WEBVTT - Episode 10: Post-Mortem

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<v Speaker 1>Before we begin. This podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a production by The Australian and our subscribers

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<v Speaker 1>Here episodes first and get full access to photos, video,

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<v Speaker 1>news stories and features plus all Australia's best journalism twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four to seven. Join us at Gangstersghost dot com dot

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<v Speaker 1>a US.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it. So my understanding it was a I may

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<v Speaker 2>be wrong. Was around here?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes? Okay?

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<v Speaker 4>So if he died right here, where's the ambush points

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<v Speaker 4>are clearly these two side streets and possibly coming out

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<v Speaker 4>behind him from that lane that's the only lane.

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<v Speaker 3>Then you'd reckon. They'd want to be closer because he

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<v Speaker 3>would hear them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, fanguns.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, thirty eight three, So the three of them, so

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<v Speaker 3>the vera close dn't The first two were in the back,

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<v Speaker 3>dropped in and then they came and pumped another sixty Louis.

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<v Speaker 2>Park Chapel Street, Marrickville at the T junction with Illawarra Road.

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<v Speaker 2>Here in this now desirable inner western Sydney suburb is

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<v Speaker 2>the once notorious Henson Park Hotel on one corner and

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<v Speaker 2>a former mixed business in an old terrace on the other.

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<v Speaker 2>In the spring of nineteen seventy four. The pub was

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<v Speaker 2>a favorite watering hole for crooks, and the shop was

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<v Speaker 2>a Greek delicatessen run by the Poulos family. I'm here

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<v Speaker 2>almost fifty years to the day with my podcast co

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<v Speaker 2>pilot Kelly Slater, Reagan, and my dearest friend, the cartoon

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<v Speaker 2>and true crime officionado John Shakespeare, who passed away recently

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<v Speaker 2>from cancer. Johnny was so passionate about this podcast that

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<v Speaker 2>he desperately wanted to join us in Marrickville when we

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<v Speaker 2>tried to recreate Reagan's violent and bloody murder on that

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<v Speaker 2>distant sunday, right and one was right next to the head,

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<v Speaker 2>right three inches from the head.

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<v Speaker 5>Tom a day.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it September, so it would have been dusk, this

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<v Speaker 2>would have been here, or this would have been here.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a metal shop before it became a cafe.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just wondering if there wasn't a cockatoo or a

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<v Speaker 2>lookout at the pub.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>You can look straight out onto the delicatessen.

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<v Speaker 4>But how did I communicate that then to the shooters mobiles?

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<v Speaker 2>No pages. Someone had to have had an eye on

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<v Speaker 2>him absolute on that quiet Sunday evening, September twenty two,

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<v Speaker 2>as the sun sat close to six thirty pm, Sydney's

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<v Speaker 2>most dangerous gangster, Stuart John Reagan, was supposedly dropped off

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<v Speaker 2>nearby by his girlfriend Helen Scott Huey for a casual

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<v Speaker 2>meeting with a person or persons unknown. Reagan sauntered down

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<v Speaker 2>Chapel Street, with its handful of terrace houses and their

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<v Speaker 2>small gardens on one side and light industrial factories on

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<v Speaker 2>the other. He may have seen the flickering blue of

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<v Speaker 2>televisions in some of the front rooms of those houses.

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<v Speaker 2>Any sounds of bonamie from the Henson Park Hotel would

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<v Speaker 2>have faded the further he moved down the street towards

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<v Speaker 2>the Marrickville Public School on Cholder Lane. Suddenly the darkening

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<v Speaker 2>street was lit up with bursts of gunfire.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just a big, horrible set up that appears. No

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<v Speaker 2>buller proofessed, no weapons, no bodyguard.

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<v Speaker 3>No hypervigilant person, hypervigilant it so normally it'd be normally

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<v Speaker 3>travel with a minimum of two bodyguards, best and.

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<v Speaker 4>Gun And we've been reading anecdotes of people actively hunting

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<v Speaker 4>him to kill him, yes, and not being able to

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<v Speaker 4>do it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was that on the ball. Within ten to twenty

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<v Speaker 2>minutes of arriving in Marrickville, Reagan was faced down on

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<v Speaker 2>the road, struck by eight bullets from the guns of

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<v Speaker 2>at least three shooters. Once he was down, someone stepped

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<v Speaker 2>up to the body, placed the thirty eight caliber handgun

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<v Speaker 2>close to Reagan's skull and fired twice just to make sure.

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<v Speaker 2>In the end, it came down to three unknown hitmen

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<v Speaker 2>to make Nano the magician himself disappear for good.

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<v Speaker 3>They've gone boom boom to drop him on the ground,

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<v Speaker 3>so then they've got to come up on him.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah and do the headshot boom boom boom boom boom boom,

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<v Speaker 6>So they're still going to be there.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm journalist Matthew Condon and this is The Gangster's Ghost,

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast from The Australian. In this investigation, we uncover

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<v Speaker 2>previously unreported facts about the short lived criminal career of

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<v Speaker 2>Stuart John Reagan, speak to his family, friends and businesses

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<v Speaker 2>who go on the record for the first time, link

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<v Speaker 2>him to one of the most notorious mass murders in

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<v Speaker 2>Australian history, and uncover secret audio recordings that will bring

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<v Speaker 2>the ghost of Johnny Reagan Back to Life. This podcast

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<v Speaker 2>started out as a clinical look at one of Australia's

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<v Speaker 2>most reviled gangsters, but when the Reagan family came on board,

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<v Speaker 2>the project took on another dimension and begged the question

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<v Speaker 2>how does a family cope with the generational stain of

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<v Speaker 2>a murderer whose death was celebrated by criminals and police alike.

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<v Speaker 2>By mid nineteen seventy four, Reagan is already public enemy

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<v Speaker 2>number one with both the underworld and police, after the

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<v Speaker 2>disappearance and presumed murder of his girlfriend Toddler son Carlos

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Huey. Then in August, one of Reagan's close associates

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<v Speaker 2>and his alleged partner in organizing the Whiskey Go Go

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<v Speaker 2>nightclub mass murder in Brisbane the previous year, the criminal

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<v Speaker 2>Ratty Clark is shot dead in a pub in Sydney's

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<v Speaker 2>in a West. Just a few weeks later, Reagan, after

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<v Speaker 2>a pleasant September afternoon picnic with his young daughter Helen,

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<v Speaker 2>heads off to a pre arranged mystery meeting in Marrickville.

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<v Speaker 2>He arrives in Chapel Street relaxed and unarmed. This most

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<v Speaker 2>alert and paranoid of gangsters didn't see the trap. He

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<v Speaker 2>walked straight into why they're in the Bible their rife

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<v Speaker 2>throughout the works of Shakespeare. Two universal themes that will

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<v Speaker 2>forever run through human history, betrayal and revenge. This is

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<v Speaker 2>episode ten post mortem. Let's go back just a few

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<v Speaker 2>weeks before that Bloody's slaying in Marrickville. Let's head across

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<v Speaker 2>to the neighboring suburb of Petersham, less than two kilometers away,

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<v Speaker 2>to a busy little pub late on a Friday night

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<v Speaker 2>in August nineteen seventy four, just a month before the

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<v Speaker 2>blood bath in Chapel Street. The pub used to be

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<v Speaker 2>called the Newington Inn Hotel, and it was the watering

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<v Speaker 2>hole one of Reagan's closest associates, John Edward Ratty Clark

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<v Speaker 2>Ratty lived within walking or staggering distance in Stanmore Road,

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<v Speaker 2>and what happened to him in the Newington Inn would

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<v Speaker 2>prove to be a critical piece in the puzzle of

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<v Speaker 2>his mate Johnny Reagan's murder. Kelly Slater. Reagan and I

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<v Speaker 2>headed for the old pub one recent quiet Sunday. It

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<v Speaker 2>used to advertise rashers on posters out the front and

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<v Speaker 2>had a Neonlitz sign to its beer garden. Today it

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<v Speaker 2>is a family friendly hotel called Public House. Where are

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<v Speaker 2>we heading now? It's a Sunday in Sydney.

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<v Speaker 4>We're driving through the backstreets of Petersham. We're going to

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<v Speaker 4>the Newington Inn, which used to be the Petersham Inn.

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<v Speaker 4>I think where Ratty Clark was assassinated in August nineteen

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<v Speaker 4>seventy four was only a month or so before Reagan

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<v Speaker 4>was oh gunned down, because it had to be after.

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<v Speaker 4>So what do we know about Ratty?

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<v Speaker 2>At around ten thirty five pm on Friday, August twenty three,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy four, Ratty Clark was drinking with friends after

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<v Speaker 2>hours in the lounge bar of the Newington Inn. This

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<v Speaker 2>was Ratty's local, so he was well acquainted with the licensee,

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<v Speaker 2>Philip Bernie. Ratty, you'll remember, was one of Reagan's closest sidekicks.

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<v Speaker 2>He was even named by private investigator Walter Cromwell as

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<v Speaker 2>one of the architects, along with Reagan, of the Whiskey

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<v Speaker 2>Ego Go nightclub fire bombing in Brisbane in nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>three that killed fifteen people on this Friday night, Ratty

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<v Speaker 2>Bernie and five other people were enjoying a drink when

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<v Speaker 2>a bullet smashed through one of the pub windows and

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<v Speaker 2>struck Ratty cleanly in the back of the head. This

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<v Speaker 2>was no random pot shot. The bullet hit its target

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<v Speaker 2>even after penetrating glass. Ratty was probably dead before he

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<v Speaker 2>hit the carpet. His assassin escaped through the pub's rear

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<v Speaker 2>beer garden and car park and into the night. We're

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<v Speaker 2>just doing some research into a murder at this pub.

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<v Speaker 2>At this nine seventy four, Kelly and I were hardly

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<v Speaker 2>surprised when the ghost of Johnny Reagan struck once again

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<v Speaker 2>inside the old Newington Inn. His specter had been pursuing

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<v Speaker 2>us for years during our research, throwing us ridiculous coincidences

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<v Speaker 2>and strokes of luck. We even believed he had a

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<v Speaker 2>hand in Kelly's latest success in securing after a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of years documents from her second cousins in quest. Most

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<v Speaker 2>of the staff here weren't even born when Ratty and

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<v Speaker 2>shotgun Johnny Proud Sydney and were murdered within four weeks

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<v Speaker 2>of each other. Then the face of one of the

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<v Speaker 2>bar attendants, on learning of our historic mission, went from

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<v Speaker 2>confusion to shock. Into the beer gardens. Yes, do you

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<v Speaker 2>know anything about that?

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<v Speaker 7>Just had two guys come in yesterday telling me about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, and I've never.

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<v Speaker 7>Heard anything about it. I know about it. They were

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<v Speaker 7>they said, he said it happened at sixty seventy four. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>said years, Well, that was when I was born, when

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<v Speaker 7>you drop in or the Newton I think he said

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<v Speaker 7>it was, And he said he knew the guy.

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<v Speaker 2>They really all were they regulars or drop ins. I've

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<v Speaker 2>never seen them before. We're really chiny, unbelievable. In the

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<v Speaker 2>wake of Ratty's murder, the immediate word on the street

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<v Speaker 2>was that he'd been shot dead by his mate Reagan.

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<v Speaker 2>That rumor was perpetuated by, among others, killer Neddie Smith,

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan's old mate from the Gosford Home for Boys. Johnny

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan had for a few months now been the most

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<v Speaker 2>hated gangster, not just in Sydney but probably Australia for

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<v Speaker 2>supposedly murdering little Carlos Scott Huey back in May. The

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<v Speaker 2>whisper in the wake of Ratty's killing was that Ratty

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<v Speaker 2>had been the only one game enough to call Reagan

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<v Speaker 2>a child killer to his face, and had paid the

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<v Speaker 2>ultimate price in the arc of Reagan's criminal career, and

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<v Speaker 2>now with historical hindsight, the murders of Carlos and Clark,

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<v Speaker 2>within the space of a few months and at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of Reagan's life didn't quite fit. Both killings, according

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<v Speaker 2>to the Gossip, had as their motive a sudden lethal

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<v Speaker 2>irruption of Reagan's fabled temper. The child annoyed him dead,

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<v Speaker 2>his mate Ratty sledged him as a child killer. Dead

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<v Speaker 2>in the past, one of Reagan's victims may have been

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<v Speaker 2>a potential witness who might testify against him in court,

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<v Speaker 2>or a heavy who had muscled in on his criminal territory,

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<v Speaker 2>or someone who had dared to steal from him. But

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<v Speaker 2>Carlos and Ratty didn't fit the Reagan pattern. These so

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<v Speaker 2>everybody said or impulsive killings that spoke directly to Reagan

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<v Speaker 2>as a psychopath. These spoke to the inner tiger, out

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<v Speaker 2>of control and unpredictable. But would he really blow the

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<v Speaker 2>brains out of a close mate for care calling him

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<v Speaker 2>a name? I discussed this with Kelly.

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<v Speaker 3>Well Mark says ready Jack Clark was good.

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<v Speaker 4>Friends with John yep as in they were business associates,

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<v Speaker 4>weren't they correct?

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<v Speaker 3>And no foreseeable reason why he would kill him.

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<v Speaker 2>So this guy was drinking after closing.

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<v Speaker 4>This guy was drinking there after closing in the beer garden. Yes,

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<v Speaker 4>And I think it was a headshot, was it not.

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<v Speaker 4>So you've got to wonder. I mean, they blamed Reagan

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<v Speaker 4>for killing him, yep, even though he was Reagan's business associate.

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<v Speaker 4>But you've got to wonder why Clark was murdered when

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<v Speaker 4>he was good and for what reason. So, I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>we've battered this back and forth forever, but we think

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<v Speaker 4>it may stem all the way back to the whiskey

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<v Speaker 4>of Go Go fire bombing in nineteen seventy three.

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<v Speaker 2>Police told the press that Clark's murder was a contract killing.

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<v Speaker 8>The killer is believed to have hidden in the garden

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<v Speaker 8>bar area of the Newington Inn hotel. He fired one shot,

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<v Speaker 8>Clark died before he could say anything. The killer is

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<v Speaker 8>believed to have run out through the hotel's back gate

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<v Speaker 8>and across a car park. A large team of detectives

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<v Speaker 8>from the cib reinforced Petersham detectives investigating the murder.

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<v Speaker 2>In the meantime, Reagan had a premonition that his own

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<v Speaker 2>number was almost up half a dozen streets away from

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<v Speaker 2>Royal Randwick Racecourse. The Colonel Reagan's mother, Claire, lived with

0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.080
<v Speaker 2>her sister Thelma in a neat three bedroom Federation red

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<v Speaker 2>brick and tile roofed house in Duke Street, Kensington. They'd

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<v Speaker 2>moved out of the Liverpool Street Terrace some years earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>On a clear day and if the wind was right,

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<v Speaker 2>the Colonel, an absolutely mad punter, may have relished the

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<v Speaker 2>perfume of fresh horse manure from the nearby racetrack. Reagan

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<v Speaker 2>used Duke Street as another one of his bases. He

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<v Speaker 2>kept sets of clothes there, he secretly recorded his phone calls.

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<v Speaker 2>There he went about his criminal enterprises with the full

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<v Speaker 2>knowledge of his mother. He also grew attached to his neighbor,

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:33.679
<v Speaker 2>old Missus Goodwin. There are numerous stories, apocryphal or otherwise,

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of his affection for her, of seeing her in the city,

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.800
<v Speaker 2>waiting for public transport in the rain, and driving her

0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 2>back to Duke Street. He was close enough to her

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.960
<v Speaker 2>also to share his fears in the final weeks of

0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 2>his life. Kelly and I had been meaning to visit

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Missus Goodwin for years, but by the time we got

0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.400
<v Speaker 2>around to it, she'd moved out, and the carpenters had

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 2>moved in, swarming her property like ants. The gentrification of

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Kensington was well and truly underway, so.

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 4>Kel we finally made it to fifty six Duke Street,

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 4>standing in front of the house right now. All that

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.959
<v Speaker 4>power tool noise you can hear in the background, unfortunately,

0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 4>is a renovation of the house next door at number

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.919
<v Speaker 4>fifty four Duke Street. Now, we came today hoping beyond

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.360
<v Speaker 4>hope that the former neighbor of the Reagans, Missus Goodwin,

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.360
<v Speaker 4>would still be there. We knew she would be elderly,

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.080
<v Speaker 4>but she's critical in that she spoke to Johnny Reagan.

0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:44.240
<v Speaker 4>What did she tell him?

0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 3>So john was walking down and she said, oh, John,

0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 3>is everything okay? Don't look very well? And he said,

0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 3>Missus Goodwin, I'm not long of this earth.

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not long of this earth. So he knew something

0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 2>was up. He was pre emptying his own death in

0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.479
<v Speaker 2>a weird way. So we come to the house of

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Missus Goodwin, and of course she's not here. That's what

0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:05.439
<v Speaker 2>we dreaded.

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 4>She'd either passed away or moved on, and she's moved on,

0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.200
<v Speaker 4>But there is an indication from the builder she.

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.040
<v Speaker 2>May still be alive. And of this Earth, So yet

0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 2>another Reagan goat track to go down a rabbit hole,

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Away we Go. His de facto partner, marg also sent

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:33.440
<v Speaker 2>something amiss in Reagan's final weeks. She remembered him manically

0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:38.000
<v Speaker 2>writing letters on behalf of his Independent Action Group for

0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 2>a Better Police Force, his anti police corruption and anti

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.480
<v Speaker 2>prostitution lobby group that was seen as not just a

0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.879
<v Speaker 2>joke by detectives and Reagan's fellow criminals, but as an

0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:56.200
<v Speaker 2>almost comical effort by Reagan to keep authorities at arm's length.

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.320
<v Speaker 9>I think his love was short lived from the knowledge

0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.840
<v Speaker 9>that I knew that with the letters, he would be

0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 9>writing to the police, and he was really stirring up

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.600
<v Speaker 9>a lot of people. Whether it was the only police,

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.639
<v Speaker 9>whether it was criminals, whether it was I don't know.

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.160
<v Speaker 9>He was stirring people up. And it's definitely yeah.

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.520
<v Speaker 2>But you never had a notion that if he keeps

0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.080
<v Speaker 2>this up, then he's going to die at the end

0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 2>of a gun.

0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.280
<v Speaker 9>No, didn't he mend him my mind. I thought he

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.280
<v Speaker 9>would just keep going, you.

0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Know, because he was a forceful personality.

0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 9>He had a great personality. He was just so likable,

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:37.120
<v Speaker 9>it's unbelievable.

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Do you think he thought he was indestructible.

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 9>I think that he told his mother's neighbor that he

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 9>wouldn't be around for much longer, and that was a

0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 9>couple of weeks or a few days. He told missus Goodwin.

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.879
<v Speaker 9>You know, Missus Goodwin, I don't think I'm going to

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 9>be around much longer. He did emphasize that to her.

0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.120
<v Speaker 9>They'd known each other for ye So that's the only

0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.440
<v Speaker 9>indication that we know that he made that he may

0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 9>not be an anthhalone.

0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Reagan's last day was a snapshot of how complicated his

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 2>life had become. It showed how his family existence on

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 2>the surface was messily intersecting with his parallel gangster universe.

0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:31.879
<v Speaker 2>The two worlds were colliding. Detective Sergeant Donald Worsley of

0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.679
<v Speaker 2>the Special Crime Squad later delivered to the coroner the

0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 2>narrative of Reagan's last day Sunday, September twenty two, nineteen

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:46.160
<v Speaker 2>seventy four. The early hours of Sunday morning remained confusing.

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Mark in her statement to police two days after Reagan

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:53.159
<v Speaker 2>was murdered, says Reagan came to her place on the

0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Saturday night, then in the early hours of Sunday, She said,

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.399
<v Speaker 2>he asked her to ring Hell Scott Huey at the

0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Goldban Club and tell her to meet him at Marg's

0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:09.960
<v Speaker 2>place after she finished work. Mark says she never said

0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.400
<v Speaker 2>the words attributed to her in her statement and wasn't

0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 2>even sure she had a phone at the time. She

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:20.040
<v Speaker 2>said Reagan never asked her to ring the Golden Club.

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Woolseley went on in his narrative to the coroner.

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.080
<v Speaker 10>About five am on the twenty second of September nineteen

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.080
<v Speaker 10>seventy four, some hours after retiring to bed, Reagan was

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.840
<v Speaker 10>joined at these premises by Helen Scott Huey, a close

0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.880
<v Speaker 10>friend of the deceased. Both remained in bed together at

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.840
<v Speaker 10>that address until about eleven am, when they arose and

0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 10>partook of a cup of coffee. It was about this

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.439
<v Speaker 10>time that the deceased and Helen Scott Huey decided they

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.080
<v Speaker 10>would take the deceased's daughter, Helen to Watson's Bay Beach.

0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.679
<v Speaker 2>On the way to Watson's Bay, Worsley concluded Reagan, his daughter, Helen,

0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.560
<v Speaker 2>then three, and Scott Huey stopped in at the Colonel's

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.959
<v Speaker 2>place in Duke Street, Kensington, where Reagan changed into his

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:06.920
<v Speaker 2>swimming trunks.

0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.920
<v Speaker 10>On arrival, at Watson's Bay. The deceased Scott Huey and

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.439
<v Speaker 10>the young girl Helen sat on the grass near Dunbar House,

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.160
<v Speaker 10>where they had a meal. They remained in the Watson's

0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:22.480
<v Speaker 10>Bay area until about three point thirty pm.

0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Incredibly, Helen Reagan still remembers that afternoon.

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.080
<v Speaker 11>Going back to that day, I mean, my father had

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 11>the from what I was told, he woul always take me,

0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 11>cut me around a lot, so I was always with him.

0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:38.640
<v Speaker 12>Then, you know, I.

0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 11>Always remember being on his lap driving the car suitbelt.

0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:47.560
<v Speaker 11>But I remember I had been at Watson's Bay. I

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.840
<v Speaker 11>believe it was in a park at Watsons Bay, and

0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:52.639
<v Speaker 11>I was on swings and having a picnic.

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Mark Reagan says by mid to late afternoon on that Sunday,

0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 2>she went to find her daughter to bring her home.

0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Mark ended up at Scott Huey's flat in Paddington.

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.920
<v Speaker 9>So my arrangements was he had taken her on a picnic.

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:12.639
<v Speaker 9>That was fine, and as an afternoon went on, it

0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:16.880
<v Speaker 9>got later. So I'm there trying to find him. Then

0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:20.280
<v Speaker 9>I knew that Helen's got you, because I knew that

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.120
<v Speaker 9>they were having a relationship. Okay, So I went down

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:27.000
<v Speaker 9>the pathway and I knocked on the door, saying, John,

0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:31.000
<v Speaker 9>please give me Helen back. I'm here. Open the door

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:35.440
<v Speaker 9>and I could hear him, and Helen remembers this. He

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.640
<v Speaker 9>told me to be quiet. He's gone sh So I'm

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 9>giving you ten minutes to bring my daughter back. I'll

0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:44.960
<v Speaker 9>go down to the barrack murders. He did come down

0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 9>within fifteen minutes.

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 2>How did you know that he was in there with Helen,

0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.199
<v Speaker 2>Scott hue and your daughter in that or did you

0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:56.240
<v Speaker 2>just have an educated guest educated guess. Helen remembers the

0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>moment inside Scott Huey's flat.

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 11>And dad and her we're in a bed and I

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 11>was in bed next to it, and my mother turned

0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 11>up really furious, and I remember Mum banging on the windows.

0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:09.400
<v Speaker 9>I know you're in there, and my.

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 11>Father actually telling me to be quiet, like sh be

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:15.400
<v Speaker 11>quiet and go to sleep. But I remember my mother

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 11>being furious.

0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 2>Marg was concerned about little Helen.

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:26.160
<v Speaker 9>I was more angry about him if it was obviously

0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 9>it was having a sexual relationship with her, that he

0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:30.920
<v Speaker 9>would do it in front of my child because it

0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:34.720
<v Speaker 9>was only a small apartment, disgusting. I was angry about

0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:36.240
<v Speaker 9>that that he put her on.

0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:40.640
<v Speaker 2>In that situation, marg shouted at Reagan he had ten

0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 2>minutes to bring the child out. She then waited at

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:48.960
<v Speaker 2>nearby Barrick Motors, Reagan's business headquarters, in her myro own Valiant.

0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:54.880
<v Speaker 9>He's brought Helen Helen Scott virtually wasn't letting and he's

0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 9>brought her and put her in the car. But then

0:25:57.600 --> 0:25:59.360
<v Speaker 9>he said, I want you to say that I want

0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:04.959
<v Speaker 9>you to drive somewhere, and I'm like this, you ain't working,

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 9>And then he's gone into the main part what I

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 9>call hisself is in Barrack Majors. He took the keys

0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 9>out of my ignition too.

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Just to make sure you didn't go anywhere.

0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 9>But I had a second set of keys, and I

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:20.440
<v Speaker 9>was assuming by that time.

0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.159
<v Speaker 2>Tell me it just briefly, had you ever made the

0:26:24.200 --> 0:26:26.639
<v Speaker 2>decision to carry a second set of keys with you?

0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Why did you have it on in the car like

0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:31.560
<v Speaker 2>in the glove box.

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, yeah, it was no particular reason. And in the

0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:39.159
<v Speaker 9>actual fact that I'm really surprised I even thought about it.

0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:43.880
<v Speaker 9>But anyhow, and I remember him saying the main thing

0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 9>that I seen him standing there with his mouth open

0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:48.680
<v Speaker 9>as I drove off, So that was the last time

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:50.240
<v Speaker 9>you ever, the last time I seen John.

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:54.880
<v Speaker 2>In the end, it was left to Helen Scott Huey

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:59.200
<v Speaker 2>to drive Reagan to his meeting in Marrickville. She reminded

0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:02.800
<v Speaker 2>him of the appointment after the tiff with marg This

0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>is what Helen Scott Huey told police.

0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.440
<v Speaker 13>Because he told me earlier that he had a meet

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:10.880
<v Speaker 13>at six o'clock. I said to him, haven't you got

0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 13>to meet someone at six? John then looked at his

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 13>watch and I saw that it was a quarter to six,

0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:17.720
<v Speaker 13>and he said, yes, we have to go. We both

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 13>got into my car and he drove and he took off.

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:22.440
<v Speaker 13>I didn't take too much notice where we were going,

0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 13>but I've got a feeling that we drive down Downing Street,

0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 13>and we passed a swimming pool off Victoria Road at

0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:30.679
<v Speaker 13>Marrickville and into the street near the Henson Park Hotel.

0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.439
<v Speaker 13>We stopped near there he got out of the car.

0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 13>Before he got out of the car, he said he

0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:37.480
<v Speaker 13>was too early, and he now thought it was half

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 13>past six. He had to have the meet. He got

0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:41.720
<v Speaker 13>out of the car, which was parked on the left

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:44.199
<v Speaker 13>hand side of the roadway, and he walked over to

0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:46.840
<v Speaker 13>the other side of the road. I moved into the

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:49.400
<v Speaker 13>driver's seat and I drove off and as I got

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.639
<v Speaker 13>to the corner near the hotel, I looked in the

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:54.600
<v Speaker 13>rear vision mirror and I saw him strolling up towards

0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 13>Illawarra Road. That was the last I saw of him.

0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 2>In his statement, Detective Worsley reiterated.

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 10>As Scott Huey drove away, she looked in the rear

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:10.440
<v Speaker 10>vision mirror and saw the deceased walking towards z Illawarra Road.

0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 2>This small fact of the mirror stood out in both

0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:19.879
<v Speaker 2>Scott Hughey's statement and Worsley's story to the coroner. It

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 2>intrigued both myself and former detective Michael Drury. Why did

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:31.480
<v Speaker 2>both police and the witness include this almost innocuous detail.

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm fascinated how you sort of snagged upon the point

0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:41.560
<v Speaker 2>in the statement where Helen Scott Huey as she was

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:44.840
<v Speaker 2>driving away from the scene, when she dropped him off.

0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:49.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a very clear point in the statement that she

0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:53.440
<v Speaker 2>looked in her rear vision mirror and saw him. I

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:55.640
<v Speaker 2>stopped when I read that because I thought that, a

0:28:55.800 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 2>it's a very unusual observation to make, and secondly, why

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>would you make that observation, the observation points towards the witness,

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:09.800
<v Speaker 2>as in Helen Scott Huey saying I was driving away.

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Let's just reiterate it. I looked in the rear vision

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 2>mirror and saw him, so therefore I must have been

0:29:16.160 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>driving away from the scene because I saw him in

0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>the mirror.

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:24.320
<v Speaker 14>It's adding emphasis to the fact that, as she claims,

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:28.680
<v Speaker 14>she was driving away from the location of where the murder.

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Took place exactly. Other unanswered questions emerge from the statements

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 2>and coronial documents. How was Reagan going to get back

0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:45.640
<v Speaker 2>home after the meeting in Marrickville? Here's Kelly Remember she

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 2>was also a former New South Wales police officer and

0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 2>had that similar sense of logic as Michael Drury.

0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 3>My thing is, where did Helen Scott go when she

0:29:57.000 --> 0:30:00.120
<v Speaker 3>dropped him off? If he's here, how's he going to

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 3>to get back to Sydney without a lift?

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Did he have that arranged that he would be That's

0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:07.720
<v Speaker 2>what I want to know. No one's ever talked about that.

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 3>No, did she hang around? Did she park somewhere and

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:16.560
<v Speaker 3>hang around because he never went he was never going

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:19.920
<v Speaker 3>to catch public transport. If there was and there was

0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 3>Was he going to wring her back? Or was she

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 3>simply waiting for him? Therefore? Did she see? Yeah, like,

0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.080
<v Speaker 3>there's no way he would have come this far from

0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 3>his nest unarmed.

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean no mobile phones. You can't just say I think.

0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 3>We'd have to go to a phone booth or the pub.

0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.160
<v Speaker 3>It makes sense that if Helen drops him off, Helen

0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 3>puts him up, don't yep.

0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:49.240
<v Speaker 2>And here's Michael Drury independently following the same line of thought.

0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 14>Let me ask you this, if I may please, so,

0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:58.960
<v Speaker 14>Miss good Huey takes Reagan to this meeting and the

0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:02.360
<v Speaker 14>police interview her, and she said she didn't know what

0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:07.200
<v Speaker 14>the meeting was about. This is from Worsley's covering statement,

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:11.719
<v Speaker 14>which is like a story narrative. She doesn't know what

0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.720
<v Speaker 14>the meeting's about, and she doesn't know who he was meeting. Yes, okay,

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:19.320
<v Speaker 14>so she takes him to this meeting, which is some

0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:24.600
<v Speaker 14>distance away from where he lives. Okay, Now after the meeting,

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:26.440
<v Speaker 14>what's he going to do? Get an uber home?

0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:26.840
<v Speaker 5>Is he?

0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:30.320
<v Speaker 14>It would be logical for her to wait there for him.

0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:31.800
<v Speaker 2>How would he get home?

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:32.720
<v Speaker 5>Exactly?

0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:35.040
<v Speaker 14>What was he there for? He didn't have a bag

0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.440
<v Speaker 14>with him full of money, or a bag full of drugs,

0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:41.560
<v Speaker 14>or a bag full of guns, etc. She drove him

0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:45.600
<v Speaker 14>to meet someone, and I would suggest it's highly probable

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.720
<v Speaker 14>that she was in the area parked in the car

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 14>waiting for him to take him home after the meeting,

0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 14>which is only logical.

0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Scott Huey told the police that after she dropped Reagan off,

0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:06.000
<v Speaker 2>she went to her mother's house in Bellfield, west of Merrickville.

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Reagan then decided to buy a snack from the Greek

0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:14.800
<v Speaker 2>delicatessen opposite the Henson Park Hotel. Here's Worsley again.

0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:19.400
<v Speaker 10>I have established that shortly after six pm, the deceased

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.640
<v Speaker 10>went to a small mixed business shop. Whilst at the shop,

0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:26.680
<v Speaker 10>the deceased purchased some cabanossi and then left and walked

0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:27.640
<v Speaker 10>into Chapel Street.

0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Kelly and I, tracing Reagan's final steps, stood at the

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:36.360
<v Speaker 2>doorway to the old delicatessen. It's no longer a shop

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>but a converted residence.

0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:49.760
<v Speaker 4>So this is the delicatessen, the Pulos family delicatessen. Hell,

0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:53.640
<v Speaker 4>some old grapevines are still growing out the side.

0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, gorgeous, so that would have been maybe the family

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>saloons on the door and were greeted by an elderly

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Greek lady. Could this possibly be an A Poulos, the

0:33:07.560 --> 0:33:11.640
<v Speaker 2>young woman who served Reagan in those final minutes before

0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:21.920
<v Speaker 2>he was murdered. Could we be that lucky? Hello, Hey,

0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I know how are you. We're hoping you could help us.

0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 4>We're doing some research on the Poulos family who had

0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:34.440
<v Speaker 4>this delicatessen in nineteen in the nineteen seventies.

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Sure, yes, this building before before before it wasn't Anna.

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 2>The Poolosses had moved out decades earlier. But we stood

0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:51.160
<v Speaker 2>on the steps into the old shop and tried to

0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:55.360
<v Speaker 2>take ourselves back to that Sunday evening in September nineteen

0:33:55.400 --> 0:34:00.280
<v Speaker 2>seventy four, and a Pooloss was in her delicatessen when

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Reagan stepped through the door. She said in her statement,

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 2>it was.

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 15>Some time after six pm the same day when I

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:13.160
<v Speaker 15>noticed a man in the shop. My husband served him,

0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:16.520
<v Speaker 15>and I heard this man ask my husband for cabanassi,

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.399
<v Speaker 15>but he called it cabana, and I heard him say

0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 15>to my husband, not too big. I was serving other

0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:25.880
<v Speaker 15>persons at the time, but I remember this man leaving

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:29.440
<v Speaker 15>the shop, This man who purchased the Kabanassi was about

0:34:29.480 --> 0:34:33.799
<v Speaker 15>thirty years old, bare hair and complexion. He may not

0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:35.920
<v Speaker 15>have had a lot of hair on top, but his

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 15>hair was not long. He was wearing I think sports clothes.

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:41.480
<v Speaker 15>I think the top was something like a jumper with

0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:44.920
<v Speaker 15>the zipper. I cannot remember the color, but it was dark.

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:48.160
<v Speaker 15>When he spoke to my husband, his voice sounded rough

0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:50.040
<v Speaker 15>and I would say demanding.

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Shortly after, Reagan walked out with his snack and a

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.719
<v Speaker 2>Pouloss went to the back of the shop and into

0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:58.600
<v Speaker 2>the kitchen where she was cooking.

0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:01.319
<v Speaker 15>I heard what sounded to me like the exhaust of

0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:04.839
<v Speaker 15>a car. There were three or four explosions. They came

0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:09.080
<v Speaker 15>from the direction of Chapel Street, and they sounded very loud.

0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:12.319
<v Speaker 15>With these explosions or shots, I heard a number of

0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:15.520
<v Speaker 15>dogs in the vicinity start to bark. I then went

0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:18.720
<v Speaker 15>into Chapel Street, walked to the lane that runs behind

0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.879
<v Speaker 15>our shop, and I was looking generally to see where

0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:25.040
<v Speaker 15>the noises came from when I heard someone running and

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:26.880
<v Speaker 15>I looked in the lane to my left and I

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:30.239
<v Speaker 15>saw two men running from around the bend in the

0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:31.520
<v Speaker 15>lane towards.

0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Me, and Apulos said the men hopped into a car

0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:38.800
<v Speaker 2>parked in the lane behind her delicatessen and took off.

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:43.680
<v Speaker 2>She described them as both of medium build, one was

0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:47.640
<v Speaker 2>taller than the other. The driver had shielded his face

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:55.000
<v Speaker 2>from her with his hand. We continued walking down Chapel

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:59.399
<v Speaker 2>Street in Reagan's final footsteps. As best as we could

0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>gather from various witness statements, especially an a pool looss,

0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:09.280
<v Speaker 2>we needed to stand on the precise spot where Reagan's

0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:11.400
<v Speaker 2>body came to rest.

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.360
<v Speaker 3>And A Poulos who worked in a Merrickville shop said

0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 3>in evidence that she served Reagan minutes before he was

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:22.759
<v Speaker 3>shot dead. After serving some cabanossi to Reagan, she heard

0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:25.839
<v Speaker 3>several loud explosions near her shop, ran out and saw

0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:28.000
<v Speaker 3>Reagan lying face down on the road in a pool

0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:31.839
<v Speaker 3>of blood. Reagan had been working west in Chapel Street

0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:32.919
<v Speaker 3>when he was shot in the back.

0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:34.959
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so let's have a look.

0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:38.759
<v Speaker 4>We think it's roughly where that zebra crossing is, right,

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:43.560
<v Speaker 4>So this young woman comes out here. Here's the noises

0:36:44.080 --> 0:36:48.040
<v Speaker 4>rushes out here, and can see a body down there.

0:36:48.120 --> 0:36:52.759
<v Speaker 2>Right, Let's go and walk down. This is all the

0:36:52.800 --> 0:36:57.200
<v Speaker 2>pool losses right down to the corner. Apparently it's a

0:36:57.280 --> 0:37:03.760
<v Speaker 2>massive block. Many months after we'd visited the murder scene,

0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Kelly called me she'd found something curious in Anapoulos's statement

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 2>to police that I'll admit I'd completely overlooked. It was

0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:18.960
<v Speaker 2>just a couple of sentences, but those words tore a

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 2>massive hole in the fabric of the official police narrative

0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:28.799
<v Speaker 2>of Reagan's murder after half a century. What Annapoulos said

0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:32.440
<v Speaker 2>in her statement recorded by police in the nearby Newtown

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 2>police station two days after the murder has never been

0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:44.120
<v Speaker 2>satisfactorily explained. It's the flow in the rug. After seeing

0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:48.760
<v Speaker 2>the car with the two potential suspects take off, Anapulos

0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:49.800
<v Speaker 2>says this.

0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:53.280
<v Speaker 15>I then went across the road to where another Greek

0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:56.640
<v Speaker 15>lady was standing. I spoke to her. Then together we

0:37:56.719 --> 0:37:59.799
<v Speaker 15>started to walk down Chapel Street towards the school, and

0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:02.719
<v Speaker 15>at the beginning of the building of the school, there

0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.880
<v Speaker 15>was a car driving down Chapel Street, and in the

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 15>headlights I saw that there was the body of a

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:11.719
<v Speaker 15>man laying on the roadway, and the husband of the

0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:14.440
<v Speaker 15>Greek lady I was with, who was where this body

0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:17.200
<v Speaker 15>was on the road, called to us to stay where

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:17.680
<v Speaker 15>we were.

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Who was this Greek lady and her husband both must

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.640
<v Speaker 2>have witnessed the shooting, given they were already there in

0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:32.279
<v Speaker 2>Chapel Street when Annapoulos ran out on hearing the gunfire

0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 2>from the kitchen in the back of her shop. Who

0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:41.760
<v Speaker 2>were these two people? By the time Annapoulos entered Chapel

0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Street just seconds after hearing the gunshots, the mysterious Greek

0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:52.760
<v Speaker 2>lady and her husband were already there. Given the time frame,

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 2>you could safely assume then that the Greek lady and

0:38:56.000 --> 0:39:01.880
<v Speaker 2>her husband had witnessed the Assassins shooting rega. Didn't this

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:06.560
<v Speaker 2>make them the number one witnesses in Reagan's murder? And

0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:11.240
<v Speaker 2>what was the Greek lady's husband doing leaning over Reagan's body?

0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:15.480
<v Speaker 2>How did he get there so quickly after the shooting,

0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 2>which included two close range headshots. This may have been speculation,

0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 2>but it was tethered in logic. Was the so called

0:39:27.120 --> 0:39:31.920
<v Speaker 2>husband leaning over Reagan's body actually the man he'd arranged

0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to meet that evening? And was the Greek lady on

0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:42.160
<v Speaker 2>the footpath nearby actually Helen Scott Hughey. I needed to

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:47.839
<v Speaker 2>talk to Detective Michael Drury about this extraordinary scenario. I

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>needed him to hover over the scene and explain what

0:39:51.080 --> 0:39:52.640
<v Speaker 2>was credible and what was not.

0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 14>There could have been several reasons for the motive of

0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:00.319
<v Speaker 14>the meeting, and it could have all been re laid

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:04.000
<v Speaker 14>to Reagan by Helen Scott Huey, because we know he's

0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:07.400
<v Speaker 14>as paranoid as anything, and he goes wandering off with

0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:09.839
<v Speaker 14>her on a Sunday evening at that time, it would

0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:14.440
<v Speaker 14>have been dark. She had to know who he was meeting,

0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:19.239
<v Speaker 14>and it's highly probable, I would suggest to you that

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:21.560
<v Speaker 14>she was going to take him home after this meeting

0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:26.080
<v Speaker 14>because he had no bags, no money, no guns, no drugs,

0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:29.200
<v Speaker 14>et cetera, et cetera on him. So it really wasn't

0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:32.840
<v Speaker 14>intended to be a long meeting anyway, and it was

0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:35.520
<v Speaker 14>going to be on the footpath, et cetera. And what's

0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:39.480
<v Speaker 14>happened is, there's no doubt in my mind, roughly around

0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 14>that location, probably in the school, there's those two co

0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:49.920
<v Speaker 14>offenders have been hiding in waiting. Reagan's there with the fellow.

0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:53.480
<v Speaker 14>They've come out and gone bang bang bang bang bang.

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:58.800
<v Speaker 14>There's no adverse body language from the fellow that's talking

0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:02.040
<v Speaker 14>to Reagan. Higgans in a relaxed state, if you know

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:05.760
<v Speaker 14>what I mean, I fish. You can see from the

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:08.160
<v Speaker 14>description of the eight worns a couple of them are

0:41:08.160 --> 0:41:13.160
<v Speaker 14>flesh worms where he's grazed. But it sounds to me

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:17.239
<v Speaker 14>like the final shots, the one through the head and

0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:20.799
<v Speaker 14>one through the back of the head, are to absolutely

0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:24.920
<v Speaker 14>guarantee that he's dead, and they didn't take place when

0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 14>he was standing up. They took place when he was

0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:31.120
<v Speaker 14>laying down, and that would have absolutely guaranteed, because if

0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:34.479
<v Speaker 14>you're involved in this type of behavior, you don't wanting

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:39.520
<v Speaker 14>to recover six months later and come looking for you.

0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Say, even though a couple might have been grazers, and

0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:47.720
<v Speaker 2>the couple might have been close range headshots, the other shots,

0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:51.320
<v Speaker 2>how difficult is it at dusk or in the dark

0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:55.680
<v Speaker 2>to hit a target with a thirty eight with that

0:41:55.719 --> 0:41:56.839
<v Speaker 2>sort of accuracy.

0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:01.960
<v Speaker 14>They must have been very close, you know, within twenty

0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:05.040
<v Speaker 14>meters or less. Because you've got to remember also that

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:08.160
<v Speaker 14>he was talking to this other mile and so you

0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:10.160
<v Speaker 14>didn't want the other male shot.

0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:12.120
<v Speaker 2>We don't know whether he was talking to that male.

0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:14.799
<v Speaker 2>We know that there was an a male leaning over

0:42:14.840 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 2>the body, which the Greek lady on the footpath said,

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:23.040
<v Speaker 2>that's my husband. Yeah, but I mean, given the timeframe

0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:25.879
<v Speaker 2>of the sound of the explosions and Apoulos running into

0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 2>the chapel street, bumping into the lady and seeing a

0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:33.280
<v Speaker 2>man over a body, is it wrong just to hypothesize

0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:35.080
<v Speaker 2>that the man leaning over the body might have been

0:42:35.080 --> 0:42:36.840
<v Speaker 2>one of the shooters?

0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:37.400
<v Speaker 3>Correct?

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:43.359
<v Speaker 2>Because the timeframe is so tight. Correct, Drury made a

0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:46.480
<v Speaker 2>cold assessment of the scene as if it was frozen

0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:47.280
<v Speaker 2>in time.

0:42:47.680 --> 0:42:51.120
<v Speaker 14>Look all this happened in the blink of an eye,

0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:53.520
<v Speaker 14>and whether it's a second or two here or a

0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 14>second or two there, that's okay in the circumstances. What

0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:00.319
<v Speaker 14>you've got to look at is, let me is a

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:05.800
<v Speaker 14>word that everyone will understand the sinister movement or behavior

0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:11.840
<v Speaker 14>of individuals over this couple of minutes around the killing

0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:16.560
<v Speaker 14>of Reagan. Okay, I would suggest to you that there

0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:21.840
<v Speaker 14>is nothing sinister about the behavior of Anapoulos. The two

0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:26.320
<v Speaker 14>males that she sees run down to a vehicle, jump

0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:30.279
<v Speaker 14>in the vehicle and drive off at high speed. That

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:35.360
<v Speaker 14>is sinister. There is no doubt about that behavior of

0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:40.000
<v Speaker 14>the male standing over the body, who I take it

0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:41.800
<v Speaker 14>police have not identified.

0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, this is the big question. I mean, this is

0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:46.719
<v Speaker 2>what I wanted to ask you, I would have would

0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:49.279
<v Speaker 2>have assumed, even at a distance of fifty years, that

0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the so called Greek woman on the footpath and the

0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:56.600
<v Speaker 2>man leaning over the body her so called husband. I

0:43:56.600 --> 0:44:00.560
<v Speaker 2>would have imagined to any investigating police officer arriving on

0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 2>the scene, that they'd be the first people I'd want

0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:03.000
<v Speaker 2>to talk to.

0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:09.759
<v Speaker 14>Correct, they're primary witnesses. Yeah, they're at the scene of

0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:14.160
<v Speaker 14>the crime. They're either eyewitnesses to the crime or they're

0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 14>involved in the crime.

0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:16.120
<v Speaker 9>Yes.

0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Another question begs to be answered. Had Reagan been relaxed

0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and comfortable going to his meeting unarmed without his usual

0:44:26.400 --> 0:44:31.640
<v Speaker 2>bulletproof vest or bodyguard because he was accompanying his girlfriend,

0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Helen Scott Huey, had she gone and parked the car

0:44:37.120 --> 0:44:40.520
<v Speaker 2>while he bought his cabanossi in the pool Loss delicatessen

0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:46.759
<v Speaker 2>Kelly Slater. Reagan would put questions about the unidentified Greek

0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:50.239
<v Speaker 2>woman and her husband to the New South Wales Unsolved

0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:55.439
<v Speaker 2>Homicide Team. She was told that, according to the Reagan murderphiles,

0:44:55.600 --> 0:45:00.000
<v Speaker 2>both of these mysterious strangers apparently gave statements to police

0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:04.759
<v Speaker 2>after Reagan was killed. The records said the couple had

0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:09.239
<v Speaker 2>been interviewed in their home. Why were they interviewed at

0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:12.759
<v Speaker 2>home and not in various police stations like other witnesses.

0:45:14.000 --> 0:45:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Why weren't they brought in immediately and questioned by police?

0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:25.680
<v Speaker 2>What were their names? Did they even exist? And why

0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:29.319
<v Speaker 2>were their statements never presented to the coroner during the

0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:34.520
<v Speaker 2>inquest into Reagan's death in nineteen seventy seven. Why weren't

0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:39.040
<v Speaker 2>they called as witnesses before the coroner given their importance

0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:46.160
<v Speaker 2>to the murder investigation. Michael Drury offered an hypothesis.

0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:47.680
<v Speaker 14>Well, let me put this to you. We know that

0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:53.960
<v Speaker 14>Scott Hughey takes Reagan to this alleged meeting, okay, and

0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:57.439
<v Speaker 14>from there, at this alleged meeting, when she drops him off,

0:45:57.800 --> 0:46:01.040
<v Speaker 14>we then know that Scott Hugh he does a statement

0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:05.480
<v Speaker 14>for the police shortly thereafter, days or whatever, and she

0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:09.319
<v Speaker 14>says she sees him walking off down the footpath in

0:46:09.360 --> 0:46:10.680
<v Speaker 14>her rear vision mirror.

0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Correct.

0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:17.360
<v Speaker 14>I find that interesting because I also understand that shortly

0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:19.560
<v Speaker 14>after he gets out of the vehicle, he goes into

0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:22.279
<v Speaker 14>the shop and gets a cabanossi, and so he would

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:24.920
<v Speaker 14>have been out of eyesight and he comes out of

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.520
<v Speaker 14>the shop. To me, it's logical that she'd wait on

0:46:27.560 --> 0:46:30.280
<v Speaker 14>the footpath for him taking down to meet her husband

0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:35.400
<v Speaker 14>to talk about something. She's moved away. It's an ambush

0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:39.239
<v Speaker 14>and from there she's been caught at the scene by

0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:45.399
<v Speaker 14>Anna Poulos. I'm surprised that she said that the man

0:46:45.520 --> 0:46:49.600
<v Speaker 14>leaning over the body was her husband to Anapoulos, I

0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:52.759
<v Speaker 14>imagine that the police would have got a statement from

0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:58.160
<v Speaker 14>him to miss Scott hue to say that is my husband.

0:46:58.520 --> 0:47:02.359
<v Speaker 14>I think that's there very very sinister evidence from an

0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:07.080
<v Speaker 14>independent witness, I think, and at Pool Loss this is

0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:12.080
<v Speaker 14>fantastic because this fits perfectly to This is a setup

0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:17.120
<v Speaker 14>and a sting by the family and friends.

0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>The family of Helen Scott Hughey in retaliation for the

0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:23.920
<v Speaker 2>murder of Carlos. Correct I had a long discussion about

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:28.919
<v Speaker 2>this with Kelly. Helen Scott Huey formed a peculiar relationship,

0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:32.200
<v Speaker 2>you'd have to say, with Reagan's de facto wife, Margaret,

0:47:32.760 --> 0:47:36.080
<v Speaker 2>They in fact had a friendship. Correct and Helen Scott

0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Huey expressed to Margaret she didn't believe Reagan had murdered

0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:42.839
<v Speaker 2>her son. So you have the initial reaction that from

0:47:42.840 --> 0:47:46.280
<v Speaker 2>witnesses we've spoken to that she was convinced Reagan murdered

0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.960
<v Speaker 2>the boy. Then you have Helen Scott poling up with

0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:54.919
<v Speaker 2>Margaret Reagan and saying John didn't do it. These two

0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:57.760
<v Speaker 2>facts are not reconciling with each other, right.

0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Help or have you got Lee threatening her like you

0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:03.359
<v Speaker 3>know what they were like back then?

0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:06.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So then we come to this, if we continue

0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 2>this theory, Reagan spent his last day with Helen Scott

0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:14.279
<v Speaker 2>Huey and his daughter to Margaret Helen yep, as we've

0:48:14.280 --> 0:48:16.960
<v Speaker 2>looked at that, it was a dispute outside Barrack Motors.

0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:19.919
<v Speaker 2>When Mark came to pick up Helen, she took off

0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:23.160
<v Speaker 2>with the child, exasperating Reagan. She'd never stood up to

0:48:23.239 --> 0:48:25.960
<v Speaker 2>him like that before. And then he was subsequently driven

0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:29.799
<v Speaker 2>to this so called meeting in Marrickville by Helen Scott Huey, and.

0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:32.720
<v Speaker 3>Helen Scott Huey reminded him of Oliver Meeting.

0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:35.960
<v Speaker 2>This is something we've discussed at nauseam for years. But

0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>if we'd run with this theory, and it's only a theory,

0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Stuart John Reagan was a very very cautious criminal. Extremely

0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:49.320
<v Speaker 2>he was permanently alert and in the latter years constantly armed.

0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:52.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've spoken to one of his girlfriends for

0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.480
<v Speaker 2>one of a better word in the sixties, and he

0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 2>carried a small foom in an ankle holster, so he

0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:01.759
<v Speaker 2>was prepared at all time, wore a body armor, had

0:49:01.760 --> 0:49:05.520
<v Speaker 2>body armor and bodyguard. But on this Sunday when he's

0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:10.439
<v Speaker 2>dropped off at Merrickville, he has no weapons, no body armor,

0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:14.960
<v Speaker 2>no bodyguard. Wanders into a shop by himself and buys

0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 2>his favorite sausage, comes out and just sallies down the

0:49:18.239 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 2>road on a Sunday afternoon. Walk into this trap.

0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:26.360
<v Speaker 3>And he's walked past a motor vehicle in an alley.

0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:30.680
<v Speaker 3>He hasn't we raised any eyebrows. He's kept going down

0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:31.480
<v Speaker 3>the dark alley.

0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:34.319
<v Speaker 2>So why on this Sunday, in that moment is this

0:49:34.480 --> 0:49:38.480
<v Speaker 2>man who is perpetually on guard for his own life,

0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:42.160
<v Speaker 2>given what he's involved in. Why in this one moment

0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:46.960
<v Speaker 2>is he totally defenseless like.

0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:49.239
<v Speaker 3>He's someone with him. When you've got other people with

0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:51.160
<v Speaker 3>your guard comes down a bit, don't.

0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 2>It, Okay? So this leads to logically exactly that was

0:49:55.560 --> 0:49:59.319
<v Speaker 2>he with somebody whom he felt completely relaxed with. Was

0:49:59.360 --> 0:50:02.680
<v Speaker 2>he going to meeting that? It indeed may have been

0:50:02.719 --> 0:50:07.360
<v Speaker 2>appropriate for this mythical companion that had relaxed him to

0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:09.120
<v Speaker 2>the point of where which is just like he was

0:50:09.840 --> 0:50:11.320
<v Speaker 2>going for an afternoon.

0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:13.799
<v Speaker 3>Walk, like a dinner, a dinner or something like that.

0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Ye're not a high ocdane business meeting, because he kept

0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:19.000
<v Speaker 2>his biness and pleasures very very separate.

0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 3>Very separate, very separate.

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:24.880
<v Speaker 2>So was he walking down Chapel Street with a girlfriend

0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 2>going to a social event, which would explain the lack

0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:32.960
<v Speaker 2>of weaponry, the casualness of the moment, and also the

0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:36.760
<v Speaker 2>vulnerability of a very very cautious man who ordinarily would

0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:39.480
<v Speaker 2>never a million years have walked into such a trap.

0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Detective Eric Gollan was working that Sunday when news filtered

0:50:45.000 --> 0:50:48.759
<v Speaker 2>through to police that the notorious Johnny Reagan had been

0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:51.200
<v Speaker 2>gunned down in Merrickville.

0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:54.239
<v Speaker 16>We were working on the afternoon chist on twenty one

0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:55.799
<v Speaker 16>der Vision. We all got a call to go to

0:50:55.800 --> 0:50:57.920
<v Speaker 16>the SiO Boo and report to Rocky Morson.

0:50:59.280 --> 0:50:59.440
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Was that every one in the division.

0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:04.000
<v Speaker 16>Or everyone available, everyone.

0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Available, Wow, and he held a meeting there.

0:51:07.239 --> 0:51:10.360
<v Speaker 16>He breathed us, all, yeah, he got all specific tasks.

0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:13.480
<v Speaker 16>He is really and had so many different properties and

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:16.279
<v Speaker 16>so many different motives. People would want to get rid

0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:20.560
<v Speaker 16>of him. I never ever actually met him. Everyone was

0:51:20.600 --> 0:51:24.160
<v Speaker 16>aware of him. He was notorious for his activities and

0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:27.799
<v Speaker 16>of course he was the number one suspect for the murderers.

0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.880
<v Speaker 16>Carlos got Hughey, the little boy from Taylor Square.

0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Despite a myriad of possible motives, Eric said, everything quickly

0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:39.040
<v Speaker 2>came back to Carlos and his mother, Helen.

0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 16>The theory was that the mother of the child set

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:47.000
<v Speaker 16>him up because he was very guarded. Body guards with

0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:48.799
<v Speaker 16>him at different time, but he turned up for this

0:51:48.880 --> 0:51:50.120
<v Speaker 16>meeting with no one name.

0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:54.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's the great mystery, isn't it. Yeah, that's so

0:51:54.719 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 2>out of character for him.

0:51:56.800 --> 0:52:00.640
<v Speaker 16>We were told given all specific jobs to do by Rocky.

0:52:00.760 --> 0:52:03.320
<v Speaker 16>He knew all the addresses of the houses for the

0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:06.440
<v Speaker 16>owned and the place. He's like a frequent No one

0:52:06.440 --> 0:52:08.480
<v Speaker 16>had a motive at that stage for the murder, but

0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:10.279
<v Speaker 16>it was a very vicious murder in the middle of

0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:13.440
<v Speaker 16>the street in marytll So we went out and we

0:52:13.560 --> 0:52:19.120
<v Speaker 16>had to just sit off in surveillance mode on different

0:52:19.120 --> 0:52:21.520
<v Speaker 16>houses because it wasn't known whether or not it was

0:52:21.560 --> 0:52:23.960
<v Speaker 16>someone who he'd upset with the girls, or whether he'd

0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:27.960
<v Speaker 16>upset someone who was in the houses, or so will

0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:34.399
<v Speaker 16>poor old Rocky. He's gone now, unfortunately, but just as

0:52:34.400 --> 0:52:38.279
<v Speaker 16>a comed you saw it, he said. Now when you

0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:42.240
<v Speaker 16>go out there, he said, make sure if you find

0:52:42.239 --> 0:52:45.239
<v Speaker 16>out who did it, he said, being straight back into me.

0:52:45.520 --> 0:52:49.440
<v Speaker 16>So I can pin a police friends, bad John, he says,

0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:50.480
<v Speaker 16>then we'll deal with it.

0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. So that was that was the level

0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:56.719
<v Speaker 2>of loathing that Ricka was held in.

0:52:57.400 --> 0:53:01.760
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, yeah, and of course the all stories about Reagan,

0:53:01.880 --> 0:53:05.480
<v Speaker 16>and then the Rocky said, well get out of here,

0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:09.319
<v Speaker 16>do your job. Record back to his anything he said,

0:53:09.360 --> 0:53:12.839
<v Speaker 16>and Gilligan, iye, gone down to the Maork So we're

0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:15.440
<v Speaker 16>going to put a mirror under his nose, put some

0:53:15.520 --> 0:53:17.600
<v Speaker 16>pins in his foot to see the bus just dead.

0:53:18.520 --> 0:53:22.239
<v Speaker 2>When nothing turned up. After watching Reagan's properties, Golan and

0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:25.920
<v Speaker 2>other officers decided to head over to Chapel Street, Merrickville

0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:29.760
<v Speaker 2>and take a look for themselves. And was the street

0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:32.040
<v Speaker 2>was sealed off when you arrived?

0:53:32.280 --> 0:53:32.440
<v Speaker 17>Oh?

0:53:32.480 --> 0:53:35.319
<v Speaker 16>I think they'd finished with the in those days, they'd

0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:38.200
<v Speaker 16>finished with the crime scene right age.

0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:42.000
<v Speaker 2>But definitely Reagan's blood on the road.

0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:43.759
<v Speaker 5>I believe it to be.

0:53:43.840 --> 0:53:45.960
<v Speaker 16>Anyway, you know quite a number rounds.

0:53:45.680 --> 0:53:49.400
<v Speaker 2>I asked, Was there a measure of relief amongst police that,

0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:51.520
<v Speaker 2>however he'd been dispatched, he was gone.

0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:54.960
<v Speaker 16>Well, you got to look at it two ways. I

0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:57.680
<v Speaker 16>don't think there was any release. I think there would

0:53:57.719 --> 0:53:59.359
<v Speaker 16>have been a lot of release if we had found

0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:01.560
<v Speaker 16>out who actual we did it, that would have been

0:54:01.600 --> 0:54:03.360
<v Speaker 16>a big release because she would have got ridy to

0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:07.719
<v Speaker 16>tell them then, wouldn't he or more? But it was

0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:11.200
<v Speaker 16>a bad crook, and I don't think he got convicted

0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:13.920
<v Speaker 16>of much at all because he was just too smart

0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:17.040
<v Speaker 16>for everyone.

0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Margare recalls when she was informed that Johnny Reagan was dead.

0:54:22.880 --> 0:54:27.640
<v Speaker 2>When did you first hear about him being shot to death?

0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:31.759
<v Speaker 9>The same night? I can't remember where I was when

0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:32.239
<v Speaker 9>they were in me.

0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:34.719
<v Speaker 2>They didn't come to the door or no.

0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:39.080
<v Speaker 9>I don't know how I knew. I think I was

0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:43.560
<v Speaker 9>at my father's house. I can't remember, but it.

0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Was that Sunday evening.

0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:46.360
<v Speaker 9>It was definitely that night.

0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:53.480
<v Speaker 4>And they said Johnny's been shot dead. Yeah, do you

0:54:54.000 --> 0:54:56.640
<v Speaker 4>vaguely even remember what your reaction was?

0:54:57.560 --> 0:54:57.840
<v Speaker 5>Shock?

0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:00.560
<v Speaker 9>Of course it was shot, Yeah.

0:55:00.320 --> 0:55:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Of course, fears for your children without a fire.

0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:06.200
<v Speaker 9>I didn't even think of that. I just thought, well,

0:55:06.600 --> 0:55:07.560
<v Speaker 9>why shocked?

0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:08.800
<v Speaker 5>Shocked?

0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:11.800
<v Speaker 9>I put myself in that situation that I was there,

0:55:12.160 --> 0:55:13.080
<v Speaker 9>I called a beatane.

0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Were you called upon to identify the body?

0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:17.080
<v Speaker 17>No?

0:55:17.680 --> 0:55:18.360
<v Speaker 2>You know who was?

0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:19.359
<v Speaker 9>No?

0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:21.239
<v Speaker 3>Do you know?

0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:22.600
<v Speaker 9>No?

0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean usually it is the prerogative of the father

0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:29.200
<v Speaker 2>of the family. Do you think the colonel.

0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:31.640
<v Speaker 9>Definitely, I'd say it was her.

0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Do you know how she reacted initially to her son's death?

0:55:37.640 --> 0:55:41.360
<v Speaker 9>She blamed the police? She did, Yes, she did. Police

0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:43.200
<v Speaker 9>to kill my son, the police to kill my son.

0:55:43.840 --> 0:55:47.000
<v Speaker 2>You don't know what basis she might have had for

0:55:47.080 --> 0:55:47.600
<v Speaker 2>that theory.

0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:51.719
<v Speaker 9>See, his mother knew more than what everybody thought. She

0:55:51.800 --> 0:55:56.600
<v Speaker 9>knew he would confine in his mother fears, since he's

0:55:56.640 --> 0:55:58.399
<v Speaker 9>always confided in his mother.

0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Do you think she knew more about his gangster activities.

0:56:01.920 --> 0:56:02.439
<v Speaker 5>Than you did?

0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:02.919
<v Speaker 9>Yes?

0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, what sort of mother would know that and not

0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:10.160
<v Speaker 2>try and make a an intervention?

0:56:10.360 --> 0:56:13.239
<v Speaker 9>Or she loved the limelight of it. My sons were

0:56:13.360 --> 0:56:16.120
<v Speaker 9>out there, and my son's you know, dear my son

0:56:16.160 --> 0:56:19.080
<v Speaker 9>to bring money home, bring jewelry home, bring them whatever.

0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:23.239
<v Speaker 9>And he's tough, and he's tough. Some people love that

0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:24.960
<v Speaker 9>kind of thing. Look at my son, look at me,

0:56:25.000 --> 0:56:27.480
<v Speaker 9>and look at me. So I think that was don't

0:56:27.560 --> 0:56:30.000
<v Speaker 9>muck around or my son will get you, you know

0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:30.880
<v Speaker 9>that kind of thing.

0:56:31.080 --> 0:56:34.080
<v Speaker 2>So she think you think she sort of fed off

0:56:34.080 --> 0:56:36.080
<v Speaker 2>it or lived lived off his repretation.

0:56:36.440 --> 0:56:41.719
<v Speaker 9>Definitely for many years. It's a really sad story. It's

0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:46.040
<v Speaker 9>a sad story. He confided in his mother and listened

0:56:46.080 --> 0:56:50.239
<v Speaker 9>to his mother more than anybody, even us. I personally,

0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:55.200
<v Speaker 9>myself will never forgive her. Never. First of all, she

0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:59.120
<v Speaker 9>created a monster with John. She created from his childhood

0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:03.640
<v Speaker 9>who as a normal kid from a country town and

0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:06.880
<v Speaker 9>comes into the big city and changes completely. Was she

0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:09.520
<v Speaker 9>loved it. She loved every minute of it.

0:57:10.560 --> 0:57:11.400
<v Speaker 2>That's not normal.

0:57:11.520 --> 0:57:12.320
<v Speaker 9>No, it's not normal.

0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:17.919
<v Speaker 2>One of the first things police asked marg was did

0:57:17.960 --> 0:57:22.920
<v Speaker 2>you arrange to have Reagan killed? It's a question the

0:57:22.960 --> 0:57:27.000
<v Speaker 2>police had to ask. And why not? He was fueling

0:57:27.040 --> 0:57:30.920
<v Speaker 2>around with plenty of other women. Had she had enough

0:57:31.040 --> 0:57:36.840
<v Speaker 2>of his violent, philandering ways. Naturally, she denied the allegation.

0:57:38.160 --> 0:57:40.840
<v Speaker 2>She can't remember the details, but she said she was

0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:44.360
<v Speaker 2>further brought in for questioning at the Darlinghurst police station.

0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:49.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what I knew. He was killed and

0:57:49.320 --> 0:57:52.480
<v Speaker 2>they brought me in. I can't remember that right, And

0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:54.960
<v Speaker 2>the purpose of bringing you in if you knew was

0:57:55.040 --> 0:57:57.360
<v Speaker 2>to tell you again, or to tell you from the

0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:00.640
<v Speaker 2>horse's mouth, or well, I assume so.

0:58:00.920 --> 0:58:05.000
<v Speaker 18>But because at one stage in the conversation he did

0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:11.000
<v Speaker 18>ask me whether I had killed Johnny, meaning jealousy and

0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:14.720
<v Speaker 18>things like that, because we knew that he was involved

0:58:14.760 --> 0:58:18.840
<v Speaker 18>with other women. And did you have any input inship

0:58:18.840 --> 0:58:22.160
<v Speaker 18>together with john That's really the thing that's stuck in

0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:22.840
<v Speaker 18>my head, and of.

0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Course I've gone no, of course not really.

0:58:26.240 --> 0:58:29.200
<v Speaker 18>A lot of that conversation is blocking my head somewhere.

0:58:30.800 --> 0:58:34.280
<v Speaker 2>What shocked Mark given at the time was why Johnny

0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:38.320
<v Speaker 2>would enter Chapel Street unarmed and alone.

0:58:39.520 --> 0:58:43.240
<v Speaker 18>Actually worked out as walking through Chapel Street or to Marple.

0:58:43.840 --> 0:58:48.240
<v Speaker 18>He was confident that whoever he was meeting was his

0:58:48.360 --> 0:58:52.919
<v Speaker 18>friend or or Isnes his partner or somebody. He went

0:58:53.640 --> 0:58:58.080
<v Speaker 18>whoever they had been, with great confidence. That's what I think,

0:58:58.160 --> 0:59:00.960
<v Speaker 18>because I knew how the man work. She would never

0:59:01.040 --> 0:59:04.919
<v Speaker 18>go anywhere. He would have someone beside him. We think

0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:07.480
<v Speaker 18>he would do things together with people, you know what

0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:10.880
<v Speaker 18>I mean. Yes, So for him to go to that

0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:15.080
<v Speaker 18>linking at Marathon, it was just like a Sunday walk

0:59:15.160 --> 0:59:18.520
<v Speaker 18>to him, oh onto the Spawner shop had happen. Not

0:59:18.600 --> 0:59:21.160
<v Speaker 18>seeing the corner and walk down the road. Whatever it did,

0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:24.680
<v Speaker 18>he had no fear wherever he was going. To remember

0:59:24.760 --> 0:59:27.800
<v Speaker 18>that I seen him what an hour and a half

0:59:27.800 --> 0:59:31.520
<v Speaker 18>before he was killed, and he wanted me to drive Hidney,

0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:35.240
<v Speaker 18>to drive him somewhere. He didn't say Martha, he didn't

0:59:35.240 --> 0:59:37.120
<v Speaker 18>say link. If did, don't want you to drive me.

0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:40.200
<v Speaker 18>And as you know the rest of the story, and

0:59:40.360 --> 0:59:43.560
<v Speaker 18>I have his daughter in the car. So when you

0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:46.280
<v Speaker 18>think about that that way, do you think that he

0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:49.160
<v Speaker 18>would have been capable of taking me and his daughter

0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:51.880
<v Speaker 18>if he thought there was fear, I would have probably

0:59:51.920 --> 0:59:54.800
<v Speaker 18>never met who he was needy if I would have went,

0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:57.840
<v Speaker 18>If he would have thought it was a setup, we

0:59:58.240 --> 1:00:02.240
<v Speaker 18>have asked me to go, and I had towering the car,

1:00:02.760 --> 1:00:06.240
<v Speaker 18>and that's his own child. So he's Gonel with the

1:00:06.320 --> 1:00:11.160
<v Speaker 18>uppermis whoever is leading not a problem.

1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Everybody knew that Reagan only trusted a small handful of

1:00:15.480 --> 1:00:19.480
<v Speaker 2>people in his world. One at the top of the

1:00:19.520 --> 1:00:24.520
<v Speaker 2>list was mob boss Frederick Paddles Anderson, the father figure

1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:28.960
<v Speaker 2>sitting at the table at Checkers Nightclub celebrating Reagan's twenty

1:00:29.040 --> 1:00:34.320
<v Speaker 2>first birthday in nineteen sixty six. The master to Reagan's

1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:41.800
<v Speaker 2>criminal apprentice. Reagan's longtime solicitor Michael Seymour thought of Paddles

1:00:41.840 --> 1:00:45.680
<v Speaker 2>down the years in relation to Reagan's murder.

1:00:47.640 --> 1:00:53.400
<v Speaker 19>When when he was shot and it appeared to he

1:00:53.520 --> 1:01:01.280
<v Speaker 19>was lured too, Mark Gil I someone's early fast. I

1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:01.920
<v Speaker 19>thought about it.

1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:05.240
<v Speaker 3>Now, the would it be Fred?

1:01:06.800 --> 1:01:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Don't know really well?

1:01:08.440 --> 1:01:09.400
<v Speaker 7>Was that your first thought?

1:01:10.160 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Why did you think that.

1:01:12.560 --> 1:01:17.080
<v Speaker 19>Reagan trusted him? Would have been had to someone that

1:01:17.200 --> 1:01:21.720
<v Speaker 19>Reagan trusted implicitly because I heard that he was to

1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:25.640
<v Speaker 19>meet someone and there was a bit of money involved.

1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Then there's this recollection from a criminal source of mine

1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:37.480
<v Speaker 2>in Queensland. I trust this source implicitly. In over fifteen years.

1:01:37.480 --> 1:01:40.600
<v Speaker 2>He has never, in a single instance provided me with

1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:45.360
<v Speaker 2>even slightly inaccurate information. He's what the criminal milieu call

1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:48.720
<v Speaker 2>a scaly wag or a scaly but he's as honest

1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:52.440
<v Speaker 2>as the day is long. This scalley of mine was

1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:56.160
<v Speaker 2>and remains friends with many leading criminals in the late

1:01:56.200 --> 1:02:01.200
<v Speaker 2>sixties and early nineteen seventies. One of those friends will

1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:04.800
<v Speaker 2>call Max. Max worked for Reagan in the early nineteen

1:02:04.840 --> 1:02:10.880
<v Speaker 2>seventies in Reagan's lucrative land scams. Max was one of

1:02:10.880 --> 1:02:14.440
<v Speaker 2>the scams salesmen who gilded the lily, sold the land

1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:19.440
<v Speaker 2>and did a runner with the cash. Through Reagan, Max

1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:22.320
<v Speaker 2>struck up a close relationship with the boss of bosses,

1:02:22.680 --> 1:02:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Paddles Anderson in Sydney. Max and Paddles loved a punt

1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:30.800
<v Speaker 2>and countless times the two of them had dinner and drinks.

1:02:32.560 --> 1:02:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Not long after Reagan's murder, Max and Paddles were socializing.

1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:42.600
<v Speaker 2>That's when Paddles told Max something extraordinary about the day

1:02:42.720 --> 1:02:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Reagan was killed in Chapel Street, Marrickville. Why did the

1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:52.480
<v Speaker 2>usually ultra cautious Reagan turn up to that ill fated

1:02:52.520 --> 1:02:59.440
<v Speaker 2>meeting unarmed because of Paddles. Paddles, as close to Reagan

1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:03.320
<v Speaker 2>as a voting uncle, told Reagan to attend his meeting

1:03:03.840 --> 1:03:09.080
<v Speaker 2>without a gun. In short, Reagan was set up by

1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:11.840
<v Speaker 2>one of the only men in the world that he trusted.

1:03:13.800 --> 1:03:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Here's my source relaying Max's story about what Paddles told

1:03:18.400 --> 1:03:22.520
<v Speaker 2>him all those years ago. So what did he say?

1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:23.280
<v Speaker 2>From your memory?

1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:25.960
<v Speaker 5>Agan, paddle said, you've got a meet up with someone

1:03:26.000 --> 1:03:28.480
<v Speaker 5>that he didn't say who they were, but he said,

1:03:28.520 --> 1:03:33.560
<v Speaker 5>make sure you're not carrying a piece in a handcom.

1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:34.040
<v Speaker 2>So Paddles said that to Reagan.

1:03:34.920 --> 1:03:37.760
<v Speaker 5>To Reagan, yes, made sure you're not carrying a piece,

1:03:38.520 --> 1:03:43.480
<v Speaker 5>was his words, told him directly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But

1:03:43.560 --> 1:03:46.760
<v Speaker 5>Paddles told he said, I call Reagan to make sure

1:03:46.920 --> 1:03:48.920
<v Speaker 5>when he gets to meet you don't have a peace on.

1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:52.560
<v Speaker 2>So Paddles was basically saying to him that he set

1:03:52.640 --> 1:03:53.480
<v Speaker 2>him up for death.

1:03:53.960 --> 1:03:56.920
<v Speaker 5>Well I did think so, Yeah, for sure, Yeah, obviously

1:03:56.960 --> 1:03:58.360
<v Speaker 5>he set him up. Yeah.

1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Reagan's post mortem was conducted on Monday, September twenty three,

1:04:03.240 --> 1:04:07.520
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy four, at the City Morguan Glebe. The cause

1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:11.160
<v Speaker 2>of death was due to bullet wounds to the head, chest,

1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:18.800
<v Speaker 2>and liver. The autopsy recorded penetrating wound six millimeters in

1:04:18.880 --> 1:04:24.600
<v Speaker 2>diameter to the left lumbar region, penetrating entry wound ten

1:04:24.720 --> 1:04:29.440
<v Speaker 2>centimeters to the right of mid line of back. The

1:04:29.480 --> 1:04:33.000
<v Speaker 2>surrounding area of this wound was tattooed and it was

1:04:33.160 --> 1:04:37.880
<v Speaker 2>estimated that the shot was fired from approximately six inches

1:04:38.040 --> 1:04:43.960
<v Speaker 2>from the wound. Grazing wound consistent with a bullet graze,

1:04:44.160 --> 1:04:50.320
<v Speaker 2>penetrating wound in the right lumbar region, penetrating wound close

1:04:50.480 --> 1:04:54.760
<v Speaker 2>to this wound, penetrating wound at the front of chest

1:04:55.080 --> 1:05:02.000
<v Speaker 2>ten centimeters below right sternum, clavicular joint penetrating wound to

1:05:02.080 --> 1:05:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the right occipital region of the skull, penetrating wound to

1:05:07.120 --> 1:05:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the left mastoid process of the back of the skull.

1:05:11.400 --> 1:05:17.360
<v Speaker 2>There was damage to Reagan's right lung, liver, spleen, stomach, pancreas,

1:05:17.400 --> 1:05:21.760
<v Speaker 2>and brain due to tracking bullets. The base of his

1:05:21.880 --> 1:05:27.440
<v Speaker 2>skull and left jawbone were fractured. Four bullets and shrapnel

1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:33.080
<v Speaker 2>were removed from his body. Written in biro on the

1:05:33.120 --> 1:05:39.000
<v Speaker 2>palm of Reagan's left hand was batteries six point zero.

1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:44.120
<v Speaker 2>There it is there. It's a pretty church.

1:05:44.880 --> 1:05:45.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Reagan's funeral was held on Monday, September thirty at Saint

1:05:49.880 --> 1:05:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Brigard's Catholic Church in Kudji. Only about sixty people attended.

1:05:56.080 --> 1:05:59.720
<v Speaker 2>There were probably more undercover police observing from the streets

1:06:00.040 --> 1:06:00.840
<v Speaker 2>around the church.

1:06:01.440 --> 1:06:04.440
<v Speaker 4>So this was the only church that would marry that

1:06:04.520 --> 1:06:06.280
<v Speaker 4>would have a service in.

1:06:07.160 --> 1:06:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Father John Eldridge held a requiem mass. Saint Brigard's was

1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:15.919
<v Speaker 2>the only church that agreed to stage a service for Reagan.

1:06:17.760 --> 1:06:20.640
<v Speaker 2>As Claire Reagan was being helped into the church, she

1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:27.640
<v Speaker 2>shouted at reporters, you bloody crucified him, you bloody robbers.

1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:33.800
<v Speaker 2>As for Reagan's supposed millions in property in cash, his

1:06:33.920 --> 1:06:38.160
<v Speaker 2>solicitor Michael Seymour told reporters at the funeral that Reagan's

1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:41.520
<v Speaker 2>will would probably be made public in a few weeks

1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:46.800
<v Speaker 2>after it had gone through probate. Fifty years later, no

1:06:47.040 --> 1:06:53.600
<v Speaker 2>will has materialized. Wasn't Johnny Reagan the millionaire gangster? Where's

1:06:53.640 --> 1:06:58.600
<v Speaker 2>the money? In his interview with federal narcotics agents, Reagan's

1:06:58.600 --> 1:07:02.880
<v Speaker 2>former drug associate, John Edward Milligan made a curious statement

1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:04.520
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen seventy nine.

1:07:06.480 --> 1:07:08.880
<v Speaker 12>I had a partnership with Reagan at one stage until

1:07:08.920 --> 1:07:11.479
<v Speaker 12>we fell out over that Queensland affair, and he never

1:07:11.520 --> 1:07:14.320
<v Speaker 12>forgave me after that. He used to go around threatening

1:07:14.320 --> 1:07:16.840
<v Speaker 12>to murder me and arrange statements against me in all

1:07:16.880 --> 1:07:19.520
<v Speaker 12>sorts of weird things, writing newspapers about me.

1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:21.920
<v Speaker 2>And I got a guy called the job of.

1:07:21.880 --> 1:07:25.080
<v Speaker 12>Being Reagan's accountant and wound up very wealthy out of

1:07:25.080 --> 1:07:27.680
<v Speaker 12>his association. He made all what the money that was

1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:31.640
<v Speaker 12>left in the bank. When Reagan was murdered assassinated.

1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Stuart John Reagan was cremated. The urn containing his ashes

1:07:36.600 --> 1:07:39.440
<v Speaker 2>was then taken by his loving mother the Colonel and

1:07:39.520 --> 1:07:45.680
<v Speaker 2>brought home to Duke Street, Kensington. She in turn displayed

1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:49.240
<v Speaker 2>the urn in the bedroom of Reagan's son, JP, the

1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:52.439
<v Speaker 2>boy she had also taken possession of from his mother

1:07:52.760 --> 1:07:58.120
<v Speaker 2>marg and there the urn stayed until the Colonel died

1:07:58.440 --> 1:08:03.600
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty eight, and still she held onto her

1:08:03.640 --> 1:08:08.680
<v Speaker 2>beloved Johnny. His ashes went in with her, into his

1:08:08.760 --> 1:08:13.480
<v Speaker 2>mother's arms, into her coffin and plot in Sydney's Rookwood Cemetery.

1:08:15.520 --> 1:08:19.040
<v Speaker 2>One cold windy day, Kelly and I went out to

1:08:19.080 --> 1:08:22.880
<v Speaker 2>see the grave. This is it.

1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:35.200
<v Speaker 3>That's it. Yeah, Claire Mary Reagan always loved and remembered. Wow,

1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:37.840
<v Speaker 3>that's her.

1:08:39.439 --> 1:08:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Underneath your knees kel It's Stuart John Reagan. Yes, the

1:08:44.040 --> 1:08:48.160
<v Speaker 2>gangster is here. Yes, nobody knows that outside the family.

1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:55.760
<v Speaker 4>In turn with his mother, she had the last laugh right.

1:08:57.120 --> 1:09:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Recently, after years of agitation by Kelly's later Reagan, second

1:09:01.320 --> 1:09:06.280
<v Speaker 2>cousin to murdered gangster Stuart John Reagan, members of Sydney's

1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Cold Case homicide Squad drove out to Young to explain

1:09:09.960 --> 1:09:15.200
<v Speaker 2>the status of Reagan's unsolved murder. It was a personal

1:09:15.520 --> 1:09:18.880
<v Speaker 2>and respectful gesture to a family that had waited so

1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:25.080
<v Speaker 2>long for some answers. So, Kelly, the police came and

1:09:25.160 --> 1:09:27.800
<v Speaker 2>visited you in Young Yep.

1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:30.960
<v Speaker 3>So they showed up and we had a fair few

1:09:31.000 --> 1:09:35.160
<v Speaker 3>of the family were there, and we had Inspector Nigel Warren.

1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:39.360
<v Speaker 2>We had The news was as expected. With a fifty

1:09:39.439 --> 1:09:43.200
<v Speaker 2>year cold case murder, police have decided for the moment

1:09:43.479 --> 1:09:48.360
<v Speaker 2>not to actively reopen the investigation. How was everybody feeling

1:09:48.360 --> 1:09:50.040
<v Speaker 2>about the police arriving?

1:09:50.600 --> 1:09:54.479
<v Speaker 3>God, look, Lorraine got the best china out, even got

1:09:54.479 --> 1:09:58.719
<v Speaker 3>out the milk jug and all the good cups and sources.

1:09:58.720 --> 1:09:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Mind you, they didn't have a cup of tea.

1:10:00.520 --> 1:10:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Too much time had passed, too many potential witnesses had

1:10:04.200 --> 1:10:07.960
<v Speaker 2>passed away. The chances of any sort of charges being laid,

1:10:08.120 --> 1:10:13.280
<v Speaker 2>let alone a prosecution, were close to zero. Who were

1:10:13.320 --> 1:10:16.400
<v Speaker 2>the killers? As marg told us so aptly, you may

1:10:16.439 --> 1:10:20.880
<v Speaker 2>as well be playing a game of pick a box? Well,

1:10:21.520 --> 1:10:24.960
<v Speaker 2>what did we learn after years of probing Reagan's life

1:10:25.280 --> 1:10:29.080
<v Speaker 2>and death. We had a lot of rumors that had

1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:34.240
<v Speaker 2>persisted for decades. We had some criminals who believed the

1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:37.439
<v Speaker 2>police finally decided to rid the world of the deadly

1:10:37.560 --> 1:10:41.240
<v Speaker 2>pest that was Johnny Reagan after he crossed the line

1:10:41.520 --> 1:10:45.960
<v Speaker 2>and became a child killer. We had police who blamed

1:10:45.960 --> 1:10:50.240
<v Speaker 2>criminals like Paddles Anderson, Lenny McPherson and George Freeman for

1:10:50.280 --> 1:10:53.600
<v Speaker 2>the assassination after he crossed the line and became a

1:10:53.680 --> 1:10:58.960
<v Speaker 2>child killer. We had observers who believed corrupt police and

1:10:59.160 --> 1:11:05.320
<v Speaker 2>gangsters a life came together to acquit the execution, and

1:11:05.439 --> 1:11:08.880
<v Speaker 2>we had a theory that the murder was closer to home,

1:11:10.000 --> 1:11:14.719
<v Speaker 2>organized as family revenge for the killing of Carlos Scott Huey,

1:11:16.320 --> 1:11:20.920
<v Speaker 2>as Mark z pick a box. To be honest, we

1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:24.719
<v Speaker 2>never expected to drag the real killers out from beneath

1:11:24.720 --> 1:11:30.320
<v Speaker 2>a fifty year mountain of life, death, lies, red herrings,

1:11:30.680 --> 1:11:38.479
<v Speaker 2>lost documents, scattered paperwork, faulty memories, and innumerable conspiracy theories.

1:11:40.320 --> 1:11:43.680
<v Speaker 2>What we wanted to achieve was a fuller picture of

1:11:43.680 --> 1:11:47.759
<v Speaker 2>this man's life and death, especially for the Reagan family.

1:11:48.479 --> 1:11:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Kelly reflected on our epic adventure into the underworld. What

1:11:55.479 --> 1:11:59.640
<v Speaker 2>do you think this is all meant to Margaret and

1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the and the larger Reagan family the journey of the podcast.

1:12:05.880 --> 1:12:09.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't think Mark fully comprehended how much we had

1:12:09.880 --> 1:12:13.439
<v Speaker 3>until we went to Chapel Street. She probably just thought, oh,

1:12:13.479 --> 1:12:15.040
<v Speaker 3>you know, we're going to go out and collect a

1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:19.919
<v Speaker 3>few things. Now it's really got her cogs turning me. Certainly,

1:12:20.160 --> 1:12:22.759
<v Speaker 3>I am seeing things in a different light because Dad

1:12:22.840 --> 1:12:26.920
<v Speaker 3>was kept so insulated from this. Dad's now saying my

1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:30.080
<v Speaker 3>family knew more. What I think is imagine what he

1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:34.120
<v Speaker 3>could have been if it had a great upbringing and

1:12:34.280 --> 1:12:38.519
<v Speaker 3>run his own businesses like multi multi millionaire. But that

1:12:38.680 --> 1:12:41.639
<v Speaker 3>one thing I found absolutely astounding from the very first

1:12:41.640 --> 1:12:44.439
<v Speaker 3>time I ever spoke to you, was that our family

1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:47.320
<v Speaker 3>always knew that John was involved in the Whiskey Go Go,

1:12:47.439 --> 1:12:49.800
<v Speaker 3>and I thought everybody else did, but clearly nobody else

1:12:49.840 --> 1:12:51.080
<v Speaker 3>did other than a few.

1:12:52.160 --> 1:12:56.599
<v Speaker 2>Kelly still wasn't convinced that Reagan had killed Carlos Scott Huey.

1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Was this, no matter how long ago, a bridge too

1:13:02.520 --> 1:13:08.960
<v Speaker 2>far for any family. For marg the pain, the surprises,

1:13:09.200 --> 1:13:13.320
<v Speaker 2>the repercussions of having been partner to one of Australia's

1:13:13.400 --> 1:13:18.519
<v Speaker 2>most notorious gangsters are still being felt. Some of his

1:13:18.720 --> 1:13:23.920
<v Speaker 2>children are still popping out of the woodwork, correct, which

1:13:23.960 --> 1:13:27.639
<v Speaker 2>is incredible to think about. Yep, how does that affect you?

1:13:29.960 --> 1:13:33.519
<v Speaker 9>I don't blame the children, but I won't be involved

1:13:33.560 --> 1:13:36.040
<v Speaker 9>in that I want to be involved. Oh, this is

1:13:36.120 --> 1:13:39.639
<v Speaker 9>Johnny Reagan's child, and you've got to meet them.

1:13:40.240 --> 1:13:43.760
<v Speaker 2>The answer is no, you removed yourself from that. I

1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:46.679
<v Speaker 2>remember myself from that and never go back.

1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:47.360
<v Speaker 9>No.

1:13:47.360 --> 1:13:47.599
<v Speaker 5>No.

1:13:48.720 --> 1:13:52.160
<v Speaker 4>In a way, it's well, it's unusual and it's extraordinary

1:13:52.320 --> 1:13:55.320
<v Speaker 4>in the respect that he Stuart John Reagan, is still

1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:58.240
<v Speaker 4>impacting your family.

1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:02.519
<v Speaker 9>When you talk about my family, think about the other

1:14:02.600 --> 1:14:06.920
<v Speaker 9>women that they've got children. True, still affecting their family.

1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:09.240
<v Speaker 2>I think you said to me this it just never

1:14:09.280 --> 1:14:10.080
<v Speaker 2>seems to end.

1:14:10.840 --> 1:14:13.920
<v Speaker 9>It doesn't seem to end. So this is what we're

1:14:13.960 --> 1:14:20.000
<v Speaker 9>doing now, is the final thing that I can do.

1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:21.479
<v Speaker 9>Whatever comes of it, what.

1:14:21.600 --> 1:14:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Comes of it the podcast.

1:14:23.320 --> 1:14:28.439
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, yeah, I'm here to try and finalize this so

1:14:28.479 --> 1:14:31.280
<v Speaker 9>we can all get on with our lives. As I

1:14:31.400 --> 1:14:36.599
<v Speaker 9>said before, I didn't meet a beast. I didn't meet

1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:39.800
<v Speaker 9>an ugly man. I didn't meet it. I didn't meet

1:14:39.880 --> 1:14:45.040
<v Speaker 9>that person. That person became alive in my eyes later on.

1:14:46.960 --> 1:14:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Marg might just have to wait a little bit longer

1:14:49.960 --> 1:14:54.439
<v Speaker 2>for this story to end. We said right at the

1:14:54.479 --> 1:14:57.559
<v Speaker 2>start of The Gangster's Ghost that this wasn't just an

1:14:57.640 --> 1:15:01.200
<v Speaker 2>investigation into the life and death of an toorious Lobster.

1:15:02.160 --> 1:15:05.360
<v Speaker 2>It was also the story of a family and how

1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:09.200
<v Speaker 2>it carries the generational stain of a black Sheep, a

1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:15.160
<v Speaker 2>man whose shocking deeds have entered the history books. Along

1:15:15.200 --> 1:15:19.240
<v Speaker 2>with the magician's many victims. The Reagans have to heal too,

1:15:19.720 --> 1:15:23.320
<v Speaker 2>and Shotgun Johnny's oldest daughter, Helen, has come up with

1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:26.200
<v Speaker 2>a way she hopes will make that happen.

1:15:28.240 --> 1:15:31.200
<v Speaker 20>Earn that held my father's ashes, sat in the living

1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:34.160
<v Speaker 20>room for years and years. I'd like to bury it

1:15:34.200 --> 1:15:37.120
<v Speaker 20>for once and for all, but in a peaceful where

1:15:37.120 --> 1:15:39.600
<v Speaker 20>his roots and where he had a good life.

1:15:40.400 --> 1:15:45.439
<v Speaker 2>So you'd like to retrieve he's earned from Rookwood.

1:15:46.640 --> 1:15:50.160
<v Speaker 20>Yes, from my grandmother's gravesite, take him back to his

1:15:50.240 --> 1:15:53.880
<v Speaker 20>hometown and be close to his father and the rest

1:15:53.880 --> 1:15:55.680
<v Speaker 20>of the Reagan clan, because at the end of the day,

1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:58.479
<v Speaker 20>he's a Reagan, you know, and that's where he grew up.

1:15:58.520 --> 1:16:01.400
<v Speaker 20>That was probably some of his days too, you know.

1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Is it a case where you'd like to well, can

1:16:04.840 --> 1:16:09.759
<v Speaker 2>I say, rest him away from his mother? And would

1:16:09.800 --> 1:16:12.880
<v Speaker 2>you bury him in alf his father's grave. I mean,

1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:15.519
<v Speaker 2>I've stood at the foot of your grandfather's grave, alf

1:16:16.200 --> 1:16:16.960
<v Speaker 2>In young.

1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:18.799
<v Speaker 9>Would yeah, it'd be lovely.

1:16:18.840 --> 1:16:19.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a lumary spot.

1:16:19.800 --> 1:16:22.240
<v Speaker 9>I mean, I visited it many years ago.

1:16:22.360 --> 1:16:24.360
<v Speaker 20>When I first went there, it was one of the

1:16:24.439 --> 1:16:26.880
<v Speaker 20>first things I asked to do is to see my

1:16:26.920 --> 1:16:31.559
<v Speaker 20>grandfather's grave, and my uncle Lindsey and of the family

1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:35.160
<v Speaker 20>took me there, and it's a beautiful spot, sort of

1:16:35.160 --> 1:16:35.719
<v Speaker 20>on a hill.

1:16:35.880 --> 1:16:38.400
<v Speaker 9>I think it would be just idellic for Dad to

1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:39.360
<v Speaker 9>be there, you know.

1:16:40.320 --> 1:16:42.799
<v Speaker 20>I know for a fact that he would always escape

1:16:42.840 --> 1:16:45.680
<v Speaker 20>down there but never tell the colonel. I think that

1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:49.000
<v Speaker 20>would be nice to them to be together again. It

1:16:49.040 --> 1:16:54.000
<v Speaker 20>would be a homage to my father because I never

1:16:54.040 --> 1:16:55.719
<v Speaker 20>really got the opportunity to say goodbye.

1:16:55.840 --> 1:16:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Did I never got there.

1:16:57.040 --> 1:16:59.200
<v Speaker 20>You know, when I look back at this map, I

1:16:59.280 --> 1:17:01.479
<v Speaker 20>never cried from my father. I never I was too

1:17:01.520 --> 1:17:03.479
<v Speaker 20>young to understand it if he was there one day

1:17:03.479 --> 1:17:06.360
<v Speaker 20>and gone. So this would be my time to actually

1:17:06.439 --> 1:17:11.920
<v Speaker 20>grieve top place and say goodbye, not only for me,

1:17:12.000 --> 1:17:14.360
<v Speaker 20>but you know the readers. You know, we all have

1:17:14.479 --> 1:17:19.920
<v Speaker 20>the same blood in our veins, and you know, I

1:17:19.920 --> 1:17:21.960
<v Speaker 20>think it would be a fitting way to say goodbye.

1:17:22.120 --> 1:17:24.479
<v Speaker 20>And yeah, I think it would be a lot of

1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:25.759
<v Speaker 20>closure for my family.

1:17:25.960 --> 1:17:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Definitely, now seems the right time to go all the

1:17:32.240 --> 1:17:35.040
<v Speaker 2>way back to the country town of Young to that

1:17:35.200 --> 1:17:39.120
<v Speaker 2>kitchen table on the Slater Reagan farm where the whole

1:17:39.240 --> 1:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>family first came together at the start of this odyssey.

1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:48.200
<v Speaker 2>After a great meal and a few drinks, Kelly went

1:17:48.240 --> 1:17:51.519
<v Speaker 2>over to the stereo and pulled out a CD by

1:17:51.600 --> 1:17:57.360
<v Speaker 2>local artist Dave Debs. Years ago, Dave wrote a song

1:17:57.479 --> 1:18:01.640
<v Speaker 2>about alf Reagan, Johnny's father. He had gotten to know

1:18:01.760 --> 1:18:04.479
<v Speaker 2>the old man when he was a teenager and never

1:18:04.560 --> 1:18:08.080
<v Speaker 2>forgot him. Penniless and living in a tin shed on

1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:13.599
<v Speaker 2>the outskirts of town. An emotional Kelly went to press

1:18:13.680 --> 1:18:15.280
<v Speaker 2>play who is this?

1:18:15.720 --> 1:18:18.920
<v Speaker 3>So this is David Debs's song Still a Pioneer off

1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:24.080
<v Speaker 3>his album Lover's Highway. So this is about Uncle Al.

1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:26.240
<v Speaker 8>And I'm not going to bubble.

1:18:27.800 --> 1:18:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Guarantee that I know.

1:18:30.360 --> 1:18:36.400
<v Speaker 3>How embarrassing. Yeah, I know, but I don't do public

1:18:36.400 --> 1:18:37.360
<v Speaker 3>displays of affection.

1:18:39.360 --> 1:18:46.920
<v Speaker 7>And it's very jail, it's very ban jail on the flatball.

1:18:47.600 --> 1:18:52.720
<v Speaker 17>When I was at school on town and you're an

1:18:52.760 --> 1:18:59.040
<v Speaker 17>old man weather Brown outside his car gates.

1:19:00.240 --> 1:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>He's still a pining.

1:19:06.200 --> 1:19:09.640
<v Speaker 21>I listened to his starvings before I was on and

1:19:10.600 --> 1:19:16.120
<v Speaker 21>a small champion movie like his only friend I covered

1:19:16.200 --> 1:19:16.439
<v Speaker 21>the way.

1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:19.920
<v Speaker 17>He still a piny.

1:19:20.760 --> 1:19:24.160
<v Speaker 2>The Gangster's Ghost is dedicated to the memory of my

1:19:24.320 --> 1:19:33.280
<v Speaker 2>old mate John Shakespeare, friend confidante, brother, a million mind.

1:19:34.200 --> 1:19:43.320
<v Speaker 21>I'm half close stories sharp Goldy's gone by, Still a pony.

1:19:52.720 --> 1:19:55.280
<v Speaker 8>Then I moved to the city and the.

1:19:55.360 --> 1:19:59.960
<v Speaker 22>Word came down and all Elf Reagan was no longer

1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:10.040
<v Speaker 22>I look less good, Telly ho Chang, look see.

1:20:09.920 --> 1:20:12.919
<v Speaker 2>You finger the spine.

1:20:13.960 --> 1:20:14.559
<v Speaker 20>What's a man?

1:20:14.920 --> 1:20:17.320
<v Speaker 22>He walked about a million b.

1:20:19.000 --> 1:20:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Clos dies shall.

1:20:22.160 --> 1:20:23.400
<v Speaker 20>Please gone on bye.

1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:40.960
<v Speaker 17>Still he's still a pie. It's still APIs still.

1:20:55.560 --> 1:20:58.040
<v Speaker 1>The Gangsters Ghost is a production of The Australian. It's

1:20:58.120 --> 1:21:01.639
<v Speaker 1>written and presented by Senior Writing Mathew Condon and edited

1:21:01.800 --> 1:21:06.000
<v Speaker 1>by Multimedia editor Leat sammagloom Our Executive producer is Me,

1:21:06.280 --> 1:21:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Editorial Director Claire Harvey. Special thanks to Lara Kamenos, Rika Rutliche,

1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Kristin Amiot, Jasper Leik, Stephanie Coombs, Sean Callanan Laughlin, Clear,

1:21:15.840 --> 1:21:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Ryan Osland, Amanda Wynn Williams, Christine Kelle, Tarren Blackhurst, Magdalena Zadak,

1:21:21.080 --> 1:21:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Jisell Boetti, Genevieve Brammel, Lauren Bruce, Sus Rolf and Dick,

1:21:25.000 --> 1:21:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Kenny Carlson. We can only do journalism like this with

1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:31.400
<v Speaker 1>the support of our subscribers, who hear episodes first and

1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:35.040
<v Speaker 1>get full access to photos, video, news stories and features,

1:21:35.360 --> 1:21:39.040
<v Speaker 1>plus all Australia's best journalism. Twenty four to seven. Join

1:21:39.160 --> 1:21:41.920
<v Speaker 1>us at Gangstersghost dot com dot au.

1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:05.960
<v Speaker 9>Son so

1:22:08.240 --> 1:22:08.280
<v Speaker 3>S