WEBVTT - Why Plibersek’s "nature positive" plans won’t fix the environment

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Protecting Australia's environment is a matter of urgency, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least that's what the Albaneze government campaigned on two and

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<v Speaker 1>a half years ago. But now with environmental legislation stalling

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<v Speaker 1>in the Senate and a series of announcements lacking detail,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a sense that the government's priorities have shifted. Today

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<v Speaker 1>Director of the Australia Institute's Climate and Energy Program, Polly

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<v Speaker 1>Hemming on the rhetoric of nature positivity and the inaction

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<v Speaker 1>at hides. It's Tuesday, October eighth. Polly, thank you for

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<v Speaker 1>joining me. Start. Could you paint a picture of what

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<v Speaker 1>the Albnezy government has promised when it comes to protecting

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<v Speaker 1>the environment.

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<v Speaker 2>So after the twenty twenty two election, Environment Minister Tanya

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<v Speaker 2>Plebisek gave an address to the National Press Club where

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<v Speaker 2>she released the State of the Environment Report, which had

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<v Speaker 2>been delayed by the previous government.

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<v Speaker 3>Today, as part of my statutory duty as Minister, i

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<v Speaker 3>am publicly releasing the twenty twenty one State of the

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<v Speaker 3>Environment Report. It's one of the most important documents in

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<v Speaker 3>environmental science.

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<v Speaker 2>And it basically laid bare just how serious the state

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<v Speaker 2>of Australia's environmental decline is.

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<v Speaker 3>We deserve to know that Australia has lost more mammal

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<v Speaker 3>species to extinction than any other continent. We deserve to

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<v Speaker 3>know that threatened communities have grown by twenty percent in

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<v Speaker 3>the last five years, with places literally burned into endangerment

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<v Speaker 3>by catastrophic fires.

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<v Speaker 2>She really indicated that this was going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>new regime and that the environment would be front and center.

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<v Speaker 3>In twenty twenty two, Australians voted for the environment, They

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<v Speaker 3>voted for action on climate change.

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<v Speaker 2>The Albanizi government committed to no new extinctions. They said

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<v Speaker 2>they would conserve thirty percent of terrestrial and marine environments

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<v Speaker 2>by twenty thirty. But really the centerpiece and what the

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<v Speaker 2>minister keeps coming back to, and what she really signaled

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<v Speaker 2>in her first speech to the Press club, was about

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<v Speaker 2>fixing broken laws that had been letting everyone down, letting

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<v Speaker 2>the environment down.

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<v Speaker 3>The previous government was told loud and clear that Australian

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<v Speaker 3>environmental laws were not working and they did nothing to

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<v Speaker 3>fix that. Almost two years ago, the Morrison government received

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<v Speaker 3>an official review into the environmental protection and biodiverse the

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<v Speaker 3>Conservation Act.

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<v Speaker 2>These laws that she's referring to, they're always referred to

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<v Speaker 2>as nature laws. It's a big body of legislation that's

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<v Speaker 2>about one thousand pages long that is called the Environmental

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<v Speaker 2>Protection and Bidiversity Conservation Act. And that's what she means

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<v Speaker 2>by nature laws. And they said they would have kind

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<v Speaker 2>of draft nature reform laws by the end of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three and proposal for an independent Environmental protection Authority.

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<v Speaker 2>What that translated into, I think in about December twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two was the government's Nature Positive Plan. Literally that's

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<v Speaker 2>the title.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So this term nature positive, where does it come from?

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<v Speaker 2>It's been compared to the term net zero. There is

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<v Speaker 2>a global initiative that came up with an official definition

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<v Speaker 2>of nature positive.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm extremely pleased to share that we've achieved a Montreal

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<v Speaker 4>moment for nature. De kun mean Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework

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<v Speaker 4>is a major win for our planet and for all

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<v Speaker 4>of humanity.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's meant to be the equivalent of the one

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<v Speaker 2>point five degrees goal in the Paris Agreement that exists

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<v Speaker 2>for climate ambition.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think the next step for many of our countries,

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<v Speaker 4>certainly including Miami in Canada is to develop legislation to

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<v Speaker 4>enshrine the targets that we've agreed to here in Montreal as.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of the In December twenty twenty two, this Nature

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<v Speaker 2>Positive ambition was codified in the Global Biodiversity Framework, which

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<v Speaker 2>was basically meant to commit the world to halting and

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<v Speaker 2>reversing biodiversity loss by twenty thirty. So the definition itself,

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<v Speaker 2>like the technical definition, is halt and reverse nature loss

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<v Speaker 2>by twenty thirty on a twenty twenty baseline and achieve

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<v Speaker 2>full recovery by twenty fifty.

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<v Speaker 3>Our government is getting on with our goal of delivering

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<v Speaker 3>a nature positive Australia, anature positive Australia, which means.

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<v Speaker 2>The Australian government has adopted the terminology of nature positive.

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<v Speaker 2>They've also included it in legislation. However, they haven't used

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<v Speaker 2>that technical global definition that was codified in the Biodiversity Framework,

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<v Speaker 2>and it just says that regard has to be had

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<v Speaker 2>about whether there's improvement and there's no timeline. Basically, these

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<v Speaker 2>things are going to be determined by government agencies. So

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<v Speaker 2>you can see already there's a lot of wiggle room there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's treated a bit like interpretive dance by government and industry.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's more a vibe or a feeling. And

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<v Speaker 2>as a result, the Australian government's definition of nature positive

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<v Speaker 2>has I guess been scrutinized and criticized by a number

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<v Speaker 2>of scientists working in this area.

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<v Speaker 1>So it sounds like the phrase nature positive is really

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<v Speaker 1>being used as branding and has become removed from its

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<v Speaker 1>actual definition. But what does that mean for the environment,

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<v Speaker 1>for actual outcomes?

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<v Speaker 2>Amid all these terms, amid all the talking, big promises,

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<v Speaker 2>handringing about the environment, at no point as the Australian

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<v Speaker 2>government ever said we will stop doing harm. They've never

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<v Speaker 2>said we will stop subsidizing harm. So it's fine to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about this idea of nature positive. But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>if Kohalas are being killed because their habitat is being destroyed,

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<v Speaker 2>the way to save them seems pretty obvious. You stop

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<v Speaker 2>destroying their habitat. Governments have made announcements about not doing

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<v Speaker 2>harm before. In fact, labor governments stopped the Franklin River

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<v Speaker 2>from being dam Labor governments halted mining exploitation in Antarctica.

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<v Speaker 2>They stopped logging in the Dane Tree, They protected the

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<v Speaker 2>Tasmanian wilderness. Instead of our leaders saying and this is

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<v Speaker 2>state and federal leaders instead of them saying we are

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<v Speaker 2>going to stop harm from happening. There's this assembly line

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<v Speaker 2>of constant announcements that are not necessarily bad, but they're

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<v Speaker 2>largely about making it look like something is happening rather

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<v Speaker 2>than doing anything meaningful. And the nature positive retric is

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<v Speaker 2>a central part of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break, the push for a federal

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<v Speaker 1>body to protect the environment and why it's stalled. Federal

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<v Speaker 1>government has adopted this language around being quote nature positive,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's going hard. This week it's hosting what's been

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<v Speaker 1>billed as the first ever global Nature Positive Summit. So

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<v Speaker 1>what should we expect?

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<v Speaker 2>So, I think we've probably established that Australia's environment is

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<v Speaker 2>in a pretty bad way, according to the government's own

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<v Speaker 2>State of the Environment would report. I think the term

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<v Speaker 2>is that it is officially poor and deteriorating. Ecosystems are

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<v Speaker 2>collapsing for a number of reasons, climate change, habitat loss,

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<v Speaker 2>invasive species, pollution. We've got one of the worst extinction

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<v Speaker 2>rates in the world. So as part of its efforts

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<v Speaker 2>to address this situation, the Australian government announced last year

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<v Speaker 2>that Australia would be hosting the world's first global Nature

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<v Speaker 2>Positive Summit.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi, everyone, I'm so excited that Australia is hosting the

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<v Speaker 3>world's first global Nature Positive Summit.

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<v Speaker 5>The summit will bring together leaders and experts to get

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<v Speaker 5>agreement on the next steps to turbocharge investment and reporting

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<v Speaker 5>on nature. The Australian Government's doing more than ever.

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<v Speaker 2>To mat and this seems like a pretty good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when you think about nature or the environment,

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<v Speaker 2>probably you think a summit like this would feature scientists, cologists, conservationists, policymakers, academics,

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<v Speaker 2>traditional owners. If you look at the agenda of the summit,

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<v Speaker 2>it's largely a financial event. And I really want to

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<v Speaker 2>read you one of the program sessions because it just

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<v Speaker 2>gets to a really important point I want to make.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's a session called Unlocking the Future of Biodiversity Markets,

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<v Speaker 2>and this session is going to delve into emerging opportunities

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<v Speaker 2>for the convergence and interoperability of carbon and biodiversity markets.

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<v Speaker 2>The session will highlight the role of markets as a

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<v Speaker 2>key mechanism to unlock new sources of finance to achieve

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<v Speaker 2>local and global nature positive goals, and for the absence

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<v Speaker 2>of any doubt, I just want to reassure everyone listening

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<v Speaker 2>who wonders what any of this means. It doesn't mean anything.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the worst kind of financial jargon, and it

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<v Speaker 2>kind of feeds into that really vague terminology around the environment.

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<v Speaker 2>We're now hearing about nature based solutions, natural capital, green finance,

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<v Speaker 2>climate finance, and that's kind of what this whole summit

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<v Speaker 2>is about. It's not about how do we stop doing harm.

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<v Speaker 2>It's this idea that while it's very sad that our

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<v Speaker 2>ecosystem a collapsing, the government can't afford to protect or

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<v Speaker 2>restore the environment, and so the private sector needs to

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<v Speaker 2>step in. And what has been proposed and what the

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<v Speaker 2>basis of this summit is is that environmental markets and

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<v Speaker 2>financial instruments are the means by which the private sector

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<v Speaker 2>will want to voluntarily invest in the protection of the

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<v Speaker 2>environment because there is some kind of profit to be made.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So presumably the federal government would like to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to announce that there is some movement in this space,

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<v Speaker 1>that it has some sort of nature positive news to share.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think there will be anything?

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<v Speaker 2>So if I take that question literally and we think

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<v Speaker 2>about the term nature positive, positive implies that things are

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<v Speaker 2>getting better. Australia's greenhouse gas emissions are increasing, land clearing

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<v Speaker 2>is increasing, native forest logging is still happening. The more

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<v Speaker 2>gene skate is on the brink of extinction. So I

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<v Speaker 2>don't even know if we're heading towards nature neutral here,

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<v Speaker 2>let alone nature positive. So we're one of the richest

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<v Speaker 2>countries in the world. If the government was actually committed

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<v Speaker 2>to this concept of nature positive, what we would be

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<v Speaker 2>hearing from Minister Plibisec at the Nature Positive Summit would

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<v Speaker 2>be first announcements about ending harm. You can't be nature

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<v Speaker 2>positive until you stop being nature negative, so an internative

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<v Speaker 2>forest logging, an end to subsidizing fossil fuels and end

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<v Speaker 2>to new fossil fuel projects, and then you would start

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<v Speaker 2>on the positive stuff. So there would be announcements about

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<v Speaker 2>how to build on that. We're going to give money

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<v Speaker 2>to farmers to help manage their lands. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>give our First Nations people the resources to live on

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<v Speaker 2>and care for their land with no strings attached. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to dedicate the resources to the protection and restoration

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<v Speaker 2>on the environment, as if our lives depended on it

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<v Speaker 2>because our lives do depend on it, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>if none of that is in her speech, if there

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<v Speaker 2>are no announcements like that at the Nature Positive Summit,

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<v Speaker 2>then it's going to be more buzzwords and more delay.

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<v Speaker 1>But poly there are laws being put together right now,

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<v Speaker 1>aren't there. Environmental laws are being debated in the Senate

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<v Speaker 1>that would put in place a federal body to protect

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<v Speaker 1>the environment, a federal EPA. So what difference would that make.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's really important to clarify two things that

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<v Speaker 2>while these environment laws they're kind of framed as this

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<v Speaker 2>enormous camera of all the things that will protect our ecosystem,

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<v Speaker 2>they're actually not their development laws, and they're designed to

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<v Speaker 2>protect the environment in that context only, so the EPA

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<v Speaker 2>would never be a silver bullet for protecting the environment

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<v Speaker 2>from all bad things that are happening. So yes, these

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<v Speaker 2>things are really important. These laws have a specific purpose,

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<v Speaker 2>but the way they're sold under the auspice of nature

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<v Speaker 2>laws is that they are everything that is required in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia to protect the environment, and only once these laws

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<v Speaker 2>are reformed can the environment be protected. Until then, the

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<v Speaker 2>government's hands are basically tied. While the Nature laws are

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<v Speaker 2>being delayed. There are over twenty gas and coal projects

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<v Speaker 2>waiting for approval that can now be approved under the

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<v Speaker 2>old regime, and Minister Plibisec can say, well, guys, I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really want to do this, but I have no

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<v Speaker 2>choice because we don't have the right nature laws in place.

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<v Speaker 2>So it really suits a government who is supportive of

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<v Speaker 2>fossil fuel expansion to blame these broken laws.

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<v Speaker 1>Polly, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks Ruby.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, the New South Wales government

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<v Speaker 1>is investigating a coal mine in great To Sydney after

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<v Speaker 1>reports the min's operation caused damage to a culturally significant

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<v Speaker 1>piece of artwork. Local indigenous leaders have likened the damage

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<v Speaker 1>to Rio Tinto's blasting of a sacred cave in juk

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<v Speaker 1>and Gorge, claiming the owners of the coal mine are

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<v Speaker 1>trying to cover it up in the same way, and

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade says Australia will

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<v Speaker 1>not apologize for its comments condemning Iran's recent missile attacks

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<v Speaker 1>on Israel. Last week, Iran launched a direct attack against

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<v Speaker 1>Israel in response to Israel's dual assassinations of Hamas leader

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<v Speaker 1>Ismaalhania and Hesbola's chief, Hassan Nasrala. Defat's statement comes after

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian ambassador to Iran was summoned to a meeting

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<v Speaker 1>with the Iranian Foreign Ministry due to what it called

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<v Speaker 1>Australia's repeated bias commentary on Iran's actions against Israel. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Ruby Jones. This is seven am. See tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 4>Hello one