Speaker 1: I'll get our you, bloody champions, Welcome to another installing
Speaker 1: the you project. It's me, It's fucking Harps. It's Tiff.
Speaker 1: There we are. Four seconds in there's a swear word.
Speaker 1: A few people are jumping out. Hi, Tim high Harps. Now,
Speaker 1: who do you reckons more of a chance of getting
Speaker 1: a cuddle? Me or you?
Speaker 2: From our great game?
Speaker 3: It breaks my heart.
Speaker 1: It's me.
Speaker 3: I think it's you.
Speaker 1: I reckon. It's both of us. It's both of us,
Speaker 1: and I think both of us would like a hug.
Speaker 1: It's a pity. It's geographically impossible at the moment. Oh
Speaker 1: look he's blushing, mate, how are you going?
Speaker 2: Well, look I'm a cuddler, so I don't shake hand.
Speaker 4: I'll take your hand, but I'll give you both a
Speaker 4: cuddle regardless of orientation.
Speaker 2: So there you go.
Speaker 1: Were fan fantastic, fantastic. I am one of my mates.
Speaker 1: Was in the gym last night sitting on the upright
Speaker 1: vertical bench and he was doing shoulder press and he
Speaker 1: had reasonably heavyweights. And I walked in and I sat
Speaker 1: on I straddled him like fucking koala on a tree.
Speaker 1: There it is to.
Speaker 4: Showing a photo of this. That's amazing. Who was there
Speaker 4: taking the photo?
Speaker 1: Mate? So I straddled him like a koala on a
Speaker 1: tree and it was fun. You know, I need everyone
Speaker 1: needs a bit of love, mate.
Speaker 2: Physical touch, the love language, mate, we need it.
Speaker 1: What is your speaking of that book? Like you've obviously
Speaker 1: read that book or you're at least you're familiar with
Speaker 1: the love languages.
Speaker 4: I used to teach it to the new Commando officers
Speaker 4: after they passed the Commando selection course and.
Speaker 2: Pass over all the scripture.
Speaker 4: But replace the word love with motivational value, and it's
Speaker 4: a way to sort of tap into some extra emotional intelligence,
Speaker 4: particularly the special force of the world of needing to
Speaker 4: win over and influence people.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So let's just let's just I didn't well,
Speaker 1: actually didn't have a plan. As you know, I never
Speaker 1: have a p It's good, here we go, So let's
Speaker 1: just go through them. So quality time is one physical touch,
Speaker 1: words of affirmation.
Speaker 2: Give receiving gibs an act of service?
Speaker 1: Yeah, acts of service. So let's start with you, boxer,
Speaker 1: you fucking pugilist in the top left corner on my screen.
Speaker 1: What what do you reckon? Your love language is? Actually?
Speaker 1: Can I tell you what I think.
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I reckon yours.
Speaker 1: Yours is from me, from me. What is love for me?
Speaker 1: For you is words of affirmation.
Speaker 3: That is correct.
Speaker 2: How you receive love is words of affirmation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from me.
Speaker 2: She gives us.
Speaker 1: Because I'm her mentor she wants, which everyone does. I'm
Speaker 1: the same. She wants a people and a verbal hug
Speaker 1: love a verbal she doesn't like. She doesn't like an
Speaker 1: actual hug. She's you haven't heard me say this, but
Speaker 1: she constantly when she's in the well anywhere. Really, she
Speaker 1: wears a baseball cap with give us a hug and
Speaker 1: a te a T shirt says, but fuck off.
Speaker 3: Though that was Tim two point oh, this is Tiff
Speaker 3: three point oh. And he's an interesting fact. If I
Speaker 3: if my love language is actually reflective of me and
Speaker 3: my animals, it's definitely physical touch, maybe just because there's two.
Speaker 4: Remember there's too, so the way you feel love and
Speaker 4: then the way you show love the two different love languages.
Speaker 1: Usually Yeah, but you like being loved by animals because
Speaker 1: they're not going to fucking break your heart and lie
Speaker 1: to you and bullshit you, right, I mean that's the
Speaker 1: same with everyone. That's everyone.
Speaker 2: They're authentic they're actually authentic.
Speaker 4: There's no ulterium motive except for maybe some food and
Speaker 4: some hugs.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, did you get.
Speaker 1: That thing on? I didn't send it to you. I
Speaker 1: should send it to both of you. It's just this
Speaker 1: dude talking about how horses communicate. This is irrelevant. Who
Speaker 1: knows where we're going on this show, But like this
Speaker 1: guy who's a genuine horse whisperer and he's talking about how,
Speaker 1: you know, basically humans are predators and horses in the
Speaker 1: wild are prey and so they you know, apart from
Speaker 1: the fact that they don't speak human, we don't speak horse,
Speaker 1: and so it takes them along like their love part
Speaker 1: of their love languages being trust is being able to
Speaker 1: trust humans and it takes them a long time. And yeah,
Speaker 1: interesting love.
Speaker 2: It was something in there.
Speaker 4: I mean, we do a lot of equine therapy in
Speaker 4: the veteran community to help people with trauma and stuff,
Speaker 4: and it's you know, that trust and that connection.
Speaker 2: I think that is the core part that really shines through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot, like a lot of people
Speaker 1: say that that once you have a connection with a horse,
Speaker 1: it's almost supernatural. There's something special going on. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think horses are smarter than we think.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's also a respect piece there, because
Speaker 4: like a horse would actually kick the shit out of you,
Speaker 4: you know, it's actually yeah, there's not. You don't have
Speaker 4: this physical superiority to them as we do most animals,
Speaker 4: especially in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what about your love language? TIF Like, what
Speaker 1: do you what do you get from like your mum
Speaker 1: and your dad? What is it?
Speaker 3: I reckon my mom? Is I reckon gifts? She likes
Speaker 3: she likes giving gifts? What's that called?
Speaker 1: What do you want from? What do you want?
Speaker 2: Just the same? Words of affirmation is usually a thing? Yeah?
Speaker 2: What about how do you show love to them? How
Speaker 2: do you like showing love to people?
Speaker 3: Don't mate, punch in the face.
Speaker 4: Come on, Like what makes you feel good? Do you
Speaker 4: like doing things for people?
Speaker 3: Do things for people?
Speaker 2: Acts of service? I thought you might like.
Speaker 3: Giving gifts, but I get a bit stressed about giving
Speaker 3: the right gift. So I hate Christmas. I hate buying
Speaker 3: gifts because I want the gift to be specially and
Speaker 3: always feel stressed about it.
Speaker 1: I reckon that acts of services you like towards me?
Speaker 1: Because like sometimes like we might do something like this, mate,
Speaker 1: where we have a chat and then and now a
Speaker 1: later Tif will send me a reel that she's made
Speaker 1: of this, which is really good that she didn't have
Speaker 1: to do. It's not she doesn't.
Speaker 2: Have a pick.
Speaker 4: I definitely pick Tiff. As an access service I'm the same.
Speaker 4: I'm an access service person. I like to feel value
Speaker 4: by doing things for people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have this innate thing to protect people that
Speaker 1: I love. I don't know, I think maybe that falls
Speaker 1: into acts of service, Like I'm very almost like stupidly
Speaker 1: territorial about people I love.
Speaker 4: No, I'm the same. It's a protecting instinct. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you've had a quiet So you've had a
Speaker 1: quiet year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been quite interesting the last
Speaker 2: twelve months. Almost not much on, not much on.
Speaker 4: Ah, honestly, it's you know, there's been there's been sprints,
Speaker 4: but there's been a lot of bliant time as well.
Speaker 2: Been it's been an interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought twenty twenty was really.
Speaker 4: Going to be my year, and instead it's been one
Speaker 4: of the biggest learning curve of the year that I've
Speaker 4: ever had a long in time.
Speaker 2: To be honest, what have you learned?
Speaker 4: Well, so my court case against the ABC finished October
Speaker 4: last year, and I won. You know, they were found
Speaker 4: the ABC and two of their journalists were personally found
Speaker 4: guilty of defamation. And you know, I want to pay out,
Speaker 4: and they did it so badly. They had to pay
Speaker 4: for all of my legal costs. It costs millions and
Speaker 4: millions of dollars attacks Player fund. But I sort of
Speaker 4: just then expected the everything else to flow through.
Speaker 2: I just expected.
Speaker 4: What was the original thing I asked for where I
Speaker 4: took them to court was an apology for my soldiers,
Speaker 4: for our families, and for me and my families. And
Speaker 4: getting an apology has literally been the bridge too far
Speaker 4: for them.
Speaker 2: I had to then, you know, I had a few
Speaker 2: ages up my sleeve.
Speaker 4: They published this story, they added gunshots to this combat footage,
Speaker 4: they changed it, they added circles, They did all these
Speaker 4: incredible things that I didn't think I'd have to then
Speaker 4: pull out of the back as well as take them
Speaker 4: to the federal court.
Speaker 2: But I did a whole documentary with Channel seven Spotlight
Speaker 2: revealed it all.
Speaker 4: And all that's happened is for the next six months
Speaker 4: has been just as what I say is the biggest
Speaker 4: campaign of gas lighting and ask covering I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: And again, even when they had to fess up and say, yes,
Speaker 4: we did edit the footage, they literally issued an apology
Speaker 4: to all the members of the Second Commander Regiment, which
Speaker 4: I love, but refused to issue any personal apology to
Speaker 4: Heston Russell. It's a classic media play, you know, don't
Speaker 4: give someone an attention by actually saying their name. And
Speaker 4: I get it if you know, we were enemies, if
Speaker 4: it was someone a company that had money to be made,
Speaker 4: But it's our ABC, it's the ABC IU tip everyone.
Speaker 2: We literally pay our taxes to boards. So I've really
Speaker 2: gone through this bracter in well. I went through this
Speaker 2: period where I was like.
Speaker 4: All of these morals and values and standards that I
Speaker 4: was brought up with and trained in the military, are
Speaker 4: they really just only relevant for the military? Am I
Speaker 4: actually completely out of place in regular society? Is my
Speaker 4: mindset going to life after service completely dysfunctional? Am I
Speaker 4: just shitting myself on the foot by having these expectations of,
Speaker 4: you know, people simply being good, people having integrity, being honest.
Speaker 4: But then sort of the pendulum has shifted back because
Speaker 4: I'm stopped on the streets by just lovely people every day,
Speaker 4: police officer day having a coffee just saying hey, you
Speaker 4: know I saw your okay, so listen to podcasts this.
Speaker 2: I want you to know like you have our support.
Speaker 4: But for me and my mastery is leadership. You know,
Speaker 4: I was trained to be a Special Force as leader,
Speaker 4: to spend four years studying leadership before I was allowed to.
Speaker 2: Be in charge of anyone.
Speaker 4: And I've just really been disillusioned by the leadership of
Speaker 4: not a single person from Defense speaking out even when
Speaker 4: we proved the ABC added gunshots to footage. You know,
Speaker 4: not a single politician, you know, Albow stood next to
Speaker 4: me when we won the campaign for the Royal Commission
Speaker 4: when it was good for him and boats. You know,
Speaker 4: not a single person from the ABC willing to apologize
Speaker 4: to Heston Russell and his family. So, you know, I
Speaker 4: went through a period where, you know, I just went
Speaker 4: through a big depressive period to be honest, and I
Speaker 4: just wanted to get out of Australia. I went over
Speaker 4: to the US for a few months. I tried to
Speaker 4: build a new life there. I got a new boyfriend
Speaker 4: that all fell through in a very rapid weight as well.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's been a fascinating year. But I'm back,
Speaker 4: I'm energized, and I'm putting all my efforts and energy
Speaker 4: into my book that I'm looking to probably self publish
Speaker 4: in the next few months to be able to get
Speaker 4: this all out in detail. And perhaps he who has
Speaker 4: the last word, has the last laugh or something, how
Speaker 4: does that thing go?
Speaker 1: Who knows who has the last laugh wins or something?
Speaker 2: What are you think?
Speaker 1: I think? You know? It is really interesting because I
Speaker 1: find this culturally too, like where I call them cults
Speaker 1: of thought, mate, cults have thought, where people live in cognitive, emotional,
Speaker 1: political echo chambers.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, what the what the fuck is.
Speaker 1: Wrong with going? Hey? I fucked up or we fucked up?
Speaker 1: What is so hard about going? I used to think
Speaker 1: A and now I think B. But the truth is
Speaker 1: that people me included I get I probably fuck up
Speaker 1: three things an episode, and we've done seventeen hundred, so
Speaker 1: that's five thousand fuck ups conservatively. I'll probably say something
Speaker 1: stupid or incorrect, right, But I know that, and I
Speaker 1: own it and I acknowledge it, and I'm still flawed.
Speaker 1: But why why do you think the ABC can't just
Speaker 1: go Look, we got it wrong. We're real sorry, what
Speaker 1: is that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I'm with you, great, Like mistakes and failure
Speaker 4: are what we spent most of our time on in
Speaker 4: the military, learning the lessons learn and putting them into
Speaker 4: practice and not do it again, and you know, writing
Speaker 4: them down and being.
Speaker 2: Public with them, because that's where it growth.
Speaker 4: It's just come down to and even what the judge
Speaker 4: said at the end of my verdict, it's come down
Speaker 4: to this cultural war and come down to this attitude
Speaker 4: where the ABC adopts any criticism as a fence and
Speaker 4: vigorously attacks and defends their position as opposed to objectively
Speaker 4: being what they're supposed to be. Like we're having this
Speaker 4: conversation this last week, the new chair of the ABC,
Speaker 4: Kim Williams, stood up in front of the Press Council
Speaker 4: and took a swipe at Joe Rogan, you know, talking
Speaker 4: about misinformation disinformation like the biggest podcasts in the world,
Speaker 4: and then the journalists were asking him, you know, how
Speaker 4: can you make that comment up of your organization literally
Speaker 4: has been found to have you change footage, added gunshots.
Speaker 4: And the biggest issue to me, mate, has been that
Speaker 4: they appointed one of their own former executives to do
Speaker 4: this independent inquiry, which by even the term independent is
Speaker 4: not independent, you know, and they said that it was
Speaker 4: an error. Someone accidentally added extra gunshots into this footage.
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's.
Speaker 4: Insane and all that I'm learning. I've learned two things,
Speaker 4: you know. One camera is a bit and she slaps
Speaker 4: hard when she comes back around.
Speaker 2: Two and two.
Speaker 4: Like these people, literally, like you said, mate, in an
Speaker 4: echo chamber. This dude, Kim Williams, he stood up and said,
Speaker 4: you know, can't stand Joe Rogan. I don't listen to
Speaker 4: him at all, but then proceeded to tell everyone why
Speaker 4: Joe Rogan was so bad. You're the head of a
Speaker 4: media organization who just admitted that you haven't personally listened
Speaker 4: to or researched this guy, but you're able to make
Speaker 4: an opinion that you're going to tell the entire press
Speaker 4: councils ahead of our ABC. So these people are in
Speaker 4: their own echo chambers. They do think they're out of breach.
Speaker 4: They're this boudoir elite that just need a reality check,
Speaker 4: and I really do feel that is coming soon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like we need some kind of this
Speaker 1: is this is a reach, but almost like a spiritual
Speaker 1: revolution where people just go, you know what, you get
Speaker 1: stuff wrong, We get stuff wrong, you know, and they
Speaker 1: like specifically to Joe Rogan. There's not too many people
Speaker 1: in Australia who've heard more Joe Rogan than me. Right,
Speaker 1: he's my go to. I was listening to Joe Rogan
Speaker 1: before I started a show, and that was This has
Speaker 1: been around for seven years. I've probably listened to two
Speaker 1: thousand of his his twenty three hundred or so episodes
Speaker 1: and agree with everything sometimes, you know, when they're sitting
Speaker 1: on talking about dope endlessly or comedy that is, or
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, I don't agree with everything, but
Speaker 1: you cannot accuse him of not having diverse conversations with
Speaker 1: diverse and being relatively I love.
Speaker 4: It you hear some of the conversations hit there going like,
Speaker 4: you know, I never thought that way, I never agreed
Speaker 4: with that, but you provided me with a different perspective,
Speaker 4: like it's actually an open progressive conversation one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And even with you know, it's like he had Donald
Speaker 1: Trump on and people like, oh, of course, I had
Speaker 1: fucking Donald Trump and then he spoke about invite and
Speaker 1: by the way, everyone that's not political. This is just
Speaker 1: about then he offered Kamala to come on, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you can interview her, not in your studio, not for
Speaker 1: three hours. You have to come to us. You have
Speaker 1: to be in this environment and here's a list of
Speaker 1: thirty five things you can't talk about, and it's going
Speaker 1: to be sixty minutes, and so it was all going
Speaker 1: to be orchestrated. He's like nah, and then people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: why didn't you get the other side. It's like, I
Speaker 1: offered her to come in, but there were so many
Speaker 1: stipulations and rules that it wouldn't have been an organic conversation,
Speaker 1: which is what he does.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm with her.
Speaker 4: I was just I was literally over in the US
Speaker 4: for Halloween, the election and my birthday was a very
Speaker 4: very unique time. And I live in a blue from
Speaker 4: when I have all my friends in blue states over there,
Speaker 4: and it was really a fascinating time. But yeah, mate,
Speaker 4: for yeah, the head of the ABC that we all
Speaker 4: pay for, that's meant to be an unbiased, mutual organization
Speaker 4: to even stand up and take a swipe at the
Speaker 4: biggest podcast in the world, like, how is that smart?
Speaker 2: How does that reflect on Australia. How does that pditively
Speaker 2: impact his job?
Speaker 4: Like it's just for me, it's just insane, Like this
Speaker 4: guy is just up in the clouds anyway, And then
Speaker 4: that helps me really understand why the organization is doing
Speaker 4: what it's doing, you know, because you know, leadership and
Speaker 4: culture all starts from the top and close through.
Speaker 1: Well, it's like me or you standing up talking about fuck,
Speaker 1: I don't know about fucking neurosurgery and going you know what,
Speaker 1: I think, Well, we don't fuck because you're not a
Speaker 1: neurosurgeon and you've never done an operation, Craig, and you're
Speaker 1: a dumbass. Like if you, like, if he'd been away
Speaker 1: and listened to one hundred episodes or even ten episodes
Speaker 1: of Rogan all the way through, you know, then maybe,
Speaker 1: but as he said, he's never listened. Like, dude, you're commenting,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people say that to me. I
Speaker 1: don't need to listen to him. I'm like, how the
Speaker 1: fuck you have an opinion about someone you've never met?
Speaker 1: In inverted comments, I love it.
Speaker 2: My favorite these days at Denzil Washington.
Speaker 4: What's he saying if you listen or read to the media,
Speaker 4: if you don't listen or read to the media, you're
Speaker 4: not informed.
Speaker 2: If you do listen or read or listen to them,
Speaker 2: you're misinformed or unimportant. I don't know.
Speaker 4: He's fantastic, but yeah, we're getting away from what is
Speaker 4: meant to be their core role and function. And what
Speaker 4: I love in this diversity of free speech world Western
Speaker 4: world is you know, just like Joe Rogan, you don't
Speaker 4: like all these episodes, but it's there to provide that variety,
Speaker 4: and you can tune in, your tune out, and there's
Speaker 4: nothing to stop you from going and fact checking yourself.
Speaker 4: Like even this government Disinformation and Misinformation Bill which got
Speaker 4: defeated thankfully, you know, they excluded the ABC and others
Speaker 4: from it, and so many of my friends even in
Speaker 4: the current parliament, the current sentiment are just like Senate,
Speaker 4: you've literally just had the tax payer under ABC be
Speaker 4: found to have done what is by default misinformation and
Speaker 4: you're going to exclude them from this.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: What I've again taken faith from is that government might
Speaker 4: keep thinking that they can.
Speaker 2: Provide the parental solutions to the people.
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, more and more people
Speaker 4: are just being more and more free thinking, you know,
Speaker 4: and even this bill about banning teenagers from social media,
Speaker 4: you know, bros and coins. But at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, I just have a blatant issue with people
Speaker 4: in Parliament thinking that they are better parents, that they're
Speaker 4: better at on both the nutrition, they better advisers on
Speaker 4: how we should live our lives as opposed to what
Speaker 4: their core function is meant to be. And that's like
Speaker 4: progressing our country and making our standard of life better
Speaker 4: and easier and more enjoyable and all the rest. I mean,
Speaker 4: you just have to watch them and see the edicts
Speaker 4: carry on with its school yard school yard bullshit.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Well, no, no, it's all mate. There's no digression
Speaker 1: because there's no plan. There's no fucking direction on this show.
Speaker 1: It's the it's the verbal version of a dog with
Speaker 1: three dicks this show. So we're okay with that. It's
Speaker 1: the conversational the conversational dog with three dicks. Speaking of
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. I was watching you, you know,
Speaker 1: I watched the Spotlight show doc and but you know,
Speaker 1: I've been watching you mate, amazing, and I try not to.
Speaker 1: I think I sent you a few things, but I
Speaker 1: try not to because I know you're going to be
Speaker 1: and undated with shit.
Speaker 2: But what I appreciated, mate, I get to everything. I
Speaker 2: get to everything, I really do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Actually what I wanted was like, you're clearly very
Speaker 5: resilient and you clearly have got you know, because of
Speaker 5: your training, and I would think of personality and your nature.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got really good skills to be able
Speaker 1: to deal with shit, you know, as any soldier needs
Speaker 1: to be able to deal with discomfort and pain and
Speaker 1: uncertainty and all those things that human beings don't like,
Speaker 1: the unknown, the uncertain, the unfamiliar, and the uncomfortable. That's
Speaker 1: where you live as a soldier. But this is a
Speaker 1: different type of pain, isn't it going through like public
Speaker 1: scrutiny where people are publicly saying, essentially, you're a piece
Speaker 1: of shit who did all these bad things and it's
Speaker 1: absolutely untrue, but you can't, you know, like and of
Speaker 1: course you've been vindicated and it's all bullshit and they
Speaker 1: fuck up and they were dishonest. We get, but there
Speaker 1: was a period of time where people didn't know that, right,
Speaker 1: people like that.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's a great observation.
Speaker 2: I love to dive into this because you know.
Speaker 4: My whole psychology sociology came from being a pretty unpopular
Speaker 4: fact kid at school to being very successful in the military.
Speaker 4: But in particular, what I was able to achieve during
Speaker 4: my time throughout my military career was to be very
Speaker 4: good at my job and very liked by everyone as well.
Speaker 2: Like I always put in the work to be good
Speaker 2: at my job and a good person.
Speaker 4: That's the quote and ethought that my sort of dad
Speaker 4: gave me from his time in the military. And even
Speaker 4: when we talk about and lecture about and teach leadership,
Speaker 4: where you often separate leadership from likability to people focused on.
Speaker 2: Being liked and impact their job.
Speaker 4: But I was always able to be both because I
Speaker 4: always maintained a lie. My guys even said, there's hesto
Speaker 4: and there's hest and like you know, I was able
Speaker 4: to really put in those boundaries. And throughout my entire
Speaker 4: career in special courses, no one knew what you did
Speaker 4: in your outside life. You didn't have social media, your
Speaker 4: family on knew bits and pieces, but you had all
Speaker 4: of the maslows hierarchicive needs, plus all of your love
Speaker 4: languages catered for by the incredible team that you deployed
Speaker 4: five times to the Middle East and would literally die
Speaker 4: for because you knew that's what was required, and you
Speaker 4: love them like you know brothers and sisters. And my
Speaker 4: love language is my love language. The way I received
Speaker 4: love had always been acts of service, had always been
Speaker 4: sorry equality time, because I love to do things for people,
Speaker 4: simply being able to be around people and not feel
Speaker 4: like I have to do things for them, and have
Speaker 4: people who just wanted.
Speaker 2: To hang around with me be with me.
Speaker 4: You know, I never was alone once in my career,
Speaker 4: and then particularly through the last two years, my love language,
Speaker 4: the way in which I need to feel love is
Speaker 4: literally changed to words of affirmation because I.
Speaker 2: Have had my.
Speaker 4: Identity broken down and learned in front of me by
Speaker 4: those with the means to do so, and being unable
Speaker 4: to do so myself.
Speaker 2: And I've had more people.
Speaker 4: Particularly in the gay community here in Sydney wherever, more
Speaker 4: people come out with hatred towards me online and whatnot
Speaker 4: who've never actually met me, and that affected me so
Speaker 4: much because I'd never been so accustomed to people not
Speaker 4: liking me. Because I genuinely do everything with the right reasons,
Speaker 4: for the right reasons and responsibly in my opinion, and
Speaker 4: I put myself last in the order of a lot
Speaker 4: of things that I do. So I then had to
Speaker 4: go through this period, particularly at the end of the
Speaker 4: court case, you know, when I was able to prove
Speaker 4: that I was right the whole time in reassessing what
Speaker 4: was value to me, decluttering my life from all the
Speaker 4: people who left when the times were bad, and not
Speaker 4: only allowing a handful back in when the times were good,
Speaker 4: you know, and yeah, and really understanding more and more
Speaker 4: about myself. And it's been a really interesting rebuilding phase
Speaker 4: from that. But end of the day, and now I'm
Speaker 4: at a point where I just appreciate you're never going
Speaker 4: to please everyone, do things for the right reasons, and
Speaker 4: stop caring so much what people think. And this is
Speaker 4: the one thing I say to people when they say, oh,
Speaker 4: so and so said something about you, I'm like, as
Speaker 4: have they ever met me?
Speaker 2: No? Then, like, I don't give a shit.
Speaker 4: If I've generally done something or had a mistake, that's great,
Speaker 4: Give me a call, give me a text, you know,
Speaker 4: shoot me a DM. Otherwise I do not care about
Speaker 4: your opinion.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting how much people that don't know us
Speaker 1: or love us, you know, it can affect us. And
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I think I'm a fair bit better
Speaker 1: than I used to be. But I might get a
Speaker 1: hundred comments on something that are good and one that
Speaker 1: goes you or I can't. I'm like, that's all I
Speaker 1: pay attention to. And I'm like, I can't sleep because
Speaker 1: some of.
Speaker 2: I love heart. I put a love heart on it.
Speaker 2: Now I just put a love heart on it. You know.
Speaker 1: I did a few months ago. I did what I
Speaker 1: call a private workshop, which just means it's for twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five people, not a big workshop. So it was
Speaker 1: like half a day and anyway, it was probably five dudes, ladies,
Speaker 1: and so we spend about five hours together. We spend
Speaker 1: a bit of time together. We do a deep dive
Speaker 1: and everyone gets to talk and ask questions and it's good.
Speaker 1: You know, there's tears and snot and hugs and it's
Speaker 1: pretty good experience. And one of the ladies goes to me,
Speaker 1: just it was in the context of the conversation. She goes,
Speaker 1: my ex husband hates you. She's just like that hates you.
Speaker 1: I go, oh, goody, what's his name? And she tells me.
Speaker 1: I go, I don't, I go, do I know him?
Speaker 1: She goes, oh, no, you've never met. I go, right, so,
Speaker 1: have I had a chat with him? She's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you never know. But he hates you. I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: why does he hate me? He goes, She goes, because
Speaker 1: he thinks you broke up our marriage because I started
Speaker 1: listening to you.
Speaker 2: Right, wow, I mean that I've got layers on it.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: I'm like, so he was a prick and then you
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, that is hilarious, like she started
Speaker 1: standing up for her self, and and because she stood
Speaker 1: up for her self, and because she wouldn't be treated
Speaker 1: like a doormat and nothing to do with him, he
Speaker 1: wasn't fold at all. Like the person responsible for the
Speaker 1: demise of his marriage was the the blok who's got
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm like, how fucking stupid are you? And
Speaker 1: how self awareness do you not have?
Speaker 2: Mate? That's the key part. So when people say that
Speaker 2: to me, you know, so and so hates you, like cool?
Speaker 2: Have ever let me know?
Speaker 4: My response is I think, well, that's more of a
Speaker 4: reflection on them than it is me, because I would
Speaker 4: never make up an opinion on someone without meeting them.
Speaker 4: But what I've also learned is because I've definitely been
Speaker 4: in that place as well. People attack because they're either
Speaker 4: protecting or projecting something that's going on with them. You know,
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the energy we're putting
Speaker 4: out is coming from a place. So if someone's unhappy
Speaker 4: with me or angry with me, or do you know,
Speaker 4: go on Twitter, mate and see there are angry people
Speaker 4: on there.
Speaker 2: Like I now to sit back and go.
Speaker 4: Hey, there's something else going on behind the scenes here,
Speaker 4: and that's not my issue, that's their.
Speaker 2: You know, you want to look like an idiot putting
Speaker 2: these tweets.
Speaker 4: They'll come back and you know, haaunt you in five
Speaker 4: or ten years time, and you go for a job,
Speaker 4: go nuts.
Speaker 2: Especially after going through the court. Some of the best
Speaker 2: tweets came from.
Speaker 4: The ABC what's her brigger name of data dumped it
Speaker 4: because she's just a waste.
Speaker 2: She was the she was the head of the investigations.
Speaker 4: I can't remember her name, but anyway, she said, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: I never said this, I never said this, And then
Speaker 4: my lawyer just pulls out like her Twitter account and says, well,
Speaker 4: these sweets say you did, and she literally.
Speaker 2: With court lying in the stand it was okay.
Speaker 1: So when when she said I didn't say that, and
Speaker 1: then he produced evidence that she did say that. What
Speaker 1: did she do? Then?
Speaker 2: Yeah, my barrister's sucras ant, what is this?
Speaker 1: She was just a hearty.
Speaker 4: She was a terrible, terrible person. She was just every
Speaker 4: answer she had she was like spitting fire out of
Speaker 4: the you like you just to watch it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I was sitting in the back of the court and like,
Speaker 4: my barister that morning had run me through what she's
Speaker 4: going to do. And she's like, so, miss Puccini, Joanne Puccini,
Speaker 4: that's it. She's she's now the head of ABC's investigations.
Speaker 2: It incredible.
Speaker 4: She's like, so you never said that this article was
Speaker 4: linked to this one or was never talking about Heston Russell.
Speaker 2: And she's like, yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 4: She's like cool, Okay, here are your tweets that say
Speaker 4: Mark Willisy upheld Heston Russell.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: And you just watched her drop like three or four
Speaker 4: inches and exhale in the chair and it's just like gotchaw.
Speaker 2: My embarrasster too, just looks over her shoulder at me.
Speaker 2: It just gives me a week and I'm trying to
Speaker 2: maintain my composure.
Speaker 4: You know, people thinking that and this is embarrasses me.
Speaker 4: In the DAT She's like, the truth comes out. The
Speaker 4: one thing you'll learn about, you know, good lawyers and
Speaker 4: legal process is truth comes out. Yeah, and that was
Speaker 4: even incredible. Mate, Like this, I'm saying, this is all
Speaker 4: the stuff that's come out. The ABC head of in
Speaker 4: investigations unit was caught lying on the stand.
Speaker 2: But hey, you know, she's probably going to be promoted
Speaker 2: next week. Who cares.
Speaker 1: Hey, I want to talk to you about trust. Tell
Speaker 1: me about it. I'm just going to go trust. Just
Speaker 1: if on that for me before I ask a specific question.
Speaker 4: Griff On that my personal journey with trust has always
Speaker 4: been I trust people too far.
Speaker 2: I trust. I historically trust people first, and then you
Speaker 2: lose my trust.
Speaker 4: And again, when we spoke about this shift in the
Speaker 4: last year or so, people really no need to earn
Speaker 4: my trust because as soon as I trust.
Speaker 2: I think the two values for me that are very interlinked.
Speaker 4: I trust and loyalty, Like if I trust you, then
Speaker 4: you have my loyalty. And I think loyalty is probably
Speaker 4: my strongest value and skill set I'd bring to any
Speaker 4: sort of relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think I did it the other way around?
Speaker 1: I oh, okay, no, maybe I did know. Maybe I
Speaker 1: was yeah, yeah, we don't have to be the same, mate, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: But I did you ask me once if I if
Speaker 1: you trusted me, and I said not completely because it
Speaker 1: was early day, or you said you did know?
Speaker 3: You said you did, and I was like, right, But
Speaker 3: I've had trus.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I've I've had people that I've known
Speaker 1: for a while, like you know, and there's no tragedy
Speaker 1: here or no self pity. But like over the years,
Speaker 1: especially in my twenties and thirties, I trusted, like, not
Speaker 1: only trusted, loved some people, like would have pretty much
Speaker 1: walked over a fucking broken glass for them who did
Speaker 1: some horrible shit, right, none of it life threatening, but
Speaker 1: horrible nonetheless. And so for these like these days, I
Speaker 1: just takes me quite a while. Doesn't mean I distrust someone.
Speaker 1: It just means I don't trust them yet. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of almost on the fence because that, yeah,
Speaker 1: especially when you.
Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, that's important. That's an important
Speaker 2: back to there.
Speaker 4: Mate, Like you said, there's there's not trust and distrust,
Speaker 4: there's just this area in the middle where you just
Speaker 4: I'm sure, yes, a lot of people feel like you
Speaker 4: need to be you don't need to be hostile, you're
Speaker 4: just you know, not willing to put that food forward yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And there's people that I know quite well, you know,
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm known for a bit, and I still don't.
Speaker 1: Like I said, yeah, I don't distrust them.
Speaker 2: But there are.
Speaker 1: People that that I and I'm like, I'm a big
Speaker 1: baby too. If I fucking love someone, I loved them,
Speaker 1: and if they do something, I'm fucked. I'm like, oh fuck,
Speaker 1: because I mean, nobody needs fucking Batty Harps to tell
Speaker 1: them that loves a motherfucker.
Speaker 2: How are you when someone loses your trust? Like, are
Speaker 2: you done?
Speaker 1: Oh? If I don't trust them anymore?
Speaker 2: Yeah, distrust them. I'm like, I'm an elephant. I never
Speaker 2: forget never.
Speaker 1: No, I'm like, nah, so yeah, I mean it has
Speaker 1: to be significant. Like if they fucked up accidentally or incidentally,
Speaker 1: that's cool. But if they consciously did something, knowingly did
Speaker 1: something and chose that, and that's have to be pretty bad.
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, I'm but like, even with the people
Speaker 1: that have done shit to me over the time, I
Speaker 1: don't hate anyone like I don't. I pretty much like
Speaker 1: I hate things that people do, but I don't hate
Speaker 1: humans like I just don't. I don't give them any
Speaker 1: space in my head. You know, it's like, no, I
Speaker 1: don't hate that person. I just genuinely don't fucking think
Speaker 1: about them, like I don't, like they take up zero
Speaker 1: percent of my emotional energy or focus. You know. It's like.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire,
Speaker 6: that's all. Might just a sprinkle just then go sorry,
Speaker 6: it's all I've got. I'm sixty one. Well I've got.
Speaker 2: Did well? Love it?
Speaker 1: Fuck and thank you very much. Well what have you?
Speaker 1: What have you learned about you? Not what have you learned,
Speaker 1: but what have you learned you in the last year
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe more than a year, because it's been
Speaker 1: like you've been through, been through something that most people
Speaker 1: will never go through.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've learned that I'm where near as resilient as
Speaker 4: I used to be. And I really understood that that
Speaker 4: came from, you know, the times where I was in combat,
Speaker 4: the times where I was life or death, you know
Speaker 4: the whole career of life or death. I realized I
Speaker 4: had two proactive layers of resilience being the officer and
Speaker 4: being the leader. I had the mission and then I
Speaker 4: had my team, and my head and heart always had
Speaker 4: those two protective barriers where I was always forward thinking,
Speaker 4: forward feeling before I was ever inside my own heaven heart.
Speaker 4: And I've had to go through a lot of this
Speaker 4: with some great support from some very close friends and family,
Speaker 4: but it's really been a very lonely time, and particularly
Speaker 4: a lot of those people who you know, even my
Speaker 4: former military bosses and politicians, and you know, I had
Speaker 4: former prime ministers on my podcast when the time was good.
Speaker 2: You know, when I was in combat.
Speaker 4: In Afghanistan and if it looked like we were in trouble,
Speaker 4: I could jump on the radio and call in the
Speaker 4: finger of God, calling support called and the rest. And
Speaker 4: when I have picked up the phone to ask for support,
Speaker 4: from even trying to afford the legal costs through to
Speaker 4: achieving real accountability and help some one my soldiers along
Speaker 4: the way, you know, it's been silent and it's been
Speaker 4: a really lonely time. So I've appreciated that I am
Speaker 4: less resilient when I'm by myself, and how I really
Speaker 4: need to invest more in bloody lower keets, I need
Speaker 4: to invest more in the people I keep around me
Speaker 4: because midtaly, I definitely spent my time maintaining much more
Speaker 4: of a social friendship group and not a lot of
Speaker 4: people who could really be there for the hard times.
Speaker 4: And yeah, just it's helped me really reassess what are
Speaker 4: my values, you know, how I go and feel love
Speaker 4: and what I actually need to make sure I don't
Speaker 4: get bottom like I kind of did a couple of
Speaker 4: times this last few years as well.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a relationship or you might have
Speaker 1: had several where what you kind of wake up one
Speaker 1: day and you go, oh, this is a transactional thing.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, you know, where now I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not valuable to them anymore. So I don't hear
Speaker 1: from them. Oh that wasn't a friendship, that was some
Speaker 1: kind of strategic arrangement.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this has been look, I see my psychologists
Speaker 4: psychologists each week, and this has been a lot of
Speaker 4: the sort of decompartmentalizing unpacking that I've gone through.
Speaker 2: Is that particularly, you know.
Speaker 4: When I went from a place of not being able
Speaker 4: to make friends in school to having lots of friends
Speaker 4: in my military career and then once leaving that I've
Speaker 4: always been able to bring acts of service as my
Speaker 4: value into friendships, I end up on the one instigating
Speaker 4: a relationship where I feel like I need to do
Speaker 4: things for people to be transactional for people to maintain
Speaker 4: those connections, and I've been chasing instead of attracting. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it's really been even shifting that complete mindset and feeling
Speaker 4: relationships as opposed to thinking or planning about relationships.
Speaker 2: That's something that I'm still trying to work through myself.
Speaker 1: And what are you doing now, mate? Like, what are
Speaker 1: you up to, how do you feel in your days?
Speaker 1: What's your job? What's your focus as your attention?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Veteran Games.
Speaker 4: We just completed the second year of the Veteran Games
Speaker 4: on the Gold Coast. Next year October will be October
Speaker 4: twenty five will be our third year and it's just grown.
Speaker 4: It's doubled in size. Veterangames dot Com check it out.
Speaker 4: It's an event I came up with myself through my charity,
Speaker 4: and we're helping the highest SAT risk demographic of veterans
Speaker 4: identified by the Royal Commission.
Speaker 2: But we're having fun.
Speaker 4: We're getting people together, forming teams doing obstacle courses, doing
Speaker 4: all good stuff, and then post my courtcase when Corporate's
Speaker 4: kind of liked me again. So I've been getting back
Speaker 4: into doing some keynotes and some workshops intermitted.
Speaker 2: But I also spent a lot of time.
Speaker 4: This year overseas with my mates in the US and
Speaker 4: taking a bit more personal time for myself. But yeah,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, more travel, more engagements, get my book out,
Speaker 4: and really work hard on the Veteran games for October
Speaker 4: next year.
Speaker 1: Do you spend I speak about this idea or this
Speaker 1: concept quite a lot, Witheople. I spoke about this this
Speaker 1: morning with somebody, the idea of spending two or three
Speaker 1: days a year where it's just you with you, no phone,
Speaker 1: no no one, no newspapers, no interaction, no how much
Speaker 1: time do you spend alone where you're not distracted by
Speaker 1: something and it's just you and your thoughts? So you're
Speaker 1: good at that or bad at that.
Speaker 2: I can sit in my thoughts all day.
Speaker 4: That's actually my issue. My weakness is being present in
Speaker 4: the moment unless I'm really ripped into that moment through
Speaker 4: a period of joy or through a period of achievement.
Speaker 4: So I can, Yeah, my head will just sit there
Speaker 4: and plan, you know, for decades and dynasties. Yeah, right right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's really I don't know, it's always I think my imagination,
Speaker 4: particularly being a fat, lonely kid on the cap at home,
Speaker 4: you know, back before they're on mobile phones and you're
Speaker 4: waiting for someone to call on the landline.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my imagination has always been a for me to
Speaker 4: escape to. And then my military career my ability to plan,
Speaker 4: but then particularly just continuously think about what ifs and
Speaker 4: continguency plans and what happens here and to bring out
Speaker 4: what might come.
Speaker 2: That's all my head's really good at.
Speaker 4: But sometimes I just wish I could take it bill
Speaker 4: and switch it off and sit there and you know, meditate.
Speaker 2: Meditation is my biggest issue.
Speaker 4: I have to go and like watch the ocean or
Speaker 4: you know, play with a dog or things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that for you, of course, Craig Harp is
Speaker 1: going to say this, but I'm guessing that really working
Speaker 1: out is part of your therapy, is you know, part
Speaker 1: of your anxiety reduction, stress management, emotional kind of wellness.
Speaker 2: It really is, particularly.
Speaker 4: Like I love, I've incorporated much more like yoga and pilates,
Speaker 4: like low intensity stuff because I find my body winds
Speaker 4: up and gears.
Speaker 2: Up too quick.
Speaker 4: But in particular going to the gym and just lifting
Speaker 4: and doing what my heo birtuby training, listening to music
Speaker 4: or just having earphones in so people don't talk to
Speaker 4: me and just listening to my own thoughts. It's fascinating
Speaker 4: how that's where I do some of my best thinking.
Speaker 4: And my friend Sam, who's a COO for the charity,
Speaker 4: obviously like sending a mesters, but he's like, you're at
Speaker 4: the gym, aren't you, it's just my thoughts. Well, I
Speaker 4: think just doing something manual, you know, again that brings
Speaker 4: you into the moment and doesn't require you can't really overthink,
Speaker 4: you know, doing your repetitions. You're trying to focus on
Speaker 4: my muscle connection. It just enables some form of better
Speaker 4: alignment in me that allows some thoughts to sort of flow. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I talk about this idea, mate all the time, of
Speaker 1: people finding the optimal version of their normal operating system.
Speaker 1: Like everyone has a normal operating system. How you do life,
Speaker 1: how you do food, how you do relationships, how you
Speaker 1: do money, how you do career, whatever, What are the
Speaker 1: things that you have to do to not lose your shit,
Speaker 1: I mean apart from exercise, but like, what what's the
Speaker 1: heston a kind of operating system, be physical, emotional, psychological, professional, personal,
Speaker 1: What are some of the non negotiables for you to
Speaker 1: stay sane or as close to saying as.
Speaker 2: You can see? This is it? Like I'm actually pretty?
Speaker 2: Is the word low? Guy?
Speaker 4: Like, I don't need a lot of fine trimmings, you know,
Speaker 4: I can you know can rough.
Speaker 2: I don't really care. But I think for me, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's purpose.
Speaker 4: It's had something to look to look forward to be that,
Speaker 4: particularly for me having a social trip, you know, a
Speaker 4: trip overseas or something, and the next sort of the
Speaker 4: next knowing that I'm going to go away somewhere and
Speaker 4: escape somewhere for a bit. I think it's something that
Speaker 4: I find that I really really need because a big
Speaker 4: fear for me is getting stuck and stagnant sort of
Speaker 4: where I am. And a big part for me, mate,
Speaker 4: like my nutrition is actually a really big grounding part
Speaker 4: for me. I really struggled with sort of food as
Speaker 4: a kid, and again in the military, you just sort
Speaker 4: of eat to fuel and you never really learn a
Speaker 4: lot of about it, but particularly as I get older
Speaker 4: and having a routine and regiment for my eating and
Speaker 4: not you know, eating on the go or grabbing ship food,
Speaker 4: because my body just responds and my mindset responds so
Speaker 4: much to the food medicine that I put into it.
Speaker 4: So most people know, even when I'm traveling, if there's
Speaker 4: somewhere I can work out and I can get like
Speaker 4: good clean food, I'm set. Like the rest the rest
Speaker 4: of the routine can be chaos.
Speaker 1: Is it? They're a pstutic hang for you, hanging out
Speaker 1: with guys and girls that you've served with, like people
Speaker 1: who have kind of been through a version of what
Speaker 1: you that seems to us fucking civilians like there's some
Speaker 1: special amazing not with everyone, but I listen to lots
Speaker 1: of people who have served, and it's like there's this
Speaker 1: magic that happens between you.
Speaker 2: There really is.
Speaker 4: And the last four years in particular running my charity
Speaker 4: campaign for the Royal Commission all the rest, like I
Speaker 4: get inundated and contacted and hang around with veterans all
Speaker 4: the time, But.
Speaker 2: At this point of time in.
Speaker 4: My life, I actually think I'm a bit emotionally fatigued
Speaker 4: because I'm actually hyper cautious of constantly.
Speaker 2: Being drawn back to what I have done.
Speaker 4: And there's actually a point of me who wants to
Speaker 4: bring forward the lessons learned and make sure that the
Speaker 4: pathway for the next veterans isn't what I had to
Speaker 4: go through. But I just from a mindset perspective, constantly
Speaker 4: being around veterans these days and veteran issues isn't healthy
Speaker 4: for me. And that's why I really am putting my
Speaker 4: exit energy into the Veteran Games. When we get together
Speaker 4: for that long weekend, it is on and it is
Speaker 4: enjoyable and it is great, and want to connect with
Speaker 4: people on ans that day, like little counts, little shots
Speaker 4: in the arm are great. But whereas previously I've been
Speaker 4: completely immersed and surrounded by it, there's a lot of trauma.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of different people's journeys and different people's
Speaker 4: transitions from service life to regular life.
Speaker 2: In particular, I find it very relatable.
Speaker 4: Is great to lead about the good things, but in
Speaker 4: particular what I've learned is particularly my journey has been
Speaker 4: so unique because most of my soldiers you've got out
Speaker 4: have gone on to have families and to have kids,
Speaker 4: and I guess me being the only gay commando, I
Speaker 4: haven't really got a lot of people like me who
Speaker 4: connect with That's.
Speaker 2: Why I have my gay community, I have my bedroommates.
Speaker 4: I kind of have to get little bits and pieces
Speaker 4: from all over as opposed to being able to sit
Speaker 4: in one place and get everything that I need.
Speaker 2: That's what I've probably learned a lot more.
Speaker 1: Are you literally the only gay commando that's that's public?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, but like I mean statistically yes, yeah,
Speaker 4: and particularly the only gay commander officer, like the only
Speaker 4: gay Special Forces officer in Australia period, which again I
Speaker 4: find so fascinating. I had I don't want to go
Speaker 4: down this path, but just from a mindset perspective, you
Speaker 4: all get it. Like I can take it on the ABC.
Speaker 4: It's meant to be like the biggest friend into the
Speaker 4: rainbow community. And I'm literally like the only openly gay
Speaker 4: special Forces officer in Australia's history. And as opposed to
Speaker 4: coming in and being a credit to them, they choose
Speaker 4: to like attack me and push it and saying with
Speaker 4: the Marti Grad crew here in Sydney, like I had
Speaker 4: to take a flaming sword to the last year when
Speaker 4: they wanted to exclude all uniform police from the parade
Speaker 4: based on one guy at a uniform murdering his ex boyfriend.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like, yes, it's these activists as opposed
Speaker 4: to personally on the side. I get flooded with messages
Speaker 4: Craig and Tiff by just other gay men who see
Speaker 4: me as a role model for them, just because I
Speaker 4: present a different way of being gay where I'm not
Speaker 4: fully defined by my identity, isn't fully defined by my sexuality,
Speaker 4: and that is what I wish I had for the
Speaker 4: fifteen years I was trying to figure out what gay was. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: you just got to again that shift from wanting to
Speaker 4: be popular with everyone. Yes, yeah, just I get most
Speaker 4: frustrated by a lack of opportunity when there's like potential there.
Speaker 4: You know, I could be turning all these things into
Speaker 4: good things and helping, you know, mend the rift between
Speaker 4: I don't know, like I get more support from.
Speaker 2: The straight community. It's hilarious the amount of straight guys
Speaker 2: reach out like, hey, mate, no homo, but I think
Speaker 2: you bring inspirational and you thanks bro.
Speaker 1: No I imagine starting a message with no homo but
Speaker 1: oh that's fine.
Speaker 4: I say some screenshots on day, the amount of mysters
Speaker 4: I have, heyesto, no homo, but.
Speaker 1: I go stilly, a little bit unsure, but you know
Speaker 1: that's where i'd start, could.
Speaker 2: Be well, there are some of those messages too, mate.
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, like, I've never thought I've been gay,
Speaker 4: but something I'm really attracted to you.
Speaker 2: I was like, cool, mate, have a good base.
Speaker 1: Yeah what oh that's hilarious.
Speaker 4: That's worth of information I don't really need, but I
Speaker 4: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So fucking funny. We're going to wind up. I want
Speaker 1: to know. I want to know. Probably fame's not the
Speaker 1: right word, but you're in the ballpark of fame, like
Speaker 1: you're well known. Is that good? Is that bad? Do
Speaker 1: you fucking hate it? Do you like it? Is it
Speaker 1: practically good because it gives you leverage? But how do
Speaker 1: you feel about that?
Speaker 2: Great question? Mate?
Speaker 4: Because there was a period where I wanted to be famous.
Speaker 4: There is a period where, particularly when I won the
Speaker 4: Royal Commission, and nearly every political part except for the Greens,
Speaker 4: you know, offer me to run for the Senate for
Speaker 4: theam and things like that. And I'm lucky that I
Speaker 4: didn't become famous because I probably would have self destructed.
Speaker 4: And having gone through what I've been through has been
Speaker 4: a real big wake up call. And it's been that hold,
Speaker 4: the struggle between entitlement and responsibility and you know, whatever
Speaker 4: I do, whatever my profile is, as long as I
Speaker 4: can use it responsibly, that's what matters. But there is
Speaker 4: a lot to be said, particularly in Australia, where the
Speaker 4: more public you are, the less enjoyable life is because
Speaker 4: we do make mistakes. And my experiences of the ABC
Speaker 4: have left me going fuck. If I stumble out of a
Speaker 4: club at like three or four o'clock in the morning
Speaker 4: and you know, some guy takes a picture or video
Speaker 4: on his iPhone, you know I'll get plasted.
Speaker 2: But now I'm like, who cares. I'm fucking human and
Speaker 2: I'm having fun. You know you're not gonna You're not
Speaker 2: going to see me beating up anyone in the park.
Speaker 2: I'll just be dripping over my own feet.
Speaker 4: But yeah, and it's also been interesting, crazy because someone
Speaker 4: had this conversation the other day, like the reason why
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't understand even whole a famous
Speaker 4: piece like I'm not a sports star, I'm not a
Speaker 4: movie star, I'm not anything you know, my sort of
Speaker 4: small levels of fame have come from just you know,
Speaker 4: social campaigns and things like that, and it doesn't fit
Speaker 4: into a box of fame that people are used to,
Speaker 4: so people don't understand it.
Speaker 2: And I think I enjoy that, and that's my whole thing,
Speaker 2: is like, you.
Speaker 4: Don't need to be anything special other than like who
Speaker 4: you are, and you know, act on what you believe in.
Speaker 4: I think that's the most powerful message, and I'd like
Speaker 4: to be more inspirational in that regard than you know, famous.
Speaker 4: Famous is definitely you know, I think that's an objective
Speaker 4: that we shouldn't focus on.
Speaker 2: Fame is like a self serving objective.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I'm with you. I think the idea
Speaker 1: of fame ain't the fucking reality of it, and I think.
Speaker 2: It doesn't play the bills made.
Speaker 1: I think also, like especially now sound like an old person,
Speaker 1: fuck it, But I think we confuse popularity, even which
Speaker 1: is a popularity with love. It's like some of the
Speaker 1: people that I've coached over the years, who are you know,
Speaker 1: really well known household names some of them some of
Speaker 1: them you know, gorgeous, wealthy, famous, fucking miserable, like away
Speaker 1: from the razzle, dazzle like can't sleep, you know, medicative
Speaker 1: for anxiety and depression life. So the you know, from
Speaker 1: the outside looking in razzle dazzle, but the inside out,
Speaker 1: you know dog not everyone of course, but you know,
Speaker 1: we have this idea that wow, if I could have
Speaker 1: that and be there and you know, and then you
Speaker 1: get there because you're trying to feel you know, emotional
Speaker 1: and psychological or sociological holes with a fucking new face
Speaker 1: or some bigger biceps, or a new motorbike in my case,
Speaker 1: because I'm an insecure idiot. So if I get all
Speaker 1: the motorbikes just for if anyone wants to know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't work. You know, it works a bit for you,
Speaker 1: though chief doesn't working quite well until you said that.
Speaker 2: I think it's sitting down.
Speaker 4: The biggest body of work I think I've had to
Speaker 4: do myself is sitting down and figuring out what actually
Speaker 4: makes me happy.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: I know the stoics say you're not meant to chase happiness,
Speaker 4: but like otherwise, I'm a person who's used to chasing
Speaker 4: success off achievements and it's just an endless string. And
Speaker 4: when I got to La or a US, I have
Speaker 4: great friends that are billionaires and all the rest, and
Speaker 4: some of them are very happy. And I've seen other
Speaker 4: people where all the money in the world just brings
Speaker 4: more problems in the world, brings more responsibilities in the world.
Speaker 2: So I think it's for me.
Speaker 4: It's been getting back to values, love, languages, understanding.
Speaker 2: What actually makes you happy. One day we're all going
Speaker 2: to be old and saggy.
Speaker 4: So while you enjoy your body while you can, but
Speaker 4: it comes down to the personality and how you treat people,
Speaker 4: you know, because Karma is a bitch and she remembers
Speaker 4: and slaps hard. So yeah, I think a really important
Speaker 4: thing has been defining what actually makes you happy, and
Speaker 4: it can't be something you know, continuously extrinsic and achieving.
Speaker 4: And I mean, I'm not a motorbike fan, man, but
Speaker 4: there's so many motikes you can get made exactly. And
Speaker 4: when he said if I had a bad experience with
Speaker 4: a motorbike once, I was riding on my mate's farm
Speaker 4: down in Park's Peak Hill and about five kilometers from home.
Speaker 4: I laid it on inside, cut the fuel line and
Speaker 4: had to wearing a single cut myself up and had
Speaker 4: to push this like back five k's and I pushed
Speaker 4: it through the fucking horse paddock and got attacked by
Speaker 4: the fucking horses and everything that day. I've only ever
Speaker 4: ridden the quad bike. I don't do motorbikes, to do
Speaker 4: quad bikes.
Speaker 1: And he definitely doesn't do horses. And by the way,
Speaker 1: if you're a horse.
Speaker 2: I like, mate, I like horses.
Speaker 4: I appreciated that I interrupted their domain, but as a
Speaker 4: fourteen year old kid, I was in a world of
Speaker 4: and I was so embarrassed and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's my motbile story.
Speaker 1: Now, mate, I don't know. I love chatting to you.
Speaker 1: I wish we could have you on a regular basis,
Speaker 1: but you're too famous.
Speaker 4: Do it, mate, I've got plenty of tight less to
Speaker 4: do it busy one, mister seventeen hundred podcasts.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just And when you said old and saggy,
Speaker 1: I didn't take it personally like I.
Speaker 4: Said, I've been hearing your ad pumping on other podcasts.
Speaker 2: You're doing well, so keep up with the work, right.
Speaker 1: I'm no you, mate, but I do what I can
Speaker 1: just quickly. If I don't know if you want any
Speaker 1: more followers or people to connect with you, but if
Speaker 1: per chance people want to follow you, on the interwebs.
Speaker 1: How do they do that?
Speaker 4: Do it my website Hesteron Russell dot com, especially if
Speaker 4: you're going to come and speak, or I'll be on
Speaker 4: my book there soon and then mainly my Instagram, so
Speaker 4: I don't really.
Speaker 2: Check much else.
Speaker 4: It's just at Heston Russell to us is two l's
Speaker 4: you got with no Homo.
Speaker 2: So we'll go from there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no Homo and he'll definitely lean in funk.
Speaker 1: I wish I could use that as the title, but
Speaker 1: somebody's going to kick up.
Speaker 2: Nah, I don't, it's not worth it.
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, that's my fucking That might be my last
Speaker 1: day on the Nova platform? Where did Harps go? And
Speaker 1: who knows?
Speaker 2: Take no Homo?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you say it, surely I'm allowed to use
Speaker 1: it as a title.
Speaker 2: Do we know up to you?
Speaker 4: Do we know the name of the Yeah, it's called
Speaker 4: Heston Russell and Unconventional Perspective and it's got a little
Speaker 4: subtitle that says Special Forces Sexuality and Suicide. I think
Speaker 4: we spoke about it. This is what when I had
Speaker 4: that plotty with you, Tip, I think you actually use
Speaker 4: that as the title. So yeah, it's broad ranging, but
Speaker 4: at Heston Russell and unconventional perspective, because again, what I've
Speaker 4: learned is all our lives. It's just our own perspective,
Speaker 4: and the story is mine, and people might not agree
Speaker 4: with it, and it's a pretty controversial shit now and.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm writing that down because that might be both
Speaker 1: the title of your book and the title of this episode.
Speaker 1: We'll see. Hey, mate, we say goodbye, but you're the best.
Speaker 1: We've both got a big brush on. I hope I.
Speaker 2: Can really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: No, I've got to be crush, I know, I fuck it.
Speaker 1: I could be. I'm not because I'm shipped with women.
Speaker 1: So maybe maybe I'm the lowest to the party, gay
Speaker 1: guy and who.
Speaker 2: Haven't found the right one? Mate, just haven't found the
Speaker 2: right one. That's it. Don't chase the track. That's the
Speaker 2: new mantwer. Don't chase the track.
Speaker 1: Okay, note to self. Cool, Thanks Tiff, Thanks Heston, thank you.
Speaker 2: Thanks Greig and Tiff. Take care,