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Speaker 1: Isn't it funny how people with deviant tendencies of any sort, stealing,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, they repeat themselves to their thieves, their frauds,

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Speaker 1: they embezzel, they murder, they cheat on their wives, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, their crooked in every way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like maybe they can't exist unless they're doing

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Speaker 2: something shady or like just.

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Speaker 1: The nature of the beast.

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Speaker 2: It was actually about money, because what it was most

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Speaker 2: crimes about love, sex, money, jealousy.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Life and Crimes with Andrew Ruhl. Last week

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Speaker 1: we spoke to Emily Web about her new book, Murdering

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Speaker 1: the Suburbs, and this week she's back again with some

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Speaker 1: more stories from that book. I think about some poisoning cases.

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Speaker 2: Hello Emily, Hello Andrew.

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Speaker 1: Now talking about poisoning cases. I can think of a

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Speaker 1: case that you haven't done here, but we've done it before,

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Speaker 1: and that's of Lorraine Moss of Bendigo, who wasn't her

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Speaker 1: husband because she was having an affair with one of

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Speaker 1: these workmates. You've got a story. I think that they're

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Speaker 1: with chocolates, which may also involve poisonings. What's the background

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Speaker 1: of that one?

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Speaker 2: Well, I find poisonings really fascinating and I have listened

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Speaker 2: to your episodes on Yeah, Lorraine Mossat was a really

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Speaker 2: interesting case. Now, this this chapter came about because there

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Speaker 2: was a case in the early nineteen eighties that was

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Speaker 2: pretty widely reported. It was a case of a box

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Speaker 2: of poisoned strych nine laced chocolates being sent from Sydney

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Speaker 2: to Germany with the intent to be sent to this woman,

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Speaker 2: like a six year old woman who lived in a

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Speaker 2: little town near Cologne.

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Speaker 1: But what was that about.

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Speaker 2: Well, these chocolates got sent from Sydney and they were

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Speaker 2: sent not directly to this woman, Mary Anne sir. This

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Speaker 2: was in nineteen eighty three, I believe nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 2: because it took a while to sort of uncover what

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Speaker 2: was happening. And they were sent from a family in

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Speaker 2: Sydney or a man in Sydney by proxy, though he

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Speaker 2: got someone he knew they were born in what was

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Speaker 2: known as the Czech Republic back then, got a friend

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Speaker 2: to send them to someone in Cologne who was a jeweler,

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Speaker 2: actually a checkborn jeweler. But there was a note inside

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Speaker 2: to say, hey, could you send these on to this person?

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Speaker 2: Marianne sure, he's fifty bucks for your trouble. But they

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Speaker 2: didn't read the note and they got stuck into the

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Speaker 2: chocolates in the jewelry shop. But very quickly they realized, oh,

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Speaker 2: there's a discussing.

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Speaker 1: One.

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Speaker 2: The jeweler who opened them was incredibly sick, like he

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Speaker 2: could have almost died, and stricken will do that, Like

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Speaker 2: it's a horrible way to die, Like it's almost like invola,

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Speaker 2: like an exorsust type thing, like an involuntary body movements

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Speaker 2: and yeah, and so they were sick, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: what the hell's going on here? And the police were called.

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Speaker 2: They're like, well, why would someone want to send this

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Speaker 2: to a little old lady in a you know, cologne

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Speaker 2: back story? Backstory? So they're tracking it back. So who

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Speaker 2: does she know Insyney? Which it's nineteen eighty four actually,

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Speaker 2: so that was when it was sent.

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Speaker 1: Would it be some post war treachery, you know, where

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Speaker 1: somebody or other sold out somebody else to the Nazis

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Speaker 1: or any of that?

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Speaker 2: I wonder, Well it was actually about money, because what

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Speaker 2: it was most crimes about love, sex, money, jealousy. So

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Speaker 2: Marianne sure her niece lived in Sydney and her niece

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Speaker 2: was married to a man called Milan Nakuda, and Marianne

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Speaker 2: had been out on a trip the year before to

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Speaker 2: Australia visiting family. And what they worked out is it

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Speaker 2: was sent because they were hoping that the woman who

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Speaker 2: was the niece of marian Sr Would possibly be named

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Speaker 2: in the will like the like you know, had a

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Speaker 2: stake in the will because this woman she didn't have

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Speaker 2: her own children, she had nieces. She had discussed probably

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Speaker 2: some of the stuff when she was in Sydney. One

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Speaker 2: of her nieces. She had left a lot of money too,

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Speaker 2: but had this niece had been in the Church of

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Speaker 2: Scientology and she was like, I don't want my money

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Speaker 2: going to a church. So there was some assumption that

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Speaker 2: Haiki Hiker I don't know how to pronounce, that who

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Speaker 2: was the niece would be a beneficiary of the will.

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Speaker 2: But Milan, her husband, who was born in the Czech

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Speaker 2: Republic and had migrated to Australia from South Africa in

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Speaker 2: the late nineteen seventies, he actually was the one who

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Speaker 2: initiated this. There's no suggestion that Hiker knew anything about this,

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Speaker 2: so it basically involved so police in Cologne. There was

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Speaker 2: a police like inspector and then he had to get

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Speaker 2: in contact with police in Sydney.

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Speaker 1: New South Wales an International.

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Speaker 2: It was really fascinating and you know, it turns out

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Speaker 2: that so they're like, okay, Milan Nakuda, what the hell's

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Speaker 2: going on here? He claims he was forced to send

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Speaker 2: them some men like had threatened him and he's you know,

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Speaker 2: his wife and daughter young daughter at the time, and

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Speaker 2: he was forced to send them. But it turns out

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Speaker 2: that Milan had a pretty shady past, like pretty dirty past.

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Speaker 2: He actually had been jail for murder in South Africa.

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Speaker 2: He murdered his wife's lover when he found them in bed.

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Speaker 2: He killed the man and burnt his body and he

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Speaker 2: did a bit of jail time. So I'd moved to

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Speaker 2: South Africa from Czechoslovakia, which was still under communist rule

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Speaker 2: back then. And yeah, like he had done his jail time,

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Speaker 2: but then the Australia he got to Australia, I don't

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Speaker 2: think he was very truthful, but he was actually also

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Speaker 2: wanted when he left South Africa on fraud charges because

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Speaker 2: he was taking money in under the guise of travel

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Speaker 2: agentsport Well, yeah, I don't know, did they check that

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Speaker 2: back then, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Well, just pre computer, it just falls into the old

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Speaker 1: paper world where stuff could be forged.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess you could.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't be flagged immediately.

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Speaker 2: No, And he actually was. He fled under. He was

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Speaker 2: wanted for like defrauding people out of money for a

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Speaker 2: cruise that never existed. So he came to Australian who's

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Speaker 2: working as a computer analyst. And he'd been married I

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Speaker 2: think a few times.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it funny how people with deviant tendencies of any sort, stealing,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, they repeat themselves. Their thieves, their frauds,

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Speaker 1: they embezzel, they murder, Yeah, they cheat on their wives,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. They're crooked in every way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like maybe they can't exist unless they're doing something.

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Speaker 1: Shady or like just the nature of the beast.

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Speaker 2: I find it fascinating.

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Speaker 1: And so they're parking disabled spot, do a.

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Speaker 2: Fraudulent like disability badge or different things like that. But

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Speaker 2: the German police, the Cologne police and the New South

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Speaker 2: Wales police, they were working together. There was some you

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Speaker 2: know issues, I guess probably, yeah, fax machines like pre computer.

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Speaker 1: True fact, machines and so the upshot.

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Speaker 2: Well, this Milan Nicuda got arrested. They took over the

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Speaker 2: investigation yet.

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Speaker 1: From sort of police arrested in though, is it two

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Speaker 1: detectives But it's not a homicide job.

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Speaker 2: No, because she wasn't She wasn't murdered. And the charged

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Speaker 2: he was charged with was something that had been enacted

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Speaker 2: in like nineteen hundred, but.

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Speaker 1: Never sending something, sending something.

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Speaker 2: Maliciously delivering a noxious substance through the mail. It was

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Speaker 2: the first time that charge was used since it was

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Speaker 2: introduced in nineteen hundred. So yeah, Milan Nicuda is.

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Speaker 1: Probably still on the statute. Some of the people who

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Speaker 1: send letters to me, she'll be charged under that substances.

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Speaker 2: Do you get the strange letters, like handwritten.

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Speaker 1: That are with capitals underline, Yeah, and sometimes different colored pins.

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Speaker 1: I guess they're like sometimes very neat is a serial

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Speaker 1: killer or a mass killer? Right to me? Regularly? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's very neat. It's got good penmanship, just neat, neat, interesting,

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Speaker 1: not so much neat and tidy, but a little bit

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Speaker 1: young looking.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think I know the person.

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Speaker 1: You probably don't.

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Speaker 2: I have an idea.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, been in jail a long time, yes.

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Speaker 2: And we'll probably never get out right. Possibly back to

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Speaker 2: the story, Milan Nakuda went to court the witnesses in

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Speaker 2: Germany literally at the airport waiting to fly out to

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Speaker 2: give evidence, but last minute he pled guilty to the

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Speaker 2: charge and he actually got eighteen years imprisonment with a

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Speaker 2: twelve year non parole period and was granted parole. I

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Speaker 2: checked nineteen ninety five, so we did nineteen eighty eight

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Speaker 2: to ninety five, So did a fair whack and then

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Speaker 2: was look, I was trying to find out exactly, but

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Speaker 2: it required some files and I would have I do

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Speaker 2: like he was most likely deported afterwards, because they do.

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Speaker 2: I've done cases before where you know, there's been the perpetrator,

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Speaker 2: they've done their time and they're like deported back to

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Speaker 2: Scotland or something. But it's sometimes a bit hard to

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Speaker 2: get that information. Yeah, but it was definitely, And there's

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Speaker 2: a few other cases. I could have actually written I

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Speaker 2: reckon a whole book on poison chocolates. There was a

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Speaker 2: lot of case. There's just a lot of cases when

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Speaker 2: you're losing at the archives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got more than that case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a few others. There's one from a church

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Speaker 2: going lady in Florida who sent poison laced fudge to

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Speaker 2: her church congregation because she was just, you know, feeling

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Speaker 2: a bit slighted by them the Bible class. They're all sick.

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Speaker 1: That could happen.

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Speaker 2: And another one in nineteen forties in Melbourne where a

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Speaker 2: woman sent it to her cousin, but she used really

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Speaker 2: old rat poison and it wasn't going to work. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: but there's a lot of poisonings like a big, a

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Speaker 2: big thing as we know of recent time. Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: that Lorraine Moss case was really fascinating and there was

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Speaker 2: Emily Perry. I think back in the sixties.

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Speaker 1: It's always every generation seems to have had, you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple. It's a thing, the Mushroom case. The book

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Speaker 1: I think, the Finnish book which the plot is sort

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Speaker 1: of rests, is called The Man Who Died. It's translated

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Speaker 1: from the Finnish into English, and if anybody out there

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Speaker 1: wants to read the book, that probably inspired the Mushroom murders.

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Speaker 1: That's the one boy that led to a series and

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Speaker 1: some sort of Netflix or whatever candy type drama series.

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Speaker 1: So I think our Aaron might have been a big

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Speaker 1: fan of that sort of stuff. Listeners. Obviously we're talking

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Speaker 1: about this before the verdict in the Patterson case, the

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Speaker 1: Mushroom case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I would be interested to know what

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Speaker 2: sentence Aaron gets. I think it'll be pretty hefty.

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Speaker 1: It will be. And yet again it's funny. What else

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Speaker 1: has happened in the past. I think John Sharp who

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Speaker 1: killed his wife and child with a speak a most

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Speaker 1: terrible crime and cut them up and put them in

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Speaker 1: the tip. I think he got thirty three years. But

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Speaker 1: another fellow called Mark Smith burnt this is and it's

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Speaker 1: cold blooded. He's not mad, he's just cold blooded. He

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Speaker 1: took up with another woman, and he planned it methodically

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Speaker 1: that he would stage the burning of his house in

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Speaker 1: Hoppers Crossing and Bernie's wife and ten weeks old child,

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Speaker 1: and he'd set up a candle to make it look

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Speaker 1: as if the candle had fallen over. He got an

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Speaker 1: anesthetic like ether and knocked his wife out and set fire.

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Speaker 1: Now the idea was the fire was going to kill

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Speaker 1: her and the baby, so they weren't dead, they were

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Speaker 1: going to burn to death. And he left, went to work,

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Speaker 1: you know, pretended nothing had happened. And then he gets

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Speaker 1: to call, oh, your house on fire. Well, it's terrible,

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Speaker 1: and he rushes back, expecting to find them both dead. Well,

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Speaker 1: the baby was dead, burnt to death, and his wife

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Speaker 1: had woken up somehow and escaped. She lost Anne and

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Speaker 1: was terribly badly burnt, but she survived. Wow, that bloke

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Speaker 1: who has murdered his own child tried to murder his

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Speaker 1: wife in cold blood? What do you think? He got

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Speaker 1: twenty two? But that's all I mean, he didn't get

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Speaker 1: He didn't get twenty nine or thirty two or thirty five,

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Speaker 1: Like when was it was this, like only fifteen years ago?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe thirty I would have, Yeah, twenty, Yet twenty.

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Speaker 1: I can't see why he's worth only two thirds of sharp. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand some of the sentence.

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Speaker 2: I've learned a lot actually from listening to, you know,

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Speaker 2: the different coverage of the trials. I really love the

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Speaker 2: fact that podcasts are covering trials. I started listening to

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Speaker 2: the Lucy let Be trial a few years back that

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Speaker 2: the Daily Mail did, and I think it's really important.

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Speaker 2: But I think the interest is so much obviously the

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Speaker 2: mushroom case that Aaron Patterson cases sparked so much interest.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's actually really good for people to

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Speaker 2: understand the criminal justice system, you know, Like so it's

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Speaker 2: got a bit of an education focus as well.

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Speaker 1: How long did it take you to do your most

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Speaker 1: excellent book, Murder in the Suburbs.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm I'm a pretty slow rider, unless I've got

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Speaker 2: the looming threat of a deadline flaming of my backside. Look,

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Speaker 2: it probably I took a bit longer because I had

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Speaker 2: a bit going on last year and I had a

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Speaker 2: child in BC at doing year twelve. Look, probably ten months.

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Speaker 2: I mean I could have done it quicker, maybe eleven months.

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Speaker 2: I Yeah, I've done it because you know, like I

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Speaker 2: wor bills. Yeah, it's like you know, night times and

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Speaker 2: early mornings. Like, look, some of the chapters in there

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Speaker 2: are ones that I've written years ago, and like you know,

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Speaker 2: you go back and improve it, you like, update it.

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Speaker 2: Some of some of the cases the ones that people

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Speaker 2: you know have heard about, but at the time I

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Speaker 2: was writing about them, I just was really interested in them.

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Speaker 2: Like the Matthew de Gruci he is now out in jail.

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Speaker 1: That's the opening story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who murdered his mother and siblings. And it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: I always say why, why would you do that? Like

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Speaker 2: battered them to death? Like brutally. I was like, what

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Speaker 2: possesses someone? I'm not saying that myself. I could be

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Speaker 2: capable of something put under enough pressure. I think we are.

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Speaker 2: But you know, just it's like what the hell? Like

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Speaker 2: I want to know the why, But sometimes you don't

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Speaker 2: find out the why.

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Speaker 1: Do you know? Sometimes there is no obvious reason, and

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Speaker 1: other times I suspect there's something deep and it's just

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Speaker 1: not to make excuses for people, but often there's something

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Speaker 1: bad happened to them when they're young themselves. Yeah, probably

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Speaker 1: three out of four that's the case, I think.

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Speaker 2: Particularly, I know a lot of the cases I have

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Speaker 2: listened to you talk about, and you've written about the

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Speaker 2: men who came up through the boys institutions. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the damage done there. You can't deny that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the stone killers, absolute cold blood of killers nearly

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Speaker 1: always have suffered in those sort of places. Yeah, probably

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Speaker 1: those places or at schools, yep, and it just whoops

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Speaker 1: them when they stay whooped. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I work in my day job is to do

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Speaker 2: communications and advocacy for an organization that provides mental health

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Speaker 2: services and really good you know, NDAs stuff, and you

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Speaker 2: know a lot of forensic disability. They do work with

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Speaker 2: a lot of forensic disability stuff, and you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot to be said about you know, when a

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Speaker 2: child is in their first three years of life, if

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Speaker 2: attachment is disrupted, it completely changes the brain and also

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Speaker 2: then how that person sees the world and in track.

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Speaker 2: So sometimes you think, well, no, wonder you know there's

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Speaker 2: stuff like that happening.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, dysfunctional, disjointed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just just not able to formulate relationships well

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Speaker 2: or making choices that you know aren't great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're different from everybody else. Yeah, that's true. Now, Lucky. Last,

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Speaker 1: if you were talking to friends about what you've just done,

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Speaker 1: what's one of the others that you would pick out here?

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Speaker 1: What's the overseas when you've done? Apart from the chocolate

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Speaker 1: I actually.

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Speaker 2: Wrote about, there was the murdering near Christmas in twenty

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Speaker 2: ten in Brighton of a young woman called Joanna Yates.

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Speaker 2: And look, there's sadly there are always murders, right, but

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Speaker 2: there seemed to be like a number of these kind

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Speaker 2: of murders in the UK that happened. And Joanna was

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Speaker 2: you know, like lived in a like a converted It

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Speaker 2: was an old house that's converted into apartments, you know,

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Speaker 2: those kind of old like Victorian homes, and you know

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Speaker 2: with her lived with their boyfriend and you know, she

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Speaker 2: was a landscape gardener. Like just life was good. You

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Speaker 2: know her her boyfriend was away visiting family, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: she just disappeared. He didn't hear from her. He was

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Speaker 2: coming home, came home, she wasn't there, and you know,

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Speaker 2: there was a big search on, like a you know,

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Speaker 2: a young woman goes missing, We know that there's always

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Speaker 2: a lot of attention. You know, sometimes you know, other

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Speaker 2: crimes don't get as much attention, but yeah, young women

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Speaker 2: goes missing. Where is she? And they had like massive, massive,

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Speaker 2: you know investigation for the police force in that area.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, that next door neighbor who she didn't even know,

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Speaker 2: this guy who you know had a porn addiction, you know,

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Speaker 2: a bit shady, but did you know he was a like,

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Speaker 2: had a very respectable job, was Dutch born, he had

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend himself. Yeah, he killed her.

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Speaker 1: Dutch porn addict do it everything?

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Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, when they searched through, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of stuff that wasn't great, but yes,

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Speaker 2: they found poor Joanna dog Walkers founder actually and it

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Speaker 2: was near Christmas. But it took a while to arrest

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Speaker 2: this guy, Vincent Tabac. And but what happened in between

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Speaker 2: is the person who owned the building that Joanna and

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Speaker 2: her boyfriend rented the apartment and also her killer. He was,

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Speaker 2: you know, a bit of a like quirky bird, you know,

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Speaker 2: like English eccentric kind of thing. Christopher Jeffries. Now, what

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Speaker 2: happened in the space between you know, finding Joanna, you know,

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Speaker 2: and charging someone's the British tabloids in the way they

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Speaker 2: do kind of well, like this guy's a perf, this

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Speaker 2: guy's dodgy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was on like he was. The jury of

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Speaker 1: public opinion hounded the wrong led.

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Speaker 2: They actually made a TV show about it, just what happened.

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Speaker 1: In Perth with the Claremont killings. They blamed, the police

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Speaker 1: blamed and made it clear they were blaming that man

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Speaker 1: who lives with his parents in and he was surrounded

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Speaker 1: by cameras and attention and finger pointing for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course, by chance, the real killer walked

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Speaker 1: into the net. Yeah, and they blamed the wrong bloke

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Speaker 1: for a long time. The Perth police are got a

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Speaker 1: terrible record for that sort of stuff. They hang the

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Speaker 1: wrong guy over there once.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean obviously, like as we're recording this,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's been that terrible murders of the two

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Speaker 2: police officers in Northeast Victoria, and I always think, God,

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Speaker 2: what a bloody hard job.

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Speaker 1: Oh terrible.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes when you're researching, you and there's there's just

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Speaker 2: like I was rewatching Line of Duty, you know, the

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Speaker 2: the UK series.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: My husband actually was a police officer and isn't really

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Speaker 2: that into crime, but we've been watching it and I

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Speaker 2: just thought, you know, corrupt police. It's really bad because

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Speaker 2: it's such a breach of trust. It's a bleach of

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Speaker 2: like it's really shocking, like when you just fit someone

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Speaker 2: up for very bad you know, cold blooded and it's yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's about yeah, and it's just so it's such a

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Speaker 2: letdown to the community. Back to the story, This man

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Speaker 2: Chris Jeffreys, and look, he was a bit eccentric, had

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Speaker 2: wild white hair, you know, very smart. He was questioned

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Speaker 2: obviously because he's a landlord, you've got a question him.

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Speaker 2: But he was arrested, questioned, released without charge on police

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Speaker 2: bail for a bit. But when news broke about that,

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Speaker 2: the tabloids just zeroed in, you know, calling him a

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Speaker 2: creepy loaner, peeping Tom in newspapers. He ended up actually

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Speaker 2: getting some compensation for that, you know, and TV series

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Speaker 2: was made about it, about his ideas. You know, once

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Speaker 2: it started going, it was like, and you know, they

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Speaker 2: you are physically under a lot of threat if people

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Speaker 2: think you're responsible for something.

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Speaker 1: Of course you know you can't. But yeah, but that

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Speaker 1: was a really down hotels and things. Oh god, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you didn't see outside of sign where a doctor who

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Speaker 1: looked after children sign saying that he was practicing pediatrician

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Speaker 1: and the plebs all thought it is a pedophile. They

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Speaker 1: carried signs and through rotten exacting or something. That's the

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Speaker 1: great unwashed.

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Speaker 2: I know, I did see something online it made me laugh.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: They're painting the George Cross on roundabouts in the UK

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Speaker 2: at the moment. In England, some of them had accidentally

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Speaker 2: painted the Danish flag, just got the colors reversed. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: stay in school, kids, like that's what you need. But

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Speaker 2: you know, the upshot of this was that you know,

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Speaker 2: a family like Vincent to back was convicted. He's got

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Speaker 2: a very very long stretch. I probably won't get out.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think in the UK they do tend

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Speaker 2: to do pretty long sentences. The Constable, the Chief Constable

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Speaker 2: of Avon and Somerset Police gave an official apology to

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Speaker 2: Christopher Jeffries. He you know, won apologies and substantial damages

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Speaker 2: from eight newspapers, so it was across the board.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't just one news leaking stories to the papers

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Speaker 1: some of.

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Speaker 2: The Yeah, but what's really nice, I guess a nice

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Speaker 2: way to end a very tragic story is Joanna was

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Speaker 2: a She was a landscape architect and she had spent

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Speaker 2: her time during school working at a you know, a

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Speaker 2: gardens and they actually made a really beautiful butterfly garden

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Speaker 2: for her in memory because yeah, her parents you know,

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Speaker 2: approved the design and they just feel the days where

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Speaker 2: she was happiest.

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Speaker 1: So that's lovely. So that's your UK story is one

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Speaker 1: of as you said, probably eighteen or so, roughly creepy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, some are longer than you know when you're writing.

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Speaker 2: Some longer than others. But I do like to dig

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Speaker 2: and I always say I'll never write another book.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, I probably will you probably will.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy how many have you done?

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Speaker 2: Done well? Currently? I've got like three out. I did

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Speaker 2: one on healthcare, serial killers, that's my special subtopic. But

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Speaker 2: you know, i'd written books before that went out of

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Speaker 2: print and then yeah, republished. So all in all, I've

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Speaker 2: written about six, but you know they're not all in print.

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Speaker 2: But over I don't know a long time, but I've

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Speaker 2: definitely feel like I'm I like to try and get

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Speaker 2: better each time I do it. I reread stuff sometimes I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like, well that's only way to improve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, although your books are pretty great as they are always.

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Speaker 2: I reread The Evil You a while ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I did.

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Speaker 2: I've got a copy of that.

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Speaker 1: Ye creepy story. Yeah, Robert Arthur Selby low no good

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Speaker 1: at all. No. All right, Emily Web, you've come in

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Speaker 1: and we've seen you, and I think we'll probably see

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Speaker 1: you again when you do your next book, if we're

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Speaker 1: all still around.

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Speaker 2: I know, well, I hope so. And I love your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Keep going. I've got so many favorite episodes that I

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Speaker 2: sometimes too, So let's keep it going forever.

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Speaker 1: You got too much spare time.

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00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: To do it? Well, I'm walking the dogs or doing

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00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: the dishes.

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00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: You know.

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00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: That's why podcasts are good.

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00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: That's good. Give dogs plural.

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00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: I've got two greyhounds, risky greyhounds.

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00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: Got there? How about that? They eat much?

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00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: They do, actually, but they don't. They don't need a

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Speaker 2: lot of walking like I do walk them every day.

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Speaker 2: But they just love being around you and just laysing around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Lovely, Well that's lovely, Emily Web, crime writer. Where

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Speaker 1: do you get your new book Murdering the Suburbs.

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00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 2: Well, it's in all good bookstores. So if you go

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00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: to a local shopping center and go to your local

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00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: bookstore there it's there. You can ask your independent bookstore

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00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: to order it in and it's also available online to

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00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: order from the usual places.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Emily Web. We're going to knock off now

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Speaker 1: and probably have a couple of coffee or tea.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thanks Andrew.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald

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00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton.

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00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot

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00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: com dot au, forward slash Andrew rule one word. For

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00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: advertising inquiries, go to News Podcasts sold at News dot

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00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: com dot Au. That is all one word news podcast's sold.

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00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 1: And if you want further information about this episode, links

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00:24:49,080 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: are in the description. Can I Go