1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Oh, Tiffany and core Kai. Here we are. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 2: Good morning, good afternoon. 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 3: Good afternoon. 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: I've got a little bit of deja vu, deja vu, 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: deja vu going on. I feel like there's something familiar 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: about this little image I'm looking at with these three 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: heads on the screen. 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 2: I wasn't here at the beginning of last time, though, 9 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: so I've got. 10 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: No but you did stumble in like a piss blow 11 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: halfway through the party. The first time I've started a podcast, 12 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: and then you've come while the podcast is going, while 13 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: the conversation is lave you let me in. Well, yeah, 14 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: well you're not. You're knocking on the virtual door. You're 15 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: being noisy. Jamie Andrews deadman, Hi mate, how are you? 16 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 3: Craig, Anthony and Tiffany and how are you? It's the 17 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 3: three middle a'es. 18 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: That's right, Anne, Andrew and Anthony. I think when there's 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: a constantint first like Craig or Tiffany or Jamie, like 20 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: first letter, there's invariably there's a vowel. Second name isn't there. 21 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: It's not not always, but it's pretty common. It's pretty 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: comic clear right now, and vice versa. I think about 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: I think about some of my friends. Now anyway, let's 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: not let's not do a show on that. Let's start 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: with Tiff, has your morning been very good? 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 2: But now I'm going to have to go ask chat 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: GPT you about the origins of consonants and vows for 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: second names. I'm going to be quite obsessed with getting 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: an answer on that. 30 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: Well, I just think it sounds better. But then there 31 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: are some like my mum is Mary Margaret Harper, right, 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: but that's very old. She's like, well, her mum was Irish, 33 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: and I think that's her name. Was my mum's mom's name? 34 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: I love this was Molly Malone? Is there a more Irish? 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: That's my grandmother? Is there a more Irish name in 36 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: the world than Molly Malone? 37 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: Definitely not. 38 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: I'm twelve and a halfcent Irish. Everyone there you go. 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: And when I went to Ireland a couple of years ago, Jamie, 40 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: you didn't come for this, but fuck it, get comfortable. 41 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: When I went to fuck it, he's wearing a grand shirt. 42 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: He looks Irish. I have you ever been anywhere that 43 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: you've never been before? So you go for the first 44 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: time and this is going to sound weird, but it 45 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: was so familiar to me. 46 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: I've had friends speak of this. I think it's fascinating. 47 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: I'm not like, I'm not a weirdo, Like I'm a weirdo, 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: but not in that like I don't that kind of 49 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: I don't know vibe and all that. I'm like, yeah, 50 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: fuck it. When I went to Ireland, I went to 51 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: this little place called Tullamore to present to speak, which 52 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: is an hour and a half or two hours out 53 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: of Dublin. And I didn't feel like I've been to 54 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: this town before because I knew I hadn't, and not 55 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: like I've met these people before, but I felt part 56 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: of me felt like, oh this this energy, this lang, 57 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: not this language, but this accent, this culture, these people 58 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: are very like. And I've been to maybe I don't know, 59 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: twenty plus countries. I never had that experience. It feels 60 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: like I'm in a foreign place and I'm not with 61 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: in inverted commas my people right or I'm not around 62 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: people like me. But I felt like I belonged there. 63 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: It was so interesting. 64 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: Do you reckon it changed you? Just the idea of 65 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: that lean I. 66 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: Don't know, but I don't know why, But I fucking 67 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: love Irish people. There's something that is and I'm generalizing. 68 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: There's great people in every country and shit people in 69 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: every country. I'm sure, but my experiences were like from 70 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: the first day I got there and people were like, 71 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: I got into Tullamore, I don't know whatever day it was, 72 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: and I was staying in this hotel and people like 73 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: like asking me where I'm staying. I'm like, I'm staying 74 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: in the hotel. They're like, oh, you won't be standing there, 75 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: You'll be standing with us, like and people are telling me, no, 76 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: You've got to stay in our house, Like these are 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: strangers that happened more than twenty times where people went, no, 78 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: just come stay at our joint. I'm like, no, but 79 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: thank you. Just bloody, that's never happened anywhere else like that. 80 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: Doesn't you know you don't, Yeah, maybe it happens to 81 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: some people. But anyway, enough digressing. Jamie Andrews Deadman Welcome 82 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: officially to the U Project for the second time in 83 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: two days. What we can tell our listeners is we 84 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: did what we started yesterday and we had a few 85 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: interweb issues and so this is take two. 86 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 3: It is thanks thanks again for having me, and yeah, 87 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 3: yesterday was I think a shitty optus issue on my end, 88 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: not the first time, but hopefully the last. 89 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: Well, it's all good, mate. You know, you know when 90 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: one of your biggest problems, or your biggest problem for 91 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: the day is internet connection, that your life is fucking amazing. 92 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 3: You know, australed me for at least three minutes. 93 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. Well, I'm glad you got over it, 94 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: and I'm glad you didn't have to do therapy so 95 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: I don't need to read out something off my screen 96 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: and sound like some kind of parrot. Why don't you 97 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: tell our beautiful audience a little bit about the Jamie 98 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: Steadman story, who you are, where you grew up, and 99 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: then we'll do a deep dive because your life is interesting, 100 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: your work is interesting, and there are particular components of 101 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: your life that are very interesting. So you give us 102 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: the as much or as little as you want. 103 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: Thank you, Harps. I born and bred in regional New 104 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 3: South I was in Orange, have lived all over the place, 105 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: spent a few years overseas, funnily enough, in Ireland here 106 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 3: and there. My grandmother's paternal grandmother's last name was Green, 107 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 3: so it's for shits and kings. I have done so 108 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: many jobs it's kind of hard to list, but have 109 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: found myself now as the men's behavior change facilitator in 110 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: the domestic violence space, so basically perpetrated as a DV. 111 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: Come across my desk and we chat about ways for 112 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 3: them to shift their behavior. You know, life hasn't always 113 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 3: been simple made. I grew up in a better say, 114 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 3: a violent house, drug affected where drugs were the order 115 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: of the day, in electricity and food not so much. Yeah, 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: it wasn't always like that. I must say. That was 117 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 3: after my dad had left when I was about six, 118 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 3: My ability to remember the exact days and dates kind 119 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 3: of goes away. And having since research so apparently that's 120 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 3: a trauma thing. So I didn't know I was traumatized 121 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 3: till someone said, hey, that is the thing, and I 122 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 3: was like, oh right, So you know I was. I 123 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 3: went from burn, a happy, go lucky six year old 124 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 3: to effectively burn in charge of raising my ever growing 125 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: number of siblings half siblings to my very violent stepfather. Yeah, 126 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: that's it. A few years ago I was I was 127 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: a prison officer for quite some time and got quite ill, 128 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: randomly ended up in a coma for three months, and 129 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: the first thing I thought of when they woke me, 130 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: was I think I missed my best mate's fortieth birthday 131 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: cruise as you do. 132 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: Let's let's lean into a few of those things. Okay, 133 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: so we'll come back to the coma, but let's start 134 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: with because now you work interestingly like you grew up 135 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: in a violent household, with a violent person in your 136 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: house who was, let's be honest, probably not a fucking 137 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: great human. Correct me if I'm wrong, And and now 138 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: you are working with people who were kind of like 139 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: your stepdad, what's like, violent, abusive, intimidating, or people who 140 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: at least have been that and are trying to be better. 141 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: How did that? How did that shape the way that 142 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: you saw the world and the way that you navigated 143 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: the world, having to go home from school or your 144 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: friend's house aware and going into that very volatile, very 145 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: dangerous and very I would imagine, terrifying environment. 146 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 3: It's funny as humans, how very quickly we can pick 147 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 3: up and learn from just the way someone walks in 148 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: the house, the way they talk, the way they carry themselves, 149 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: how they dress. Like I knew really quickly how to 150 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: read this guy and how to just get the hell 151 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: out of the house, and of course this was Lates. 152 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Lates of his early eighties sort of things. 153 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 3: So leaving the house was nothing, you just off you go. 154 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: You'd go and find shit to do and stumble your 155 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 3: way across something cool to look at for a little 156 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: while until such time as you needed to go home 157 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 3: and try and point how it shaped me as an adult. 158 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: I guess is that empathy for those both dealing going 159 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: through it and dealing with it. And as you know, 160 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 3: over watching, principle for men's behavior changes to is we 161 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 3: keeping women and children safe through the behavior change of men? 162 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 3: This is a men's problem. Yeah, the space that I 163 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 3: work in predominantly, and you know, at the end of 164 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 3: the day, if we can just shift one thought, one time, 165 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: one action, one moment where they just halt for a 166 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 3: sac we potentially say a laugh. So yes, yes, pretty big. 167 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 3: Watching your mum get I was in the car when 168 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: I was I want to say eight, I reckon, yeah, 169 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 3: and she got hit. She was sitting in the console 170 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: center console on the front seat because he had a 171 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 3: mate sitting on the other side, and this was before 172 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 3: seat belts were Yeah, that's the stuff. She got hit 173 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: so hard she ended up in the back suait. Wow, 174 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 3: And as an eight year old, I grabbed master Father 175 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 3: by the hair and screamed at him to stop doing it, 176 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: Like what the hell was I thinking? This was excery me, 177 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: just that protective instinct and. 178 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: Then what did he do to you? 179 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: Nothing to me in that moment, but you know later 180 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 3: on it was pretty mandatory for him to hold us 181 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 3: over a well and threaten to drop us in some gigs. 182 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 3: So so he would hold you what you would just 183 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: lift you over the top, so you're. 184 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: Actually hanging by the ankle yep, and upside down. This 185 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: grown ass man would hold a child over an ankle 186 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: over a well. 187 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, for for for anything we got. We got in 188 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: trouble for years and too much to all of paper. 189 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 3: So and you know, you know he's not going to 190 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 3: drop you in, right, but you also don't because hugely, 191 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: hugely volatile human. Yeah. 192 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: So, how many brothers, sisters, step brothers, sisters, how many 193 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: kids were in the family. 194 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: At that stage. It was my brother and my sister 195 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: and she had been born to him when my brother 196 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 3: was with my dad, and you know, he doated on 197 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 3: her hand and foot, so did I. That was she 198 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: was you know, she looked up to me because we 199 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: were effectively in charge of raising her at that stage. 200 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: So well, yeah, and how did your mum navigate all 201 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: of that? Because your mom's just this victim for years 202 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,239 Speaker 1: at the hands of this well honest perpetrator. 203 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 3: It's a hard thing, mate, because oh got me, Craig. Sorry, sorry, mate. 204 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: She was an amazing mom. Yeah, ship till the mate. 205 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: This is why we have these chats. That's why it's real. 206 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: She just it was her burden to carriage. Yeah, you know, 207 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 3: she knew it wasn't ideal. She kept us alive as 208 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: best she could, but women just didn't. How did they 209 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: fucking get out, Craig. It was still legal to hit 210 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: your wife at that stage. We hadn't changed the law yet, 211 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: you know, So how do you how do you what 212 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 3: a what? What the fucking message are we sending out 213 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 3: to those people? Yeah? You know, so mum came from 214 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 3: a big Italian family. She moved around because she was 215 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: embarrassed of where she'd ended up, and that was she 216 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: just protected us the very best way she could, which 217 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 3: was standing in front of you. What an amazing brave mum. 218 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: Dude, No wonder that I don't think I would have 219 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: come through that as well as you've come through that, 220 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: because I couldn't if I had a dad who'd done that. 221 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what. 222 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: I don't know. 223 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: You know, you like to think you do this and 224 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: that I'll probably do fucking nothing. I'd probably be in 225 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: therapy for my whole life. But who knows. But I 226 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: think that's what I am doing, Craig. I think that's 227 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: exactly what I'm doing my tea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 228 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: I was thinking like that, you working with blokes that 229 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: were basically that are basically a version of what you 230 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: grew up in the middle of. Is that apart from 231 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: trying to get them to change and change their behavior 232 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: and to in turn protect our beautiful moms and sisters 233 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: and wives and whatever. 234 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? 235 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: Is that part of the recovery for you? 236 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: The therapy for you hugely? Yeahs it's the opportunity is 237 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: not lost on me to impress on those guys the 238 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 3: urgency of change and how easy it actually is to 239 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: just try something a little bit different. 240 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: Where did they without giving away any info that you 241 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: can't mate, how does it work? Like? How did people 242 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: get court bloody ordered to come see you? 243 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 3: Do they? Like I want to. 244 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: Know because to me, I'm and I'm sure I'm wrong. 245 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: But I've like I've worked, you know, I've done stuff 246 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: in prisons. I've spoken in quite a few prisons, and 247 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: I've worked in rehab an addiction with people that are 248 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: court ordered you know, treatment, and and a lot of 249 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: them are not too fucking voluntary. You know, they're there 250 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: because they have to be. I don't see a whole 251 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: lot of remorse, you know, interestingly not navigate that well, 252 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: it's that discussion, isn't it. 253 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: It's that accountability. There are there are some guys that 254 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 3: are court mandated to be but lots fewer them than 255 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 3: you actually would think. Most of them are referred slash recommended, 256 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: so their loyers will get him involved because it looks 257 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: good at court, let's be honest. But we also don't 258 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: provide them any love in that space. There is absolutely 259 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: no guarantee that completing this course will mean anything. Yes, 260 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 3: and that's kind of the most important part that we 261 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: speak about when it comes to let us for court 262 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: of support and all this sort of stuff, which we 263 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 3: don't do a lot of. I don't. I mean I will, 264 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: but it's very very black and white, as like Joe 265 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 3: Bloggs has been here three times, has engaged on those 266 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 3: dates at this time. Hm. Literally, it doesn't say because 267 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 3: you know, just because it looks like he's doing well 268 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: from my perspective, it doesn't mean shit once he leaves you. 269 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: I have a sense when I'm talking to people who 270 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, this is very different. Well, it's not totally different. 271 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: It's in the same space in that like people come 272 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: to me to talk or to be coached or mentored 273 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: or whatever because they want to change. 274 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 3: Right. 275 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: There's something about their habits or their behavior, or their 276 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: thinking or the way they do life they want to change, right, 277 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: And obviously it's not in the space you're in, but 278 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: it's still it's people are turning up because they want 279 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: to well they say they want to change, yes, But 280 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: when I sit down with people sometimes I'm like some 281 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: not not a huge percentage, and I'm like, you don't 282 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: you don't want to change. You like the idea of change, 283 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: but you don't want to do the work of change. 284 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: Like you want to sit with Craig Harper and talk. 285 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: That's what you want, and you want to go I 286 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: went and spoke with this bloke or whatever. And sometimes 287 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: I not a few times, Like a lot of times, 288 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: I'll see somebody and I go, there's zero I could 289 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: be wrong, but to me, there's zero chance that this 290 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: person is actually going to leave this chat, turn their 291 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: life around, turn their behaviors around, and do the work 292 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: like you must. You must deal with that on a 293 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: regular Well. 294 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 3: The bullshit radar is pretty strong, and I make no 295 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 3: bones about it, and I myself and my colleague where 296 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 3: we operate very similar and her voice is even more 297 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 3: important than mine in their space. But we get the 298 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 3: guys group ready, is how we turn it. And eventually 299 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 3: you know who's hanging around to tick a box and 300 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 3: who isn't. And at the end of the day, mate, 301 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 3: we can't kick them out just because they're ticking a box, 302 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: because what if that one neck week is where they 303 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: shift into change. 304 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: So like the term that you use or that I guess, 305 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: like the almost like the job description is Men's behavior 306 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: change Facilitator or whatever. Right to me, it's almost like 307 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: I think before the behavior change needs to come thinking 308 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: change because they're thinking that it's you know, it's like, well, 309 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 1: the behaviors are just a consequence of how that person 310 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: thinks and chooses right and I know that it's all 311 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: it's just semantics here, but like, if somebody thinks a 312 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: certain way, how do you I know, you can't make 313 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: them think differently or make them be different, but how 314 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: do you influence them in a way where you're as 315 00:18:52,800 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: much as is possible, Jamie influencing their behavior? Moving forwards spoke. 316 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 3: I listened to quite a bit Harps, and he has 317 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 3: said a few things that have really resonated with me 318 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 3: over the years. And the first one is always be curious. 319 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 3: And so someone will mention to me a thought process 320 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 3: or where and I just say, help me understand where 321 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 3: that comes from. What were you thinking prior to that? 322 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 3: Where were you emotionally? What does that look like that 323 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 3: you've been doing leading up to it? Like, you know, 324 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,479 Speaker 3: we're talking a lot about the potential for drug taking 325 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: and drinking and drinking huge in this space, and so 326 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 3: in those lead ups we then start talking about what 327 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: was she saying to you? What were you hearing? Because 328 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: often the two are very different, and it just leads 329 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 3: us down a pathway of an opportunity to think differently. 330 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 3: How do you think you might do this next time? 331 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 3: What might that look like? And you do this next time, 332 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: because you know, arguments are part and parcel of relationships, 333 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 3: so so differences of opinion and thought and all this 334 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 3: sort of stuff. So it's it's making sure that people 335 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 3: are just being prepared to respond rather than react. Remember 336 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: that there's that space, that opportunity. 337 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: I would imagine. I would imagine that like with any 338 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: change process. You know, it's like, how do you get 339 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: in shape? While well, we don't all eat the same 340 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: food and we don't all do the same workout. How 341 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: do we change your body? How do we medicate a 342 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: particular medical condition? You know, it's like, well, there's no 343 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: like it depends, like there are a lot of variables. 344 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: And while the while the common theme is domestic violence, 345 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure you could have ten different conversations about the 346 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: same issue with ten different people trying to get the 347 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: best outcome. 348 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: So so much mate, the differences in backgrounds, in biases, 349 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 3: and cultural differences in belief systems, prejudices, it's a tricky 350 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: space to navigate. But we simply focus on the behavior, 351 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 3: not the human as much as humanly possible. Obviously, you 352 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 3: know where we've made these guys. Look, it's empowerment too. 353 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 3: Perhaps we want those guys to understand that they're allowed 354 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 3: to be different, that the fucking man box isn't always 355 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 3: the best place to operate from, that you can step 356 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: outside of it quite comfortably and just do something different 357 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 3: to what you were taught, what you believe, what you think. 358 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: And also, I guess the man box doesn't have to 359 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: look like what they think. Like I think I'm a man, 360 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: but it never dawns on me to fucking hit a woman, 361 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. 362 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: And you know, we go so far beyond just that 363 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 3: physical stuff, mate. One of the most heartbreaking things if 364 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: I hear from women, there's two sentences that I that 365 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 3: just break me in half. And the first one is 366 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 3: I wish you'd hit me because it'll be easy to 367 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: deal with, so that coercial control. Wow, So they'd rather 368 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 3: get hit because it's tangible. Yes, And then the next 369 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: one is I wish i'd stayed with him, My life 370 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: would be easier. What are we fucking doing to people 371 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 3: where we can't support women enough now that they're comfortable 372 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: enough to leave? And I would say to those blokes often, 373 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: I want you to love people so hard that they 374 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 3: feel free to to get fucked and walk out the 375 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: door safely. 376 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, it's like love is a 377 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: oh fuck, don't start me on the love conversation. Love 378 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: is fucking complicated, like love is actually to me anyway. 379 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: This is my very probably naive take, but this is 380 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: how I feel like. And I'm a selfish fuck sometimes 381 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: and I don't walk my own talk. Put up my hand. 382 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: But like, love is wanting the best thing for somebody else, 383 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: even if it's maybe momentarily the worst thing for you. 384 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 3: You know, that's the that's the perfect answer, I reckon harps. 385 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 3: Love is for itom yeah, yeah, and that edom to love, 386 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: to be loved, and to leave if you need to. 387 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: Tell me about I don't know if you have data 388 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: or stats on this, but what is the what are 389 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: the numbers around, or what is the evidence around the 390 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: relationship between domestic violence and booze? Is most domestic violence? 391 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: Does most of it involve booze? Half of it? 392 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 3: Some of it numbers? There are some numbers, nothing that 393 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: I can think of off the top of my head. 394 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: All I can tell you is I've got a list 395 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: of currently sixty plus blokes, fifty five of which would 396 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 3: be our coal related incidences. 397 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: Right, So, we're looking at like over ninety percent have 398 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: got to do with booze And what about I mean, 399 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: I know I'm asking. By the way, everyone, everything we're 400 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: saying today, none of it is a recommendation or a prescription. 401 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: This is just Harps and Jamie and periodically Tiff. Tiff. 402 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: I know you're passionate about this, so feel free to 403 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: jump in ask a question or add what about people 404 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: that are just sociopaths, mate psychopaths, charismatic charming psychopaths who 405 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: just know how to be, They know to they know 406 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: how to play people, they know how to because some 407 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: people who do this are also charismatic, charming, and depending 408 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: on the setting, quite likable and often good looking, like 409 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: fucking terrible humans. 410 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 3: I get I burn an ex prison officer. I can 411 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: sense the manipulation quite quickly. But these most men in 412 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 3: this space are master manipulators. They've been doing it for 413 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: so so long that it's outrageous that finally being caught, 414 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 3: so to speak, or whatever the case may be. And 415 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: when they come in here, there's a level of that 416 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: that that jumps out at your pretty quick. The the charm, 417 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 3: and I actually get on with most of these guys 418 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 3: quite easily. They're not not inviting them around for a barbecue. 419 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 3: But you know, they're just blokes at the end of 420 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: the day. Who who I get an opportunity to talk to, 421 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 3: pull them apart, challenge them and hopefully get them to 422 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 3: just use one of the tools, Just take one for 423 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 3: a test run and see if it works. 424 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: Do you ever you ever have a moment with somebody 425 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: where it's like there's a there's a real genuine breakthrough, 426 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: not just some kind of not lip service. You know, 427 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: there's not there's tears, there's fucking there's a breakdown, and 428 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, well as much as you can know, you're like, no, 429 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: this is this is there's something going on here which 430 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: is good. 431 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 3: You can you can almost it's almost a vibe. You 432 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 3: know when you've you know, when you've broken through the wall. 433 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 3: I've got a cool little story. And this is not 434 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 3: going to mean a lot to a lot of people 435 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 3: from a change perspective, But I've got a young Aboriginal 436 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 3: fellaw in our group, and he's quiet. He's not had 437 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 3: any male role models whatsoever. He's only a young fellaw. 438 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 3: He's seemingly quite desperate to shift. Every now and again, 439 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 3: he speaks up and it's the most amazing thing that 440 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: drops out of him that you can get. A couple 441 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 3: of weeks ago, it's bucketing rain, it's it was still 442 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 3: kind of you know, winter Ishian orange and Orange is 443 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: a cold place. This guy had been arguing raooing was 444 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 3: his term with his girl all day, going at it 445 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 3: all day, low socio economic chat, good, good, good. Young 446 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 3: fellow just doesn't know any better. And he walked all 447 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 3: the way down here in the rain. So when he 448 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 3: come in literally to Tommy, he couldn't do group because 449 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 3: he wasn't feeling very good. We had to have a 450 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 3: suicide discussion and all this sort of stuff as well. 451 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 3: This is all while I'm trying to run a group 452 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 3: or get group started. Literally, so he could come down 453 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: and Tommy couldn't do group, so he could walk home again. 454 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 3: And that was him leaving to keep her safe. Wow, 455 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: And it's not an option he'd ever considered using previously. Right, 456 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: it's a that is a massive, massive breakthrough, and not 457 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 3: a lot of people are going to understand how big 458 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 3: a deal that is. But for him it's so far 459 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 3: removed from his normal. I was so impressed, so proud, 460 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 3: so just wrapped in in that because change looks different 461 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 3: to everyone. 462 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: How many people Jamie who perpetrayed domestic violence grew up 463 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: in it? Is it the greater percentage? Like we don't 464 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: generally get that stat Craig. 465 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 3: We it comes out as part of the discussion more 466 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: or less than the one on one stuff for a 467 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: lot of them. But you're both surprised how few really? 468 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 3: That actually concerns me, to be honest, because now to 469 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: behavior you've chosen instead of one you actually grew up with, which. 470 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: Is is there more of a less of it? The 471 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: same have we got? Is there just more awareness and 472 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: attention which there should be. 473 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 3: I think all of the above made I think that 474 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 3: with women in particular, are finally starting to understand what 475 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 3: a devair relationship is from an empowerment perspective, which is great. 476 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: And of course as they start to speak up, then 477 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 3: we start to act hopefully, and of course unfortunately, if 478 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 3: you look what's the numbers today, ninety three women ninety 479 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: three made it went up one overnight, So we're at 480 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 3: one point nine per week, nearly two women a week 481 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 3: being killed while someone they know, someone they love, someone 482 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: they're supposed to be in love with them now this 483 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: is a horrific stat and it keeps going up, and unfortunately, 484 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: I think, and I don't know, people will push back 485 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: and get cranky. But the more the women speak up, 486 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 3: the more the douchebags are going to fucking do their 487 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 3: because now they're being challenged, Now they're being embarrassed, now 488 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 3: they're being shamed. 489 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: So I mean, again, remember everyone, this is I'm genuinely 490 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: It's not an area I know a lot about. I'm 491 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: curious and so if my questions are not the best questions, 492 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: it's because I'm kind of finding my way. I feel 493 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: like it's a catch twenty two for ladies because if 494 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: they speak up, they get in trouble. If they don't 495 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: speak up, their life, shit do they do they? I 496 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: feel like you've almost got to create your own escape 497 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: plan and then just push the button. Like well some 498 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: women anyway, maybe not all. 499 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: But I don't want to speak to how difficult, how 500 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: crazy it must be toleief under that fucking number, to'll 501 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 3: be walking around on eggshells to finally speak out until 502 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 3: the bloke this isn't how you treat people or whatever, 503 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: and then for them to for their actions to then 504 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 3: increase rather than decrease what you know, how how horrifically 505 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 3: difficult that must be for women. You know, they're trying 506 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 3: to keep their kids safe, they're trying to put food 507 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: on the table. The blokes withholding money or he spent 508 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 3: it all on his fucking flash motorbike or just so 509 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 3: much genuine douche baggery out there that it's it's mind blowing, 510 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 3: and you know it may be a matter of time. 511 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 3: There's all those bugs forgetting that women give birth to us, 512 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 3: keep treating the mark us, and that's going to stop. 513 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: I should have asked you this before, But who do 514 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: you work for? Like, who pays for all this? It's 515 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: an n g O. 516 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: I don't want to because it's a bit too opinionated, 517 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 3: so I don't want them to getting all sad. The 518 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: toughest part about all this made is the regulation and 519 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 3: the stuff we have to do to just tick boxes 520 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 3: to keep getting paid. The government says we're going to 521 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: give you heaps of my money, but we don't see 522 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 3: any of it, and it's stupid. I've got there's literally 523 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 3: three of us in my team. I've got six. There's 524 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 3: sixty five blokes who are trying to put through groups 525 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 3: that happen every ten weeks. I could run a group 526 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 3: every night, and that's an unfortunate's that in and of itself, 527 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 3: right m m. But the two girls in the team, 528 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 3: you know, my co facilitator. Her voice is huge in 529 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: this space. It's when she speaks, there's a there's a 530 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 3: lot of modeling that has to go on, Like I 531 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 3: have to make sure i'd give her the room and 532 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 3: I give her the respect and I give her the space. 533 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 3: And because the blokes think like some think less of women, 534 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 3: and that's just how I am. So if I can be, 535 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 3: I need to model the behavior I believe in, make 536 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: sure I'm practicing all that. And my other colleague, in 537 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 3: my mind, she's got the hardest job. She is what 538 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 3: we call the family safety worker. So it's her job 539 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: to be ringing the ex partners current partners and offer 540 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 3: them support and you know whatever that looks like, even 541 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 3: an escape plan if if the risk is severe enough. 542 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 3: So what she does is phenomenal, mate, And you know, 543 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 3: all on a shoestring, as pretty much everyone does. 544 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think any of you are in it 545 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: for the doughmate, No. 546 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 3: No, I would do it for free. Harps just don't 547 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:31,719 Speaker 3: tell him. 548 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: I said that, yeah, yeah, And what about what about you? 549 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: Like you're dealing with I know that, like your intentions 550 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: are good and you're doing good work, but it's a 551 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: it's an almost overwhelming challenge, right because, like you said, 552 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: you could be doing way more stuff, but you don't 553 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: have the manpower, the resources. How do you because I 554 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: feel there's probably a bit of PTSD just you know, 555 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: into your back as you navigate this, how do you? 556 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: And then when I talk to your mum, clearly that's 557 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: all very close to the surface and raw. How do 558 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: you manage you? How do you? How do you? You know, 559 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: we all have our peaks and trust, but how do 560 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: how do you protect you while still doing what you 561 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: need to do? 562 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 3: It's not always easy, mate. Sometimes I'm not a great dad. 563 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm not a great friend or a great partner. 564 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 3: But what I've done is empower those closest to me 565 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 3: to call me out because sometimes I don't see it. 566 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 3: So yeah, given permission to say, hey, this is different 567 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 3: to your normal. The other stuff is paying attention to 568 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 3: what I call burnon circle. I hate when people say 569 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 3: I'm on path because path has like a starting point 570 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 3: in a finished point, so I like it. Yeah, yeah, anyway. 571 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 3: I so the gym coffee connection my big three if 572 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 3: any of those slipped for too long. 573 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: So, so what about I'm thinking about the ability some 574 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: men have to have like bullshitty man conversations that are 575 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: not very uplifting for women. What if you find yourself 576 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: you know where some guys are And by the way, 577 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: I think that goes both ways. I've had a lot 578 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: of conversations with wives who run their husbands down in 579 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: the gym, but we're not talking about that. That's a 580 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: different thing. 581 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 3: So that is a different thing I want to I 582 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 3: want to touch on that. hYP So someone having a 583 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 3: conversation with you and running their partner down, that's a 584 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 3: connection thing. That's freedom, that is. But me and you're 585 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 3: sitting at the pub bonding by othering women, Yeah, is 586 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 3: kind of disgusting. Shit. Yes, have I done it, absolutely 587 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: because I'm old and it was a normal thing to 588 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 3: do once upon a time. But for whatever reason, I 589 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 3: grew up and I can actually remember the exact moment 590 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 3: a bloke simply didn't indulge in the bullshit that was 591 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 3: going on at the table, and I noticed, and I 592 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 3: asked him any interest yes. And so that's my big 593 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 3: challenge for all blokes right now is I don't expect 594 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 3: you to call out the bullshit if you're not comfortable 595 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 3: enough to do it right, because it might be you 596 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 3: a punch in the mouth. Not everyone wants one. Yeah, 597 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 3: but your other obligation is very simple. You simply have 598 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 3: to do nothing. Just don't indulge. If you're comfortable enough, 599 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 3: turn you back, get up and walk away, because what 600 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 3: you're doing in that moment is saying to the other 601 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 3: guys at the table, I'm not doing this shit, and 602 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 3: someone in there is watching you, somebody's going to come 603 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 3: and question you, and there's an opportunity for growth and empowerment. Yeah. Yeah, 604 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 3: that's how we have these cool conversations. I just get 605 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 3: in this space. Harp's. One of the most frustrating thing 606 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 3: I see is when I go to rallies or gatherings. 607 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 3: It's always weird men happen, but men and ones telling 608 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 3: me that they support this stuff, that they love their women. 609 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, well, where the fuck are you? Yes, 610 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 3: you don't have to do anything, just go to the thing. 611 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 3: Stop out. Yeah, sorry, a little bit soap boxy. 612 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: No, no, I fucking love it, mate. Well, clearly it's 613 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: like this is your passion and your purpose, and so 614 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: if you weren't this emotional, I would be disappointed or 615 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: I would be surprised, right because this is but now anyway, 616 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: maybe forever, but this is why you're here, it seems. 617 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: Is there are there any like programs that are research based, 618 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: evidence based, like programs designed and implemented to deal with, 619 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, domestic violence, Like here's here's a program that's 620 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: been designed to take men through this or is that 621 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: not available. I'm not saying that's necessarily any better than 622 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: what you do, but I'm just saying it's like with 623 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: every other fucking thing, we've got some evidence based kind 624 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: of protocol or operating system or treatment option or strategy 625 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: to deal with these things. What about this? 626 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 3: Yes, in the short term, but once again, the problem 627 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 3: with challenging humans to change is lip service. Right. The 628 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 3: evidence based stuff is that if you adopt this, we 629 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,879 Speaker 3: know it will work. Yes, right, same as push ups 630 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 3: if you stop watching others do and you'll get better 631 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 3: at it if you do. 632 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,959 Speaker 1: If you start doing them. 633 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing. So, like all things, unless you're actually 634 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 3: willing to implement and lean into the hard stuff. Yeah, 635 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 3: and it just won't happen. Yeah. 636 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: So you've got lots of people listening. Now, you've got 637 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 1: lots of men, you've got lots of women, And what 638 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: do people? I don't know. I didn't prep you for this, 639 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: and it doesn't need to be particularly elegant or eloquent. 640 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: What do you Yeah, come on, get your eloquent on. 641 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: If you could see him, everybody's about as eloquence as me. 642 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: So what do you well, what would you love to 643 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: share with people? Because there are going to be people 644 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: listening to this who are like this is maybe hopefully 645 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: there's a few a few men who maybe need to 646 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: hear this and recognize a little bit of themselves in 647 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: what you're saying and need to go fuck, I need 648 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: to pull my head in or watch myself or maybe 649 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: own up and step up. Or there might be women 650 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: that need support or help, Like what do you want 651 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: to say to both of those groups? 652 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 3: The biggest thing is to get yourself educated in what 653 00:39:54,680 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 3: abuse constitutes what constitutes abuse? So there are there's a list. 654 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,359 Speaker 3: Perhaps I can promise you if I spoke one on 655 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 3: one with every man in my town, most of them 656 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 3: would look at this list at some says and go shit, 657 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 3: I am guilty of some of these right now. The 658 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 3: other side of that coin, of course, is the women 659 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 3: not knowing that, fuck me, I'm actually in this relationship. 660 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 3: So it would be simply educating yourself and be willing 661 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,720 Speaker 3: to have those discussions with each other. Of the issues 662 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 3: we face as couples is through poor communication, through difficult 663 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 3: conversations had well and just scheduling that in how's your day, 664 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,760 Speaker 3: what's going on for you, what's happening in your world? 665 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: You know, asking the kids what went well today? What 666 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 3: can we do better next time? What do you need 667 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 3: from me? As a dad? Like actually I can empower 668 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 3: them to put you in their lives. I hate the 669 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 3: fact that I work in the harm minimization space. I 670 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 3: want to work in harm prevention, and I would imagine 671 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 3: that most people in this environment want to. But we 672 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 3: need to be having really tough conversations with ten, eleven, 673 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 3: twelve year old kids. We need to show them, Hey girls, 674 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 3: here's a list of ship for you never to put 675 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 3: up with. Hey boys, here's a list of stuff you 676 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 3: need to never does. Guess what those lists look exactly? 677 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: The I wonder that that I've never thought of that, Like, 678 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:33,240 Speaker 1: I've never thought of opening that door on young young 679 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: women or young girls and young boys. And because it 680 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: seems like, oh, this is not something that children need 681 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: to learn about. Absolutely, Wait, maybe they do. 682 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 3: Maybe the language halts. All of this stuff is in 683 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 3: the language, mate. The more we allow our little boys 684 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 3: to talk shit about girls, yeah, the more we don't say, hey, 685 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 3: that's not how you do this. Yeah, the more we 686 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 3: don't pull them up. You know, there's a there's a 687 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 3: few pretty powerful little programs that are run in schools, 688 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 3: but they kind of bounce around the subject. 689 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: Right, kids are. 690 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 3: Tougher and more able to deal with this ship than 691 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 3: ever ever before, at any other time on this planet. Right, 692 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 3: they know some stuff. Most of them are probably doing 693 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,879 Speaker 3: things that I'd be afraid to try. Yeah, But if 694 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 3: we don't, if we don't empower them now to have 695 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 3: those conversations to recognize right and wrong, then my job 696 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 3: is just going to keep getting harder and harder. And 697 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 3: I want that. 698 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: I've got a tricky I've got a tricky question for 699 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,839 Speaker 1: you again. So another one. So I've got a hypothetical. 700 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, this is a hypothetical. I'm not 701 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: talking about someone said I try and figure it out. Okay. 702 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: So I know a couple and from the outside looking 703 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: and it's kind of you know works. There's this public 704 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: version of the relationship which is okay, but behind closed 705 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 1: doors that's not the case at all. And the dude 706 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: is very controlling and very strong and very you know 707 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: whatever fill in the blank, and the female is the 708 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: opposite of that. And I'm an outside observer and I 709 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: know that if I try to do anything that won't work. Well, 710 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: if I try to talk to him, he'll deny it, 711 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: potentially get aggressive. And I know there's no simple answer 712 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: to this, but I think all of us probably know 713 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: someone or someone's where there's a version of that going on. 714 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: What like you don't want to do nothing, but you 715 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: don't want to throw a match on it. 716 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 3: This is a really, really tough situation and I can't 717 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 3: speak for everyone. What I would do is get educated, 718 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 3: go speak to there's dvout specialists at the place. There's 719 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 3: relationship advice you can get online through relationships Australia. Know 720 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 3: what you can do, what you can't do, what you 721 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 3: can and can't get away with. There are you know 722 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 3: for those two that might be how they do life. Yeah, 723 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 3: but it does not mean that you can't raise a 724 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 3: question and hey, you have to be prepared to lose 725 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 3: a friend to save a life. Yeah yeah, yeah, wow. 726 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: If people want to get if people want to support 727 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: this kind of work or even do this kind of work, 728 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: which is it's tough work, or people want to support you, 729 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: or how do people how do people get involved? If 730 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,320 Speaker 1: somebody's got an interest in whatever this, they've got a 731 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: psyched background or a counseling back ground, or they want 732 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 1: to do some kind of certification where they can get 733 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: involved and work in their space and help. I mean, 734 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: this is a multifaceted issue. This is not a three 735 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: step solution, and this is you know, there are so 736 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: many parts to this, so there's no quick fix. But like, 737 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,879 Speaker 1: what do we need? Who do we need? Apart from 738 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,399 Speaker 1: funding which is the obvious one, but can people get 739 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: involved to do what you do? 740 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 3: I still don't know how I landed here, HAPs, so 741 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 3: that's a tough question. I think there's an organization called 742 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 3: MTV Note of Violence and they are our overarching body, 743 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 3: and that would be the first step I would expect. 744 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:52,399 Speaker 3: And there are unfortunately a lot of opportunities to work 745 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,720 Speaker 3: in the domestic violence space variously. Currently in this country, 746 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 3: whe're going through what we call sixteen days of activism, 747 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 3: and of course, as I said previously, just fucking show up. Yeah, 748 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,399 Speaker 3: I'm talking about it, Start doing it. Waste no more 749 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 3: time talking about what a good man is. 750 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,279 Speaker 1: We won. I was sharing this. I think I was 751 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: sharing with Tiff and some I don't know. I do 752 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts, mine and others, so some weeks 753 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,680 Speaker 1: I do like ten or eleven podcasts, including seven of 754 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,479 Speaker 1: my own. But I think I was talking to you yesterday, Tiff, 755 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: or the day before. A couple of months ago, I 756 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 1: ran a workshop in Hampton, Mate, just down the road, 757 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: and it was a small group. And I apologize to 758 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: my listeners who heard this story, but one of the 759 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,840 Speaker 1: ladies in the group was five hours. But one of 760 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,919 Speaker 1: the ladies in the group, you know, we're all kind 761 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,959 Speaker 1: of interacting, and she goes, my ex husband hates you, 762 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: like hates me, right, And I'm like, that's not the 763 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: smallest group. There's a few husbands and ex husbands and 764 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: boyfriends who right. I'm like, I'm okay with that. And 765 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 1: I said, well, when did like, when did he and 766 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: I intersect where did I meet him? And she goes, oh, 767 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 1: he's never met you. I went what She goes, He 768 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: doesn't know you, he's never met you, he's never listened 769 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: to a conversation of podcasts, nothing, But he thinks that 770 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: you're the reason that we broke up, right, So the 771 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: reason his marriage was destroyed was because of me. I'm like, Wow, 772 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,280 Speaker 1: how fucking delusion was that bloke? How much how arrogant 773 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: and self righteous are you when you think that somebody 774 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,879 Speaker 1: that you've never met or had a conversation with you, 775 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: is that the reason that your marriage your marriage didn't work. 776 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 3: I'm like, it's amazing how many guys don't he what 777 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 3: the women are asking of them, or telling them or 778 00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 3: explaining to them. And eventually, you know, they either get 779 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 3: sick of saying it, whether they say it a different 780 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 3: way by leaving or by yelling, and just so many 781 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 3: different ways. And what we do know is the girls 782 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 3: are telling us. The women are speaking right to us. 783 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 3: They tell us exactly what they want. We just don't listen. 784 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 3: And in this most case, really was not listening until 785 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 3: he decided that it was all you. 786 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking Craig Harper effect. Hey mate, you're a gun. 787 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,839 Speaker 1: We didn't even talk about your coma. We'll do that 788 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 1: next time, if there's the next time. But how do 789 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: people connect with you or learn more or what do 790 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: you want to and where do you want to direct 791 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: people towards? If anything. 792 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 3: I do have a website, Jamie stebben dot net. It 793 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 3: is it needs updating. It's probably the easiest way. Or 794 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 3: just email me on Jamie's steado at gmail dot com. 795 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:52,839 Speaker 3: I don't know. 796 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: Jamie Jamie Steado at gmail dot comedy's home address. Everyone 797 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,279 Speaker 1: is number seven. No, all right, it's been We got 798 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: through it. No internet problems today. 799 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,640 Speaker 3: So that was nice. Thank you and it went a 800 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 3: different way again, which was really cool. 801 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,359 Speaker 1: So all buddy, we'll say we'll say goodbye for here, 802 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: but for the moment, mate, we appreciate you being on 803 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: the new project Tiff for you O K. 804 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,320 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, thank you, Thanks Jamie, cool, Thanks everyone. 805 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:26,240 Speaker 3: Thanks course