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Speaker 1: I personally do this work because I really plugged into it.

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Speaker 1: I was a fearful, avoidant attachment style, and relationships growing

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Speaker 1: up for me, all I saw was chaos, and relationships

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Speaker 1: in my young adult life, like in my late teens

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Speaker 1: early twenties, were also chaos. I was like the crazy one.

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Speaker 1: I was really. I struggled a lot, but I also

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Speaker 1: profoundly plunged into the work, and I did it from

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Speaker 1: the perspective of like I'm going to retrain my brain,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to retrain my body. I'm going to show

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Speaker 1: up for this and I will truthfully say that I

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Speaker 1: am so fulfilled in my relationship. I am so grateful.

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Speaker 1: It's literally one of the things I'm most grateful for

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Speaker 1: on this planet. If you asked me fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 1: before I really did the work, do you think that

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Speaker 1: you're going to be in a secure, healthy relationship, I

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Speaker 1: would be like, No, I grew up be in like

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Speaker 1: I'm never getting married. I'm never doing that. You obviously

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Speaker 1: need commitment, and it's going to depend on your ability

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Speaker 1: to show up and do these things. But it's a

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Speaker 1: very solvable problem.

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Speaker 2: Good I thanks for listening to the show. This is

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Speaker 2: better than Yesterday. That's the name of the podcast. Useful

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Speaker 2: tools and useful conversations to help make your day to

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Speaker 2: day better than it was yesterday, every episode since twenty

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Speaker 2: and thirteen. My name's Oshia Ginsburg. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for being here. It's the first couple weeks of December,

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Speaker 2: and it's just me or is it the time of

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Speaker 2: year when relationships start to come into focus? Because when

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Speaker 2: we begin to reflect on the year, we might be

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Speaker 2: feeling I don't know, burned out, maybe exhausted, So either

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Speaker 2: we are harder to deal with or we are more

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Speaker 2: sensitive to others around us. And you soon, look, we

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Speaker 2: might be going on a break shortly, We're go about

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Speaker 2: to spend a bunch of time around people we love

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Speaker 2: and possible close proximity to people we haven't seen it.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes all these things can really play a part with

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Speaker 2: us really kind of figuring out and being aware of

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Speaker 2: how our relationships are doing. And look, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of information out there to help you, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: self diagnose or figure out exactly how you will love

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Speaker 2: or your loved ones act the way you do to

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Speaker 2: know where things might not be as easy as you

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Speaker 2: want them to be. But sometimes What doesn't get talked

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Speaker 2: about are ways that you could change or is that

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Speaker 2: even possible. Thankfully, my guest today knows for sure there

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Speaker 2: are plenty of ways to change, and yes, it is

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Speaker 2: very possible. My guest today is Tys Gibson. She is

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Speaker 2: a counselor, speaker, and a leader in the personal development field.

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Speaker 2: She's got a PhD. She's satisfied and other thirteen separate modalities.

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Speaker 2: Has even founded her own theories and her own method.

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Speaker 2: She's written two books, Learning Love and Attachment Theory. She's

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Speaker 2: got nearly forty million views across her social platform. She's very,

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Speaker 2: very powerful. She's been a guest on the Mel Robbins

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Speaker 2: podcast Women of Impact. She's a solid operator. She also

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Speaker 2: hosts her own in depth programs, courses and modules at

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Speaker 2: the Personal Development Score is what it's called. Look, we

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Speaker 2: cover a lot in this conversation. Not only does Tice

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Speaker 2: well and truly know her stuff, she also knows just

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Speaker 2: how to communicate that stuff and how we can put

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Speaker 2: it into practice right now and perhaps some changes in

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Speaker 2: our own lives now. If tyst She's got systems, she's

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Speaker 2: got steps, she's got examples, she's got practical takeaways. This

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Speaker 2: thing is wall to war. So we go through a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff here, including attachment, codependency, changing any limiting

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Speaker 2: thoughts which might be appearing in your subconscious mind, what

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Speaker 2: resentment really means when it shows up in our lives,

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Speaker 2: and moving through the six stages of a relationship. Yes,

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Speaker 2: she's identified six and right at the end, some really

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Speaker 2: really valuable frameworks for working through conflict. You may need

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Speaker 2: to take some notes during this, you may need to

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Speaker 2: save it. You may need to send us someone you

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Speaker 2: care about. There's a lot going in here. It's an

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Speaker 2: absolute masterclass. Enjoy this conversation with Tys Gibson. Tys, how

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Speaker 2: are you mate?

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Speaker 1: I'm wonderful. How are you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean you know it's all right, Like many

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Speaker 2: married people. Had an unplanned disagreement with my wife this morning,

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Speaker 2: and that's an okay way to start, I think because

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Speaker 2: I for a long time I worked in the reality

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Speaker 2: dating space. I hosted The Bachelor here in Australia, and

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Speaker 2: there is this idea that I don't know once once

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Speaker 2: we get there and then you know, the big drawing

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Speaker 2: shot pulls away from us entire land. Well, everything's fine

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Speaker 2: from there on out. It's just queer silent. At what

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Speaker 2: point did you go, you know what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to grow up and tell other people why

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Speaker 2: their relationships aren't good. At what point did this become

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Speaker 2: a thing that you felt, you know, I have to

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Speaker 2: do this because I can't do anything else.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I started teaching before I did anything about the

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Speaker 1: subconscious mind and neuroplasticity, how we rewire our wounds and

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Speaker 1: our fears and our triggers. And I started working in

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Speaker 1: private practice there, and then I eventually revisited attachment theory,

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Speaker 1: which I learned in first year university, and was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: they talk about attachment styles and how everybody has one,

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Speaker 1: but they never tell us how to rewire and change them.

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Speaker 1: So I started actually like bridging all of this neuroplasticity

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Speaker 1: research and neuroscience research into a relationship and working in

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Speaker 1: private practice, and then had a lot of clients being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, can you publish it somewhere? Can you put

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Speaker 1: it online? Started putting it online just for clients in

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Speaker 1: my practice, and then you know, sort of by accident,

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Speaker 1: our YouTube channel took off. So I wouldn't say it

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Speaker 1: was like a I thought about it in advance. I

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Speaker 1: sort of, I guess ended up there.

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Speaker 2: Right before we start. I mean, I think it's important

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Speaker 2: for people to understand the concept of neural plasticity in

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Speaker 2: that is something that I'm sitting here before you, because

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Speaker 2: it exists, but our brains can give us the false

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Speaker 2: idea that this is how it is, is how it

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Speaker 2: was always be. I can never change, you can never

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Speaker 2: change blah. But that's not true. Is it not.

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Speaker 1: True at all? And the part of us it says

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Speaker 1: that and it tells ourselves that is usually a conscious mind.

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Speaker 1: So your conscious mind is a logical, analytical thinking part

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Speaker 1: of your brain, and your subconscious mind is your habituated self.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes our conscious mind feels helpless. Oh, I said

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Speaker 1: I was going to quit eating chocolate in New Year's

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Speaker 1: I said I was going to stop raising my voice

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Speaker 1: at my partner. I said I was going to break

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Speaker 1: this bad habit of smoking cigarettes. And I didn't. And

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Speaker 1: so it must be helpless. I must not be able

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Speaker 1: to change. But usually it's not bad. It's that we

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Speaker 1: just haven't figured out how our subconscious mind works, how

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Speaker 1: rewiring works. And so if we don't know that, then

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Speaker 1: we're using our conscious mind, which is responsible for three

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Speaker 1: to five percent of all of our belief, thoughts, emotions,

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Speaker 1: and choices. To then try to outwill our subconscious mind,

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Speaker 1: which actually we can't. We can't really outwill, We can

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Speaker 1: only rewire. And your subconscious is ninety five to ninety

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Speaker 1: seven percent.

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Speaker 2: So when it comes through relationships, this can be very

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Speaker 2: difficult because whether we like it or not. Sometimes I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that I'm immune to this, though sometimes we

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Speaker 2: might accidentally, even though it looks and smells and feels

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Speaker 2: and has named a different person, we can end up

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Speaker 2: with the same type of person that may or may

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Speaker 2: not be very similar to one of our parents who

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Speaker 2: just to say, and we don't understand that these choices

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Speaker 2: are getting made for, So how do we get a

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Speaker 2: little wedge in there? And even well, I noticed that

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Speaker 2: it's happening in base dot to rewire those things.

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Speaker 1: I think the first thing to recognize is that your

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Speaker 1: subconscious mind wants what's familiar because it equates it to

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Speaker 1: safety and thus survival. So what is actually the most

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Speaker 1: familiar is the way that we treat ourselves. Now, of course,

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Speaker 1: the way we treat ourselves usually is conditioned by our childhood.

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Speaker 1: So let's say for example, just to keep it really simple,

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Speaker 1: I'd say somebody was criticized a lot growing up as

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Speaker 1: a kid. Well, then often you're going to become very

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Speaker 1: critical of yourself because that's your condition, that was what

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Speaker 1: was mirrored to you, that's your programming. And as a

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Speaker 1: result of that, then you're going to end up often

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Speaker 1: being attracted to people long term who mirror that back

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Speaker 1: to you. Because your conscious minds is I don't like this,

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Speaker 1: your logical minds is I don't like this, your subconsciosnises,

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Speaker 1: oh this is safe, this is familiar, we know this,

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Speaker 1: and so then we end up picking from those patterns.

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Speaker 1: So so much of rewiring, I mean so much of

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Speaker 1: real wiring is about firing and wiring your own networks

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Speaker 1: that are strong enough to stick. And we can do

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Speaker 1: it in different areas. We can do it with core

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Speaker 1: wounds and triggers, we can do with boundaries or behaviors.

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Speaker 1: But what we really ultimately want to be able to do,

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Speaker 1: and I guess it can share a tool if you like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you asked a very big question. But let's

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Speaker 1: say you have a trigger. Let's say you have a

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Speaker 1: belief then that I'm not good enough and let's say

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Speaker 1: that's something you're caring for a long period of time. Well,

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Speaker 1: your conscious mind doesn't have that belief. No one's waking

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Speaker 1: up and being like, I'm going to tell myself all

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Speaker 1: day long, I'm not good enough and see how I feel.

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Speaker 1: Where nobody's choosing that your subconscious mind has acquired that

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Speaker 1: program from earlier conditioning. So maybe you were constantly talked

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Speaker 1: down to, or maybe your parents a lot that by

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Speaker 1: being critical they were going to prepare you for life,

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Speaker 1: and the repetition of hearing what you did wrong and

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Speaker 1: where you weren't good enough eventually conditioned in that belief

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Speaker 1: system for you. But that's a very solvable problem, and

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Speaker 1: we can actually change it. So we start by making

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Speaker 1: sure that we find the limiting belief in its opposite a.

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Speaker 1: Step one, so not good enough, I am good enough,

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Speaker 1: betray it, I can have loyalty, I'll be abandoned, I

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Speaker 1: can be connected to me. We peck a belief that's

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Speaker 1: really showing up for us and our triggers, and we

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Speaker 1: find it's opposite. Step two. We have to speak to

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Speaker 1: the subconscious mind, which does not speak a language. It

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Speaker 1: speaks in emotions and in images, and so affirmations don't

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Speaker 1: really work that well because affirmations are just language. It's

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Speaker 1: like saying I'm good enough, I'm going.

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Speaker 2: To I'm just going to cancel my I was going

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Speaker 2: to cancel my cat posted business one second, like okay,

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Speaker 2: I have all these posts and say you're gonna be fine,

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Speaker 2: I'm worthy of it, not gonna make any money now.

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Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I.

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Speaker 2: Didn't know this coffee cup as well had a whole

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Speaker 2: line of But affirmations is the thing, you know. It's

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Speaker 2: just because it's a tile on an Instagram doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: it's going to change your life, does it. It's literally

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Speaker 2: just words, so you're saying it's emotions and feelings. So yes, affirmations.

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Speaker 2: I've said them in savashna at the end of a

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Speaker 2: yoga class and I've felt nice. But it doesn't. Why

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Speaker 2: doesn't an affirmation tick the box?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because your conscious mind speaks language, and your subconscious

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Speaker 1: speaks and emotions and images. So if I say to you,

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Speaker 1: whatever you do, do not think of a pink elephant,

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Speaker 1: you probably yeah, because your conscious your conscious hears, do not.

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Speaker 1: And here's the language, and your subconscious just speaks in

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Speaker 1: emotions and images, which just flashes these things out, so

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Speaker 1: we have to actually come up with emotions and images

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Speaker 1: to represent the new idea. So if we say I

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Speaker 1: am good enough, then we need emotion and imagery to

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Speaker 1: prove that to ourselves, and we can actually find that

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Speaker 1: in memory. If you look at old memory. All memory

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Speaker 1: is a container of emotions and imagery. So if you

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Speaker 1: were to tell your favorite childhood memory, you might be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was playing at the beach, and you see the

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Speaker 1: images of the sand in the ocean. And we've seen

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Speaker 1: people when they tell old stories or old memories they

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Speaker 1: smile or they laugh, and it's because memories actually contain

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Speaker 1: emotions that were sort of connected to them at the time.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of the steps to rewire, we go

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Speaker 1: number one, what's the belief in its opposite, I'm not

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Speaker 1: good enough? I am good enough? Number two, we need

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Speaker 1: repetition of emotion and imagery. It's what fires and wires

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Speaker 1: neural pathways together. So we would need ten memories of

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Speaker 1: times we did feel good enough. People might say I

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Speaker 1: was a really good friend yesterday, or I showed up

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Speaker 1: to have that hard conversation with my boss last week.

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Speaker 1: So we find these evident moments of memory where we

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Speaker 1: did feel that way, we did see that we were

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Speaker 1: good enough. And step three we actually record ourselves saying

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Speaker 1: it out loud into our phone and we listen back

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Speaker 1: for at least twenty one days while in an alpha

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Speaker 1: brainwave state. So your brain is more suggestible when it's

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Speaker 1: producing alpha data brain waves, which is the first hour

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Speaker 1: that you wake up, the last hour before bed, after meditation,

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Speaker 1: after yoga class, after heavy duty exercise, where we're sort

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Speaker 1: of in that relaxed state, And what happens is when

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Speaker 1: we're producing more alpha brainwaves, or our subconscious mind is

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Speaker 1: more suggestible, it's more open to taking information in. And

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Speaker 1: so if we do those three steps, we're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: what's the wound or trigger and its opposite? Ten pieces

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Speaker 1: of memory to support the new idea, I am good enough,

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Speaker 1: record it down, listen back for twenty one days. In

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Speaker 1: alpha brain wave mode, we actually are able to get

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Speaker 1: our conscious mind to commit, unicate to our subconscious mind,

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Speaker 1: and allow that information to permeate so that we change

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Speaker 1: our neural networks and neural pathways over time to feel

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Speaker 1: differently about ourselves.

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Speaker 2: So I'm recording myself going, I might think that everyone

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Speaker 2: at work thinks I'm an idiot. However, there was a

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Speaker 2: time when they called me up in front of the

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Speaker 2: office and said I did a good job. And there

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Speaker 2: was a time where I fixed the printer and that. Like,

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Speaker 2: so you record those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you don't start at the beginning. You don't say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I think that everybody thinks that I'm an idiot at.

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Speaker 2: So I'm actually really good at work. Here's why, right,

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Speaker 2: And when.

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Speaker 1: We are when we are listening back to ourselves saying it,

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Speaker 1: we ideally want to be feeling as much as we

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Speaker 1: can in our body. Like when I had that hard

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Speaker 1: discussion at work on the phone, Hey, I actually felt

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Speaker 1: proud about that. I handled that well, really feeling about

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Speaker 1: that and really seeing focused on visualizing what that experience

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Speaker 1: was like, how it when, what was around me. And

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Speaker 1: if we stay really tuned into doing that for a

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes a day, while we're listening back to

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Speaker 1: the recording, we're literally getting repetition of emotions and images,

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Speaker 1: which is the language of our subconscious mind. It's the

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Speaker 1: language of firing and wiring neuneral networks.

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Speaker 2: Your work centers around intimate relationships, but the relationships that

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Speaker 2: we have in our lives extend well beyond that. And

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Speaker 2: certainly a relationship where there is a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: love and no intimacy is a relationship between a parent

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Speaker 2: and a child or a step parent and a stepchild.

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Speaker 2: Are we able to in, you know, say, if we're

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out something about you know, particularly if

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Speaker 2: it's a teenage person, you know, there's probably very little

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Speaker 2: willingness on their part to change how the dynamic is

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Speaker 2: between us. If only one person is willing to work

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Speaker 2: on stuff like that little shit always ungrateful Blair, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have to change this. Is it possible for

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Speaker 2: one person inside the relationship to do this work and

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Speaker 2: then affect both of you?

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Speaker 1: So the answer is yes and no. I always say

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Speaker 1: to people that you know, especially in marriages, you know

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Speaker 1: each person and is one hundred percent responsible for their

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of the relationship. And there can be occasions

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Speaker 1: or cases where somebody's just pouring into the relationship, trying

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Speaker 1: so hard, and the other person's literally unwilling to do

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Speaker 1: the work with you, or to show up or to

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Speaker 1: have that hard conversation. And in that case you're going

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Speaker 1: to see, well, you can't do anything for somebody else.

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Speaker 1: We kind of enter into codependent territory or domain when

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Speaker 1: we expect that. However, at the same time, when we're

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Speaker 1: looking at parent child relationships, especially when that child's still

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Speaker 1: living in the home, there are things that we can

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Speaker 1: do as a human being that create more coregulation and

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Speaker 1: a better chance or ability for somebody to be more

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Speaker 1: likely to open up. So, for example, teenagers respond to

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Speaker 1: having their needs honored very well because teenagers are going

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Speaker 1: through a specific stage of behavioral development where when they

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Speaker 1: feel like they're seen as their own person, when they

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Speaker 1: feel like their autonomy is honored, they're more likely to

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Speaker 1: actually feel a sense of connection to the person who's

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Speaker 1: doing that for them, who's embracing them at that behavioral

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Speaker 1: stage of development. Also, if somebody's validating your emotions, if

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Speaker 1: they make you feel seen and heard, and if somebody

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Speaker 1: is accepting a non judgmental we're more likely to let

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Speaker 1: our guard down around those people feel more comfortable and

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Speaker 1: when our feelings are validated, we feel like somebody's on

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Speaker 1: our side. So there are things that we can do

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Speaker 1: in terms of how we communicate, how we show up

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Speaker 1: to try to support somebody more that is more likely

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Speaker 1: to create a healthier bonder connection in a relationship. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily guarantee that that person's going to be

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Speaker 1: willing to work through things with you and completely transform everything.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned codependency there. This won't be the first time

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Speaker 2: someone's heard that phrase. What does that look like? Where

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Speaker 2: does codependency come into a picture?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. So codependency is actually quite

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Speaker 1: common in people's relationships, and it's this idea that somebody

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Speaker 1: is taking more responsibility that is necessary over somebody else's

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Speaker 1: life and somebody else's emotions, irrespective of if the person

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Speaker 1: on the receiving end of that wants responsibility for them

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Speaker 1: to be taken or not. So an example is you

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Speaker 1: might see somebody who is trying to handhold their partner's

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Speaker 1: spouse saying no, you have to eat this way, or

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Speaker 1: stop drinking or stop doing these things, and they're sort

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Speaker 1: of trying to control somebody else's behavior and output. And

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Speaker 1: actually people who are attempting to do the controlling, what

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Speaker 1: they're actually trying to do is control somebody else's behavior

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Speaker 1: as a way to control their own feelings. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: maybe you have a husband and wife, and maybe the

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Speaker 1: wife is saying I need my husband to live his

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Speaker 1: life in this certain way, and she starts trying to

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Speaker 1: control how the husband is showing up and living well.

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Speaker 1: The reality is that she's actually just trying to control

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Speaker 1: her husband's behavior because she's trying to control how her

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Speaker 1: husband's behavior makes her feel. And so it's an attempt

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Speaker 1: to regulate oneself through the control or actions towards another person,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of times it can be confusing for

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Speaker 1: people because in you're mixed within there are positive things

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Speaker 1: like oh, well, I want you to stop drinking so

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Speaker 1: much so that your health and that can be positive,

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Speaker 1: but also, you know, we're often doing things indirectly. So

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Speaker 1: instead of saying, hey, I'm going to have to set

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Speaker 1: boundaries around this drinking. It's been unhealthy, this is no

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Speaker 1: longer appropriate, and hey, I'm going to show up for

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Speaker 1: the responsibility, responsibility of how that makes me feel and

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Speaker 1: what I'm okay for, instead of doing it from you know,

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Speaker 1: the inside out and speaking about one's own feelings and

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Speaker 1: needs and boundaries. Instead it's like, no, no, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to change your behavior and focus on you rather than

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Speaker 1: speaking for myself. And unfortunately, codependency is a result of

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Speaker 1: that just creates more headaches long term, and it's not

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Speaker 1: really the right way of approaching things.

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Speaker 2: We might not realize this is something that nobody does deliberately. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: we might find ourselves kind of in that space. What

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Speaker 2: are some things we might want to ask to figure

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Speaker 2: out if we might be overstepping the line.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of codependency shows up in a few places,

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Speaker 1: so I guess we can go through symptoms to see

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Speaker 1: if this might be something that we're struggling with. Symptom

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Speaker 1: number one would be that you have a lot of

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Speaker 1: resentment in your relationshipseople who are very codependent or more

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Speaker 1: prone to resentment, because resentment is really a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of unmet needs and a lack of communication, and so

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Speaker 1: somebody is often in a place where they're trying to

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Speaker 1: control rather than speak of their own needs, Hey I'm

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Speaker 1: needing more of this, or saying no, you stop doing that,

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Speaker 1: you should change this, and so Symptom number one if

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Speaker 1: you're likely to feel resentment when you're trying to control

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Speaker 1: the other people's behavior and it's not going well. Simptom

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Speaker 1: number two is generally codependents are people pleasers. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to get their needs met from others by basically changing

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Speaker 1: themselves to be what they think people need them to be,

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Speaker 1: and of course that creates a lot of dysfunction. Sometim

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Speaker 1: number three is poor boundaries. If you're very boundaryless in relationships,

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Speaker 1: you're likely to be struggling with codependency. Symptom number four

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Speaker 1: is something called covert contracts, And a covert contract is

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Speaker 1: when we say, oh, I'm going to do these five

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Speaker 1: nice things for you, and I think if I do

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Speaker 1: these five nice things for you the next week, I

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Speaker 1: can maybe ask you to do that one nice thing

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Speaker 1: for me. And so we're essentially trying to buy our

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Speaker 1: way into asking for our needs and really tracking who's

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Speaker 1: giving more, who has the upper hand, all these different

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Speaker 1: things in a relationship, which again just leads to so

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Speaker 1: much dysfunction, because it's so much better to just say

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Speaker 1: this is what I'm needing, what do you need, and

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Speaker 1: have open dialogue and transparent communication. And then I would say,

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Speaker 1: another really big symptom of codependency is when somebody's in

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Speaker 1: a position where they are betraying and self silencing themselves,

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Speaker 1: so they are not allowing themselves to take up space.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of being inauthentic about their own truth and relationships.

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Speaker 1: And until you learn to do that, you're obviously also

400
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Speaker 1: going to step into more resentment and that so the

401
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Speaker 1: very last thing is when people believe that they are

402
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Speaker 1: responsible for other people's feelings and they really take that

403
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Speaker 1: on and take that to heart. So those are some

404
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Speaker 1: big symptoms you'd see of codependency.

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Speaker 2: Resentment is as I'm a cyber person. It's one of

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Speaker 2: those things that I had to learn very quickly. I

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Speaker 2: had to get rid of it. I wasn't I will

408
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Speaker 2: to hold it. It was like it was like picking

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Speaker 2: up a taking a pot out of the oven without

410
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Speaker 2: any you know, and any oven myths, Like if I

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Speaker 2: held it, I would get hurt because of if I

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Speaker 2: had this resentment. I always found that resentment gave me

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Speaker 2: a justification for behaving in a way that was not

414
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Speaker 2: aligned with my values. It gave me a justification for

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Speaker 2: being the kind of person I did not want to be.

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Speaker 2: But because when I held resentment, I was like yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I well, of course I did, and I ended

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Speaker 2: up it really just pulled me off to one side.

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Speaker 2: So I have to be so careful when it shows up,

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Speaker 2: and as a result, I try. I try really hard

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Speaker 2: to just like off gas it like a pressure cooker,

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Speaker 2: like all day. I have to just let it go

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Speaker 2: because I can't have it in me. And I got

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Speaker 2: lucky because I identify that I don't do it perfectly

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Speaker 2: all the time, obviously, but it's something that I'm really

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Speaker 2: really mindful of when it comes to resentment. What are

427
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Speaker 2: your What's a way that we might be able to

428
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Speaker 2: let go of something? I know the way that I

429
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 2: do it. I do it for a thing called metal

430
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Speaker 2: or loving kindness, meditation. What's a way that you could

431
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Speaker 2: recommend or a way that people might be able to

432
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: approach releasing resentment out of their life.

433
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: This is a great question. I have four major steps

434
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: for this.

435
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: I got a lot of great lists to us. I'm

436
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 2: really great lists.

437
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: I like to think in framework very.

438
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: YouTube first or right, like, here's five things you can do.

439
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: This is like a masterclass. I love it. So.

440
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: The first thing, and you actually touch on this in passing,

441
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: is that sometimes we use resentment as a way to

442
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 1: set boundaries, and it's actually a symptom of having poor boundaries.

443
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: So sometimes we say, oh no, I'm going to hold

444
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 1: on to this, and it justifies that I was treated poorly,

445
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: And sometimes that's actually acting as a subconscious substitute for

446
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: just saying to somebody, Hey, I don't like the way

447
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 1: that was handled, And so I often say. Number One,

448
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: we have to check and are we resentful because somebody

449
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 1: hurt us and we didn't speak up about it. We

450
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 1: didn't share our authentic truth in that situation, And that's

451
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: part of why we're carrying it is we never came

452
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: full circle. So step one is checking there, and obviously

453
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: if you're struggling with that, it's time to go have

454
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: that conversation, speak that boundary state the need communicate so

455
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: we can solve for it. Number Two, Another big reason

456
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: we have resentment is that we haven't taken the lessons

457
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 1: away from it yet. So whatever the experience was, that

458
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: is fostering resentment within us. One of the biggest reasons

459
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: we have resmment towards others is because exactly what that

460
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: person's doing to us, we are also currently in the

461
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: habit of doing to ourselves. And an example of this

462
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: could be maybe you're really resentful that that friend is

463
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: always so critical of you. Well, guess when you resent

464
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: it the most, when you're also very critical of yourself.

465
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: So sometimes there's a powerful lesson in there that Hey,

466
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: the reason this is hitting home for me and landing

467
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: so deeply is because I actually need to see what

468
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: within me is re enacting the same patterns and course

469
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: correct for that. Three is oftentimes as well, we carry

470
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: resentment when we're not being vulnerable to people about what

471
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: our needs are in a relationship. So the things that

472
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable for us and being able to say to somebody, hey,

473
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: this is what I'm looking for, these are my standards,

474
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: and so being able to share our authenticity also empowers

475
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: people to better understand us, so we're not constantly getting

476
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: hurt by the same person or repeating those patterns, or

477
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: often get people to check in there. And then the

478
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: very last thing is that sometimes we are resentful about

479
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: things that we haven't seen in a holistic way yet.

480
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,719
Speaker 1: So we often carry things when we've seen them only

481
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: in a one sided perception. And I often get people

482
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 1: and it's a really powerful thing to do at home

483
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: is to look at the thing that you're resenting ask yourself, well,

484
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: how did that serve me in a hidden way? How

485
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: did that teach me? Was there a silver lining? Because

486
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: sometimes for example, we're like, so resentful about maybe your ex.

487
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: You know, I hear this a lot in our programs.

488
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: People will be like, oh, my ex they hurt me,

489
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: they did this terrible thing to me. And then when

490
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: we look sometimes they're like, oh, but when my ex

491
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: hurt me and betrayed me. Out of that really painful experience,

492
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: I found the relationship to myself. I started doing yoga

493
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: or meditation or personal growth and personal development. And sometimes

494
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: when we see wait, there was actually this hidden positive

495
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 1: that came out of it, not to take away from

496
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: the painful event, because that's very valid, but also to

497
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: see it full circle and be like, well, actually, this

498
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: positive thing did show up, did come out of it.

499
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes when we see that in a more holistic way

500
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: and we get out of just this one sided perception

501
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: of all the negative, all the bad, that actually is

502
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: a really powerful way to release resentment at the subconscious level.

503
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier attachment theory, which is the idea of

504
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: secure attachment or insecure attachment, and we get it to

505
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 2: delude to a little earlier about that whether we lock

506
00:24:54,200 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: it or not, we can accidentally repeate patents. When how

507
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: can we figure out if we're in a relationship which

508
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: is either secure or insecure. What are some things that

509
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 2: we can identify which might give us a clue that, ah,

510
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: there's something happening going on here.

511
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I find people have the easiest time identifying when

512
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: I sort of explain the attachment styles, because usually in

513
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: these themes and patterns, you'll be able to pretty quickly

514
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: be like, oh, no, that one is me. So I

515
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: guess people can know first that there are four attachment styles.

516
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: Every single person has one. This is one of the biggest,

517
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: most steady bodies of research and psychology, originating out of

518
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: Cambridge University with John Bolby, and the first attachment cell

519
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: is secure attachment style. It makes up statistically roughly fifty

520
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: percent of the population build that numbers on the decline,

521
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: and securely attached people they have a lot of healthy

522
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: coping mechanisms and relationships. They communicate transparently, they are open,

523
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: they are vulnerable, they respect their own boundaries, They get

524
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: triggered less intensely and less frequently, and they actually report

525
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: not just having the longest lasting relationships, but they report

526
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: being the most fulfilled in those long lasting relationships, which

527
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: I think is an important metric because I've seen too

528
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: many people being in long lasting relationships and they're not happy, right,

529
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: and so that does matter. And so securely attached individuals

530
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: they grow up in childhood having approach oriented behaviors. They

531
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: have parents who are attuned to them, who are present

532
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: with them, and if the child is distressed, they move

533
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: towards the child. They try to sue the child, and

534
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: it teaches it conditions a child to be like, oh, well,

535
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: my needs are worthy of being seen, my emotions are

536
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: safe to express. I can trust people, I can rely

537
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: that people will be there for me. And as a result,

538
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: that's their modeling. It's how they will then treat themselves,

539
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: and it's what they will be attracted to in partners

540
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: in their adult life. And so that's our secure attachment style.

541
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: The goal is to become that way. If we're not

542
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: already knowing that from the insecure attachment styles that we'll

543
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: get into, you can rewire, you can change your patterns.

544
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: You're not born with them. They get conditioned into through

545
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: repetition and emotion. We can change them three insecure attachment styles,

546
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: and you're welcome to as I go through them, what

547
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: you are or might have been in the past. But

548
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: at one end of the continuum we have an anxious

549
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: attachment style. And anxious attachment cells go through real or

550
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: perceived abandonment in childhood. So they either have parents who

551
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: there's an actual abandonment like God forbid, a parent passes

552
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: away or parent leaves doesn't come back to the childhood home,

553
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: and of course that critsy's huge abandonment wounds, but also

554
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: it can be perceived abandonment. It can be repetition of

555
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: parents being there, but then maybe they're working a lot,

556
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: they're always traveling, and so the child gets conditioned to

557
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: feel like love is there, and then love is taken

558
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: away of is there. Love is taken away. And research

559
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: shows that big T trauma one time like the loss

560
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: of a parent, actually shows up in a similar way

561
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: as a lot of repetition of small TA trauma across time.

562
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: A lot of that perceived abandonment can still create these

563
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: big abandonment wounds. So anxiously attach individuals they cope with

564
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: a sphere of abandonment by trying to hold on really

565
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: tight and cling so much and not let anybody out

566
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: of their site. And unfortunately a lot of anxious attachment

567
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: styles they're so preoccupied with closeness that they accidentally invade

568
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: people's boundaries a little bit sometimes, and as a result,

569
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: the thing that they're so scared to create, they accidentally

570
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: often end up in these self fulfilling prophecies around and

571
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 1: also anxiously attached individuals. They are dismissing and avoiding their

572
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: own needs in favor of people pleasing all the time.

573
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: So then they, as a result, are often most attracted

574
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: to other emotionally unavailable people, right because it's people who

575
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: treat them the way they treat themselves. And so they

576
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: often end up in these kind of difficult relationships where

577
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: they feel like they're always chasing, where they date for

578
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: a while and they never really get to a long

579
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: term commitment. And so that's sort of one end of

580
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: the continuum there, and there's two other ones. But before

581
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: I get into the two other ones, do you know

582
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: anybody who's anxious or have you ever? I'm sure you

583
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: use a lot of that on The Bachelor.

584
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: Look, we could go into the various casting ramifications, but

585
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: I could only you know, speak to my own experience,

586
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: and I was understanding of, you know, going through the

587
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: therapy that I've gone through, the attachment stuff I found

588
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: really interesting. And but like most things, Tyson, you can

589
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: know it and you can intellectualize it, but to try

590
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: to get between you and it when it happens faster

591
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: than you can possibly get in front of is another story.

592
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: And that that's where that's where the work is. I

593
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: think that is. It's just often identifying it afterwards. It's

594
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: kind of cruel that where we have three kind of

595
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: separate bits of our brain, they work at different speeds. Unfortunately,

596
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: the most powerful, kind of most gigantic, you know, violent

597
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: one is the one that has zero impulsability, and it's

598
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: the one that causes the most damage, the one that

599
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: then we have to like go through life apologizing for

600
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: the car accident we didn't realize we just caused because

601
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: that's the way that our brains work. It kind of sucks,

602
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: but it's what we've.

603
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: Got, yes, And also it's you know, this is like

604
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: the whole body of work I end up focusing on

605
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: is like how to rewire because to your point, which

606
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: I love that you said that, it's so meaningful, it's

607
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: one thing to see the patterns and understand them, it's

608
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: another thing to rewire them. The healing is in the

609
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: rewiring without rewiring, or just intellectualizing. And so we'll keep

610
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: going through and repeating these same themes, and we can

611
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: talk about maybe a little bit how to rewire some

612
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: of your attachment patterns, because they're very solvable problems, but

613
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: we need the right tools. So at the other end

614
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: of the continuum, in a way from anxious is the

615
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: dismissive avoidant and dismissible avoidance. Grew up with a lot

616
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: of childhood emotional neglect. Obviously that can be in big forms,

617
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: the really big, like parents are never home, food's never

618
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: on the table, but the vast majority of the time

619
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: it's the covert. It's like parents are there and kids

620
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: are at school on time, theirs stability, but there's no attunement.

621
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: If a child cries, it's like, oh, come on, get

622
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: it together, take this out here. Children should be seen

623
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: and not heard. And a child who's actually wired for attuonment,

624
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: they can't understand that their parents are emotionally unavailable to

625
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: them because children personalize everything. So instead a child growing

626
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: up in that kind of environment says, oh, it must

627
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: be me, I must be the problem. This part of me.

628
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: My emotions are not acceptable. They're not worthy, they're not

629
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: safe to express. It's not okay. This part of me

630
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: is defective and broken. Let me just repress all of this,

631
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: park it away, and they get relief by trying to

632
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: not need people. It's the only thing that allows them

633
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: to feel a sense of control over their environment. When

634
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: it comes to this part of them being essentially rejected,

635
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: they're like, well, let me just not try to connect

636
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: emotionally and let me try to not bond. Let me

637
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: repress this, and then I at least feel like I

638
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: am not just longing and waiting and being rejected. And

639
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: so they adapt to this by repressing the emotional part

640
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: of themselves, and as adults, dismissable voidance end up in

641
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: dynamics where they, unfortunately, as soon as things get real

642
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: in relationships are too close or too vulnerable, they're like,

643
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I don't want to feel vulnerable again.

644
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: This part of me is not acceptable. I'm going to

645
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: get trapped and engulfed. Oh my gosh, I need to

646
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: push this person away, and they will cut and run.

647
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: They'll leave things as soon as they get real, and

648
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: they'll often sabotage relationships that way because they're trying not

649
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: to feel like that again. The last attachment style is

650
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: the fearful avoidance, sometimes referred to the disorganized attachment style,

651
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 1: and this individual grows up in a childhood of chaos,

652
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: and usually more extreme chaos. And you can see as

653
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: an analogy, this is not the only thing that would

654
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: cause us. But as an analogy, let's say you have

655
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: a mother who's an alcoholic and one day Mom comes

656
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: home and she's in a good mood and she's loving,

657
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, love is good, love is safe.

658
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: I feel connected to her. This is great. And then

659
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: another day Mom comes home and she's drink a little

660
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: too much and she's angry drunk, and she's cruel and

661
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: she's unpredictable and she's scary and you're like, oh my god,

662
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: love is terrifying. Connection is scary. I need to get back.

663
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: And then another day Mom comes home and she's sober

664
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: and she's in a good mood and she's sweet again

665
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: and she's being nice. She feels a little bit guilty

666
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: about her behavior, and you're like, oh, okay, love is safe.

667
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: Another day Mom is sobering up, but she's detoxing and

668
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: she's really struggling, and she's snippy and she's shut down

669
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, I can't really get close to me.

670
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: Childlike this grows up in an environment where they're like

671
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: I never know what version I'm going to get, and

672
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: so they wire in competing associations or conditioning is such

673
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: that they get competing associations about the same thing, like

674
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: love is sometimes great, sometimes terrifying. And as a result

675
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: of this this this individual as an adult ends up

676
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: wanting closest but also being scared of it. And so

677
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: we'll see whether it was mom was an alcoholic or

678
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: a parent had narcissistic personality disorder. Love bombed you one day,

679
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: was terrifying another day. These types of scenarios, maybe you

680
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: saw a lot of trauma growing up, with tons of

681
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: fighting in the home, abuse. These types of things cause

682
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: a child to be like I cannot trust connection. I

683
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: don't know what version I'm getting, and so they have

684
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: this anxious side to them or they want closeness and

685
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: they're scared of being abandoned and love being taken away.

686
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: But on the flip side, when people get too close,

687
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: they're like, wait, get back, I don't trust this. This

688
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: is scary and so fearful avoidance. As adults, they're the

689
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: hot and cold partner. They're like, come here, get close,

690
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: get close. Somebody gets closer, like get back, stay away,

691
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: and they pinball back and forth between these anxious and

692
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: avoiding sides to them. And of course that's really confusing

693
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: to be on the receiving end of, but also it

694
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: kind of is representative of this emotional storm they're going

695
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: through internally first and the relationship to stuff. And so

696
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: that's our fourth and last.

697
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 2: Time I've been in a come here, go away relationship.

698
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: And you know what makes it even better is when

699
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: they're really hot. It like I don't like this, but

700
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: I like us. I don't know what to do it

701
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: just fuck me, man, it is it is a bad time.

702
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: It is. We could get that the two that you know,

703
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 2: the primal urge part of our brain is very strong.

704
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: It's far stronger sometimes than the I don't know if

705
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: this is good for us kind of situation. We can

706
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: get into all kinds of trouble because I think you know,

707
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: the way you're describing it, why would anybody want to

708
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: be in a relationship The risks are so great and

709
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: the pain is so much there, and why would I

710
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: go near it, you know, you know, forget about it.

711
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: But we are driven by this need, this absolute desire

712
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: for intimacy and closeness and connection and a shared experience

713
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: of life that keeps drawing us back. So figuring out

714
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: our own stuff is vital if we want to even

715
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: have a chance at happiness. You mentioned the you know

716
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: breaking up after when things get real. Availability plays a

717
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: huge role in that. Like I said, I'm fifty one,

718
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: like and I grew up in a part of Australia

719
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: that I mean it wasn't huge, It wasn't tiny, but

720
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: it wasn't huge, And so like who was there to date?

721
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: Was?

722
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: Who was there to date? And so you kind of

723
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: did what you needed to do to figure out, Like

724
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: you couldn't just like just go swipey swipeswipes and just

725
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: have your physical needs met quite quickly without doing any

726
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: of the emotional work. But in this time of just

727
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: abundance of the physicality being able to be satisfied, whether

728
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 2: you know, for rightly or wrongly, just this huge rise

729
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: and transactional kind of you know, physical relationships, how are

730
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: we ever going to get past that sticky bit, the

731
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: sticky part where someone goes, hey, no, I like you,

732
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: but you're really going to have to stop talking over me, okay,

733
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: because someone might just go, I don't want that, and

734
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: then he was too hard.

735
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: Well, I think that that's such an important part that

736
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: you raised. So I think there's two things you said

737
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: that really stood out to me. One is that that

738
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: like hot and coldness can be so addictive, and it's

739
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: actually the addictive components of something called intromitt and reinforcement.

740
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: It's what gamblers get addicted to.

741
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 2: With boobs. Come on, It's like, that's so funny.

742
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: It's true, that is the perfect analogy. But actually when you.

743
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: When you get when.

744
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: You look at a gambler's brain when they when they

745
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: are gambling gamblers, actually research shows us that gambler's actually

746
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: produce dope, more dope of being the motivation neurochemical when

747
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: a gambler thinks about gambling than when they're physically like

748
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: polyvoslam machine or gambling itself. And so it's also the

749
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: addiction of like are they coming back? Are they going

750
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: to show up? And it's so strong. But to your

751
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: point that we live in this culture that also seems

752
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: to almost reward this interimitt and reinforcement or the touch

753
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: and go relationships and listen, like, I'm not going to

754
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: sit here and say like it's bad to date people

755
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: and figure out what you want or what you're looking for.

756
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: There can be sort of an individuation process that happens

757
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: through connecting with different people and learning who you are

758
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: is through some of those experiences. But the reality is

759
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: that you hear the same things over and over again,

760
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 1: which is those end up being superficial relationships, and real

761
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: fulfillment comes from doing the heavy lifting, doing the actual

762
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: work to get to know somebody so much more deeply,

763
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: learn each other's feelings and needs, learn to coregulate work

764
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: through having hard conversations. And the people who you see

765
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: in the research who are actually statistically the most happy

766
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: and fulfilled in relationships and report that people who are

767
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: securely attached, who learn to have the heart conversations, who

768
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 1: know how to set boundaries, who know how to self

769
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: sue but also sue through others, and know how to

770
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: work through their triggers, and ways that allow them to

771
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: regulate both on their own and in the company of

772
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: people around them, and vulnerability. The last thing I'll say

773
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: about this too is that there's a huge body of

774
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: research done on loneliness and it was a study of

775
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: over three hundred and sixty thousand people and what they found,

776
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: first of all, was that chronic loneliness had a significant

777
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: impact on physiological health as smoking a pack of cigarettes

778
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: a day. And secondly, loneliness had nothing to do with

779
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: the quantity of relationships people had, but the quality of

780
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: relationships people had, which was determined by the level of

781
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: vulnerability they felt that they had and that they could

782
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: be safe expressing in connections around them. And so when

783
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: we're really able to have high quality relationships, it actually

784
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: improves our sense of fulfillment in those relationships, but it

785
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: even has impacts on our physical health.

786
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: Just taking a moment away from Tys to let you

787
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: know that Story Club's YouTube channel is up and running.

788
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 2: The stories are coming out every Thursday I put a

789
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: new story up. This is the Stories live comedy storytelling

790
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: show I do in Sydney every month. I've been running

791
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: it for over a year now and so every Thursday

792
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: a brand new story comes up. If you're looking for

793
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: something new to watch, that is I don't know, an

794
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: Australian story that is a true story and it is

795
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: a reflection of Life in Australia. Jump in there right

796
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: there the links in the show notes, as well as

797
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 2: a place where you can get tickets for the next show,

798
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: which is on the fifteenth of February. The tickets are

799
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 2: on sale and the lineup is solidifying as we speak.

800
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: Well back in just a moment with Tys Gibson. I'm

801
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: fascinated with and I'm going to take a slight, slightly

802
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: wide arc to get here. I'm fascinated with the things

803
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: that organized religion have systematized that you know, it comes

804
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 2: with a threat of death, you know, and Satan and

805
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: you know, burning in hell forever. But there's things that

806
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 2: go in there to unlock things in our brain that

807
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, we can achieve through secular means, but they've

808
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: kind of got in there. And I wonder, and this

809
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: is just you know, a question. I wonder if the

810
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: whole idea of like oh no, no, you're not allowed

811
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: to have your genitals touch until this moment is there,

812
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: because if you don't spend time in the courtship phase

813
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: figuring each other out and getting to know each other

814
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: and only rely on the massive release of feel goodness

815
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: that you get when you rub genitals you're never going

816
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 2: to get over the sticky part, the tricky part. I wonder,

817
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: I wonder if the idea of like dating without you know,

818
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: physical intimacy might be a part of forcing the two

819
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: of you to figure things out rather than always relying

820
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 2: on the physicality to do the Marvin Gaye work of

821
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: the sexual hailing.

822
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting topic of conversation. So

823
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: I think there's partly, you know, different parts to it.

824
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: I think that when you look at like religion in

825
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: and of itself, I think originally a lot of religion

826
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: meets multiple needs. So we have basic needs for certainty,

827
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: right which there's a sense of certainty we get through religion.

828
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: There's a sense of uncertainty. We get the novelty, the

829
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: understanding there could be something greater than ourselves to find

830
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: out about it, learn about it. There's a sense of significance,

831
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: which is a basic need which brings us meaning, love

832
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: and connection to a higher power, higher source, growth, contribution.

833
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: These are all our six basic needs, and so religion

834
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: meets a lot of those things. And I could see

835
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: that being probably a big part that a lot of

836
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 1: those things came about from because those six basic needs

837
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: are a fundamental part of our own wiring. However, I

838
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: think if you look back into history, having some sort

839
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: of parameters around things also adds a lot of benefits.

840
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure necessarily that religion was introduced so

841
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: that people would do the heavy lifting before they you know.

842
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: I just found out that people It's like, you know,

843
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 2: some cultures have I don't know, we meet for dinner

844
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: every Friday, and anybody can come. Cultures that have that deliberate,

845
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: cohesive community ritual every week tend to do better, you know,

846
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: And people in those communities do better because they don't

847
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 2: have that loneliness thing. The antidote for loneliness is built

848
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: into the rituals of their culture versus us, which is,

849
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to sit in a room by myself and

850
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: rub a piece of glass hoping to feel something. It's

851
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 2: not not feeling it, but I'm just gonna keep going.

852
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: And honestly, I think that that's the difference between like

853
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: superficial meeting of needs and actual meeting of needs. Like

854
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: we get the you look at your six basic needs.

855
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: You get the maybe significance from the lake on social media,

856
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: or the love and connection because you see your friend's

857
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: picture from across the globe that you haven't talked to

858
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: in a while, And yes, that gives us a short

859
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: term gratification. But what I've always found with people is

860
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: people's quality of fulfillment individually is large turn by the

861
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: depth of value they're getting in regards to their needs

862
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: being met. The more superficial the version, the less of

863
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: them one they're actually feeling, and the more people then

864
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: seem to rely on getting caught in this vicious cycle

865
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: of like, let me go back to the short term gratification,

866
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: because I'm starving for the need, and it's like, when

867
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: you're starving for something, you're going to accept the breadcrumbs

868
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: version of it. And so you'll see this a lot

869
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: in society. And I do think that to your point,

870
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: going back to the idea of religion, like having these

871
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: rituals of connection, having sometimes these parameters around relationships and

872
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: how we do them and view them. You know, I

873
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: think that sometimes there's been immense benefits for that, for

874
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: those particular reasons that you're alluding to.

875
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: As a I met my wife as a cyber person

876
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: that was and I dated for the first time in

877
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: my life as a sober person, you know, in my

878
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: light kind of light light thirties. And if you're dieting

879
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 2: without alcohol, it's a very different story because if you're drinking,

880
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: you can find connection with anybody, but that's not real.

881
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: You know, if boze is involved when you're meeting someone,

882
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: it might, yes, take the edge off, but it then

883
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: puts a false sense of comfortability that isn't really there.

884
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: If you're dating without booze, pretty quickly you can go, oh, yes,

885
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 2: I might be physically attracted to you, but there's actually no, no,

886
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: this isn't for me. Thank you, though you understand like that,

887
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: and I found I found that really really interesting, and

888
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: to be honest, like the first week of meeting Audrey,

889
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: we just talked because we were at work and I

890
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: didn't want to be that guy who's trying to hit

891
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 2: on her at work, so we just talked. There was nothing.

892
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: There was nothing in that. It's not like you know,

893
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: meeting someone out and then you know, figuring out a

894
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 2: way to be in the same room that night and

895
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: then whatever, now it's on. It wasn't that at all.

896
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: It was way way slower, and it might have been

897
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 2: frustrating in some ways, but it certainly allowed us to

898
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: see each other in a different way at first, and

899
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: that was new for me. It was nice.

900
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: I love that. I think that that's such a beautiful point.

901
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes too, when you're drinking or under

902
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: the influence of any kind of substance as a whole,

903
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,959
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you're not in your right mind

904
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: to necessarily be asking the right questions either, or to

905
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: be really advocating for your standards or your needs, or

906
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: to really be looking at the sometimes harder questions like

907
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: do our values align? Are we on the same page

908
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: about you know, our morals, how we want to live

909
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: our lives. And you know, even a few drinks and

910
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, your inhibitions are lowered. Let's throw those

911
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: things by the wayside. Let's just have a good time.

912
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,240
Speaker 1: But truly, I think one of the most important decisions

913
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: we make as a human being is choosing the people

914
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: we surround ourselves with, especially in marriages, especially in long

915
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: term relationships, because the reality is that we are always

916
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: being conditioned by our environment and by the people we

917
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: spend time around. And you know, you've seen this in

918
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: your long term marriage. I'm sure everybody sees this in

919
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: their relationships. You know, I think back to, you know,

920
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: almost eleven years ago when when I met my husband, like,

921
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: he's rubbed off of myself and vice versus so much

922
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: over the past decade plus. We take on so many

923
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: attributes and characteristics of somebody in vice versa, and so

924
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: who we spend our life with you want to be

925
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: making sure is a very intentional decision. And to your point,

926
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: the amount of people that are like, I'm attracted to

927
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: this person, we have a good time, that's it, let's

928
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: go for it and base decisions on those things rather

929
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: than having these meaningful discussions that should be a part

930
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: of that courtship phase are like, so it's far too

931
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: many people that end up with that boat.

932
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you are dating someone and you it like

933
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 2: if you get a surprise on election day when you

934
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: go hang on your voting for who, like you haven't

935
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 2: had good conversations you need to have early on You

936
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: mentioned just kind of what you did offer to talk

937
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: about it. I think it's important that we do in

938
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 2: case people wanted to kind of hear what was the

939
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: idea that we might be able to rewire or change

940
00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: our attachment style in the context of a relationship by

941
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: assume like it's very difficult to do these things outside

942
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: of relationship. How do you even go about that inside

943
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: a relationship? I'm good, do you need the boy of

944
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: the other person.

945
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: There's five pillars. Here's a list for you. But before

946
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: but I want everything. It's not you might be able to.

947
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: It's that like it you one hundred person can. And

948
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: I would tell anybody listening to not think, oh, maybe

949
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: it's a possibility, like it's an actual truth. And you

950
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,959
Speaker 1: know you obviously need commitment and it's going to depend

951
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: on your ability to show up and do these things.

952
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: But it's a very solvable problem. So first things first.

953
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: So there's five major pillars of rewiring, and in order

954
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: to rewire, we have to apply tools to the subconscious

955
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: level of mind. So nobody chooses consciously to be like, oh,

956
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to be anxious or I'm going to be avoidant,

957
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: or I'm going to do these things. These are subconscious

958
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: mechanisms at play, according to past programming that people have experienced.

959
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: So first thing is, first we need to rewire our triggers. Now,

960
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: each attachment cell has specific triggers. I kind of mentioned

961
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: them in passing earlier. I'll just give some specific ones.

962
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: Anxious attachment cells their biggest triggers from an integrated attachment theory,

963
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: like a rewiring point of view or being abandoned alone, excluded,

964
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: dislike rejected, unloved. These are huge triggers, like big things

965
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: that they really fear. We can use that exercise we

966
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, the three steps of finding the wound

967
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: and its opposite, ten pieces of evidence for the new idea,

968
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: and listening back for that twenty one days. That's actually

969
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: firing and wiring new neural pathways in our brain over time.

970
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: Neural pathways are like muscles. If you're working them out,

971
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: your bicep grows right. Same thing. If you're firing and wiring, you're.

972
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: Actually and you know, I might be vague, but I'm

973
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: doing IK. So you have that.

974
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: Piece right where we're trying to fire and wire in

975
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: these new ideas. No I am good enough, No I

976
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: am worthy of love. So anxious attachment cells, those are

977
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: some of their big wounds. Dismissive avoidance are things like

978
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: I'll be trapped, helpless, powerless, not good enough, shameful and

979
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: weak if I open up too much. These are big

980
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: wounds and fears that they tend to carry into relationships.

981
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: We rewire those things too. Fearful avoidants have a little

982
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: bit of both in terms of their wounds. So they

983
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: have the anxious side because they fear that abandonment, but

984
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: they also have the dismissive wounds of fearing being trapped.

985
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: Those are a big wound of being betrayed and constantly

986
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: feeling like they're walking on eggshells. Can't necessarily trust. Again,

987
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: we can apply that three step process that we talked

988
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: about earlier. So that's pillar number one. We rewire our

989
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: wounds and triggers. Rest assured you're not born with them.

990
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: If you stick to twenty one days of repetition and emotion,

991
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: you can change these things. To the point by the

992
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: way that like we put sixty thousand people through this

993
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: process and people who said they addurately, yeah, people who

994
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: said we did end up reporting on them, and people

995
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: who said that they actually stuck to this for twenty

996
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: one days fully did not miss a day. Listen back

997
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: to the recording. People reported a ninety nine point seven

998
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: percent and PS score. So like that's your satisfaction score, right,

999
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 1: did this work for you? And so if you really

1000
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: stick to it, it really works, Okay, so that's pillar

1001
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: number one, Pillar number two. You need to learn what

1002
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: your needs are and how to meet them yourself. It's

1003
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 1: a huge part of self soothing and self regulation. Anxious

1004
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: attachment cells they need a lot of validation, intimacy, closeness, reassurance, certainty, connection,

1005
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: dismissive avoidance, need freedom, autonomy, independence, but they also need appreciation, acknowledgment,

1006
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: and atonement. These are things that each style needs to heal,

1007
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: and we actually start by giving these things to ourselves first. Okay,

1008
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: if we try to get these things from others before

1009
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: learning to give them to ourselves, it's like pouring into

1010
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: a cup that has a hole in the bottom. It's

1011
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: just going to come in and pour back out. And

1012
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: that's why you see, for example, anxious attachment cells, they

1013
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: always need that validation, They always need that reassurance. That

1014
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: seems so chronic because they're usually very self critical and

1015
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: they're not giving any of it to themselves. So what

1016
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: we actually take people through is, hey, twenty one days,

1017
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: let's find your needs. Twenty one days, you're going to

1018
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: practice giving these things to yourself, self validating, maybe you

1019
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: acknowledge your wins every day for twenty one days, certainty.

1020
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: Maybe you create order and structure in your life. You

1021
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: ask for your needs to be met. So we're doing

1022
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: things where we're taking the needs and we're meeting them

1023
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: ourselves for twenty one days. It actually rewires a subconscious

1024
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: mind to then have a baseline of giving to ourselves

1025
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: what we could not get access to in childhood, and

1026
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: in turn, it's profoundly healing. Color number three. We then

1027
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: go into learning how to properly communicate our needs to others.

1028
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: Most people really suck at communication. I'm just being really honest.

1029
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: Hang on what you're not picking out the passive aggressive

1030
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 2: hints that I've been giving by, you know, just kind

1031
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: of not putting that plight. Oh why do you not understand?

1032
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 2: It's been months?

1033
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: Is that the worst?

1034
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: But we don't know any better. We like, we can't

1035
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: sometimes bring ourselves to say the thing, you know, and

1036
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: so we do the thing hoping they're going to get it,

1037
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: but no one's ever going to get it.

1038
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: Futile, just absolutely futile, Like such a waste of time

1039
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: and energy to hope that too. It's so it's tragic.

1040
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: And I would see people and then we come in

1041
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: when I was running my practice, working with people. Back

1042
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: in the day, people wonder when would comes to me,

1043
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: and they say, tice, my husband never listens to me.

1044
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: I've tried communicating. I've tried everything I could. Try to

1045
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: communicate every day. I remember early on, I'd be like, oh, no,

1046
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: like this is going to be a tough case, you know,

1047
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: And then I would start asking them about how they

1048
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: communicate and I would be like, oh, no, wonder it's

1049
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: not that the person's not listening, it's that they have

1050
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: no idea how to communicate. And so there's different tools

1051
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: you can use. And I won't get into like, you know,

1052
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,919
Speaker 1: we spend the whole day, but I'll give two really

1053
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: easy tools that people can start with. Number one, take

1054
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: take a peek at your communication and ask yourself on

1055
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: my negative framing or positive framing. Negative framing is when

1056
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: we tell somebody something that they're not doing. We say

1057
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: you don't care about me, you're not spending enough time

1058
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: with me. Positive frame is saying, hey, I'm feeling disconnected.

1059
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: I would love for us to spend more time together.

1060
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: Why don't we plan a fun date night this weekend.

1061
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: So you're saying what you do want, what you want

1062
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: the outcome to be When we positively frame, we at

1063
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: least three x the chances that somebody is likely to

1064
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: hear us and actually receive what our need is. I

1065
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: always say to people, behind every knee but a head

1066
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: of your criticism, there's a need and you have to

1067
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: figure out what that need is and actually share it

1068
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: with somebody. So positive framing and secondly, get specific. So

1069
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: many people be like I want support and their partner's like, oh,

1070
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 1: let me take out the trash, and really what they

1071
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: needed was encouragement. So you know we need to say, like,

1072
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: what does meeting the need look like? So positive frame,

1073
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: I want to spend more time together that looks like

1074
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: a date night this weekend. I want more consistency in

1075
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: our communication that looks like a ten minute phone call

1076
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 1: before bed. Get specific and positive frame. Just doing those

1077
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: two small things transforms your ability to be seen and

1078
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: heard and actually get your needs bet in a relationship.

1079
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: So that's our third pillar, and we practice it for

1080
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: twenty one days. We need the repetition and emotion of

1081
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,720
Speaker 1: firing and wiring this until it becomes our new set points.

1082
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: So actually checking in and if you don't have something

1083
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: to communicate one day to somebody sit down, go into meditation.

1084
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: Visualize yourself communicating. Go back to old arguments or times

1085
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: where you didn't communicate well, Visualize, Okay I would have

1086
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: said it this way instead to positive frame, I would

1087
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: say it looks like this. And when we train our

1088
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: brains to do that across time, we become proficient communicators.

1089
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: So that's piller number three and piller number four. I

1090
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: know I'm going through this in rapid fire, but these

1091
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: are really important, okay, awesome. Piller number four is we

1092
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: have to regulate our nervous systems. All insecure attachment styles

1093
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: have disregulated nervous systems. We have to move from this

1094
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: fight flight freezer fond aka sympathetic nervous system into parasympathetic,

1095
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: which is rest and digest. And what that generally looks

1096
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: like is we move into rest and digest mode. When

1097
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: we practice doing things like yoga, breath work, meditation, mindfulness activities,

1098
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: we practice actually being present in our body the past

1099
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: and the meditations where we're noticing sensations in our body.

1100
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: As we do these things more regularly, we actually are

1101
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: teaching our body it's safe to be it's safe to

1102
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: be safe, it's safe to be present. With myself and

1103
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: rest and digest signals to our body that we are

1104
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: in a safety mode and practicing doing that. I mean,

1105
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: there's so much we could go into, like just nervous

1106
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: system and improving our window of tolerance. There's a lot

1107
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: we could go into there for quite some time at

1108
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: ai high level. Some really good activities to do there

1109
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: are starting with that one nervous system regulation activity for

1110
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 1: ten minutes a day across at least twenty one day.

1111
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 1: So you're teaching your brain to your brain and body

1112
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: that it's safe to get into this mode. And the

1113
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: very last thing that I'll say in terms of healing

1114
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: at a high level is rewiring our relationship to our boundaries.

1115
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: Anxious attachment styles and fearful avoidance of almost no boundaries.

1116
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: They're like boundaryless and people pleasing Eventually fearful avoid and

1117
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 1: cell they get frustrated and then they set extreme boundaries

1118
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: from a place of anger and frustration, dismissive avoidance. They

1119
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: set extreme boundaries to start with, they actually have to

1120
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: work on making compromises, being more vulnerable coming towards people

1121
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: and as we practice learning what that healthy set of

1122
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: boundaries should look like. Just vulnerability assertiveness, being able to say, hey, no,

1123
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: I don't really want to do that, thank you very much,

1124
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: instead of saying, oh yeah, let's do it, and then

1125
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: later feeling frustrated or resentful. As we retrain ourselves to

1126
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: practice setting small boundaries on a regular basis, once we

1127
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 1: get into a healthy relationship, there start to come full

1128
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: circle and then we're actually protecting ourselves and having our

1129
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: own back. And those are five major pillars when it

1130
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: comes to rewiring our attachment style, and we have to

1131
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: do everything through repetitions. What reaches the subplanche's mind.

1132
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: You are very generously sharing so many like things that

1133
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: we can actually and practically use. And I really hope

1134
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 2: people can hear this stuff and feel hope that if

1135
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 2: they do feel stuck off the related to what you've

1136
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 2: been talking about, that it's not set in stone, and

1137
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 2: that with effort and you know, commitment, that things can

1138
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 2: actually change and feel feel better for you. You mentioned that

1139
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 2: you've been in a relationship, you're married for eleven years now.

1140
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: And I'm always curious in this, you know, in this part,

1141
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: because it's one thing. Sometimes this stuff can be quite

1142
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 2: state dependent, and I wonder if it's the same for yous,

1143
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: Like we may feel like, oh, I'm really good at

1144
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: this stuff with people at work, but here at home,

1145
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 2: like it all just goes out the window and I've

1146
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 2: become a twelve year old again, and I don't know

1147
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: what to do. And I'm wondering if that's true for

1148
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: you as well, Like do you sit there and hire

1149
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: and go like, I know these I know what I

1150
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 2: should and should be doing it, but I still find

1151
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: myself doing this weirdness in your own relationship.

1152
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. To be honest, I know I don't want to

1153
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: sound like because I know that that's a real struggle

1154
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: for so many people, and I value that and understand that.

1155
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: But I will say I personally do this work because

1156
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: I really plugged into it. I was a fearful, avoidant

1157
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: attachment style and relationships growing up for me, all I

1158
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: saw was chaos, and relationships in my young adult life,

1159
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: like in my late teens early twenties, were also chaos.

1160
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: I was like the crazy one. I was, really. I

1161
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: struggled a lot, but I also profoundly plunged into the work,

1162
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 1: and I did it from the perspective of like I'm

1163
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 1: going to retrain my brain. I'm going to retrain my body.

1164
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,439
Speaker 1: I'm going to show up for this, and I will

1165
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: truthfully say that, like I am so fulfilled in my relationship.

1166
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful. It's literally one of the things I'm

1167
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: most grateful for on this planet. If you ask me

1168
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, before I really did the work, do

1169
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: you think that you're going to be in a secure,

1170
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: healthy relationship, I would be like, no, I grew up

1171
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: be in like I'm never getting married, I'm never doing that.

1172
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: And literally, I've just been through a difficult time in

1173
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: my family, family member six and some hard things. And

1174
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: one of the things that I was just so grateful

1175
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: for was my husband. Like he just shows up. He

1176
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: was dismissive, avoidant. I was fearful avoidant. We plugged it

1177
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: and did the work together, and we're very secure together.

1178
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: And it wasn't an overnight process, Like it's not like, Okay,

1179
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: you start and you go, but I would say we

1180
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: really built to that together to the point where I

1181
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, I don't feel like I have those

1182
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: moments anymore where I'm like, what's going on in all

1183
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: went out the window?

1184
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 2: Is there a level of maintenance that goes on? Do

1185
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 2: you you know if things because everyone makes mistakes.

1186
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like listen, we're not like robots. We're not perfect.

1187
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: We still have like conflict at times and stuff like

1188
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: that for sure, but I think we have to practice

1189
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: how to navigate it. Like if we have a conflict,

1190
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: we sit down, we deal with it right away, we

1191
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: hash it out, and we have this little thing that

1192
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: we do. We're like, Okay, what did you feel in

1193
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: the situation? What do you need? Okay, Here's what I felt,

1194
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: Here's what I need. And then we try to actually

1195
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: support each other and meeting those needs. And I went

1196
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: from somebody who was like when I was a teenager,

1197
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: I would like I like punch holes and walls. I

1198
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: was like a crazy kid, to somebody who through really

1199
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: doing the work. Like I haven't been in a conflict

1200
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: in like I don't know, years and years where I

1201
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: felt like I didn't have a handle of my emotions. Yeah,

1202
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: I've been in conflicts, but I not where I'm like,

1203
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like I can't, you know. And so

1204
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: I believe in this. I really think that. And I'm

1205
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: not saying this to sound like I'm my high horse,

1206
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: like I'm a human being. I definitely walk the flause.

1207
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: But I just I do want people to know that

1208
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: if you actually show up, and you actually plug in,

1209
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: and you actually do the work at a subconscious level,

1210
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: you can truly have a really secure, really harmonious relationship.

1211
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: What I kind of I was really interested to talk

1212
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 2: to you today because the work you do it reminds

1213
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 2: me of a conversation I have with my big brother.

1214
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 2: He's a little other two years older than me, and he,

1215
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 2: you know, like big brothers are you call? Let me

1216
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 2: asking what's going on here? And he described to me

1217
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: something a concept that I Heather too, had never ever considered.

1218
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: I'd been with my girlfriend at the time for a

1219
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 2: couple of years, and he said, yeah, you've been together

1220
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 2: for three or four years by that point, because we're

1221
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 2: moving states and I've you know, I was talking to

1222
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: them about it and what's going to happen because I've

1223
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 2: got a job there and she doesn't. And he said, mate,

1224
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: you you know, every relationship we have is is made

1225
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: up of squillions of different versions of that relationship. There

1226
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: was a relationship when you first met, the relationship where

1227
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 2: you first moved in the relationship where you went, Okay,

1228
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: let's do something and you went into Ika for the

1229
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: first time. And then there's the version where one of

1230
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 2: you worked and the other one didn't. And then there's

1231
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 2: a version where you both worked, and then when the

1232
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 2: other one worked and maybe one of you is going

1233
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 2: to UNI. And then there's the version where you're now

1234
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: in a different state. There's a version where kids come

1235
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: along and he which set each relationship is completely different

1236
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: from each other, and the rules that and expectations at

1237
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 2: every stage of that relationship are also different from each other,

1238
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 2: and we can't the pain can happen when we want

1239
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 2: that bit there. Maybe when we were in Bali and

1240
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: we were twenty four and it was just panser hooy

1241
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 2: and everything was fun. We want that bit to always

1242
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 2: be that bit. But here we are now, and what

1243
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: do you mean, No, I'm on school lunches. You were

1244
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 2: on school lunches yesterday. I know I haven't called your

1245
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 2: mum about the thinking. Oh fuck me, I forgot the

1246
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 2: thing we did bend night like. And that's where the

1247
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 2: pain comes because sometimes we're unwilling to move between those

1248
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 2: those stages. And I'm wondering you talk about six stages

1249
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 2: that the dating, the vetting, the power struggle, which we

1250
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 2: kind of alluded to before, like what do you mean

1251
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 2: and you hanging your voting for who? And then the

1252
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 2: rhythm and the stability part of the relationship, and then

1253
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 2: when we you know, I'm guessing when somebody gets down

1254
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 2: on one knee and says, hey, let's go, let's do this,

1255
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 2: and then and just kind of being in that not

1256
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 2: saying holding pattern, but that you know, here we go,

1257
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: We're off to this infinity and beyond together in this

1258
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 2: kind of construct that we've created. Where do people normally

1259
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 2: tend to come on stuck? And what are the things

1260
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 2: we might need to get over that particular bit there?

1261
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: Like for me, I think it's normally when people get

1262
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 2: on stuck is when they get some amount of their

1263
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: self identity gets challenged and no amount of physical attraction

1264
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 2: can get beyond that, and they're so unwilling to let

1265
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: go of how they see or feel about themselves like that.

1266
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 2: Obviously you're not for me, I'm at.

1267
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: And it's such a great question. So we have that

1268
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: dating stage that's usually the first zero to six months

1269
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: of dating somebody until we make this commitment. Then we

1270
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: move into the honeymoon stage that last another year a

1271
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: year and a half. You got the rose colored glasses.

1272
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: Then we move into the power struggle stage, which is

1273
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: statistically where most people break up, and it's when we

1274
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: drop the mask. It's when we're like, hey, this is

1275
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: where I really am. These are my actual fears, these

1276
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: are my actual flaws, these are my needs. We stop

1277
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: people pleasing, we're not on our best behavior, and sometimes

1278
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: that can feel confronting for people. But the right of

1279
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: passage to get out of the power struggle stage and

1280
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: move into that stability or rhythm stage, move into the

1281
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: devotion stage, and then get to that everlasting stage, is

1282
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: that we need to learn to navigate conflict. We need

1283
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: to learn to be vulnerable instead of saying you're not

1284
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: doing this, Hey, I'm needing more of this, or instead

1285
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: of saying I can't believe you did that. Hey I

1286
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: don't think I told you this before. But when that happens,

1287
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: sometimes that hurts. And if we can be vulnerable, if

1288
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: we can start opening up and talking through things in

1289
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 1: healthy ways, if we can learn to communicate our needs

1290
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: and meet them for each other, and if we can

1291
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: also have a little bit of grace that our partner

1292
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: is not the character in our story, you know, so

1293
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: often we're like, they should behaving this way all the

1294
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: time because I've decided that, And it's like, well, actually,

1295
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: there are a human being just like you are, and

1296
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: we're going to be imperfect sometimes. And so when we

1297
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: can be accepting and flexible and practice that, those are

1298
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: the key ingredients that move us out of the power

1299
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: struggle stage. And then we get into the future stages,

1300
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: which are very much about can we keep the spark

1301
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: alive by having good habits? Can we make sure that

1302
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: we're devoting to the relationship by devoting to healthy habits,

1303
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: Like one thing I believe in so much to your

1304
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: point a moment ago, like it was fun to be

1305
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: in Bali at twenty four, but now, hey, it's all

1306
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: this time later and things have changed. You need to

1307
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: keep getting to know your partner, like you need to

1308
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: have a weekly check in where you're checking in height,

1309
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: how are we feeling our needs met in this relationship.

1310
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: It can be a high level conversation. Ideally, I tell

1311
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: people have a weekly date night, so where you're asking

1312
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: meaningful questions. Keep dating your partner, because your version of

1313
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: your partner ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago,

1314
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: it's going to be a very different person decades later.

1315
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,479
Speaker 1: And we need to keep asking meaningful questions, talking about

1316
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: our needs. And when we do those things, we stabilize

1317
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: the relationship. And when we go through we're changing together,

1318
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: and so we're going together instead of growing apart. And

1319
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: those are some of those really crucial ingredients to navigating

1320
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: relationships in the long haul, but also making them last

1321
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: in a fulfilling way, not just making them last because

1322
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: we're trying to white knuckles through or stick it out.

1323
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 2: Would it be fair to say that as the relationship

1324
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: changes and challenges that show up in a relationship appear,

1325
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 2: that the power struggle part may arrive again, for example,

1326
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 2: when kids come along, or someone changes jobs, or you

1327
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 2: move house, and the patterns that we had come to

1328
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 2: rely on, that kind of you know, the rhythm mode

1329
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 2: that we talked about, it no longer replies because now

1330
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 2: there's an extra kid, or my shift to now take

1331
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 2: me working at night, and then that power struggle might

1332
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 2: show up again.

1333
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: The thing that relegates us back is if we go

1334
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: through it an identity crisis. So if we're ever in

1335
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: a position, for example, where we've learned to navigate conflicts together,

1336
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: we've learned to hash things that were in a really

1337
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: good place. But then all of a sudden, you know,

1338
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: there's a really difficult situation where our partner knew us

1339
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,959
Speaker 1: as one version of ourselves with certain needs and learn

1340
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: to navigate that aspect of self and take us into

1341
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: consideration with those needs. But then we go through such

1342
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: a fundamental shift. Sometimes it's for a painful reason. Sometimes

1343
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: it's through loss or grief. We can go through those struggles.

1344
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: Or sometimes it's for beautiful reasons, like we just had

1345
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: twins and we're not sleeping and it's a beautiful gift,

1346
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: but it's causing us to change as individuals. You know,

1347
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: when we go through those things, sometimes we have to

1348
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: go through this season of relearning. What do we need

1349
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: to give to each other now? How do we need

1350
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: to communicate differently? Are the structures that we've developed in

1351
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: our relationship in need of change? And so having those

1352
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: conversations and being able to continuously speak of our needs,

1353
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 1: be vulnerable, open about those things allow us to then

1354
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: shift through those things more easily. It's when we never

1355
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 1: learned how to talk about needs, how to talk about boundaries,

1356
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: how to be vulnerable, to begin with that, we get

1357
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: really stuck in the power struggle stage, and then those

1358
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: hard external things can break us. But if we learn

1359
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: to work through things initially and we know how to

1360
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: communicate and navigate conflict, and then we go through a

1361
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: hard thing, it will be a hard thing, but usually

1362
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 1: we're just going to have to talk it out again,

1363
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: hash it out in a new way, make new structures,

1364
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: make new systems for ourselves, and so we'll be able

1365
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: to keep moving through through the relationship in a healthy way.

1366
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: I don't want to take advantage of the situation that

1367
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 2: I have when having your ear and just like picking

1368
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 2: your brain, but I will let you go. But I

1369
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,439
Speaker 2: do have one one thing because you did. You've mentioned

1370
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 2: it a few times. As someone who's worked with you

1371
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 2: know in clinical practice, you've done You've studied a lot

1372
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: of modalities. You're across a lot of different ways of

1373
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 2: doing things. There is there's more than just cognitive behavioral therapy.

1374
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 2: It's well CBT, don't google CBT, that's not what you'll find.

1375
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 2: But you you've worked because a lot of different modalities

1376
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 2: with I'm assuming one hundred different thousands of couples. When

1377
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 2: it comes to navigating conflict, what is the thing that

1378
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 2: you wish people could know about, you know, the best

1379
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 2: best chance you could give each other.

1380
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: Here's a really simple, easy framework for people to keep

1381
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: a mental checklist up. I think of it this way.

1382
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 1: You used to teach clients this feeling need feeling need.

1383
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: So when people are arguing, people think they're arguing about

1384
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: being right and wrong, but they're actually not. It's people

1385
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: could really care less. At the end of the people

1386
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: are actually arguing about feeling seen and hard and understood

1387
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: by their partners. And so people think that by being

1388
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: right that then their point is heard and understood. But

1389
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: we can actually get out of this right and wrong

1390
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:16,640
Speaker 1: construct and go into feelings validation and need strategization. So

1391
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: what this looks like is, let's say you have two

1392
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: people arguing. What I get people to do is each

1393
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: person we start by just saying, hey, I see what

1394
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: you are feeling. So you might say to your partner,

1395
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 1: like let's say, for example, that your partner is hurt

1396
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: that you forgot about something that was important to them. Okay,

1397
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 1: maybe it was, you know, to drop something off at

1398
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: the post office and it had to be mailed. It

1399
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: was really important, and maybe they felt hurt like that

1400
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: was important to me. How could you miss that? Well,

1401
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: you would start the person who made the mistake would

1402
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: go to the person who was hurt and say, hey,

1403
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: I see why that's hurtful. Then I might feel like

1404
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 1: that way too if I were you. So we're validating

1405
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: the feeling. Okay. Then we get the person who did

1406
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: the hurting or made the mistake to say, here's what

1407
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: I need here, or what do you need to feel better?

1408
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: And when their partner can say, Oh, I need to

1409
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: know that you're going to be mindful in the future,

1410
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: or I need to know that you actually care about me.

1411
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: I'm scared of because you forgot that you're not caring

1412
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: about me. I need reassurance. When that person can give

1413
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: to the need, what would help the partner feel reconciled.

1414
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 1: Somebody actually feels resolved, So validate their feelings, ask what

1415
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: their needs are, make a commitment to show up for

1416
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: that need. That's step one feeling need of partner one.

1417
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: Then we flip it around. Whenever there's a conflict that

1418
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: both people feel a certain way about something and both

1419
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: people need something. So let's say that when old pretend

1420
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: it was you and your wife and you forgot the

1421
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: thing at the post office, and your wife became critical.

1422
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 1: She was not she raised her voice. You know, for you,

1423
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: you might have made the mistake by forgetting the thing first,

1424
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: and so you'll give to her. Hey, I see why

1425
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: that's hurtful. I'll be more mindful in the future, and

1426
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:51,919
Speaker 1: I do care. Of course, I give you the reassurance

1427
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: I meet your need. Then we flip it over, and

1428
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: you also are going to feel a certain way by

1429
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: the way she treated you in that moment. So we're

1430
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: going to get you to say what you were feeling. Hey,

1431
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I also didn't really love the

1432
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: way that that landed. When when you raise your voice,

1433
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: that didn't feel good for me, And I need for

1434
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: you to come to me and communicate more vulnerably next

1435
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: time instead of through anger or frustration. And when your

1436
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: wife in turn is like, yeah, you know what, I

1437
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: see that me raising my voice wasn't productive. I hear

1438
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: that that probably didn't feel good for you, and I'll

1439
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 1: be mindful and I'll commit to working on that in

1440
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: the future. Both people feel resolved. So ultimately our framework

1441
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 1: and this is there's lots of frameworks, but one really

1442
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: good place to start is did both people get their

1443
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 1: feelings hurt and validated. Did both people express a need?

1444
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: And are we brainstorming together how to show up for

1445
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: one another? And in doing that we get really a

1446
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: really good batting average of actual conflict resolution.

1447
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: To us, the work you're doing is not it's very

1448
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 2: successful because you're able to really help people. Nobody wants

1449
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 2: to be in an argument forever, and lobody wants to

1450
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 2: have a feeling that they just pisce off their partner

1451
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 2: boy existing. So the work you're doing really gives a

1452
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 2: lot of language to people. And I'm sure you know

1453
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 2: it's clearly very successful and rightly so because you've put

1454
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 2: a lot of effort into it. Thank you so much

1455
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: for taking the time to share this stuff with us today.

1456
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,799
Speaker 2: I think you've really helped a bunch of people today.

1457
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: Thank you, heges.

1458
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm grateful to

1459
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: be here and really enjoyed this conversation.

1460
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: That was Tys Gibson. Isn't she something? Her two books

1461
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 2: are called Learning Love and Attachment Theory. Just find her

1462
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 2: online wherever you find things online. T H A. I. S.

1463
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 2: Gibson Gibs And she's an extraordinary, lovely lady and yeah,

1464
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 2: she's got number one. She's got a lot of lists,

1465
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,879
Speaker 2: a lot of steps. I like that, she's very practical.

1466
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 2: I like that, a lot of takeaways. It's good stuff.

1467
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for being a part of the show. If you

1468
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 2: need a last minute gift for somebody, I may suggest

1469
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 2: So What Now What? Which you can buy in any

1470
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Speaker 2: good bookshop and also through the Lincoln My show Notes

1471
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 2: where you can also see the story Club YouTube channel

1472
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: with all the fabulous stories there and as well get

1473
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 2: a ticket for the new show which is in the

1474
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 2: fifteenth of February. Thank you so much for listening. I've

1475
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 2: seen in a couple of days.