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Speaker 1: Changes went through to the NDIS late last week through

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Speaker 1: Federal Parliament. The aim is to save a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: because I was staggered to read. At forty nine billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: the NDIS costs more than the aged care system around

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Speaker 1: thirty six billion, Medicare at thirty two billion, funding for hospitals,

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Speaker 1: federal government thirty billion, the PBS Pharmaceutical Benefit scheme around

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Speaker 1: twenty billion, and the NDI is sitting at just under

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Speaker 1: fifty billion. That is unreal. You've heard many times about

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Speaker 1: roots in the system and people claiming things that shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: You'd argue be claimed cruisers, sex work, that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing costs in terms of making claims, things that might

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Speaker 1: cost you far less if it wasn't NDIS related. The

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Speaker 1: same item costs three four, five times more or more,

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Speaker 1: and we wonder why it's blowing out shortened federal ends. Minister,

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Speaker 1: mister short and good morning, thank you for your time.

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Speaker 1: Obviously these changes much needed.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, without being pedantic, it's still a big

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Speaker 2: amount of money. The scheme is probably going to cost

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Speaker 2: under forty two billion dollars this year. We've managed to

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Speaker 2: reduce objection. But having said that, it's a scheme that's

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Speaker 2: changing lives. So it's when it works well, which it

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Speaker 2: does for a lot of people. It's doing great, But

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Speaker 2: basically it's been allowed to grow like Topsy without proper

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Speaker 2: payment scrutiny, with insufficient sort of legislative swim lanes if

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Speaker 2: you like. And what we're putting in place after a

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Speaker 2: twelve month review with thousands of people and recommendations to

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Speaker 2: improve the quality of the outcomes for participants, make sure

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Speaker 2: that the people for whom the scheme was designed to

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Speaker 2: getting the right support. But also I want to make

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Speaker 2: sure it's there for the future, and so I've got

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Speaker 2: to get rid of the ruders and the shanks now

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Speaker 2: a lot of service providers of good people before they

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Speaker 2: start following me on social media and so being mean

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Speaker 2: about all service providers. But let's just tell the truth.

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Speaker 2: Some people are having a lend of the system and that's.

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Speaker 1: Not what it was for no, absolutely, And you've made

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Speaker 1: that point if these changes don't go through. And this

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Speaker 1: is in response to the Greens saying it's despicable what's

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Speaker 1: being done and the Greens spokesperson for disability claiming people

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Speaker 1: will die as a result of these changes, is that fair.

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Speaker 2: No, that's not fair at all. And for the Greens,

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Speaker 2: they live in this marvelous world where money just grows

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Speaker 2: on trees, and actually they're doing a disservice to people

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Speaker 2: disability in two ways. I mean, there's three options for

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Speaker 2: this scheme, scrap it, do nothing, or do what we're doing.

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Speaker 2: And the Green's basically it's all just too hard reality.

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Speaker 2: They just say, oh, well, any changes sellout. Well that's

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Speaker 2: not right. I helped set the scheme, help campaign for

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Speaker 2: the scheme to be created. But I'll be honest, and

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Speaker 2: from twenty thirteen to twenty twenty two there are no

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Speaker 2: proper aiment systems checking of invoices. You wouldn't have a

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Speaker 2: forty billion dollar organization where ninety two percent of the

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Speaker 2: people submitting the invoices the service providers are unregistered and

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Speaker 2: we don't know who they are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So under the changes now there are a list

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Speaker 1: of for instance, prescribed items that can be claimed if

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Speaker 1: somebody has something outside that is that did they have

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Speaker 1: to prove they needed.

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Speaker 2: What they Well, first of all, the scheme isn't designed

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Speaker 2: that you can have anything you want. Is there things

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Speaker 2: which you would have just acquire in the ordinary line

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Speaker 2: of business and the ordinary business of life. Now you

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Speaker 2: don't get it. It doesn't play for your school fees,

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Speaker 2: or your or your groceries. It was never meant to

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Speaker 2: do that. The other thing is you don't use the

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Speaker 2: ndis if there's another service system providing support. For instance,

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Speaker 2: if you need a snoring a seapack machine to help

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Speaker 2: you with snoring, that's a Medicare item. If there's something

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Speaker 2: where I need to go to the outpatient's water the

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Speaker 2: Adelaide hospital, that should be dealt with by the Adelaide Hospital.

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Speaker 2: So there's things which other systems provide which will never

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Speaker 2: intended to be covered. There's things in the ordinary course

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Speaker 2: of life which you were never meant to get. The

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Speaker 2: aim of the items you get is that things would

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Speaker 2: help you adjust because of your disability. So we've put

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Speaker 2: in a clause once we amendment, because that's how the

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Speaker 2: parlem works it debate. It is that it is possible,

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Speaker 2: in certain circumstances that something which is prohibited you might

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Speaker 2: be able to argue as value for money and it

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Speaker 2: delivers the same thing. I mean, the sort of example

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of, but I don't want this is sumpet litigation.

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Speaker 2: But to illustrate for listeners is you might have to

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Speaker 2: get very expensive shoes because of the nature of the

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Speaker 2: disability with your feet. But it might be that you

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Speaker 2: just need six pairs of runners across a period of time,

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Speaker 2: which is actually cheaper than some very special bespoke shoes.

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Speaker 2: So common sense will prevail based on evidence. But this

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Speaker 2: scheme was never intended. Once you've got a severe and

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Speaker 2: profound disability to pay for everything. It's to pay for

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Speaker 2: your care as it's to pay for your assist of technology.

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Speaker 2: It's to be things which allow you to participate in

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Speaker 2: society and not be locked away and hidden away.

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Speaker 1: You know the roughts on this, and there'd be so

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Speaker 1: many examples, but I heard one the other day. A

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Speaker 1: man called Stephanon told me just on Sunday about his son.

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Speaker 1: His son is down. He's an adult now, but would

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Speaker 1: go on camps with a leading disability provider and the

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Speaker 1: camp it was a Friday night. You go off Friday afternoon,

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Speaker 1: get picked up Sunday afternoon, back home, two nights away.

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Speaker 1: Two hundred dollars was the weekend with the Ndis that

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Speaker 1: cost over two thousand dollars?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that drives me wild. I've already put in. I

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Speaker 2: didn't need this legislate I put in. I sat down

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Speaker 2: with the Australian Competition Commissioner at Triple Ceed and we

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Speaker 2: found some budget from It is now illegal to charge

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Speaker 2: a person for a service on the INDI is more

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Speaker 2: than you would charge for that identical service for a

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Speaker 2: person without an NDAs package. That is now illegal. And

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Speaker 2: I've written to every participant. You know, I got some

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Speaker 2: service providers said that I'm demonizing them. I'm not. But please,

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Speaker 2: if a mum has to cancel an appointment, you know,

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Speaker 2: three days out because her child's not well and he's

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Speaker 2: got a severe disability, don't charge them a higher cancelation

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Speaker 2: fee than they would be you or me. Canceling a

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Speaker 2: sort of petty venality is taking advantage of people disability

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Speaker 2: and the tax payer and gives it a bad name.

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Speaker 2: And that's what you're describing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've shadowed more reforms. What are they going to be?

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Speaker 2: Well, one thing I will say to the disability sector,

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Speaker 2: because there are some of them being we've done by

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Speaker 2: a few of the Greens and whatever stuff they spelled,

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Speaker 2: is that we do a lot of code design. The

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Speaker 2: insurance care is run by the National Disability Insurance Agency.

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Speaker 2: We've got twenty three co design groups. What we're going

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Speaker 2: to do is we're going to say we said that, okay,

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Speaker 2: we want to do a new way of preparing your budget,

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Speaker 2: which is more flexible, gives person more choice and control.

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Speaker 2: It's going to take us twelve to eight en months

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Speaker 2: to design that. We've got to talk to people disability.

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Speaker 2: We want to look at a various range of how

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Speaker 2: we assess someone's needs. We're going to need to train

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Speaker 2: up the workforce for that. There's a lot of homework

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Speaker 2: to be done with people disability, with the service providers,

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Speaker 2: some of the things which change soon. We want to

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Speaker 2: just be clear and help people on the scheme know

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Speaker 2: what you can and can't spend money on. But we

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Speaker 2: also want to make sure that our payment system we

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Speaker 2: have the power where there's a tiny minority of plans

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Speaker 2: being generally manipulated by some intermediaries. We don't have the

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Speaker 2: investigative powers which we should have to get to the

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Speaker 2: bottom of it. People literally don't have to answer our

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Speaker 2: phone call after months and years, and that's not on

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Speaker 2: We've proposed that if it's older than two years, will

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Speaker 2: now no longer get paid you know, you've got two

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Speaker 2: years to put your claim in, but no longer. We're

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Speaker 2: also saying that what we're seeing is this pattern where

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Speaker 2: and I think it was sometimes we get an initial

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Speaker 2: plan wrong and people or sometimes your electric wheelchair just

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Speaker 2: breaks down and you need to ask for a variation.

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Speaker 2: Within the life of the plan, the money gets expended

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Speaker 2: more quickly than you expected. But sometimes what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: is that it's almost like an automatic top up that

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Speaker 2: if you spend all your money, we just have to

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Speaker 2: top you up. We're presented with this fad of complet Oh, well,

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Speaker 2: the plan manager, the money's gone. You can't leave this

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Speaker 2: vulnerable person on their own. But we get sort of

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Speaker 2: almost this situation where the money goes quickly, it hasn't

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Speaker 2: been well managed, and then all of a sudden we said, well,

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Speaker 2: you can't leave this person, you know, to their own devices.

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Speaker 2: So we want to have more ability to work in

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Speaker 2: real time with people so we can see what's happening

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Speaker 2: and why, so we don't get to these dreadful situations.

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Speaker 2: One good thing we're doing is there's some story in

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Speaker 2: one of the papers today saying, oh, there's the agency

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Speaker 2: is raising about sixty five million dollars in debt. That's

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Speaker 2: out of forty billion dollars. So excuse me, we're not

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Speaker 2: exactly you know, we're not exactly the ruthless sort of

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Speaker 2: debt police here, and in our budgets we don't budget

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Speaker 2: for recovering debt. But there's probably a few hundred people

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Speaker 2: who spend it on the wrong thing or a given

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Speaker 2: wrong advice. And we haven't had the criteria though in

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Speaker 2: the past, to take account of person's disability. If someone's

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Speaker 2: got a serious psychosocial condition and you know, they make

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Speaker 2: a mistake, we haven't been allowed to take into account

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Speaker 2: there you know, their disability. Now we can, So some

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Speaker 2: of the naysayers really need to stop catastrophizing and recognizing

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Speaker 2: the biggest catastrophe for the ndias is we don't stop

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Speaker 2: the rules, if we don't stop the people having a

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Speaker 2: lend of it, if we don't demand better outcomes for

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Speaker 2: the money that we're paying. We want better quality out

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Speaker 2: comes for people.

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Speaker 1: And otherwise it won't exist long term if you don't

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Speaker 1: do this sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: That's right?

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Speaker 1: Do you think though? The changes raise concern amongst recipients

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Speaker 1: people who can qualify for it, What does this mean?

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Speaker 1: For me moving forward, and you can understand the nature

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Speaker 1: of that, and.

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Speaker 2: Oh listen, I probably should have said it that at

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Speaker 2: the very outset. I understand that if you're a person

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Speaker 2: with disability, if you're a family raising a person with

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Speaker 2: a disability. But like, life's not straightforward, and when people

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Speaker 2: talk about change, they hear I'm going to lose something,

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Speaker 2: and life in many cases been in battle. Can I

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Speaker 2: just reassure those people? One, we are budgeting that even

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Speaker 2: with these improvements, the scheme's still going to grow by

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Speaker 2: about eight percent. We are assuming in all our forecasts

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Speaker 2: that more people will go on the scheme. What we're

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Speaker 2: trying to do is slow the rate of growth. It's

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Speaker 2: not a cut. In the last year of the LIBS,

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Speaker 2: the cost of the scheme blew out by twenty three percent.

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Speaker 2: We've got it down to increasing only eighteen percent, but

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Speaker 2: I still need to get that down. The number of

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Speaker 2: people who went on the scheme increased in the last

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Speaker 2: year of our predecessors by fifteen percent. The number of

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Speaker 2: people going on to the scheme now is increasing by

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Speaker 2: only eight percent. We got to make sure the service providers,

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Speaker 2: and there's many good ones that we know what they're doing,

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Speaker 2: and that we know what we're paying for. We've got

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Speaker 2: to make sure that people know the rules and we've

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Speaker 2: also got to make sure that we're focusing a lot

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Speaker 2: more on the outcome of the supports than perhaps has

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Speaker 2: been given attention to in the past. And we want

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Speaker 2: to get rid of the brooks.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely childhood autism. Where does that sit in because that's

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Speaker 1: been one of the areas of growth, hasn't it.

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Speaker 2: It has, And we're getting to know about autism more

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Speaker 2: and again a couple of bits of the misinformation there's

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Speaker 2: some people on the fringes to say somehow the government

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Speaker 2: saying we can cure autism. Autism is a factor life.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to cure anyone. We're just trying to

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Speaker 2: provide the best interventions what we know and Australia is

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Speaker 2: a leading nation in research and early intervention. We're very

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Speaker 2: lucky to have that level of research. Is that the

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Speaker 2: earlier we can identify a precious babies having a non

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Speaker 2: standard developmental journey, the more that we can offer them support.

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Speaker 2: But what we want to do and A. Manda Rishworth's

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Speaker 2: working on this outside the scheme and Peter Melonaskis has

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Speaker 2: been great and nat Cook for example, so South Australia

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Speaker 2: is well representing these debates. Is when you realize that

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Speaker 2: your child is perhaps not developing in a standard way,

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Speaker 2: that's when we need to be really give you help.

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Speaker 2: But when we talk to you about giving you options,

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Speaker 2: we need more options than just the full orchestra of

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Speaker 2: the NDIS. But I will say to parents, if your

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Speaker 2: kid needs the NDIS, then we are committed to that

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Speaker 2: child getting the NDIS. We just want to have some

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Speaker 2: more choices out there. I mean. One of the things

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Speaker 2: which families often tell me when they've got a child

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Speaker 2: with a disability is how isolating it is. But in

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Speaker 2: many ways the scheme in the last ten years hasn't

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Speaker 2: concentrated enough on families as well as the kids and

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Speaker 2: peer to peer support. It's like the sense of relief

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Speaker 2: when a family of a child with particular disability meets

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Speaker 2: another family who is raising a child in the same circumstances.

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Speaker 2: It's a moment of tears because all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: people feel understood, and we haven't been doing enough support

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Speaker 2: for families. I also think the earlier that we can

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Speaker 2: see how a child's going, you know, just as you

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Speaker 2: do their immunizations and maternal child helping us the earlier

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Speaker 2: week and identify that just gives us options.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, all right, Bill Shorton, appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, no, but thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Federal in dis Minister Bill Shorten on the NDAs changes

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Speaker 1: that rolled through Parliament