Speaker 1: I get a champs Patrick, Tiffany and Cook you asked
Speaker 1: for you Project fortnight They get together with two smartest people,
Speaker 1: Patrick and Tiff and the ex fucking bogan from La Trivalley.
Speaker 1: Just trying to hang into the conversational brilliance that is
Speaker 1: these two.
Speaker 2: Hi, Patrick, Hey he doing.
Speaker 1: O'm good, I'm good. Good morning Tiff who was up
Speaker 1: until thirty seconds ago?
Speaker 2: Me just trying, just trying it on, just seeing how
Speaker 2: it feels. Be great.
Speaker 1: For some reason, TIFF's little window on this zoom call
Speaker 1: said my name, and then she said to me, did
Speaker 1: you do that? Like I have the skills to do?
Speaker 2: That's the funny thing. You were touting us as the
Speaker 2: tech genius is And after our last show where I
Speaker 2: impersonated Tiff, I jumped into a team meeting with a
Speaker 2: client and realized that I was still Tiff. So it's
Speaker 2: all kind of all goes downhill from here, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you know there's there's the claim, there's the brand,
Speaker 1: and then there's the reality behind the claim. How are
Speaker 1: you Patrick, I'm good?
Speaker 2: And I was just thinking that impersonating you, you could
Speaker 2: probably sue me.
Speaker 1: What go on? I feel like this? That was a
Speaker 1: segue I feel.
Speaker 2: Mat I's just that Meta is about to have to
Speaker 2: fork out one point four billion dollars for using facial
Speaker 2: recognition on the public without checking with them first. So
Speaker 2: that's that's a big thing that's come through. I think
Speaker 2: that's one point four billion US by the way, so
Speaker 2: it's even more of course converted to our currency cocaine.
Speaker 1: How they how have they been using that in what capacity?
Speaker 2: So they like they was being social media accounts and
Speaker 2: using facial recognition. So what they would do is they
Speaker 2: would say, oh, this is Craig Harper's Facebook account and
Speaker 2: will now match his face and then look at where
Speaker 2: all his faces appear on other people's postings and on
Speaker 2: the internet, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: It So, oh so then to what end do they
Speaker 1: do that? Sorry, Like, what's the what's in it for
Speaker 1: them to do that? Obviously money at some stage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think the part of it behind that
Speaker 2: is to try to develop I guess, an algorithm that's
Speaker 2: going to keep Craig using Facebook. And if you can
Speaker 2: refer to Craig and say, oh, look we saw you
Speaker 2: in this post that was done it was a group
Speaker 2: shot at Nova or you know, Tiff had a function.
Speaker 2: I think it's about that connectivity, about trying to link
Speaker 2: you and to be able to know where you're going,
Speaker 2: what you're doing, and how you doing it, but then
Speaker 2: matching that up with because you know, you've had you
Speaker 2: caught up with Tiff and you might be doing a
Speaker 2: training session, so you might need a new boxing gloves
Speaker 2: or something because Tip's going to punch the shit out
Speaker 2: of you. Go to the dentist.
Speaker 1: Now, I think I saw somewhere on your list that
Speaker 1: I saw it on the news the other night. Don't
Speaker 1: know if it's the same thing, but like a wearable
Speaker 1: I don't know, electronic brend like.
Speaker 2: I guess it's imagine if you had a wearable electronic craig.
Speaker 2: That would be hilarious.
Speaker 1: People have one. It's called the You Project.
Speaker 2: This is interesting, Okay, So the idea of incorporating AI
Speaker 2: into a wearable device that interacts with you, this is
Speaker 2: so creepy. So it's a ninety nine dollar product that's
Speaker 2: being launched out into the marketplace. It's only on Apple
Speaker 2: at the moment, and it's called The Friend and it
Speaker 2: even can bully you as well, which is interesting. So
Speaker 2: the promotional video for it basically has attracted a lot
Speaker 2: of interest ninety thousand views, and it's kind of growing
Speaker 2: all the time. So what it does is there's actually
Speaker 2: a scene where this AI model mocks there wear like
Speaker 2: it bullies them. But what it really monitors what you're doing.
Speaker 2: So effectively, it's a medallion that you wear, right, It's
Speaker 2: attached to a lanyard and you you as you walk
Speaker 2: around and experience your day, it monitors and it just
Speaker 2: throws in comments about what you're talking about, what you're doing.
Speaker 2: You can talk to it as well. It's kind of
Speaker 2: creepy but sounds fun.
Speaker 1: I don't know about the I wonder about the potential
Speaker 1: lawsuits when you know this wearable thing is bullying people
Speaker 1: that are already anxious and depressed.
Speaker 2: Well, it appears to listen to all your conversations, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of attached by bluetooth to your phone, and
Speaker 2: then as you're it kind of starts to using AI.
Speaker 2: It begins to form its own internal thoughts, so it
Speaker 2: can give a commentary. It can kind of take in
Speaker 2: what's happening and understand the context of what you're doing,
Speaker 2: what you're saying. I just think it would be kind
Speaker 2: of interesting but I think I just would end up
Speaker 2: with a grumpy old man sitting around my neck constantly.
Speaker 1: I could just for me, there's just alarm bells all
Speaker 1: over this, like a thing that stays attached to my
Speaker 1: body that records and tracks and listens to everything that
Speaker 1: I say. I definitely don't want that, because where's all
Speaker 1: that data going. Talk about fucking invasion of privacy. Where's
Speaker 1: that going? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Look, I guess it could be used in other ways,
Speaker 2: like if you go to the free you reach for
Speaker 2: the Oreo milkshake instead of the carrot juice. It could
Speaker 2: kind of have a go at. You couldn't it. You
Speaker 2: could say, hey, well, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I could do that. See I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: You know, you fat fuck put the cheesecake down your
Speaker 1: big fat fuck I mean for me personally, not anyone else.
Speaker 2: It has to be your part. It has to be.
Speaker 1: Here's what I'm worried about. Hey, we recorded you saying this,
Speaker 1: Send us ten grand or we're going to release it
Speaker 1: like well that No, that's a big fucking fat no.
Speaker 1: Stick a friend, stick your electronic friend up your ass.
Speaker 1: You can keep it fuck off. There's already way too
Speaker 1: much shit we don't need more fucking electronic fucking friends.
Speaker 1: We need humans.
Speaker 2: We're wondering what Craig could possibly say outside of the
Speaker 2: podcast hasn't already said on air live to all of
Speaker 2: the people, and the terrifying Patrick, The terrifying thing.
Speaker 1: Is that this has filtered me. This is this is
Speaker 1: p g me. If I had the R rated podcast,
Speaker 1: It'd either be the biggest podcast in the world or
Speaker 1: I'd be in prison. I'm not sure we can do
Speaker 1: zoom from prison.
Speaker 2: That's okay, you and Baba.
Speaker 1: When we're not making number plates and eating fucking rice
Speaker 1: out of plastic containers, all right, keep going over one.
Speaker 2: AI. Yeah, so this is another one that I thought's interesting.
Speaker 2: A friend of mine's an author. You've met our friend
Speaker 2: Tour who I did passed with. Now she's an author.
Speaker 2: She's just doing her second book, and I'm actually doing
Speaker 2: a bit of a preread, which is really exciting. But
Speaker 2: there's been a stack of books hitting Amazon recently that
Speaker 2: have all been written by AI. So there are some
Speaker 2: sneaky people out there who are publishing and putting out cookbooks, particularly,
Speaker 2: and they're kind of generating all this content and churning
Speaker 2: out five books a week, and I know you've written,
Speaker 2: and you've you know, you've got books that have been published,
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of work that goes putting whatever
Speaker 2: the book is. If you're a chef and you cookbook,
Speaker 2: then you spend decades, yes, fine tuning your recipes and
Speaker 2: you know, life experience and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting. So this journal went out and decided
Speaker 2: to just take a look at some of the recipes
Speaker 2: and there were things like bratwurst ice cream and croc
Speaker 2: pot mohito so ai has absolutely no blood. The idea
Speaker 2: what food tastes like, looks like should be combined. There
Speaker 2: was one recipe I think it was like two gallons
Speaker 2: of butter. It was one of the things you had
Speaker 2: to add yes. So obviously they've got it wrong in
Speaker 2: a very very very big way. So it's an interesting
Speaker 2: one that it's becoming challenging to work out what's real
Speaker 2: what isn't real. And I guess the onus really should
Speaker 2: be on the likes of the publishing community to make
Speaker 2: sure that you know, when you look at self publishing,
Speaker 2: which is great a lot of authors who self published,
Speaker 2: it's fantastic that they can and in the past. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of publishing companies had the lion share, and
Speaker 2: it was really hard to get a book published. The
Speaker 2: beauty of technology now is that a lot of people
Speaker 2: can get out there, and some people may only publish
Speaker 2: one hundred books that they sell to their friends, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's great that you can do that, But when
Speaker 2: you're dishing out literally dishing out crap cookbooks, it's not
Speaker 2: the best thing, you know, Shepherd's Pie sushi. I thought
Speaker 2: that one sounded interesting.
Speaker 1: I think I think you mean print a hundred books,
Speaker 1: not published a hundred books. I know what you mean,
Speaker 1: because a hundred books would be one hundred different books
Speaker 1: published the only.
Speaker 2: One of each.
Speaker 1: You could do that. That would be a very inefficient model.
Speaker 1: But you committed. But I do you know what else
Speaker 1: worries me mate in the same conversation is because obviously
Speaker 1: AI is becoming better and better, and chat GPT and
Speaker 1: the like is becoming better and better. I'm hearing lots
Speaker 1: of stories of people who are basically sailing through undergraduate
Speaker 1: degrees doing almost no work because you know, like for
Speaker 1: the stuff that I'm doing, people go ah like with
Speaker 1: your PhD. But it's really it's no value to me
Speaker 1: because it's all based on the research that I'm doing.
Speaker 1: But you can certainly write a paragraph and then run
Speaker 1: it through chat GPT. But academic writing at that level
Speaker 1: s differ. But at an undergraduate level where you might
Speaker 1: have to do you know, let's say a three thousand
Speaker 1: word assignment on you know, the metabolism of carbohydrate or
Speaker 1: energy systems or whatever in an exercise science degree, or
Speaker 1: you know, talk about the major muscle groups of the
Speaker 1: shoulder and how they work. Whatever it is. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that can churn that out and with a little
Speaker 1: bit of tweaking, it will pass through the what's it called,
Speaker 1: I forget, there's a program. It will come to me
Speaker 1: after we finish. But there's a program that you turn
Speaker 1: it in. It's called So if you write something, you
Speaker 1: can put it through this program and it will give
Speaker 1: you a turn it in score, and it'll tell you
Speaker 1: whether or not it's going to pass the you know,
Speaker 1: the plagiarism test. And people are cranking these out and
Speaker 1: it's passing that test quite easily. So we're seeing students
Speaker 1: at all levels are who are producing what would take
Speaker 1: weeks some work in minutes and they're getting them passed,
Speaker 1: which is it is going to be moving forward a
Speaker 1: big challenge. And then you think about something like copywriting
Speaker 1: for real estate agents where here's the details of the house,
Speaker 1: write us an ad. Well, that's a good application and
Speaker 1: no one's really cheating, you're just using But when it
Speaker 1: comes to academic stuff where people are getting degrees on
Speaker 1: things that they haven't done the work for or they
Speaker 1: don't understand, it's terrifying, especially when you think about things
Speaker 1: like medicine.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I do agree with what you're saying, and
Speaker 2: we do use AI sparingly. We use it visually probably
Speaker 2: the most, and I think I might have mentioned this
Speaker 2: in one of our shows where sometimes when you're designing
Speaker 2: a website, you want an image to span the entire width.
Speaker 2: We call it a banner. And if you got a
Speaker 2: photograph that doesn't have the right aspect ratio, and say
Speaker 2: you've got, you know, some people in one area and
Speaker 2: then some cars and some trees or whatever it happens
Speaker 2: to be, you can use AI to stretch the photo out,
Speaker 2: which would take hours and hours using normal techniques in photoshop,
Speaker 2: but you can extend hills and scenes and we do
Speaker 2: it for our clients all the time. You know, we've
Speaker 2: got a plumber that we do a lot of social
Speaker 2: media for and they send us portrait photos that just
Speaker 2: need to be stretched out a little bit. And there
Speaker 2: was one of their apprentices actually they had him working
Speaker 2: on a toilet. It was really narrow and so we
Speaker 2: just widen the shot and it was great. So we
Speaker 2: used the original photo. It was just a bit of
Speaker 2: the sides that we added to. But there was an
Speaker 2: article in The Guardian only a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 2: and it basically said that academics are saying, we're now
Speaker 2: thinking that AI has put the integrity of Australian universities
Speaker 2: at risk. There is so much cheating. And you alluded
Speaker 2: to this as well, that it's the quality and the
Speaker 2: standard of what you know when people are leaving university
Speaker 2: with degrees, what does actually even mean?
Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly right, and I think you know what
Speaker 1: you talk about, how you would use it in your work.
Speaker 1: I mean, to me, that's a legitimate, intelligent, positive use, right.
Speaker 1: But that's not the stuff we're worried about. The stuff
Speaker 1: we're worried about is people taking credit and getting credit
Speaker 1: for shit they haven't done. I mean, that's basically lying
Speaker 1: and deception. Well, we know it's becoming harder and harder
Speaker 1: to monitor.
Speaker 2: We were approached by a client and when we build
Speaker 2: a website, one of the things we do is we
Speaker 2: sit down and we do it quite a rigorous kind
Speaker 2: of Q and A try to work out what they
Speaker 2: want to achieve, how they're going to get the content together,
Speaker 2: how they're going to put it together, imagery, all that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. But we had a client say, well,
Speaker 2: can't you look at other sites in the same industry
Speaker 2: and just use AI to rewrite their content?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: I mean we said no, but you know that's what
Speaker 2: the mindset is out there. Why do it? You know,
Speaker 2: why do the hard yards if you can do it easy?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it like if there's no downside. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, with the evolution of everything, right, when something
Speaker 1: new comes in, something old goes out. Like there are
Speaker 1: so many jobs now that are becoming redundant. There are
Speaker 1: so many new jobs that are becoming part of the
Speaker 1: commercial landscape. And you know, as we've spoken about before,
Speaker 1: you've showed us images of aiart versus real art, and
Speaker 1: it's like it's those creative spaces where it might take
Speaker 1: somebody you know, like Dylan Keyes who I follow Chuck
Speaker 1: old by Dylan, who's an awesome artist. Follow him on
Speaker 1: He's been on the show on Instagram, Like, his work
Speaker 1: is fucking amazing. It take him fifty hours of fucking
Speaker 1: like super focused work to produce one image that's brilliant.
Speaker 1: And you can produce something that looks just like that
Speaker 1: in thirty seconds with chat JPT and it's pretty much indistinguishable,
Speaker 1: and you're like, and you know that one person did
Speaker 1: it and the other one was synthetic, so to speak.
Speaker 1: But yeah, if I was a creative I would be worried.
Speaker 2: I think I totally agree. Look, I haven't authored any books,
Speaker 2: but I've done a lot of writing over the years
Speaker 2: as a journalist and creative pieces. Have written some short
Speaker 2: stories the idea of someone just taking that material. Even
Speaker 2: when I've written for clients and we've written copy for websites,
Speaker 2: you've still spent the hours doing it. You know, you've
Speaker 2: thought about it, you've spoken to the client. We had
Speaker 2: one particular client recently, a lovely, lovely couple who you know,
Speaker 2: were a fencing company. Then they started making steel fence
Speaker 2: posts and they've revolutionized a lot of the production process
Speaker 2: of standard domestic wooden fences because they've got metal posts
Speaker 2: that they have in between all the spacing. So the
Speaker 2: thing is they don't write they you know. So I
Speaker 2: spent probably about two and a half hour interviewing them,
Speaker 2: getting information from them so that I could write the
Speaker 2: copy for them. Now, if someone else now produces a
Speaker 2: steel fence post website and they just troll through our
Speaker 2: site with all that original copy that I wrote, well,
Speaker 2: you know that's that's not fair. You know, all that
Speaker 2: hard work that went into it, and you know, whether
Speaker 2: it's something that you've come up with yourself, whether someone
Speaker 2: goes through all the you project sites podcasts and says, well,
Speaker 2: I can kind of copy this and create my own podcast.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many of my whiteboard lessons have
Speaker 1: been ripped off? I really like, no hundreds, thousands, like
Speaker 1: yesterday there was one. Anyway, I get sent them all.
Speaker 1: Pretty much every day someone sends me one of my
Speaker 1: whiteboards that I wrote. If you don't know what they are,
Speaker 1: go to my Instagram page where it's just me writing
Speaker 1: on a whiteboard. I take a photo of it. I
Speaker 1: kind of brighten it up a bit, but it's my handwriting,
Speaker 1: and I put it up thousands of times. In fact,
Speaker 1: you know one I wrote called twelve fucking Rules for Success. Well,
Speaker 1: that's been that's been done in different languages. There's details
Speaker 1: of it, there's mugs with it on it, there's posters,
Speaker 1: there's you know, it's been turned into product that other
Speaker 1: people are selling, like my intellectual property. And I've you know,
Speaker 1: I've opened the door on how do I There's really
Speaker 1: not a lot unless you want to spend hundreds of
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars that you may or may not, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of legal kind of pursuit. But it's I
Speaker 1: just I don't like it, but I just go all right,
Speaker 1: it's going to happen, you know, And I think, anyway,
Speaker 1: let's move on something other than this. I want to
Speaker 1: know about like Google have gotten. I'll go on.
Speaker 2: There's one more thing of this is a new phrase
Speaker 2: and you're gonna love it. It's called AI cannibalism, all right,
Speaker 2: what is it? So what's happening is there's so much
Speaker 2: AI generated content on the Internet. There's now concerns that
Speaker 2: with new AI models being trained on the content on
Speaker 2: the Internet that potentially they're now scraping AI model content.
Speaker 2: So what they're doing is they're learning from other AI
Speaker 2: and then as they scrape through there's so much AI
Speaker 2: crap out there, and they're learning from the AI crap
Speaker 2: that it's including the quality of the product. So the
Speaker 2: best way to describe it is if if you say,
Speaker 2: AI draw an elephant, and then AI learns off that
Speaker 2: picture of an elephant that's been drawn by AI, and
Speaker 2: there are subtle, weird, creepy, different things that just don't
Speaker 2: feel right the AI is using that. So I just
Speaker 2: loved the term AI cannibalism. It's such a great way
Speaker 2: to describe what effectively is you know, I guess the
Speaker 2: demise of AI models potentially the demise of AI models
Speaker 2: if they're training them on information that's been generated by AI,
Speaker 2: because now AI doesn't even know what AI.
Speaker 1: Is well, and also AI doesn't know because if AI
Speaker 1: is being programmed by programmers who have a particular bias,
Speaker 1: which is everyone in the world, then you know, like
Speaker 1: somebody put up a thing the other day and they
Speaker 1: asked chat GPT, what happened on whatever the date was
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump got shot what happened on that date
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania? And it said, and chat GPT said the
Speaker 1: next president had something thrown at him, but no one
Speaker 1: was hurt, like, which is objectively untrue. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And there was another one six months ago which you
Speaker 1: would have remembered. I think they said, you know, show
Speaker 1: us a picture of the founding forefathers of America, you know,
Speaker 1: like all the old presidents and shit. And it brought
Speaker 1: up and what it showed was some pictures of Native
Speaker 1: Indigenous American women, right because it didn't want to show
Speaker 1: white men. I'm like, okay, but now now, so now
Speaker 1: there's another conundrum, And the conundrum is how we need
Speaker 1: to be able to filter through what is objective truth
Speaker 1: like fact, data, information, and what is something that is
Speaker 1: being you know, like politically correctified or or there's a
Speaker 1: there's a particular bias where oh, now this is not
Speaker 1: this is not information, this is opinion or this is
Speaker 1: an agenda. And now when it's when that agenda or
Speaker 1: that opinion on either side, on all sides, right, when
Speaker 1: that's being presented as objective information, and then over time
Speaker 1: that starts to become the norm, then fucking hell, we
Speaker 1: lose a grip on what is real, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: then it just becomes a slippery slope.
Speaker 2: You could know. And he's doing Malaysia, Who's doing in Malaysia?
Speaker 2: They want an Internet kill switch?
Speaker 1: What is that? That seems like I don't even know
Speaker 1: what it is, but I think we need one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think they even know yet what it is,
Speaker 2: but they want one. So their parliament at the moment
Speaker 2: is looking at new legislation to create, so they haven't
Speaker 2: even created it yet. They want to create an internet
Speaker 2: kill switch because saying that social media is out of control.
Speaker 2: They if they've got more than an eight million people
Speaker 2: in their country that are using a specific platform, they
Speaker 2: now need to get a license to be able to
Speaker 2: run in that country. But what they're saying is they
Speaker 2: want to be able to turn it off. They just
Speaker 2: want to flick a switch. I like the idea of
Speaker 2: a big red button because I think big red buttons
Speaker 2: that glow the best way to do it. And it
Speaker 2: sits in you know, someone's department there, the president's department.
Speaker 1: You know we're not in an episode of Get Smart, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know you know that it's not a nine and
Speaker 1: sixty sitcom, right. I just wanted this is irrelevant, but
Speaker 1: it's a little bit elevant to what we're talking about
Speaker 1: creativity and the danger for creatives when you know AI
Speaker 1: takes over. But I saw this quote from Einstein that
Speaker 1: I don't know why I've never heard it. It's one
Speaker 1: of the greatest quotes I've ever heard from Einstein this week.
Speaker 1: And the quote is creativity is intelligence having fun.
Speaker 2: Isn't that beautiful? That is so good?
Speaker 1: That is love that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that one do.
Speaker 1: I think I saw that on Lisa Stevenson's platform, so
Speaker 1: shout out to her.
Speaker 2: But what a great quote, isn't it funny. One of
Speaker 2: the smartest guys that I know who I've interviewed on
Speaker 2: my own podcast, a guy who is a rocket scientist,
Speaker 2: and my running joke with him was that the reason
Speaker 2: I hung out with him is because he brings my
Speaker 2: IQ average up so high because he's IQ so I
Speaker 2: and his response to that was, but I hang around
Speaker 2: with you because it brings up my emotional intelligence.
Speaker 1: Now that's probably true. I mean, yeah, well, I think you.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it because I like hanging shit
Speaker 1: on you, but I think you go okay, I think
Speaker 1: IQ and EQ I reckon you're doing okay? Tell me
Speaker 1: about because I feel like I need a robotic massage
Speaker 1: table in my house. That yeah, this is like the
Speaker 1: two point zero of the chair that you sit in.
Speaker 2: It seems I know, this is so much better. It
Speaker 2: kind of See there's two robot II robot driven machines
Speaker 2: that I want to talk about in the show today.
Speaker 2: One is a luge table. So this is I guess
Speaker 2: when you think about it, there's so many different skill
Speaker 2: sets that are needed to be able or massage, right,
Speaker 2: and you've had met I mean one year.
Speaker 1: I'm a massage I'm a massage slut. This is like
Speaker 1: the ultimate present for me. H.
Speaker 2: There we go. So this therapeutic massage has been around
Speaker 2: for thousands of years. We know that it works, like
Speaker 2: absolutely works. So there's a type of massage and I
Speaker 2: think it's called a escape and it's a five thousand
Speaker 2: year old massage practice. And so what they're trying to
Speaker 2: do is effectively use an AI driven machine, effectively robotic
Speaker 2: massage table. But it is going to be able to
Speaker 2: mimic some of the techniques of massage. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: what was the massage that you gave me for a birthday? Reason?
Speaker 1: Like a couple of years it was called a hand job.
Speaker 1: It was oh god, so technically not massage but high massage.
Speaker 2: Idiot.
Speaker 1: By the way, happy birthday, big boy.
Speaker 2: Sorry, TIFFs is choked just having a drink of water.
Speaker 1: Then I nearly died.
Speaker 2: You call it a massage high message. I call it
Speaker 2: a happy birthday. They must know that you go there
Speaker 2: regularly because it's got a really big sign. We don't
Speaker 2: give happy.
Speaker 1: I do. I go to the I don't go as much.
Speaker 1: I used to go a lot, but I like what
Speaker 1: It's got to be good though, like tie massage. The
Speaker 1: problem with massage therapists, whatever kind of style, it's like
Speaker 1: everything else. There's some are fucking amazing, Tiff, you know this,
Speaker 1: Some have got amazing hands and some are terrible. Like some.
Speaker 1: If I within three minutes, I know, within thirty seconds,
Speaker 1: I know if this is going to be good or
Speaker 1: a bad hour. And I feel ripped off when I
Speaker 1: lie down and someone's got clunky hands, like they've got
Speaker 1: no feel for it.
Speaker 2: So you're going to love this device because what it
Speaker 2: does as you lay down on the table on the platform,
Speaker 2: it uses infrared sensors to scan your body and then
Speaker 2: by being powered by AI, it delivers a personalized experience,
Speaker 2: so it knows you know, I guess potentially where there
Speaker 2: might be not why are you laughing at me?
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the title of the show and how
Speaker 1: I can weave hand job in there.
Speaker 2: Gone, I'm trying to be serious. Yeah, So anyway, it
Speaker 2: will scan your body beforehand, so potentially that could be
Speaker 2: those mystical, wonderful hands that you've been dreaming of.
Speaker 1: Great well, firstly available in Australia, and I'm imagining this
Speaker 1: is not a cheap product.
Speaker 2: Look, it won't be. I don't know. I didn't actually
Speaker 2: see a price with it. I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: it's I don't think it's a proof of concept. I
Speaker 2: think that it's actually won a design award, so I'm
Speaker 2: thinking that it's out there. I'll have to do a
Speaker 2: bit of research for you, so I'll look into it
Speaker 2: and see what the cost is going to be. But
Speaker 2: the other thing that scared the Jesus out of me,
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't do this in a million years. I
Speaker 2: don't think about notes. It might have been something I
Speaker 2: read earlier, but the world's first fully automated robot dentist
Speaker 2: has done surgery on a human is that it.
Speaker 1: Seems like a fuck that tiff shaken a head way.
Speaker 2: So I five movies. If you watched where they've got
Speaker 2: robots with needles and stuff pointing at you, and that
Speaker 2: was the TORTUD device. Look it's done, it's happened. A
Speaker 2: person actually had a procedure done. One of the benefits
Speaker 2: of this, it says that they can do crowns and
Speaker 2: things in fifteen minutes instead of an hour and speed
Speaker 2: up the process. He's the crap out of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not after speed, I'm after fucking human hands.
Speaker 1: But speaking of such medical procedures, I did see during
Speaker 1: the week Patrick James, Kevin Fernando that a surgeon operator
Speaker 1: did an operation, a remote operation on a patient who
Speaker 1: was in a different location. So he I can't remember
Speaker 1: how they do it, but I think he has his
Speaker 1: hands or she. I think it was a he in
Speaker 1: basically these gloves that have got all of these senses,
Speaker 1: and he performs the operation remotely and it's carried or
Speaker 1: it's executed through a robot on site with so again terrifying.
Speaker 1: But in some situations I guess over time, like honestly,
Speaker 1: think about in fifty years, maybe ninety eight percent of
Speaker 1: the procedures are going to be done by robots because
Speaker 1: they don't get tired, they don't get cranky, you know that,
Speaker 1: they don't lose focus and attention, and they don't have emotions.
Speaker 1: And I guess you know, it's just I think for us,
Speaker 1: well me anyway, it's just a mental and emotional hurdle.
Speaker 1: But maybe it's going to be much better outcomes.
Speaker 2: Well, the remote surgery that you're talking about, when you
Speaker 2: think of situations, okay, here's a great one, the International
Speaker 2: Space Station. Now, what if someone had a ruptured spleen
Speaker 2: or something, what do you do? You can't just pack
Speaker 2: them into a capsule and fire and back down to Earth.
Speaker 2: They may not even survive the re entry. So the
Speaker 2: reality of it is if you're working on an oil
Speaker 2: rig out in the middle of the North Sea, and
Speaker 2: so I'm thinking that potentially, you know, you could suddenly
Speaker 2: turn a remote clinic into a full surgical you know, procedural,
Speaker 2: you know, a venue clinic. Because when you think about
Speaker 2: it in Australia, particularly to fly or to travel from
Speaker 2: one location to another, if you've got a drive for
Speaker 2: twelve fourteen hours and whatever you've got, that's wrong with
Speaker 2: you is mission critical, so potentially you you know, this
Speaker 2: is life saving surgery. If you had a device with
Speaker 2: a robotic doctor, I guess I'd be putting my hand up.
Speaker 2: It's either that or die in transit.
Speaker 1: We had we had a guy tif do you remember
Speaker 1: his name, who was from Antarctica. I think you had
Speaker 1: him on your show as well, David David David Knof, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he was talking to us about that. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're based in Antarctica, Patrick, and so they have to
Speaker 1: have a whole team of people. I can't remember if
Speaker 1: it was him was telling me or someone else. But
Speaker 1: so they have a doctor which is a really good,
Speaker 1: you know doctor who can do pretty much everything, including surgery,
Speaker 1: until the doctor gets appendicitis. And so she had to
Speaker 1: do an appendectomy on herself. So she had to operate
Speaker 1: her on herself. I think it was appendicitis what obviously
Speaker 1: while she was awake. So that's in those kinds of situations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean to be able to and we've spoken before
Speaker 1: about people who live in remote areas of Australia. You know,
Speaker 1: they have access to everything now, you know, education and
Speaker 1: you know, lots of other kind of medical consults and
Speaker 1: mental health consults, and so it's kind of it's quite
Speaker 1: a it's quite a leap, but maybe it's part of
Speaker 1: the next steps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds pretty cool. Has you arguing?
Speaker 1: You know? You know if you know how I know
Speaker 1: when Patrick, he's already onto the next topic is when
Speaker 1: I finish, and he goes, yeah, good, yeah, good, like
Speaker 1: he's I know, he's bought out of it. And I
Speaker 1: can see his eyes fucking glazing over because he doesn't
Speaker 1: he's not even listening to what I'm saying, and he.
Speaker 2: Just goes, yeah good.
Speaker 1: What was your question? How is my what going?
Speaker 2: As your car going? I was thinking about you and
Speaker 2: your car. I fancy adget, So you've got everything.
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I haven't even driven it because i've
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, I'm just at home and when I
Speaker 1: get around Suburbia, I drive, I ride a motorbike. So
Speaker 1: the answer is I think I've driven it three times,
Speaker 1: and once was on the way home from the dealership.
Speaker 1: So I'm not wearing that motherfucker out. If anyone wants
Speaker 1: really low mileitch, no, no, I'm not selling driven.
Speaker 2: It's a good car. Lady to church on a Sunday.
Speaker 2: That's the ad it's a nice car.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a car. Let's not. It's but it's
Speaker 1: too it's do you know what it's not car? It's
Speaker 1: a computer that doubles as a car. It's a computer
Speaker 1: with four wheels and seats. I you know how like
Speaker 1: the analog, not the analog, but the old Basically the
Speaker 1: dumb phone is making a little bit of a comeback
Speaker 1: in some I reckon. Eventually, we're going to do the
Speaker 1: full circle and we're going to offer cars that essentially
Speaker 1: are like almost an analog car. Where how do you
Speaker 1: turn on the heater? You push your button, how do
Speaker 1: you make it warmer? Your twist and knob right? And
Speaker 1: how do you lock it? You put the key in
Speaker 1: and you lock it, or you press the button and
Speaker 1: then you hold the handle. Like imagine if they made
Speaker 1: a car with no absolutely zero unnecessary tech, only the
Speaker 1: tech that a car needs to get around. I wonder
Speaker 1: if they could sell that for ten grand?
Speaker 2: You would have by my like, ah, I'm selling my
Speaker 2: old miss annex coop remember my miss hand on the
Speaker 2: little target roof.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you a hundred bucks for it.
Speaker 2: One hundred bucks. That's pristine condition. You can put another
Speaker 2: four zeros at the end of it.
Speaker 1: Fuck your Christine condition. Nobody wanted them when they were new,
Speaker 1: especially now they're thirty years old. You should take that
Speaker 1: to the Nissan Museum and they'll go, no, thanks, I'll
Speaker 1: go okay, here's a voucher to the tip. Wow, no,
Speaker 1: what is it this? And NX isn't it? What is it?
Speaker 2: It's an NX coop it was. Actually, you should look
Speaker 2: it up. They're actually quite a cool little car. The
Speaker 2: target roof. The roof comes off and you can zip around.
Speaker 2: It's got a two liter engine. It's the Pulsar trip
Speaker 2: less engine, so the enginees go.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, this is not a forum for
Speaker 1: you to fucking sell your car, right, so back off.
Speaker 1: That's why you brought up your car.
Speaker 2: It was a segue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. He's like he wanted to tell people
Speaker 1: that he's selling a car, and he thinks I can't
Speaker 1: be too. I know, I'll ask Craig about his car.
Speaker 2: Oh, while we're on cars.
Speaker 1: Guess what I'm selling my forty year old piece of shit?
Speaker 1: Anyone interested?
Speaker 2: A thirty one year old card by the way, and
Speaker 2: the segway actually was for Samsung because I reckon. They've
Speaker 2: now been able to produce a solid state battery for
Speaker 2: evs with a six hundred mile range and it's a
Speaker 2: nine minute charging cycle to be able to get it
Speaker 2: up to speed and it will last twenty years.
Speaker 1: The battery.
Speaker 2: The battery will last twenty years.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a game charge, I mean, if that's put
Speaker 1: it this way. Okay, So if that is real, if
Speaker 1: you can charge it in nine minutes, six hundred miles
Speaker 1: is one thousand kilometers, which is forever, and if at
Speaker 1: last twenty if all of those things are real, then
Speaker 1: that's a game changer for ev Then I would be
Speaker 1: if they could do that just well not that I'd
Speaker 1: be a convert, but I'd be more supportive of that
Speaker 1: because that makes sense. There's still the small conundrum of
Speaker 1: what we do with all those fucking batteries.
Speaker 2: Well, twenty twenty seven is when they're talking about launching
Speaker 2: at Toyota and Samsung have teamed up. They're sung to
Speaker 2: try to develop this new battery, but they reckon twenty
Speaker 2: twenty seven. The solid state battery. It's an oxide solid
Speaker 2: state battery, and they're saying they're going to be able
Speaker 2: to deliver all of this that's a massive boon. Wouldn't
Speaker 2: that be amazing to be able to have that?
Speaker 1: And I tell you, speaking of electric vehicles, what is
Speaker 1: really struggling on the transport landscape is electric motorcycles. Who
Speaker 1: blokes well and women who ride bikes. Motorbikes are more
Speaker 1: men than women. But there are lots of ladies that
Speaker 1: ride bikes. So I'm going to backtrack on them to
Speaker 1: say people who ride bikes are generally not warming to
Speaker 1: electric motorbikes.
Speaker 2: You know why I was excited about electric motorbikes because
Speaker 2: the three top motorcycle manufacturers got together and they said,
Speaker 2: you know what, why don't we produce a standard battery
Speaker 2: and that way you do a swap and go when
Speaker 2: you go to your service station, instead of charging, you
Speaker 2: just swap the battery out, put the new battery in
Speaker 2: drive off. How good is that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? There's one problem though, it makes no sound.
Speaker 2: What the me screaming like the girl as I'm trying
Speaker 2: to right, So.
Speaker 1: You don't understand it's motorbikes. It's about the visceral experience.
Speaker 1: It's about that fucking throbbing between your legs. It's about
Speaker 1: the noise, It's about the what I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: anything central. I'm talking about or it could be a
Speaker 1: bit central the motorbike, but it's that that fucking sitting
Speaker 1: on something while you're at the lights and your whole
Speaker 1: body is vibrating because you're sitting on a two and
Speaker 1: a half liter engine.
Speaker 2: That's what it's about.
Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what vibrator.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's a six hundred pounds vibrator. That's of sorts.
Speaker 1: Can we get on something less actual?
Speaker 2: Because I didn't enjoy my ride on the bike with
Speaker 2: you at all. I was too busy having the shit
Speaker 2: scared out of me when you were weaving through traffic.
Speaker 1: It's because you're a big baby. If you just fucking
Speaker 1: let it go and you just you just sat really close.
Speaker 1: You wanted to just sit on the back without going
Speaker 1: because you just loved being in that position. You were
Speaker 1: enjoying it till we head it off all right now,
Speaker 1: Can you please tell me why Google has got a
Speaker 1: payback of squillion dollars and why they've gotten in trouble
Speaker 1: for something recently. Not that I'm too heartbroken for them.
Speaker 2: It's an antitrust thing in the United States. So one
Speaker 2: of the problems is that Google has such a massive
Speaker 2: market share. You know, we even knew would you google something,
Speaker 2: you for something, it's when you search online, you google it.
Speaker 2: So there's a real concern now with a lot of lawmakers.
Speaker 2: This is kind of happening in the States at the moment,
Speaker 2: but I'm sure it's being thought. You know, a lot
Speaker 2: of people are thinking this through, whether you're an advertiser
Speaker 2: or whether you're somebody who just happens to be looking
Speaker 2: for something on search. The monopoly is totally with Google,
Speaker 2: and I think on phones it's about ninety five percent,
Speaker 2: and on desktop searches it's about ninety percent. But the
Speaker 2: concern is that Google has done a deal with a
Speaker 2: number of phone manufacturers to make their search feature or
Speaker 2: make the Google Search resident on that device. So when
Speaker 2: you unpack the device, charge it up, and start using
Speaker 2: it and you want to do an Internet search, Google
Speaker 2: is the default search parameter the search engine. And this
Speaker 2: is the thing that's concerning some of the lawmakers. They're
Speaker 2: saying that they've got a massive, massive market share, and
Speaker 2: that's the real concern at the moment. So there's Look,
Speaker 2: it's a hard one because I guess we use it.
Speaker 2: We use it every day? And what are the alternatives?
Speaker 2: I mean, you use duck duck go? Don't you?
Speaker 1: Oh use duck duck go sometimes? But I do you
Speaker 1: know what, Like, I'm not a pro or an anti
Speaker 1: Google person. I use Google like nearly everyone I know, Right,
Speaker 1: But I think, well, if they built that, if they
Speaker 1: got that market share, if they did, I mean, who
Speaker 1: is it moral? Is it ethical? Who gives it?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: I mean I care? But did they do anything illegal?
Speaker 1: Like do they have a monopoly? Yes? Did they did
Speaker 1: they create that? Yes? And it's like why, I mean,
Speaker 1: and I don't care about the welfare of Google, but
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, wouldn't we go, Hey, well done, that's just
Speaker 1: really good business, Like you've done some great business to
Speaker 1: get this foothold and this leverage and your hands down
Speaker 1: the market leader in that space. And do they have
Speaker 1: a monopoly?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Has anyone got a gun to anyone's head to use it?
Speaker 2: No? Well, this is actually a legal case in the US.
Speaker 2: So the judge has ruled that Google actually broke the
Speaker 2: law with its monopoly. Okay, that's where this is the
Speaker 2: sticking point. This has been effectively a course against Google
Speaker 2: for the last twenty years. So what they're saying is
Speaker 2: it's the way that it serves up as search related ads.
Speaker 2: And so a federal court judge in the US has
Speaker 2: effectively put through this ruling to say that their share.
Speaker 2: So this is the Department of Justice. They're saying that
Speaker 2: the Google share is massive, and that Google had paid
Speaker 2: in Australian dollars, had paid over forty one billion dollars
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one to make sure that its search
Speaker 2: engine was the default smartphone on app on browsers to
Speaker 2: keep it right. So that's the sticking point that it
Speaker 2: was paying off the phone manufacturers to make their search
Speaker 2: engine the default on their devices.
Speaker 1: But why do we use the term paying off? Why
Speaker 1: don't we just say they had a commercial arrangement, Like
Speaker 1: to me, that seems like, hey, make us your your
Speaker 1: preferred search engine a provider, and we'll give you all
Speaker 1: this money. To me, that just seems like business.
Speaker 2: Well, the term that the judge used was monopolist, and
Speaker 2: it acted to maintain a monopoly, so it forced out
Speaker 2: any other competition.
Speaker 1: So they're just doing better. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: To me, that's the point of business. We're the best. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know. To me, it reminds me
Speaker 1: of al Capone. You remember, do you know what happened
Speaker 1: with al Capone? Like he obviously he was a complete gangster,
Speaker 1: you know, he did all this stuff, right, and they
Speaker 1: couldn't they couldn't convict him on any crime, any of
Speaker 1: the fucking hundreds of murders and all the underworld stuff
Speaker 1: and all the stealing and all the embezzlement and all
Speaker 1: the corruption, and you know what, they ended up getting
Speaker 1: him on and putting him in prison.
Speaker 2: For no I can't remember, but I know this, yeah, gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tax evasion.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: It's like they you know, like such a white collar,
Speaker 1: boring crime. But anyway, you know, so, how.
Speaker 2: Many searches do you reckon Google does in a day,
Speaker 2: as in people using the Google search engine? How many
Speaker 2: searches do you reckon have done in a single day
Speaker 2: all over the world? Just a wild guess.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to go, well, there's eight billion people.
Speaker 1: Let's say half the billion half the people use, so
Speaker 1: that's four billion, and I'd say three I'd say we
Speaker 1: all do on average five searches a day. Twenty billion
Speaker 1: is my guess. Twenty billion searches a day.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a lot of searches. Well, you actually came
Speaker 2: pretty close at the start, were you're just estimating the usage.
Speaker 2: It's actually eight point five billion searches.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so that's two that's two and a bit
Speaker 1: per person. Yeah, if there's four million, or if we
Speaker 1: averaged it out to that's once a day, if we're
Speaker 1: for everyone in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, don't forget though that there are
Speaker 2: like China has a massive population. You can't use Google
Speaker 2: in China because they've got the Great Firewall of China.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's do you? I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you know the I don't know if you know
Speaker 1: the answer to this, but you are a tai Chi teacher,
Speaker 1: so you should do they do they? Well? I mean
Speaker 1: you've you've been to China, haven't you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? China four times?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've never been there. So my point is
Speaker 1: you're going to know better than I'm going to know.
Speaker 1: Do the Chinese have much of an awareness of what
Speaker 1: happens outside? Like, do they I mean, do they know
Speaker 1: about you know, the rest of the world in terms
Speaker 1: of Google and or are they? Are they somewhat manipulated
Speaker 1: and brainwashed, and you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really really good question. I think that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I look at my tai Chi family,
Speaker 2: we call that. That's a lovely term that I really like.
Speaker 2: I've got my ti Chair brothers in China and sisters
Speaker 2: in China. But because we have an ongoing dialogue, they
Speaker 2: do know what's going on around the world. So it's
Speaker 2: not like they're locked in and we talk about the
Speaker 2: Great Firewall of China. But you know, VPNs are still something,
Speaker 2: so they can actually get out of China if they're
Speaker 2: more clearly.
Speaker 1: Tell people what that is. Tell people what VPN is.
Speaker 2: So what you can do is you can use a
Speaker 2: service that can geolocate you anywhere in the world. So
Speaker 2: say you want to sign up to Netflix, you can use.
Speaker 1: Make it easier. People like, what the fuck is geo locate?
Speaker 1: Just speak our language.
Speaker 2: It hides where you are, so the Internet knows where
Speaker 2: you are when you log on. If you use a VPN,
Speaker 2: you can hide where you are and pretend to be
Speaker 2: somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Has that thank you, thank you, professor? Fucking hell? So
Speaker 1: oh can you explain? Yes, so gea lok and everyone's
Speaker 1: just switched off. It's like all right, tell me about space.
Speaker 1: What's going on in the bloody intergalactic weirdness?
Speaker 2: That is us intergalectic weirdness. It's not integlectic or weird.
Speaker 2: This is like you've heard of the vault, that there's
Speaker 2: a vault somewhere in Scandinavia that has all these seeds.
Speaker 2: It's a seed vault.
Speaker 1: I've seen a doco on it. It's under a mountain.
Speaker 1: It's fucking amazing. Have you seen that, Tiff. So there's
Speaker 1: this vault where they keep all of these seeds from
Speaker 1: all of these plants around the world, so that if
Speaker 1: there's an apocalypse and the world falls apart and that
Speaker 1: goes to shit and then you know, one hundred people live,
Speaker 1: there's this vault where people can go and get all
Speaker 1: of these seeds and replant and regrow if everything. So
Speaker 1: but to get to it, sorry Patrick, you you literally
Speaker 1: enter this massive door that goes into a mountain, so
Speaker 1: it's like hundreds and hundreds of feet underground, so that
Speaker 1: it would pretty much survive well you know, we don't know,
Speaker 1: but most cataclysmic events to basically restart the world anyway,
Speaker 1: sorry Patrick, And it's called the vault.
Speaker 2: Well to doomsday vault, and evidently scientists are now saying
Speaker 2: they want to start up another one. But guess where.
Speaker 1: Australia.
Speaker 2: No, I just said space. Wasn't that a hint?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: The Moon? The Moon? They would have put it on
Speaker 2: the moon. They want to because the Moon's cold enough
Speaker 2: to preserve the samples without needing to power it. Right.
Speaker 1: So yes, here's the problem though, if the Earth blows up,
Speaker 1: we've got no fucking rockets to get to the Moon
Speaker 1: to retrieve our samples. Fucking that's great. So we can't
Speaker 1: get there.
Speaker 2: So the seeds are cryo preserve, right, and then you
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about it. So you know, if
Speaker 2: the air conditioning breaks down, well there is no air
Speaker 2: conditioning to worry about because it's so cold on the Moon.
Speaker 1: I think you're missing the point though, If we can't
Speaker 1: get to the moon because we're all dead from starvation
Speaker 1: because the seeds, the seeds are in.
Speaker 2: I think it's not a bad contingency. We're not talking
Speaker 2: the whole earth blowing up here, right, which.
Speaker 1: Isn't we aren't we? No? Did you hear what happened
Speaker 1: to the dinosaurs? You hear about that, you're familiar with
Speaker 1: that story.
Speaker 2: What the Earth's more than six thousand years old?
Speaker 1: Well, well, no, it's not, because the Bible's true. But
Speaker 1: in some alternate evolutionary timeline, perhaps, yeah, in some fictitious
Speaker 1: timeline of dinosaurs, maybe that the Earth blew up once
Speaker 1: or twice.
Speaker 2: It didn't actually blow up. Okay, So Throid collides with Earth.
Speaker 2: Giant plume of dust and dirt and debris enters the atmosphere,
Speaker 2: blocks out the sun, Earth goes into ice age. Dinosaurs die,
Speaker 2: but some animals, like the wily little animals that we
Speaker 2: ended up becoming, when you make it through, and then
Speaker 2: there's a big sign that says, build a rocket, fly
Speaker 2: to the moon. You can get all your seeds done.
Speaker 1: Now, before you start stating all this stuff as a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, like you were there as an observer,
Speaker 1: could you start all of that with allegedly.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, we allegedly and the Earth allegedly there was
Speaker 2: a plume of dust and allegedly on the dinosaurs die.
Speaker 2: That's all the fossils and all the stuff that we
Speaker 2: know have been there for you know, all those hundreds
Speaker 2: of millions of years, four thousands last week, I was
Speaker 2: it last week? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Can you tell me speaking of nothing to do with crime,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in this story. Record breaking seventy five million
Speaker 1: dollar ransom had to dark an Angels gang. I feel
Speaker 1: like these kind of that was that like an online
Speaker 1: thing mate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an interesting one because this is thought
Speaker 2: to have been the largest ever ransomware payment ever made.
Speaker 2: Because look what happens is that ransom were like activists
Speaker 2: or people who go out, their actors go out and
Speaker 2: they infect a system and lock out the entire manufacturing
Speaker 2: process or whatever it happens to be. That freezes out
Speaker 2: the company's information and they say to them, if you
Speaker 2: don't pay a certain amount of money within x amount
Speaker 2: of time, we're going to delete all of your data.
Speaker 2: So it's effectively what ransomware is. It happens on a
Speaker 2: small scale, It happens to everyday people, but it can
Speaker 2: also happen to large corporations and companies. And look, as
Speaker 2: an off the record, I do know that in Australia
Speaker 2: there was a company that made a decision to pay
Speaker 2: their ransomware because they were losing more money every day
Speaker 2: in production than they did to pay the people who
Speaker 2: were behind the ransomware attack. But they're saying this is
Speaker 2: like Threat Labs is a like as a group that
Speaker 2: looks into this sort of stuff. And what they're saying
Speaker 2: is that this is pretty deplorable because the thing is,
Speaker 2: so many legal authorities, so many jurisdictions say don't pay ransomware.
Speaker 2: Don't pay ransomware. It only encourages people to keep the
Speaker 2: system going. And so now this and this group called
Speaker 2: the Dark Angels evidently got a massive payment of seventy
Speaker 2: five million dollars paid to them by an undisclosed victim
Speaker 2: earlier this year, and that massively beat the previous record
Speaker 2: of forty million. So the problem is that this is
Speaker 2: a ransomware report that comes out and it's on the increase,
Speaker 2: and the problem is, you know, do we pay it
Speaker 2: or don't we pay it? The Australian government says don't
Speaker 2: pay it. The American government says don't pay it. But
Speaker 2: it's pretty hard if you're in an organization where you're
Speaker 2: relying on the match, say, the manufacturing process, and allo,
Speaker 2: everything grinds to a holt. What do you do?
Speaker 1: And especially it's all well and good for the government,
Speaker 1: and I understand the intention behind that, and in principle
Speaker 1: I agree with that, but Let's say you're the owner
Speaker 1: of a fifty billion dollar company and you've got to
Speaker 1: pay out fifty million to get the wheels turning again,
Speaker 1: and you're losing ten twenty thirty million a day, and
Speaker 1: you go, well, it's all well and good, but if
Speaker 1: we don't pay it, my business is fucked and I'm fucked,
Speaker 1: and we go broke, and my five thousand employees don't
Speaker 1: have a job. And the easy way to fix that,
Speaker 1: in inverted commas is to do this. It is. It
Speaker 1: is a real conundrum and a you know, like financial
Speaker 1: and moral and ethical and legal dilemma. And while I
Speaker 1: agree with the intention and the sentiment behind the don't
Speaker 1: give in to criminals, I can understand in certain I
Speaker 1: think everything is context dependent.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like I would never hurt anyone, but if someone
Speaker 1: was hurting my mum, I would definitely hurt someone. Like
Speaker 1: it depends on what's going on. You know, would you
Speaker 1: ever want to kill anyone? Of course I would never
Speaker 1: want to kill anyone, but you put any person in
Speaker 1: some situations, in an extreme situations, you go, well, if
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, show me a dad or mum
Speaker 1: that won't die to protect their child, or kill someone
Speaker 1: who's trying to hurt their child, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: and that's an extreme stretch, but I think I don't
Speaker 1: think that all of these rules or laws are Yes,
Speaker 1: they're black and white, but in certain things like this
Speaker 1: where you think, well, someone's going to lose everything and
Speaker 1: everyone that works in that organization can pay these crooks,
Speaker 1: and you go, yeah, it doesn't help because now we're
Speaker 1: kind of encouraging the crooks. But yeah, that's one of
Speaker 1: those there is no right and wrong, but it's understandable
Speaker 1: either way.
Speaker 2: I think the key finding out of this one is
Speaker 2: we need to pour more resources into cybersecurity and to
Speaker 2: kind of churning out of I guess universities where people
Speaker 2: are using AI to learn cybersecurity. Now, I'm thinking that
Speaker 2: if the right investment is made to try to encourage
Speaker 2: businesses and not just big business but smaller businesses to
Speaker 2: just do what they can to increase their security, and
Speaker 2: if the government can do that, then we're going to
Speaker 2: prevent it in the first place. It's that whole prevention
Speaker 2: is better than the cure.
Speaker 1: I just realized I've got another appointment in four and
Speaker 1: a half minutes, So Patrick, you're the best. How do
Speaker 1: people find you and connect with you?
Speaker 2: You can go to websites now, dot com, dot au.
Speaker 2: There's all the stuff about what we do. So feel
Speaker 2: free reach out say gooday.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that, thank you and thanks kids. I
Speaker 1: feel like tis been really distracted today. Have you noticed that? Patrick?
Speaker 2: Oh? I know she was just taking it all in,
Speaker 2: weren't you, Ti? I understand loaded dak dack go and
Speaker 2: installed it. To be honest, I.
Speaker 1: Knew she was doing something else because she definitely wasn't
Speaker 1: paying attention.
Speaker 2: Is every time you talk about.
Speaker 1: It, I'm like, I've got to do that, and then
Speaker 1: I forget, and I'm like, well, I'm doing it now
Speaker 1: because I'll forget.
Speaker 2: See that's good, that's great. She actually listens to what
Speaker 2: you're saying, Craigo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're only getting paid half of this episode. All right,
Speaker 1: thanks everyone, Thanks mate,