WEBVTT - REWIND: They Were Rats

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<v Speaker 1>Approache production. I mean, I know I lived on the inside,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I know who fucking killed you and who

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<v Speaker 1>did what you know, and would go to my grave

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<v Speaker 1>with me, you know what I mean. But that didn't

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<v Speaker 1>kill all the people that they thought. You know, you

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<v Speaker 1>killed three people that I know, you know, And if

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<v Speaker 1>that makes him a serial killer, well I guess he's one.

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<v Speaker 1>But as he killed, yeah, all involved in the in

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<v Speaker 1>the trade at some stuff. But the two women, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they are on the fringes of course, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>aren't working out stuff. But one of them wide up

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<v Speaker 1>of the police, and so the police went in ned

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<v Speaker 1>and said, right, fucking get rid of it. So it

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<v Speaker 1>was the other bloke who got did it, got rid

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<v Speaker 1>of it and took it to the National Park. And the

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<v Speaker 1>other one was Sally Anne. It sounds like they're going

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<v Speaker 1>would roll you if you on the wrong side of them,

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<v Speaker 1>would you know? But I never ever saw that side

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<v Speaker 1>of him. See that's the difference. Like people say to me, well,

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<v Speaker 1>how could you run with him? For some I said,

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<v Speaker 1>because I never seen him do it. You know, if

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's easy to walk around and say, oh

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<v Speaker 1>he's a fucking Dog's a dog. You know what I mean. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he did some pretty shit actions, you know, and even

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<v Speaker 1>to me, got running away on me, setting me up

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<v Speaker 1>for like when Michael Brewery was shot the copper, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they set me up, They tried to trap me. So

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<v Speaker 1>Flannery was running with the scent and this Lorry Prendergast

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<v Speaker 1>was on the fringes. So they used to both work

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<v Speaker 1>together as a double so if they'd kill someone, the

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<v Speaker 1>other one would be covering his ass or or they'd

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<v Speaker 1>both go in and kill him, you know. And Lory

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<v Speaker 1>Prendegas already killed a few blocks in Melbourne with machine

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<v Speaker 1>guns in the bathroom for their own house in front

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<v Speaker 1>of the fucking kids, you know what I mean, and

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<v Speaker 1>beat the chargers, and the wife never wanted to get

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<v Speaker 1>up and say anything because he was smart, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>she so so they beat all the murders there. Then

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<v Speaker 1>they came up to Sydney, and because Flannery was working

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<v Speaker 1>with George Freeman as his bodyguard. And then the next

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<v Speaker 1>minute we heard a room and ned come to me.

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<v Speaker 1>And he always did it, He always thrown me in

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<v Speaker 1>the fucking circle with him, right, and he came up

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<v Speaker 1>and he said meet me, So I went down to

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<v Speaker 1>Waner's bay. I met him early hours in the morning.

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<v Speaker 1>He said that Chris Flannery has just told people in

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney he wants to kill you and me. I went

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<v Speaker 1>fucking me to and I said, fucking amazing. I was

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<v Speaker 1>to get fucking boarding, and I knew him, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I already knew Flannery. And so I go down and

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<v Speaker 1>I said, we'll just go straight to his house. I

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<v Speaker 1>know where he is. Just fucking walk down there, knock

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<v Speaker 1>on the dormal, fucking give it to him. So when

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<v Speaker 1>we get to Sydney, he drives up into Pitt Street

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<v Speaker 1>where his girlfriend lived in fucking red Fern Alexander there

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<v Speaker 1>and fucking I said, what are we going to coming

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<v Speaker 1>here for? They always like the fucking shop in front

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<v Speaker 1>of him, the chielders that I go. I'm not going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about anything. He said. Now I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>call Roger. What are you going to call it? Call

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<v Speaker 1>him master? We fucking do it anyway. He goes in

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<v Speaker 1>full was Roger. So Roger puts on a meat with him.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, oh, fuck, we did. So, you know, instead

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<v Speaker 1>of just getting rid of the problem, would have saved

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people, a lot of problems. He now

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do that. Next minute, we meet in the Fosters

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<v Speaker 1>Hotel in town, and he said, Next minute, Chris walks in.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, I like Gray here here on Blue Murder.

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<v Speaker 1>They showing more than any games I've seen your bodyguard.

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<v Speaker 1>I was sped the bodyguard, you know. I said, fuck,

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<v Speaker 1>we did so anyway, just walk in today Ago. I said,

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<v Speaker 1>believe you're going to fucking kill us. He said, what

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<v Speaker 1>are you talking me? I said, you suppose we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to kill me? And he said, I've known you for

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<v Speaker 1>a fucking work. He said, that's all. Ship. They walked

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<v Speaker 1>out her, next one him, Minetta chattering, and Roger's in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of I'm trying to fucking get it all sorted.

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<v Speaker 1>Next fucking minute they became the best of fucking pals,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And then next they're talking to each other

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<v Speaker 1>about yeah, emy year fucking killed. I went, oh, listen

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<v Speaker 1>to this fucking bullshit is so I just walked out.

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<v Speaker 1>The fucking girl just walked out. And where do you

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<v Speaker 1>go next day? I said, just not putting out of

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<v Speaker 1>that bullshit. I don't even want him in the fucking team.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't put him in the team. He's a backstep. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a toad cuttery or fucking put one in the

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<v Speaker 1>back of your head, you know, that's what he was.

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<v Speaker 1>That was his reputation. So next minute I went to

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<v Speaker 1>the meeting when they were going to shoot fucking Michael Drewy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, what the fuck is one to get

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<v Speaker 1>involved in shooting the copper for? He said, because my

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<v Speaker 1>mate paid me the fucking money to fucking get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of me, and me and Roger were going to fucking

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<v Speaker 1>get rid of him, and that's sucking all there is

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<v Speaker 1>about it. And I went, well, what are you going

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<v Speaker 1>to fucking do in the what are you going to

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<v Speaker 1>fucking down? He said, I'm just listening, that's all fucking listening.

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<v Speaker 1>Roger wasn't there that day, but Flannery's saying it right,

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<v Speaker 1>so you know that'll be speculation. So Roger, you're sweet anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>And I said, well, what are you going to do?

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<v Speaker 1>And he said, well, I'm you know, I'm just fucking

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<v Speaker 1>listening to all this. And I said, well, all this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to do is bring everything down. It's going

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<v Speaker 1>to build the fucking house of cards that we built

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<v Speaker 1>are going to come fucking dumble, fucking simple as that

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<v Speaker 1>he said, well, I'm just loading. I said, well, leave

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<v Speaker 1>my fucking out of it. I walked out. Well that

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<v Speaker 1>was the I put a fucking nail straight in my

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<v Speaker 1>own fucking coffin that day. Because they went, well, when

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<v Speaker 1>they shot drewry right, he didn't fucking die, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>next minute they went, fuck, we need escape gap now. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Roger Rogerson even made a tape of DVD called Roger

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<v Speaker 1>Rogerson's Part One Part Too. If anyone gets it, you

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<v Speaker 1>just got to listen to a little part in it,

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<v Speaker 1>which twigged me straight away right that he was involved.

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<v Speaker 1>He sent Detective Van Anderson around who's dead? Now? He

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<v Speaker 1>Doughter cant around at Flannery's house, and why would you

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<v Speaker 1>send him there? Right? And he said to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the murders in the in the underworld, right, that would

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<v Speaker 1>happened at the time the game war was right, so

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<v Speaker 1>and the shooting of Michael Brewery. Right, So he goes

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<v Speaker 1>around there, why did they want Michael Drury dead because

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<v Speaker 1>he was given evidence against the bloke in prison against

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<v Speaker 1>Williams who came from Melbourne who didn't want to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to jail. Right, he only would have got to

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<v Speaker 1>be a fucking two years like top odds, and all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden he got himself into all the drama.

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<v Speaker 1>But he was the only one who ended up beyond

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<v Speaker 1>to Jarlie did four years. Everyone else speak the chargers

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<v Speaker 1>because of the corruption. It was just so fucking thick.

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<v Speaker 1>So as I said, I said, well, this is fucking

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<v Speaker 1>the good and the nil, and the coffin went in

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<v Speaker 1>on me, right, so he don't he don't die. So

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<v Speaker 1>they're looking for that scapegame. So Rogerson, even as I

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<v Speaker 1>say on that tape, he even said, sent Detective Anderson

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<v Speaker 1>around of the house to sort out the Ganglian fucking murders. Right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>why would you do that unless he was a fucking

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<v Speaker 1>complete rat or they're going to try and set someone up.

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<v Speaker 1>So I had someone that was there that day and

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<v Speaker 1>they heard the conversation. They were outside, but they listened

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<v Speaker 1>through the door, and as soon as they got out

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<v Speaker 1>of there, they come and say, mate, and they said,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to be the scapegoat, right for Ganglion murders,

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<v Speaker 1>for whatever murders have been happening. You're the bunny, And

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<v Speaker 1>I went fuck, So I thought I'd better fucking get

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<v Speaker 1>me a hat on air so I started just snooping around.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I wasn't really I'd already part myself away from him,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I got away from there and I started

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<v Speaker 1>to just organize and get another gang together, my own

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<v Speaker 1>gang that I run for about eight or nine years. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So I went the next minute there was a Marvis

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<v Speaker 1>Hagler was fighting Marvin Hagler was going to fight Sugar

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<v Speaker 1>Ray Leave. So I was going to go down and

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<v Speaker 1>watch this fight at the Belmont sixteen footers, which was

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<v Speaker 1>up my way at the time, up around Lake Macquarie.

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<v Speaker 1>And Ned was living up there too, And anyway, he

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<v Speaker 1>rings me out of the blue, and he said, do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to catch up with me today? Light Dave

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<v Speaker 1>had taught you. I said, what the fuck would I

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk to you, you know? And he said,

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<v Speaker 1>I said, too much water under bride mate. So and

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<v Speaker 1>who rings me back? He said, Graham. I really knew

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<v Speaker 1>to have a fucking talk here. He said, it's very important.

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<v Speaker 1>I went. So I said, well, listen, I lost five

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars to you on Roberto Duran when he fought

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas Hearns hardly got knocked out in the first round.

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<v Speaker 1>So I said, bring fire grend with you and I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm on Landard and you're back the other boat. I

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<v Speaker 1>talked to you after the fight, right, So I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>say fucking boodore on the fight. We watched the fight.

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<v Speaker 1>Then after we just went down and sat down the thing,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he reeled off this story. You were right, mate,

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<v Speaker 1>I fucking shouldn't listen to you all that sort of ship. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>in the fucking end, I fucking got raped in there

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<v Speaker 1>and usually hit me. Your fucking antennas are up everywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>and I know you know. And even though I felt

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<v Speaker 1>a bit sniffy about it, I fucking sort of still

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<v Speaker 1>did it because the plane was going to be that

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<v Speaker 1>in the end, plannery was going, everyone was going to go,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought to myself, here and you'll be fucking

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<v Speaker 1>going with them, right because I knew all the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>they'd been doing. Right, So next minute he louse me

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<v Speaker 1>and he said, look, they've just tried to kill George Freeman.

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<v Speaker 1>And he said, so they've gone into hiding. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>so what we're going to do, He said, you'll we

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<v Speaker 1>will go and leave them on Saturday. He said, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>give them a couple of guns. We'll give them a

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<v Speaker 1>gun and some money or someone like that, and and

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<v Speaker 1>he said, and just let them go and then we

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<v Speaker 1>waste time. I'll need some more money. But this time

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<v Speaker 1>I'll say no, I'll just meet you wherever he is

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<v Speaker 1>the stone and we'll go down. We'll finish him off.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, all right, fucking down, all right, uh go

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<v Speaker 1>down there. Everything goes into action. We're out in the

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<v Speaker 1>front of the fucking pub, the Lord Wolvesley of the Alderman,

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll get at the door, hop in the car

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, come on, opened up the door, and

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<v Speaker 1>he said, you wouldn't believe it. He said, Rogers just

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<v Speaker 1>called me right And I went, yeah, what about it?

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<v Speaker 1>And he said, well, can you just drop the fucking

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<v Speaker 1>gun out? I said, what about the money? He said,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't give nothing. I thought, that's been fucking weird.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, yeah, I'll drop that fucking off that again.

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<v Speaker 1>If I get you know, I'm not going to get

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<v Speaker 1>picked for it or my fight that I drive off

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<v Speaker 1>the next minute. My money been gone about three minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>Going up through the city. I'm going to go into

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<v Speaker 1>William Street and the cross to the to a hotel

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<v Speaker 1>right at the top where the Coca Cola sign is,

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<v Speaker 1>so as I'm I'm going along, I thought, what's this

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<v Speaker 1>fucking penalvan doing? This? Panel? Van kept on coming out,

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<v Speaker 1>and I seeing the curtains moon like an ild Sandman

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<v Speaker 1>serving wagon, thought are these coppers or they fucking crooks

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<v Speaker 1>or what? So anyway, I pulled up in Williams Street,

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<v Speaker 1>come around up Parts and James down around the back

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<v Speaker 1>of the church down there, come to the New Zealand

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<v Speaker 1>Hotel and went left into william Street. As I come

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<v Speaker 1>to the first set of lights, they pull up just

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit back from me. So I put down

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<v Speaker 1>the window of the electric winner of the jag and

0:11:52.001 --> 0:11:55.321
<v Speaker 1>I went, what are you fucking looking right to the

0:11:55.401 --> 0:11:59.001
<v Speaker 1>driver right, and he just went I thought, well, I

0:11:59.041 --> 0:12:00.641
<v Speaker 1>called him a dog, and I was open if he

0:12:00.761 --> 0:12:05.441
<v Speaker 1>was a grimmy fucking bird, you get fuck you know, thought, well,

0:12:05.481 --> 0:12:07.681
<v Speaker 1>I know who they are, and yes I would. And

0:12:07.801 --> 0:12:10.121
<v Speaker 1>I was already armed anyway, I had my own gun.

0:12:10.201 --> 0:12:13.601
<v Speaker 1>I carried it right, and the cops neared that right,

0:12:14.081 --> 0:12:17.041
<v Speaker 1>So here I am with this other gun. Well, this

0:12:17.161 --> 0:12:20.841
<v Speaker 1>is the gun that shot Michael Brewery, right, this is

0:12:20.881 --> 0:12:25.321
<v Speaker 1>the gun that Chotty. But I gave through the fucking life. Well,

0:12:25.361 --> 0:12:27.841
<v Speaker 1>for some reason. I just fucking pulled the gun out

0:12:27.841 --> 0:12:30.161
<v Speaker 1>of the bag and opened up the fucking their bullets,

0:12:30.161 --> 0:12:34.561
<v Speaker 1>and I went, it's a fucking strange So anyway, I

0:12:34.561 --> 0:12:36.441
<v Speaker 1>got up the raid and I'm still watching this panel.

0:12:36.521 --> 0:12:40.001
<v Speaker 1>Then pulled into the left off william Street. Went to

0:12:40.041 --> 0:12:42.521
<v Speaker 1>the pub. But there's a big bay window in that pub.

0:12:43.001 --> 0:12:44.601
<v Speaker 1>I forget the name, but now he used to get

0:12:44.641 --> 0:12:47.041
<v Speaker 1>up there. That's where a song with Ricky Mayn. I

0:12:47.121 --> 0:12:48.681
<v Speaker 1>got up there in the big last window there, and

0:12:48.721 --> 0:12:50.281
<v Speaker 1>I'm watching them. Then you went up the top of

0:12:50.321 --> 0:12:52.841
<v Speaker 1>Williams Street, turned right, then right again with the old

0:12:52.881 --> 0:12:55.641
<v Speaker 1>fire station. Wasn't parked on the left, so in goes

0:12:55.681 --> 0:12:59.001
<v Speaker 1>the panel down. Then I pulled the detective's car beside

0:12:59.041 --> 0:13:01.001
<v Speaker 1>it A detected get in and I'm trying to look

0:13:01.041 --> 0:13:05.001
<v Speaker 1>over to see. I thought it's at Anderson. I wasn't

0:13:05.121 --> 0:13:07.161
<v Speaker 1>one hundred hundred percent, you know, because I was a

0:13:07.161 --> 0:13:09.841
<v Speaker 1>bit away from him. He got out me fucking up,

0:13:10.001 --> 0:13:14.041
<v Speaker 1>you know, and I thought the cops. I thought, well,

0:13:14.041 --> 0:13:18.601
<v Speaker 1>what's fucking going on here? I thought, And I started

0:13:18.601 --> 0:13:21.161
<v Speaker 1>to think, and I went, I just sort of come

0:13:21.201 --> 0:13:24.081
<v Speaker 1>to me right, and I went, I been fucking set

0:13:24.161 --> 0:13:27.881
<v Speaker 1>up here. What's fucking going on. Then I thought about

0:13:27.881 --> 0:13:31.921
<v Speaker 1>the gun, right, I went, Or who they worry about

0:13:31.921 --> 0:13:33.961
<v Speaker 1>that when they've got that one there, which is my

0:13:34.041 --> 0:13:36.801
<v Speaker 1>own gun. I'm going to get into that anyway. And

0:13:36.881 --> 0:13:38.841
<v Speaker 1>he gets six months before I do. Go to joke,

0:13:38.921 --> 0:13:43.001
<v Speaker 1>you know, So I went anyway, So I went, fuck it.

0:13:43.041 --> 0:13:44.481
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to drive out of the cross and

0:13:44.481 --> 0:13:47.361
<v Speaker 1>through the cross and down through Rushgater's Bay. I'll go

0:13:47.401 --> 0:13:50.121
<v Speaker 1>into the fucking lines then where I always go, you know,

0:13:50.321 --> 0:13:52.281
<v Speaker 1>I want. I always go into the fucking where it is,

0:13:52.841 --> 0:13:55.241
<v Speaker 1>so I said, because I never know otherwise. So I

0:13:55.361 --> 0:13:58.801
<v Speaker 1>drove up the top, turn right right again. Panel Van

0:13:59.401 --> 0:14:01.561
<v Speaker 1>a Cople goes out in front of Panel Land comes

0:14:01.601 --> 0:14:05.441
<v Speaker 1>beyond me. Same way. I passed the cathedral into some

0:14:05.561 --> 0:14:09.281
<v Speaker 1>James in the market street. Come through the lights. Next

0:14:09.281 --> 0:14:11.521
<v Speaker 1>fuck a minute. As I come through the copper sitting

0:14:11.561 --> 0:14:14.001
<v Speaker 1>on the left hand side of the well, the city's dead,

0:14:14.081 --> 0:14:17.001
<v Speaker 1>sad day afternoon. All the shops are shut, you know,

0:14:17.201 --> 0:14:20.321
<v Speaker 1>the man in those days, and they just shut at midday.

0:14:20.441 --> 0:14:23.201
<v Speaker 1>So it's quite as a mount. So it's about that

0:14:23.321 --> 0:14:26.121
<v Speaker 1>pass thround the afternoon and he's got his wheel turned

0:14:26.201 --> 0:14:27.921
<v Speaker 1>right out like that, ready to come straight out and

0:14:27.921 --> 0:14:30.321
<v Speaker 1>block me. So I just mounted the other side of

0:14:30.321 --> 0:14:33.121
<v Speaker 1>the fucking street and threw it in reverse, went fucking

0:14:33.161 --> 0:14:36.441
<v Speaker 1>flying back past the panel fan right into fucking Castle

0:14:36.521 --> 0:14:38.801
<v Speaker 1>Race Street. Well, I just missed two buses. They went, well,

0:14:39.921 --> 0:14:42.161
<v Speaker 1>I'm right in the fucking guts of them all. I

0:14:42.201 --> 0:14:44.521
<v Speaker 1>got out of the car and they come out of

0:14:44.521 --> 0:14:46.841
<v Speaker 1>the back of the panel van. They've got ballots on.

0:14:47.841 --> 0:14:51.841
<v Speaker 1>Well I fucking went there. Fucking crooks, jared, I sound

0:14:51.921 --> 0:14:56.361
<v Speaker 1>fucking off, I thought, fuck. Next minute, the copper takes off.

0:14:56.481 --> 0:14:59.041
<v Speaker 1>I just seen hear him. Gal thought, well, is he

0:14:59.121 --> 0:15:00.321
<v Speaker 1>going to come and try and get me? So I

0:15:00.361 --> 0:15:02.041
<v Speaker 1>opened the car and I just want we'll fuck it on.

0:15:02.121 --> 0:15:05.281
<v Speaker 1>Facing the opposite way up the one way street. People

0:15:05.401 --> 0:15:07.561
<v Speaker 1>two nat me and buses and so I just went

0:15:07.601 --> 0:15:10.881
<v Speaker 1>fucking straight up and went down the lord Nelsone got

0:15:10.881 --> 0:15:13.121
<v Speaker 1>down there and hid the guns. I got down there

0:15:13.121 --> 0:15:15.801
<v Speaker 1>and I went, fuck, what fucking happened here? You know

0:15:15.801 --> 0:15:18.401
<v Speaker 1>that sounds scratching me fucking trying to think. I went,

0:15:18.681 --> 0:15:21.041
<v Speaker 1>fucking I'm going back there. So I just went back

0:15:21.081 --> 0:15:22.641
<v Speaker 1>and I said I'll be able to pick him like that.

0:15:23.121 --> 0:15:25.201
<v Speaker 1>You know, when I went back with part of the

0:15:25.281 --> 0:15:26.841
<v Speaker 1>car and I walked around the corner. I still got

0:15:26.841 --> 0:15:29.321
<v Speaker 1>the fucking gun. Then I got my gun and I

0:15:29.401 --> 0:15:37.641
<v Speaker 1>walked out. Well, he's fucking Jordan, right, and he went, uh,

0:15:38.161 --> 0:15:42.721
<v Speaker 1>what's wrong? What's wrong? Man? You can tell? I said,

0:15:43.001 --> 0:15:46.001
<v Speaker 1>I either just try to get kidnapped or something. All

0:15:46.041 --> 0:15:48.241
<v Speaker 1>the fucking coppers were trying to fucking pinch me. But

0:15:48.881 --> 0:15:51.681
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so that was a fucking setup. He's

0:15:51.721 --> 0:15:54.441
<v Speaker 1>your fucking gun. I'd already wiped it, right, he was

0:15:54.441 --> 0:15:57.161
<v Speaker 1>in the paper fucking bag. I fucking passed to him.

0:15:57.401 --> 0:16:00.881
<v Speaker 1>Here it is, fucking see you later. I'm fucking out

0:16:00.881 --> 0:16:03.521
<v Speaker 1>of here. There's something fucking not right here. So I

0:16:03.721 --> 0:16:06.041
<v Speaker 1>drove off and he was fucking didn't say, fucking dude,

0:16:06.881 --> 0:16:09.161
<v Speaker 1>got around the corner, I drove off. I went down

0:16:09.201 --> 0:16:11.201
<v Speaker 1>the street and I hopped down and I stayed in

0:16:11.241 --> 0:16:14.241
<v Speaker 1>the same street, just a little one way street from that, right,

0:16:14.881 --> 0:16:17.841
<v Speaker 1>and I just sat in this tenement house. And next

0:16:17.881 --> 0:16:23.281
<v Speaker 1>fucking half an hour, huh, here they come our pools, Roger,

0:16:23.641 --> 0:16:27.921
<v Speaker 1>our pools. Another cover. Right, another couple pulls up three covers.

0:16:28.401 --> 0:16:34.321
<v Speaker 1>He had come Penaguess Flannery. Thank god, I got just

0:16:34.481 --> 0:16:34.921
<v Speaker 1>now us