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Speaker 1: I'll get our you, bloody champions, Welcome to another installing

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Speaker 1: the you project. It's me, It's fucking Harps. It's Tiff.

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Speaker 1: There we are. Four seconds in there's a swear word.

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Speaker 1: A few people are jumping out. Hi, Tim high Harps. Now,

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Speaker 1: who do you reckons more of a chance of getting

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Speaker 1: a cuddle? Me or you?

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Speaker 2: From our great game?

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Speaker 3: It breaks my heart.

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Speaker 1: It's me.

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Speaker 3: I think it's you.

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Speaker 1: I reckon. It's both of us. It's both of us,

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Speaker 1: and I think both of us would like a hug.

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Speaker 1: It's a pity. It's geographically impossible at the moment. Oh

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Speaker 1: look he's blushing, mate, how are you going?

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Speaker 2: Well, look I'm a cuddler, so I don't shake hand.

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Speaker 4: I'll take your hand, but I'll give you both a

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Speaker 4: cuddle regardless of orientation.

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Speaker 2: So there you go.

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Speaker 1: Were fan fantastic, fantastic. I am one of my mates.

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Speaker 1: Was in the gym last night sitting on the upright

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Speaker 1: vertical bench and he was doing shoulder press and he

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Speaker 1: had reasonably heavyweights. And I walked in and I sat

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Speaker 1: on I straddled him like fucking koala on a tree.

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Speaker 1: There it is to.

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Speaker 4: Showing a photo of this. That's amazing. Who was there

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Speaker 4: taking the photo?

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Speaker 1: Mate? So I straddled him like a koala on a

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Speaker 1: tree and it was fun. You know, I need everyone

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Speaker 1: needs a bit of love, mate.

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Speaker 2: Physical touch, the love language, mate, we need it.

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Speaker 1: What is your speaking of that book? Like you've obviously

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Speaker 1: read that book or you're at least you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: the love languages.

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Speaker 4: I used to teach it to the new Commando officers

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Speaker 4: after they passed the Commando selection course and.

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Speaker 2: Pass over all the scripture.

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Speaker 4: But replace the word love with motivational value, and it's

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Speaker 4: a way to sort of tap into some extra emotional intelligence,

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Speaker 4: particularly the special force of the world of needing to

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Speaker 4: win over and influence people.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So let's just let's just I didn't well,

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Speaker 1: actually didn't have a plan. As you know, I never

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Speaker 1: have a p It's good, here we go, So let's

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Speaker 1: just go through them. So quality time is one physical touch,

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Speaker 1: words of affirmation.

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Speaker 2: Give receiving gibs an act of service?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, acts of service. So let's start with you, boxer,

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Speaker 1: you fucking pugilist in the top left corner on my screen.

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Speaker 1: What what do you reckon? Your love language is? Actually?

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you what I think.

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Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I reckon yours.

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Speaker 1: Yours is from me, from me. What is love for me?

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Speaker 1: For you is words of affirmation.

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Speaker 3: That is correct.

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Speaker 2: How you receive love is words of affirmation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, from me.

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Speaker 2: She gives us.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm her mentor she wants, which everyone does. I'm

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Speaker 1: the same. She wants a people and a verbal hug

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Speaker 1: love a verbal she doesn't like. She doesn't like an

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Speaker 1: actual hug. She's you haven't heard me say this, but

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Speaker 1: she constantly when she's in the well anywhere. Really, she

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Speaker 1: wears a baseball cap with give us a hug and

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Speaker 1: a te a T shirt says, but fuck off.

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Speaker 3: Though that was Tim two point oh, this is Tiff

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Speaker 3: three point oh. And he's an interesting fact. If I

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Speaker 3: if my love language is actually reflective of me and

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Speaker 3: my animals, it's definitely physical touch, maybe just because there's two.

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Speaker 4: Remember there's too, so the way you feel love and

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Speaker 4: then the way you show love the two different love languages.

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Speaker 1: Usually Yeah, but you like being loved by animals because

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Speaker 1: they're not going to fucking break your heart and lie

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Speaker 1: to you and bullshit you, right, I mean that's the

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Speaker 1: same with everyone. That's everyone.

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Speaker 2: They're authentic they're actually authentic.

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Speaker 4: There's no ulterium motive except for maybe some food and

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Speaker 4: some hugs.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, did you get.

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Speaker 1: That thing on? I didn't send it to you. I

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Speaker 1: should send it to both of you. It's just this

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Speaker 1: dude talking about how horses communicate. This is irrelevant. Who

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Speaker 1: knows where we're going on this show, But like this

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Speaker 1: guy who's a genuine horse whisperer and he's talking about how,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically humans are predators and horses in the

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Speaker 1: wild are prey and so they you know, apart from

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Speaker 1: the fact that they don't speak human, we don't speak horse,

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Speaker 1: and so it takes them along like their love part

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Speaker 1: of their love languages being trust is being able to

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Speaker 1: trust humans and it takes them a long time. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: interesting love.

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Speaker 2: It was something in there.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we do a lot of equine therapy in

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Speaker 4: the veteran community to help people with trauma and stuff,

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Speaker 4: and it's you know, that trust and that connection.

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Speaker 2: I think that is the core part that really shines through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot, like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: say that that once you have a connection with a horse,

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Speaker 1: it's almost supernatural. There's something special going on. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think horses are smarter than we think.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think that's also a respect piece there, because

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Speaker 4: like a horse would actually kick the shit out of you,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's actually yeah, there's not. You don't have

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Speaker 4: this physical superiority to them as we do most animals,

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Speaker 4: especially in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what about your love language? TIF Like, what

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Speaker 1: do you what do you get from like your mum

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Speaker 1: and your dad? What is it?

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Speaker 3: I reckon my mom? Is I reckon gifts? She likes

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Speaker 3: she likes giving gifts? What's that called?

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Speaker 1: What do you want from? What do you want?

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Speaker 2: Just the same? Words of affirmation is usually a thing? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What about how do you show love to them? How

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Speaker 2: do you like showing love to people?

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Speaker 3: Don't mate, punch in the face.

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Speaker 4: Come on, Like what makes you feel good? Do you

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Speaker 4: like doing things for people?

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Speaker 3: Do things for people?

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Speaker 2: Acts of service? I thought you might like.

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Speaker 3: Giving gifts, but I get a bit stressed about giving

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Speaker 3: the right gift. So I hate Christmas. I hate buying

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Speaker 3: gifts because I want the gift to be specially and

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Speaker 3: always feel stressed about it.

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Speaker 1: I reckon that acts of services you like towards me?

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Speaker 1: Because like sometimes like we might do something like this, mate,

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Speaker 1: where we have a chat and then and now a

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Speaker 1: later Tif will send me a reel that she's made

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Speaker 1: of this, which is really good that she didn't have

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Speaker 1: to do. It's not she doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Have a pick.

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Speaker 4: I definitely pick Tiff. As an access service I'm the same.

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Speaker 4: I'm an access service person. I like to feel value

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Speaker 4: by doing things for people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have this innate thing to protect people that

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Speaker 1: I love. I don't know, I think maybe that falls

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Speaker 1: into acts of service, Like I'm very almost like stupidly

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Speaker 1: territorial about people I love.

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Speaker 4: No, I'm the same. It's a protecting instinct. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you've had a quiet So you've had a

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Speaker 1: quiet year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been quite interesting the last

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Speaker 2: twelve months. Almost not much on, not much on.

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Speaker 4: Ah, honestly, it's you know, there's been there's been sprints,

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Speaker 4: but there's been a lot of bliant time as well.

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Speaker 2: Been it's been an interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I thought twenty twenty was really.

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Speaker 4: Going to be my year, and instead it's been one

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Speaker 4: of the biggest learning curve of the year that I've

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Speaker 4: ever had a long in time.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, what have you learned?

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Speaker 4: Well, so my court case against the ABC finished October

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Speaker 4: last year, and I won. You know, they were found

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Speaker 4: the ABC and two of their journalists were personally found

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Speaker 4: guilty of defamation. And you know, I want to pay out,

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Speaker 4: and they did it so badly. They had to pay

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Speaker 4: for all of my legal costs. It costs millions and

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Speaker 4: millions of dollars attacks Player fund. But I sort of

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Speaker 4: just then expected the everything else to flow through.

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Speaker 2: I just expected.

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Speaker 4: What was the original thing I asked for where I

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Speaker 4: took them to court was an apology for my soldiers,

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Speaker 4: for our families, and for me and my families. And

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Speaker 4: getting an apology has literally been the bridge too far

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Speaker 4: for them.

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Speaker 2: I had to then, you know, I had a few

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Speaker 2: ages up my sleeve.

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Speaker 4: They published this story, they added gunshots to this combat footage,

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Speaker 4: they changed it, they added circles, They did all these

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Speaker 4: incredible things that I didn't think I'd have to then

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Speaker 4: pull out of the back as well as take them

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Speaker 4: to the federal court.

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Speaker 2: But I did a whole documentary with Channel seven Spotlight

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Speaker 2: revealed it all.

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Speaker 4: And all that's happened is for the next six months

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Speaker 4: has been just as what I say is the biggest

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Speaker 4: campaign of gas lighting and ask covering I've ever seen.

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Speaker 4: And again, even when they had to fess up and say, yes,

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Speaker 4: we did edit the footage, they literally issued an apology

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Speaker 4: to all the members of the Second Commander Regiment, which

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Speaker 4: I love, but refused to issue any personal apology to

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Speaker 4: Heston Russell. It's a classic media play, you know, don't

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Speaker 4: give someone an attention by actually saying their name. And

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Speaker 4: I get it if you know, we were enemies, if

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Speaker 4: it was someone a company that had money to be made,

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Speaker 4: But it's our ABC, it's the ABC IU tip everyone.

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Speaker 2: We literally pay our taxes to boards. So I've really

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Speaker 2: gone through this bracter in well. I went through this

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Speaker 2: period where I was like.

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Speaker 4: All of these morals and values and standards that I

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Speaker 4: was brought up with and trained in the military, are

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Speaker 4: they really just only relevant for the military? Am I

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Speaker 4: actually completely out of place in regular society? Is my

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Speaker 4: mindset going to life after service completely dysfunctional? Am I

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Speaker 4: just shitting myself on the foot by having these expectations of,

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Speaker 4: you know, people simply being good, people having integrity, being honest.

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Speaker 4: But then sort of the pendulum has shifted back because

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Speaker 4: I'm stopped on the streets by just lovely people every day,

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Speaker 4: police officer day having a coffee just saying hey, you

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Speaker 4: know I saw your okay, so listen to podcasts this.

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Speaker 2: I want you to know like you have our support.

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Speaker 4: But for me and my mastery is leadership. You know,

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Speaker 4: I was trained to be a Special Force as leader,

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Speaker 4: to spend four years studying leadership before I was allowed to.

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Speaker 2: Be in charge of anyone.

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Speaker 4: And I've just really been disillusioned by the leadership of

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Speaker 4: not a single person from Defense speaking out even when

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Speaker 4: we proved the ABC added gunshots to footage. You know,

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Speaker 4: not a single politician, you know, Albow stood next to

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Speaker 4: me when we won the campaign for the Royal Commission

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Speaker 4: when it was good for him and boats. You know,

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Speaker 4: not a single person from the ABC willing to apologize

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Speaker 4: to Heston Russell and his family. So, you know, I

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Speaker 4: went through a period where, you know, I just went

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Speaker 4: through a big depressive period to be honest, and I

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Speaker 4: just wanted to get out of Australia. I went over

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Speaker 4: to the US for a few months. I tried to

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Speaker 4: build a new life there. I got a new boyfriend

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Speaker 4: that all fell through in a very rapid weight as well.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's been a fascinating year. But I'm back,

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Speaker 4: I'm energized, and I'm putting all my efforts and energy

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Speaker 4: into my book that I'm looking to probably self publish

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Speaker 4: in the next few months to be able to get

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Speaker 4: this all out in detail. And perhaps he who has

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Speaker 4: the last word, has the last laugh or something, how

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Speaker 4: does that thing go?

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Speaker 1: Who knows who has the last laugh wins or something?

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Speaker 2: What are you think?

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Speaker 1: I think? You know? It is really interesting because I

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Speaker 1: find this culturally too, like where I call them cults

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Speaker 1: of thought, mate, cults have thought, where people live in cognitive, emotional,

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Speaker 1: political echo chambers.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, what the what the fuck is.

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Speaker 1: Wrong with going? Hey? I fucked up or we fucked up?

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Speaker 1: What is so hard about going? I used to think

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Speaker 1: A and now I think B. But the truth is

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Speaker 1: that people me included I get I probably fuck up

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Speaker 1: three things an episode, and we've done seventeen hundred, so

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Speaker 1: that's five thousand fuck ups conservatively. I'll probably say something

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Speaker 1: stupid or incorrect, right, But I know that, and I

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Speaker 1: own it and I acknowledge it, and I'm still flawed.

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Speaker 1: But why why do you think the ABC can't just

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Speaker 1: go Look, we got it wrong. We're real sorry, what

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Speaker 1: is that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I'm with you, great, Like mistakes and failure

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Speaker 4: are what we spent most of our time on in

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Speaker 4: the military, learning the lessons learn and putting them into

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Speaker 4: practice and not do it again, and you know, writing

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Speaker 4: them down and being.

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Speaker 2: Public with them, because that's where it growth.

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Speaker 4: It's just come down to and even what the judge

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Speaker 4: said at the end of my verdict, it's come down

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Speaker 4: to this cultural war and come down to this attitude

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Speaker 4: where the ABC adopts any criticism as a fence and

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Speaker 4: vigorously attacks and defends their position as opposed to objectively

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Speaker 4: being what they're supposed to be. Like we're having this

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Speaker 4: conversation this last week, the new chair of the ABC,

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Speaker 4: Kim Williams, stood up in front of the Press Council

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Speaker 4: and took a swipe at Joe Rogan, you know, talking

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Speaker 4: about misinformation disinformation like the biggest podcasts in the world,

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Speaker 4: and then the journalists were asking him, you know, how

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Speaker 4: can you make that comment up of your organization literally

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Speaker 4: has been found to have you change footage, added gunshots.

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Speaker 4: And the biggest issue to me, mate, has been that

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Speaker 4: they appointed one of their own former executives to do

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Speaker 4: this independent inquiry, which by even the term independent is

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Speaker 4: not independent, you know, and they said that it was

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Speaker 4: an error. Someone accidentally added extra gunshots into this footage.

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Speaker 2: Like it's just it's.

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Speaker 4: Insane and all that I'm learning. I've learned two things,

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Speaker 4: you know. One camera is a bit and she slaps

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Speaker 4: hard when she comes back around.

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Speaker 2: Two and two.

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Speaker 4: Like these people, literally, like you said, mate, in an

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Speaker 4: echo chamber. This dude, Kim Williams, he stood up and said,

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Speaker 4: you know, can't stand Joe Rogan. I don't listen to

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Speaker 4: him at all, but then proceeded to tell everyone why

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Speaker 4: Joe Rogan was so bad. You're the head of a

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Speaker 4: media organization who just admitted that you haven't personally listened

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Speaker 4: to or researched this guy, but you're able to make

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Speaker 4: an opinion that you're going to tell the entire press

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Speaker 4: councils ahead of our ABC. So these people are in

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Speaker 4: their own echo chambers. They do think they're out of breach.

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Speaker 4: They're this boudoir elite that just need a reality check,

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Speaker 4: and I really do feel that is coming soon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like we need some kind of this

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Speaker 1: is this is a reach, but almost like a spiritual

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Speaker 1: revolution where people just go, you know what, you get

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Speaker 1: stuff wrong, We get stuff wrong, you know, and they

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Speaker 1: like specifically to Joe Rogan. There's not too many people

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Speaker 1: in Australia who've heard more Joe Rogan than me. Right,

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Speaker 1: he's my go to. I was listening to Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: before I started a show, and that was This has

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Speaker 1: been around for seven years. I've probably listened to two

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Speaker 1: thousand of his his twenty three hundred or so episodes

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Speaker 1: and agree with everything sometimes, you know, when they're sitting

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Speaker 1: on talking about dope endlessly or comedy that is, or

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like, I don't agree with everything, but

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Speaker 1: you cannot accuse him of not having diverse conversations with

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Speaker 1: diverse and being relatively I love.

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Speaker 4: It you hear some of the conversations hit there going like,

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Speaker 4: you know, I never thought that way, I never agreed

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Speaker 4: with that, but you provided me with a different perspective,

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Speaker 4: like it's actually an open progressive conversation one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: And even with you know, it's like he had Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump on and people like, oh, of course, I had

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Speaker 1: fucking Donald Trump and then he spoke about invite and

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Speaker 1: by the way, everyone that's not political. This is just

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Speaker 1: about then he offered Kamala to come on, and they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can interview her, not in your studio, not for

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Speaker 1: three hours. You have to come to us. You have

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Speaker 1: to be in this environment and here's a list of

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Speaker 1: thirty five things you can't talk about, and it's going

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Speaker 1: to be sixty minutes, and so it was all going

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Speaker 1: to be orchestrated. He's like nah, and then people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: why didn't you get the other side. It's like, I

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Speaker 1: offered her to come in, but there were so many

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Speaker 1: stipulations and rules that it wouldn't have been an organic conversation,

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Speaker 1: which is what he does.

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Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm with her.

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Speaker 4: I was just I was literally over in the US

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Speaker 4: for Halloween, the election and my birthday was a very

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Speaker 4: very unique time. And I live in a blue from

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Speaker 4: when I have all my friends in blue states over there,

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Speaker 4: and it was really a fascinating time. But yeah, mate,

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Speaker 4: for yeah, the head of the ABC that we all

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Speaker 4: pay for, that's meant to be an unbiased, mutual organization

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Speaker 4: to even stand up and take a swipe at the

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Speaker 4: biggest podcast in the world, like, how is that smart?

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Speaker 2: How does that reflect on Australia. How does that pditively

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Speaker 2: impact his job?

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Speaker 4: Like it's just for me, it's just insane, Like this

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Speaker 4: guy is just up in the clouds anyway, And then

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Speaker 4: that helps me really understand why the organization is doing

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Speaker 4: what it's doing, you know, because you know, leadership and

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Speaker 4: culture all starts from the top and close through.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's like me or you standing up talking about fuck,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about fucking neurosurgery and going you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think, Well, we don't fuck because you're not a

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Speaker 1: neurosurgeon and you've never done an operation, Craig, and you're

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Speaker 1: a dumbass. Like if you, like, if he'd been away

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Speaker 1: and listened to one hundred episodes or even ten episodes

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Speaker 1: of Rogan all the way through, you know, then maybe,

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Speaker 1: but as he said, he's never listened. Like, dude, you're commenting,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people say that to me. I

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Speaker 1: don't need to listen to him. I'm like, how the

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Speaker 1: fuck you have an opinion about someone you've never met?

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Speaker 1: In inverted comments, I love it.

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Speaker 2: My favorite these days at Denzil Washington.

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Speaker 4: What's he saying if you listen or read to the media,

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Speaker 4: if you don't listen or read to the media, you're

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Speaker 4: not informed.

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Speaker 2: If you do listen or read or listen to them,

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Speaker 2: you're misinformed or unimportant. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: He's fantastic, but yeah, we're getting away from what is

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Speaker 4: meant to be their core role and function. And what

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Speaker 4: I love in this diversity of free speech world Western

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Speaker 4: world is you know, just like Joe Rogan, you don't

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Speaker 4: like all these episodes, but it's there to provide that variety,

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Speaker 4: and you can tune in, your tune out, and there's

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Speaker 4: nothing to stop you from going and fact checking yourself.

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Speaker 4: Like even this government Disinformation and Misinformation Bill which got

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Speaker 4: defeated thankfully, you know, they excluded the ABC and others

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Speaker 4: from it, and so many of my friends even in

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Speaker 4: the current parliament, the current sentiment are just like Senate,

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Speaker 4: you've literally just had the tax payer under ABC be

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Speaker 4: found to have done what is by default misinformation and

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Speaker 4: you're going to exclude them from this.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: What I've again taken faith from is that government might

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Speaker 4: keep thinking that they can.

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Speaker 2: Provide the parental solutions to the people.

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Speaker 4: At the end of the day, more and more people

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Speaker 4: are just being more and more free thinking, you know,

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Speaker 4: and even this bill about banning teenagers from social media,

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Speaker 4: you know, bros and coins. But at the end of

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Speaker 4: the day, I just have a blatant issue with people

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Speaker 4: in Parliament thinking that they are better parents, that they're

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Speaker 4: better at on both the nutrition, they better advisers on

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Speaker 4: how we should live our lives as opposed to what

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Speaker 4: their core function is meant to be. And that's like

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Speaker 4: progressing our country and making our standard of life better

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Speaker 4: and easier and more enjoyable and all the rest. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you just have to watch them and see the edicts

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Speaker 4: carry on with its school yard school yard bullshit.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Well, no, no, it's all mate. There's no digression

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Speaker 1: because there's no plan. There's no fucking direction on this show.

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Speaker 1: It's the it's the verbal version of a dog with

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Speaker 1: three dicks this show. So we're okay with that. It's

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Speaker 1: the conversational the conversational dog with three dicks. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. I was watching you, you know,

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Speaker 1: I watched the Spotlight show doc and but you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been watching you mate, amazing, and I try not to.

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Speaker 1: I think I sent you a few things, but I

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Speaker 1: try not to because I know you're going to be

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Speaker 1: and undated with shit.

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Speaker 2: But what I appreciated, mate, I get to everything. I

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Speaker 2: get to everything, I really do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Actually what I wanted was like, you're clearly very

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Speaker 5: resilient and you clearly have got you know, because of

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Speaker 5: your training, and I would think of personality and your nature.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got really good skills to be able

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Speaker 1: to deal with shit, you know, as any soldier needs

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Speaker 1: to be able to deal with discomfort and pain and

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Speaker 1: uncertainty and all those things that human beings don't like,

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Speaker 1: the unknown, the uncertain, the unfamiliar, and the uncomfortable. That's

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Speaker 1: where you live as a soldier. But this is a

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Speaker 1: different type of pain, isn't it going through like public

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Speaker 1: scrutiny where people are publicly saying, essentially, you're a piece

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Speaker 1: of shit who did all these bad things and it's

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Speaker 1: absolutely untrue, but you can't, you know, like and of

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Speaker 1: course you've been vindicated and it's all bullshit and they

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Speaker 1: fuck up and they were dishonest. We get, but there

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Speaker 1: was a period of time where people didn't know that, right,

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Speaker 1: people like that.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's a great observation.

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Speaker 2: I love to dive into this because you know.

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Speaker 4: My whole psychology sociology came from being a pretty unpopular

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Speaker 4: fact kid at school to being very successful in the military.

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Speaker 4: But in particular, what I was able to achieve during

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Speaker 4: my time throughout my military career was to be very

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Speaker 4: good at my job and very liked by everyone as well.

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Speaker 2: Like I always put in the work to be good

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Speaker 2: at my job and a good person.

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Speaker 4: That's the quote and ethought that my sort of dad

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Speaker 4: gave me from his time in the military. And even

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Speaker 4: when we talk about and lecture about and teach leadership,

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Speaker 4: where you often separate leadership from likability to people focused on.

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Speaker 2: Being liked and impact their job.

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Speaker 4: But I was always able to be both because I

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Speaker 4: always maintained a lie. My guys even said, there's hesto

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Speaker 4: and there's hest and like you know, I was able

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Speaker 4: to really put in those boundaries. And throughout my entire

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Speaker 4: career in special courses, no one knew what you did

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Speaker 4: in your outside life. You didn't have social media, your

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Speaker 4: family on knew bits and pieces, but you had all

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Speaker 4: of the maslows hierarchicive needs, plus all of your love

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Speaker 4: languages catered for by the incredible team that you deployed

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Speaker 4: five times to the Middle East and would literally die

439
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 4: for because you knew that's what was required, and you

440
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 4: love them like you know brothers and sisters. And my

441
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 4: love language is my love language. The way I received

442
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 4: love had always been acts of service, had always been

443
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 4: sorry equality time, because I love to do things for people,

444
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 4: simply being able to be around people and not feel

445
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 4: like I have to do things for them, and have

446
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 4: people who just wanted.

447
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 2: To hang around with me be with me.

448
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 4: You know, I never was alone once in my career,

449
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 4: and then particularly through the last two years, my love language,

450
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 4: the way in which I need to feel love is

451
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 4: literally changed to words of affirmation because I.

452
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 2: Have had my.

453
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 4: Identity broken down and learned in front of me by

454
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,719
Speaker 4: those with the means to do so, and being unable

455
00:21:58,760 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 4: to do so myself.

456
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 2: And I've had more people.

457
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 4: Particularly in the gay community here in Sydney wherever, more

458
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 4: people come out with hatred towards me online and whatnot

459
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 4: who've never actually met me, and that affected me so

460
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 4: much because I'd never been so accustomed to people not

461
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 4: liking me. Because I genuinely do everything with the right reasons,

462
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 4: for the right reasons and responsibly in my opinion, and

463
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 4: I put myself last in the order of a lot

464
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 4: of things that I do. So I then had to

465
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 4: go through this period, particularly at the end of the

466
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 4: court case, you know, when I was able to prove

467
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 4: that I was right the whole time in reassessing what

468
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 4: was value to me, decluttering my life from all the

469
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 4: people who left when the times were bad, and not

470
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 4: only allowing a handful back in when the times were good,

471
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 4: you know, and yeah, and really understanding more and more

472
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 4: about myself. And it's been a really interesting rebuilding phase

473
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 4: from that. But end of the day, and now I'm

474
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 4: at a point where I just appreciate you're never going

475
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 4: to please everyone, do things for the right reasons, and

476
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 4: stop caring so much what people think. And this is

477
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 4: the one thing I say to people when they say, oh,

478
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 4: so and so said something about you, I'm like, as

479
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 4: have they ever met me?

480
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: No? Then, like, I don't give a shit.

481
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 4: If I've generally done something or had a mistake, that's great,

482
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 4: Give me a call, give me a text, you know,

483
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 4: shoot me a DM. Otherwise I do not care about

484
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 4: your opinion.

485
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: It's so interesting how much people that don't know us

486
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: or love us, you know, it can affect us. And

487
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I think I'm a fair bit better

488
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: than I used to be. But I might get a

489
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: hundred comments on something that are good and one that

490
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: goes you or I can't. I'm like, that's all I

491
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: pay attention to. And I'm like, I can't sleep because

492
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: some of.

493
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: I love heart. I put a love heart on it.

494
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 2: Now I just put a love heart on it. You know.

495
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: I did a few months ago. I did what I

496
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: call a private workshop, which just means it's for twenty

497
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: twenty five people, not a big workshop. So it was

498
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: like half a day and anyway, it was probably five dudes, ladies,

499
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: and so we spend about five hours together. We spend

500
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: a bit of time together. We do a deep dive

501
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: and everyone gets to talk and ask questions and it's good.

502
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: You know, there's tears and snot and hugs and it's

503
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: pretty good experience. And one of the ladies goes to me,

504
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: just it was in the context of the conversation. She goes,

505
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: my ex husband hates you. She's just like that hates you.

506
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: I go, oh, goody, what's his name? And she tells me.

507
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: I go, I don't, I go, do I know him?

508
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: She goes, oh, no, you've never met. I go, right, so,

509
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: have I had a chat with him? She's like, no, no, no,

510
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: you never know. But he hates you. I'm like, oh, okay,

511
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: why does he hate me? He goes, She goes, because

512
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: he thinks you broke up our marriage because I started

513
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: listening to you.

514
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: Right, wow, I mean that I've got layers on it.

515
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 3: Yep.

516
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, so he was a prick and then you

517
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, that is hilarious, like she started

518
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: standing up for her self, and and because she stood

519
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: up for her self, and because she wouldn't be treated

520
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: like a doormat and nothing to do with him, he

521
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: wasn't fold at all. Like the person responsible for the

522
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: demise of his marriage was the the blok who's got

523
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm like, how fucking stupid are you? And

524
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: how self awareness do you not have?

525
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: Mate? That's the key part. So when people say that

526
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: to me, you know, so and so hates you, like cool?

527
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: Have ever let me know?

528
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 4: My response is I think, well, that's more of a

529
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 4: reflection on them than it is me, because I would

530
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 4: never make up an opinion on someone without meeting them.

531
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: But what I've also learned is because I've definitely been

532
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 4: in that place as well. People attack because they're either

533
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 4: protecting or projecting something that's going on with them. You know,

534
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the energy we're putting

535
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: out is coming from a place. So if someone's unhappy

536
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 4: with me or angry with me, or do you know,

537
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 4: go on Twitter, mate and see there are angry people

538
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 4: on there.

539
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: Like I now to sit back and go.

540
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 4: Hey, there's something else going on behind the scenes here,

541
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 4: and that's not my issue, that's their.

542
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: You know, you want to look like an idiot putting

543
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: these tweets.

544
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 4: They'll come back and you know, haaunt you in five

545
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: or ten years time, and you go for a job,

546
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 4: go nuts.

547
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: Especially after going through the court. Some of the best

548
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: tweets came from.

549
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 4: The ABC what's her brigger name of data dumped it

550
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 4: because she's just a waste.

551
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: She was the she was the head of the investigations.

552
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 4: I can't remember her name, but anyway, she said, yeah, no,

553
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 4: I never said this, I never said this, And then

554
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 4: my lawyer just pulls out like her Twitter account and says, well,

555
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: these sweets say you did, and she literally.

556
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: With court lying in the stand it was okay.

557
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: So when when she said I didn't say that, and

558
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: then he produced evidence that she did say that. What

559
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: did she do? Then?

560
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, my barrister's sucras ant, what is this?

561
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: She was just a hearty.

562
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 4: She was a terrible, terrible person. She was just every

563
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: answer she had she was like spitting fire out of

564
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 4: the you like you just to watch it.

565
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: You know.

566
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 4: I was sitting in the back of the court and like,

567
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 4: my barister that morning had run me through what she's

568
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 4: going to do. And she's like, so, miss Puccini, Joanne Puccini,

569
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 4: that's it. She's she's now the head of ABC's investigations.

570
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: It incredible.

571
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 4: She's like, so you never said that this article was

572
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 4: linked to this one or was never talking about Heston Russell.

573
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: And she's like, yeah, that's correct.

574
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 4: She's like cool, Okay, here are your tweets that say

575
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 4: Mark Willisy upheld Heston Russell.

576
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah.

577
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 4: And you just watched her drop like three or four

578
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: inches and exhale in the chair and it's just like gotchaw.

579
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: My embarrasster too, just looks over her shoulder at me.

580
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: It just gives me a week and I'm trying to

581
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: maintain my composure.

582
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 4: You know, people thinking that and this is embarrasses me.

583
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 4: In the DAT She's like, the truth comes out. The

584
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 4: one thing you'll learn about, you know, good lawyers and

585
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 4: legal process is truth comes out. Yeah, and that was

586
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 4: even incredible. Mate, Like this, I'm saying, this is all

587
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: the stuff that's come out. The ABC head of in

588
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: investigations unit was caught lying on the stand.

589
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: But hey, you know, she's probably going to be promoted

590
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 2: next week. Who cares.

591
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: Hey, I want to talk to you about trust. Tell

592
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: me about it. I'm just going to go trust. Just

593
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: if on that for me before I ask a specific question.

594
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 4: Griff On that my personal journey with trust has always

595
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 4: been I trust people too far.

596
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: I trust. I historically trust people first, and then you

597
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: lose my trust.

598
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 4: And again, when we spoke about this shift in the

599
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 4: last year or so, people really no need to earn

600
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 4: my trust because as soon as I trust.

601
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: I think the two values for me that are very interlinked.

602
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 4: I trust and loyalty, Like if I trust you, then

603
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 4: you have my loyalty. And I think loyalty is probably

604
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 4: my strongest value and skill set I'd bring to any

605
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 4: sort of relationship.

606
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think I did it the other way around?

607
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: I oh, okay, no, maybe I did know. Maybe I

608
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: was yeah, yeah, we don't have to be the same, mate, No, no, no,

609
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: But I did you ask me once if I if

610
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: you trusted me, and I said not completely because it

611
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: was early day, or you said you did know?

612
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: You said you did, and I was like, right, But

613
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: I've had trus.

614
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I've I've had people that I've known

615
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: for a while, like you know, and there's no tragedy

616
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: here or no self pity. But like over the years,

617
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: especially in my twenties and thirties, I trusted, like, not

618
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: only trusted, loved some people, like would have pretty much

619
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: walked over a fucking broken glass for them who did

620
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: some horrible shit, right, none of it life threatening, but

621
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: horrible nonetheless. And so for these like these days, I

622
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: just takes me quite a while. Doesn't mean I distrust someone.

623
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: It just means I don't trust them yet. You know,

624
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm kind of almost on the fence because that, yeah,

625
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: especially when you.

626
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, that's important. That's an important

627
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: back to there.

628
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 4: Mate, Like you said, there's there's not trust and distrust,

629
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 4: there's just this area in the middle where you just

630
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 4: I'm sure, yes, a lot of people feel like you

631
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 4: need to be you don't need to be hostile, you're

632
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: just you know, not willing to put that food forward yet.

633
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

634
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

635
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: And there's people that I know quite well, you know,

636
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm known for a bit, and I still don't.

637
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: Like I said, yeah, I don't distrust them.

638
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: But there are.

639
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: People that that I and I'm like, I'm a big

640
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: baby too. If I fucking love someone, I loved them,

641
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: and if they do something, I'm fucked. I'm like, oh fuck,

642
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: because I mean, nobody needs fucking Batty Harps to tell

643
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: them that loves a motherfucker.

644
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: How are you when someone loses your trust? Like, are

645
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: you done?

646
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: Oh? If I don't trust them anymore?

647
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, distrust them. I'm like, I'm an elephant. I never

648
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: forget never.

649
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: No, I'm like, nah, so yeah, I mean it has

650
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: to be significant. Like if they fucked up accidentally or incidentally,

651
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: that's cool. But if they consciously did something, knowingly did

652
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: something and chose that, and that's have to be pretty bad.

653
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, I'm but like, even with the people

654
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: that have done shit to me over the time, I

655
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: don't hate anyone like I don't. I pretty much like

656
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: I hate things that people do, but I don't hate

657
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: humans like I just don't. I don't give them any

658
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: space in my head. You know, it's like, no, I

659
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: don't hate that person. I just genuinely don't fucking think

660
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: about them, like I don't, like they take up zero

661
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: percent of my emotional energy or focus. You know. It's like.

662
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 6: I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire,

663
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 6: that's all. Might just a sprinkle just then go sorry,

664
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 6: it's all I've got. I'm sixty one. Well I've got.

665
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: Did well? Love it?

666
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: Fuck and thank you very much. Well what have you?

667
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: What have you learned about you? Not what have you learned,

668
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: but what have you learned you in the last year

669
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe more than a year, because it's been

670
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: like you've been through, been through something that most people

671
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: will never go through.

672
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've learned that I'm where near as resilient as

673
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 4: I used to be. And I really understood that that

674
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: came from, you know, the times where I was in combat,

675
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 4: the times where I was life or death, you know

676
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 4: the whole career of life or death. I realized I

677
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 4: had two proactive layers of resilience being the officer and

678
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: being the leader. I had the mission and then I

679
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 4: had my team, and my head and heart always had

680
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: those two protective barriers where I was always forward thinking,

681
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: forward feeling before I was ever inside my own heaven heart.

682
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 4: And I've had to go through a lot of this

683
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 4: with some great support from some very close friends and family,

684
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: but it's really been a very lonely time, and particularly

685
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: a lot of those people who you know, even my

686
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 4: former military bosses and politicians, and you know, I had

687
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 4: former prime ministers on my podcast when the time was good.

688
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: You know, when I was in combat.

689
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 4: In Afghanistan and if it looked like we were in trouble,

690
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 4: I could jump on the radio and call in the

691
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: finger of God, calling support called and the rest. And

692
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 4: when I have picked up the phone to ask for support,

693
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: from even trying to afford the legal costs through to

694
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 4: achieving real accountability and help some one my soldiers along

695
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 4: the way, you know, it's been silent and it's been

696
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 4: a really lonely time. So I've appreciated that I am

697
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 4: less resilient when I'm by myself, and how I really

698
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 4: need to invest more in bloody lower keets, I need

699
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: to invest more in the people I keep around me

700
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 4: because midtaly, I definitely spent my time maintaining much more

701
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 4: of a social friendship group and not a lot of

702
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: people who could really be there for the hard times.

703
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 4: And yeah, just it's helped me really reassess what are

704
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 4: my values, you know, how I go and feel love

705
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 4: and what I actually need to make sure I don't

706
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 4: get bottom like I kind of did a couple of

707
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 4: times this last few years as well.

708
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a relationship or you might have

709
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: had several where what you kind of wake up one

710
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: day and you go, oh, this is a transactional thing.

711
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, you know, where now I'm not

712
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm not valuable to them anymore. So I don't hear

713
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: from them. Oh that wasn't a friendship, that was some

714
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: kind of strategic arrangement.

715
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this has been look, I see my psychologists

716
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 4: psychologists each week, and this has been a lot of

717
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 4: the sort of decompartmentalizing unpacking that I've gone through.

718
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: Is that particularly, you know.

719
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: When I went from a place of not being able

720
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 4: to make friends in school to having lots of friends

721
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 4: in my military career and then once leaving that I've

722
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: always been able to bring acts of service as my

723
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 4: value into friendships, I end up on the one instigating

724
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 4: a relationship where I feel like I need to do

725
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 4: things for people to be transactional for people to maintain

726
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 4: those connections, and I've been chasing instead of attracting. So yeah,

727
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 4: it's really been even shifting that complete mindset and feeling

728
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: relationships as opposed to thinking or planning about relationships.

729
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: That's something that I'm still trying to work through myself.

730
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: And what are you doing now, mate? Like, what are

731
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: you up to, how do you feel in your days?

732
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: What's your job? What's your focus as your attention?

733
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Veteran Games.

734
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 4: We just completed the second year of the Veteran Games

735
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 4: on the Gold Coast. Next year October will be October

736
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 4: twenty five will be our third year and it's just grown.

737
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 4: It's doubled in size. Veterangames dot Com check it out.

738
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: It's an event I came up with myself through my charity,

739
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 4: and we're helping the highest SAT risk demographic of veterans

740
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 4: identified by the Royal Commission.

741
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: But we're having fun.

742
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 4: We're getting people together, forming teams doing obstacle courses, doing

743
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 4: all good stuff, and then post my courtcase when Corporate's

744
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 4: kind of liked me again. So I've been getting back

745
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 4: into doing some keynotes and some workshops intermitted.

746
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 2: But I also spent a lot of time.

747
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 4: This year overseas with my mates in the US and

748
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: taking a bit more personal time for myself. But yeah,

749
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, more travel, more engagements, get my book out,

750
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 4: and really work hard on the Veteran games for October

751
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 4: next year.

752
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: Do you spend I speak about this idea or this

753
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: concept quite a lot, Witheople. I spoke about this this

754
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: morning with somebody, the idea of spending two or three

755
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: days a year where it's just you with you, no phone,

756
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: no no one, no newspapers, no interaction, no how much

757
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: time do you spend alone where you're not distracted by

758
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: something and it's just you and your thoughts? So you're

759
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: good at that or bad at that.

760
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 2: I can sit in my thoughts all day.

761
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: That's actually my issue. My weakness is being present in

762
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 4: the moment unless I'm really ripped into that moment through

763
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 4: a period of joy or through a period of achievement.

764
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: So I can, Yeah, my head will just sit there

765
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 4: and plan, you know, for decades and dynasties. Yeah, right right, Yeah,

766
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 4: it's really I don't know, it's always I think my imagination,

767
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: particularly being a fat, lonely kid on the cap at home,

768
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 4: you know, back before they're on mobile phones and you're

769
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 4: waiting for someone to call on the landline.

770
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

771
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, my imagination has always been a for me to

772
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 4: escape to. And then my military career my ability to plan,

773
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: but then particularly just continuously think about what ifs and

774
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 4: continguency plans and what happens here and to bring out

775
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: what might come.

776
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: That's all my head's really good at.

777
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 4: But sometimes I just wish I could take it bill

778
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 4: and switch it off and sit there and you know, meditate.

779
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: Meditation is my biggest issue.

780
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 4: I have to go and like watch the ocean or

781
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 4: you know, play with a dog or things like that.

782
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

783
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that for you, of course, Craig Harp is

784
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: going to say this, but I'm guessing that really working

785
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: out is part of your therapy, is you know, part

786
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: of your anxiety reduction, stress management, emotional kind of wellness.

787
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: It really is, particularly.

788
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 4: Like I love, I've incorporated much more like yoga and pilates,

789
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 4: like low intensity stuff because I find my body winds

790
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: up and gears.

791
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: Up too quick.

792
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 4: But in particular going to the gym and just lifting

793
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: and doing what my heo birtuby training, listening to music

794
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 4: or just having earphones in so people don't talk to

795
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 4: me and just listening to my own thoughts. It's fascinating

796
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 4: how that's where I do some of my best thinking.

797
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 4: And my friend Sam, who's a COO for the charity,

798
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 4: obviously like sending a mesters, but he's like, you're at

799
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 4: the gym, aren't you, it's just my thoughts. Well, I

800
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 4: think just doing something manual, you know, again that brings

801
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 4: you into the moment and doesn't require you can't really overthink,

802
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 4: you know, doing your repetitions. You're trying to focus on

803
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 4: my muscle connection. It just enables some form of better

804
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 4: alignment in me that allows some thoughts to sort of flow. Yeah.

805
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: I talk about this idea, mate all the time, of

806
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: people finding the optimal version of their normal operating system.

807
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: Like everyone has a normal operating system. How you do life,

808
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: how you do food, how you do relationships, how you

809
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: do money, how you do career, whatever, What are the

810
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: things that you have to do to not lose your shit,

811
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean apart from exercise, but like, what what's the

812
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: heston a kind of operating system, be physical, emotional, psychological, professional, personal,

813
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: What are some of the non negotiables for you to

814
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: stay sane or as close to saying as.

815
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: You can see? This is it? Like I'm actually pretty?

816
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: Is the word low? Guy?

817
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 4: Like, I don't need a lot of fine trimmings, you know,

818
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 4: I can you know can rough.

819
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: I don't really care. But I think for me, at

820
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's purpose.

821
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 4: It's had something to look to look forward to be that,

822
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 4: particularly for me having a social trip, you know, a

823
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 4: trip overseas or something, and the next sort of the

824
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 4: next knowing that I'm going to go away somewhere and

825
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 4: escape somewhere for a bit. I think it's something that

826
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 4: I find that I really really need because a big

827
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 4: fear for me is getting stuck and stagnant sort of

828
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 4: where I am. And a big part for me, mate,

829
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: like my nutrition is actually a really big grounding part

830
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 4: for me. I really struggled with sort of food as

831
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 4: a kid, and again in the military, you just sort

832
00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 4: of eat to fuel and you never really learn a

833
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: lot of about it, but particularly as I get older

834
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 4: and having a routine and regiment for my eating and

835
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 4: not you know, eating on the go or grabbing ship food,

836
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 4: because my body just responds and my mindset responds so

837
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 4: much to the food medicine that I put into it.

838
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 4: So most people know, even when I'm traveling, if there's

839
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 4: somewhere I can work out and I can get like

840
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 4: good clean food, I'm set. Like the rest the rest

841
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: of the routine can be chaos.

842
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: Is it? They're a pstutic hang for you, hanging out

843
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: with guys and girls that you've served with, like people

844
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 1: who have kind of been through a version of what

845
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: you that seems to us fucking civilians like there's some

846
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: special amazing not with everyone, but I listen to lots

847
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: of people who have served, and it's like there's this

848
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: magic that happens between you.

849
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: There really is.

850
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 4: And the last four years in particular running my charity

851
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 4: campaign for the Royal Commission all the rest, like I

852
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 4: get inundated and contacted and hang around with veterans all

853
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 4: the time, But.

854
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: At this point of time in.

855
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 4: My life, I actually think I'm a bit emotionally fatigued

856
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 4: because I'm actually hyper cautious of constantly.

857
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: Being drawn back to what I have done.

858
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 4: And there's actually a point of me who wants to

859
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 4: bring forward the lessons learned and make sure that the

860
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 4: pathway for the next veterans isn't what I had to

861
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 4: go through. But I just from a mindset perspective, constantly

862
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 4: being around veterans these days and veteran issues isn't healthy

863
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 4: for me. And that's why I really am putting my

864
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 4: exit energy into the Veteran Games. When we get together

865
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 4: for that long weekend, it is on and it is

866
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 4: enjoyable and it is great, and want to connect with

867
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 4: people on ans that day, like little counts, little shots

868
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 4: in the arm are great. But whereas previously I've been

869
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 4: completely immersed and surrounded by it, there's a lot of trauma.

870
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: There's a lot of different people's journeys and different people's

871
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 4: transitions from service life to regular life.

872
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: In particular, I find it very relatable.

873
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 4: Is great to lead about the good things, but in

874
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 4: particular what I've learned is particularly my journey has been

875
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 4: so unique because most of my soldiers you've got out

876
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 4: have gone on to have families and to have kids,

877
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 4: and I guess me being the only gay commando, I

878
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 4: haven't really got a lot of people like me who

879
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 4: connect with That's.

880
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: Why I have my gay community, I have my bedroommates.

881
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 4: I kind of have to get little bits and pieces

882
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: from all over as opposed to being able to sit

883
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 4: in one place and get everything that I need.

884
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: That's what I've probably learned a lot more.

885
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: Are you literally the only gay commando that's that's public?

886
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, but like I mean statistically yes, yeah,

887
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 4: and particularly the only gay commander officer, like the only

888
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 4: gay Special Forces officer in Australia period, which again I

889
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 4: find so fascinating. I had I don't want to go

890
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 4: down this path, but just from a mindset perspective, you

891
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 4: all get it. Like I can take it on the ABC.

892
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: It's meant to be like the biggest friend into the

893
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: rainbow community. And I'm literally like the only openly gay

894
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 4: special Forces officer in Australia's history. And as opposed to

895
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 4: coming in and being a credit to them, they choose

896
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 4: to like attack me and push it and saying with

897
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 4: the Marti Grad crew here in Sydney, like I had

898
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 4: to take a flaming sword to the last year when

899
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: they wanted to exclude all uniform police from the parade

900
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 4: based on one guy at a uniform murdering his ex boyfriend.

901
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: You know, it's like, yes, it's these activists as opposed

902
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 4: to personally on the side. I get flooded with messages

903
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 4: Craig and Tiff by just other gay men who see

904
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 4: me as a role model for them, just because I

905
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 4: present a different way of being gay where I'm not

906
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 4: fully defined by my identity, isn't fully defined by my sexuality,

907
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 4: and that is what I wish I had for the

908
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 4: fifteen years I was trying to figure out what gay was. So, yeah,

909
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 4: you just got to again that shift from wanting to

910
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 4: be popular with everyone. Yes, yeah, just I get most

911
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 4: frustrated by a lack of opportunity when there's like potential there.

912
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 4: You know, I could be turning all these things into

913
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 4: good things and helping, you know, mend the rift between

914
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 4: I don't know, like I get more support from.

915
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: The straight community. It's hilarious the amount of straight guys

916
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 2: reach out like, hey, mate, no homo, but I think

917
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 2: you bring inspirational and you thanks bro.

918
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: No I imagine starting a message with no homo but

919
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: oh that's fine.

920
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 4: I say some screenshots on day, the amount of mysters

921
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 4: I have, heyesto, no homo, but.

922
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: I go stilly, a little bit unsure, but you know

923
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: that's where i'd start, could.

924
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: Be well, there are some of those messages too, mate.

925
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, like, I've never thought I've been gay,

926
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 4: but something I'm really attracted to you.

927
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: I was like, cool, mate, have a good base.

928
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah what oh that's hilarious.

929
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 4: That's worth of information I don't really need, but I

930
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 4: appreciate it.

931
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: So fucking funny. We're going to wind up. I want

932
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: to know. I want to know. Probably fame's not the

933
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: right word, but you're in the ballpark of fame, like

934
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: you're well known. Is that good? Is that bad? Do

935
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: you fucking hate it? Do you like it? Is it

936
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: practically good because it gives you leverage? But how do

937
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: you feel about that?

938
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: Great question? Mate?

939
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 4: Because there was a period where I wanted to be famous.

940
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 4: There is a period where, particularly when I won the

941
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 4: Royal Commission, and nearly every political part except for the Greens,

942
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 4: you know, offer me to run for the Senate for

943
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 4: theam and things like that. And I'm lucky that I

944
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 4: didn't become famous because I probably would have self destructed.

945
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 4: And having gone through what I've been through has been

946
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 4: a real big wake up call. And it's been that hold,

947
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 4: the struggle between entitlement and responsibility and you know, whatever

948
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 4: I do, whatever my profile is, as long as I

949
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 4: can use it responsibly, that's what matters. But there is

950
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 4: a lot to be said, particularly in Australia, where the

951
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 4: more public you are, the less enjoyable life is because

952
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 4: we do make mistakes. And my experiences of the ABC

953
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 4: have left me going fuck. If I stumble out of a

954
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 4: club at like three or four o'clock in the morning

955
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 4: and you know, some guy takes a picture or video

956
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 4: on his iPhone, you know I'll get plasted.

957
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: But now I'm like, who cares. I'm fucking human and

958
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 2: I'm having fun. You know you're not gonna You're not

959
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 2: going to see me beating up anyone in the park.

960
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: I'll just be dripping over my own feet.

961
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 4: But yeah, and it's also been interesting, crazy because someone

962
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 4: had this conversation the other day, like the reason why

963
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't understand even whole a famous

964
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 4: piece like I'm not a sports star, I'm not a

965
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 4: movie star, I'm not anything you know, my sort of

966
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 4: small levels of fame have come from just you know,

967
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 4: social campaigns and things like that, and it doesn't fit

968
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 4: into a box of fame that people are used to,

969
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 4: so people don't understand it.

970
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 2: And I think I enjoy that, and that's my whole thing,

971
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: is like, you.

972
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 4: Don't need to be anything special other than like who

973
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 4: you are, and you know, act on what you believe in.

974
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 4: I think that's the most powerful message, and I'd like

975
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 4: to be more inspirational in that regard than you know, famous.

976
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 4: Famous is definitely you know, I think that's an objective

977
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 4: that we shouldn't focus on.

978
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: Fame is like a self serving objective.

979
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I'm with you. I think the idea

980
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: of fame ain't the fucking reality of it, and I think.

981
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: It doesn't play the bills made.

982
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: I think also, like especially now sound like an old person,

983
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: fuck it, But I think we confuse popularity, even which

984
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: is a popularity with love. It's like some of the

985
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: people that I've coached over the years, who are you know,

986
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: really well known household names some of them some of

987
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: them you know, gorgeous, wealthy, famous, fucking miserable, like away

988
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: from the razzle, dazzle like can't sleep, you know, medicative

989
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: for anxiety and depression life. So the you know, from

990
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: the outside looking in razzle dazzle, but the inside out,

991
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: you know dog not everyone of course, but you know,

992
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: we have this idea that wow, if I could have

993
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: that and be there and you know, and then you

994
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: get there because you're trying to feel you know, emotional

995
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: and psychological or sociological holes with a fucking new face

996
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: or some bigger biceps, or a new motorbike in my case,

997
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: because I'm an insecure idiot. So if I get all

998
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: the motorbikes just for if anyone wants to know, it

999
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: doesn't work. You know, it works a bit for you,

1000
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: though chief doesn't working quite well until you said that.

1001
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: I think it's sitting down.

1002
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 4: The biggest body of work I think I've had to

1003
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 4: do myself is sitting down and figuring out what actually

1004
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 4: makes me happy.

1005
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: Now.

1006
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 4: I know the stoics say you're not meant to chase happiness,

1007
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 4: but like otherwise, I'm a person who's used to chasing

1008
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 4: success off achievements and it's just an endless string. And

1009
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 4: when I got to La or a US, I have

1010
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 4: great friends that are billionaires and all the rest, and

1011
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 4: some of them are very happy. And I've seen other

1012
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 4: people where all the money in the world just brings

1013
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 4: more problems in the world, brings more responsibilities in the world.

1014
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: So I think it's for me.

1015
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 4: It's been getting back to values, love, languages, understanding.

1016
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: What actually makes you happy. One day we're all going

1017
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: to be old and saggy.

1018
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 4: So while you enjoy your body while you can, but

1019
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 4: it comes down to the personality and how you treat people,

1020
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 4: you know, because Karma is a bitch and she remembers

1021
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 4: and slaps hard. So yeah, I think a really important

1022
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 4: thing has been defining what actually makes you happy, and

1023
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 4: it can't be something you know, continuously extrinsic and achieving.

1024
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 4: And I mean, I'm not a motorbike fan, man, but

1025
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 4: there's so many motikes you can get made exactly. And

1026
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 4: when he said if I had a bad experience with

1027
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 4: a motorbike once, I was riding on my mate's farm

1028
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 4: down in Park's Peak Hill and about five kilometers from home.

1029
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 4: I laid it on inside, cut the fuel line and

1030
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 4: had to wearing a single cut myself up and had

1031
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 4: to push this like back five k's and I pushed

1032
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 4: it through the fucking horse paddock and got attacked by

1033
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 4: the fucking horses and everything that day. I've only ever

1034
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 4: ridden the quad bike. I don't do motorbikes, to do

1035
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 4: quad bikes.

1036
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: And he definitely doesn't do horses. And by the way,

1037
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: if you're a horse.

1038
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 2: I like, mate, I like horses.

1039
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 4: I appreciated that I interrupted their domain, but as a

1040
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 4: fourteen year old kid, I was in a world of

1041
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 4: and I was so embarrassed and everything.

1042
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's my motbile story.

1043
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: Now, mate, I don't know. I love chatting to you.

1044
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: I wish we could have you on a regular basis,

1045
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: but you're too famous.

1046
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 4: Do it, mate, I've got plenty of tight less to

1047
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 4: do it busy one, mister seventeen hundred podcasts.

1048
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just And when you said old and saggy,

1049
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: I didn't take it personally like I.

1050
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 4: Said, I've been hearing your ad pumping on other podcasts.

1051
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 2: You're doing well, so keep up with the work, right.

1052
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm no you, mate, but I do what I can

1053
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: just quickly. If I don't know if you want any

1054
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: more followers or people to connect with you, but if

1055
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: per chance people want to follow you, on the interwebs.

1056
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: How do they do that?

1057
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 4: Do it my website Hesteron Russell dot com, especially if

1058
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 4: you're going to come and speak, or I'll be on

1059
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 4: my book there soon and then mainly my Instagram, so

1060
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 4: I don't really.

1061
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: Check much else.

1062
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 4: It's just at Heston Russell to us is two l's

1063
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,720
Speaker 4: you got with no Homo.

1064
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 2: So we'll go from there.

1065
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no Homo and he'll definitely lean in funk.

1066
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: I wish I could use that as the title, but

1067
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: somebody's going to kick up.

1068
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 2: Nah, I don't, it's not worth it.

1069
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, that's my fucking That might be my last

1070
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: day on the Nova platform? Where did Harps go? And

1071
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:26,479
Speaker 1: who knows?

1072
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: Take no Homo?

1073
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you say it, surely I'm allowed to use

1074
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 1: it as a title.

1075
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: Do we know up to you?

1076
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 4: Do we know the name of the Yeah, it's called

1077
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 4: Heston Russell and Unconventional Perspective and it's got a little

1078
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 4: subtitle that says Special Forces Sexuality and Suicide. I think

1079
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 4: we spoke about it. This is what when I had

1080
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 4: that plotty with you, Tip, I think you actually use

1081
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 4: that as the title. So yeah, it's broad ranging, but

1082
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 4: at Heston Russell and unconventional perspective, because again, what I've

1083
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 4: learned is all our lives. It's just our own perspective,

1084
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 4: and the story is mine, and people might not agree

1085
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 4: with it, and it's a pretty controversial shit now and.

1086
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 2: I can't wait.

1087
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: Well, I'm writing that down because that might be both

1088
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: the title of your book and the title of this episode.

1089
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: We'll see. Hey, mate, we say goodbye, but you're the best.

1090
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: We've both got a big brush on. I hope I.

1091
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: Can really appreciate it.

1092
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: No, I've got to be crush, I know, I fuck it.

1093
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: I could be. I'm not because I'm shipped with women.

1094
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: So maybe maybe I'm the lowest to the party, gay

1095
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: guy and who.

1096
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: Haven't found the right one? Mate, just haven't found the

1097
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: right one. That's it. Don't chase the track. That's the

1098
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: new mantwer. Don't chase the track.

1099
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: Okay, note to self. Cool, Thanks Tiff, Thanks Heston, thank you.

1100
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 2: Thanks Greig and Tiff. Take care,