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Speaker 1: I got a team.

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Speaker 2: It's Harps, it's the You Project, it's the new doc.

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Speaker 2: We've got a new dock, a brand new doc. We've

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Speaker 2: had lots of docks. We've got a new one. I'll

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Speaker 2: introduce him in a moment. I hope you're doing great.

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Speaker 2: I hope you Victorians survived the heat yesterday yesterday being

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Speaker 2: what is today? Tuesday? It's today Wednesday, Doc, how's my brainer?

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Speaker 2: I think it's Wednesday. It's Wednesday all day. So yesterday

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Speaker 2: was the twenty seventh, of course. I hope you survived.

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Speaker 2: Hope you're okay. Today is a much more reasonable twenty

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Speaker 2: seven or something like that, and the thriving metropolis of Melbourne.

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Speaker 2: Bottom line. I hope you're doing all right. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: joining us again, Doctor David O'Donnell, Hi, welcome.

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Speaker 1: To the You Project.

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Speaker 3: Thanks good to be here.

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Speaker 1: How often did do one of these things?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: How often?

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Speaker 2: Now we love Kate save we both know Kate Saban

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Speaker 2: love her, but she was you were intimating that she

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Speaker 2: might be and I'm fully backing you a little bit

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Speaker 2: bossy and she bosses has boss bostht of us around

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Speaker 2: and she bossed you on to hear how often do

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Speaker 2: you do something like this.

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Speaker 3: I'm speaking three or four times a week, but most

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Speaker 3: of that is in person to groups, community groups, sporting groups,

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Speaker 3: things like that. So podcasts probably once a month, you know,

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Speaker 3: and if you listen to the radio, you hear me

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Speaker 3: on the radio from time to time trying to get

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Speaker 3: the message out how important heart health is. Anywhere I

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Speaker 3: can get that message out, i'll talk. Give you up

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Speaker 3: but a cup.

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Speaker 2: Before we dive into the specifics and the stories and

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Speaker 2: the revelations around heart health, tell us your medical kind

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Speaker 2: of genesis, like did you go grant where you ten going?

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Speaker 2: I want to be a doctor, or did you go

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Speaker 2: I want to be a race car driver. But if

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Speaker 2: that doesn't work, I'm going to look at hearts.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's an interesting question. I was talking to

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Speaker 3: someone on the weekend as a PA teacher, and I

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Speaker 3: actually wanted to be a pe teacher growing up. Couldn't

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Speaker 3: think of anything better when you're a twelve year old boy,

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Speaker 3: the peach just the coolest guy in school. So I

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Speaker 3: was I shouldn't call myself a failed athlete, but I

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Speaker 3: wanted to be an athlete. Wanted to be a swimmer.

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Speaker 3: Got to the point that swimmers weren't making any money

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Speaker 3: and doctors were making money. So I made a decision

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Speaker 3: to quit swimming and become a become a doctor.

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Speaker 2: Has that never has that never been the It's always

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Speaker 2: been the case. I guess a few swimmers have made though.

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Speaker 2: How old were you at that stage when you went

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Speaker 2: ah doctoring?

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Speaker 3: So this was just after year twelve, So seventeen eighteen.

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Speaker 3: I was the honest Entrews. I was probably not going

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Speaker 3: to make it. I spent a bit of time with

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Speaker 3: the Institute of Sport and I said I should have

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Speaker 3: been a rower, but I didn't like growing. I like swimming. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but anyway, so I was probably not going to make it,

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Speaker 3: but I used that as an excuse for why I

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Speaker 3: didn't make it. So got in a medicine and if

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Speaker 3: you're doing medicine, there's nothing better than the heart. I'm

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Speaker 3: feel sorry for every other doctor in the world. You know,

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Speaker 3: I get to deal with you know, you get to

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Speaker 3: deal with something that's active, it's beating. It's fun. You

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Speaker 3: get to do procedures, you get to operate, you get

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Speaker 3: to save lives, you get to come into three in

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Speaker 3: the morning and be the hero. But you also get

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Speaker 3: to spend hours with patients trying to get them through

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Speaker 3: real difficult times. So I have no doubt that cardiology

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Speaker 3: is the best specialty in medicine. But you'll have other

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Speaker 3: doctors on here will disagree with me.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the beauty is that we don't want

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Speaker 2: everybody being in love with cardiology, then we don't have

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Speaker 2: all the other areas covered, right, So I'm glad that

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Speaker 2: you're like, if I'm going to see a cardiologist moving forward,

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Speaker 2: which is every chance you're my guy, because I want

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Speaker 2: someone who's skilled and good and knowledgeable and blah blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah, but also actually gives a shit about

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Speaker 2: what he does, and not just for the dough but

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Speaker 2: rather because you're passionate about that science and that work

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Speaker 2: and that skill and that I guess do you? I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think doctors obviously this is a dumb and obvious

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Speaker 2: thing to say. But because you're under so much pressure,

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Speaker 2: which so much demand, and you don't have limitless energy

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Speaker 2: or limitless time, and I feel a little bit like

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Speaker 2: that at the moment. So I do generally five to

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Speaker 2: seven podcasts a week and finishing my PhD in corporate

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Speaker 2: speaking one hundred plus times a year and a bunch

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Speaker 2: of other shit, right, And I'm like, I get to

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Speaker 2: the point where I go, what's the best use of

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Speaker 2: my time and energy today?

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Speaker 1: So how do you Because.

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Speaker 2: You could probably work twenty eight hours a day and

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Speaker 2: still have more stuff to do, So how do you

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Speaker 2: decide where your attention and energy should be?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I probably ought to disclose that I'm only

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Speaker 3: a doctor one day a week. Now I'm actually really

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Speaker 3: I'm an executive. I'm CEO of Atvara Hartcare, which is

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Speaker 3: Australia's biggest cardiology group. So I actually stepped back from

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Speaker 3: full time clinical work, and I stepped back for a

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Speaker 3: little bit of what you're describing. My practice was full.

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Speaker 3: I had ten thousand patients on my books, couldn't see

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Speaker 3: any more, absolutely jam packed full morning tonight. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've got a nego. I thought I was doing a

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Speaker 3: pretty good job for those ten thousand patients. Each patient

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Speaker 3: I saw, I thought I was doing a good job. Yes,

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Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of people in Australia who weren't getting care.

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Speaker 3: So what I've really shifted my priority is how do

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Speaker 3: we get care to more people? How do we get

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Speaker 3: more people to look after their hearts. So rather than

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Speaker 3: looking after one patient at a time, I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: get a message out to hundreds and thousands of patients.

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Speaker 3: You know. And the mantra that I live with is

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Speaker 3: improving Australia's heart health, not improving your heart health, Craig,

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Speaker 3: that's part of improving Australia's heart health. But I would

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Speaker 3: have improve the heart health of all Australians and that

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Speaker 3: takes a different perspective. And you know, that's some of

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Speaker 3: the stuff I'm doing there is working with Kate, saving

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Speaker 3: bee Fitfood's, working with a Heartbeat of Sport, working with SISU,

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Speaker 3: working with these groups to actually promote healthy heart behaviors.

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Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, that's going to

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Speaker 3: make more of an impact than I could make as

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Speaker 3: an individual doctor. My mum was pretty upset with me.

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Speaker 3: She thought that I should have stayed a doctor and

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Speaker 3: kept operating and saving lives one by one. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I made the decision because I think there is something

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Speaker 3: more we can do. I think it can have a

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Speaker 3: greater impact. Sometimes by what you're doing, by you doing

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Speaker 3: this podcast, you can have more of an impact than

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Speaker 3: you good Bye. Seeing four or five patients in the day. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: For me, I like the fact that every time I

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Speaker 2: chat someone like you, but we go into ninety countries

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Speaker 2: and where you know, the audience varies, but it's many

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Speaker 2: thousands a day, right, And I like the fact that

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Speaker 2: I can, you know, with my guests, people like you

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Speaker 2: who graciously give us your time and knowledge and experience,

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Speaker 2: but share messages with thousands of people versus one obviously,

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Speaker 2: And it's like, even with my stuff around human behavior

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Speaker 2: and psychology and the mind and stuff, I love the

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Speaker 2: fact that I can teach people. I can teach five, ten,

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand people one idea and now they all whether

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Speaker 2: or not they do anything with it, operationalize it or not.

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Speaker 2: Now they've heard about this thing called the false consensus effect,

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Speaker 2: which is the fact that we think that other people

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Speaker 2: think like us, which is problematic, right, And then they know, oh,

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Speaker 2: and I go, by the way, you know, the only

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Speaker 2: person who thinks like you is you. That's not bad

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Speaker 2: or broken, that's human. But when you go through life

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Speaker 2: assuming other people think like you, there's going to be

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Speaker 2: there's going to be some issues, but just that one thing,

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Speaker 2: and people go, oh, I never even thought that. I

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Speaker 2: never even think about how other people think theory of mind, right,

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Speaker 2: and then you go, yeah, so you're just introducing them

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Speaker 2: to like you're almost opening a new door in their

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Speaker 2: brain for them to think about stuff which is relevant

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Speaker 2: for everyone, just like heart health health. It's not like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is only applies to twenty percent of the population.

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Speaker 1: No, this is one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, platforms like this, and you know, I'm a

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Speaker 2: small fish, but you know I love the fact that.

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Speaker 1: We get to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, that's what makes a difference one hundred percent. What

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Speaker 2: do you think the disconnect is between people hearing what

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today, what they should do

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Speaker 2: or potentially think about doing, why they should do it,

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Speaker 2: you know what might happen if they do, what might

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Speaker 2: happen if they don't, and them actually taking action or

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Speaker 2: just gone great chat boys, Thanks see you later.

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Speaker 3: But then here I am being interviewed by a psychologist.

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Speaker 3: You know, I should probably throw the question back at you,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I've got a strong belief that patient

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Speaker 3: engagement or client engagement is key to success. You cannot

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Speaker 3: expect someone to follow your advice if they're not engaged

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Speaker 3: in the way you're giving it. I often ask young

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Speaker 3: medical students what's the number one skill of a cardiologist?

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Speaker 3: And let's say, oh, you know, he has to be

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Speaker 3: really good with his hand. You have to be able

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Speaker 3: to put a stent in. He has to be able

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Speaker 3: to concentrate for twelve hours, he has to be able

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Speaker 3: to interpret complex things. I'll tell you I think the

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Speaker 3: number one skill of a cardiologist who is engage your patient. Yes,

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Speaker 3: listen to the advice you're giving them. And if you

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Speaker 3: can engage your patient and give them solid, convincing advice,

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Speaker 3: then that's step one. Step two is make looking sure.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to sound like alcoholics anonymous here, but

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Speaker 3: step two is actually the patient accepting that they have

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Speaker 3: a problem. And we live in a world where you

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Speaker 3: can go on YouTube, you can go on chat GPT,

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Speaker 3: and you can find out that there's nothing wrong with you.

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Speaker 3: You can find out that you're helping Your body age

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Speaker 3: is anywhere from twenty to eighty, depending on which one

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Speaker 3: you want to look at. So you can always get

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Speaker 3: information that's incorrect or fuzzy or noisy, Whereas if you've

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Speaker 3: got real information given to you by someone you trust

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Speaker 3: and a series of strategies, then that's a huge step forward.

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Speaker 3: And again I don't want to go too much into psychology,

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Speaker 3: but you know, we know a lot of doctors and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you've thought this or your willpower is not

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Speaker 3: a strategy. Just telling someone you need to lose weight

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Speaker 3: is allte of time. Everyone knows ne to lose weight.

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Speaker 3: You look in the mirror. You don't need an anthropom

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Speaker 3: more fixed, you don't need a dexascan. You know you're overweight.

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Speaker 3: But what you need is a strategy on how you're

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Speaker 3: going to do that. Not will power now will be vital.

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Speaker 3: You've got great willpower. I know that because you wouldn't

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Speaker 3: do five to seven podcasts a week if you didn't,

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't do a PhD. I've got great willpower, but

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Speaker 3: my willpowers tested. Your willpower is tested. Now there's people

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Speaker 3: who have a lot lower baseline of willpower. You've got

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Speaker 3: a given strategy. So it's not about telling someone to

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Speaker 3: lose weight. It's like, let's work through the five or

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Speaker 3: six ways we can do strategies to do this one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: And I would even add to that strategies, you know,

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Speaker 2: timeline accountability, like having a plans. Great A lot of

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Speaker 2: people chuck a plan in having a strategy good. But then,

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Speaker 2: like my question to my clients and the people I

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Speaker 2: work with, is can my action outlast my motivation and

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Speaker 2: inspiration or discipline or willpower, because all that shit's temporary. Like,

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty fucking disciplined, but I'm not always disciplined.

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Speaker 1: I have my moments, I have my weeks, right, But the.

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Speaker 2: Fact that I have created for me an operating system

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Speaker 2: which is just interwoven with who I am and how

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Speaker 2: I am, Like it's my default. So I don't need

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Speaker 2: to you know, like I've never smoked a cigarette, I've

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Speaker 2: never drunk alcohol in my life, I've never been high,

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Speaker 2: all those things. I don't say that as a brag.

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Speaker 1: It's just my story, right.

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Speaker 2: But so because that's my natural, normal, day to day

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Speaker 2: operating system, I don't need to find discipline, will power, strength, courage,

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Speaker 2: fucking resilience to not eat shit and to not drink

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Speaker 2: booze and to not smoke cigarettes. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: that how do we take it from I want to

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Speaker 2: change my behavior and obviously my health outcomes and discipline

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Speaker 2: and willpower and motivation and strategy is good, But what's

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Speaker 2: better is when Eventually that just becomes my day to

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Speaker 2: day process without having to think in inverted commerce.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you know you've you've touched on

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Speaker 3: something I think is really important. That is, you've also

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Speaker 3: got to be able to forgive yourself when something goes wrong.

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Speaker 3: You don't one good one hundred percent of the time,

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Speaker 3: because no one will be. I work on the strategy

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Speaker 3: be eighty to ninety percent good all of the time

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Speaker 3: is far better than being fifty percent good. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's a New Year's resolution time. You see the number

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Speaker 3: of people who are doing the hard reset on YouTube

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Speaker 3: or on Instagram. Don't do the hard reset, guys. The

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Speaker 3: hard reset look It might work for some people, but

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Speaker 3: generally it's about figuring out what are the five or

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Speaker 3: ten things you can do that are going to impact

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Speaker 3: you for the year. And one of the things I

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Speaker 3: talk about is layering layer your habits, so you know,

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Speaker 3: if you're trying to do exercise, yes, line up to

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Speaker 3: go to the gym each morning, but also take the

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Speaker 3: stairs at work and also go to the second closest

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Speaker 3: coffee shop, not the closest coffee shop, go to the

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Speaker 3: second closest toilet in the office. Park a stop away

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Speaker 3: and catch a walk in the last kilometer to work.

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Speaker 3: So lay your habit so one thing doesn't happen in

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Speaker 3: the day. You haven't ruined the day, you haven't set

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Speaker 3: yourself back. You've got other things that you've done in

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Speaker 3: the day. Because, like you, I've learned now I've been

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Speaker 3: a doctor for thirty years. Your willpower just doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: It does work for the first two weeks of January,

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Speaker 3: and it stops. It works when you make your resolution

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Speaker 3: when you're sitting down at the beach, but as soon

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Speaker 3: as you get back to the busy office, it disappears.

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Speaker 3: So make sure you're putting the strategies that you can.

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Speaker 2: Finow yeah, one hundred percent, one hundred percent, and that

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Speaker 2: you know when you think about I've spoken about this

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Speaker 2: too many times, so forgive me audience, But when you

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Speaker 2: think about.

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Speaker 1: You know, the ritual and the tradition of.

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Speaker 2: New Year's resolutions, and how like if we actually did

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Speaker 2: some and then there's been kind of research done on it.

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Speaker 2: But the people who actually achieve what they want to achieve,

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Speaker 2: set out to achieve, maintain those results, and potentially improve

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Speaker 2: on those results over any significant length of time is

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Speaker 2: close to zero like, it's definitely less than ten percent. Now,

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Speaker 2: if that was a medication, it will never get approved,

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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? It's like, well, this

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Speaker 2: is the idea of it's good, and it's kind of

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Speaker 2: sexy and traditional, and it's cultural, and we're all familiar

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Speaker 2: with it, and we all get a bit, like you said,

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Speaker 2: a bit momentarily inspired, which is good inspiration, discipline or

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Speaker 2: good starters. But that's the thing, is like, what can

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Speaker 2: you do when you can't be bothered? Because, as you said,

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Speaker 2: you get back from the beach, Now you at work,

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Speaker 2: different environment, different context, different headspace, different routine, and then

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Speaker 2: all that shit that you did while you were staying

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Speaker 2: on the peninsula with your feet in the water and

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Speaker 2: it was beautiful, you're not there anymore.

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Speaker 1: Now you're back here.

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Speaker 2: So that's that trying to maintain that psychological, behavioral and

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Speaker 2: emotional momentum that you started.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: So what about this is a very simple question, but

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Speaker 1: just for our.

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Speaker 2: Listeners who don't know the answer to this, what is

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Speaker 2: a heart attack? What is a cardiac arrest?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, it's a really great question and it's one

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Speaker 3: that cardiologists have been trying to fall down the public's

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Speaker 3: view for many years. My view is it's heart disease.

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Speaker 3: But let me explain the difference between the two. A

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Speaker 3: heart attack is when you block an artery supplying blood

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Speaker 3: to your heart. Yeah, And if we get a chance,

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Speaker 3: we're going to a bit more deferent because heart attacks

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Speaker 3: don't happen gradually. There's a gradual build up, but heart

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Speaker 3: attacks suddenly. So you block an artery, you block an

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Speaker 3: artery in your heart, no blood's getting through the area

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Speaker 3: that that artery is supplying. That tissue starts to die.

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Speaker 3: And when that tissue starts to die, that's a heart attack.

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Speaker 3: It's death of heart muscle. Yeah. Yeah. A cardiac arrest

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Speaker 3: is a situation where the rhythm of the heart becomes

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Speaker 3: noncompatible with life. I pause there for a second, because

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Speaker 3: the rhythm doesn't actually stop. It can stop. There's a

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Speaker 3: condition called a sisterly where the heart just stops, but

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Speaker 3: there's a condition called ventricular fibrillation where the heart goes

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Speaker 3: so quick that there's no cardiac output. So cardiac arrest

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Speaker 3: is when your heart, due to a n trial issues,

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Speaker 3: is no longer pumping blood around the body. And if

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Speaker 3: that's not fixed, it's fatal. You cannot survive a cardiac

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Speaker 3: arrest unless it stops either spontaneously or because someone's defibrillated.

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Speaker 1: You yes.

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Speaker 3: Now, where this gets complicated is that in Australia and

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Speaker 3: most developed countries, the number one cause of cardiac arrest

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Speaker 3: is having a heart attack. So you have a heart attack,

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Speaker 3: the muscle dies and that leads to the electrical disarray

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Speaker 3: which causes the cardiac arrest. But whereas is really important

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Speaker 3: is there are conditions which predisposed to cardiac arrest which

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Speaker 3: are not heart attack. So people are born with congenital

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Speaker 3: abnormalities in their heart and they have completely normal arteries.

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Speaker 3: And this is where you hear of young people having

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Speaker 3: cardiac arrest. There are genetic conditions long QT syndrome regard

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Speaker 3: to syndrome the predisposed young people to having cardiac arrests,

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Speaker 3: completely normal arteries and purely an electrical problem. So they

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Speaker 3: are different issues. But in Australia, when a fifty year

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Speaker 3: old man arrests at the MCG has a cardec arrest

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Speaker 3: at the MCG, he gets successfully defibrillated. Chances are I

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Speaker 3: he was having a heart attack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, Okay, Now I want to ask you a

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Speaker 2: very specific question, and the reason for the question will

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Speaker 2: become apparent post question, your honor. Great, So if a

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Speaker 2: dude who was otherwise healthy and fit, not me, by

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Speaker 2: the way, but it could be a bloke named to

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Speaker 2: Mark who was who is my training partner, and let's

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Speaker 2: say he was fifty three, lean, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke,

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Speaker 2: eats great, in good shape. Let's say hypothetically, one Friday

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Speaker 2: he had a cardiac arrest at the gym one foot

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Speaker 2: from me, which I'll say is very annoying, completely interrupted

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Speaker 2: my training, very selfish, look at me, right, So seventeen

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Speaker 2: oh five until seventeen No, yeah, seventeen oh five till

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Speaker 2: seventeen twenty two, offline, right, So Daddie mcdead'ster seventeen minutes.

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Speaker 1: So my theory, they didn't. So he had a.

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Speaker 2: Cardiac arrest, right, he did a set of chins. He

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Speaker 2: did a whole bunch of chins, like twenty. He came down,

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Speaker 2: held his breath because he's an idiot. So blood pressure

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Speaker 2: went to a million over fucking six million, right, so

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Speaker 2: for sure, hold your breath the whole time. Great was

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Speaker 2: out working all day in the heat. I think he

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Speaker 2: was dehydrated and when he does drink, he drinks on

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Speaker 2: this day energy drinks, which great, you know, caffeine stimulants

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Speaker 2: terrific for the heart and the nervous system. And then

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Speaker 2: came to the gym and had another pre workout and

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Speaker 2: then trained with me and then dropped dead at five

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Speaker 2: past five. But that combination of heat, dehydration stimulants, could

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Speaker 2: that produce a cardiac arrest?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, you know, we've got to put in perspective

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Speaker 3: that most people get hot dehydrated do not have a

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Speaker 3: cardiac arrest. But in the right situations, it does happen.

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Speaker 3: And yes, you know, again, I would say that a

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Speaker 3: fifty three year old male, it's most likely that he's

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Speaker 3: actually ruptured a current reartery. So he's torn a current

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Speaker 3: reartery due to a combination of stress dehydration, and that's

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Speaker 3: what's led to a block of an artery and a

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Speaker 3: cardiac arrest. And a lot of those things can be

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Speaker 3: known in advance, and it leads to what would we

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Speaker 3: have done if we knew a fifty three year old

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Speaker 3: We've been telling him exercises, vital exercise is critical, you know,

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Speaker 3: doing hard exercise anaerobic it was great for you but

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Speaker 3: do it in a controlled fashion. You know, I jump in.

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Speaker 3: Don't deplete all your buckets at once. So yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: deplete a bucket. You can. You can train like crazy,

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Speaker 3: but if it's a forty degree day, don't get dehydrated,

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Speaker 3: or don't try and quite as hard. Don't deplete all

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Speaker 3: of energy levels at once, because that's when you're most

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Speaker 3: at risk. We actually know that these these plaques or

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Speaker 3: these cholesterol build up in your heart. They rupture because

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Speaker 3: of information and that rupture is triggered by a high

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Speaker 3: blood pressure, but it's triggered by illnesses. People have the

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Speaker 3: flu are more likely to have a heart attack. People

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Speaker 3: that had COVID were more likely to have heart attack.

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Speaker 3: So lots of things can actually trigger you. And if

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Speaker 3: you're not well, if you're feeling average, that's not the

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Speaker 3: day to overdo it at the gym. Overdo it at

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Speaker 3: the gym. You're feeling great. The day you're feeling great,

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Speaker 3: not the day you're feeling average.

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Speaker 2: Did I mention he's not that clever?

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Speaker 3: Look again, I'm going to leave that comment on.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing with him.

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Speaker 2: He had no heart damage or not significant heart damage,

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Speaker 2: and his arteries were fine.

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Speaker 1: So he literally had an arrest.

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Speaker 2: And obviously it turned out after such a seventeen minutes

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Speaker 2: off line amazingly well because you know, I started working

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Speaker 2: on him twenty seconds after you hit the deck. But

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Speaker 2: and then the ambos were brilliant. Do you know what's

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Speaker 2: the funny thing about the ambos You probably know this, right,

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Speaker 2: But they come in and they got their relative from

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Speaker 2: where they were quick, but it was still it's still

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Speaker 2: about eleven minutes, and eleven minutes when you're doing what

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Speaker 2: I was doing, feels like eleven hours.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, they got.

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Speaker 2: There and I'm like, oh, thank god, thank god, and

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Speaker 2: they walk in the paramedics, the MICA dudes and doets

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Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, good job, keep going, and then

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Speaker 2: they just leisurely set up Oh my quick.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he had very little.

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Speaker 2: You know, he had the memory of a goldfish for

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Speaker 2: a while, but made a full recovery within kind of

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Speaker 2: a month or so, which I guess that's the exception,

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Speaker 2: not the rule.

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Speaker 3: Right. Look, there's two things to say here. One is congratulations,

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Speaker 3: you've done a cracking job of CPR. Most people cannot

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Speaker 3: keep someone alone for eleven minutes, so you've done a

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Speaker 3: cracking job. I'm involved at NIPPERS over summer and all

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Speaker 3: the kids. Wow, we learning CPR. We're learning CPR for

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Speaker 3: the one time it happens. And yeah, one time it happens,

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Speaker 3: you know you've saved this guy's life because you know CPR.

432
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 3: It's it's actually been shown. The two things that matter

433
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 3: is how good your CPR is and how quickly you

434
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 3: get a defibrillator on. So one of the things you

435
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 3: want to do is next time, make sure your gym's

436
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 3: got a defibrillator. And we should be having because if

437
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: you can get good quality CPR, really you keep the

438
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 3: blood flowing till someone can defibrillate them back to normal

439
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: or the heart goes back to normal. It's on a court,

440
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 3: but it's been shown in out of hospital arrests less

441
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: than five percent of people survive. Wow, So now that

442
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 3: goes up. The best place in the world this US,

443
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: but I'll translated to Australia. You know, the MCG is

444
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 3: a pretty good place to avocadiac arrest. Melbourne Airport's a pretty

445
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 3: good place to avocadiac arrest. You have thirty forty thousand

446
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 3: feet above the air is a pretty good place AVOCADEC

447
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: arrests because there's structures and processes in place to get

448
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: early CPR early different relation, and there's always doctors and

449
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 3: nurses hanging around, so they're really good places to actually

450
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: have an arrest. So your mate's very lucky you were there.

451
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I feel I was lucky because it's you know,

452
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 2: it's a privilege.

453
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: But thank you, just quickly.

454
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm not I think I'm sure about this, but atherosclerosis

455
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: build up of I'm being super sciensy here, build up

456
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: of gunk in the artery blood vessels. Areteriosclerosis hardening right now?

457
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: Both is are they both lifestyle related? Or is one

458
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: more genetic or the I don't know, so.

459
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 3: Again you're using scientific terms. I love the gunk, I

460
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 3: think hardly.

461
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, the gunk. So what we call try and

462
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 2: stay with me if you can. I don't want you

463
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: to get lost. I know I'm you know, medically brilliant,

464
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: but I'm just trying hold on.

465
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: I'm checking the textbook behind me to keep up. So

466
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 3: what we call it these days is athosclerotic cardiovascular diase

467
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 3: as CVD.

468
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: And now who's showing up? Now he's showing.

469
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 3: Up that covers any form of build up of cholesterol

470
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 3: or gunk in your heart, and you know it's worth

471
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 3: spending a couple of minutes. When you're born, your arter

472
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: is a nice and pristine they're clean. But all of

473
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: your arteries, all of your pipes, they have a lining,

474
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 3: and that line is called endothelium. That's not important, but

475
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: if you get disruptions in that lining, that's when cholesterol

476
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: can actually get inside the lining and start building up

477
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: in the lining of the heart. And it's that cholesterol

478
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 3: build up that is cardiovascular disease or FASCVD, and it's

479
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 3: a cholesterol build up that happens over years. And I

480
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 3: would be fairly certain that you've got some cholesterol in

481
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 3: your heart right now. It might be a very low level,

482
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: but you've probably got some in your heart. We know

483
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: this from Vietnam War when they did all topsies on

484
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: American soldiers who were shot. They found cholesterol and a

485
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 3: lot of teenagers. So there is cholesterol in the arteries

486
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: of our heart. A low amount of that is okay,

487
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 3: but as that builds up, it forms a plank and

488
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 3: then you get inflammation and your body reacts to that

489
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 3: and it's that reactive plark. That is the problem. A

490
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: plant that's been there for forty years is much less

491
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 3: of a problem that a plant that's formed over the

492
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: last couple of years, particularly as it's got inflammation, because

493
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: it's that plant can then tear. You know, there's lots

494
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: of lots of analogies that people use, but the one

495
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 3: that I like is to know to tell people, you know,

496
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 3: you get a plumber over and he says, you've got

497
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: a leaking water pipe in your roof. Yeah, you'd say

498
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: to him, fix it. But when we tell people you've

499
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: got cholesterol in your heart, let's how and I don't

500
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: worry about it. Not worrying about it is waiting until

501
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 3: the roof collapses. Now, if you don't get your water

502
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 3: pipe fixed, your roof is going to collapse. It might

503
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: not be in the next six months, it might not

504
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: be in the next five years, but your roof is

505
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 3: going to collapse. Yes, And we've also got to remember

506
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: that sometimes when we fix the pipe, the damage has

507
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: been done. The roof is going to collapse anyway, And

508
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: occasionally it's leaking not enough, so it's not going to collapse.

509
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: So we're all playing the odds here. It's not about

510
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: saying if you've got cholesterol in your heart, you're going

511
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: to have a heart attack in twelve months. That's not

512
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: what we're saying. We're saying, if you've got cholesterol in

513
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 3: your heart, your risk of having a heart attack goes up,

514
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 3: and we need to take that seriously and be more

515
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: definitive about whether you are going to have a heart

516
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 3: attack or not. Yes, you notice I'm actually talking about

517
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: cholesterol in your heart. I'm not talking to here about

518
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 3: a cholesterol blood test. Yes, that's a fallacy that a

519
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: cholesterol blood test or a basic cholesterol blood test is

520
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: all you need. A basic cholesterol blood test is very

521
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: much a starting point. And you know, if we want

522
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 3: to diagnose artery disease, we need to be looking at

523
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 3: the arteries. And that's a big push of ours at

524
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: the moment, is to get people of the right age,

525
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: of the right risk to get their outeries looked at.

526
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: If your outer is a clean, fantastic. If your uter

527
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: is are not clean, let's talk about what we can

528
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 3: do about it.

529
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to throw you under the bus here just

530
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: because I can ye well, I'm going to say what

531
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: I think and then you can agree or disagree.

532
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: So I'll throw me under the bus.

533
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: I feel like generally everyone noticed I said feel so

534
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 2: not a not statement. I feel like and generally I

535
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: feel like dudes are not as good as women at

536
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 2: being proactive about their health and maybe these things. I

537
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: know that's very broad and sweeping and it varies greatly,

538
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: But do you think generally that's true or untrue?

539
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 3: So this is really fascinating in an area that I'm

540
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: really intrigued by. What you've said is absolutely correct that

541
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: males are less likely to be proactive about their health. Yes,

542
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: but doctors are far more likely to be proactive with

543
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: males than females. Sorr. I shouldn't say doctors. The health

544
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: system when it comes to pio vascular disease is very

545
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 3: heavily skewed towards investigating males. And you know, I always

546
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: worry about quoting stats on podcasts, But a fifty year

547
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: old woman is seven times more likely to die of

548
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 3: a heart attack the breast cancer. No, I mean a

549
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 3: woman who has a woman who has survived breast cancer

550
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: is more likely to die of a heart attack than

551
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: recurrent breat cancer. So we've got to understand that heart

552
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: disease is the number one cause of death of women

553
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: in Australia. And it's a medical thing as much as

554
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 3: a social thing that if you go to your GP tomorrow,

555
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: if you have a GP you haven't been for a year,

556
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 3: he's going to send off a cholesterol test, he's probably

557
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: going to do an ECG. He's certainly going to check

558
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: it for diabetes. He's going to check your prostate. If

559
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: you're a woman, you'll get a PAP smear, you'll get

560
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: your breast examination, you might get some ultrasounds. So we've

561
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: got to change the men mentality that women are just

562
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: as high risk of men of heart disease. It lags

563
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: in women because hormones are protective and anyone looking at

564
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 3: the time you can see they've got a significant interest

565
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 3: Viya my wife in hormones. But hormones are protective, so

566
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: pre menopause or women have a degree of protection that

567
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 3: disappears postmenopause. So postmenopause are women pretty quickly catch up

568
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: to men in terms of cardiovascular risk. So what you've

569
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: said is spot on. Men are less proactive, but the

570
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: medical system is more focused on males, which leads to

571
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 3: women actually being underrepresented in investigations for heart disease.

572
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: That old kind of.

573
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: Psychological chestnut that people are scared to go to the doctor.

574
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: Is that as true or one? Is it true? Is

575
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: it as true as it he used to be?

576
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: What do you think?

577
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: I'm blown away by people's fear of doing it. So

578
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 3: there's a test I do a lot called a CT

579
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: current reintrogram. It's a test people, Do you have cholesterol

580
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: build up in your heart?

581
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: Yes?

582
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 3: And I would not go a week without a sensible,

583
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: well educated person saying to me, I'm not sure if

584
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: I want to know. Yeah, I'm like, what do you mean?

585
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure. You know, it's a terrible analogy.

586
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: But with the bushfires at the moment, I've got a

587
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: place down on the Great Ocean Road. I was looking

588
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: every ten minutes to see where the fire was and

589
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: decided to leave. Now the analogy is, well, I won't

590
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 3: look at the app I'll just see it, and if I

591
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: don't get burnt, I want and if I do get burned,

592
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: I lost. You know, it's a crazy way of living

593
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: to not want information. Again, this is a little bit

594
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: biased by doctors. Again, I'm not down on doctors here,

595
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 3: but as doctors, we're not there to prescribe everything for

596
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: every patient. We're there to give patient information and with

597
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: that information give them the right treatment. And I would guarantee.

598
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: I shouldn't guarantee someone like you comes to me and

599
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: I say, oh, you got high cholesterol, go on this

600
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: cholesterol tablet. All be If I show you a picture

601
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 3: of your arteries that shows you've got cholesterol in your arteries,

602
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 3: that makes the job of me getting you on a

603
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: cholesterol tablet a whole lot easier because you can physically

604
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: see what's going on in your heart. You can see

605
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: the leaking pipe, and if you can see the leaking pipe,

606
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 3: you want to do something about it.

607
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: I used to My previous career was so my first

608
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: degree was exercise science, So I owned a bunch of

609
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: gym's pet studios blah blah blah. Not unlike our friend

610
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: Kate and I used to. You know, when I would

611
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: meet someone and they're coming on board, they're going to

612
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: work with me or one of my team. I had

613
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: five hundred trainers over twenty five years work for me,

614
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: So like quite a big business in that space, blah

615
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: blah blah. But we would be as methodical and kind

616
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: of systematic and scientific as we could without being without overreaching.

617
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 2: And so one of the things I would do with

618
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: people is, you know, we do a kind of a

619
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: sub vo two max test. We do some strength testing,

620
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: a few you know, flexibility, range, movement, all the normal stuff,

621
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: all the boring. Tell me how you eat, how much booze?

622
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: Do you have coffee, tea, sugar? But but all that,

623
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: and then more often than not, I would do a

624
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: body composition test, take some girth measurements, put them on

625
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: the scales, like not make a big deal of just

626
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: what it is, what it is, and we go, look,

627
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: this is day one.

628
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: I just want some baseline data. This is you on

629
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: day one.

630
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: You can do three pushups, you can run three hundred meters,

631
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: and you can hold your body weight on a chin

632
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: bath for fifteen seconds. Cool, it doesn't matter because that's

633
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: meaningless until we get a second measurement.

634
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: Right.

635
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: And the amount of people who would say to me,

636
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: tell me everything, but don't tell me my body composition,

637
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: weight or girth measurements like they would want to the

638
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: other stuff. They were happy to know, But I don't

639
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: want to know what my weight is. I don't want

640
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: to know my measurements. And I do not want to know,

641
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: because I'd explain to them what body composition means. They're like,

642
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to know that, and I would I

643
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: would respect that, but I would say, whatever.

644
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: It is, it is.

645
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: So because you don't know, it doesn't mean it's not true.

646
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: It just means you don't have all the information, so

647
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: you're not fully informed. And I can't make all the

648
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 2: decisions for you. I can support you, guide you, educate you,

649
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: but ultimately you're the only one who can execute. You're

650
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: the only one who can make the decisions, eat the food,

651
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: change of behaviors, think differently. You know, It's like I

652
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: your job is actually to create the change. I'm a

653
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: glorified cheer squad with a bit of information thrown in

654
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: and yeah, that used to blow me away, but it

655
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: would probably be thirty percent of the people, so I'm

656
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: not surprised.

657
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: And you know, the ones that the ones that see

658
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 3: positive results. That's one of the best ways to improve

659
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: in the future. You know, you see your I mon't

660
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: use the word BMI because someone will throw something at

661
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: the podcast that you know it can be and my

662
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: drops by one or two. That does actually make you

663
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 3: live longer. And if it dots by one or two,

664
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: then that motivates you to move it again, and that

665
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: motivates you to move it again. If you do a

666
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 3: whole lot of stuff and nothing changes, it's very hard

667
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: to motivate yourself over and over again to keep doing it.

668
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 3: So if you don't have the measure up front, it's

669
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 3: really hard to see progress.

670
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: And also we're trying to figure out apart from the

671
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 2: broad kind of application of various ideas and treatments and methodologies,

672
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: we're trying to see, Like I say to my clients,

673
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: I'm trying to see what works for you. Because your

674
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 2: best diet ain't the best diet. It's your best diet.

675
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: Your best excise program is not my best excise program.

676
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: How much sleep you need, I don't need. You know,

677
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: I might need more or less, and not only you

678
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: might need more today because you walk twenty five thousand

679
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 2: steps today and you worked all day unloading trucks, and

680
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: so you might need you know, these these numbers around

681
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 2: food and exercise instead and volume and even you know

682
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: whatever caffeine and boo like. These are not constants. They're

683
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: variables based on how your physiology is working at that

684
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: moment or in that. You know, so thinking that there's

685
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: a standard, Oh, how much water should I drink? Well,

686
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: how much do you weigh? How much water is in?

687
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: What's the water content of your diet? How much you're sweating?

688
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: How what's the temperature? Do you work in an air

689
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: condition environment? It's like, dude, there are fifty seven factors

690
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: that and even then when we factor it all in,

691
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: we're guessing.

692
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: It's an educated guesses.

693
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 3: Spot on it. Yeah, this gets back to some of

694
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: the stuff that I hear you and David Gillespie talking about.

695
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 3: You know, FAD medicine has a lot of randomized controlled trials,

696
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 3: but they are talking about population science. Yes, what you're

697
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 3: talking about is individual science and the individual or what

698
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: I call personalized care, other people call personalized care. You

699
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 3: cannot generalize, well, you can generalize, but generalizations don't always work.

700
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 3: You know. Again, Kate will tell you that a very

701
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: low calorie diet is really good for you, and if

702
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: that works for you, then that is really good for you.

703
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: And there's science that show it's really good for you.

704
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 3: But other people will say, well, iron, you can do

705
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 3: this if I do my fasting for eighteen hours. Now,

706
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: there's no evidence that one is better or the other.

707
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: There's evidence that if it works for you, it's better.

708
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: And that's what we've got to remember in healthcare that

709
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: there's personalized treatments based on generalized results. And this is

710
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: where you know. Having it's something that's bugged me for

711
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 3: many years. In cardiologies, we keep telling people risk. We

712
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 3: kept saying, oh, you've got a four percent risk of

713
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 3: this or a seven percent risk of that. Yes, And

714
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: it's very different in the oncology world. You don't say

715
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: to someone, oh, you've got a four percent risk of

716
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: breast can so you actually do a mammogram and a biops.

717
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 3: You just see if they've got it or not. And

718
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: that's where we need to get do in cardiac disease.

719
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: And that's where actually looking at your arteries and saying

720
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 3: do you have something in your arteries that we can manage?

721
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 3: That's really important because we're personalizing. We're not saying I

722
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: take one hundred people, I'm going to save three lives

723
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 3: by putting one hundred people on this drug. We're saying,

724
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 3: this is your risk, and this is what I can

725
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: do to your risk based on what I've seen in

726
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: your heart.

727
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm always talking to people about listening to

728
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: their body. I go, what's your body's saying? Because your

729
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: body's telling you stuff all the time. Right, maybe you've

730
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: got your fingers in your ears and maybe you've tuned out.

731
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: But there's a thing called biofeedback, and basically it's your

732
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: body communicating with you and it's smarter than you, so

733
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 2: you should probably tune in right and that whole without

734
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: trying to be too cliche about this, but you know,

735
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: like reconnecting with your body. It's a cliche thing, but

736
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: it's actually a true thing. Like we're so quick to

737
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: reach for a pel of powder, a potion, a needle,

738
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: a fucking whatever that removes the symptom but doesn't treat

739
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: the problem, and there's a need for that, but also

740
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: just that will you know.

741
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: Like one of my mates lives on Voltare.

742
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: And I'm like, do you know how fucking bad that

743
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: is for you? I go, do you His hips?

744
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: Fucked?

745
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 3: Right?

746
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 2: So he has Voltaire and sandwiches for lunch. I'm like, bro,

747
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: you got to like, firstly, your hip's getting worse. Secondly,

748
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: you're just metaphorically putting your fingers in your ears.

749
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: Going la la la doana No do wanta know?

750
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: But that shit is going to catch up with you soon,

751
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: if not now. So that just feel what you feel,

752
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 2: and let's explore that again.

753
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 3: There's a couple of things I tell people, one who's

754
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 3: listen to your body. The other's look in the mirror.

755
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: You don't need tests to tell you what you need

756
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: to do where you need to be healthy. By listening

757
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: to your body and looking in the mirror, you can

758
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 3: get those answers. But for the people that can't, there's

759
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 3: some really cool work being done around heart rate variability.

760
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: And you probably know heart variability. It's a really good

761
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 3: market of where your body is now. Unfortunately, most of

762
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 3: your watches don't do very accurately. But as we learn

763
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: more about this, elite athletes are using heart rate variability

764
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: to actually guide their training, and I think we should.

765
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: It's a sign. You know, this came to me during COVID.

766
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 3: We have a lot of people with implantable devices, pacemakers

767
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: and defibrillators, and we would be ringing people on a

768
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: Tuesday and saying we've seen some spikes on your defibrillator.

769
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 3: How are you doing? And that's how I'm fine. I'm fine.

770
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: The call back on Thursday and say I've just been

771
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: diagnosed with COVID. How did you know two days before

772
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 3: I felt on well? And that's because the body starts

773
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: to go off before you feel it. So if we

774
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: can get these markers and really work with that, And

775
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 3: that's what we say with your mate with the carategorist

776
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 3: about going to specifics, you know, he might have had

777
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: a really low heart rate veriability on that day and

778
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: we'd have said, Okay, today is not the day to

779
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 3: overdo it in the gym. Your body's fatigued, your bodies

780
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 3: run down. Don't do it now. If you can listen

781
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: to your body, but that takes a lot of practice.

782
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: But if you can listen to your body, great. If

783
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: you can't, let's figure out what else we can do

784
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 3: to look at this. And I think that's ten years

785
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 3: from our heart rate variability would be a really important factor. Yeah, yeah, well.

786
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: It probably is now, but it's just not accepted and recognized.

787
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: But all right, so.

788
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 3: It's just your watches aren't accurate enough. It's noise from

789
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: a watch. If you can actually use an implantable device

790
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 3: to measure heart rate variability, it is game changing. Ye,

791
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to stick something in you just

792
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: to measure heart right, veriability just yet.

793
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 2: I'd let you, I'd let you, all right. So here's

794
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you

795
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: some prompts, some words or terms, and I want you

796
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: to just riff on it. In relation to heart health,

797
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: you know, all the stuff that we're talking about, whatever

798
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: comes to mind.

799
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: One minute or so, if you can, because.

800
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: I've got I've got about eights.

801
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: So the first one is genetics.

802
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: I just got to tell you there's a rule of

803
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 3: my work that if you want DoD's my nickname at work,

804
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 3: if you want Dot to speak for ten minutes, telling

805
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: them he's got three seconds. So you've told me, I've

806
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 3: got a minute, So you've got a minute. So heart health,

807
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: you know long jeury. Genetics go absolutely fundamental in predicting

808
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 3: your risk of a lot of things, in particular heart disease.

809
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: There are multiple factors we can identify. In some of

810
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 3: those we can actually treat. The thing with genetics is

811
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: we know that people with a bad genetic profile good

812
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 3: lifestyle do far better than people with a bad genetic

813
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: profile and a bad lifestyle. So genetics are one component,

814
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 3: but it reinforces the importance of good lifestyle. Cholesterol is

815
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 3: predominantly genetic. There are certain subtypes absolutely genetic. Let's get

816
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: you treated early and get onto it. Family history of

817
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: art disease. Anyone under anyone in your family under sixty

818
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 3: five years of age that are heart attack, You ought

819
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: to be getting.

820
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: Checked you fifty eight seconds. I made that up, all right,

821
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: Next one.

822
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: So what I'm talking about here is not exercise per se,

823
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: but daily movement. So incidental occupational activity.

824
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 3: Statement. I'm pretty sure it was Steve Jobs sitting kills,

825
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 3: moving heels. I love that statement. Or sitting is the

826
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: new cancer. That might have been his statement. That might

827
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 3: have been the book after that was sitting kills.

828
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: Moving, Sitting is the new smoking has got a fair

829
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: bit of airplay.

830
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you know it's absolutely true that incidental activity.

831
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 3: And this is what I say. Never go to the

832
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 3: closest coffee machine, go to the second closest, Never go

833
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 3: to the closest toilet. If you can get our standing

834
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: desk and use it. You know, I was in the AFI. Yes,

835
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 3: they're talking about my habit, which is I do one

836
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 3: meeting every day walking so I'm based in at Melbourne.

837
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: I do a lap of the g every day siloa

838
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: to warning Saalea to Kevin Bartlett, or at least as

839
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 3: I walk around, So absolutely don't sit still. We know

840
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: that fidget has actually lived longer than non figures and

841
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: part of this is just that motion of activity that

842
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: we do during our day. So yes, yes, yes, do

843
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: as much as you can.

844
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 2: Genetics Sorry I interrupted your glass so all this stuff

845
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: and I was not genetics. Sorry, Diet diet, I know

846
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: this is I know we could do an hour on this,

847
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: so I understand. I understand the demands I'm putting on you.

848
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: So a healthy heart diet will make you live longer. Yeah,

849
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 3: defining a healthy heart diet is incredibly difficult. Yes, what's

850
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: key in ninety percent of people in Australia is we

851
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: need less calories. Now, how we get less calories is

852
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 3: the difficult question. Through a low calorie diet, through fasting,

853
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 3: through the macro nutrients. There's not a lot of evidence

854
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 3: that one's better than the other. But what's clear is

855
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 3: if eighty percent of Australians lost ten percent of their way,

856
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 3: I'd be a lot less busy and I'd love it.

857
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's that's I have a backup question that

858
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 2: if we get time, I might which.

859
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: Is very specific.

860
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: Anyway, stress stress distress, not you stress distress.

861
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: I think stress has been underappreciated for many years, and

862
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: I love the fact you're bringing it up. A lot

863
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 3: of this heart rate variability stuff that we measure as

864
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 3: a sign of stress, which can be psychological or physical.

865
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 3: There is a syndrome known as broken heart syndrome. It's real.

866
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: If your partner passes away, your risk of having a

867
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: heart attack goes up dramatically in the months after that,

868
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: and a lot of that is due to profound stress.

869
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 3: Chronic stress absolutely causes all sorts of problems. The rupture

870
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 3: of your arteries, the inflammation your arteries is triggered by stress.

871
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: So managing your stress, what I call the autonomic nervous system,

872
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: is critical, and you know the best way of doing it.

873
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: It's exercise. The second best way is routine. If you

874
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: don't have to think about stuff, if you're doing it regularly,

875
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 3: that's going to de stress you. So absolutely a well

876
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: underappreciated cause of heart possess. Well, you touched on the

877
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 3: next one. So structured exercise or an exercise a plan

878
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: that's implemented into your operating system. So for optimal heart health,

879
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 3: there's been a lot of work on this, and I

880
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 3: don't mind what you're doing, but you should be doing

881
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: some aerobic exercise most days. And again, you can define

882
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 3: aerobic a lot better than me, But I define aerobic

883
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: because you're puffed, you're sweaty, you can talk, but just

884
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 3: you get home and you're tired, you don't get home

885
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 3: and you're collapsing on the couch. That's aerobic. Now, if

886
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 3: you have a base of thirty minutes most days, or

887
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes every day, or forty five minutes three times

888
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 3: a week, that's great. But now we know on top

889
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: of that, put in some weight training, put in some

890
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: high intensity and if you get that combination together, that

891
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: really gives you the amplified effect on heart health. So

892
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 3: put the structure in, but base it around aerobic. Then

893
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: throw other stuff in as you enjoy. But again, you know,

894
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 3: no point me saying you've got to do forty five

895
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: minutes of walking. If you've got a bad hip, you've

896
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 3: got to find the exercise that works for you.

897
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so true. This one's a little bit lucy, goosey

898
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 2: and broad. So I'll let you go wherever you want

899
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: with it. Lifestyle, which I know encompasses a lot of shit,

900
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 2: but doubt.

901
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 3: Lifestyle has more impact on heart disease than anything else

902
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: we know. So lifestyle has impact on longevity, but it

903
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: has more impact on health span, which is how long

904
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: you're actually healthy for, and that to me is critical.

905
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: Lifestyle is underappreciated, and if anyone wants to criticize doctors,

906
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 3: it's we don't spend enough time on lifestyle. I know

907
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 3: I've got seven seconds Peter Attia from longevity. You know,

908
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 3: I heard the other day he's got seventy five patients.

909
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: I had ten thousand, he's got seventy five, so he

910
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 3: can afford to spend all the time on lifestyle. I

911
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: spent all my summers talking to the people at the

912
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 3: beach about lifestyle, because lifestyle is key. You get your

913
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: lifestyle right, you might still need a few medications, but

914
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: you'll need a whole lot less than if you get

915
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 3: your lifestyle wrong. So it is the number one thing

916
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 3: that we should be doing. And exercise, stress, alcohol, nutrition, sleep,

917
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 3: They form the basis of lifestyle as far as I'm concerned.

918
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I probably should have ended with that, but just

919
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: back to two more which you just kind of covered briefly,

920
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 2: but so specifically.

921
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: Booze.

922
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 2: I don't drink, so it's not a big I don't

923
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: even really get it. But booze and heart health.

924
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: There is no benefit for alcohol in heart health. That

925
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 3: is a fallacy. There was a belief once upon a

926
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 3: time a glass of red wine was good for your heart.

927
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 3: That has been disproven. There is evidence that alcohol is

928
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 3: bad for your heart, even in very low quantities. Yes,

929
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: we need to balance that with lifestyle factors, social factors.

930
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 3: And I'm quite happy to tell you that I will

931
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 3: always have a beer, and the Boxing day test matches on.

932
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: I'll love a champagne on New Year's Eve. I'll have

933
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 3: a glass of wine with some friends over dinner once

934
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 3: once or twice a month. So I don't drink. But don't.

935
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 3: Don't anyone out there think that alcohol is good for you,

936
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 3: because it's not. Alcohol at any level is bad for

937
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 3: the heart. Now where that level lies is somewhere between

938
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 3: one and two standard drinks a week. But I would

939
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: tell people if you want to drink, because it is

940
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 3: helping you in other ways. And social, you know, we

941
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 3: talk about social. You haven't mentioned that yet. Social interactions

942
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 3: are critical for good heart health. And if your social

943
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 3: interaction is having a glass of wine with some friends

944
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 3: over dinner, then keep that up. If you can't go

945
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 3: to soda water, so alcohol is bad for you, no

946
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: question about that. But I don't want to be too

947
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: rigid with people that they're having this prescriptive way of

948
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 3: living that doesn't fit with their lifestyle. I'm okay with

949
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 3: people enjoying themselves from time to time, as long as

950
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: it's not in excess.

951
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: I'm glad you raised that about socializing. Sociology, relationships, human connection, love,

952
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 2: giving love, getting love, feeling valued. It's something that I

953
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: forgot for this list, but I talk about corporately with

954
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: It's quite a almost like a red herring in a

955
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 2: corporate environment when you talk about, you know, being loved

956
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 2: and feeling valued and seen and connected, and what a

957
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: physiological impact that has, and not just on hard health,

958
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: but a bunch of things. It's funny now we talk

959
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: about the impact of whatever diet, lifestyle, exercise on your health,

960
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 2: and now we talk about the importance of that that

961
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: social connection as been possibly more important than sometimes exercise

962
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 2: or movement, depending on sorry, exercise or food at times.

963
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 3: And let's remember we're in a state where working from

964
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: homes just become mandated. I'm not sure that we're fully

965
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 3: appreciating the social impacts of that, yes, but anyway, that's

966
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 3: a separate topic. But yeah, look, there's a great book,

967
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: Lost Connections by Hari. I'm not promoting anyone that I've

968
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 3: got a relationship with there, but it really talks about

969
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: the science behind connections and you know the importance of

970
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 3: having relationships with family, relationships at work and how that

971
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 3: impacts your health, and it's really fascinating. He's more on

972
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 3: the depression side, but it's absolutely the same part disease

973
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: as well.

974
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: Quite like that, dude, he's got an interesting mind. My

975
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: last one, which is for me, the toughest one, although

976
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: it's not a big struggle, but periodically it is. I

977
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: feel like all of those like lifestyle, booze, daily movement,

978
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: you know, exercise, like they're pretty much within our control.

979
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 2: We can make a decision and just do it. But

980
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: we can't make a decision and go I'm going to

981
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: sleep great tonight. You know, it's like, yeah, your body's

982
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 2: like no, you're not, fuck off. So that to me,

983
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 2: because everything else is pretty in line For me, that's

984
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 2: that move the need all the most. If I sleep great,

985
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: I'm nine out of ten. If I sleep shit, I'm

986
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 2: a four.

987
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's been shown repeatedly in data that your

988
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 3: performance as an athlete, your stress levels are all impacted

989
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 3: by your sleep. You know, we were associated with the

990
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 3: sleep business once upon a time, and the sleep doctors

991
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 3: will tell you you can manage your own sleep, not

992
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 3: every night, but you can put in strategies to get

993
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 3: better sleep. But the fundamental thing from me is sleep

994
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 3: is profoundly impacting heart health, and these people. The other

995
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: thing we've got to remember is that we are all

996
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 3: slightly different. I do not need nine hours sleep a night.

997
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 3: I'm quite comfortable with six and a half to seven

998
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 3: and that has no impact on my metabolic features. As

999
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 3: soon as I dropped to five hours, it impacts it.

1000
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: So this sort of belief. When I was a young doctor,

1001
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 3: we used to work forty eight at seventy two hours straight.

1002
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 3: Your mind was fried. You couldn't possibly do it. So

1003
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: sleep is critical. I think people have real problems with sleep.

1004
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 3: Should say sleep specialist, not for medications, but for strategies.

1005
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 3: It's around blue light, around strategies, around what the bedroom's

1006
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 3: for around, what you have with your cup of tea

1007
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 3: before bed, all of these things that you can do.

1008
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: And I think it's about habit forming. It's the same

1009
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 3: that you've got a great habit of exercise and health,

1010
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 3: maybe your habit around sleep's not great and maybe that's

1011
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 3: something you should ask yourself about. Yeah.

1012
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a lot of bad habits. You're great.

1013
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: Can we do another one?

1014
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely? What's we talk about next time? Athletic performance shark

1015
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: attacks in Sydney. I'm an expert.

1016
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can get You're a chatty Kathy and I

1017
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: like it. Hey, Doc, promote whatever you want to promote.

1018
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 2: Point my listeners any direction you'd like them to go.

1019
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 3: Look, as I said right at the start, my mission

1020
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 3: is to improve Australia's heart health. If you're over forty five,

1021
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 3: if you've got a family history of heart disease, if

1022
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 3: you've got risk factors for heart disease, please go and

1023
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: get your heart checked. You're not going to get shoved

1024
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 3: on treat and you're going to work out what is

1025
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: your risk and what can you do about that? And

1026
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 3: if no one else is looking after your at Varahatkerell,

1027
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 3: look after you, but by all means go to your

1028
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: normal GP and get them to do this test for you.

1029
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: Amazing. Thanks so much for debuting on the EU project.

1030
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: I think they're going to like you a lot, and

1031
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 2: I think they're going.

1032
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 3: To want you back.

1033
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 2: We'll say goodbye affair, but for the minute. Thanks David.

1034
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: Really appreciate you.

1035
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 3: Awesome. Thanks for the time.