1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Oh, Tiffany and core Kai, here we are. 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 2: Good morning, good afternoon. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: Good afternoon. I've got a little bit of deja vu, 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: deja vu, deja vu going on. I feel like there's 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: something familiar about this little image I'm looking at with 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: these three heads on the screen. 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: I wasn't here at the beginning of last time, though, 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: so I've got. 9 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: No you were, but you did stumble in like a 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: piss blow halfway through the party. The first time I've 11 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: started a podcast and then you've come while the podcast 12 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: is going, while the conversations believe you let me in. Well, yeah, 13 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: well you're not. You're knocking on the virtual door. You're 14 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: being noisy. Jamie Andrews deadman, Hi mate, how are you get? 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 3: Craig, Anthony and Tiffany and how are you? It's the 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 3: three middle aies. 17 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: That's right, Anne, Andrew and Anthony. I think when there's 18 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: a constantant first like Craig or Tiffany or Jamie, like 19 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: first letter, there's invariably there's a vowel. Second name isn't there. 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 1: It's not not always, but it's pretty common. It's pretty 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: comic clear right now, and vice versa. I think about 22 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: I think about some of my friends. Now anyway, let's 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: not let's not do a show on that. Let's start 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: with Tiff, has your morning been very good? 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: But now I'm going to have to go ask chat 26 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: GPT you about the origins of consonants and vows for 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: second names. I'm going to be quite obsessed with getting 28 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: an answer on that. 29 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: Well, I just think it sounds better. But then there 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: are some like my mum is Mary Margaret Harper, right, 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: but that's very old. She's like, well, her mum was Irish, 32 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: and I think that's her name. Was my mum's mom's name? 33 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: I love this was Molly Malone? Is there a more Irish? 34 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: That's my grandmother? Is there a more Irish name in 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: the world than Molly Malone? 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: Definitely not. 37 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: I'm twelve and a halfcent Irish. Everyone there you go. 38 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: And when I went to Ireland a couple of years ago, Jamie, 39 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: you didn't come for this, but fuck it, get comfortable. 40 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: When I went to fuck it, he's wearing a grand shirt. 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: He looks Irish. I have you ever been anywhere that 42 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: you've never been before? So you go for the first 43 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: time and this is going to sound weird, but it 44 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: was so familiar to me. 45 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: I've had friends speak of this. I think it's fascinating. 46 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm not like, I'm not a weirdo, Like I'm a weirdo, 47 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: but not in that like I don't that kind of 48 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: I don't know vibe and all that. I'm like, care 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: fuck it. When I went to Ireland, I went to 50 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: this little place called Tullamore to present to speak, which 51 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: is an hour and a half or two hours out 52 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: of Dublin. And I didn't feel like I've been to 53 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: this town before because I knew I hadn't, and not 54 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: like I've met these people before, but I felt part 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: of me felt like, oh this this energy, this lang, 56 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: not this language, but this accent, this culture, these people 57 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: are very familiar. Like and I've been to maybe I 58 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: don't know, twenty plus countries. I never had that experience. 59 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: It feels like I'm in a foreign place and I'm 60 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: not with in inverted commas my people right or I'm 61 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: not around people like me. But I felt like I 62 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: belonged there. It was so interesting. 63 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: Do you reckon it changed you? Just the idea of. 64 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: That, I don't know, but I don't know why. But 65 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: I fucking love Irish people. There's something that is and 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: I'm generalizing. There's great people in every country and shit 67 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: people in every country. I'm sure, but my experiences were 68 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: like from the first day I got there and people 69 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: were like I got into tullam or I don't know 70 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: whatever day it was, and I was staying in this 71 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: hotel and people like like asking me where I'm staying. 72 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm staying in the hotel. They're like, oh, 73 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: you want to be standing there, You'll be stand with us, 74 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: like and people are telling me, no, You've got to 75 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: stay in our house, Like these are strangers that happened 76 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: more than twenty times where people went, no, just come 77 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: stay at our joint. I'm like, no, but thank you. 78 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: Just bloody, that's never happened anywhere else like that. Doesn't 79 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: you know you don't, Yeah, maybe it happens to some people. 80 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, enough digressing. Jamie Andrews Dedman Welcome officially to 81 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: the U Project for the second time in two days. 82 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: What we can tell our listeners is we did what 83 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: we started yesterday and we had a few interweb issues 84 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: and so this is take two. 85 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 3: It is thanks thanks again for having me, and yeah, 86 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 3: yesterday was I think a shitty optus issue on my end, 87 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 3: not the first time, but hopeful the last. 88 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: Well, it's all good, mate. You know, you know when 89 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: one of your biggest problems or your biggest problem for 90 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: the day's Internet connection, that your life is fucking amazing, 91 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, australed me for at least three minutes. Yeah, 92 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: that's good. Well, I'm glad you got over it, and 93 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm glad you didn't have to do therapy so I 94 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: don't need to read out something off my screen and 95 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: sound like some kind of parrot. Why don't you tell 96 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: our beautiful audience a little bit about the Jamie Stedman story, 97 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: who you are, where you grew up, and then we'll 98 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: do a deep dive because your life is interesting, your 99 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: work is interesting, and there are particular components of your 100 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: life that are very interesting. So you give us the 101 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: as much or as little as you want. Thank you, Harps. 102 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: I born and bred in regional New South I was 103 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: in Orange, have lived all over the place, spent a 104 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 3: few years overseas, funnily enough, in Ireland here and there. 105 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: My grandmother's paternal grandmother's last nme was Green, so it's 106 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 3: for shits and gigs. I have done so many jobs 107 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: it's kind of hard to list, but have found myself 108 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: now as the men's behavior change facilitator in the domestic 109 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 3: violence space, so basically perpetrated as a DV. Come across 110 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 3: my desk and we chat about ways for them to 111 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: shift their behavior. 112 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: You know, life hasn't always been simple made. 113 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: I grew up in a better say, a violent house, 114 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: drug affected where drugs were the order of the day, 115 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: in electricity and food not so much. Yeah, it wasn't 116 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: always like that, I must say. That was after my 117 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: dad had left when I was about six, My ability 118 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 3: to remember the exact days and dates kind of goes away. 119 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 3: And having since research, apparently that's a trauma thing. So 120 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 3: I didn't know I was traumatized till someone said, hey, 121 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: that is the thing, and I was like, oh. 122 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: You're right, So you know I was. 123 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 3: I went from burn, a happy, go lucky six year 124 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: old to effectively burn in charge of raising my ever 125 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: growing number of siblings half siblings to my very violent stepfather. 126 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. 127 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: A few years ago I was I was a prison 128 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: officer for quite some time and got quite ill, randomly 129 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: ended up in a coma for three months and the 130 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 3: first thing I thought of when they woke me was 131 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: I think I missed my best mate's fortieth birthday cruise. 132 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: As you do, Let's let's lean into a few of 133 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: those things. Okay, so we'll come back to the coma, 134 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: but let's start with because now you work interestingly like 135 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: you grew up in a violent household, with a violent 136 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: person in your house who was, let's be honest, probably 137 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: not a fucking great human. Correct me if I'm wrong, 138 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: And and now you are working with people who were 139 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: kind of like your stepdad, what's like, violent, abusive, intimidating, 140 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: or people who at least have been that and are 141 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: trying to be better. How did that? How did that 142 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: shape the way that you saw the world and the 143 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: way that you navigated the world, having to go home 144 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: from school or your friend's house aware and going into 145 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: that very volatile, very dangerous and very I would imagine, 146 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: terrifying environment. 147 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 3: It's funny as humans, how very quickly we can pick 148 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 3: up and learn from just the way someone walks in 149 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 3: the house, the way they talk, the way they carry themselves, 150 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 3: how they dressed. Like I knew really quickly how to 151 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: read this guy and how to just get the hell 152 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: out of the house. And of course this was lash 153 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: yeah late seven, his early eighties sort of thing. So 154 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 3: leaving the house was nothing, you just off you go. 155 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 3: You'd go and find shit to do and stumble your 156 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: way across something cool to look at for a little 157 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: while until such time as you needed to go home 158 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 3: and try and point. 159 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: How it shaped me as an adult. I guess is. 160 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 3: That empathy for those both dealing going through it and 161 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: dealing with it. And as you know have watching principle 162 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: for men's behavior changes to is we keeping women and 163 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: children safe through the behavior change of men? This is 164 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 3: a men's problem. Yeah, the space that I work in predominantly, 165 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 3: and you know, at the end of the day, if 166 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: we can just shift one thought, one time, one action, 167 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: one moment where they just halt for a sect, we 168 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: potentially a laugh. 169 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: So yes, yes, pretty big. 170 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 3: Watching your mum get I was in the car when 171 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: I was I want to say eight, I reckon, yeah, 172 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 3: and she got hit. She was sitting in the console 173 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 3: center console on the front seat because he had a 174 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: mate sitting on the other side, and this was before 175 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 3: seatbelts were Yeah, that's stuff. She got hit so hard 176 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: she ended up in the back suait wow, And as 177 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 3: an eight year old, I grabbed master father by the 178 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 3: hair and screamed at him to stop doing it, Like 179 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 3: what the hell was I thinking? This was exceriment, just 180 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: that protective instinct and then. 181 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: What did he do to you? 182 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 3: Nothing to me in that moment, but you know later 183 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: on it was pretty mandatory for him to hold us 184 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: over a well and threaten to drop us in some gigs. 185 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: So so he would hold you what you would just 186 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: lift you over the top, so you're actually hanging by 187 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: the ankle yep and side down. This grown ass man 188 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: would hold a child over an ankle over a well. Yeah, 189 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: for for for anything we got, We got in trouble 190 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: for years and too much to all the paper. 191 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: So and you know, you know he's not going to 192 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: drop in, right, but you also don't because hugely, hugely 193 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 3: volatile human. 194 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, how many brothers, sisters, step brothers, sisters, how 195 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: many kids were in the family at that stage. It 196 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: was my brother and my sister. 197 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: And she had been born to him when my brother 198 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: was with my dad, and you know, he doated on 199 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: her hand and foot, so did I. That was she was, 200 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 3: you know, she looked up to me because we were 201 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 3: effectively in charge of raising her at that stage. 202 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: So well, yeah, and how did your mum navigate all 203 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: of that? Because your mom's just this victim for years 204 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: at the hands of this. 205 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 3: Perpetrator. It's a hard thing, mate, because oh got me, Craig. Sorry, 206 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: s all right, mate. 207 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: She was an amazing mom. Yeah, oh ship till the mate. 208 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: This is why we have these chats. That's why it's real. 209 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: She just. 210 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: It was her burden to carriage. Yeah, you know, she 211 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 3: knew it wasn't ideal. She kept us alive as best 212 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 3: she could, but women just didn't. How did they fucking 213 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: get out, Craig. It was still legal to hit your 214 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: wife at that stage. We hadn't changed the law yet, 215 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 3: you know, So how do you how do you? 216 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: What a what? What the fuck message are we sending 217 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: out to those people? Yeah? You know. So mum came 218 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: from a big Italian family. 219 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 3: She moved around because she was embarrassed of where she'd 220 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 3: ended up, and that was she just protected us the 221 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: very best way she could, which was standing in front 222 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: of you. 223 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: What an amazing brave mum. Dude, No wonder that. I 224 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: don't think I would have come through that as well 225 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: as you've come through that, because I couldn't if I 226 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: had a dad who'd done that. I don't know what. 227 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, you like to think you 228 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: do this and that I'll probably do fucking nothing. I'd 229 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: probably be in therapy for my whole life. But who knows. 230 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: But I think that that's what I am doing, Craig. 231 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 3: I think that's exactly what I'm doing. 232 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was thinking like that you 233 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: working with blokes that were basically that are basically a 234 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: version of what you grew up in the middle of. 235 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: Is that apart from trying to get them to change 236 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: and change their behavior and to in turn protect our 237 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: beautiful moms and sisters and wives and whatever. Yeah? Is 238 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: that part of the recovery for you? The therapy for you? Hugely? Yeah? Massive, 239 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: It's the opportunity is not lost on me to. 240 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 3: Impress on those guys the urgency of change and how 241 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: easy it actually is to just try something a little 242 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 3: bit different. 243 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: Where did they without giving away any info that you 244 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: can't mate, how does it work? 245 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 3: Like? 246 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: How did people get court bloody ordered to come see you? 247 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: Do they? Like? I want to know because to me, 248 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: I'm and I'm sure I'm wrong, but I've I've like 249 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: I've worked, you know, I've done stuff in prisons. I've 250 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: spoken in quite a few prisons, and I've worked in 251 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: rehab an addiction with people that are court ordered you know, 252 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: treatment and and a lot of them are not too 253 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: fucking voluntary. You know, they're there because they have to be. 254 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: I don't see a whole lot of remorse, you know. 255 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 3: Interestingly, not to navigate that well, it's that discussion, isn't it. 256 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: It's that accountability. 257 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,239 Speaker 3: There are there are some guys that are court mandated 258 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 3: to be but lots few of them than you actually 259 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: would think. Most of them are referred slash recommended, so 260 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: their loyers will get them involved because it looks good 261 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 3: at court, let's be honest. 262 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: But we also don't provide them any love in that space. 263 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: There is absolutely no guarantee that completing this course will 264 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: mean anything. Yes, And that's kind of the most important 265 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: part that we speak about when it comes to letters 266 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: for court of support and all this sort of stuff, which. 267 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: We don't do a lot of. I don't. I mean 268 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: I will, but it's very very black and white. 269 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: As like Joe Bloggs has been here three times, has 270 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: engaged on. 271 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: Those dates at this time. Hmm. 272 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: Literally, it doesn't say because you know, just because it 273 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: looks like he's doing well from my perspective, it doesn't 274 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: mean shit once he leaves you. 275 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: I have a sense when I'm talking to people who 276 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, this is very different. Well, it's not totally different. 277 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: It's in the same space in that like people come 278 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: to me to talk or to be coached or mentored 279 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: or whatever because they want to change, right. There's something 280 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: about their habits or their behavior, or their thinking or 281 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: the way they do life. They want to change, right, 282 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: And obviously it's not in the space you're in, but 283 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: it's still it's people are turning up because they want 284 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: to well they say they want to change, yes, But 285 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: when I sit down with people sometimes I'm like some 286 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: not not a huge percentage, and I'm like, you do 287 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to change. You like the idea of change, 288 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: but you don't want to do the work of change, 289 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: Like you want to sit with Craig Harper and talk. 290 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: That's what you want, and you want to go I 291 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: went and spoke with this bloke or whatever. And sometimes 292 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: I not not A few times, like a lot of 293 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: times I'll see somebody and I go, there's zero I 294 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: could be wrong, but to me, there's zero chance that 295 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: this person is actually going to leave this chat, turn 296 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: their life around, turn their behaviors around, and do the 297 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: work like you must. You must deal with that on 298 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: a regular. 299 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: Oh, the bullshit radar is pretty strong, and I make 300 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 3: no bones about it. 301 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: And I. 302 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 3: Myself and my colleague where we operate very similar and 303 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 3: her voice is even more important than mine in this space. 304 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 3: But we get the guys group ready, is how we 305 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 3: turn it. And eventually you know who's hanging around to 306 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: tick a box and who isn't. And at the end 307 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: of the day, mate, we can't kick them out just 308 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 3: because they're ticking a box because what if that one 309 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: next week is where they shift into change. 310 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: So like the term that you use or that I guess, 311 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: like the almost like the job description is Men's behavior 312 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: change facilitator or whatever. Right to me, it's almost like 313 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,959 Speaker 1: I think before the behavior change needs to come thinking 314 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: change because they're thinking that it's you know, it's like, well, 315 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: the behaviors are just a consequence of how that person 316 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: thinks and chooses, right, And I know that it's all, 317 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: it's just semantics here, But like, if somebody thinks a 318 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: certain way, how do you I know, you can't make 319 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: them think differently or make them be different, but how 320 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: do you influence them in a way where you're as 321 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: much as is possible, Jamie influencing their behavior? 322 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 3: Moving forwards spoke I listened to quite a bit Harps, 323 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 3: and he has said a few things that have really 324 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 3: resonated with me over the years. And the first one 325 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 3: is always be curious. And so someone will mention to 326 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: me a thought process or where and I just say, 327 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 3: help me understand where that comes from? What were you 328 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 3: thinking prior to that? Where were you emotionally? What does 329 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 3: that look like? What you been doing leading up to it? Like, 330 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 3: you know, we're talking a lot about the potential for 331 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: drug taking and drinking and drinking huge in this space, 332 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 3: and so in those lead ups we then start talking 333 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 3: about what was she saying to you? What were you hearing? 334 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 3: Kause often the two are very different, and it just 335 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 3: leads us down a pathway of an opportunity to think differently. 336 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 3: How do you think you might do this next time? 337 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 3: What might that look like? And you do this next time? 338 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: Because you know arguments are part and parcel of relationships, 339 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 3: so so differences of opinion and thought and. 340 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: All this sort of stuff. 341 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 3: So it's it's making sure that people are just being 342 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 3: prepared to respond rather than react. Remember that there's that space, 343 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: that opportunity. 344 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: I would imagine. I would imagine that like with any 345 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: change process. You know, it's like, how do you get 346 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: in shape? While well, we don't all eat the same 347 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: food and we don't all do the same workout. How 348 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: do we change your body? How do we medicate a 349 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: particular medical condition? You know, it's like, well, there's no 350 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: like it depends like there are a lot of variables. 351 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: And while the while the common theme is domestic violence, 352 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure you could have ten different conversations about the 353 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: same issue with ten different people trying to get the 354 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: best outcome. 355 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 3: So so much mate, the differences in backgrounds, in biases, 356 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: and cultural differences in belief systems, prejudices. It's a tricky 357 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 3: space to navigate. But we simply focus on the behavior, 358 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 3: not the human as much as humanly possible. Obviously, you 359 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 3: know where we've made these guys look at. 360 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: It's empowerment too. 361 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 3: Perhaps we want those guys to understand that they're allowed 362 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 3: to be different, that the fucking man box isn't always 363 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 3: the best place to operate from, that you can step 364 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 3: outside of it quite comfortably and just do something different 365 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: to what you were taught, what you believe, what you think. 366 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: And also I guess the man box doesn't have to 367 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: look like what they think, like I think I'm a man, 368 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: but it never dawns on meta fucking hit a woman, 369 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And you know we go 370 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: so far beyond just that physical stuff, mate. 371 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 3: One of my most heartbreaking things if I hear from women, 372 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 3: there's two sentences that I that just break me in half. 373 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 3: And the first one is I wish you'd hit me 374 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 3: because it'll be easy to deal with, so that coercive control. 375 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: Wow, So they'd rather get hit because it's tangible. 376 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: Yes, And then the next one is I wish i'd 377 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 3: stayed with him, My life would be easier. What are 378 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 3: we fucking doing to people where we can't support women 379 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 3: enough now that they're comfortable enough to leave? And I 380 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 3: would say to those blokes often, I want you to 381 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: love people so hard that they feel free to to 382 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: get fucked and walk out the door safely. 383 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, it's like love is a 384 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: oh fuck, don't start me on the love conversation. Love 385 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: is fucking complicated, like love is actually to me anyway. 386 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: This is my very probably naive take, but this is 387 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: how I feel like. And I'm a selfish fuck sometimes 388 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: and I don't walk my own talk. Put up my hand. 389 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: But like, love is wanting the best thing for somebody else, 390 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: even if it's maybe momentarily the worst thing for you. 391 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 3: You know, that's that's the perfect answer, I reckon harps. 392 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: Love is for itom yeah yeah, and that edom to love, 393 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: to be loved, and to leave if you need to 394 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: tell me about I don't know if you have data 395 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: or stats on this, but what is the what are 396 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: the numbers around, or what is the evidence around the 397 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: relationship between domestic violence and booze? Is most domestic violence? 398 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: Does most of it involve booze? Half of it? 399 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: Some of it numbers? There are some numbers, nothing that 400 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: I can think of off the top of my head. 401 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: All I can tell you is I've got a list 402 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: of currently sixty plus blokes, fifty five of which would 403 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 3: be our coal related incidences. 404 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: Right, So we're looking at like over ninety percent have 405 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: got to do with booze. And what about I mean, 406 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: I know I'm asking. By the way, everyone, everything we're 407 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: saying today, none of it is a recommendation or a prescription. 408 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 1: This is just Harps and Jamie and periodically tiff Ti 409 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: if I know you're passionate about this, so feel free 410 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: to jump in ask a question or add what about 411 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: people that are just sociopaths, mate psychopaths, charismatic charming psychopaths 412 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: who just know how to be, They know how to play, 413 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: they know how to play people they know how to 414 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: because some people who do this are also charismatic, charming, 415 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 1: and depending on the setting, quite likable and often good looking, 416 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: like fucking terrible humans. 417 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 3: I get, I earn an ex prison officer, I can 418 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 3: sense the manipulation quite quickly. But these most men in 419 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 3: this space are master manipulators. They have been doing it 420 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: for so so long that it's outrageous that finally been caught, 421 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,479 Speaker 3: so to speak, or whatever the case may be. And 422 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: when they come in here, there's a level of that 423 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 3: that that jumps out at your pretty quick. The you know, 424 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 3: the charm, and I actually get on with most of 425 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 3: these guys quite easily. They're not not inviting them around 426 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 3: for a barbecue, but you know that they're just blokes 427 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: at the end of the day. Who who I get 428 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 3: an opportunity to talk to, pull them apart, challenge them 429 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: and hopefully get them to just use one of the tools, 430 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 3: just take one for a test run and see if 431 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 3: it works. 432 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: Do you ever do you ever have a moment with 433 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: somebody where it's like there's a there's a real genuine breakthrough, 434 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: not just some kind of not lip service. You know, 435 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: there's not there's tears, there's fucking there's a breakdown, and 436 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, well as much as you can know, you're like, no, 437 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: this is this is there's something going on here which 438 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: is good. You can you can almost it's almost a vibe. 439 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 3: You know when you've you know, when you've broken through 440 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: the wall. I've got a cool little story. And this 441 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 3: is not going to mean a lot to a lot 442 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 3: of people from a change perspective, But I've got a 443 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 3: young Aboriginal fellaw in our group, and he's quiet. He's 444 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: not had any male role models whatsoever. He's only a 445 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 3: young fella. He's seemingly quite desperate to shift Every now 446 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 3: and again, he speaks up and it's the most amazing 447 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 3: thing that drops out of you that you can get. 448 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: A couple of weeks ago, it's bucketing rains. It was 449 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: still kind of you know, winter ishan orange and orange 450 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 3: is a cold place. 451 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: This guy had been. 452 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 3: Arguing raowing was his term with his girl all day, 453 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: going at it all day, low socio economic chat, good, good, good. 454 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 3: Young fellow just doesn't know any better. And he walked 455 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 3: all the way down here in the rain. So when 456 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 3: he come in literally to Tommy, he couldn't do group 457 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 3: because he wasn't feeling very good. We had to have 458 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: a suicide discussion and all this sort of stuff as well. 459 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: This is all while I'm trying to run group or 460 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: get group started. 461 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 3: Literally, so he could come down and Tommy couldn't do group, 462 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 3: so he could walk home again. And that was him 463 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 3: leaving to keep her safe. Wow, And it's not an 464 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: option he'd ever considered using previously. Right, it's a that 465 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 3: is a massive, massive breakthrough, and not a lot of 466 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: people are going to understand how big a deal that is, 467 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 3: but for him it's so far removed from his normal. 468 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: I was so impressed, so proud, so just wrapped in 469 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 3: in that because change looks different to everyone. 470 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: How many people Jamie who perpetrayed domestic violence grew up 471 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: in it? Is it the greater percentage? Like we don't 472 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: generally get that stat, Craig. We it comes out. 473 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 3: As part of the discussion more or less than the 474 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: one on one stuff for a lot of them. 475 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: But you're both surprised how few really? 476 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 3: That actually concerns me, to be honest, because now to 477 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: behavior you've chosen instead of one you actually grew up with, which. 478 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: Is is there more of it? Less of it? The 479 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: same have we got? Is there just more a awareness 480 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: and attention which there should be. 481 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 3: I think all of the above made I think that 482 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,719 Speaker 3: with women in particular, are finally starting to understand what 483 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: a dovair relationship is from an empowerment perspective, which is great, 484 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: and of course as they start to speak up, then 485 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 3: we start to act hopefully, and of course unfortunately, if 486 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 3: you look what's the numbers today, ninety three women ninety 487 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 3: three made it went up one overnight, So we're at 488 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: one point nine per week, nearly two women a week 489 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 3: being killed while someone they know, someone they love, someone 490 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 3: they're supposed. 491 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: To be in love with. Them. 492 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,479 Speaker 3: Now, this is a horrific stat and it keeps going up, 493 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 3: and unfortunately, I think, and I don't know, people will 494 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 3: push back and get cranky. But the more the women 495 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: speak up, the more the douchebags are going to fucking 496 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 3: do their because now they're being challenged, Now they're being embarrassed, 497 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: now they're being shamed. 498 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: So I mean again, remember everyone, this is I'm genuinely 499 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: It's not an area I know a lot about. I'm 500 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: curious and so if my questions are not the best questions, 501 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: it's because I'm kind of finding my way. I feel 502 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: like it's a catch twenty two for ladies because if 503 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: they speak up, they get in trouble. If they don't 504 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: speak up, their life, shit do they do they? I 505 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: feel like you've almost got to create your own escape 506 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: plan and then just push the button like wolf. Some 507 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: women anyway, maybe not all, But. 508 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 3: I don't want to speak to how difficult, how crazy 509 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: it must be toleleief under that fucking number. I'll be 510 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 3: walking around on eggshells to finally speak out until the 511 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 3: bloke this isn't how you treat people or whatever, and 512 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 3: then for them to for their actions to then increase 513 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 3: rather than decrease what. You know, how how horrifically difficult 514 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 3: that must be for women. You know, they're trying to 515 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 3: keep their kids safe, they're trying to put food on 516 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 3: the table. The blokes withholding money or he spent it 517 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 3: all on his fucking flash motorbike or just so much 518 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: genuine douchebaggery out there that it's it's mind blowing, and 519 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 3: I you know, it may be a matter of time. 520 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 3: There's all those blugs forgetting that women give birth to us, 521 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 3: keep treating the mark us, and that's going to stop. 522 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: I should have asked you this before. But who do 523 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: you work for? Like, who pays for all this? It's 524 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: an n g O. 525 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: I don't want to because it's a bit too opinionated, 526 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 3: so I don't want them to getting all sad. The 527 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: toughest part about all this made is the regulation and 528 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 3: the stuff we have to do to just tick boxes 529 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 3: to keep getting paid. The government says, oh, we're going 530 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 3: to give you heaps of money, but we don't fucking 531 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 3: see any of it, and it's stupid. I've got there's 532 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 3: literally three of us in my team. I've got six. 533 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 3: There's sixty five blokes. We are trying to put through 534 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: groups that happen every ten weeks. I could run a 535 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 3: group every night, and that's unfortunates that in. 536 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: And of itself, right, M. 537 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 3: But the two girls in the team, you know, my coacilitator, 538 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: her voice is huge in this space. It's when she speaks, 539 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 3: there's a there's a lot of modeling that has to 540 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 3: go on, Like I have to make sure I give 541 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 3: her the room and I give. 542 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Her the respect, and I give her the space. And 543 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: because the. 544 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 3: Blokes think like some think less of women, and that's 545 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 3: just how I am. So if I can be, I 546 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 3: need to model the behavior I believe in make sure 547 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 3: I'm practicing all that. And my other colleague, in my mind, 548 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 3: she's got the hardest job. She is what we call 549 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 3: the family safety worker. So it's her job to be 550 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: ringing the ex partners current partners and offer them support 551 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: and you know whatever that looks like even an escape 552 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 3: plane if if the risk is severe enough. So what 553 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 3: she does is phenomenal, mate, And you know, all on 554 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 3: a shoestring, as pretty much everyone does. 555 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think any of you are in it 556 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: for the doughmate, No, No, I would do it for free. Harps. 557 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: Just don't tell him I said that. 558 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and what about what about you, like you're 559 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 4: dealing with I know that your intentions are good and 560 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 4: you're doing good work, but it's a it's an almost 561 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 4: overwhelming challenge, right because, like you said, you could be 562 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 4: doing way more stuff, but you don't have the manpower. 563 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: The resources. How do you because I feel there's probably 564 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: a bit of PTSD just you know, into your back 565 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: as you navigate this, how do you? And then when 566 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: I talk to your mum, clearly that's all very close 567 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: to the surface and raw. How do you manage you? 568 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: How do you? How do you? You know, we all 569 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: have our peaks and trust, but how do you? How 570 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: do you protect you while still doing what you need 571 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: to do. 572 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 3: It's not always easy, mate. Sometimes I'm not a great dad. 573 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm not a great friend or a great partner. 574 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 3: But what I've done is empower those closest to me 575 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 3: to call me out because sometimes I don't see it. 576 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 3: So yeah, given permission to say, hey, this is different 577 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 3: to your normal. 578 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: The other stuff is paying attention to what I call 579 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: burnon circle. 580 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 3: I hate when people say I'm on path because path 581 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,919 Speaker 3: has like a starting point and the finish point. 582 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: So I like it. Yeah, yeah, anyway. 583 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 3: I so the gym coffee connection my big three if 584 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 3: any of those slipped for too long. 585 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: So so what about I'm thinking about the ability some 586 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: men have to have like bullshitty man conversations that are 587 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: not very uplifting for women. What if you find yourself 588 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: you know where some guys are And by the way, 589 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: I think that goes both ways. I've had a lot 590 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: of conversations with wives who run their husbands down in 591 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: the gym, but we're not talking about that. That's a 592 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: different thing. 593 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 3: So that is a different thing I want to I 594 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 3: want to touch on that hYP So someone having a 595 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 3: conversation with you and running their partner down, that's a 596 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 3: connection thing. That's freedom, that is. But me and you're 597 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 3: sitting at the pub bonding by. 598 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: Othering women, Yeah, is kind of disgusting. Shit. 599 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 3: Yes, have I done it, absolutely because I'm old and 600 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 3: it was a normal thing to do. 601 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: Once upon a time. 602 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 3: But for whatever reason, I grew up and I can 603 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 3: actually remember the exact moment a bloke simply didn't indulge 604 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 3: in the bullshit that was going on at the table, 605 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 3: and I noticed, and I asked him any. 606 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: Yes. 607 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 3: And so that's my big challenge for all blokes right 608 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 3: now is I don't expect you to call out the 609 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 3: bullshit if you're not comfortable enough to do it right, 610 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 3: because it might be you a punch in the mouth. 611 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: Not everyone wants one. 612 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, but your other obligation is very simple. You simply 613 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 3: have to do nothing. Just don't indulge. If you're comfortable enough, 614 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 3: turn you back, get up and walk away, because what 615 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 3: you're doing in that moment is saying to the other 616 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 3: guys at the table, I'm not doing this shit. And 617 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 3: someone in there is watching you, somebody's going to come and. 618 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: Question you, and there's an opportunity for growth and empowerment. Yeah. 619 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how we have these cool conversations. I just 620 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 3: get in this space. Harp's. One of the most frustrating 621 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 3: thing I see is when I go to rallies or gatherings, 622 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 3: it's always women, but men and ones telling me that 623 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 3: they support this stuff, that they love their women. 624 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well, where the fuck are you? 625 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 3: Yes, you don't have to do anything, just go to 626 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 3: the thing out. 627 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, a little bit so foxy, No, No, I 628 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: fucking love it. Mate, Well, clearly, it's like this is 629 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: your passion and your purpose, and so if you weren't 630 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: this emotional, I would be disappointed or I would be surprised, 631 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: right because this is but now anyway, maybe forever, but 632 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: this is why you're here, it seems. Is there are 633 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: there any like programs that are research based, evidence based, 634 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: like programs designed and implemented to deal with, you know, 635 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,240 Speaker 1: domestic violence, Like here's here's a program that's been designed 636 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: to take men through this or is that not available. 637 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's necessarily any better than what you do, 638 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: but I'm just saying it's like with every other fucking thing, 639 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: we've got some evidence based kind of protocol or operating 640 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: system or treatment option or strategy to deal with these things. 641 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: What about this? 642 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 3: Yes, in the short term, but once again, the problem 643 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 3: with challenging humans to change is lip service. 644 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: Right. The evidence based stuff is that if you adopt this, 645 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,280 Speaker 1: we know it will work. 646 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 3: Yes, right, same as push ups. If you stop watching 647 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 3: others do them, you'll get better at it if you. 648 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: Do If you start doing them, Yeah, it's amazing. 649 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 3: So, like all things, unless you're actually willing to implement 650 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 3: and lean into the hard stuff. 651 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, change just won't happen. Yeah. So you've got lots 652 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: of people listening. Now, you've got lots of men, You've 653 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: got lots of wo And what do people? I don't know. 654 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: I didn't prep you for this, and it doesn't need 655 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: to be particularly elegant or eloquent. What do you? Yeah, 656 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: come on, get your eloquent on. If you could see him, 657 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: everybody's about as eloquence as me. So what do you 658 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: what would you love to share with people? Because there 659 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: are going to be people listening to this who are 660 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: like this is maybe hopefully there's a few a few 661 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: men who maybe need to hear this and recognize a 662 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: little bit of themselves in what you're saying and need 663 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: to go fuck, I need to pull my head in 664 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: and watch myself or maybe own up and step up. 665 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: Or there might be women that need support or help, Like, 666 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: what do you want to say to both of those groups? 667 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 3: The biggest thing is to get yourself educated in what 668 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 3: abuse constitutes, what constitutes abuse? 669 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 1: So there are there's a list halps. 670 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 3: I can promise you if I spoke one on one 671 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 3: with every man in my town, most of them would 672 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 3: look at this list. At some days and go shit. 673 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 3: I am guilty of some of these right now. The 674 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 3: other side of that coin, of course, is the women 675 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 3: not knowing that, fluck me, I'm actually in this relationship. 676 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 3: So it would be simply educating yourself and be willing 677 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 3: to have those discussions with each other. Of the issues 678 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 3: we face as couples is through poor communication, through difficult 679 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 3: conversations had well and just scheduling that in how's to day? 680 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 3: What's going on for you? What's happening in your world? 681 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: You know, asking the kids what went well today? What 682 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 3: can we do better next time? What do you need 683 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 3: from me as a dad? Like actually fucking empower them 684 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 3: to put you in their lives now. I hate the 685 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 3: fact that I work in the harm minimization space. I 686 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 3: want to work in harm prevention, and I would imagine 687 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 3: that most people in this environment want to. We need 688 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 3: to be having really tough conversations with ten eleven to 689 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 3: twelve year old kids. Yeah, we need to show them. 690 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 3: Hey girls, here's a list of ship for you never 691 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 3: to put up with. Hey boys, here's a list of 692 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 3: stuff you need to never do. Yes, guess what those 693 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 3: lists look exactly. 694 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: I wonder that that I've never thought of that, Like, 695 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: I've never thought of opening that door on young young 696 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: women or young girls and young boys. And because it 697 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: seems like, oh, this is not something that children need 698 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 1: to learn about. Absolutely, maybe they do. Maybe the language halts. 699 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: All of this stuff is in the language, mate. 700 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 3: The more we allow our little boys to talk shit 701 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 3: about girls, yeah, the more we don't say. 702 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,399 Speaker 1: Hey, that's not how you do this. Yeah, the more 703 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: we don't pull them up. 704 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,720 Speaker 3: You know, there's a there's a few pretty powerful little 705 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 3: programs that are run in schools, but they kind of 706 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 3: bounce around the subject. 707 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: Right, kids are tougher and. 708 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 3: More able to deal with this ship than ever before 709 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 3: at any other time on this planet. Right, they know 710 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 3: some stuff. Most of them are probably doing things that 711 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 3: I'd be afraid to try. Yeah, But if we don't, 712 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 3: if we don't empower them now to have those hard 713 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,399 Speaker 3: conversations to recognize right and wrong, then my job is just. 714 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: Going to keep getting harder and harder. And I want that. 715 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: I've got a tricky I've got a tricky question for 716 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,879 Speaker 1: you again. So another one. So I've got a hypothetical. 717 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, this is a hypothetical. I'm not 718 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: talking about someone that don't try and figure it out. Okay. 719 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: So I know a couple and from the outside looking 720 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: and it's kind of, you know, works like there's this 721 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: public version of the relationship which is okay, but behind 722 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: closed doors that's not the case at all. And the 723 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: dude is very controlling and very strong and very you 724 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: know whatever fill in the blank, and the female is 725 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: the opposite of that. And I'm an outside observer and 726 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: I know that if I try to do anything that 727 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: won't work well, if I try to talk to him, 728 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: he'll deny it, potentially get aggressive. And I know there's 729 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: no simple answer to this, but I think all of 730 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: us probably know someone or someone's where there's a version 731 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: of that going on. What like you don't want to 732 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: do nothing, but you don't want to throw a match 733 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: on it. 734 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 3: This is a really, really tough situation and I can't 735 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 3: speak for everyone. What I would do is get educated, 736 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,720 Speaker 3: go speak to there's DVO specialists at the place, there's 737 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 3: relationship advice you can get online through Relationships Australia. Know 738 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 3: what you can do, what you can't do, what you 739 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 3: can and can't get away with. 740 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,319 Speaker 1: There are you know for those two that might be 741 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: how they do life. 742 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it does not mean that you can't raise 743 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 3: a question and hey, you have to be prepared to 744 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 3: lose a friend to save a life. 745 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, wow. If people want to get if 746 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: people want to support this kind of work or even 747 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,760 Speaker 1: do this kind of work, which is it's tough work, 748 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: or people want to support you, or how do people 749 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 1: how do people get involved? If somebody's got an interest 750 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: in whatever this, they've got a psych background or a 751 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: counseling back ground, or they want to do some kind 752 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: of certification where they can get involved and work in 753 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: their space and help. I mean, this is a multifaceted issue. 754 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: This is not a three step solution, and this is 755 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: you know, there are so many parts to this, so 756 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,919 Speaker 1: there's no quick fix. But what do we need? Who 757 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: do we need? Apart from funding which is the obvious one, 758 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: but can people get involved to do what you do? 759 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: I still don't know how I landed here, HAPs, so 760 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: that's a tough question. I think. 761 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 3: There's an organization called MTV Note of Violence and they 762 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 3: are our overarching body, and that would be the first 763 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 3: step I would expect. And there are unfortunately a lot 764 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 3: of opportunities to work in the domestic violence space variously 765 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 3: currently in this country, where going through what we call 766 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 3: sixteen days of activism, and of course, as I said previously, 767 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 3: just fucking show up, yeah, talking about it, start doing it. 768 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 1: Waste no more time talking about what a good man is. 769 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,279 Speaker 1: We won. I was sharing this. I think I was 770 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: sharing with Tiff and some I don't know. I do 771 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts, mine and others, so some weeks 772 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: I do like ten or eleven podcasts, including seven of 773 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: my own. But I think I was talking to you yesterday, Tiff, 774 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: or the day before. A couple of months ago, I 775 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: ran a workshop in Hampton, Mate, just down the road, 776 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: and it was a small group. And I apologize to 777 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 1: my listeners who heard this story. But one of the 778 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: ladies in the group it was five hours, but one 779 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: of the ladies in the group, you know, we're all 780 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: kind of interacting, and she goes, my ex husband hates you, 781 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: like hates me, right, And I'm like, that's not the 782 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: smallest group. There's a few husbands and ex husbands and 783 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: boyfriends who hate me. Right. I'm like, I'm okay with that. 784 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: And I said, well, when did like when did he 785 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: and I intersect? Where did I meet him? And she goes, oh, 786 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,840 Speaker 1: he's never met you. I went what she goes, He 787 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: doesn't know you, he's never met you, he's never listened 788 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: to a conversation of podcasts, nothing, but he thinks that 789 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: you're the reason that we broke up, right, So the 790 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,319 Speaker 1: reason his marriage was destroyed was because of me. 791 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 5: I'm like, Wow, how fucking delusion was that bloke? How 792 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 5: much how arrogant and self righteous are you when you 793 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,880 Speaker 5: think that somebody that you've never met or had a 794 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 5: conversation with you is that the reason that your marriage 795 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 5: your marriage didn't work. 796 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 3: I'm like, it's amazing how many guys don't he what 797 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 3: the women are asking of them or telling them or 798 00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 3: explaining to them. And eventually, you know, they either get 799 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 3: sick of saying it, whether they say it a different 800 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 3: way by leaving or by yelling, and just so many 801 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 3: different ways. And what we do know is the girls 802 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 3: are telling us. The women are speaking right to us. 803 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 3: They tell us exactly what they want. We just don't listen. 804 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 3: And in this most case, really was not listening until 805 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 3: he decided that it. 806 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: Was all you. Yeah, fucking Craig Harper effect, Hey, mate, 807 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,240 Speaker 1: you're a gun. We didn't even talk about your coma. 808 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: We'll do that next time, if there's the next time. 809 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: But how do people connect with you or learn more 810 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 1: or what do you want to and where do you 811 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: want to direct people towards? If anything. 812 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 3: I do have a website Jamie Stebben dot net. It 813 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 3: is it needs updating. It's probably the easiest way. Or 814 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 3: just email me on Jamie Steado at gmail dot com. 815 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: I don't know Jamie. Jamie Steado at gmail dot comedy's 816 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:03,919 Speaker 1: home address, everyone is number seven. All right, it's been 817 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: We got through it. No internet problems today, so that 818 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:07,320 Speaker 1: was nice. 819 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 3: Thank you, and it went a different way again, which 820 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 3: was really cool. 821 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 1: So buddy, we'll say we'll say goodbye off here. But 822 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: for the moment, mate, we appreciate you being on the 823 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: new project Tiff for you. 824 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:25,320 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, thank you, Thanks Jamie cool, Thanks everyone. 825 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:26,240 Speaker 1: Thanks course