speaker 2: for PhD level therapists, to graduate therapists, it wasn't knowledge

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Speaker 2: that was coming out in their sessions. It was actually

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Speaker 2: their own callas, their own worldviews, their own but their

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Speaker 2: own stuff. Yes, and yet they don't I noticed in

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Speaker 2: social work, we very much do we do a lot

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Speaker 2: of critical reflection, but I find in psychology they don't

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Speaker 2: really have much space for that because we're meant to

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Speaker 2: be this blank slate. And so the problem was they

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Speaker 2: were like, oh, no, I'm being super professional. My degree

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Speaker 2: is the only thing I'm using when I'm working with

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Speaker 2: this family. But actually it was their own views about

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Speaker 2: what a mum should do and what a dad should do,

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Speaker 2: and what a child should do and all of these

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Speaker 2: things coming out, which really the knowledge actually didn't ship

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Speaker 2: the surface of that. So I do feel both we

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Speaker 2: need understanding of ourselves. We need that continuous reflection and

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Speaker 2: using knowledge is almost like yeah, going back and forth

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Speaker 2: right with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and realizing that the knowledge and the insight and

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Speaker 1: the skills developed and achieved through academic research is good.

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Speaker 1: Like there's no criticism here. But it's one part of

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Speaker 1: the human exper it's one part of knowledge, it's one

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Speaker 1: part of understanding. Like I've got friends who My best

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Speaker 1: mate in the world, he Vin. He left school at

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Speaker 1: year eleven, he worked forever, still working, He's a tradee.

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Speaker 1: You talk to him. I talked to him, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: he's smarter than me, like about a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: That we talk about. He's smarter, and he can explain

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Speaker 1: to you things about human behavior and he doesn't realize

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Speaker 1: what he's doing, but his understanding of how people work essentially,

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Speaker 1: which we would call psychology or sociology or neuropsychology or whatever.

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Speaker 1: He'll explain things to you. You wouldn't even know what he's describing.

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Speaker 1: But he's right, like he wouldn't even know the psychological

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Speaker 1: construct or the term or the label. But because he's

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Speaker 1: done so much stuff, met so many people, solved so

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Speaker 1: many problems, had so many experiences, and being open minded

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Speaker 1: and aware, his knowledge is fucking amazing. And it's like,

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Speaker 1: but that's not held in high regard broadly speaking, where

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Speaker 1: you know, I think even with my undergrad and exercise science,

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Speaker 1: by the time I did that, I had already been

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Speaker 1: working for eighteen years in gyms and owning gyms because

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Speaker 1: I started at thirty six. And while it was interesting

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Speaker 1: for me other than anatomy and physiology and biomechanics and

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Speaker 1: some of the real science, I did not learn a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I loved the experience. But I didn't go away

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Speaker 1: like I'll tell you a funny story. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I've ever told this, but I so, for example, one

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Speaker 1: of the subjects in my course was exercise programming, exercise programming, right,

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Speaker 1: And it was apparent it doesn't matter who, but our

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Speaker 1: lecturer had never prescribed exercise in the real world. Right,

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Speaker 1: great guy, really good, but his real area of expertise

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Speaker 1: was kind of high level physiology and all of this. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it'd kind of been lumped into teaching this subject.

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Speaker 1: And at the end of the first lecture, he came

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Speaker 1: up to me and said, because that was my job,

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Speaker 1: was prescribing exercise for everyone, for athletes, for non athletes,

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Speaker 1: people with abilities and disabilities in the general public. And

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Speaker 1: I had probably at that stage, I'd probably written twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand programs by the time I sat in that lecture, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean this is over nearly twenty years, right. And

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Speaker 1: I would write multiple programs a day and train my

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Speaker 1: you know. And he went, how did I go? Because

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Speaker 1: he came to me for approval, and I went, you

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Speaker 1: know whatever, And he said to me, if I could

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Speaker 1: organize with I don't know whoever the powers that be,

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Speaker 1: because I was already teaching that in vic fit courses.

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Speaker 1: I was teaching exercise programming at a higher level, right,

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Speaker 1: so I ended up teaching one subject in my own

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Speaker 1: degree at university. That's crazy because I was more knowledgeable

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Speaker 1: than the people, like they were smarter than me and

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Speaker 1: more knowledgeable at everything else. But it's like this is

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Speaker 1: the thing, like, well, how do you know all that well?

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Speaker 1: Because I've been doing all that? Like what are you

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Speaker 1: teaching your Yes, yeah, this is good in a book,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't fucking work in a gym.

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Speaker 2: Like you, when you realize it doesn't work, you're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: so it doesn't work, then what do we do exactly?

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Speaker 1: And so it can be this beautiful synthesis of stuff

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Speaker 1: that you've learned academically or theoretically, or watched a video

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Speaker 1: or read something online. You don't need to be at UNI.

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Speaker 1: You can learn lots, and then you can go try stuff,

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Speaker 1: and then you can see what is the relationship between

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Speaker 1: what I read or what I learned or that paper

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Speaker 1: that I read, and when I tried to put that

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Speaker 1: into practice, what was the real world experience and outcome?

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Speaker 1: And then you kind of arrive at something which is

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Speaker 1: close to like a bigger truth or a more you know,

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Speaker 1: a more what's the word, like like a fuller version

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Speaker 1: of you know other than this, and it's the same.

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Speaker 1: If I only had experience in the field, I don't

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Speaker 1: think I would be well. I definitely wouldn't be as

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Speaker 1: good or as knowledgeable or perhaps capable as I am,

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Speaker 1: because I've also got a fair bit of academic stuff

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: Why both is so powerful? You need both? I feel

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Speaker 2: like it if you need to go with the knowledge

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Speaker 2: and then you and then you have the experience, and

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Speaker 2: then you go back to the knowledge, and then you

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Speaker 2: go back to the you need to keep doing both.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And I say to people, you do not

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Speaker 1: need to be a scientist to be scientific, Like what

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Speaker 1: did you do? What was your protocol? What was your aim?

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Speaker 1: Like when you started, what did you want to achieve?

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Speaker 1: Do be create change? What was the intention? And then

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Speaker 1: what did you do? What's the protocol? Right? And then

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Speaker 1: what were your results? What happened? And what's your interpretation

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Speaker 1: of the results? Right? That's science. You don't need to

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Speaker 1: go to you you don't need to go to you

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Speaker 1: need to do that.

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Speaker 2: I think that is just such a good way approaching

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Speaker 2: life too, being experimented, like you've never lived this life before,

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Speaker 2: and you know based on what age and what circumstanture

430
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 2: and you've not lived that phase of your life that season,

431
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: and so being able to be an again a researcher

432
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 2: experiment with your life, it just takes a pressure off

433
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: because it goes beyond I need to get this right

434
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: and this needs to be perfect too. I'm just going

435
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 2: to try this and see what works for me, and

436
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 2: I'm going to just continuously be refined and refining, reassessing,

437
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: readjusting as they need to. But it's always going to

438
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: be this process of doing that, and I think that's

439
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 2: a really good way of approaching. I think you know

440
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: when people come to therapy and they're like, just give

441
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: me the is it yoga, like, is it breathwork? Like,

442
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: give me the one thing that's going to change at all?

443
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: And you can't give that right Based on what someone

444
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: is going through. They might need little bits of everything,

445
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: but you have to start somewhere and you have to

446
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 2: be able to be willing to get that feedback.

447
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: Yes, And it is very hard to be objective about

448
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: what's happening in your life because your experience of your

449
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 1: life is subjective. But what is objective is results. Yep, Okay,

450
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: I followed this program. Cool, what happened, What happened at

451
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: the end of the four weeks or the six or

452
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: the eight weeks. Like I always say to people or

453
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: ask people, what is your life telling you? Because you

454
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: are always producing results, always producing results, So what's the data?

455
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: So when you talk to your kid this way and

456
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: you've got this challenge that you're working through in the

457
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: last ten times you approached it that way, what do

458
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: you now know? What do you know that you didn't

459
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: know before you started those ten interactions? Like what is now?

460
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: That's not necessarily the totality, but it's somewhat indicative. It's

461
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: like if I have a coffee, Like I'm having a

462
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: coffee now. I just finished. It's two forty nine. If

463
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: I had a coffee at six forty nine, that would

464
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: really fuck me up. I've had two coffees today, but

465
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: my results tell me my outcomes tell me three coffees

466
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: a day. No good for me.

467
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's the immediate feedback, right. What about a

468
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: situation like someone leaving their job because they're wanting to

469
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: pursue an entrepreneuri like you know, Jenny, what about if

470
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: someone goes You've got no job now? So if you

471
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: look at that in terms of what is your life

472
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: telling you. It could look like a failure, right, but

473
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: patch we know that this person could be wildly successful

474
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: six months down the track. So how do you reckon?

475
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 2: How do you get that feedback from your life without?

476
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a standalone thing that happened amongst a

477
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: million things that will happen to you. Yeah, and over

478
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: the totality of your life. I've failed at many things,

479
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: many many things. I've done speaking gigs that were horrible,

480
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: of run programs that didn't work. I've you know, I

481
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: could give you a list, you know, like we were

482
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: talking before we're on air about how many episodes of

483
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: the You Project I did before it worked or before

484
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: it became commercially viable. Well, probably, if I had any

485
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: common sense, I would have given up an episode fucking

486
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: five hundred because people would go cray for Fox's sake.

487
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: Your results are telling you don't do this, and I'm like, well,

488
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: my results so far. But if this is how I thought, Okay,

489
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: so I'm five hundred episodes in, I'm still not making money.

490
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: But what I know is a lot. I have learned

491
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: so much about podcasting, about interviewing, about editing, about what

492
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: people want and don't want, about my multiple flaws. You

493
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: talk too much, you talk over the top of people,

494
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: you do I still do some of that, right, But

495
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: it's even though you're not producing, because I think, of

496
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: course we want to make money. Yeah, we want a

497
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: job where we want to make money. But if I said,

498
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: but also, do you want to work in an environment

499
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: that you love, well I do. Do you want to

500
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: be around people that value and respect you? Yeah? I do.

501
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: Do you want to get out of bed and look

502
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: forward to going work? Well yeah I do. You know,

503
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: it's not just about do, It's about a multitude of things.

504
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: And all measurements of success is what you're saying.

505
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and also guess what like you're going to And again,

506
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: even a failure, well that's an individual interpretation. You could

507
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: just go didn't work out here. You're not blaming them,

508
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: You're not blaming you. You're just going I'm not here anymore. Cool.

509
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: So you can't undo that. You can't control what happened

510
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: this morning. You can't control that, can't change it. All

511
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: you can do is go where am I now? And

512
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: all of this, of course is theoretical and easier said

513
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: than done. All of it, But ultimately you go what

514
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: is in my control and what is not? And how

515
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: do I want to be and who do I want

516
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: to be? And this is all very as everyone's gone

517
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: rolling their eyes, paps. I understand this is way easier

518
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: said than done, But the truth is, and I've never

519
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: had to deal with this before, and I don't want

520
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: to bang on about it too much, but right now

521
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: my parents are both pretty unwell, and I'm like, oh, well,

522
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: I can't magic them into well, and I can't pretend.

523
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to pretend that it's great when it's not.

524
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: And by the way, they're okay everyone, They're in a

525
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: bit of a holding pattern, so it's finest. But there's

526
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: just so many things that are emotional. There are so

527
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: many things that are out of your control. There are

528
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: so many things that are unfair, that are uncertain, that

529
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: are not nice. There are so many things that are

530
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: painful and potentially really fucking painful. But in the middle

531
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: of all of that, you're like, well, yeah, this is life, Craig,

532
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: this is life, Sam, this is what happens like. Life

533
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: is not some conscious being that cares about your feelings

534
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: in the moment. Life is just a series of events

535
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: and people and outcomes good and bad, and challenges and

536
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: joy and pain and happiness and tears. That's as I

537
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: see it, as I experience, it's just the totality of

538
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: all of that. And so it's really like, you'll come

539
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: out of your gig next week. I'm sure you'll do

540
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: a good job. But if I was coaching you, go,

541
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: all right, let's the day after. Let's debrief. Tell me

542
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: about the gia. What did you do well? What did

543
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: you do? What didn't you do well? And what was

544
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle, and what did you learn? And

545
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: then so we take that experience. We don't call it

546
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: anything other than an experience. Yeah, you can call it

547
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: whatever you want if you want, but I would go, So,

548
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: you had an experience, you did a thing. Where are

549
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: we at? What was good? What wasn't blah blah? What

550
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: would you do different next time? What did you learn?

551
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: How was the you know there are now when we

552
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: put down the oh, I'm shit, I'm fucked, I'm no

553
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: good at that. You know, that's all emotional, and that's understandable,

554
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: but as best we can, like moving through life, being

555
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: controlled by emotion is an awesome way to have a

556
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: terrible life. Yeah, we want to feel the feeling, acknowledge

557
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: the emotion, but also try to be logical and strategic. Yes,

558
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: we're not pretending oh I was great. We're going, yeah,

559
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: I could have done better? Cool? What would you do different?

560
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: You know? So it's that nav gating the complexity and

561
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: the nuance of a myriad of intersecting factors and variable

562
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: that make up doctor Sam Casey's life and then figuring out, well,

563
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: this is you know, even how old are you again?

564
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: Thirty three or something stupid thirty five? You go, I'm

565
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: thirty five. Realistically, I've probably got another thirty five years

566
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: of work if I want less, if I want more,

567
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: who knows. But then I would go, Okay, so you've

568
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: been working for probably graduated at whatever you've been working,

569
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: because I know you started working early, but you've probably

570
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: been working for twenty years issue of your life. But

571
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: you've probably got another forty if you want. So you go,

572
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: do I want to be doing a version of this

573
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: in five years?

574
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah?

575
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: I do? But better? Or no, I don't I want

576
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: to be doing that? Cool. Well, let's maybe let's timeline

577
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: that a little bit, and course things will change because

578
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: the world's dynamic, and we are somewhat rigid and fixed.

579
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: So we need to be less rigid and fixed and

580
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: more dynamic and more adaptable. But that's that, you know.

581
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: That's why I literally called this show that you project

582
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: because I feel like our life is kind of a

583
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: project or even a study, and like you're the participant

584
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: and you're the researcher. Yeap on your project. I love that.

585
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: And all of what you said actually really aligns with

586
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: we call acceptance and commitment therapy ACT. I don't know

587
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: if you're aware. Yeah, what you're saying right that even

588
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: you know sometimes the other ways of going in and we

589
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: need to reduce that suffering, We need to reduce the symptoms.

590
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: And it's like, actually, what if we just experience accepts

591
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: that that's part of life and continue to go do

592
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: the thing, continue to work towards our values. Like you said,

593
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: who do I want to be in this moment? How

594
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: do I want to be in this moment? And I

595
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: really like that. I feel like that You're not then

596
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: going I'm going to wait for the perfect conditions and

597
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: then I'm going to go do the thing. It's I'm

598
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: going to make this work in the most imperfect conditions,

599
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: because I know if I can do it.

600
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: In that, I can do it.

601
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: And that's how much the exercise for me, especially like

602
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: I've been trying since six weeks postpardoned with my son,

603
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: when I was like, I need to get into fitness.

604
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: And if you could imagine having a little baby right,

605
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: things don't go to plan and breastfeeding them up all

606
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: hours of the night, all kinds of things. But rather

607
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: than going, it's either an hour I work out at

608
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: the gym or nothing. I thought of it like a spectrum,

609
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: and I'm like, every day I'm going to show up

610
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: for movement no matter what. Okay, I'm showing up. And

611
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: that could be like a ten minute, you know, body

612
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: weight session on my on my little mat while while

613
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: my baby's just there right at home, or it could

614
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: be in the gym for an hour and I get

615
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: you know, I'm lifting heavy weights, but either way, I'm

616
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: doing it. And I felt like this is what sustained

617
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: me pretty much throughout Again, what for the last ten

618
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: years where it doesn't look perfect. I have you know,

619
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: workouts that last you know, twenty minutes and it's not

620
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: that great. And I have workouts at last year and

621
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: a half and I'm like, this is amazing. But I

622
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: show up every day in some capacity for movement because

623
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: I do that for my mental health as well as

624
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: my physical health, and it's been able to do it

625
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: in the most imperfect conditions. I feel like if I

626
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: got that down paths, then it's just the resistant goes versus.

627
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: I hear a lot of people say I'm going to

628
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: go do that one hundred percent. I'm doing that. But

629
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: when this happens, when I'm closer to a gym, you know,

630
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: the life's a bit busy right now. When I come

631
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: back for my holiday, I'm going to start fresh. And

632
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, if you can't start today, it's not going

633
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: to be any easier after that holiday. If you can't

634
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: pull out them out for ten minutes and do some

635
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: stretches today this afternoon, I can assure you these barriers

636
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: in your head, the stories in your head that you're

637
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: saying about this is not going to go after this holiday.

638
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: Yes.

639
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think that really getting to know ourself

640
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: talk and ourself stories is so powerful when overcoming these things.

641
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've say to people all the time, start before

642
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: you're ready, because everybody's got a when I'm ready story

643
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: and then they look up and they're like, fuck, now

644
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: I'm forty five. Yeah, and the when I'm ready story

645
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: has been on loop since they were twenty two.

646
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: And you know what I find as well as for parents,

647
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: it becomes an avoidance. So you know, for parents, parenthood

648
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: becomes a way that we can say, oh, my kid's

649
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: a little right now. So when they're older, older the thing,

650
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: you know, I've really got to prioritize them right now.

651
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: And it's almost like motherhood is a perfect conditions for avoidance.

652
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: And what I've noticed with these women, right they because

653
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 2: they have their moms of babies to then todd list,

654
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: then school aged yis the teenagers and their grandparents and

655
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: they you know throughout that right it may take them

656
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 2: to get to that point to go, Actually, this is

657
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: a pattern. It's really got nothing to do with my

658
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 2: excel and everything to do with this story that I'm saying,

659
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: this is hard, and I'm trying to avoid the hard

660
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 2: rather than going I value my kids and I want

661
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: to be present in their life and I want to

662
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: have time with them, but this is something else I value,

663
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: and so how do I make this coexist? Again? Not

664
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: trying to get this perfect balance. But just going, how

665
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 2: do these two values of mine exist in my world?

666
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: Yeah? I love that. I had a chat with some

667
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: friends of mine a couple of months ago and they

668
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: had they've got three kids, and they had a relatively

669
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: new kid and the wife who's lovely. She was talking

670
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: to me about. I think she's got I think the

671
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: like a newish born maybe six months and maybe a

672
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: two and maybe a four, like still all at home

673
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: and fucking chaos, right, and it is. It's of course,

674
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: that's hard, harder than I can imagine because I'm just

675
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: a dumb bloke, so I don't try to understand what

676
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: that's like. But she said to me something like I

677
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: need a help, or I need an idea, or I

678
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: need something. She calls me harps, harps, just anything, and

679
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: I go, I will give you one. By the way,

680
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: this is not an answer. This is just a single idea,

681
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: a single experiment that I want you to do. But

682
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: you have to do it. Don't go oh, I started,

683
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: and otherwise I'm not going to talk to you. She goes,

684
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: I promise you, I will do it. And I said, so.

685
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: She lives in a two story house, and I said Okay,

686
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: So for the next thirty days, three times a day,

687
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: I want you to walk the stairs in your house

688
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: for five minutes, right, five minutes, So there's one four

689
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: hundred and forty minutes in a day. And yes, you're

690
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: doing stuff, feeding kids, sending kids to playgroup or whatever

691
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: it is, and you're sleeping, and you're you're doing all

692
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: the things that a busy mum and a busy woman does.

693
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: I get it. But of the fourteen forty, I want

694
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: you to invest fifteen, right, And all she did was

695
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: and I saw it wasn't thirty days later, but it

696
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: was probably a month and a half two months later.

697
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: And I said, how did you go? And this is

698
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: not a word of a lie. She lost three and

699
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 1: a half kilos. She didn't change your diet, She didn't.

700
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: She lost three and a half kilos. She goes, my

701
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: ass and my legs are fucking fantastic. Right, that's what

702
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: she's did. She goes, and the husband kind of goes, yeah,

703
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, so she toned her bum and legs. She

704
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: lost weight body weight, which means she probably actually built

705
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: some muscle and lost more than three and a half

706
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: kilos of fat paw as her brain worked better. She

707
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: was so much happier. And I said, what are you

708
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: doing now? She goes, I'm doing three times ten. So

709
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: she was now doing and I said great, and she goes,

710
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: what's next? And then I just chucked her in three

711
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: body weight exercises. And so she's still not going to

712
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: a gym, she still has no equipment, but she's doing

713
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: the thing consistently, the thing that was boring and wasn't

714
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: fun and wasn't convenient. All of a sudden, now she

715
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: gets excited about it because she's committed and she's getting results. Now.

716
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: You don't need a degree, you don't need a membership,

717
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: you don't you know. It's like, if we want to

718
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: find a way to do something, will that get her

719
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: into the Olympics? No? Will that move the needle on

720
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: a psychology, emotion, physiology, confidence, you know, happiness, emotions like

721
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: all of that. It's moving the needle. And she's like,

722
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: she goes, I'm excited. I'm excited. So that's that when

723
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: we find want to find a way to do it,

724
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: we'll find a way to do it, you know. And

725
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: I think that it's understandable that we put things on hold,

726
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to be judgmental, but I've said

727
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: this a few times, so I don't want to be

728
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: too repetitive, but it's true. So a friend of mine

729
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: who's been on the show, his name's Joel Sardi. He

730
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: was in the Australian Army soldier, served overseas frontline. All

731
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: of that came back to Australia. He was out at

732
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: I think it was an event, a party or something

733
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: fell down some stairs. Became a quadriplegic.

734
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

735
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: Right, So he instantly became a quadriplegic. So he couldn't

736
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: So from that moment that was his life. It's not

737
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: say he's not improving or he's not you know, but

738
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: he couldn't go I don't want to do quadriplegia now,

739
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: I'll do it in six months. I'm busy now, Like

740
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: there are things that happen in our life where we

741
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: do not have the option of not doing it now. Yeah,

742
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: we just have to do it now because there is

743
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: no option. But the problem is when we go I

744
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: want to get in shape, but here are my fifteen reasons. Well,

745
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: you can do it, but it's almost like we.

746
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: Have to create the conditions for this urgency right, but

747
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: it does. That's non negotiable.

748
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: That's the problem. That's the problem. We want, we kind

749
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: of want to do it. But imagine if you didn't

750
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: have an option. It's like imagine if oh, you had

751
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: to walk those steps three times a day for five minutes,

752
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: there is no option. Well, we would just do it.

753
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: We'd probably bitch and Moana not like it, and that's okay,

754
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: so would I probably, I'm not judging, but yeah. But

755
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: the thing is when we have that internal shift of

756
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: this is a thing that I need to do, not

757
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: a thing that I'll do when all the planets are

758
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: aligned and the kids are here and I'm there and

759
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: you know, then we go, oh, I'm just doing it,

760
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: and now I'm doing it. And then within a few months,

761
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: like with this lady, this is now a thing that

762
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: I enjoy. This has now become part of my lifestyle.

763
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: This is now intertwined with my subconscious. This is just

764
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: what I do. This is not me being amazing, This

765
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: is me being normal. So the idea, and I mean

766
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: you're very well versed in this, but the idea of

767
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: trying to manage your mind, fuck how hard is that?

768
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 2: It is? On a daily basis, all day, every day.

769
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: It is that it's almost like that self leadership, right,

770
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: trying to manage your mind, trying to know when you

771
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: need more compassion for yourself, trying to know when you

772
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: need more accountability for yourself. And you know that in

773
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: a talk, isn't being really critical? Like all of these

774
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: things are coming through while we're experiencing life. And I

775
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: think that that's again one of the most important things,

776
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: because we're the ones making decisions and choices in our

777
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: days right every day. Yes, and so many people say

778
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: I need to make all these changes, but like I'm

779
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 2: on a wait list for therapy. Once I get into therapy,

780
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 2: it's going to be better. And it's like, well, that's

781
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: one session a week. You're still with yourself for the

782
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: rest of the time, and you're still having to make

783
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: decisions right for what's it would be good for you.

784
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: These are things that we should be doing every day,

785
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: looking at how we're spending our time, looking at what

786
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: we're putting in our bodies, in our minds, all of

787
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: those things. So that's what really impacts them into health,

788
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: not as a therapist.

789
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: And to be aware of our to try to be

790
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: aware or at least open to how our mind works

791
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: meant a cognition to think about how we think and

792
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: why we think the way that we do. And that's

793
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: the way that I think work? Or is it more

794
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: do I self sabotage? Do I get in my own way?

795
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: Are my beliefs which are the contents of my mind?

796
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: Are my beliefs a form of self limitation or self empowerment?

797
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Why do I believe this thing? Did I choose this thing?

798
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: Or is this belief a byproduct of who I've been around?

799
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: What I call social osmosis. I just believe this because

800
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: everyone I've been around believes it, or my mum and

801
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: dad believe it. So now it's mine. I guess what? Yes, yeah,

802
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: But that thing that you believe might actually be the

803
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: problem also might not be true, and it might not

804
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: be something that you actually want in your life.

805
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: Now you might have you just inherited it from the

806
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: previous generational society, but deep down you actually don't believe

807
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: in that. Like you believe it right, because it's a

808
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: deepault belief. But looking at your values now, you're like,

809
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: that doesn't really align. This belief is not saving me.

810
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 2: This belief I'm saying about myself, I don't really feel

811
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: that way about others or something. So yeah, I think

812
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: it's really important we look at it again the childhood, right,

813
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: those first what seven years, and how that really influences

814
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: the rest of our lives and how we parent, how

815
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: we lead others, how we lead ourselves, how we see

816
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: ourselves get so important.

817
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: And I think being able to courageously do a deep

818
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: dive into some of your psychological and even behavioral responses

819
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: that you're not proud of, like sometimes for me, like

820
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: often for me, it's ego and insecure. Whereas I do

821
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: it less, I think, But I used to do it

822
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: a lot because I was so because I thought so

823
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: little of myself and I thought everyone else thought so

824
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: little of me that I subconsciously must have felt a

825
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: need to impress them. And so that go I did X,

826
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: and I go, that's great, I did two X. I mean,

827
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that bad and obvious, but that's essentially

828
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: what I was doing right Whereas now I'm much more

829
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: interested in how they feel than how I feel in

830
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: the moment, and being able to in real time have

831
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: an awareness of what I'm about to say. Where is

832
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: that coming from? Though? Don't say that that is not

833
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: about that is all about you and your bullshit. I

834
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: have a little exact go on sor I was.

835
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: Going to say, I feel like that's an example if

836
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: you just been I mean, you've larned this ability to

837
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: be self reflective and getting to know yourself and granting

838
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: yourself and that's why you can be pressed with someone else. Yeah,

839
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 2: people that need to know yourself is how you know others.

840
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: Yes. And it's like when I have a chat like

841
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: this with you, I mean I've gotten to know you today.

842
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: We had maybe twenty minutes before we rolled, but so whatever,

843
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: that adds up to an hour and a bit, Like

844
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: I know more about you now as a result of

845
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: this hour, I think than I do through probably the

846
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: last ten episodes. Not that they were disingenuous, but that

847
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: was just let's talk about this. I'll see you next time, right.

848
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: Being able to do that, I think also you as

849
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: an educator or a speaker or whatever, being able to

850
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: teach people the theory or the ideas or the science

851
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: is great. But also when they see that you are

852
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: also Sam the mum, Sam the daughter, Sam, the person

853
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: that has peaks and troughs and good days and bad days,

854
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: makes it much more real and relatable, accessible than this

855
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: genius who seems to float above us, right it doesn't,

856
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: and teaches us normal humans you know, how to like

857
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: it's just bullshit, you know, it really is.

858
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: And that's definitely something I feel passionate about in being

859
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: able to really talk about this ongoing journey of knowing

860
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: ourselves and breaking through our barriers and we've all got them.

861
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 2: And I hope that I continue to spend the rest

862
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: of my life doing this right where I'm in this

863
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 2: state of learning, constantly being a student of life, learning

864
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 2: about myself and unlocking new levels and releasing those beliefs

865
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 2: that don't save me gaining new ones. And yeah, that's

866
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: really the journey, isn't it.

867
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: And I think also, like on top of that, you know,

868
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: that idea of trying to understand how others think, not

869
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: so that you agree or align with them or endorse

870
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: their ideas or their behaviors, but just to understand, you know,

871
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: that's old chestnut that gets wheeled out too much. Seek

872
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: first to understand, right, And when I'm working with someone

873
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: who's nothing like me, which is quite often not better

874
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: or worse, just real different, I'm so interested in trying

875
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: to figure out what's going on in their mind, or

876
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: at least having some insight so that I can connect,

877
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: because if I can't understand how they think, then all

878
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: the shit I'm saying is just a.

879
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: Guess yeah, and you're right. And this is why I

880
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 2: think sometimes when I look back at these periods of

881
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: life where I'm like, this is the worst. This is

882
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: such a horrible thing that I'm going through, andever I

883
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: know would go through that, or even going through school

884
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: and trying to study, and this is so hard, and

885
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 2: why does this have to be so hard? It is

886
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 2: those experiences that actually help me have empathy for others,

887
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 2: because even though this situation may look different from mine

888
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: on the beds eye view, going deeper, it's like, ooh,

889
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: I remember a time where I also did feel in

890
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 2: control of my life, or I remember a time where

891
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 2: things didn't go to plan, and you can empathize with that.

892
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: So I feel like this lived experience is so important

893
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: for us to actually have the empathy for others. And

894
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: you can't read about that in a book and you

895
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: can't experience it. If you're trying to be perfect, do

896
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 2: you actually have to constantly put yourself in new situations

897
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 2: and start to chip away at you know, things that

898
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: are holding you back in order to almost like I

899
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: wouldn't say crash, but actually you know, like you said,

900
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: sit with a discomfort, go through hard stuff, show up

901
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 2: when you don't want to. All of these things, I

902
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: feel like is what actually helps build that empathy for others.

903
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: And I think being able to change the way that

904
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: we see others or the world or ourselves, or being

905
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: able to really kind of manage our mind, which I

906
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: think is it's not close to impossible, but it's tricky.

907
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: It definitely manages me sometimes and I manage it sometimes,

908
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: but you know, being able to just be open to

909
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: whatever it is that is going on without trying to

910
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: label yourself one way or the other, good or bad.

911
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: And then others the same, where like, how do we

912
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: build real connection with people? Well, there's got to be trust,

913
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: and there's got to be understanding, and there's got to

914
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: be a real desire to want to connect with people.

915
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: And it's work. Like there have been many times where

916
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: I've sat to coach someone and five minutes in, I

917
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: am not even there. I mean, I'm doing it on

918
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 1: altipilot because I can do it. But that's just skill.

919
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: But I'm not actually fully present, and I have to

920
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: pull myself up. You have to go what are you doing?

921
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: Like you're not even like this hour isn't about you, Craig,

922
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: it's not about you, It's about them. You're not even

923
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: really there, you know. And then that that kind of

924
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: stuff where you're not beating yourself up, but you're just

925
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: acknowledging what is. And I think it's the you know, like,

926
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: I don't think we can think our way into different thinking.

927
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: I think we've got to do our into different thinking.

928
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: I think it's in the action and the behavior and

929
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: the decisions and the what we do that changes that

930
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: kind of cerebral and psychological, cognitive, whatever landscape.

931
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 2: I really agree with that. I think it's the experiences

932
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 2: that make it up. And I feel like those with

933
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 2: the most wisdom are the ones that have actually had

934
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: such a ranging experience in life. It's not the people

935
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: that have, you know, just kind of been there, not

936
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: you know, being too sched to engage with it.

937
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: It.

938
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 2: So people that have been courageous with their lives really

939
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 2: to kind of in the arena and being like, yep,

940
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 2: I'm here trying something new. I am here, and I

941
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: am willing to kind of yeh, to grow in public basically.

942
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's definitely the experiences that change us.

943
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: It's always good chatting to you. I like that chat.

944
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit self indulgent because I actually

945
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: there might be no listeners still listening, but I love that.

946
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: I love to hear how you think. I love to

947
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: hear how you do life. I love to hear how

948
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: you work on you. You know. The one thing about personal

949
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: development and self help, it seems to me that sometimes

950
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: the focus of self help in a commercial sense is

951
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: about changing everything around us. You know, more money, more

952
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: this different job. But you know, ticket and boxes and

953
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: all of that's good and part of life. But I

954
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: think the real challenge of personal growth is to change me.

955
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, It's about changing me, not so much changing

956
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: everything around me. Definitely.

957
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: And I feel like in this in this era, we

958
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: are so quick to then judge others with this new

959
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 2: self awareness knowledge, and you know, I see people right

960
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: labeling their ex partners and it's just because they've got

961
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: this diagnosis or they're just whatever, and it's like, well,

962
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: hang on, the real work is why why was I

963
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: attracted to that at one point in my life? Why

964
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: do I think that that was okay to be treated

965
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 2: like that? Why did I like that's the real growth

966
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: and us going I can't actually change anyone else outside me,

967
00:50:58,239 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: So how where is that for me?

968
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: And also maybe I don't want to get in trouble,

969
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: but also maybe what you think about your partner him

970
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: or her, or your sister or your brother or your

971
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: maybe that is true, But is there a chance that

972
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,439
Speaker 1: you're a bit wrong? I'm talking about have I ever

973
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: been wrong? Every day ten times a day my whole life?

974
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: So that thing that I really think, could it be wrong?

975
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: And the next thing is what is the point of

976
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: getting into a public foring forum and essentially just bitching

977
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: about another human being? Like why are you doing that?

978
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: Like what is your Maybe it's a good reason. I

979
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not saying don't ever do it. I'm

980
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: just curious about that practice of going. I'm going to

981
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: write to the world, mostly people that don't know me,

982
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: but these people that read my stuff, and I'm just

983
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: gonna I'm just gonna just share all this stuff about

984
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: this person, and I don't know. Even with that, I'm like,

985
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: maybe don't know, but I think, is that a good

986
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: use of my time and energy? Could I use that

987
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: time and energy on something that's better for me?

988
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: Exactly? And it's yourself, right life? And how are you

989
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: living that out with your values and being in aligned with that?

990
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And we're not excusing anyone's behavior and we're

991
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: we're not doing that. But it's like, growing up, I

992
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: got bullied a thousand times. It's like I never talk

993
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: about myself as having been a bullied kid because I

994
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: was just a fat kid, and fat kids back then

995
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: got bullied all the time, right, But most of my memories,

996
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: most about my childhood are somewhere between okay and really

997
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: fucking good because I also had lots of fun. I

998
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: also had great mates. I also most of my experiences.

999
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,959
Speaker 1: I grew up in the country. The country's fucking great,

1000
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: you know, So I don't live in that. I recognize that.

1001
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: I don't put my head in the sand, and I

1002
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: don't pretend bad things don't happen to good people. Of

1003
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: course they do. But it's like, but here I am

1004
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: now today as we're recording, you know, February twenty seven,

1005
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: three seventeen. Here in twelve seventeen where you are, and

1006
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: I go, all right, well, now in this moment, what's

1007
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: the best use of my energy in time? Now, it's

1008
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: probably not right. And about that thing that happened to

1009
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: me when I was eight.

1010
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess you're working on what you need now, right,

1011
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: which is like you're building confidence and the stuff you're doing,

1012
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 2: the things that you know right are going to make

1013
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 2: you feel good about yourself. I feel like that's the importance.

1014
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: It's not to go back for the sake of going back.

1015
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 2: It's going back and filling in the gaps, which you're doing.

1016
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's good.

1017
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: Where can people find you, Sam.

1018
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 2: On my website which is www dot doctor Samcacy dot

1019
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: com or on Instagram at doctor Samcsey.

1020
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: Well, I hope your presentation goes well next week.

1021
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1022
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: I told you give me a buzz in between now

1023
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: and then if you want a little chatty mcchapster about it.

1024
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: But we'll say goodbye a fair but thank you for

1025
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: today and good luck with you gig next week. I'm

1026
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: sure you'll smash it. If you don't smash it, you'll

1027
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: do pretty good and you'll learn a few things right.

1028
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 2: Thanks trying either way I'm winning right absolutely