WEBVTT - The cost of survival: Mark Wales Pt. 2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective see aside of life the average person is never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.119 exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now, as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.400 Some questions don't have easy answers, and some stories don't 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.600 start or end where you expect them to. In Part 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.520 two of my chat with former SAS Commander Mark Wales, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:01.200 I saw these unfiltered views on current global conflicts, including 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.960 the future of modern warfare, the rise of extreme ideologies, 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.800 and what it means for each and every one of us. 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.720 But the most powerful moment in this conversation has nothing 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.600 to do with the Battlefield. Mark opens up about finally 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.280 confronting the man who sexually abused him as a child 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.360 and having him put in jail where he belongs. We 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.000 also talked about Mark's new book, Mission Ready. There was 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.440 a lot that we covered. Have a listen, Mark Wales, 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.600 welcome back to Part two. If I catch killers national 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.760 service being pre introduced, I don't think there'd be any 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.000 political party that would be brave enough to do it, 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.400 and I don't think the public would accept it. But 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.440 when I'm talking national service eighteen nineteen, after you've left school, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.680 you do twelve months in the military in whatever form. 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.960 We're not sending you to war, but working in that environment, 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.200 I could see some benefits of that. What's your will 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:01.000 take on it? 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.080 So they used to have it in OZ right, Yeah, Yeah, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.120 they had national service and obviously the. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:12.639 Draft they had, they had conscription during them, and I 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.359 think probably back in the Second World War, but they 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.440 had what was called national service with people and I 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.040 don't think it was twelve months. I think it was 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.639 three months. So I remember my father saying national service. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.360 It was all part of it that you had to 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.560 go to the armed forces for three or four months 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:30.920 or whatever. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.480 It was when I was at business school. There was 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.840 a handful of people from different countries that came from 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.880 systems that had that. I think Korea was one, Israel 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.440 was definitely another, and there are a few others. But 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.920 I remember him talking about their national service experience, and 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.640 I think, I don't know what the research says about it, 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.000 whether how effective it is or how it changes things. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.880 But I mean I'm biased because I've been through it. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.720 I think it's a good thing because it teaches you 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.120 all the skills around resilience and teamwork and leadership and 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.840 a sense of civic duty. Yeah, so they're all good things. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.440 It's just a quit, Like you were saying, the political 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.480 capital needed to make it happen is so great that 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.360 it just has never been surfaced. But I don't know, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.000 it might find depending on how the future goes, he 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.320 might find yourself in a situation where it is desirable. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.680 Well, yeah, I'm looking at it not just for national security. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.440 I'm looking at it for also for the sake of 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:28.000 building a more resilient society. My son, he hates me 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.160 talking about him on the podcast, but he did the 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.240 gap year after he left school. The twelve months in 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.240 the Army and went down did the basic training, and 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:40.200 then in the infantry after that, I reckon it was 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.920 the best twelve months of parenting I've ever done. But 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.720 what I observe, and he's a good, good man, but 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.040 a good kid. But if he went to UNI straight 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.720 away after leaving school, he would have been a clusterfuck. Yeah, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.120 he would have been attempted by the bright lights and 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.520 everything else. What I saw with twelve months in the military, 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.920 he came back with discipline and had some structure and 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.200 some purpose. I saw that, And that's just from a 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.800 personal point of view, my observation of the impact that 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.480 I had on my son. But I think in a 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.640 society now that we've got we could really do with 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.680 something like that. I don't know how you'd sell it 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.280 from a political point of view, but you mentioned some 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.480 of the benefits that military life gave you. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.160 I think it should just be an expansion of that 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.240 gap year. Like if you actually offered that up and 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.159 made it even more attractive, then it's a good exchange 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.680 to have people delaying university by a year or whatever 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.840 it is to do some service and they get paid 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.760 well for it. Like everyone's a winner on that front. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.679 Well, that basically helped him pay his way through union. 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.560 He was set up very well. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.680 And that improves recruiting as well. It's just I think 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:49.680 it's a positive. Well. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.320 I think the trade off the Army were looking at. 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.120 If they give him an exposure for twelve months, half 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.960 of them will decide to stay and they might lose half, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:03.400 but they'll gain And yeah, it's I just thought I 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.440 saw the benefits from it. And I see when we 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.239 talk about crime. Often when I look at the crime, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.039 why people fall in the crime, they're not They don't 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.200 feel part of a group. They might have had had 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:20.120 trauma in their their childhood and yeah, family structure, yeah, 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.039 no good role models and this type of thing could 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.520 actually steering in the right direction. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.760 So yeah, I think it's a good for any youth. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.000 It's just a good foundation. You never forget it. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:39.840 Yeah, listen if anyone's listening. I don't think they're going 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.760 to introduce national service just on the back of that conversation, 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:44.479 but it's food for thought. 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:45.080 Yeah. 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:51.400 Mental fortitude too, that's that's another thing. Like I laughed 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.640 watching my son go down there, and the only thing 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.360 I could give him the any gift, get yourself a 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.080 little bit fit because you're going to be running around 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.560 and so take him running or within the morning, and 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.600 then he'd be laying on the land thinking I've got 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.480 this covered. As it getting on the bus to go 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.640 to surprise down there. I'm just smiling, going have fun. 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.440 Especially when your body's not fully form, you're still growing. Yeah. 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:23.520 Yeah, interesting mentioned that I check with you before before 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.400 the podcast if it's okay to mention that you have 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.640 had court experience, and that was on the back of that. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.640 You're a survivor, and I know people that have been 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:37.760 sexually assaulted as kids choose to call themselves not victims, 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.160 and that's a big thing that your survivor of childhood 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.760 sexual abuse. Do you want to just talk briefly on that. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.400 I know it hasn't hasn't defined you, but it's something 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.159 that comes up quite often in this room, and a 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.039 lot of people who have gone down the wrong path 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:54.719 had that happen to them. 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.520 Yeah, yeah, I think it's I was talking to old 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.080 man about this not like less than a week ago. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:04.440 They came over from w A and we were just 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.880 chatting about it at one point, but the for the audience, 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.520 so my brother and I we were six, and he 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:12.960 was two years old than me, so I was six, 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.040 he was eight. We would go to the southwest of 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.160 w A parents had a farm there. They were farm hands. 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:23.960 They had cattle and dairy farms, and the extended family 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.960 was down there. So there was one farm which was 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:31.120 a cousin of my mother's and so it was it 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.480 was the cousin and his wife and they had a 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.040 couple of kids and some farm hands around. It was 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.200 a cool farm. They had dairy going, they had the 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.480 motorbikes and dogs. It was a great place for kids. 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.760 This guy would offer to take my brother and I 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:47.840 away to show us all the stuff around the farm. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.680 My parents are like sure, and then on one occasion 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.520 he sexually assaulted my brother and I. And this happened 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.280 on a few occasions. Now I was young enough to 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.800 know that there was some I'm really bad about, you know, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.720 bad about it. My brother as well. We had to 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.000 We kind of put it aside and we didn't talk 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.000 about it. When I was in high school. I think 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.680 I was in mid high school. I remember telling my 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.520 parents eventually I was like, hey, just so you know 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:22.080 this happened. Yeah, And they asked my brother too, did 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.280 that happen, and there was like, yeah, Dad's like okay, 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.320 And they packed the car and went straight down the 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.480 farm to go and confront this guy, and which they did. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.960 The issue is and they did confront him, and we 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:34.920 chose not to go to the police. We just weren't 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.920 up for it. I was in grade nine. I just 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.240 wasn't up for it. When I was older, I was 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.360 thirty eight roughly, and I just had my boy, he 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.560 was only two years old roughly, and I remember calling 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.120 my brother and going, I think we've got to go 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.040 and get this guy. I think we've got to try 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.160 and prosecute him, just because having a son. And I 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.240 was like, how could you do that to a kid? Yeah, yeah, 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.800 put him perspective. Yeah, and so, and to my brother, 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.720 I said, I don't know what our chances would be. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.280 I don't think they would be that high, just because 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.880 you know, the time and all that stuff, and I 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.160 knew nothing about the process for it. And to my 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.280 brother's credit, he's like, now, let's go. So we went 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.559 down to the police state. It was like in Northbridge 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.280 Police station in Perth, sat with a detective. She took 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.280 a statement and she sat down again and she was 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.160 she was great. She helped us with it and just 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.600 helped us understand kind of what was what the process was. 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.439 They left it, We left it with them. I remember 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.320 coming back to us at one point with a few 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.480 more questions, and just based on what they were asking me, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.640 I knew there was more there. There was there was 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.559 other parts around that case that I didn't know about. 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.880 That he was he was a bad man. He was intelligent, 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.040 and I think this is true with a lot of 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.880 manipulate a lot of pedophiles, I think they are I 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.240 think they have to have a degree of intelligence or 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.600 charm or cunning, and he had that. And I knew 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:05.160 from what they were asking me that there were other 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.880 cases around this. So it took two years. This is 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.560 all happening during COVID, and then eventually I got a 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.240 call from the detective to go we're going down there 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.440 to arrest him. We've got you know, eight cars and 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.160 whatever it was. They went and arrested him and then 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.360 we went to trial I think a year later in 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.840 Western Australia, and so I had to go down to 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.400 the regional court with my brother and then go on 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:31.880 we go on stand troll and we talked to the 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.720 prosecutor before we went in, and it was just it 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.240 was super unusual. I remember walking into the courtroom and 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:50.439 I was I was afraid. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:08.320 Yeah, understandable, so. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.040 Yeah, I don't I'd put it aside for decades, you know, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.520 And then I was afraid of that. I was afraid 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:21.439 of that guy. And and and I went in there, 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.400 and I had my suit on and walked in and 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.920 as a gay of evidence, I kind of calmed down 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:33.960 a bit and I actually put it in that book originally, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.640 but he hadn't been to trial at that point, so 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:42.480 we didn't put in the book. And I'd forgotten about it, Mate. 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.840 I didn't think it really had affected me, But you 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.800 can see it kind of does in a big way. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.600 I think you can see how and I can see 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.800 now how people really that their life spins off in 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.560 a different direction. Mark. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:03.440 I appreciate you you're honestly and talking about it. I think, yeah, 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:08.000 hearing someone like you and the impact it has had 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.480 on you puts it shows people what we're talking about here. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.959 And you know, you said that the bloat was smart 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.800 and that you went in there and you were scared, 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.760 like nothing scares you, but that's you've been taken back 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:25.880 to your childhood and those predators they manipulate that and 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.520 getting the kids' heads. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.680 And my parents made my parents feel like he was 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.240 a safe saber of hands and he didn't knowing for 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:34.320 well what he's going to do. 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.520 So that's that's what they're They're about their predators, and 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.280 they create the persona and it's always oh no, he's fine, 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.520 he'll look after That's how that's how they apply their trade. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.920 I went into a prison doing a podcast called Breaking 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.440 Badness and spent time in a maximum security prison with prisoners, 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.840 so speaking to them, I know when I was in 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.920 the cops, I thought, yeah, the pedophiles were hated the 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.600 prison like they are the rock spiders and every other 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.480 name that they get called because of the nature of 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.360 the crime, which is understandable. But what I found out 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.120 that there were so many prisoners in there that had 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:18.200 experiences like yourself and that the trajectory of their life 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:22.199 went off track because of that. A lot of times 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.360 I sit down speaking the big tough, muscled up bikies 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.920 that the full hardcore gangsters, and when it's all said 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.400 and done, it comes from the pain that these predators 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.960 have done. I want the courts, and we go on 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.880 about a lot here on the podcast, but the courts 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.960 have fully understand the impact it has on people's lives, 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.439 and if we wanted to reduce crime in this state, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.840 this country, I reckon, let's start start doing that. Will 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.280 have a healthier society. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:57.160 I know the prosecutor there were two other witnesses they 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.240 wanted to get that were young guys that I think 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.600 either lived adjacent to that farm or had been farm hands. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.040 Both of them had their lives effectively destroyed and they 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:13.920 wouldn't or they couldn't bring themselves to lodge statements. And 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.640 obviously my brother too. It affected him badly and it's 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.600 just shocking and you know, a hard thing to deal with. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.240 And I think, coming back, this is why I'm proud 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.200 of my brother and I'm proud we did it because 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.600 it would have been very easy to kind of just 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.600 let it go. It would have been easier in a 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.720 lot of ways that I'm glad we kind of didn't. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.720 And we went through the trial and the jury found 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.760 and found him guilty on think four different counts and 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.920 he got I think it was three years. 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:45.800 Good on you. They need to be accountable, and I 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.800 hope everyone out there listening that has been a predator 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.080 that thinks they got a way, but you never know 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.120 when the cops are going to be knocking on your 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.840 door or your pass is coming back. We've done a 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.240 lot of campaigning here with people that are working hard 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.440 to make sure that people convicted of child sexual abuse 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.240 and not allowed to give character references like yeah, yeah, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.320 that dude, he'd roll up and everyone go, he contributes 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.280 to society, he does this, that's how they commit the 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:18.040 crimes that. Another thing that has been pushing for is 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.440 Andrew Carpenter, List of the Down in South Australia has 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:27.000 been pushing for super so you know, you'd have the 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.600 school teachers that go through their whole career and then retire, 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.120 they've got their pension for the rest of life, having 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:38.880 those pensions and superincuation attack too. Four predators, so really 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.400 hitting them, hitting them hard. 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.480 But yeah, it's a it's a big issue. I think 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.840 it's it has to be massively underreported. I'm sure it's 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:49.920 like me. I would have it was kind of on 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:51.840 the fence about if we're going to pull it off. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.760 So you must imagine it's pretty far more widespread than. 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.240 What we realize statistically too, I think it takes yeah, 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.680 as long as you take every time. It's twenty five years. 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:08.080 We had a hard ass cop from Victoria up here 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.680 on the podcast and talking about his career in some 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.040 of the cases he's worked, and then at the end 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.480 he said, look, you know, and he worked in child 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.280 sexual assault teams and all that. He said, I'm actually 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:25.680 going through the madam myself. He was working doing a 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.960 lecture to his team. He was a team leader doing 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.560 his lecture, and that's just sort of it's all come 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.200 up and he's gone, I got to deal with this, 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.000 and he ended up dealing with it, and surprise, surprise, 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.520 the person that sexually abused him had abused all these 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:44.400 other kids. Shocking, because they never get well, they more 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.479 than likely have committed more offenses than the ones that 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:48.200 they're caught for. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.880 I that we spoke to a journalist. We spoke to 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.680 one journalist from the ABC about because I just wanted 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.200 to make sure that, you know, if there was someone 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.520 else out there that was in the similar position, maybe 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.800 to give him that nudge. And it was part of 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.440 the point I made. It's like, we found out that 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:08.000 it was far more widespread, so although it's difficult, you 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:13.159 might be saving not just yourself, but other people in 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:18.320 the future, or even other victims or sorry, survivors. Yeah, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:19.320 but it's a shocker. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.919 Good on your parents for dealing with too, because I did. 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.760 I've seen a lot of families. It's too confronting. It 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.520 gets raised and apparently worse, and people step away from it. 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.480 We just can't deal with that, and that is something 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.800 that we've got to We've got to change because it 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:42.280 is confronting. Let's I'll try and light that up. But 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.239 I look at you, I look at your life. You're 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:50.399 jumping from one thing to another, business school at Wharton Philadelphia. 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.639 As I said, reading your book, I thought, okay, you 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:59.400 got through sas you got through wars, years of tours, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.119 and then you put yourself in the challenge like that. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.800 I was getting I was getting tired, tired, So what 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.840 did you have to find something to match the intensity 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:10.760 of what you left on. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.920 I think I had to find something that was also 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.680 an institution. But while I was kind of recovering, i'd 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.439 be at least learning something or developing myself because I 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.639 had no idea what I was going to do. Really 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.439 after leaving, I wasn't sure what career I wanted, but 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.119 I knew if I went through an institution like that, 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.440 I'd figure out something good or I'd meet a network 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.080 that could help, which is kind of what happens. I 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.280 went in. There was a lot I didn't know about businesses, 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.359 basically everything, and I think over time figured out there 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.080 were different avenues I could take. I wanted to do 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.879 entrepreneurship because I was like the idea of running my 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.159 own kind of show, but wasn't really sure how to 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.719 do it all. And I did do the entrepreneurship subjects, 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.480 and I eventually took a job in a consulting firm 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.240 because I'm like, while I kind of figure out to 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.960 do or just do this and figure out the rest later. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.520 But it was great because I kind of it's it 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:06.879 was good training and there was a bit of an 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.520 apprenticeship in business, and I just loved it. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.640 It was great fun, but it was it was challenging too, 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.040 and as you said, the cost of it, and it 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.400 was a highly sought after position and you really had 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.760 to drill down to get there. Once you were there, 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.439 did you feel like you fitted in or. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.160 Did I just loved it, and I didn't. I didn't 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:27.600 really feel like a fit in. But there was a 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.680 bunch of other veterans there that were in the same boat, 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.760 and there was all shades and colors of people from 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:39.520 all different backgrounds went to this school, so you you know, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.359 I'd be having one lecture with an Israeli jet pilot 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.480 and he'd be arguing there's some Lebanese guy on the 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.680 startup community and that these guys were really trying to 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.199 punch each other around. It was all types of people 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.600 coexisting in the same space. So it was pretty cool. 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.760 And you got a lot from the experience, and it 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.359 broke your way from the mindset of the military. It 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.800 was a good way that clear clear head. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.800 Yeah, and I got up every morning excited to go 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:06.159 to school, so I knew there was going to be 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.400 some great professor. They were all kind of rock star professors. 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.600 They were if they weren't doing lectures there on CNBC 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:14.520 talking about the economy. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:15.359 Or so inspiration. 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.520 It was really good fun and it was just Americans 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.280 have a totally different view of the world. They're very 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.639 much you know, like you go get yeah, let's go 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.760 get it. But they're ruthless too. They're just savage. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.159 About you can stick your head up or say you 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.120 want to achieve that, and it's not like the tall 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:34.800 poppy syndrome. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.560 And if you if you get shot down, people love it, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.119 they're great, you know, go again. I think it's not 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.000 like Australia where it's a bit of a you know. 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.920 Well yeah again, because I've read your books, I know 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.720 your secrets. But you wanted the challenge over there and 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:52.600 you entered into Philadelphia boxing. Now I don't know if 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.960 you know the history of boxing, which well Philly is 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.800 a pretty tough, tough area like bred Joe Fraser, not 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.479 to mention Rocky. Yeah. 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:01.920 Yeah. The further I went into it, the more I 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:03.960 was like, oh, this is a real boxing. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.439 Town, isn't it, And it's such how do you end 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.240 up in that? Because that's a good again challenge for myself? 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.600 Yeah, And I was. I was just in a ruck, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.520 so I'd been over there and it's disruptive, and I 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:16.359 didn't have tons of money, so I was kind of 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.280 being badly and it just was just my fitness and 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.560 health wasn't great and I wasn't starting well because of it, 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.720 and you kind of need to be starting at a good 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.119 level so they have a boxing over again, I should 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.960 do this, It'll be great to train for and and 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.000 so I'd run down to a gym that was probably 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:33.760 nine blocks away, but it was kind of on the 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:36.600