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Speaker 1: Appoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the

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Speaker 1: CEO Series. This series we launch into the new world

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Speaker 1: of brave leadership. Happy people create happy businesses, true emotionally

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Speaker 1: intelligent leadership. I've picked up vombit once on our about

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Speaker 1: our four flight and everybody thought, well, if it's good

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Speaker 1: enough for him, I can do it.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and

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Speaker 1: some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth

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Speaker 1: behind their brave leadership journeys. Welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: Brave Always the CEO series. So this is actually a

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Speaker 1: pretty special one for me today. If you're from Queensland,

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Speaker 1: or you're an ERL fan, or probably any sporting fan.

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Speaker 1: This man needs no introduction, but he's played more than

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Speaker 1: three hundred n Ral games, twenty nine Origin matches, thirty

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Speaker 1: two Tests for the Kangaroos. Is a delim Award winner,

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Speaker 1: two time Premiership winner and a Rugby World Cup winner.

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Speaker 1: He's Alarican of football, the guy who once had a

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Speaker 1: giant curly mop, the guy I have seen way too

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Speaker 1: many times in a budguy, smuggler, but most importantly, someone

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Speaker 1: I've had the privilege of being friends with nearly fourteen years.

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Speaker 1: What come, mister Sammy Thurday.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for the backhanded compliments. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: I had to mention the hair because.

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Speaker 2: I do have to. I didn't win a Daly Am.

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Speaker 1: I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I want a Dallly m Backrower of the Year. The

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Speaker 2: Daly is well, the Dallim is the best player in

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Speaker 2: the whole league. I want a positional I.

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Speaker 1: Just wanted to correct about it. We'll just let that go.

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Speaker 2: No, no, because I told you I wasn't going to

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Speaker 2: lie to you today on this.

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Speaker 1: All right, all right, fair enough? Where to start, Sammy?

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Speaker 1: This was an interesting one for me because I have

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Speaker 1: known you for so long and I thought this would

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Speaker 1: be super easy.

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Speaker 2: You know me, but you don't.

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Speaker 1: Actually, Oh rah, well, Sammy born in Sydney, moved to

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Speaker 1: Townsville when you're four years old. I didn't know all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. And that's where you grew up in North Queensland.

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Speaker 1: Growing up in Townsville. What's the best thing about Townsville?

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Speaker 2: For me? As a kid? Growing up in Townsville was great.

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Speaker 2: I was a sporty kid and there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of different sports around. I tried my hand at everything. Again,

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Speaker 2: having a lot of brothers to kind of place with.

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Speaker 2: We had cricket bats, basketball hoops, baseball bats. My poor

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Speaker 2: mum and dad. We had all the correct equipment when

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Speaker 2: it came to playing those sports as well. So there's

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Speaker 2: probably some still some holes in the firebroough sheeting in

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Speaker 2: the back of the house where the cricket ball the

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Speaker 2: baseball had hit the at the wall. I probably do

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Speaker 2: need to get up there and fix that for mum

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Speaker 2: and dad.

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Speaker 1: They still have there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Mum and Dad's still in the house that we

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Speaker 2: kind of grew up in. You know. When we first

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Speaker 2: moved to Townsville, we're in defense housing, so we had

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Speaker 2: some pretty cool houses. And then Dad retired from the

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Speaker 2: Air Force and brought a house out at Kelso and

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Speaker 2: they've been living in that same house ever since.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, What was the worst thing about growing home

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Speaker 1: Townsville The heat?

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Speaker 2: It was always hot up there. I think now getting

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Speaker 2: out of Townsville and seeing different places. I've got some

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Speaker 2: fantastic mates who still live in Townsville and it's a

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Speaker 2: beautiful place and I love going back there and visiting.

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Speaker 2: But I do call Brisbane home now. I've lived in

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Speaker 2: Brisbane longer than I ever did live in Townsville, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can kind of feel a little bit stuck there sometimes,

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Speaker 2: and I think, yeah, moving to Brisbane as a seventeen

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Speaker 2: year old kid, you kind of open your eyes up

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Speaker 2: to the possibilities that there's a lot more things out there.

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Speaker 2: So again, beautiful little place forever growing Townshill and it

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Speaker 2: will always have a lovely place in my heart.

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Speaker 1: Was your dream to be drafted to the Cowboys?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially I played for Towns or Brothers. Towns of

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Speaker 2: Brothers literally was out the back of the grandstand of

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Speaker 2: the old stadium Dairy Farmer Stadium, Stockland Stadium one three

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Speaker 2: hundred smiles Stadium. It had a few different names, a

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Speaker 2: few different sponsors over the years. But yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: lucky enough to play a few games there as a

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Speaker 2: young kid, Curtain Raisers to a couple of the Cowboys

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Speaker 2: games and would have loved to have been picked up

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Speaker 2: by the Cowboys, but it just didn't work out that

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Speaker 2: way and insane that too. Moving to Brisbane gave me

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Speaker 2: the chance opportunity to grow up and change and probably

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Speaker 2: needed to get off the teat a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're a strong lad. Was fretty like do

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Speaker 1: you get sort of forced into footy. Was it a

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Speaker 1: footy family, Like, did you just have to play footy

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Speaker 1: or was that your thing? No, you've done something else.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't my thing.

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Speaker 1: Actually wasn't your thing.

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Speaker 2: From the age of six to the age of twelve,

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Speaker 2: we participated in the little athletics. Our club was called

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Speaker 2: the Appeross Pandas Mum and dad volunteered and worked pretty hard.

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Speaker 2: I think mum was a treasurer at one point there.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, our small little club ran out of money

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Speaker 2: and it ceased to exist. So I've probably still got

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Speaker 2: some junior records at yeah, yeah, sixty meter hurdles still

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Speaker 2: shot put. Wow.

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Speaker 1: As a long term friend of yours, imagining you leaping

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Speaker 1: over a hurdles not an image really strongly.

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Speaker 2: I used to love actually, I used to love hurdles

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid. Really yeah. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 2: strange sport. It is a strange sport. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to go the Olympics when I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: That was my dream and goal. If it wasn't for

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Speaker 2: Upper ross Pandas shutting down, I wouldn't never played rugby league.

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Speaker 1: So well, speaking of like a big part of growing

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Speaker 1: up your mum and dad. So your dad is obviously

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Speaker 1: toy straight Aunger and your mum if I read coruickly

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Speaker 1: and I've met your lovely mum and dad. Mum's from

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Speaker 1: a farm girl from mister Australia.

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Speaker 2: Farm girl from Western Australi.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean both very like your dad is, like

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Speaker 1: I would say, from what I've made of him, like

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Speaker 1: just the sweetest man. Like I feel like a lot

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Speaker 1: of your temperament must come from him. What did you

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Speaker 1: learn from mom? Because mom's a strong woman.

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Speaker 2: My mum taught us how to fight, and she taught

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Speaker 2: us how to kick a footy. So again, farm girl

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Speaker 2: from Western Australia, so she grew up in shearing sheds. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she knew how to fight with the best of them.

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Speaker 2: She always said, ye, let them have three punches first

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Speaker 2: and then you lay them out after that. Yeah, she's

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Speaker 2: a wild one, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: she is the softest human being ever. She's all front.

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Speaker 2: But my grandfather, Arthur, he pretty much worked on the

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Speaker 2: farm till the day he passed away. He had four

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Speaker 2: daughters to help him out on the farm. I think

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Speaker 2: Mum's reasoning why she joined the air Force was because

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Speaker 2: she didn't want to live that farm life anymore, so

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Speaker 2: she kind of joined the air Force and that's where

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Speaker 2: she met dad. Dad wanted to travel and get out

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Speaker 2: of the Torres Strait and moved down. I think they

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Speaker 2: were based out at Wagga Wagga there for a little

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Speaker 2: while and that's where they met. Yeah, right, her dad

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Speaker 2: was doing a four hundred meters running around the track

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Speaker 2: with his shirt off and beautiful chocolate man.

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Speaker 1: He is a beautiful chocolate man, speaking of wench like. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Mum and Dad have very different cultural backgrounds. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: did sort of coming from that mixed race family growing

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Speaker 1: up in Townswold. Was that a big deal and no

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Speaker 1: big deal at all?

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Speaker 2: Probably see an understanding a lot more now as a

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Speaker 2: an adult, But we were kids. We kind of just

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Speaker 2: went about it. But I could still remember Mum getting

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Speaker 2: a perm once because she just wanted to have curly

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Speaker 2: hair like us kids.

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Speaker 1: Are you serious?

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Speaker 2: But again, you know, this is early nineties. There is

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Speaker 2: a few more kind of mixed race families in Townsville

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Speaker 2: than certain other places. But you know, still Mum would

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Speaker 2: get people looking at her and see, I just thought

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Speaker 2: it was the best thing ever. Because I kind of

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Speaker 2: lived the best of both worlds, and my dad with

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Speaker 2: a rich cultural heritage from the Torres Strait, and then

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Speaker 2: my mum, you know, she was a staunch farmer from

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Speaker 2: Western Australia, and I didn't see a lot of it,

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Speaker 2: but I'm sure there was probably some stairs and stuff

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Speaker 2: that both mum and dad would have had to have

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Speaker 2: copped in the chin and just went about their ways.

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Speaker 2: I'm un sure if anything was ever said to them

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Speaker 2: about being a mixed race couple, but there's always going

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Speaker 2: to be people out there that are going to cast

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Speaker 2: their judgment on people.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever wonder like where did you identify culturally? Like?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that was probably my biggest struggle ever was I

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Speaker 2: was too black to be white and I was too

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Speaker 2: white to be black sometimes, So you know, that was

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a struggle that I went through,

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Speaker 2: especially through my teens, and not knowing where you belong,

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Speaker 2: not knowing where you fit in. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: probably why I leaned so much into my sport. And

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Speaker 2: I going only speak personally for myself. I didn't encounter

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Speaker 2: any racism when it come to sport at all. I

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Speaker 2: was disabled to go out there and enjoy all the

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Speaker 2: sports that I loved. There was no judgment passed on

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Speaker 2: me at all. So you know, when racism creeps into sport,

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Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely terrible because it's always been such

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Speaker 2: a great equalizer for everyone where we've given everyone the

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Speaker 2: chance and the opportunity to show their ability and I

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Speaker 2: think if their ability is great and they're chosen sport,

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Speaker 2: what they should be praised for it. So I didn't

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Speaker 2: experience any myself, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good, I agree sport is the great equalizer. So

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Speaker 1: you're seventeen years old when you get drafted to the Broncos,

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Speaker 1: I have to ask this, how does it work? Do

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Speaker 1: you a phone call or does like someone drive your

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Speaker 1: house and like there's balloons, like what happens.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit of a weird process. So there was

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Speaker 2: a few different recruiters that came up to towns and

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Speaker 2: literally sat in our house and had a cup of

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Speaker 2: tea with Mum and dad and a few different conversations.

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Speaker 2: But I think when the Broncos came calling, it was

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Speaker 2: a perfect fit. And again the ability to stay in Queensland.

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Speaker 2: So growing up in a big family environment where four brothers,

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Speaker 2: he had friends and family uncles and Arnie's that would

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Speaker 2: just pop in and come over for dinner and a

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Speaker 2: cup of tea and come and stay a couple of

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Speaker 2: nights and whatever. I grew up in a really really

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Speaker 2: big family environment, so I didn't want to move to

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Speaker 2: Sydney or move down to Melbourne. They were just going

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Speaker 2: to be too far and then you know, cost to

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Speaker 2: travel and all those types of things. So when the

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Speaker 2: Broncos came calling, I was super pumped to get the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to play for them, and I actually signed my

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Speaker 2: Broncos contract in the car park of the old Dairy

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Speaker 2: Farmer Stadium, which was a big Yeah, it kind of

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Speaker 2: a big fe to the Cowboys at that point in time,

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Speaker 2: but they had no space for me up there. I

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Speaker 2: just knew that the opportunity to go to Brisbane and

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Speaker 2: play with some of the players that were already on

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Speaker 2: the roster was probably why I end up having the

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Speaker 2: career that I have, you know, and being coached by

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Speaker 2: Wayne Bennett, having the mentors at the time he was

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Speaker 2: a coach at the time, having mentors, you know, my

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Speaker 2: first year at the club, Andrew g was still there,

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Speaker 2: he still had Gordon Tallis was still around and then

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Speaker 2: you had Gordon the Raging Ball, Yeah, Shane Webke, Petrosisiva

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Speaker 2: and these guys were Queensland Australia players at that point

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Speaker 2: in time. So I think, yeah, in hindsight, the move

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Speaker 2: was essential for my career and if I didn't do it,

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Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't have had the career I had. But

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Speaker 2: looking it was a pretty cool moment that the team

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Speaker 2: that didn't want me, I'm signing a contract in the

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Speaker 2: car park of their stadium. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But so you're still seventeen though, right, Like, how much

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Speaker 1: pressure did you film that moment? You're going to have

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Speaker 1: to move away from where you lived. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure in young people that coming through at that age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I wasn't on that. I didn't have the

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Speaker 2: biggest contract in the world. On my first side. There

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Speaker 2: was a few like NRL bonuses in there if I

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Speaker 2: had made the NL team and played in a game,

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Speaker 2: but they were probably a lot higher than my contract

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Speaker 2: was in all honesty. So I think I got like

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Speaker 2: medical and then I had to apply for some living

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Speaker 2: away from home allowance and also some rental assistance. But

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Speaker 2: I think my first contract was like five thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: plus those things, and then if I played in an

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Speaker 2: NL game was like a five thousand dollars bonus. I

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Speaker 2: knew that I was coming down to play in the colts,

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Speaker 2: so they're under nineteens competition and my goal in that

246
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Speaker 2: first year was just to play a bit of reserve

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Speaker 2: grade footy if I could. So we played for the

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Speaker 2: tom of Clydes Dales at that point in time, that

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Speaker 2: was our feeder team in the NRAL, and I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to hopefully get a few games playing for them,

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Speaker 2: and it all kind of happened pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: My dead because four years later you wants win a premiership.

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Speaker 2: I debut was my first year at the club, which

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Speaker 2: was kind of funny because my first two months of training,

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Speaker 2: so I came down first to November, were just just

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Speaker 2: before I literally finished high school, graduated, went to our

257
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Speaker 2: graduation and then the next week I'm in Brisbane training

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Speaker 2: And in my first year I debuted for the Broncos.

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Speaker 2: I was eighteen in one month. Once I had a taste,

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Speaker 2: I was hooked, and it's funny the goals always changed

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Speaker 2: and you always move in the posts, and you know,

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Speaker 2: my goal was just to have a solid season in

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Speaker 2: the colts. In two thousand and three and play a

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Speaker 2: few games with Queensland Cup if I could, and I

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Speaker 2: that tick that, and then I ended up debuling for

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Speaker 2: the Broncos. I was like going to after So next

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Speaker 2: year I played one game. Next year I want to

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Speaker 2: play five games. Okay, the following year, I want to

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Speaker 2: be more consistent, play more games, maybe even get a

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Speaker 2: few starting positions. So forever, just reassessing goals, figuring out

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Speaker 2: what they are and trying to achieve them and push hard.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, very very early in my career, two thousand

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Speaker 2: and six we won a premiership. I was twenty one,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, it was probably the best year of my

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Speaker 2: rugular league career. They booed for Queensland that year. I

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Speaker 2: had my twenty first birthday in Origin camp, which was

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun. Yeah, and then we won the

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Speaker 2: premiership and then off the back of the team's success

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Speaker 2: side then get the opportunity to play for Australia at

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Speaker 2: the end of the year. I think it was a

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Speaker 2: Try Nations series with New Zealand and England. I think

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Speaker 2: I played twenty minutes for Australia in the game that

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Speaker 2: I dibuoed, and and that was enough. I'd kind of

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Speaker 2: I'd done everything in one year, which is pretty crazy

285
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Speaker 2: and pretty hectic. So and at such a young age

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: Such a young age, I mean, what was it about

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Speaker 1: the Broncos in the two thousand and six the year

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Speaker 1: and the premiership? What were they doing?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is there something that a team does that you sort

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Speaker 1: of go That was the difference between why we won

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Speaker 1: that year and while we did in another years.

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Speaker 2: I look at the team now and I call it

295
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Speaker 2: our lasagna team because we had layers to it. When

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Speaker 2: you put a lasagna together and if it all matches, it's.

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Speaker 1: Just thinking about lasagna now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. See, that's why I brought it up, because I

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Speaker 2: know how much.

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Speaker 1: You love food. Yeah, thanks, but yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, every little bit of a lasagna had to come

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Speaker 2: together for us to win that game. So we had

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Speaker 2: layers and depth within our team. So we had our

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Speaker 2: senior players and in your Darren Lockears and Shane Webke,

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Speaker 2: Petro Simin receiver, Brad Thorne, and then you know the

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Speaker 2: next kind of guys underneath them. You had Corey Parker,

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Speaker 2: you had Dane carl or Brent Tate, guys that had

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Speaker 2: kind of been there and done some stuff. In the

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Speaker 2: inner already, Justin Hodges as well, and then you had

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Speaker 2: the next kind of younger guys that were coming through

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Speaker 2: trying to have a crack. And it was myself, David Staggs, Daris,

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Speaker 2: you had Carmichael Hunt. We had such a well balanced yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we had the experience of our older guys.

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Speaker 2: We had some guys that had been around and had

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Speaker 2: a taste of representative football as well, those middle chunks

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Speaker 2: of guys and then the bottom guys that the youth.

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Speaker 2: You know, myself, Carmichael, David Staggs, Darius Board. Where were

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Speaker 2: all these young kids bright eyed? I think it was

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Speaker 2: that was Darius's first year in the NL. We played

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Speaker 2: every game from Round one all the way to the

321
00:14:32,761 --> 00:14:35,201
Speaker 2: Grand Final, and you think you're going to be there

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Speaker 2: every year once you're a young kid, because we still

323
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Speaker 2: had majority of our squad around for a little while

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Speaker 2: after that. That was well, that was Shane Weep his last

325
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Speaker 2: game for the Broncos ever, and what a way to

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Speaker 2: send out a legend. But you know, I just thought

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Speaker 2: it was going to be easy and we're just going

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Speaker 2: to get to the Grand Final every year, and it

329
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Speaker 2: just kind of doesn't happen that way.

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Speaker 1: No, what does happen when you lose games? Like I'm

331
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Speaker 1: always fascinated what was happening in the locker room? Like

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Speaker 1: is it a bit ted lasso like, you know, is

333
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Speaker 1: it positive thinking, lift you up, you're all doing well boys,

334
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Speaker 1: or is it sort of frustration and anger? Like what

335
00:15:05,161 --> 00:15:06,801
Speaker 1: does it way towards? Or is it just depend on

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Speaker 1: the coach?

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Speaker 2: Well, everyone has their own different emotions, you know, from

338
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Speaker 2: a coach's point of view, like sometimes less is more.

339
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Speaker 2: I think Wayne Bennett talks about, you know, you've probably

340
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Speaker 2: only got two really good sprays every year and that's it.

341
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Speaker 2: So you know, where you come in, you absolutely rip

342
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Speaker 2: them a new one. I can still remember a moment

343
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Speaker 2: in time where Wayne Bennett came in. We were all

344
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Speaker 2: sitting in our little semicircle shape. His chair was right

345
00:15:31,041 --> 00:15:33,241
Speaker 2: in the middle. He sat down on it, and then

346
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Speaker 2: he looked at everyone. He stood up, and he walked out.

347
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Speaker 2: Didn't say a thing. We kind of knew at that

348
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Speaker 2: point in time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a silence, Yeah, like the naughty kid.

350
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, different people process it differently. Yeah, so

351
00:15:48,521 --> 00:15:51,081
Speaker 2: some guys in the locker rooms want to talk about

352
00:15:51,081 --> 00:15:53,721
Speaker 2: everything that happened in the game and really break it

353
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Speaker 2: down then and there when it's fresh in their mind.

354
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Speaker 2: Other guys want to get away and just kind of,

355
00:15:59,441 --> 00:16:03,921
Speaker 2: you know, we'll reassess on Monday type of thing. So, yeah,

356
00:16:03,961 --> 00:16:07,041
Speaker 2: different players is it differently, and you've got to kind

357
00:16:07,081 --> 00:16:10,241
Speaker 2: of know and understand which players are going to want

358
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Speaker 2: to have a talk to you about it, which players

359
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Speaker 2: are going to want to just brush it off. And

360
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Speaker 2: there are certain players that can kind of it's just

361
00:16:17,441 --> 00:16:17,801
Speaker 2: the game.

362
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Speaker 1: So the v of Brave is vulnerability. And I think

363
00:16:21,721 --> 00:16:24,961
Speaker 1: actually you've been incredibly vulnerable publicly, especially in the last

364
00:16:25,001 --> 00:16:26,601
Speaker 1: few years, about a number of things that we'll talk

365
00:16:26,601 --> 00:16:28,801
Speaker 1: about it later, but I want to talk about a

366
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Speaker 1: difficult moment your footy career. So obviously you were put

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Speaker 1: into captain c and then I think it was for

368
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Speaker 1: two seasons. Was its roughly? Yeah, like a rough a

369
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Speaker 1: year and a half, and then obviously you step down.

370
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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that was probably one of your more vulnerable

371
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Speaker 1: moments or overwhelming moments. Can you talk me through that

372
00:16:43,881 --> 00:16:44,121
Speaker 1: a bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to take over the captaincy after Darren Lockyer. Yeah,

374
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Speaker 2: and I joke about it now, Jesus, I must have

375
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Speaker 2: been a good captain because they needed two to replace me,

376
00:16:52,961 --> 00:16:56,601
Speaker 2: so Corey Parker and Justin Hodges were my replacements after

377
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Speaker 2: that point in time. But I really struggled being the

378
00:17:00,441 --> 00:17:02,961
Speaker 2: captain of the team because I was unsure on what

379
00:17:03,081 --> 00:17:05,920
Speaker 2: type of leader I wanted to be within the team.

380
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,281
Speaker 2: Without realizing I already was a leader and that's why

381
00:17:08,281 --> 00:17:11,321
Speaker 2: I was chosen to be captain. And in hindsight, it's

382
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Speaker 2: easy to look back and go, you're an idiot, but

383
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Speaker 2: you know, I tried to be every type of leader.

384
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Speaker 2: I tried to be the guy that was inspirational on

385
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Speaker 2: the field. I tried to be the guy that spoke

386
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 2: up at all the meetings. I tried to be the

387
00:17:23,201 --> 00:17:26,521
Speaker 2: guy that checked in on everyone. And then there were

388
00:17:26,521 --> 00:17:28,680
Speaker 2: times when I would walk around the chains rooms for

389
00:17:28,801 --> 00:17:31,081
Speaker 2: a game and I would have a conversation with sixteen

390
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,601
Speaker 2: players about what their job was and if they were

391
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,201
Speaker 2: ready to go, and without having the same conversation with myself.

392
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,801
Speaker 2: I probably struggled a little bit too with not having

393
00:17:41,281 --> 00:17:45,441
Speaker 2: strong leaders around me as well. You know, previously, when

394
00:17:45,521 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 2: Darren Lockey was a captain, he had some great players

395
00:17:47,721 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 2: around him still, and there was a bit of a

396
00:17:49,761 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 2: change and a shift at the club with coaching staff,

397
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 2: and I really felt if Wayne Bennett is at the

398
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,001
Speaker 2: Broncos at the time, I'm the captain. I think I

399
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 2: captained the team for a long period of time, but

400
00:18:01,561 --> 00:18:04,880
Speaker 2: you know, the support just wasn't there. So it was

401
00:18:05,201 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 2: very tough decision. This is again, that was one of

402
00:18:07,481 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 2: my goals to captain the Broncos and I got to

403
00:18:10,281 --> 00:18:12,801
Speaker 2: achieve it, which is brilliant and I will always be

404
00:18:12,921 --> 00:18:17,281
Speaker 2: known as a Broncos captain. But I wish I really

405
00:18:17,321 --> 00:18:20,201
Speaker 2: focused on myself more than other people when it came

406
00:18:20,241 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 2: to my captaincy and it was tough to front the

407
00:18:24,001 --> 00:18:25,681
Speaker 2: media and stand down.

408
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,721
Speaker 1: And how did you get through that?

409
00:18:27,961 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 2: I disappeared for a couple of days. Yeah, Rachel and

410
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,161
Speaker 2: I and the girls, we went up the Sunshine Coast

411
00:18:33,201 --> 00:18:35,641
Speaker 2: for a couple of days and just kind of laid

412
00:18:35,681 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 2: low and got my head around it and just needed

413
00:18:39,241 --> 00:18:40,881
Speaker 2: to do some grounding.

414
00:18:40,961 --> 00:18:42,360
Speaker 1: Did you want to be like, screw it, I'm not

415
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:43,281
Speaker 1: playing foot anymore.

416
00:18:43,441 --> 00:18:46,001
Speaker 2: Don't worry. I've had plenty of those moments throughout my

417
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 2: career where you know, the easy option is to walk away,

418
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 2: And again, at the age of twenty one, I had

419
00:18:51,761 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 2: achieved everything I wanted to anyway, you know, with the

420
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: list you mate, except for captaining the club. You know,

421
00:18:57,681 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 2: I had kind of ticked every box already, so I

422
00:19:00,481 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 2: needed some time to process it and get away, spend

423
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,441
Speaker 2: some time with family, some close friends, and then lucky

424
00:19:06,521 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 2: enough to have a game the following weekend.

425
00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:10,921
Speaker 1: The thing is is that you are a natural leader.

426
00:19:10,921 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean people always think of you that way, title

427
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 1: or not. I just think you kind of carried on

428
00:19:14,921 --> 00:19:16,521
Speaker 1: to be a leader of the Broncos leader.

429
00:19:16,801 --> 00:19:19,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, did.

430
00:19:19,761 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 1: It really matter that you had the title or not?

431
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,681
Speaker 2: Well, that's the hardest thing. Sometimes as soon as someone

432
00:19:23,681 --> 00:19:26,201
Speaker 2: tells you you're a leader, Yeah, it tickles your ego

433
00:19:26,281 --> 00:19:28,001
Speaker 2: a bit. Yeah, and then you think you have to

434
00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 2: start doing things that's different. Yeah, when Dale telling you

435
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,201
Speaker 2: you're a leader for the things that you already do,

436
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 2: and you know, I look back on that now and

437
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,521
Speaker 2: now I just try to be the best version of

438
00:19:39,561 --> 00:19:42,481
Speaker 2: Sam thought I can, whether it's doing the TV stuff

439
00:19:42,521 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 2: I do, whether it's the ambassador roles and that I do,

440
00:19:44,681 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 2: the charity work that I do. I just tried to

441
00:19:46,761 --> 00:19:49,561
Speaker 2: be the best version of myself, and that's all I

442
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,761
Speaker 2: could be. And if people see that as being a leader,

443
00:19:53,481 --> 00:19:54,641
Speaker 2: thank you. I appreciate that.

444
00:19:54,761 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 1: In footy when you were obviously earmarked when Darren was

445
00:19:57,921 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 1: leaving to take over captaincy, do you get put through

446
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 1: some kind of training or development to become a leader?

447
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,161
Speaker 2: Not necessarily, not at all, which.

448
00:20:05,921 --> 00:20:08,761
Speaker 1: I find fast Yeah. Yeah, because as a leadership coach,

449
00:20:08,801 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can't just throw people into that.

450
00:20:11,201 --> 00:20:14,121
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why I said that support system wasn't there.

451
00:20:14,241 --> 00:20:17,321
Speaker 2: If there was a different coaching staff there at the time,

452
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure it would have been different. There was a

453
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: few changes happening at the Broncos, from coaching staff to

454
00:20:21,961 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 2: all the office staff. Things were changing at the club

455
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,041
Speaker 2: and it was a time of big change. I think

456
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,881
Speaker 2: this might have been the first time that Wayne left

457
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,201
Speaker 2: the club. Yeah, so you know, he was the inaugural coach,

458
00:20:33,681 --> 00:20:36,041
Speaker 2: had been there from day one, right, he'd been there

459
00:20:36,041 --> 00:20:40,001
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty eight, and yeah, he kind of everyone

460
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,641
Speaker 2: find was weird times.

461
00:20:41,321 --> 00:20:44,641
Speaker 1: Forair, weird times. I want to talk about authenticity. It

462
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: was interesting one because I know a number of sides

463
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: of you, right, yeah, well your split persnel, and it

464
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,360
Speaker 1: is first knowing that people who then will know they

465
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: might know you personally, will ask about you, or they

466
00:20:57,721 --> 00:20:59,281
Speaker 1: have an idea in the head who you are and

467
00:20:59,321 --> 00:21:00,921
Speaker 1: what you're like. And I know you know this, right,

468
00:21:01,241 --> 00:21:04,561
Speaker 1: So do you believe it's easy to be yourself truly

469
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 1: yourself all the time?

470
00:21:05,921 --> 00:21:08,001
Speaker 2: I have many selves though, and I think we all.

471
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: Have many I was actually trying to contact those, right,

472
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,841
Speaker 1: because sometimes they want to put you in this category

473
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 1: of like Sammy the comedian, you know, which unfortunately you

474
00:21:14,921 --> 00:21:15,641
Speaker 1: are quite fuck Do.

475
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,481
Speaker 2: You remember that we're at that rooftop at one time

476
00:21:18,521 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: and I was up on stage speaking yes, and this

477
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,961
Speaker 2: was the first time you've ever saw at work y

478
00:21:23,241 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: like work properly worked, And what did you say to me?

479
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: I was like so impressed. I was like, oh my god,

480
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: you're not You're actually I was gonna say, was you're

481
00:21:33,681 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: really good at this?

482
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,441
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all smart at work, aren't we.

483
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: That's correct, we don't go there. But yeah, there's a

484
00:21:39,241 --> 00:21:41,521
Speaker 1: different side to me, you're right. So I think what

485
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: I was reflecting on was when people go is he

486
00:21:45,001 --> 00:21:48,801
Speaker 1: always like that loud, funny you know, singing clean Dion songs,

487
00:21:48,921 --> 00:21:50,561
Speaker 1: you know, his pants are always off kind of character,

488
00:21:50,561 --> 00:21:52,521
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, he's definitely that. And he's like, then

489
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,121
Speaker 1: is he the other guy who can be butit quiet

490
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:55,561
Speaker 1: and reflective. Yeah, he can be that too.

491
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,961
Speaker 2: I think Rachel gets the same questions asked. People think

492
00:21:59,961 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 2: that I'm intense because they knew me from football and

493
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: the way that I played on the football field. But

494
00:22:04,441 --> 00:22:06,481
Speaker 2: that was sam At the football player. And I think

495
00:22:06,521 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: growing up with brothers is like I always back my brothers.

496
00:22:09,041 --> 00:22:10,641
Speaker 2: I've got a tattoo on my chest it says one

497
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,201
Speaker 2: brother bleeds, all brothers bleeds. So when I played football,

498
00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:17,881
Speaker 2: I was, you know, in New South Wales known as

499
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,841
Speaker 2: third man thirday. He would come into every push and shove. Yeah,

500
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,521
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean that I'm that intense. At home.

501
00:22:24,761 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 2: I'm a father, my husband. I've got many hats, and

502
00:22:27,681 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: I think we all have many hats. And I show

503
00:22:29,761 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: up in every situation that I'm in my genuine self

504
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,561
Speaker 2: for that situation. So I have many genuine.

505
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: Selves mileon, Yeah, very genuine. I like that.

506
00:22:39,921 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's what we have to be.

507
00:22:41,961 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 2: You have to show up to every occasion being our

508
00:22:43,961 --> 00:22:47,001
Speaker 2: genuine selves selves myself.

509
00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, A good answer, actually, all right, So that's good, alright.

510
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen. The thing you've been doing your whole life

511
00:22:57,801 --> 00:23:00,441
Speaker 1: comes from end. Yeah, all right, and I was round

512
00:23:00,441 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 1: fit period, remember going your last game and all the

513
00:23:03,201 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: weeks and the T shirt like and there's not a

514
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: sporting person. I honestly don't believe it doesn't go through

515
00:23:10,281 --> 00:23:12,801
Speaker 1: a period of like, well what now or who am I?

516
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,481
Speaker 1: And I can only imagine given you started so young,

517
00:23:16,561 --> 00:23:19,281
Speaker 1: that was the same journey for you. Yeah, so what

518
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: surprised you about that period? What did you think it

519
00:23:21,201 --> 00:23:23,161
Speaker 1: was going to be like? And then wanted it actually.

520
00:23:22,921 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: Turned out to I didn't know. I had no idea.

521
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,721
Speaker 2: You think you're prepared, but you're not really. I start

522
00:23:28,801 --> 00:23:32,361
Speaker 2: again started playing rugby league at the age of twelve.

523
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: All my friends at school played it. I think I

524
00:23:35,481 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 2: made the Townsville team in my first year and we

525
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,241
Speaker 2: went and played against Cans and Mackay. I think the

526
00:23:42,281 --> 00:23:45,921
Speaker 2: following year made the North Queensland team and then I

527
00:23:45,961 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: was like, well, actually you are right at this. You

528
00:23:48,681 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: know it was a great way to focus anger and

529
00:23:51,721 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 2: frustration on other people and you could do it legally

530
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,921
Speaker 2: on the forefield. I think that's why my mum loved

531
00:23:56,961 --> 00:24:00,241
Speaker 2: it so much. But I was fifteen when a school

532
00:24:00,281 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: teacher at Kerwin High School recognized some of the talents

533
00:24:03,681 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 2: that I had as a rugby league player. His name's

534
00:24:05,681 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 2: George Barlett. Absolutely love him. Spoke to him on the

535
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 2: phone the other day. He's a deputy principal now at

536
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: bean Lee High School here in Queensland. But if it

537
00:24:14,321 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: wasn't for him and recognizing some of the talents I

538
00:24:17,961 --> 00:24:21,361
Speaker 2: had and pretty much giving me a kick in the ass,

539
00:24:21,521 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: reiterated to me that I was super talented at rugby

540
00:24:24,721 --> 00:24:27,481
Speaker 2: league and if I actually gave it a crack and

541
00:24:27,561 --> 00:24:31,321
Speaker 2: really trained hard and applied myself, that I could probably

542
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,241
Speaker 2: have a professional career. And he said to me, I'll

543
00:24:34,241 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: show up every day. You show up. And he had

544
00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:39,281
Speaker 2: to show up anyway because he was a teacher. He

545
00:24:39,321 --> 00:24:43,001
Speaker 2: had the keys of the gym. But for the next

546
00:24:43,041 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: kind of two years. It's in grade eleven and grade

547
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: twelve at school. I showed up and I did the

548
00:24:48,721 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 2: training early in the morning, and I had another friend,

549
00:24:51,961 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 2: Bevan Cameron, who would pick me up because it was

550
00:24:54,481 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 2: kind of you know, Mum had a household full of

551
00:24:58,041 --> 00:25:00,321
Speaker 2: My two younger brothers were there at the time. My

552
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: two older brothers had gone but she's like, I can't

553
00:25:02,681 --> 00:25:04,761
Speaker 2: drive you into school and then come back home and

554
00:25:04,761 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: get the boys ready to dive back in again. So

555
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,801
Speaker 2: had a friend picked me up, Evan Cameron. He picked

556
00:25:08,801 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 2: me up in him and his dad. We went to

557
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,921
Speaker 2: training every morning, got ready for you know, footy, and

558
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,761
Speaker 2: I needed a bit of a push. I needed a

559
00:25:16,801 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: bit of a kick in the ass, and George was

560
00:25:19,921 --> 00:25:22,281
Speaker 2: a guy that did that for me. It was absolutely

561
00:25:22,721 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 2: push in the right direction that I needed.

562
00:25:25,521 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: So it's just so much though about the impact that

563
00:25:28,521 --> 00:25:31,201
Speaker 1: a good teacher or mentor can have on a child,

564
00:25:31,681 --> 00:25:34,041
Speaker 1: right because on the other side of the spectrum.

565
00:25:33,761 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 2: There's a lot of shit teachers too. Yeah, and a

566
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: few as well. I loved science and biology at school.

567
00:25:39,921 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 2: I loved it and like fascinated with the human body.

568
00:25:43,241 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 2: But I had a science teacher who was nice to me,

569
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,681
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh fuck science. That I never

570
00:25:47,721 --> 00:25:48,241
Speaker 2: did it again.

571
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: You see. I had an art teacher who told me

572
00:25:50,281 --> 00:25:54,241
Speaker 1: at eleven, laughed at my artwork, which is subjective, right,

573
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: isn't it? Isn't it and said to me, you're terrible

574
00:25:57,761 --> 00:25:59,761
Speaker 1: at art. And I never got over it, and I

575
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,001
Speaker 1: quit anything creative until this day. I still say like,

576
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: if pictionary comes out, everyone in my team, I'm a

577
00:26:06,961 --> 00:26:10,801
Speaker 1: terrible drawer. Yeah, and it's like such a big impact.

578
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,921
Speaker 2: Yes, no, so true. So you got to think from

579
00:26:13,921 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: the age of fifteen, after someone you know, giving me

580
00:26:17,721 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 2: the confidence enough to go, actually I am talented to

581
00:26:20,201 --> 00:26:22,801
Speaker 2: the age of I can't even do the mask. But anyway,

582
00:26:22,961 --> 00:26:28,001
Speaker 2: so from the year two thousand to the year twenty

583
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 2: eighteen when you retired, my whole identity was attached to

584
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: being a rugby league player. So for eighteen years of

585
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: my life was like that's who I was, that's what

586
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,441
Speaker 2: I did, and that's who I am. So I think

587
00:26:41,521 --> 00:26:43,721
Speaker 2: walking away from rugby league at that point in time

588
00:26:44,281 --> 00:26:49,241
Speaker 2: was super hard because I still you know, I probably

589
00:26:49,321 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: kicked myself in the art for this one, but I

590
00:26:51,241 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 2: still thought I had a couple of.

591
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,601
Speaker 1: Good years left in me before you retire.

592
00:26:55,761 --> 00:26:57,481
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I still reckon I could have played a

593
00:26:57,521 --> 00:26:58,561
Speaker 2: couple more years of football.

594
00:26:58,721 --> 00:26:59,561
Speaker 1: So why did you retire?

595
00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: Because I was stubborn and didn't want to leave the Broncos.

596
00:27:02,961 --> 00:27:06,121
Speaker 2: For me, there was this loyalty attach to the Brisbane Broncos,

597
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,281
Speaker 2: and I think the prestige of being known as a

598
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: one team player really, so I can rewind back to

599
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,281
Speaker 2: there was a big split when I was a kid

600
00:27:16,281 --> 00:27:19,521
Speaker 2: with all my mates from school and then all the

601
00:27:19,521 --> 00:27:22,241
Speaker 2: guys that I played football with so at a club

602
00:27:22,321 --> 00:27:25,201
Speaker 2: level when I was a junior coming through at Brothers.

603
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,801
Speaker 2: All my friends from my primary school played at Brothers.

604
00:27:29,041 --> 00:27:32,321
Speaker 2: When we got to high school, the private school kids

605
00:27:32,561 --> 00:27:35,041
Speaker 2: all played for Brothers, and then all the state school

606
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,321
Speaker 2: kids where I went to Kerwin State High School, they

607
00:27:37,321 --> 00:27:39,761
Speaker 2: all played for Centrals. I told my mom I want

608
00:27:39,801 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: to go and play for Central's and moms like, no,

609
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,241
Speaker 2: you can't. You go to stay loyal, that's your team.

610
00:27:45,321 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: You play for Brothers. So this is ingrained me. So

611
00:27:50,321 --> 00:27:52,521
Speaker 2: I didn't want to go to England when I retired

612
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,321
Speaker 2: because I'd had work that was lined up for me

613
00:27:55,481 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: with Channel nine and a few different things as well,

614
00:27:59,441 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: and I thought, if I go to England for two years,

615
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,521
Speaker 2: I'll be out of side, out of mind. The next

616
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,481
Speaker 2: person retires and you know, that job that I did

617
00:28:06,521 --> 00:28:08,801
Speaker 2: have a Channel nine is gone. And the people that

618
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,001
Speaker 2: retired at the same time and roughly around the same

619
00:28:11,001 --> 00:28:14,561
Speaker 2: time as Jonathan Thurston, Cameron Smith, East Layer, Cooper Kronk,

620
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,961
Speaker 2: so all the media jobs would have been gone.

621
00:28:17,201 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: It's very true.

622
00:28:18,201 --> 00:28:20,521
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I come back and then I'm working as

623
00:28:20,561 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 2: a bloody stop go sign guy.

624
00:28:24,041 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: They have pretty good money, so.

625
00:28:28,921 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 2: It's super hard having something wrapped up in your identity

626
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 2: for such a long period of time. And then you know,

627
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,761
Speaker 2: having this internal wrestle of actually I can still play,

628
00:28:39,161 --> 00:28:42,161
Speaker 2: but they're not wanting to sign with another club because

629
00:28:42,521 --> 00:28:45,801
Speaker 2: of this bloody loyalty. I'm as loyal as a kick dog.

630
00:28:45,841 --> 00:28:47,441
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, I'll keep coming back.

631
00:28:48,201 --> 00:28:50,281
Speaker 2: It's so hilarious to say this, but you kind of

632
00:28:50,321 --> 00:28:52,761
Speaker 2: go off into the wilderness into the real world, and

633
00:28:52,881 --> 00:28:56,041
Speaker 2: you you have your struggle, so you pack on the weight,

634
00:28:56,361 --> 00:28:59,881
Speaker 2: you don't train as much, you probably drink too much.

635
00:29:00,121 --> 00:29:02,201
Speaker 2: You know, all these different things that you weren't allowed

636
00:29:02,241 --> 00:29:05,281
Speaker 2: to do while you're playing. True, you know you could do.

637
00:29:05,441 --> 00:29:07,761
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's Wednesday, I can have a beer,

638
00:29:08,041 --> 00:29:09,761
Speaker 2: and then you have two beers and then.

639
00:29:10,601 --> 00:29:14,401
Speaker 1: So like my normal Yeah.

640
00:29:13,401 --> 00:29:17,281
Speaker 2: So bad habits start creeping in. And then when the

641
00:29:17,321 --> 00:29:20,761
Speaker 2: bad habits start creeping in, your mindset's shot. Because you

642
00:29:20,841 --> 00:29:26,161
Speaker 2: are institutionalized when it comes to being a professional sporting stuff.

643
00:29:26,921 --> 00:29:30,401
Speaker 2: You are told where to be, what to where, we

644
00:29:30,521 --> 00:29:33,361
Speaker 2: had a full time dietician. You eat these things, you know,

645
00:29:33,401 --> 00:29:35,561
Speaker 2: you go to the gym that they've done your program

646
00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: for you. Even to the point like towards the end

647
00:29:38,201 --> 00:29:39,921
Speaker 2: of my career, we got fancy and we didn't have

648
00:29:39,961 --> 00:29:42,081
Speaker 2: to even bring our own tails to training anymore because

649
00:29:42,121 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 2: they had towels and they washed the towels for you.

650
00:29:44,561 --> 00:29:47,641
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like usual to leave home all over again.

651
00:29:47,761 --> 00:29:51,881
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much and start again, start again. And I

652
00:29:51,921 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: think that was my biggest downfall when I retired, was

653
00:29:54,481 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: that there was a lack of routine with what I

654
00:29:56,521 --> 00:29:58,161
Speaker 2: was doing with my life, and it was just like

655
00:29:58,401 --> 00:29:59,561
Speaker 2: I want to do this, I want to do this,

656
00:29:59,601 --> 00:30:00,841
Speaker 2: I want to do this, I want to do all

657
00:30:00,841 --> 00:30:04,361
Speaker 2: the things. Yeah, you know, I want to go skiing.

658
00:30:04,401 --> 00:30:07,441
Speaker 2: When to Japan? And then the world shutdown.

659
00:30:07,081 --> 00:30:09,321
Speaker 1: After that, Oh that was terrible time.

660
00:30:09,561 --> 00:30:10,881
Speaker 2: It was a terrible timing.

661
00:30:11,001 --> 00:30:12,761
Speaker 1: At home too. You can't even do the dreams.

662
00:30:12,881 --> 00:30:15,241
Speaker 2: No, I can't even do a lot of the things. So, yeah,

663
00:30:15,521 --> 00:30:18,681
Speaker 2: there was so much that kind of coincided with end

664
00:30:18,681 --> 00:30:22,161
Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, retire had a family holiday over in Japan,

665
00:30:22,281 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: went skiing, came back, the world shutdown. I was just

666
00:30:25,041 --> 00:30:28,601
Speaker 2: like it was probably the worst time ever to retire

667
00:30:28,681 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: in all.

668
00:30:29,121 --> 00:30:30,801
Speaker 1: Those things properly.

669
00:30:31,401 --> 00:30:34,081
Speaker 2: But again, I have to kind of lean back on

670
00:30:34,081 --> 00:30:35,041
Speaker 2: that resilient space.

671
00:30:35,081 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: And I was going to say, what did you learn

672
00:30:36,481 --> 00:30:37,441
Speaker 1: about yourself during that?

673
00:30:37,721 --> 00:30:42,881
Speaker 2: Oh I'm a suck but cow, but you need to.

674
00:30:43,201 --> 00:30:45,321
Speaker 2: I think you need times where you're suki and you

675
00:30:45,361 --> 00:30:47,601
Speaker 2: need times when sit with it, sit with the shit

676
00:30:47,921 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: you do. You have to sit with it, you have

677
00:30:49,241 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: to deal with it, and you have to try to

678
00:30:51,001 --> 00:30:52,441
Speaker 2: move on. Am I perfect? Now?

679
00:30:53,081 --> 00:30:54,801
Speaker 1: You talk about the fact that when you leave footy

680
00:30:54,921 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: and it's not luck, I don't think. I think it's talent.

681
00:30:57,521 --> 00:31:00,081
Speaker 1: You are talented in front of a camera. And you

682
00:31:00,121 --> 00:31:02,881
Speaker 1: know you've done radio, You've done you know, TV, You've

683
00:31:02,921 --> 00:31:04,881
Speaker 1: done lots of gigs, speaking gigs.

684
00:31:05,121 --> 00:31:06,321
Speaker 2: I worked at those things too.

685
00:31:06,761 --> 00:31:09,041
Speaker 1: I know you're actually really good at it. Like, do

686
00:31:09,161 --> 00:31:10,881
Speaker 1: you realize how good you are in it? I've had

687
00:31:10,881 --> 00:31:12,801
Speaker 1: this conversation before, and I feel like I didn't sink in.

688
00:31:13,321 --> 00:31:16,001
Speaker 1: I was like, like, you sit here, and I think

689
00:31:16,041 --> 00:31:17,881
Speaker 1: you could do whatever you want in that space if

690
00:31:17,921 --> 00:31:19,481
Speaker 1: you just made it happen, like in a thing.

691
00:31:19,801 --> 00:31:22,761
Speaker 2: There's a new show coming, yeah, Thurday Night Live. It's

692
00:31:22,801 --> 00:31:25,521
Speaker 2: called when I was playing, I was so nervous to

693
00:31:25,561 --> 00:31:28,241
Speaker 2: do radio, so I went and did it. The TV stuff,

694
00:31:28,241 --> 00:31:30,121
Speaker 2: I was so nervous to do TV stuff, so when

695
00:31:30,121 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: I did it, we used to say it to our

696
00:31:32,001 --> 00:31:33,521
Speaker 2: girls all the time when they were little. It takes

697
00:31:33,521 --> 00:31:37,121
Speaker 2: one second to be brave, and you know, yeah, I

698
00:31:37,121 --> 00:31:39,601
Speaker 2: find it really sad now for some of our current

699
00:31:39,961 --> 00:31:44,161
Speaker 2: NRL stars, and actually any sporting stars is from a

700
00:31:44,321 --> 00:31:46,321
Speaker 2: broadcasters point of view, the stuff that I used to

701
00:31:46,361 --> 00:31:48,681
Speaker 2: do with Channel nine was me being my genuine self

702
00:31:48,681 --> 00:31:51,641
Speaker 2: and having fun. But we squashed that Now as soon

703
00:31:51,641 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: as anyone shows any type of character or you know,

704
00:31:56,321 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: a bit of gusto about them, we squashed them straight away.

705
00:31:59,281 --> 00:32:02,881
Speaker 2: And it's so sad to see because if that happened

706
00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:04,801
Speaker 2: to me when I was playing, I wouldn't do any

707
00:32:04,841 --> 00:32:05,681
Speaker 2: of the I think.

708
00:32:05,601 --> 00:32:08,001
Speaker 1: Someone mentioned you with the Last of your Kind because

709
00:32:08,041 --> 00:32:10,081
Speaker 1: the stuff that you came out sometimes is on TV.

710
00:32:10,761 --> 00:32:12,721
Speaker 1: Like for some people it was what they look forward

711
00:32:12,761 --> 00:32:13,921
Speaker 1: to at the end of the game and the show,

712
00:32:13,961 --> 00:32:15,321
Speaker 1: and it brought a bit of joy to a bit

713
00:32:15,321 --> 00:32:16,801
Speaker 1: of misery. So you're right, I don't think it'd be

714
00:32:16,841 --> 00:32:17,881
Speaker 1: tolerated in that now.

715
00:32:18,681 --> 00:32:21,601
Speaker 2: I've always tried to find balance with everything that I do,

716
00:32:21,721 --> 00:32:24,681
Speaker 2: so again any of the TV stuff, any of my

717
00:32:24,761 --> 00:32:29,041
Speaker 2: speaking engagements as well, again showing up as my genuine selves,

718
00:32:29,641 --> 00:32:33,041
Speaker 2: and I try to bring little bits of you know,

719
00:32:33,241 --> 00:32:35,601
Speaker 2: you don't want to go to see someone speaking on

720
00:32:35,681 --> 00:32:39,961
Speaker 2: stage about leadership and the this is our leader does

721
00:32:40,001 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: this is? It's like I have fun with it.

722
00:32:42,121 --> 00:32:42,401
Speaker 1: Yeah.

723
00:32:42,481 --> 00:32:44,681
Speaker 2: When I talk about leadership, I talk about the different

724
00:32:44,721 --> 00:32:48,721
Speaker 2: leaders that I've had throughout my career and what made

725
00:32:48,721 --> 00:32:51,201
Speaker 2: them the good leaders that they were. I tell football

726
00:32:51,241 --> 00:32:54,681
Speaker 2: stories when it comes to leadership talks because it's what

727
00:32:54,801 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: I can relate to. And it's also so easy to

728
00:32:59,241 --> 00:33:02,161
Speaker 2: tell those stories, isn't it. Yeah. I've come to realize

729
00:33:02,201 --> 00:33:04,361
Speaker 2: now that I have so many transferable skills that came

730
00:33:04,401 --> 00:33:07,721
Speaker 2: out of my rug league career that I now implemented

731
00:33:07,761 --> 00:33:10,561
Speaker 2: my life and you know, hopefully they're helping me out

732
00:33:10,601 --> 00:33:13,441
Speaker 2: and I'm still paying the bill sets Okay.

733
00:33:13,161 --> 00:33:16,161
Speaker 1: Speaking of bravery, and I would have described you at

734
00:33:16,241 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: times as being very stoic like sort of especially going

735
00:33:19,201 --> 00:33:21,881
Speaker 1: through that period of transition for your career, instead of

736
00:33:21,921 --> 00:33:23,601
Speaker 1: everything's sort of you know, oh yeah, it's all good.

737
00:33:23,601 --> 00:33:25,361
Speaker 1: It's all good. You know, see me, everything's all right,

738
00:33:25,801 --> 00:33:27,921
Speaker 1: and then you go into something really vulnerable and you

739
00:33:28,041 --> 00:33:30,281
Speaker 1: go and you know, put a full series podcast out

740
00:33:30,281 --> 00:33:33,521
Speaker 1: and talk about actually how tough it's been, and you

741
00:33:33,561 --> 00:33:37,041
Speaker 1: talk about some real big topics around suicide and depression.

742
00:33:37,281 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean, even the people who know you really well

743
00:33:39,041 --> 00:33:41,001
Speaker 1: were like, oh wow, where that from?

744
00:33:41,961 --> 00:33:44,321
Speaker 2: There? It is because it was deep down? It was

745
00:33:44,321 --> 00:33:45,921
Speaker 2: obviously deep.

746
00:33:45,721 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: So what did it mean for you to share it? Like?

747
00:33:47,321 --> 00:33:50,081
Speaker 1: What made you decide to open up about that stuff?

748
00:33:50,401 --> 00:33:53,521
Speaker 2: I was doing some therapy at the time and opening

749
00:33:53,601 --> 00:33:57,601
Speaker 2: up to my therapist and just through the conversation thought

750
00:33:57,641 --> 00:34:00,601
Speaker 2: it would be beneficial to share those things again. You

751
00:34:00,641 --> 00:34:02,401
Speaker 2: talk about how many people ask you to see me

752
00:34:02,561 --> 00:34:05,321
Speaker 2: like that intents all the time and crazy and whatever.

753
00:34:06,001 --> 00:34:08,081
Speaker 2: People ask those questions all the time. And it was

754
00:34:08,721 --> 00:34:12,641
Speaker 2: to shy Upe as one of my genuine selves and

755
00:34:13,441 --> 00:34:15,641
Speaker 2: tell a couple of stories. You can go and listen

756
00:34:15,681 --> 00:34:16,321
Speaker 2: to the podcast.

757
00:34:17,081 --> 00:34:18,241
Speaker 1: I recommend it.

758
00:34:18,241 --> 00:34:20,601
Speaker 2: It's called We Are Human And there's a poem on

759
00:34:20,601 --> 00:34:22,361
Speaker 2: them that I wrote about the Boy on the Wall

760
00:34:22,601 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: and like that was something I buried deep and again

761
00:34:26,601 --> 00:34:28,841
Speaker 2: going through a little bit of struggle. I can't even

762
00:34:28,841 --> 00:34:31,841
Speaker 2: remember exactly what age I was, but yeah, I was

763
00:34:32,041 --> 00:34:35,681
Speaker 2: going through a tough time again, lack of identity, didn't

764
00:34:35,721 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: know where I fit in, didn't know what I wanted

765
00:34:37,521 --> 00:34:40,201
Speaker 2: to do with my life. And I rode to the

766
00:34:40,281 --> 00:34:43,841
Speaker 2: Kelso Dam, which is not far from my house, and

767
00:34:44,161 --> 00:34:47,601
Speaker 2: towns were being pretty dry, where the damn spillway was

768
00:34:48,281 --> 00:34:53,281
Speaker 2: sat on the wall, and just kind of was contemplating

769
00:34:53,321 --> 00:34:59,161
Speaker 2: my own life and yeah, yeah, and then pretty damn

770
00:34:59,241 --> 00:35:03,161
Speaker 2: close to just leaping, jumping off and ending it there.

771
00:35:04,121 --> 00:35:08,681
Speaker 2: But so glad that I gave myself a chance to

772
00:35:08,761 --> 00:35:10,801
Speaker 2: see the next day, because.

773
00:35:11,521 --> 00:35:13,601
Speaker 1: Yeah, what made you get on your bike and right home.

774
00:35:14,401 --> 00:35:16,441
Speaker 2: I was more worried in my mind of what my

775
00:35:16,521 --> 00:35:20,561
Speaker 2: family would have gone through. So I'm glad that that

776
00:35:20,761 --> 00:35:23,721
Speaker 2: was the last thought that I had. Was the you know,

777
00:35:23,801 --> 00:35:28,041
Speaker 2: the literally fuck moment about you. Your family's the people

778
00:35:28,041 --> 00:35:29,801
Speaker 2: that are still here are the ones that have to

779
00:35:29,841 --> 00:35:32,841
Speaker 2: deal with your actions at the end of the day.

780
00:35:32,881 --> 00:35:35,681
Speaker 2: They're the ones that I left behind. And I didn't

781
00:35:35,681 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: want to put that burden on my parents, because yeah,

782
00:35:38,441 --> 00:35:40,681
Speaker 2: I didn't have the most privileged life. It was pretty

783
00:35:40,721 --> 00:35:42,361
Speaker 2: tough when Dad got out of the Air Force and

784
00:35:42,641 --> 00:35:45,881
Speaker 2: struggled to find himself after a while. Again, you know,

785
00:35:46,481 --> 00:35:48,961
Speaker 2: similar my dad. He joined the Air Force to travel

786
00:35:49,001 --> 00:35:52,361
Speaker 2: and see Australia and do some different things. And he

787
00:35:52,401 --> 00:35:54,641
Speaker 2: was in the Air Force for twenty one years and

788
00:35:54,681 --> 00:35:56,641
Speaker 2: then I think he had a couple of little odd

789
00:35:56,681 --> 00:35:58,761
Speaker 2: jobs there for a while. He worked at a chemist,

790
00:35:59,161 --> 00:36:03,121
Speaker 2: he worked for a furniture place where he just delivered furniture,

791
00:36:03,761 --> 00:36:06,841
Speaker 2: and then he end up starting to be a teacher.

792
00:36:07,081 --> 00:36:10,521
Speaker 2: It showed me that you can do multiple jobs in

793
00:36:10,561 --> 00:36:12,921
Speaker 2: your life. You don't have to just be put in

794
00:36:12,921 --> 00:36:15,641
Speaker 2: one basket forever. And you know, it just showed me

795
00:36:15,681 --> 00:36:17,601
Speaker 2: that you can achieve anything in your life and you

796
00:36:17,601 --> 00:36:20,001
Speaker 2: don't have to just be stuck in one box forever.

797
00:36:20,921 --> 00:36:23,481
Speaker 1: When you rode back that day, though, from what I understand,

798
00:36:23,521 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: you didn't tell your parents what you were going to do, right,

799
00:36:25,521 --> 00:36:27,521
Speaker 1: so they just found out probably in the last couple

800
00:36:27,521 --> 00:36:27,921
Speaker 1: of years.

801
00:36:28,201 --> 00:36:32,801
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had. I was sweating profusely. Yeah, I was

802
00:36:32,881 --> 00:36:35,601
Speaker 2: so nervous when I had written the poem in twenty

803
00:36:35,681 --> 00:36:39,121
Speaker 2: nineteen and had done some of the work I needed

804
00:36:39,161 --> 00:36:41,801
Speaker 2: to do around it, you know, trying to fit in

805
00:36:42,521 --> 00:36:45,441
Speaker 2: knowing understand that I am loved all those different things.

806
00:36:45,761 --> 00:36:49,121
Speaker 2: And once I kind of got the poem out, I

807
00:36:49,201 --> 00:36:52,081
Speaker 2: knew that well, I'm going to do a podcast around this,

808
00:36:52,161 --> 00:36:53,521
Speaker 2: so I'm going to get it out there and put

809
00:36:53,561 --> 00:36:55,401
Speaker 2: it out there. I need to make sure that my

810
00:36:55,481 --> 00:36:58,761
Speaker 2: parents know before yep, I do, because I want them

811
00:36:58,801 --> 00:37:02,241
Speaker 2: to hear it from me, not from someone else, and

812
00:37:02,601 --> 00:37:08,481
Speaker 2: talk about tough conversation, but a conversation that needed to happen,

813
00:37:08,881 --> 00:37:13,321
Speaker 2: and to see how supportive mom and dad were and

814
00:37:13,361 --> 00:37:16,281
Speaker 2: they had no idea and I was a little angry

815
00:37:16,361 --> 00:37:19,401
Speaker 2: kid and didn't understand my hormones to the point where

816
00:37:19,441 --> 00:37:21,561
Speaker 2: Mum brought me a boxing back when I was a kid.

817
00:37:21,881 --> 00:37:24,201
Speaker 2: She would know if I had a day at school

818
00:37:24,201 --> 00:37:26,161
Speaker 2: if one of my brothers was annoying me, because I

819
00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:28,121
Speaker 2: would be out there. I'd be punching the bag as

820
00:37:28,121 --> 00:37:30,641
Speaker 2: hard as I could. But it was a conversation I

821
00:37:30,681 --> 00:37:32,841
Speaker 2: needed to have a little bit for mom and dad,

822
00:37:32,881 --> 00:37:36,881
Speaker 2: but more for myself because the burden of holding onto

823
00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:38,881
Speaker 2: that for so long was massive.

824
00:37:39,121 --> 00:37:41,241
Speaker 1: I think there's a theme that I look back and go,

825
00:37:41,801 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: what did Sammy need in those moments in his life?

826
00:37:44,561 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: Right like you think about it because you're a parent now,

827
00:37:46,881 --> 00:37:48,441
Speaker 1: what did you need from your parents back then? What

828
00:37:48,441 --> 00:37:50,641
Speaker 1: did you need from the coaching stuff back then? Was

829
00:37:50,681 --> 00:37:52,601
Speaker 1: it someone to be able to talk to you more

830
00:37:52,641 --> 00:37:53,681
Speaker 1: about how you're feeling?

831
00:37:53,881 --> 00:37:56,321
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. It's not our parents at the end of

832
00:37:56,321 --> 00:37:58,561
Speaker 2: the day too, so you know, and I never placed

833
00:37:58,561 --> 00:38:01,881
Speaker 2: any blame on them for our childhood at all, because

834
00:38:02,161 --> 00:38:05,321
Speaker 2: they were just doing what they were taught, how they

835
00:38:05,401 --> 00:38:08,281
Speaker 2: learned how to parent. We can only learn from the

836
00:38:08,281 --> 00:38:10,441
Speaker 2: way that we were parented, come up with our own

837
00:38:10,521 --> 00:38:13,321
Speaker 2: styles of parenting and continue to show up.

838
00:38:13,641 --> 00:38:18,561
Speaker 1: You're cruising high speed towards forty as she's twelve months away,

839
00:38:18,561 --> 00:38:21,081
Speaker 1: isn't it all less? So it's a milestone. I know,

840
00:38:21,121 --> 00:38:23,241
Speaker 1: as a woman who's forty two, right, a lot of

841
00:38:23,241 --> 00:38:25,521
Speaker 1: stuff changes. What are you not bothered by now that

842
00:38:25,561 --> 00:38:28,521
Speaker 1: there's a young football player you see to get worried about, like,

843
00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:30,361
Speaker 1: you know, self doubt. I think I've read a bit

844
00:38:30,401 --> 00:38:32,521
Speaker 1: about you at times where oh, yeah, you know you

845
00:38:32,601 --> 00:38:34,721
Speaker 1: had that self doubt, Like has that got better as

846
00:38:34,721 --> 00:38:35,881
Speaker 1: you got older or worse?

847
00:38:36,721 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: It's different self doubt now though, Okay, you know, any

848
00:38:40,481 --> 00:38:44,601
Speaker 2: little idea I have or business opportunities or they think

849
00:38:44,681 --> 00:38:48,161
Speaker 2: you're forever doubting yourself and thinking, you know, can I

850
00:38:48,201 --> 00:38:48,481
Speaker 2: do it?

851
00:38:48,641 --> 00:38:48,961
Speaker 1: Yeah?

852
00:38:49,001 --> 00:38:51,081
Speaker 2: But that's probably something that I do need to work on.

853
00:38:51,321 --> 00:38:52,921
Speaker 2: There still is a little bit of self doubt that

854
00:38:53,001 --> 00:38:55,121
Speaker 2: creeps in, and I think it creeps in for most

855
00:38:55,161 --> 00:38:57,841
Speaker 2: people when it comes to anything, trying something new, doing

856
00:38:57,881 --> 00:39:00,641
Speaker 2: something new, it's always scary, but you know, you just

857
00:39:00,681 --> 00:39:02,681
Speaker 2: got to go back to that old one second to

858
00:39:02,721 --> 00:39:05,521
Speaker 2: be brave, and you just got to leap and have

859
00:39:05,601 --> 00:39:10,081
Speaker 2: a kraken. The thing that I worry and I'm concerned

860
00:39:10,121 --> 00:39:14,081
Speaker 2: about is like, I want to be around for my

861
00:39:14,321 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: kids when they have kids. So for me coming into

862
00:39:18,961 --> 00:39:21,841
Speaker 2: my forties, I need to make sure that all right,

863
00:39:21,961 --> 00:39:23,481
Speaker 2: I need to make sure I'm ticking a lot more

864
00:39:23,481 --> 00:39:25,521
Speaker 2: boxes when it comes to the health side of things.

865
00:39:25,561 --> 00:39:27,441
Speaker 2: I need to make sure that I see a doctor

866
00:39:27,481 --> 00:39:31,481
Speaker 2: regularly and make sure that I trained so hard for

867
00:39:31,521 --> 00:39:34,841
Speaker 2: so many years that I can easily use it as

868
00:39:34,881 --> 00:39:38,401
Speaker 2: an excuse sometimes not too yeah, right, And I heard

869
00:39:38,401 --> 00:39:40,481
Speaker 2: someone the other day talk about we would do anything

870
00:39:40,521 --> 00:39:42,601
Speaker 2: for our kids, and sometimes we say we would die

871
00:39:42,641 --> 00:39:45,081
Speaker 2: for our kids, but we need to start living for

872
00:39:45,121 --> 00:39:47,641
Speaker 2: our kids. So that's probably something that I need to

873
00:39:47,681 --> 00:39:48,561
Speaker 2: work on going forward.

874
00:39:48,721 --> 00:39:50,481
Speaker 1: A little Bernie might have told me that you might

875
00:39:50,521 --> 00:39:53,521
Speaker 1: be dabbling. I mean, you're a big kid yourself. Let's

876
00:39:53,561 --> 00:39:55,481
Speaker 1: be honest, and it turns out you might like writing

877
00:39:55,561 --> 00:39:56,321
Speaker 1: kids books too.

878
00:39:56,761 --> 00:40:00,041
Speaker 2: Yes, I do. Actually, that's got some hopefully that will

879
00:40:00,081 --> 00:40:03,401
Speaker 2: be coming out very soon. So I'm working. I'm working

880
00:40:03,481 --> 00:40:07,041
Speaker 2: very closely with the which are the former Origin Greats,

881
00:40:07,321 --> 00:40:10,521
Speaker 2: and they run a program in primary schools called the

882
00:40:10,641 --> 00:40:16,001
Speaker 2: ARTI program, which is an acronym for Achieving Results through

883
00:40:16,481 --> 00:40:20,081
Speaker 2: Indigenous Education. I would love to get these books out

884
00:40:20,081 --> 00:40:23,561
Speaker 2: in January to start the new school year. I've been

885
00:40:23,601 --> 00:40:26,601
Speaker 2: sitting on them for a little while and they're just

886
00:40:27,321 --> 00:40:30,561
Speaker 2: Indigenous tales that I'd heard as a kid. And the

887
00:40:30,601 --> 00:40:33,641
Speaker 2: whole idea is when I was a kid, I struggle

888
00:40:33,721 --> 00:40:36,241
Speaker 2: to read now still. I remember I had to do

889
00:40:36,321 --> 00:40:38,601
Speaker 2: something on the Footy Show once and they had the

890
00:40:38,641 --> 00:40:41,801
Speaker 2: telepropter and I couldn't read it, and I just like

891
00:40:41,961 --> 00:40:45,161
Speaker 2: froze on TV and being quick with it. I just

892
00:40:45,241 --> 00:40:46,921
Speaker 2: kind of knew what we were talking about and I

893
00:40:46,961 --> 00:40:49,961
Speaker 2: just spoke about it anyway without reading what was on

894
00:40:50,041 --> 00:40:53,761
Speaker 2: the thing. So, you know, probably undiagnosed dyslexia. I probably

895
00:40:53,801 --> 00:40:56,201
Speaker 2: got add as well. But I remember being a kid

896
00:40:56,201 --> 00:40:59,121
Speaker 2: in going to school and not finding or seeing any

897
00:40:59,161 --> 00:41:02,561
Speaker 2: books that I wanted to read in the library. You know,

898
00:41:02,601 --> 00:41:04,641
Speaker 2: a lot of the things I've spoken about today that

899
00:41:04,761 --> 00:41:07,601
Speaker 2: lack identity is like I wanted to read the dream

900
00:41:07,641 --> 00:41:10,521
Speaker 2: Time Stories, but there's no Torres Strait Dreamtime Stories or

901
00:41:10,521 --> 00:41:13,241
Speaker 2: all stories of the Torres Straits. So I've got a

902
00:41:13,281 --> 00:41:15,681
Speaker 2: story about Gary the Garfish.

903
00:41:15,881 --> 00:41:17,201
Speaker 1: Gary the garfis Garry.

904
00:41:17,001 --> 00:41:19,081
Speaker 2: Garfish and how he broke his nose. I've got a

905
00:41:19,121 --> 00:41:21,761
Speaker 2: story about the grandmother Turtle, how she was sick and

906
00:41:21,761 --> 00:41:24,481
Speaker 2: tired of swimming around the world, and she found a

907
00:41:24,481 --> 00:41:26,521
Speaker 2: sandbar and she laid down and she became an island,

908
00:41:26,561 --> 00:41:28,241
Speaker 2: and all of her kids come back and they lay

909
00:41:28,241 --> 00:41:32,001
Speaker 2: their eggs on the island now. So it's about motherhood

910
00:41:32,041 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: and keeping your family close. And then I've got another book,

911
00:41:35,961 --> 00:41:38,201
Speaker 2: which is I got to finish it, which is about

912
00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:40,121
Speaker 2: the Pearl chall It's about bullying at the end of

913
00:41:40,161 --> 00:41:41,841
Speaker 2: the day, so about inner beauty.

914
00:41:42,401 --> 00:41:44,521
Speaker 1: Wow, I cannot wait to see these come out. This

915
00:41:44,601 --> 00:41:47,761
Speaker 1: is great. I love it. Seemy. I hope you realize

916
00:41:47,801 --> 00:41:50,081
Speaker 1: that you're a big advocate for the indigenous space and

917
00:41:50,121 --> 00:41:52,961
Speaker 1: also for mental health. And you'll never know the answer

918
00:41:52,961 --> 00:41:55,801
Speaker 1: to this, but somewhere out there, someone's listened to something

919
00:41:56,041 --> 00:41:58,361
Speaker 1: and gone it's okay to say this because Sammy does,

920
00:41:58,761 --> 00:42:00,721
Speaker 1: and someone's gone, do you know what? I wanted to

921
00:42:00,721 --> 00:42:02,601
Speaker 1: get to know my culture more because Sammy's doing this.

922
00:42:02,721 --> 00:42:04,881
Speaker 1: So I hope sometimes you remember the impact you're having

923
00:42:04,881 --> 00:42:07,041
Speaker 1: on people. I think sometimes it can get lost a bit.

924
00:42:07,361 --> 00:42:08,241
Speaker 1: You don't always know it.

925
00:42:08,361 --> 00:42:10,521
Speaker 2: I do always tell people when I do a speech,

926
00:42:10,561 --> 00:42:13,481
Speaker 2: and I always introduce myself, and I always say, well,

927
00:42:13,521 --> 00:42:15,361
Speaker 2: if you don't know who I am, please don't google me.

928
00:42:15,441 --> 00:42:16,241
Speaker 1: Because.

929
00:42:17,881 --> 00:42:19,721
Speaker 2: Half of the stuff that comes up if you giggle me.

930
00:42:19,761 --> 00:42:21,201
Speaker 1: Is nonsense as I read.

931
00:42:21,641 --> 00:42:24,201
Speaker 2: So yeah, I hope that people are getting their information

932
00:42:24,281 --> 00:42:27,521
Speaker 2: about Samada from podcasts, from seeing me on TV, from books,

933
00:42:27,561 --> 00:42:28,321
Speaker 2: all different things.

934
00:42:28,361 --> 00:42:31,081
Speaker 1: I'm going to let end with one question. Let's go

935
00:42:31,161 --> 00:42:34,801
Speaker 1: back to seventeen year old SAMMI. Yeah, you're good Moper hair.

936
00:42:34,881 --> 00:42:37,641
Speaker 1: Then I do miss your hair. If I'm honest, I'll

937
00:42:37,921 --> 00:42:39,481
Speaker 1: be the end of the year.

938
00:42:39,521 --> 00:42:40,921
Speaker 2: I'll get it fixed, little.

939
00:42:40,681 --> 00:42:41,561
Speaker 1: Flitting there in the front.

940
00:42:41,801 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll get some plugs soon.

941
00:42:44,241 --> 00:42:47,681
Speaker 1: But so seventeen year old Sammy football is off the table.

942
00:42:47,681 --> 00:42:50,161
Speaker 1: In fact, all professional sports off the table. It's not

943
00:42:50,201 --> 00:42:53,281
Speaker 1: going to happen, right, What else would SEMy have gone

944
00:42:53,321 --> 00:42:54,641
Speaker 1: and done? If you look back now and all that

945
00:42:54,761 --> 00:42:56,841
Speaker 1: was done. What career path might I be finding you

946
00:42:56,881 --> 00:42:57,281
Speaker 1: in now?

947
00:42:57,961 --> 00:43:00,041
Speaker 2: Well, A lot of the subjects I did at school

948
00:43:00,161 --> 00:43:02,881
Speaker 2: were the direction I was going in was a building

949
00:43:02,881 --> 00:43:06,121
Speaker 2: and construction industry. So eleven and grade twelve I did

950
00:43:06,121 --> 00:43:10,361
Speaker 2: graphic design, I did trading business mass, I did mental work,

951
00:43:10,401 --> 00:43:12,481
Speaker 2: I did woodwork. And we had a course at school

952
00:43:12,481 --> 00:43:15,001
Speaker 2: too that we did was called a building construction course

953
00:43:15,041 --> 00:43:17,761
Speaker 2: where we learn different skills when it come to building.

954
00:43:17,841 --> 00:43:20,201
Speaker 2: So I'll probably be in the building industry. I'd probably

955
00:43:20,201 --> 00:43:22,521
Speaker 2: own my own business. I'd be as big as hutches,

956
00:43:22,561 --> 00:43:26,601
Speaker 2: I reckon. I love a flat pack challenge.

957
00:43:26,801 --> 00:43:29,121
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you've told me that because I don't

958
00:43:29,161 --> 00:43:30,361
Speaker 1: and I need someone to do mine.

959
00:43:30,521 --> 00:43:34,841
Speaker 2: I liked the idea of sometimes not following the instructions.

960
00:43:34,241 --> 00:43:36,281
Speaker 1: Either, great, that could just go.

961
00:43:37,201 --> 00:43:38,921
Speaker 2: It's cool. It's a puzzle and you've got to put

962
00:43:38,921 --> 00:43:41,001
Speaker 2: it together and figure out how it all fits.

963
00:43:41,001 --> 00:43:43,201
Speaker 1: And I'll be bringing you for the next flight pack.

964
00:43:43,241 --> 00:43:45,321
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, Sammy. Thank you so much for

965
00:43:45,361 --> 00:43:45,921
Speaker 1: chatting today.

966
00:43:46,121 --> 00:43:46,481
Speaker 2: Thank you