WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 30 June 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome the Late Debates. 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:08.200 Good evening and welcome to the show. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.440 I'm Frey Leach, joined by Holly Hughes and Joe Hildebrand 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.040 filling in for Caleb Von and James McPherson. Here's what's 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.000 coming up on the Late Debate. Calls to Kevin Right 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.799 as Australia's ambassador to Washington as he's accused of blocking 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.200 access to the White House. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.280 Peace Love and. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.200 Six hundred dollars tickets to hear hate. How Glastonbury Music 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.000 Festival has officially lost the plot? 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.880 Plus can Cole be cool again? 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.040 One lobby group has a plan to convince women to 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:42.839 ditch the climate crusades and embrace Cole. Pennywong is on 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.640 her way to Washington for the Quad meeting this week, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:47.800 and we'll try to remind the world that. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:49.040 We actually exist. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.400 Well, she won't get that coveted meeting with Trump. She 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.360 will meet with Secretary of State Mark Rubio. This visit 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.600 comes at a truly critical time. Orcus is under review. 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.840 We've been slapt with tariffs. Meanwhile, Albanezi has refused to 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.320 heed America's call to lift defence spending to three point 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.160 five percent of GDP, making US in Australia an outlier 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.640 in the Western world. But according to Trump's twenty sixteen Polster, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.720 the biggest issue blocking our relationship with Trump is actually 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:21.959 Kevin Rudd. 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:25.720 Donald Trump needs to find an Australian that he likes, 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.600 or Australia needs to find an Australian that Donald Trump 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.320 likes and let that person take point, because so much 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.600 with Donald Trump is personal relationship. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:35.720 Do you think this is personal he simply doesn't know 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.560 Anthony Ibnezi or he doesn't like him. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.000 I think he doesn't like the current ambassador and that's 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:41.000 one of the biggest issues. 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.839 Really, this is no surprise. 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.960 Labor has spent years disparaging Trump. Now they have no 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.960 working relationship with the administration and it is us in 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.320 Australia that are going to pay. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.080 Joe, My question is bringing you in as the token 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:00.240 labor supporter here? 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:05.600 Is it so confair and imbalanced and impartial and balance? Yes, 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:06.680 I should work the ABASA. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:07.640 I'm so impartial. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.720 Is it time for Australia to sack Kevin run as 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.680 ambassador and put someone in who can actually have some 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.800 influence over the administration? 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:16.320 Yeah? 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.240 Look, so I'll spill the tea on everything I know 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.480 about it. My understanding is, and it comes from very 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.880 senior sources, and I know a lot of people who 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.320 work in Department of Foreign Affairs and the government obviously, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.840 but that it was actually Rudd and the US Embassy 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.160 in Washington, Australia's US Embassy in Washington that set up 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.000 that all important phone call between Donald Trump and Anthony 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.280 Albanezi that had been actually planned for weeks and has 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.919 been set up for weeks, and not everyone got one, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.040 but we did, and it happened to take place just 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.639 twenty four hours after he did that tariff announcement, So 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.320 that actually, with a bit of hard work and a 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.399 bit of good luck, that actually put us in pole 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.760 position to raise our. 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:02.400 Are we? 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.399 So Rudd has had What I'm saying is Rudd has 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.040 had some success with Trump, and I think Trump's I 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.720 think it's selling Trump a bit short that to say, oh, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.359 once you've sort of crossed him, you're you know, you're 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.320 dead to him. Trump has got a very to his credit, 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.959 has got a very long and strong tradition of forgiving 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.320 people who have said mean things. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.519 Yes, I accept that, but it does seem clear that 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.239 labor and the left, I mean We've heard Albanezi say 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.120 he's scared of Trump, and this anti Trump retoric has 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.640 been repeated constantly. Just last week, the Foreign Minister of 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.320 the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Rwanda got a 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.600 face to face meeting with Trump. Yet the Prime Minister 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.960 of Australia, who's part of UCAST, part of the Court, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:55.040 a key Western ally cat, can barely get a phone call, couldn't. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.160 Even get a phone call when they had the meeting canceled. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.680 They didn't even get a heads up, mate, listen, bit 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.200 of a new you in the Middle East, I got 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.840 a duck home, didn't even get a phone call with 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.040 regards to the meeting that had to be canceled. There's 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.320 been zero effort for it to be re established. I mean, 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.200 I think it's time gena Ryan Hart or Greg Norman 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.600 or someone else's a high quality Australian that actually gets 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.120 on with Trump maybe the better person to go and 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:24.000 have a conversation because Albaneze is getting nowhere everybody. I mean, 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.720 you know, there was an expression around years ago if 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.160 you wanted to be a Julia Gillard. You know, if 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.720 you like Julia, if you hated Julia Gillard. 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:31.880 Don't meet her. 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.680 If you like Kevin Rudd, don't meet it and you 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.440 know Joe, you would remember that. I mean, Gillard was 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.400 very well respected in like percent everybody thought Kevin O 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:48.119 seven and Kevin. You met Kevin once you spent time 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:52.599 with Kevin, you know, and got to know Kevin was 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.279 to not want to spend time with Kevin. So I think, 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.600 you know, flight attendants on RAF jets and Trump are 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.760 probably making the same call and not wanting to spend 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:01.440 time with our man. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.200 I think to be fair album, I mean, he did 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.440 have a meeting with Trump scheduled for the J seven. 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.320 It's just that Trump had to go off and save 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:12.680 the world, not really have to be a sideline meeting 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.440 because Australia is not in the G seven anything Australia. 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.680 But this is exactly that's the point. It's critical here. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:25.120 If if Almani's he was actually focused on repairing this 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.680 relationship with Trump, wouldn't the first and most obvious step 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.520 be to get on the plane and actually meet him 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:32.240 in the White House. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.400 But if these things have to be just rock up 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.040 because he doesn't. 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.359 But I would say he doesn't want to go to 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.840 the White House because he doesn't want to be confronted 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.920 by Trump. He wants to have these sideline meetings where 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.520 they can be informal and non confrontational, because he knows 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.800 he will be grilled on defense. 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.040 A fine man, a very fine man, and they're going 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:54.800 to be great friends. Everything's going to be great. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.760 We're going to have a great arcis Yeah, Well let's hope. So. 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.080 But look, it is clear the US does not like 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.120 the direction that Australia is heading in, especially with our 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.560 defense spending. But not to worry guys, China seeds to 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.520 love it. Their ambassador wrote an opinion piece in The 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.440 Australian Today urging us to see China as a friend, 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.240 not a foe, and they also called on Albanezi to 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.360 resist pressure to spend more on defense. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.680 H I wonder why the Chinese would be saying that. 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.799 Well, when asked about it, how many easy got very sensitive. 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.160 So the Chinese ambassador speaks for China. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.359 My job is to speak for Australia, and it's in 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.880 Australia's national interest for us to invest in our capability 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.120 and to invest in our relationships. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:41.400 And we're doing just so, thank you. 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.359 Our defense spending is now more aligned with what China 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.839 wants from us than with what the US wants. We 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.040 saw NATO commit to five percent. We've been asked to 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.520 go to three point five percent. We won't even do that. 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:54.719 This is an indictment on our government. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.720 Well, I think what China doesn't want is US having 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.479 the capability to notice when one of their hips is 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.000 circumnavigating our nation. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:03.599 They're a little bit worried. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.880 We might give a bit of money to virgin pilots 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.000 so they can recognize when live fire. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.560 Missiles on the virgin flight. You know, all our problems. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.440 Maybe that's what we need to do is actually, you know, 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.200 to invest the money, time, effort, and energy into just 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.320 training up our commercial pilots to see if they can 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.320 spot any anomally happening out in ours. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.120 And you've got to draw the lines up. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.120 I mean, you know, yeah, there's so many places where 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:29.680 we could go with that. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:35.160 Joseph I actually said, these people on a virgin flight 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.480 and nearly got shot down by Chinese spilship. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.320 Now you expect that kind of thing on Jetstar a 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.320 Middle Australian paraly not on virgins. 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.400 I think, I mean, obviously the fact that China thinks 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.800 our defense vet is too high, probably tells you that 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.400 maybe it's not so bad after all. Obviously we're not 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.280 going to listen to China. I think we will actually 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.120 up out and this is the thing. There will be 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.480 a meeting with Trump and they will both come out 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.360 of it, and I'm pretty sure that it will result 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:04.320 in August being officially ratified or reaffirmed, and Albo will 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.880 say yes, and we're going to increase defense spending. We've 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.680 spontaneously decided to increase it to three percent in EXEUS. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:14.120 But what concerns me is why is this not what 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.680 they're already doing. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.160 Why does it have to be dragged, kicking and screaming 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:20.960 to increase. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.440 Because it has to be a deal, because the whole 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.120 thing is that you have to you have to. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.000 You go into a meeting, you come out. 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.760 And Albo says Australia is a big winner because we've 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.160 got Orcust and we're spending on defense. And Trump can 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:32.640 go out and say to his base, sal I made 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.480 Australia increase it spending to defense. 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:35.720 And that's why I'm. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.559 Being we're not even getting the meeting now, because to say. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.240 For the meeting, you've got to save you have if 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.960 you already say, oh, will increase the defense spending. You 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.280 suddenly lose all your all your cards, and Trump loves cards. 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:54.719 As as Zelenski knows the art of the deal. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:55.840 You go and say, you know this is two point 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.480 three percent and we're not budgeting. Then you say, all right, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.760 we're going to take orcas who we're and Chine is 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.599 going to advt all right, we'll go to three. 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:04.679 And then you go and then you both come out 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:05.560 and you say we've got a deal. 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:06.120 It's he. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.320 The problem with that, Holly is that it assumes that 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.080 Australia can actually offer anything substantive to Trump. I don't 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.840 think he cares two hoots about whether we increase defense 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.840 spending or not. Currently, he just thinks we're free riders 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.640 off the US, and he's shown that he is willing 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:25.040 to blow up alliances in order to get nations to budge. 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.840 We in Australia have a lot more to lose. We 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.559 have less chips in this negotiation than the US does. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.959 Look, I think geographically we're very important for them across 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.280 the world. Where we are located. We're closer to Hawaii, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.000 we've got Pine Gap. I do think there are things 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.439 that we can do working with our alliance. 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.439 That are maybe not dollars down per se. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.559 But when you look at Tindle and its location, which 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.360 just for someone who might be part of the Shadow Ministry, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.000 it's not in Darwin, it's just outside of Catherine. But 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.640 you speak to the US fighter pilots during Pitch Black, 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.600 and they of the fact that they can fly over 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.360 this huge desert not over built up areas, something that 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.000 they don't have the ability to do those exercises. I 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:08.600 think we need to be more clever in the way 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.120 we approach this relationship. What we can bring to the 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.559 table our GDPY is you know, we're talking to one 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.960 percent twenty six billion dollars. When you look at some 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.000 of the other nations and the percentage that they're going 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.720 to be spending in dollar terms, it's a big lot 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.839 more chunk of change than we've got when you look 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.080 at the size of their economies. So I just think 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.080 everyone needs to be a bit smarter about this. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:30.480 That doesn't seem to be the case. 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.120 Well the other people that definitely need to be a 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.079 little smarter. I some of the people that performed at 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:40.040 the UK Music Festival Glastonbury, do you remember the days 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:44.280 when music festival going young people were basically doped up pippies, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:45.560 all about peace and love. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:46.680 Well, I. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:49.880 Remember the sixties. You weren't there. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:51.360 Yeah, well that's exactly right. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.680 I definitely don't because I wasn't around in the sixties. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.200 Unfortunately, hang on, hang on. 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:57.640 Neither would Joe and I. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.720 I just like say that was a sixties hippie. 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:03.240 He was a wandering American turrier. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.720 We haven't fed. The apple has not rolled to the. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.920 Therapy, so does explain a lot about you, Joe. But 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.840 I've also seen the iconic images of woodstop and music festivals. 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.320 Back then it was all peace and love, but today 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.120 they are so different. The UK's Glassenbury will set you 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.040 back at least six hundred dollars and you'll get to 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:30.520 hear performances that are not music, not art, just pure hatred. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.120 This is one musician who performed at the festival and 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.240 he calls himself Bob. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:43.239 Villain, theft If, the If, the IDF. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.040 This is another band that was also at the festival 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.920 called Kneecap. One of their band members has been charged 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.160 with a terror offence after displaying a flag in sport 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:00.280 of Hezbla and allegedly shouting up her mass up hezbla 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.119 Is are war criminals. 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.120 It's Jana said, like PAMs Lessen, I can see the 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:10.840 Amernda Palestinian flags here. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.160 And it's seeing the BBC editor is going to have some. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:20.240 Job, particularly that first chance chanting death death to the IDF. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.000 How is that not incitement to violence? And how did 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:28.000 the lefty hippie progressive you claim to stand on the 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.160 side of human rights and love and tolerance suddenly end 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.800 up on this side of terror organizations. 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.040 Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's the most interesting thing 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:38.560 about it. So it's one thing for a sort of 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.360 extremist to be out there saying, you know, I want 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:42.240 to blow up Israel. 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.199 That means you are a terrorist. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.960 It's another thing for all these peace love and mung 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.679 being hippies to be like that. So that's selling Palestinian 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.280 flags a glass. But apparently they're selling they were selling 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:54.720 and might. 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.880 Just ask how they made in China. 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.360 Probably I think ten quid. It was so you could 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.600 show how you know, right on you are. It costs 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.800 about I know you said six hundred must be cheap. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.640 Their tickets from my from what I could gather the 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.760 basic entry pass for the full three days was eight 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.199 hundred dollars Australian, so three hundred and forty pounds about it. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.720 So we are talking rich, cashed up progressive hipsters who 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.559 go to these things, right, this is not these are 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.439 not for the working man. And so there are two 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.880 and this is how sort of weird and creepy it gets. 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.280 So there's this Irish rap group from Belfast called Kneecap, 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.280 which I think is a play on the fact that 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:40.080 the IRA used to go around kneecapping informers. Then they 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.280 were last November, a year after the October seventh attack. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.160 They're one of their members to be to show how 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:53.160 hardcore they were, shouted upper mass up. Hezbeler draped himself 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.040 in the heasbell of flag. Now because the UK has 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.079 all these kind of to be honest, quite draconian sort 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.319 of hate speech, Lord, you can talk about We're talking 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.000 about that later. He actually got charged last in May. 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:05.920 I think we're July now. 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.520 He got charged in May with the terror related offenses 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.000 supporting a terror organization because Hamas and Hes prescribed terror 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.960 organization in the UK, but they are here. Glastonbury still 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.840 put him on so even while he was being charged 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:24.000 with supporting a terrorist organization, Glastonbury still has him on. 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.640 Now this creates a pickle for the BBC because the 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.200 BBC is live streaming the whole thing. So what the 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:33.280 BBC do is right, We're not going to live stream Kneecap. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.680 But what they didn't know was there was another group 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.960 called Bob Villain. Get it the clues in the name. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.920 This is a duo who used fake names, both Bobby Villain. 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.440 So there's Bobby Villain with a Y and Bobby Villain 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.040 with an ie and they're both members of the group 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:49.920 called Bob Villain. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.640 Kids are so clever these days. 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.400 I can only think of I can only think of 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:55.840 like one pun so they thought they. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:56.280 Use it three? 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:56.960 What gets me? 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.320 Bob Villain or violin whatever they are, But you would 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.800 assume thinking of their name bit of Bob Dylan something, 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.960 that's the whole idea that John Dylan is Jewish? 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.360 Ye have they not figured that out? 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.520 Like I mean to see, you're also bought again Christian 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.320 for some time they get into that. 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:12.480 Seriously. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.960 If they're anti Semitic and designers calling for the destruction 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.520 of the IDF and they've named themselves. 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:21.720 I mean, I don't know, is that an element of irony? 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.840 I'm I think I think the idea is that while 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.200 Bob Dylan was all peace, love and mung beans, they're. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:27.280 More hard, good, hard cool. 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.280 But the real kicker is that when Kneecap gets busted 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.280 with these things. So Kneecaps sort of started all and 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.680 then obviously these guys who are opening act for them, 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.240 I reckon they would have said, right, we'll do. 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:38.119 It for you. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.560 But every time NCAP gets busted, they don't stand by 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.400 it and say. You know, they've said other things like 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.280 the only dead toy, the only good toy is a 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.080 dead toy. You should kill your local tory and pay 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:47.960 or whatever, and then when they get caught they go 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.640 because that has happened in the UK, MPs have been 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:52.800 killed and they said, oh no, no, we didn't mean that. 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.160 That's just you know, that's just part of our actress, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.520 a part of our persona, that who we are. So 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.200 they are openly saying the actually full of shit. They're 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:05.280 just pretending that this is just activist cos play. And 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.960 yet they're doing all this, and yet the crowd gets 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.520 sucked along the crowd gets sucked along for this thing 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.720 that even the acts themselves, even Mekap itself admits it's 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.600 just doing to pretend it's more hardcore than it realized. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.000 Convening right, and that's that's exactly right, because the problem 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.720 with progressives is progressive without any values. 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:25.280 They have to. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.760 Continue progressing towards things, but they don't know what they're 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.720 progressing towards, and you have to be more and more edgy, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.880 more and more pushing the boundaries, and eventually you don't 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.320 have any sense of right or wrong anymore, and you're 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:43.320 literally chanting incitements to violence. It is honestly shocking. But 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.840 there is apparently a spot of hope in UK for 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.120 young people because a couple of years ago veganism was 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.840 all the rage. Vegan restaurants, vegan grosses and even vegan. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.120 Butchers were booming. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.880 But now cashed up under forties aren't paying top dollar 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.320 soggy rabbit food. Some are instead paying one hundred and 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.200 eighty pounds for a. 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.879 Class on butchery with real meat. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.760 According to a chef who's worked with some of London's 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.280 top restaurants, across the board, meat is searching in demand 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.520 that waitro is one of their big grocery stores. 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.720 Sales of WAGU burgers. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.800 And meat balls are up twenty percent since May, and 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.879 Tesco said that searches for WAGU were up eighty seven 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.960 percent compared to last year. Holly, my question to you 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.879 is if millennials can snap out of the fad of veganism, 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.320 is there still hope for young people? 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:39.720 This is this is. 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.080 Just inspiring and gives me hope for the next generation. 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.600 You know, they'll be any take care next. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.000 I mean, honestly, this is honestly the best sign I 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.880 think I've ever heard of the millennials finally waking up 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.520 that fake meat is not meat, that they. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.560 Can actually not have to. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.240 I mean, there was you know that saying how you 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.520 know if someone does crossfeed or is it vegan, because 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.440 they'll tell you and you know it's both of those things. 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.440 And the fact that vegans are on the way out. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.320 I mean, honestly, I think I don't think I have 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.000 any friends who are vegan, and I'm not quite sure 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:15.439 whether that's symptomatic or not. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:16.520 Which way, you know. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:17.600 The vegan insufferable. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:19.760 The chicken or the egg come first, The vegan or 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.080 the friendship come first, but they certainly wouldn't be a friend. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.879 And there were a lot of celebrities that did promote 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.320 veganism is a big thing, but even they seem to 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:32.000 have dropped off the vegan bandwagon. Many have actually realized 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:33.879 it's terrible for their health and they end up with 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.200 all sorts of vitamin deficiencies, et cetera. 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.440 And it's but it's not actually about that. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.800 Again, like so many other things, it's not actually about 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.720 being vegan. It's not actually about the food. It's not 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.720 even really, I don't think, actually about the planet. It's like, 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.600 it's about being able to tell people that you're vegan. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.800 But if everybody's vegan, then suddenly you're not special anymore, 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.040 so boredable. So it's actually so it's actually more edgy 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.399 if you say, oh yeah, I'm actually really it's like 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.919 when all the inner city hipster's got into slow cooked 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.440 beef brisket and stuff, because it was like really, but 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:08.560 I'll tell you what something very interesting. Do you know 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.200 how edgy being a vegan is these days? Guess who's 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:12.679 a vegan? 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.400