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Speaker 1: I'll get our you, bloody champions, Welcome to another installing

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Speaker 1: the you project. It's me, It's fucking Harps. It's tiff.

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Speaker 1: There we are four seconds in there's a swear word.

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Speaker 1: A few people are jumping out. Hi, tiv high Harps. Now,

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Speaker 1: who do you reckons more of a chance of getting

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Speaker 1: a cuddle?

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Speaker 2: Me or you?

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Speaker 3: From our game? Breaks my heart? It's me. I think

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Speaker 3: it's you, I reckon.

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Speaker 1: It's both of us. It's both of us, and I

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Speaker 1: think both of us would like a hug. It's a pity.

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Speaker 1: It's geographically impossible at the moment. Oh look he's blushing, mate,

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Speaker 1: how are you going?

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Speaker 2: Well, look I'm a cuddler, so I don't shake hand.

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Speaker 2: I'll take your hand, but I'll give you both a

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Speaker 2: cuddle regardless of orientation. So there you go.

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Speaker 1: We fan fantastic, fantastic. I am one of my mates

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Speaker 1: was in the gym last night sitting on the upright

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Speaker 1: vertical bench and he was doing shoulder press and he

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Speaker 1: had reasonably heavyweights. And I walked in and I sat

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Speaker 1: on I straddled him like Koala on a tree.

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Speaker 2: There it is to showing a photo of this. That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Who was there taking the.

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Speaker 1: Photo, mateo, So I straddled him like a koala on

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Speaker 1: a tree and it was fun. You know I need

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Speaker 1: everyone needs a bit of love, mate, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean physical touch, the love language, mate, we need it.

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Speaker 2: What is your speaking of that book?

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Speaker 1: Like you've obviously read that book or you're at least

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Speaker 1: you're familiar with the love languages.

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Speaker 2: I used to teach it to the new commando officers

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Speaker 2: up they passed the commando selection course and pass over

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Speaker 2: all the scripture. But replace the word love with motivational value,

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Speaker 2: and it's a way to sort of tap into some

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Speaker 2: extra emotional intelligence, particularly in the special force of the

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Speaker 2: world of needing to win over and influence people.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So let's just let's just I didn't well,

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Speaker 1: actually didn't have a plan. As you know, I never

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Speaker 1: have a pot. It's good, here we go, So let's

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Speaker 1: just go through them. So quality time is one physical touch,

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Speaker 1: words of affirmation.

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Speaker 2: Give receiving gifts, an act of service.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, acts of service. So let's start with you, boxer,

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Speaker 1: you fucking pugilist in the top left corner of my screen.

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Speaker 1: What what do you reckon? Your love language is? Actually,

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Speaker 1: can I tell you what I think.

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Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I reckon yours. Yours is.

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Speaker 1: From me, from me? What is love for me? For

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Speaker 1: you is words of affirmation.

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Speaker 3: That is correct.

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Speaker 2: How you receive love is words of affirmation. No, yeah,

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Speaker 2: from me.

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Speaker 1: She gives us because I'm her mentor she wants, which

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Speaker 1: everyone does. I'm the same.

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Speaker 2: She wants a people.

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Speaker 1: And a verbal hug love a verbal she doesn't like.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't like an actual hug. She's you haven't heard

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Speaker 1: me say this, but she constantly when she's in the

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Speaker 1: well anywhere, really, she wears a baseball cap with give

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Speaker 1: us a hug and a T a T shirt that says,

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Speaker 1: but fuck off.

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Speaker 4: Though that was Tim two point oh, this is TIF

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Speaker 4: three point oh. And he's an interesting fact. If I

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Speaker 4: if my love language is actually reflective of me and

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Speaker 4: my animals, it's definitely physical touch, just.

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Speaker 2: Because too remember there's too so the way you feel

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Speaker 2: love and then the way you show love the two

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Speaker 2: different love languages. Usually Yeah, But you like.

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Speaker 1: Being loved by animals because they're not going to break

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Speaker 1: your heart and lie to you and bullshit you, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the same with everyone.

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Speaker 2: That's everyone. They're authentic. They're actually authentic. There's no ulterium

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Speaker 2: motive except for maybe some food and some hugs. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: did you get that thing on?

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Speaker 1: I didn't send it to you. I should send it

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Speaker 1: to both of you. It's just this dude talking about

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Speaker 1: how horses communicate. This is irrelevant. Who knows where we're

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Speaker 1: going on this show. But like this guy who's a

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Speaker 1: genuine horse whisperer and he's talking about how, you know, basically,

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Speaker 1: humans are predators. Horses in the wild are prey and

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Speaker 1: so they you know, apart from the fact that they

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Speaker 1: don't speak human, we don't speak horse, and so it

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Speaker 1: takes them along. Like their love part of their love

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Speaker 1: languages being trust is being able to trust humans, and

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Speaker 1: it takes them a long time.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, interesting love. It was something in there. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we do a lot of equine therapy in the veteran

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Speaker 2: community to help people with trauma and stuff, and it's

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Speaker 2: you know, that trust and that connection. I think that

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Speaker 2: is the core part that really shines through you.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot like a lot of people say

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Speaker 1: that that once you have a connection with a horse,

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Speaker 1: it's almost supernatural. There's something special going on. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think horses are smarter than we think I think.

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Speaker 2: That's also a respect piece there, because like a horse

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Speaker 2: would actually kick the shit out of you, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's actually yeah, there's not. You don't have this physical

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Speaker 2: superiority to them as we do most animals, especially in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, what about your love language, Tiff? Like, what

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Speaker 1: do you what do you get from like your mum

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Speaker 1: and your dad?

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 3: I reckon my mom? Is I reckon gifts? She likes

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Speaker 3: she likes giving gifts? What's that?

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Speaker 1: What do you want from? What do you want.

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Speaker 2: The same? Words of affirmation is usually a thing? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What about how do you show love to them? How

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Speaker 2: do you like showing love to people?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, mate, punch in the face.

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Speaker 2: Come on, Like what makes you feel good? Do you

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Speaker 2: like doing things for people?

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Speaker 3: Like things for people, acts of service?

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Speaker 2: I thought you might like giving gifts.

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Speaker 3: But I get a bit stressed about giving the right gift.

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Speaker 3: So I hate Christmas.

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Speaker 4: I hate buying gifts because I want the gift to

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Speaker 4: be specially and always feel stressed about it.

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Speaker 1: I reckon that acts of services you like towards me

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Speaker 1: because like sometimes like we might do something like this, mate,

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Speaker 1: where we have a chat and then and now a

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Speaker 1: later Tiff will send me a reel that she's made

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Speaker 1: of this, which is really good that she didn't have

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Speaker 1: to do.

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Speaker 2: It's not she doesn't have a I definitely pick Tiff

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Speaker 2: as an access service I'm the same. I'm an access

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Speaker 2: service person. I like to feel value by doing things

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Speaker 2: for people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have this innate thing to protect people that

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Speaker 1: I love. I don't know, I think maybe that falls

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Speaker 1: into acts of service, Like I'm very almost likely stupidly

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Speaker 1: territorial about people I love.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm the same. It's a protecting instinct. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you've had a quiet So you've had a quiet year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been quite interesting the last

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Speaker 2: twelve months. Almost not much on, not much on. Ah, Honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's you know, there's been there's been sprints, but there's

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Speaker 2: been a lot of buyant time as well. Been it's

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Speaker 2: been an interesting year. I thought twenty twenty was really

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Speaker 2: going to be in my year, and instead it's been

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest learning curve of the year that

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Speaker 2: I've ever had a long time, to be honest, what

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Speaker 2: have you learned? Well? So, my court case against the

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Speaker 2: ABC finished October last year and I won. You know,

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Speaker 2: they found the ABC and two of their journalists were

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Speaker 2: personally found guilty of defamation, and you know, I want

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Speaker 2: to pay out, and they did it so badly. They

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Speaker 2: had to pay for all of my legal costs. It

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Speaker 2: costs millions and millions of dollars attacks Player fund. But

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Speaker 2: I sort of just then expected the everything else to

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Speaker 2: flow through. I just expected. What was the original thing

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Speaker 2: I asked for when I took them to court was

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Speaker 2: an apology for my soldiers, for our families, and for

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Speaker 2: me and my families. And getting an apology has literally

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Speaker 2: been the bridge too far for them. I had to then,

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Speaker 2: you know, I had a few ages up my sleeve.

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Speaker 2: They published this story, they added gunshots to this combat footage,

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Speaker 2: they changed it, they added circles, They did all these

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Speaker 2: incredible things that I didn't think I'd have to then

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Speaker 2: pull out of the back as well as take them

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Speaker 2: to the federal court. But I did a whole documentary

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Speaker 2: with Channel seven Spotlight revealed it all. And all that's

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Speaker 2: happened is for the next six months has been just

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Speaker 2: as what I say is the biggest campaign of gas

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Speaker 2: lighting and ask covering I've ever seen, and again, even

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Speaker 2: when they had to fess up and say yes, we

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Speaker 2: did edit the footage. They literally issued an apology to

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Speaker 2: all the members of the Second Commander Regiment, which I love,

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Speaker 2: but refused to issue any personal apology to Heston Russell.

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Speaker 2: It's a classic media play, you know, don't give someone

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Speaker 2: an attention by actually saying their name. And I get

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Speaker 2: it if you know we were enemies, if it was

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Speaker 2: someone a company that had money to be made. But

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Speaker 2: it's our ABC, It's the ABC. I you tip everyone.

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Speaker 2: We literally pay our taxes towards. So I've really gone

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Speaker 2: through this bracter in well. I went through this period

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Speaker 2: where I was like, all of these morals and values

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Speaker 2: and standards that I was brought up with and trained

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Speaker 2: in the military, are they really just only relevant for

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Speaker 2: the military? Am I actually completely out of place in

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Speaker 2: regular society? Is my mindset going into life after services

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Speaker 2: completely dysfunctional? Am I just fitting myself on the foot

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Speaker 2: by having these expectations of, you know, people simply being good, people,

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Speaker 2: having integrity, being honest? But then sort of the pendulum

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Speaker 2: has shifted back because I'm stopped on the streets by

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Speaker 2: just lovely people every day police officer day having a coffee,

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Speaker 2: just saying hey, you know I saw your okay, so

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Speaker 2: listen to podcasts this. I want you to know like

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Speaker 2: you have our support. But for me and my mastering

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Speaker 2: is leadership. You know, I was trained to be a

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Speaker 2: Special Force as leader, had to spend four years studying

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Speaker 2: leadership as I was allowed to be in charge of anyone.

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Speaker 2: And I've just really been disillusioned by the leadership of

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Speaker 2: not a single person from Defense speaking out even when

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Speaker 2: we proved the ABC added gunshots to footage. You know,

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Speaker 2: not a single politician, you know, Albow stood next to

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Speaker 2: me when we won the campaign for the Royal Commission

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Speaker 2: when it was good for him and boats. You know,

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Speaker 2: not a single person from the ABC willing to apologize

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Speaker 2: to Heston Russell and his family. So, you know, I

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Speaker 2: went through a period where I just went through a

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Speaker 2: big depressive period, to be honest, and I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to get out of Australia and went over to the

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Speaker 2: US for a few months. I tried to build a

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Speaker 2: new life there. I got a new boyfriend that fell

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Speaker 2: through in a very rapid weight as well. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's been a fascinating year. But I'm back. I'm energized,

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Speaker 2: and I'm putting all my efforts and energy into my

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Speaker 2: book that I'm looking to probably self publish in the

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Speaker 2: next few months to be able to get this all

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Speaker 2: out in detail. And perhaps he who has the last word,

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Speaker 2: has the last laugh or something, how does that thing go?

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Speaker 2: Who knows who.

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Speaker 1: Has the last laugh wins or something?

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Speaker 2: What are you think?

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Speaker 1: I think?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: It is really interesting because I find this culturally too,

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Speaker 1: like where I call them cults of thought, mate, cults

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Speaker 1: have thought, where people live in cognitive, emotional, political echo chambers. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what the what the fuck is wrong with going?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 1: I fucked up or we fucked up? What is so

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Speaker 1: hard about going? I used to think A and now

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Speaker 1: I think B. But the truth is that people me

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Speaker 1: included I get I probably fuck up three things an episode,

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Speaker 1: and we've done seventeen hundred, so that's five thousand fuck

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Speaker 1: ups conservatively. I'll probably say something stupid or incorrect, right,

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Speaker 1: But I know that, and I own it and I

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Speaker 1: acknowledge it, and I'm still flawed. But why why do

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Speaker 1: you think the ABC can't just go, look, we got

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Speaker 1: it wrong. We're real sorry? What is that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I'm with you? Great mistakes and failure are

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Speaker 2: what we spent most of our time on in the military,

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Speaker 2: learning the lessons learn and putting them into practice and

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Speaker 2: not do it again, and you know, writing them down

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Speaker 2: and being public with them, because that's where it grows.

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Speaker 2: It's just come down to and even what the judge

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Speaker 2: said at the end of my verdict, it's come down

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Speaker 2: to this cultural war and come down to this attitude

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Speaker 2: where the ABC adopts any criticism as a fence and

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Speaker 2: vigorously attacks and defends their position as opposed to objectively

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Speaker 2: being what they're supposed to be. Like we're having this

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Speaker 2: conversation this last week, the new chair of the ABC,

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Speaker 2: Kim Williams, stood up in front of the Press Council

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Speaker 2: and took a swipe at Joe Rogan, you know, talking

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Speaker 2: about misinformation disinformation like the biggest podcasts in the world.

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Speaker 2: And then the journalists were asking him, you know, how

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Speaker 2: can you make that comment up of your organization literally

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Speaker 2: has been found to have, you know, change footage, added gunshots.

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Speaker 2: And the biggest issue to me, mate, has been that

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Speaker 2: they appointed one of their own former executives to do

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Speaker 2: this independent inquiry, which by even the term independent is

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Speaker 2: not independent, you know, and they said that it was

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Speaker 2: an error. Someone accidentally added extra gunshots into this footage.

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Speaker 2: Like it's just it's insane and all that I'm learning.

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Speaker 2: I've learned two things, you know. One camera is a

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Speaker 2: bit and she slaps hard when she comes back around

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Speaker 2: two and two. Like these people literally, like you said, mate,

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Speaker 2: in an echo chamber. This dude, Kim Williams, he stood

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Speaker 2: up and said, you know, can't stand Joe Rogan. I

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Speaker 2: don't listen to him at all, but then proceeded to

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Speaker 2: tell everyone why Joe Rogan was so bad. You're the

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Speaker 2: head of a media organization who just admitted that you

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Speaker 2: haven't personally listened to or researched this guy, but you're

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Speaker 2: able to make an opinion that you're going to tell

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Speaker 2: the entire press councils ahead of our ABC. So these

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Speaker 2: people are in their own echo chambers. They do think

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Speaker 2: they're out of breach. They're this boudoir elite that just

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Speaker 2: need a reality check, and I really do feel that

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Speaker 2: is coming soon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like we need some kind of this

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Speaker 1: is this is a reach, but almost like a spiritual

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Speaker 1: revolution where people just go, you know what, you get

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Speaker 1: stuff wrong? We get stuff wrong, you know, and they

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Speaker 1: like specifically to Joe Rogan. There's not too many people

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Speaker 1: in Australia who've heard more Joe Rogan than me. Right,

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Speaker 1: He's my go to. I was listening to Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: before I started a show, and that was This has

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Speaker 1: been around for seven years. I've probably listened to two

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Speaker 1: thousand of his his twenty three hundred or so episodes.

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Speaker 1: And I agree with everything sometimes, you know, when they're

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Speaker 1: sitting on talking about dope endlessly or comedy that is,

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Speaker 1: or you know, it's like, I don't agree with everything,

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Speaker 1: but you cannot accuse him of not having diverse conversations

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Speaker 1: with diverse and being relatively I love it.

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Speaker 2: You hear some of the conversations hit there going like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I never thought that way, I never agreed

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Speaker 2: with that, but you provided me with a diferent perspective,

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Speaker 2: like it's actually an open progressive conversation one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: And even with you know, it's like he had Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump on and people like, oh, of course, I had

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Speaker 1: fucking Donald Trump, and then he spoke about invite and

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Speaker 1: by the way, everyone that's not political, this is just

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Speaker 1: about Then he offered Kamala to come on, and they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can interview her, not in your studio, not for

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Speaker 1: three hours. You have to come to us. You have

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Speaker 1: to be in this environment and here's a list of

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Speaker 1: thirty five things you can't talk about, and it's going

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Speaker 1: to be sixty minutes. And so it was all going

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Speaker 1: to be orchestrated. He's like nah, And then people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: why didn't you do you get the other side. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I offered her to come in, but there were so

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Speaker 1: many stipulations and rules that it wouldn't have been an

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Speaker 1: organic conversation, which is what he does, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm with her. I was just

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Speaker 2: I was literally over in the US for Halloween, the

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Speaker 2: election and my birthday was a very very unique time.

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Speaker 2: And I live in a blue side from all my

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Speaker 2: friends in blue states over there, and it was really

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Speaker 2: a fascinating time. But yeah, mate, for yeah, the head

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Speaker 2: of the ABC that we all pay for, that's meant

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Speaker 2: to be an unbiased, neutual organization to even stand up

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Speaker 2: and take a swipe at the biggest podcast in the world, Like,

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Speaker 2: how is that smart? How does that reflect on Australia?

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Speaker 2: How does that positively impact his job, like it's just

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Speaker 2: for me, it's just insane, Like this guy is just

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Speaker 2: up in the clouds anyway, And then that helps me

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Speaker 2: really understand why the organization is doing what it's doing,

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Speaker 2: you know, because you know, leadership and culture all starts

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Speaker 2: from the top of close through.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's like me or you standing up talking about fuck,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about fucking neurosurgery and going you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think, Well, we don't fuck because you're not a

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Speaker 1: neurosurgeon and you've never done an operation, Craig, and you're

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Speaker 1: a dumbass. Like if you, like, if he'd been away

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Speaker 1: and listened to one hundred episodes or even ten episodes

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Speaker 1: of Rogan all the way through, you know, then maybe,

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Speaker 1: but as he said, he's never listened. Like, dude, you're commenting,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people say that to me. I

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Speaker 1: don't need to listen to him. I'm like, how the

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Speaker 1: fuck you have an opinion about someone you've never met?

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Speaker 2: In inverted comments, I love it. My favorite these days

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Speaker 2: at Denzel Washington. What's he saying, if you listen or

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Speaker 2: read to the media, if you don't listen or read

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Speaker 2: to the media, you're not informed. If you do listen

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Speaker 2: or read or listen to them, you're misinformed or unimportant.

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Speaker 2: He's fantastic, but yeah, we're getting away from what is

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Speaker 2: meant to be their core role and function. And what

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Speaker 2: I love in this diversity of free speech world Western

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Speaker 2: world is you know, just like Joe Rogan, you don't

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Speaker 2: like all these episodes, but it's there to provide that variety,

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Speaker 2: and you can tune in, your tune out, and it's

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Speaker 2: nothing to stop you from going and fact checking yourself.

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Speaker 2: Like even this government disinformation and Misinformation Bill which got

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Speaker 2: defeated thankfully, you know, they excluded the ABC and others

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Speaker 2: from it, and so many of my friends even in

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Speaker 2: the current parliament, the current sentiment are just like Si Senate,

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Speaker 2: You've literally just had the tax payer funder ABC be

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Speaker 2: found to have done what is by default misinformation and

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Speaker 2: you're going to exclude them from this.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: What I've again taken faith from is that government might

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Speaker 2: keep thinking that they can provide the parental solutions to

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Speaker 2: the people. At the end of the day, more and

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Speaker 2: more people are just being more and more free thinking,

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Speaker 2: you know. And even this bill about banning teenagers from

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Speaker 2: social media, you know, broths and coins. But at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, I just have a blatant issue

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Speaker 2: with people in Parliament thinking that they are better parents,

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Speaker 2: that they're better on health and nutrition, they better advisers

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Speaker 2: on how we should live our lives as opposed to

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Speaker 2: what their core function is meant to be. And that's

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Speaker 2: like progressing our country and making our standard of life

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Speaker 2: better and easier and more enjoyable and all the rest.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you just have to watch them and see

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Speaker 2: the atics carry on with it's school yard, school yard

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Speaker 2: bullshit anyway, Well.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's all mate. There's no digression because

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Speaker 1: there's no plan. There's no fucking direction on this show.

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Speaker 1: It's the it's the verbal version of a dog with

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Speaker 1: three dicks this show. So we're okay with that. It's

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Speaker 1: the conversational the conversational dog with three dicks speaking of

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. Yeah, I was watching you,

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Speaker 1: you know, I watched the Spotlight show doc and but

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been watching you mate, amazing, and I

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Speaker 1: try not to. I think I sent you a few things,

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Speaker 1: but I try not to because I know you're going

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Speaker 1: to be and undoated with shit.

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Speaker 2: But what I appreciated. Mat I get to everything. I

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Speaker 2: get to everything, I really do.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Actually what I wanted was like, you're clearly very resilient,

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Speaker 6: and you clearly have got you know, because of your training,

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Speaker 6: and I would think your personality and your nature.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got really good skills to be able

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Speaker 1: to deal with shit, you know, as any soldier needs

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Speaker 1: to be able to deal with discomfort and pain and

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Speaker 1: uncertainty and all those things that human beings don't like,

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Speaker 1: the unknown, the uncertain, the unfamiliar, and the uncomfortable. That's

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Speaker 1: where you live as a soldier. But this is a

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Speaker 1: different type of pain, isn't it going through like public

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Speaker 1: scrutiny where people are publicly saying, essentially, you're a piece

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Speaker 1: of shit who did all these bad things and it's

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Speaker 1: absolutely untrue, but you can't, you know.

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Speaker 7: Like and of course you've been vindicated and it's all

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Speaker 7: bullshit and they fucked up and they were dishonest. We get,

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Speaker 7: but there was a period of time where people didn't

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Speaker 7: know that, right, people like that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a great observation. I love to dive

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Speaker 2: into this because you know, my whole psychology sociology came

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Speaker 2: from being a pretty unpopular fat kid at school to

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Speaker 2: being very successful in the military. But in particular, what

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Speaker 2: I was able to achieve during my time throughout my

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Speaker 2: military career was to be very good at my job

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Speaker 2: and very liked by everyone as well. Like I always

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Speaker 2: put in the work to be good at my job

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Speaker 2: and a good person. That's the quote and ethought that

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Speaker 2: my sort of dad gave me from his time in

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Speaker 2: the military. And even when we talk about and lecture

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Speaker 2: about and teach leadership, where you often separate leadership from

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Speaker 2: likability to people focused on being liked and impact their job.

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Speaker 2: But I was always able to be both because I

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Speaker 2: always maintained a lie. My guys even said, there's hesto

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Speaker 2: and there's hesta, and like you know, I was able

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Speaker 2: to really put in those boundaries. And throughout my entire

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Speaker 2: career in special courses, no one knew what you did

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Speaker 2: in your outside life. You didn't have social media, your

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Speaker 2: family on knew bits and pieces, but you had all

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Speaker 2: of the Maslow's hierarchicve needs, plus all of your love

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Speaker 2: languages catered for by the incredible team that you deployed

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Speaker 2: five times to the Middle East and would literally die

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Speaker 2: for because you knew that's what was required, and you

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Speaker 2: love them like you know brothers and sisters. And my

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Speaker 2: love language is my love language. The way I received

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Speaker 2: love had always been acts of service. I had always

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Speaker 2: been sorry equality time, because I love to do things

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Speaker 2: for people, simply being able to be around people and

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Speaker 2: not feel like I have to do things for them,

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Speaker 2: and have people who just wanted to hang around with

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Speaker 2: me be with me. You know, I'd never was alone

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Speaker 2: once in my career, and then particularly through the last

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Speaker 2: two years, my love language, the way which I need

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Speaker 2: to feel love is literally changed to words of affirmation

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Speaker 2: because I have had my identity broken down and learned

434
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: in front of me by those with the means to

435
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: do so, and being unable to do so myself. And

436
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: I've had more people, particularly in the gay community here

437
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 2: in Sydney wherever, more people come out with hatred towards

438
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 2: me online and whatnot who've never actually met me, And

439
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: that affected me so much because I'd never been so

440
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 2: accustomed to people not liking me, because I genuinely do

441
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: everything with the right reasons, for the right reasons and

442
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 2: responsibly in my opinion, and I put myself last in

443
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 2: the order of a lot of things that I do.

444
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: So I had then had to go through this period,

445
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: particularly at the end of the court case, you know,

446
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 2: when I was able to prove that I was right

447
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 2: the whole time in reassessing what was value to me,

448
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: decluttering my life from all the people who left when

449
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: the times were bad and not only allowing a handful

450
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: back in when the times were good, you know. And yeah,

451
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: and really understanding more and more about myself. And yeah,

452
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 2: it's been a really interesting rebuilding phase from that. But

453
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: end of the day, and now I'm at a point

454
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 2: where I just appreciate you're never going to please everyone,

455
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: do things for the right reasons, and stop caring so

456
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: much for people think. And this is the one thing

457
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: I say to people when they say, oh, so and

458
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: so I said something about you, I'm like, as have

459
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 2: they ever met me? No? Then, like, I don't give

460
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: a shit. You know, if I've generally done something or

461
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 2: had a mistake, that's great, Give me a call, give

462
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: me a text, you know, shoot me a DM. Otherwise

463
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: I do not care about your opinion.

464
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 1: It's so interesting how much people that don't know us

465
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 1: or love us, you know, can affect us. And I'm

466
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm a fair bit better than

467
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: I used to be. But I might get a hundred

468
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: comments on something that are good and one that goes

469
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: you or I can't. I'm like, that's all I pay

470
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: attention to. And I'm like, I can't sleep because some.

471
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: Of the love heart I put a love heart on it.

472
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: Now I just put a love art on it. You know.

473
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: I did a few months ago.

474
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 1: I did what I call a private workshop, which just

475
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: means it's for twenty twenty five people, not a big workshop.

476
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: So it was like half a day and anyway, it

477
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: was probably five dudes, ladies, and so we spend about

478
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: five hours together. We spend a bit of time together.

479
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 1: We do a deep dive and everyone gets to talk

480
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: and ask questions and it's good. You know, there's tears

481
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: and snot and hugs and that's pretty good experience. And

482
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: one of the ladies goes to me, just it was

483
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: in the context of the conversation. She goes, my ex

484
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: husband hates you. She's just like that hates you. I go, oh, goody,

485
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: what's his name? And she tells me. I go, I don't,

486
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: I go do I know him? She goes, oh, no,

487
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 1: you've never met. I go, right, so, have I had

488
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: a chat with him? She's like, no, no, no, you've

489
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: never know. But he hates you. I'm like, oh, okay,

490
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: why does he hate me? He goes? She goes, because

491
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: he thinks you broke up our marriage because I started

492
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: listening to you.

493
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: Right, wow, I mean that lays it. Yep.

494
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, so he was a prick and then you

495
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, that is hilarious, like she started

496
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: standing up for her self and and because she stood

497
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: up for her self and because she wouldn't be treated

498
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: like a doormat and nothing to do with him, he

499
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: wasn't fold at all. Like the person responsible for the

500
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: the demise of his marriage was the the blok who's

501
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: got the podcast. I'm like, how fucking stupid are you?

502
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: And how a self awareness do you not have?

503
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: Mate? That's the key part. So when people say that

504
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: to me, you know, so and so hates you, like cool?

505
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: Have ever let me know? My response is I think, well,

506
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: that's more of a reflection on them than is me,

507
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 2: because I would never make up an opinion on someone

508
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: without meeting them. But what I've also learned is because

509
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: I've definitely been in that place as well. People attack

510
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: because they're either protecting or projecting something that's going on

511
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: with them. You know, at the end of the day,

512
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: the energy we're putting out is coming from a place.

513
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: So if someone's unhappy with me or angry with me,

514
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: or do you know, go on Twitter, mate and see

515
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: they are angry people on there. Like I now to

516
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: sit back and go, hey, there's something else going on

517
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 2: behind the scenes here and that's not my issue, that's

518
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: their You know, you look like an idiot put in

519
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: these tweets. They'll come back and you know, launt you

520
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: in five or ten years time when you go for

521
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: a job, go nuts, especially after going through the court.

522
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: Some of the best tweets came from maybe the ABC

523
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: what's her bigger name of data dumped it because she's

524
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: just a waste. She was the she was the head

525
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: of the investigations. I can't remember her name, but anyway,

526
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, no, I never said this, I never

527
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: said this, And then my lawyer just pulls out like

528
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 2: her Twitter account and says, well, these sweets say you did,

529
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: and she literally with court lying in the stand it

530
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: was man's okay.

531
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: So when when she said I didn't say that, and

532
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: then he produced evidence that she did say that.

533
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: What did she do? Then she like, yeah, my barrister,

534
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: sucras ant, what is this? She was just a hearty

535
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: She was a terrible, terrible person. She was just every

536
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: answer she had she was like spitting fire out of

537
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: the You like, just to watch it. You know. I

538
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 2: was sitting at the back of the court and like,

539
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: my barrister that morning had run me through what she's

540
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 2: going to do. And she's like, so, miss Puccini, Joanne Puccini,

541
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 2: that's it. She's she's now the head of ABC's investigations.

542
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: It incredible. She's like, so you never said that this

543
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: article was linked to this one or was never talking

544
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: about Heston Russell. And she's like, yeah, that's correct. She's

545
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 2: like cool, Okay, here are your tweets that say Mark

546
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: Willisy upheld Heston Russell. Blah blah blah blah. And you

547
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: just watched her drop like three or four inches and

548
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: exhale in the chair. It's just like gotchaw. My embarrasster too,

549
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: just looks over her shoulder at me. It just gives

550
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: me a week and I'm trying to maintain my composure,

551
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: you know, people thinking that, and this is embarrasses me

552
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: in the bet She's like, the truth comes out. The

553
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 2: one thing you'll learn about, you know, good lawyers and

554
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: legal process is truth comes out. Yeah, and that was

555
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: even incredible. Mate, Like this, I'm saying, this is all

556
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: the stuff that come out. The ABC head of Investigations

557
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 2: unit was caught lying on the stand. But hey, you

558
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: know she's probably going to be promoted next week. Who cares.

559
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: Hey, I want to talk to you about trust.

560
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: Oh, tell me about it.

561
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go trust. Just if on that

562
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: for me before I ask a specific question, grif.

563
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: On that, My personal journey with trust has always been

564
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: I trust people too far. I trust. I historically trust

565
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: people first, and then you lose my trust. And again,

566
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 2: when we spoke about this shift in the last year

567
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 2: or so, people really now need to earn my trust

568
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: because as soon as I trust. I think the two

569
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 2: values for me that are very interlinked I trust and loyalty, Like,

570
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: if I trust you, then you have my loyalty. And

571
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: I think loyalty is probably my strongest value and skill

572
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: set I bring to any sort of relationship.

573
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think I did it the other way around. I, oh, okay, no,

574
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: maybe I did know. Maybe I was yeah, yeah, we

575
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: don't have to be the same, mate, No, no, no,

576
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: But I did you ask me once if I if

577
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: you trusted me, and I said not completely because it

578
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: was early day, or.

579
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: You said you did know?

580
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 5: You said you did, and I was like, right, But

581
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 5: I've had no no, no, no, I've I've had people that

582
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 5: I've known for a while, like you know, and there's

583
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 5: no tragedy here or no self pity.

584
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: But like over the years, especially in my twenties and thirties,

585
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: I trusted, like, not only trusted, loved some people, like

586
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: would have pretty much walked over a fucking broken glass

587
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: for them who did some horrible shit, right, none of

588
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: it life threatening, but horrible nonetheless. And so for these

589
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: like these days, I just takes me quite a while.

590
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I distrust someone. It just means I don't

591
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: trust them yet. You know, I'm kind of almost on

592
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: the fence because that, yeah, especially when you.

593
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: I think I don't know, that's important. That's an important

594
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: back to there. Mate, Like you said, there's there's not

595
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: trust and distrust, there's just this area in the middle

596
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: where you just I'm sure, yes, a lot of people

597
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: feel like you need to be you don't need to

598
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: be hostile, you're just you know, not willing to put

599
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: that foot forward yet. Yeah. Yeah.

600
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: And there's people that I know quite well, you know,

601
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm known for a bit and I still don't.

602
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: Like I said, yeah, I don't distrust them. But there

603
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: are people that that I and I'm like, I'm a

604
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: big baby too. If I fucking love someone, I love them,

605
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: and if they do something, I'm fucked. I'm like, oh fuck,

606
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: because I mean, nobody needs fucking batty harps to tell

607
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: them that loves a motherfucker.

608
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: And how are you when someone loses your trust? Like,

609
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: are you dumb?

610
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: Oh? If I don't trust them anymore, yeah, I distrust them.

611
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: I'm like I'm an elephant. I never forget never.

612
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: No, I'm like, nah, see, yeah, I mean it has

613
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: to be significant, Like if they fucked up accidentally or incidentally,

614
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: that's cool. But if they consciously did something, knowingly did

615
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: something and chose that, and it's have to be pretty bad.

616
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, I'm but like, even with the people

617
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: that have done shit to me over the time, I

618
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: don't hate anyone, like I don't I pretty much like

619
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: I hate things that people do, but I don't hate

620
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: humans like I just don't. I don't give them any

621
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: space in my head. You know, it's like, no, I

622
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: don't hate that person. I just genuinely don't fucking think

623
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: about them, Like I don't like they take up zero

624
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: percent of my emotional energy or focus.

625
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: You know.

626
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: It's like.

627
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire,

628
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: that's all.

629
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a sprinkle just then go sorry, it's all

630
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: I've got. I'm sixty one. Well I've got you did well,

631
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: love it, fuck and thank you very much.

632
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: Well what have you? What have you learned about you?

633
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: Not what have you learned, but what have you learned

634
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: you in the last year.

635
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: Or maybe maybe more than a year, because it's been

636
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: like you've been through, been through something that most people

637
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: will never go through.

638
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've learned that I'm not where near as resilient

639
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: as I used to be. Wow. And I really understood

640
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: that that came from, you know, the times where I

641
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: was in combat, the times where I was life or death,

642
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: you know, the whole career of life or death. I

643
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: realized I had two proactive layers of resilience being the

644
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: officer and being the leader. I had the mission and

645
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: then I had my team, and my head and heart

646
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: always had those two protective barriers where I was always

647
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: forward thinking, forward feeling before I was ever inside my

648
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: own heaven heart. And I've had to go through a

649
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: lot of this with some great support from some very

650
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: close friends and family, but it's really been a very

651
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: lonely time, and particularly a lot of those people who

652
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: you know, even my former military bosses and politicians, and

653
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 2: you know, I had former prime ministers on my podcast

654
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: when the time was good. You know, when I was

655
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: in combat in Afghanistan and if it looked like we

656
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: were in trouble, I could jump on the radio and

657
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: call in the finger of God, calling support, call and

658
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: the rest. And when I have picked up the phone

659
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: to ask for support, from even trying to afford the

660
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: legal costs through to you know, achieving real accountability and

661
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: help some of my soldiers along the way, you know,

662
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: it's been silent and it's been a really lonely time.

663
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: So I've appreciated that I am less resilient when I'm

664
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: by myself, and how I really need to invest more

665
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: in bloody lower keets, I need to invest more in

666
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: the people I keep around me, because literally I definitely

667
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: spent my time maintaining much more of a social friendship

668
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: group and not a lot of people who could really

669
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: be there for the hard times. And yeah, just it's

670
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: helped me really reassess what are my values, you know,

671
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: how I go and feel love and what I actually

672
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: need to make sure I don't hit rock bottom like

673
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: I kind of did a couple of times this last

674
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: few years as well.

675
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a relationship or you might have

676
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: had several where what you kind of wake up one

677
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: day and you go, oh, this is a transactional thing.

678
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, you know, where now I'm not

679
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm not valuable to them anymore. So I don't hear

680
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: from them. Oh that wasn't a friendship, that was some

681
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: kind of strategic arrangement.

682
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this has been look, I see my psychologists

683
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: psychiagist each week, and this has been a lot of

684
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: the sort of decompartmentalizing unpacking that I've gone through. Is

685
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: that particularly, you know, when I went from a place

686
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: of not being able to make friends in school to

687
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: having lots of friends in my military career and then

688
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: once leaving that, I've always been able to bring acts

689
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: of service as my value into friendships. I end up

690
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,959
Speaker 2: down the one instigating at a relationship where I feel

691
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: like I need to do things for people to be

692
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: transactional for people to maintain those connections, and I've been

693
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: chasing instead of attracting. So yeah, it's really been even

694
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: shifting that complete mindset and feeling relationships as opposed to

695
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 2: thinking or planning about relationships. That's something that I'm still

696
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: trying to work through myself.

697
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: M And what are you doing now, mate? Like, what

698
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: are you up to? How do you feel in your days?

699
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: What's your job? What's your focus as your attention?

700
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Veteran Games. We just completed the second

701
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: year of the Veteran Games on the Gold Coast. Next

702
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: year October will be October twenty five will be our

703
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: third year and it's just grown, It's doubled in size.

704
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: Veterangames dot Com check it out. It's an event I

705
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: came up with myself through my charity, and we're helping

706
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: the highest SAT risk demographic of veterans identified by the

707
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: Royal Commission. But we're having fun. We're getting people together,

708
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: forming teams, doing obstacle courses, doing all good stuff, and

709
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: then post my bourtcase when corporate's kind of like me again.

710
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: So I've been getting back into doing some keynotes and

711
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 2: some workshops intermitted. But I also spent a lot of

712
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: time this year overseas with my mates in the US

713
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 2: and taking a bit more personal time for myself. But yeah,

714
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, more travel, more engagements, get my book out,

715
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 2: and really work hard on the veteran games for October

716
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: next year.

717
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: Do you spend I speak about this idea or this

718
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: concept quite a lot with I spoke about this this

719
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: morning with somebody, the idea of spending two or three

720
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: days a year where it's just you with you, no phone,

721
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: no no one, no newspapers, no interaction, no How much

722
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: time do you spend alone where you're not distracted by

723
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: something and it's just you and your thoughts. Are you're

724
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: good at that or bad at that?

725
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 2: I can sit in my thoughts all day. That's actually

726
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: my issue. My weakness is being present in the moment

727
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: unless I'm really ripped into that moment through a period

728
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: of joy or through a period of achievement. So I can, Yeah,

729
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: my head will just sit there and plan, you know,

730
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: for decades and dynasties. Yeah, right right, Yeah, it's really

731
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's always I think my imagination, particularly

732
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: being a fat, lonely kid on the cat at home,

733
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: you know, back before they're on mobile phones and you're

734
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: waiting for someone to call on the landline. Yeah. Yeah,

735
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: my imagination has always been a play for me to

736
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: escape too. And then my military career my ability to plan,

737
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: but then particularly just continuously think about what ifs and

738
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: contingency plans and what happens here and to bring out

739
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: what might come. That's all my head's really good at.

740
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: But sometimes I just wish I could take it Bill

741
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: and switch it off and sit there and you know, meditate.

742
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: Meditation is my biggest issue. I have to go and

743
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: like watch the ocean or you know, play with a

744
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: dog or things like that. Yeah.

745
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that for you, of course, Craig Harp is

746
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: going to say this, but I'm guessing that really working

747
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: out is part of your therapy, is you know, part

748
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: of your anxiety reduction, stress management, emotional kind of wellness.

749
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: It really is, particularly like I love, I've incorporated much

750
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: more like yoga and pillarate's like low intensity stuff because

751
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,959
Speaker 2: I find my body winds up and gears up too quick.

752
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: But in particular going to the gym and just lifting

753
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: and doing like myop birtuby training, listening to music or

754
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: just having earphones in so people don't talk to me

755
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: and just listening to my own thoughts. It's fascinating how

756
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: that's where I do some of my best thinking. And

757
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: my friend Sam, who's a COO for the charity obways

758
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: like sending a mestersca. He's like, you're at the gym,

759
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: aren't you because just my thoughts. Well, I think just

760
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 2: doing something manual, you know again that brings you into

761
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: the moment and doesn't require you can't really overthink, you know,

762
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: doing your repetition, so you're trying to focus on my

763
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: muscle connection. It just enables some form of better alignment

764
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: in me that allows some thoughts to sort of flow. Yeah.

765
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: I talk about this idea, mate all the time, of

766
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: people finding the optimal version of their normal operating system.

767
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: Like everyone has a normal operating system. How you do life,

768
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: how you do food, how you do relationships, how you

769
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: do money, how you do career, whatever, What are the

770
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: things that you have to do to not lose your shit,

771
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean, apart from exercise, but like, what what's the

772
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: heston rah kind of operating system, physical, emotional, psychological, professional,

773
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: personal What are some of the non negotiables for you

774
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: to stay sane or as close to saying.

775
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: As you are? So this is it? Like I'm actually

776
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 2: pretty is the word? Low? Guy? Like, I don't need

777
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: a lot of fine trimmings, you know, I can you know,

778
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: I can rough. I don't really care. But I think

779
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 2: for me, at the end of the day, it's purpose.

780
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: It's has something to look to look forward to be that,

781
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: particularly for me having a social trip, you know, a

782
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: trip overseas or something, and the next sort of the

783
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: next knowing that I'm going to go away somewhere and

784
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: escape somewhere for a bit. I think it's something that

785
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 2: I find that I really really need because a big

786
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: fear for me is getting stuck and stagnant sort of

787
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: where I am. And a big part for me, mate,

788
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: like my nutrition is actually a really big grounding part

789
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: for me. I really struggled with sort of food as

790
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: a kid, and again in the military, you just sort

791
00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: of eat to fuel and you never really learn a

792
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: lot of about it, but particularly as I get older

793
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: and having a routine and regiment for my eating and

794
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: not you know, eating on the go or grabbing ship food,

795
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: because my body just responds and my mindset responds so

796
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 2: much to the food medicine that I put into it.

797
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 2: So most people know, even when I'm traveling, if there's

798
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: somewhere I can work out and I can get like

799
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: good clean food, I'm set. Like the rest the rest

800
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: of the routine can be chaos.

801
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: Is it there a petetic hang for you hanging out

802
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: with guys and girls that you've served with, like people

803
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: who have kind of been through a version of what

804
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: you've that seems to us fucking civilians like there's some special,

805
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: amazing no with everyone. But I listened to lots of

806
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: people who have served, and it's like there's this magic

807
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: that happens between you.

808
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: There really is. And the last four years, in particular

809
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: running my charity campaign for the Royal Commission all the rest,

810
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 2: like I get in undated and contacted and hang around

811
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: with veterans all the time, But at this point of

812
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: time in my life, I actually think I'm a bit

813
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: emotionally fatigued because I'm actually hyper cautious of constantly being

814
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: drawn back to what I have done, And there's actually

815
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: a point of me who wants to bring forward the

816
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: lessons learned and make sure that the pathway for the

817
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: next veterans isn't what I had to go through. But

818
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: I just from a mindset perspective, constantly being around veterans

819
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: these days and veteran issues isn't healthy for me. And

820
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 2: that's why I really am putting my energy into the

821
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 2: Veteran Games. When we get together for that long weekend,

822
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: it is it is on, and it is enjoyable and

823
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: it is great. And want to connect with people on

824
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 2: ANZAC Day, like little little shots in the arm are great.

825
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: But I whereas previously I've been completely immersed and surrounded

826
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: by it. There's a lot of trauma. There's a lot

827
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: of different people's journeys and different people's transitions from service

828
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: life to regular life. In particular, I find it very relatable.

829
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: Is great to lead about the good things, but in

830
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 2: particular what I've learned is particularly my journey's been so

831
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: unique because most of my soldiers who have got out

832
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: have gone on to have families and to have kids,

833
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: and I guess me being the only gay commando, I

834
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: haven't really got a lot of people like me who

835
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: connect with That's why I have my gay community, I

836
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: have my bedroommates. I kind of have to get little

837
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: bits and pieces from all over as opposed to being

838
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 2: able to sit in one place and get everything that

839
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: I need. That's what I've probably learned a lot more.

840
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: Are you literally the only gay commando that's that's public?

841
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, but like I mean statistically at

842
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: that moment, yes, yeah, and particularly the only gay commander officer,

843
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: like the only gay special Forces officer in Australia period,

844
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: which again I find so fascinating and I had I

845
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: don't want to go down this path, but just from

846
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 2: a mindset perspective, you all get it, like I can

847
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: take it on the ABC. It's meant to be like

848
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: the biggest friend to the rainbow community. And I'm literally

849
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: like the only openly gay Special Forces officer in Australia's history.

850
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: And as opposed to coming in and being a credit

851
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: to them, they choose to like attack me and pushing

852
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: and saying with the Marti Grad crew here in Sydney,

853
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 2: like I had to take a flaming sword to them

854
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: last year when they wanted to exclude all uniform police

855
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: from the parade based on one guy at a uniform

856
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: murdering his ex boyfriend. You know, it's like, yes, it's

857
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: these activists as opposed to personally on the side. I

858
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: get flooded with messages Craig and Tiff by just other

859
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: gay men who see me as a role model for them,

860
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: just because I present a different way of being gay

861
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 2: where I'm not fully defined by my identity, isn't fully

862
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: defined by my sexuality, and that is what I wish

863
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: I had for the fifteen years I was trying to

864
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: figure out what gay was. So yeah, you just got

865
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: to again that shift from wanting to be popular with everyone. Yes,

866
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: just I get most frustrated by a lack of opportunity

867
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: when there's like potential there. You know, I could be

868
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: turning all these things into good things and helping, you know,

869
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 2: mend the rift between I don't know, like I get

870
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: more support from the straight community. It's hilarious the amount

871
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: of straight guys reach out like, hey, mate, no homo,

872
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 2: but I think you bring inspirational and thanks bro.

873
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: No. I imagine starting a message with no homo.

874
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 2: But that's fine, I said some screenshots on day the

875
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: amount of misters I have heyesto, no homo, but.

876
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: I go we still hey, hat a little bit unsure,

877
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: but you know that's where i'd start, could be well, there.

878
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: Are some of those messages too, mate, it's like heyes,

879
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: like I've never thought i'd been gay, but some I'm

880
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: really attracted to you. I was like, cool, mate, have

881
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: a good day.

882
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's hilarious.

883
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: That's the word of information I don't really need, but

884
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

885
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,959
Speaker 1: So fucking funny.

886
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 2: We're going to wind up. I want to know. I

887
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: want to know.

888
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: Probably fame's not the right word, but you're in the

889
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: ballpark of fame, like you're well known. Is that good?

890
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 2: Is that bad? Do you fucking hate it? Do you

891
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: like it?

892
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: Is it practically good because it gives you leverage?

893
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 2: But how do you feel about that? Great question? Mate,

894
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 2: Because there was a period where I wanted to be famous.

895
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: There was a period where, particularly when I won the

896
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 2: Royal Commission, and I had nearly every political part except

897
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: for the Greens, you know, offer me to run for

898
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: the Senate Bornham and things like that, and I'm lucky

899
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: that I didn't become famous, because I probably would have

900
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 2: self destructed. And having gone through what I've been through

901
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 2: has been a real big wake up call. And it's

902
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 2: been that old the struggle between entitlement and responsibility, and

903
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: you know, whatever I do, whatever my profile is, as

904
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: long as I can use it responsibly, that's what matters.

905
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 2: But there is a lot to be said, particularly in Australia,

906
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 2: where the more public you are, the less enjoyable life

907
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: is because we do make mistakes. And my experiences at

908
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: the ABC have lifted me. Going. Fuck if I stumble

909
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: out of a club but like three or four o'clock

910
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: in the morning and you know, some guy takes a

911
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: picture or video on his iPhone, you know I'll get plasted.

912
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 2: But now I'm like, who cares, I'm fucking human and

913
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: I'm having fun. You know you're not going to You're

914
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,959
Speaker 2: not going to see me beating up anyone in the park.

915
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,919
Speaker 2: I'll just be dripping over my own feet. But yeah,

916
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: and it's also been interesting, crazy because someone had this

917
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 2: conversation the other day, like the reason why a lot

918
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: of people don't understand even though a famous piece like

919
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: I'm not a sports star I'm not a movie star,

920
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: I'm not anything. You know. My sort of small levels

921
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 2: of fame have come from just you know, social campaigns

922
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: and things like that, and it doesn't fit into a

923
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: box of fame that people are used to, so people

924
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: don't understand it. And I think I enjoy that. And

925
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: that's my whole thing, is like, you don't need to

926
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: be anything special other than like who you are, and

927
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 2: you know, act on what you believe in. I think

928
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 2: that's the most powerful message and I'd like to be

929
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: more inspirational in that regard than you know, famous. Famous

930
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: is definitely you know, I think that's an objective that

931
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: we shouldn't focus on. Fame is like a self serving objective.

932
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I'm with you. I think the idea

933
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 1: of fame ain't the fucking reality of it, and I think.

934
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: It doesn't play the bills made.

935
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: I think also, like especially now sound like an old person,

936
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: fuck it, But I think we confuse popularity, even which

937
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: is a popularity with love. It's like some of the

938
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: people that I've coached over the years, who are you know,

939
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: really well known household names some of them, some of

940
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: them you know, gorgeous, wealthy, famous, fucking miserable, like away

941
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: from the razzle dazzle, like can't sleep, you know, medicative

942
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: for anxiety and depression life. So the you know, from

943
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: the outside looking in razzle dazzle, but the inside out

944
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: you know dogs not everyone of course, but you know,

945
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: we have this idea that wow, if I could have

946
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: that and be there and you know, and then you

947
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: get there because you're trying to feel you know, emotional

948
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: and psychological or sociological holes with a fucking new face

949
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,919
Speaker 1: or some bigger biceps, or a new motorbike in my case,

950
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: because I'm an insecure idiot. So if I get all

951
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: the motorbikes just for if anyone wants to know, it

952
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: doesn't work. You know, it works a bit for you,

953
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: though Chiff doesn't.

954
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: It's working quite well until you said that.

955
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: I think it's sitting down. The biggest body of work

956
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 2: I think I've had to do myself is sitting down

957
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 2: and figuring out what actually makes me happy. Now I

958
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 2: know the stoics, so you're not meant to chase happiness.

959
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: But like otherwise, I'm a person who's used to chasing

960
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: success off achievements, and it's just an endless string and

961
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: when I got to La or a US. I have

962
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: great friends that are billionaires and all the rest, and

963
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: some of them are very happy. And I've seen other

964
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 2: people where all the money in the world just brings

965
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: more problems in the world, brings more responsibilities in the world.

966
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 2: So I think it's for me. It's been getting back

967
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: to values, love, languages, understanding what actually makes you happy.

968
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 2: One day we're all going to be old and saggy.

969
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: So while you enjoy your body while you can, but

970
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: it comes down to the personality and how you treat people,

971
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: you know, because karma is a bit and she remembers

972
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: and slaps hard. So yeah, I think a really important

973
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: thing has been defining what actually makes you happy, and

974
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 2: it can't be something you know, continuously extrinsic and achieving.

975
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm not a motorbike fan man, but

976
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: there's only so many motorikes you can get made exactly.

977
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: And when he said if I had a bad experience

978
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 2: with a motorbike once, I was riding on my mate's

979
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 2: farm down in Park's Peak Hill and about five pilmers

980
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 2: from home. I laid it on inside, cut the fuel

981
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: line and had to wearing a single cut myself up

982
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: and had to push this bike back five k's and

983
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: I pushed it through the fucking horse paddock and got

984
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 2: attacked by the fucking horses and everything. That day, I've

985
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 2: only ever ridden the quad bike. I don't do motorbikes,

986
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 2: to do quad bikes.

987
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: And he definitely doesn't do horses. And by the way,

988
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: if you're a horse.

989
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: I like, mate, I like horses. I appreciated that I

990
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: interrupted their domain, but as a fourteen year old kid,

991
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: I was in a world of and I was so

992
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: embarrassed and everything. Yeah, so that's my mobile story now, mate,

993
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: I don't know.

994
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: I love chatting to you. I wish we could have

995
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,959
Speaker 1: you on a regular basis, but you're too famous, do it.

996
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: Mate, I've got plenty of sightless to it. Mister seventeen

997
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: hundred podcasts.

998
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just and when you said old and saggy,

999
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: I didn't take it personally like.

1000
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: I said, I've been hearing your ads pumping on other podcasts.

1001
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 2: You're doing well, so keep up with the work, right.

1002
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm no you, mate, but I do what I can

1003
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: just quickly. If I don't know if you want any

1004
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: more followers or people to connect with you, but if

1005
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: per chance people want to follow you on the interwebs,

1006
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: how do they do that?

1007
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 2: Do it my website Heston Russell dot com especially for

1008
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 2: me to come and speak or I'll be on my

1009
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: book there soon and then mainly my Instagram, So I

1010
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: don't want to check much else. It's just at Heston

1011
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: Russell to U. S is two l's you've got with

1012
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: no Homo, So we'll go from there.

1013
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no Homo and he'll definitely lean in funk.

1014
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: I wish I could use that as the title, but

1015
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: somebody's going to kick up.

1016
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 2: Na I don't. It's not worth it.

1017
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, that's might fucking that might be my last

1018
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: day on the Nova platform?

1019
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: Where did harps go? And who knows? Take no Homo?

1020
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you say it, surely I'm allowed to use

1021
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 1: it as a title.

1022
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: Do we know up to you? Do we know the

1023
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: name of the Yeah, it's called Heston Russell and Unconventional

1024
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 2: Perspective and it's got a little subtitle that says Special

1025
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: Forces Sexuality and Suicide. I think we spoke about it.

1026
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 2: This is what when I had that plotty with you, Tip,

1027
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 2: I think you actually use that as the title. So yeah,

1028
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 2: it's broad ranging me but at Heston Russell and unconventional perspective,

1029
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 2: because again, what I've learned is all our lives. It's

1030
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 2: just our own perspective, and the story is mine. People

1031
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: might not agree with it, and it's a pretty controversial

1032
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 2: shit now and I can't wait.

1033
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: Well, I'm writing that down because that might be both

1034
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: the title of your book and the title of this episode.

1035
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: Well see, hey, mate, we say goodbye, but you're the best.

1036
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: We've both got a big brush on. I hope I.

1037
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 2: Can really appreciate it.

1038
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: I've got a big crush on. No, fuck it, I

1039
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: could be I'm not because I'm shipped with women. So

1040
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm the lowest to the party, gay guy and.

1041
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 2: Who never found the right one? Mate, just haven't found

1042
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: the right one. That's it. Don't chase the track. That's

1043
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: the new mantorer. Don't chase track.

1044
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: Okay, note to self. Cool, Thanks Tiff, Thanks Heston, thank.

1045
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: You, Thanks Greg and Tiff. Take care