1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: From the newsroom and news still come today today. There 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Bucklow, and let's be honest, there's only one 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: story the world is talking about today, and no surprisingly, 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: it's not the fact a Bondai rescue guy into the 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Imusleb jungle last night. It is, of course, the inauguration 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump, who was sworn in as president this morning. 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: We are going to make America great again. Some people 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: are pretty pumped about Trump's plans to transform America and 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: the world over the next four years, but others, including 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: my guest in this episode, are well a little bit 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: nervous about what could be on Trump's agenda, the. 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: Use of military and police forces in ways they haven't 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: been used before, using the military to put down demonstrations. 14 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 2: He really doesn't like certain news organizations and certain journalists. 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: Will he try and jail them. 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, I hope he doesn't try to 17 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: jail me. I would not last a second in prison. 18 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: I'm way too pretty. Today's special guest will explain why 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: he thinks there's a very real chance that America, because democracy, 20 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: may not survive Trump's presidency, and what Trump's second stint 21 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: in the White House could mean for Australia. Bruce Wilpe 22 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: is a senior fellow at the United States Study Center. 23 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: He worked in politics in the US and Australia, was 24 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: once even chief of staff for Julia Gillard. He's also 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: an author whose latest book is called What Trump's Second 26 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: Term Means for Australia. Bruce, thanks so much for joining me. 27 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: Do You're great to be with you? Really? I appreciate it. 28 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: What are a few words in your opinion to describe 29 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: how the world should feel about Donald Trump's second presidency. 30 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: Unfortunately anxious. I mean, I think there are a lot 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: of people who are very happy that he's in. I 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: think President Gie of China is happy that Trump is back. 33 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: I think Putin in Russia is happy that he's back. 34 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: I think that in Yahoo is happy. But I think 35 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: a lot of the others around the world who are 36 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: part and parcel of the architecture erected going back to 37 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: World War Two, after World War Two, what the world 38 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: order would be like after that horrific conflict, I think 39 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: they're He's going to really change the architecture of the 40 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: world order. That's going to affect them and will be 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: in a different world for him returning to the presidency. 42 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: So I'd say anxious as the word. Maybe good things 43 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: will come, and I think they hope that will happen, 44 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: but I think there's uncertainty. 45 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: What do you think Trump will be focused on this 46 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: second time around. Do you think that he'll be trying 47 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: to build a legacy as an effective president or do 48 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: you think he might be on the lookout for revenge both. 49 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: He stands for four things. He's for America first, in 50 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: other words, that the world should be tilted towards America, 51 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: the benefit should come more net to the United States 52 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: than anybody else. He's an isolationist. Yes, he engages with 53 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: the world, but he doesn't want America involved in foreign wars. 54 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: He's a nativist. He wants to close borders and control immigration, 55 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: and he wants to bring the economy, make things made 56 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: in America and so forth. So those are things that 57 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: he stands for, and so he wants that to be 58 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: his legacy. But at the same time, he hates a 59 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: lot of people that caused him grief over the past 60 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: ten years. And yes, I believe he wants a degree 61 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 2: of retribution. And to think about Trump is everything is 62 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: committed in broad daylight. I mean he's not hiding anything. 63 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: He's not trying to say, oh, try and find out 64 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: me and what I want. It's out there. I like 65 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: to say, for a guy who lied thirty thousand times 66 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: in his first term as president, he's the most relentlessly 67 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: honest politician we have seen in our lifetimes. 68 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: Who do you think will be on his hit list 69 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: if he's out for revenge. 70 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: Well, he's for those who caused all the investigations. He 71 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: doesn't like big media that's against him, he doesn't like 72 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: big tech that's against him, members of Congress that went 73 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 2: after him, and just people who can affect his exercise 74 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: of power. But I think those are the big one, 75 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: some political figures, public figures, media figures, and I think 76 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: he wants to take out vengeance against them. 77 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: Let's talk about what Donald Trump's presidency this time around 78 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: could mean for the United States. You suggest in your 79 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: book that America's democracy may not survive Trump's presidency. Are 80 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: you being an alarmist there or do you genuinely think 81 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump will usher in an authoritarian government. 82 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: I think he leads authoritarian because he likes power. He 83 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: believes that he can accomplish much more if he has 84 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: free reign of power. I think he has contempt for 85 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: Congress and courts that stand in his way. So I 86 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: think that's going to be a really important driver of 87 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 2: how he acts. I think Trump has his agenda, he 88 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: wants to make sure that it's implemented. 89 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: What exactly would that look like if Trump were to 90 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: try and instill a more authoritarian government? Can you just 91 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: describe that for US? 92 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 2: I think it would be the use of military and 93 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: police forces in ways they haven't been used before. I 94 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: think using the military to put down demonstrations. He really 95 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: doesn't like certain news organizations and certain journalists. Will he 96 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: try and jail them? Will he try and close down 97 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: those outlets? Will he direct the regulatory agencies to go 98 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: after companies that he opposes that are not necessarily threats 99 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: to him in a business sense, but he doesn't like 100 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: their political orientation or what they do, And so does 101 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: he use the power of government to drive competitors out business? 102 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: So when you see that, that's not democracy, that is authoritarian. 103 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: So if we see a critical mass of that, then 104 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: we can say America is moving away from the norms, 105 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: from what we understand democracy to be. And so we'll 106 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: see whether that occurs. 107 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: Could you envision a world where Donald Trump tries to 108 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: hold onto power beyond the next four years because he's 109 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: only allowed to have this term. He's not allowed to 110 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: go beyond this term, from what I understand, Do you 111 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: think he'll try and hold onto power for years after that? 112 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think he's kind of indicated 113 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: that himself. And also, he's seventy eight years old. In 114 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: four years will be eighty two years old. That would 115 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: I think even he is reaching limits as far as 116 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: age body mind. So, no, these first two years are crucial. 117 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: He's at the zenith of his power. He has the 118 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: White House, the House, and the Senate. The courts are 119 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: filled with Trump appointees. The Supreme Court leans in his direction. 120 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 2: He knows what his agenda is. He wants to get 121 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: it done as quickly as possible. So it's what he 122 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: does in the next two years which is going to 123 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: be the most important thing, and politically, the most important 124 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: thing is how do the American people feel? Right now? 125 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 2: The feeling is, well, he won a really decisive victory 126 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 2: and we're gonna get the full Trump. How are they 127 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: going to feel this time next year, next January? Did 128 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: he deliver, am I happier, my more secure? Is the 129 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: world more peaceful? We have Ukraine, we got Kaza, God 130 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: knows what else is coming. We're gonna have trade wars, 131 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: We're gonna have deportation of people with immigration. So all 132 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: of that, let's say it happens. Is are we better 133 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: off than we were at this time this year? 134 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: Justin moment, we'll find out what Trump's presidency could mean 135 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: for Australia and how he'll likely get on With Anthony Albinze, 136 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: let's talk about what Trump's presidency means for Australia. How 137 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: could it affect us? 138 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: Three levels? You have a bilateral relationship, and I would 139 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: have to say, given the first term, that Australia had 140 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: the most untroubled relationship with Trump and the United States 141 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 2: and any other country that includes Israel, it includes anyone 142 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: in Europe, it includes Canada and Mexico. And that's a 143 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: tribute to the diplomats Arthur Cinnadinos, Joe Hockey, to the 144 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: Prime Minister's Malcolm Turnabull, Scott Mars who really did a 145 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: terrific job in the turmoil that Trump caused, cutting through 146 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: establishing the relationship going into the Trump presidency. That relationship 147 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: is sound, but there are a couple of issues that 148 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: are going to test it. Trump wants to impose tariffs 149 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: on everything coming into the United States. Australia has a 150 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: free trade agreement with the United States. Is Trump going 151 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: to impose tariffs on Australia and so that is going 152 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: to be the first test. And then if he does 153 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: try to, can the Prime Minister get us out of that? 154 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: That's a big deal. Secondly, there may well be a 155 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: trade war with China. We just came out of a 156 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: trade war with China here in Australia. Trump will say, well, 157 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: I expect my allies to stand with me on a 158 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: trade war with China. Well, is that an Australia's interest. 159 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: We just got out of one. Do we want to 160 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: go into another one? And aucus really important Trump. I 161 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: think he's going to look at it. First of all, 162 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: Joe Biden kind of did it, and he doesn't like 163 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: Joe Biden things that Joe Biden did. But I think 164 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: he's going to look at it as a business deal. 165 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: Where are the contracts, where's the money flow? Who benefits 166 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: the most? Do I need to rejig it a little 167 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: bit to make it even more favorable to the United States. 168 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: So I think he's going to look at it, but 169 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: I think that should be okay. So those are the 170 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: immediate issues. Then you have regional issues. How does Trump 171 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: want to look? What does he want the Indo Pacific 172 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: to be? And what's he going to do when you 173 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: have South Korea in turmoil, you have bases in Japan 174 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: that Trump wants more money out of Japan to do that. 175 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: In South Korea, I think he wants to pull troops 176 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: out of there. He's not a big fan of all 177 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: the regional architecture that we have here and so does 178 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: he want to participate in it vigorously? So what does 179 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 2: that do Visa v. China and Visa v. What are 180 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 2: is in Australia's interest in the Indo Pacific? And then 181 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: global again, what's it going to in Ukraine? What's going 182 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: to do on Gaza, what's it going to do on NATO? 183 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: What's going to do in the World Health Organization, the 184 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: International Criminal Court, the Paris Agreement on climate All those 185 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: things will be touched by Trump and they will change, 186 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: and that means the world's going to look different. 187 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: Do you think that if the US government does kind 188 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: of drift towards a more authoritarian government under Trump in 189 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: the next four years, that Australia should perhaps reconsider our 190 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: relationship with the US. We're pretty tight, you know where allies. 191 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: We're getting the submarines from them, we fought alongside them 192 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: in war, we share intelligence with them. Should we be 193 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: questioning if we're such good mates? 194 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: I think it depends on whether Trump goes full authoritarian 195 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: and American democracy doesn't exist. It's going to take a 196 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: period of time for whatever actions he takes to unfold 197 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: and whatever, and for their effects to be appreciable and 198 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: for us to understand it. I call it an existential question. 199 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: Why are we aligned with the United States. We have 200 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: the same values. We believe in democracy. We believe in liberty, 201 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: We believe in freedom and freedom of the press, freedom 202 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: of the assembly. We believe in government being accountable. 203 00:09:58,920 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: To the people. 204 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: If that isn't the case anymore, if the United States 205 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: is no longer the United States because its democracy has 206 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 2: ceased to exist, that's a problem. And I think, and frankly, 207 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: if Trump does things that are really antithetical to Australian interests. 208 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: If Trumps raises tariffs on Australian products this year. That's 209 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: going to really darken the mood about Australians how they 210 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: feel the United States. And that's just a commercial issue, 211 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: that's not a democratic issue. 212 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be pissed at the first time Donald Trump 213 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: was president, Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison. Where the Australian 214 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,359 Speaker 1: Prime Minister is this time around it is Anthony Albanesi 215 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: until at least the next federal election. How do you 216 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: think he'll get on with albo. 217 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: I think the Albanesi relationship with Trump can be difficult. 218 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: I don't think Trump will particularly care for the prime 219 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 2: minister because of his background as beliefs. Trump will look 220 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 2: at Albanesi and say, I'm seeing Joe Biden here. I 221 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: don't right. If you look at Biden and Alberanzi, they're 222 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: actually sort of brothers in their priorities, what they care about, 223 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: their backgrounds and what they believe. But I think ALBINIASI 224 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: wants to set all that aside, and I think he 225 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: will comport himself perfectly as far as I want to 226 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: do business with you and let's just have a good, 227 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 2: hones straightforward relationship based on one hundred years of relationship 228 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: that our countries have had. You care for Australia. I 229 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: care for Australia. You care for the United States. I 230 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: care for the United States. Let's do business. Should work out. 231 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: But in politics it's always how you feel about the 232 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: person that you're talking with. 233 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: I want to ask about Kevin Rod. He is Australia's 234 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: current ambassador to the United States. He's criticized Donald Trump 235 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: if their been in the past. He's called Hi the 236 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: most destructive president in history and a trader to the West. 237 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: Do you think he can hold onto his job? 238 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: Prime Minster Albinisi also has said very hostile things about 239 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: Trump in the past few years. Trump will be briefed 240 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 2: on that and so forth. I think ambassad Rudd has 241 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: worked hard as hell to do a really great job, 242 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: and I think everyone I believe that he has and 243 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: I think he's delivered on all fronts every reason if 244 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 2: he wants to stay, there's every reason for him to continue. 245 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, if you can't 246 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: do business with the president. There was an ambassador from 247 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 2: the UK who sent a memo back to Whitehall during 248 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: Trump's presidency which criticized Trump. The memo leaked thanks to 249 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: all the nice bureaucrats over there in London and he 250 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: was recalled, So we'll just have to see it. But 251 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: with between Albanizi and Trumpet, that's what it's going to be. 252 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: Do they have common cause together and can they sit 253 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: down as friends and work things through. 254 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: That was Bruce Wolby, whose book What Trump's Second Term 255 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: Means for Australia is out right now. Just before he 256 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: left the studio a few moments ago, I asked him 257 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: to sign a copy of his book for me and 258 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: he wrote, this is lovely to Andrew in democracy, we 259 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: trust in that nice. I'm gonna pop that on my 260 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: mantel piece at home, next to my only other autographed book, 261 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: which is Kerry Anne Kennelly's memoir. Yeah. I have met 262 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: some pretty big stars in my time. All right. If 263 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: you want to read about Donald Trump's inauguration, we've got 264 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: all the angles covered at news dot com DOTU. And 265 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to From the Newsroom, 266 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: follow us, subscribe to from the Newsroom wherever you get 267 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: your podcasts.