1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: As we know, a social media conference is underway in Adelaide,

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,119
Speaker 1: a summit looking at the dangers of social media. Day

3
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 1: one in Sydney yesterday, day too in Adelaide. Today the

4
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: Convention Center the Social Media Summit which kicked off yesterday.

5
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: It's a joint initiative of the South Australian Government and

6
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,959
Speaker 1: the New South Wales government and there's a number of

7
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,240
Speaker 1: speakers Today. The premiere will be announcing schools will have

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: a evidence based program to provide kids focused on tackling

9
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,920
Speaker 1: issues including cyber bullying, body image, mental health and well being.

10
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: Some absolutely terrible stories being relayed of kids who have suffered,

11
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 1: kids who have taken their lives as a result of

12
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 1: cyber bullying through social media and it's just absolutely horrific.

13
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 1: Susan MacLean has done a lot of work in this space,

14
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: Director of Cyber Safety Solutions, Susan good morning.

15
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:54,040
Speaker 2: Good morning.

16
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 1: Let them be kids is the byline of this and

17
00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 1: no parent would want anything more.

18
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,680
Speaker 3: No, and that's correct, and we need to make sure

19
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 3: that young people, for as long as possible, as much

20
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 3: as possible, are protected. It doesn't mean we put our

21
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 3: head in the sand, and it doesn't mean that we

22
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 3: don't acknowledge that there are benefits to technology which are enormous,

23
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,160
Speaker 3: but we need to be working on a making the

24
00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,760
Speaker 3: platform safer for the user. We need better action, We

25
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 3: need schools to act more promptly when it comes to cyberbilieve,

26
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:28,959
Speaker 3: and we need parents to do their thing as well.

27
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 3: So it can't be in isolation. It has to be

28
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,760
Speaker 3: a cooperative approach.

29
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 1: This is nothing that hasn't been said before. You and

30
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 1: I have had conversations over a number of years exactly this.

31
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: So is this going to change anything this summer today?

32
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 1: Can this really work?

33
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:45,640
Speaker 4: That?

34
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 1: Banning kids on social media? And the premiere is saying

35
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 1: our premieer is saying, well, as old as we can

36
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 1: make it, but will be guided by the FEDS in that.

37
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: So you know, whether it's fourteen or sixteen or fifteen,

38
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: is it going to change anything?

39
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 4: And can it really be effective?

40
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 3: Such a band, Matthew, Nothing that was presented yesterday in

41
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,400
Speaker 3: New South Wales is anything new than what I have

42
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 3: been saying for many years. It was just said by

43
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 3: different people. So we are certainly going around in circles

44
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,240
Speaker 3: for me. As I've also said, and this is evidenced

45
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,040
Speaker 3: by the Usagey Commissioner's research that came out yesterday. Age

46
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,320
Speaker 3: verification is not the issue. The platforms putting eight year

47
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,920
Speaker 3: olds on their platforms is not the issue. It is

48
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 3: the fact that over eighty percent of these children that

49
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 3: are on the platform's under thirteen were put there by parents.

50
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 2: Parents signed them up raised, so they've helped them lie.

51
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,359
Speaker 2: So raising the age to sixteen, those saying parents are

52
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 2: still going to help their children lie. So we're going

53
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 2: to be no better off. We've got to get to

54
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 2: the core of this. And we've got to get to.

55
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,520
Speaker 3: The why why do parents think they're putting their eight

56
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 3: year old on TikTok?

57
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:56,800
Speaker 2: Is a good idea?

58
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,080
Speaker 4: Is it just because kid pressure? Is that? What does it?

59
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 4: You know, I've got to keep up with the other

60
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 4: kids at school.

61
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is certainly peer pressure. I think

62
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 3: there is a distinct lack of understanding about the reality.

63
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 3: It's often, well, I don't see bad stuff on TikTok,

64
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 3: therefore it's sient for my child. Just yesterday there was

65
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:25,600
Speaker 3: some studies released in the UK about the pedophile haven

66
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 3: that is roadlocked. Again nothing new. Pedophiles go where children

67
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 3: hang out and if there are limited security settings. They

68
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 3: will go there in their millions because they know they

69
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 3: have easy pickings.

70
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 4: It's really scary.

71
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: But I suppose that a kid might use the emotional argument, Well,

72
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 1: you worried about me being bullying online, I'm getting bullied

73
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 1: by not being allowed to go online because I'm the

74
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 1: only one in the class who's not on TikTok or

75
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 1: whatever it might be.

76
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, that is an argument I hear a lot.

77
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 3: I can also guarantee those parents that their child will

78
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 3: not be the only one that is not on. It

79
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 3: is a perception. But this gets down to the culture

80
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 3: of the school and a friendship group. You know, if

81
00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 3: you love putting your friend down because they're not allowed

82
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 3: to do something that you are, you're not really a

83
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 3: good friend.

84
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 4: But kids don't think that way. Sorry, kids don't think

85
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:16,839
Speaker 4: that way.

86
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,800
Speaker 3: No, kids don't think that way. But that's why, you know,

87
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,359
Speaker 3: we need to do more in relation to teaching, unfortunately,

88
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,240
Speaker 3: children how to interact with each other, how to be

89
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 3: a good friend, what does a good friend look like,

90
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,359
Speaker 3: how to be a respectful person, and then that is

91
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 3: going to set them up for the rest of their life.

92
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,359
Speaker 3: You know, this is the problem we're seeing adults that

93
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 3: have never shown respect to anyone else and they take

94
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,039
Speaker 3: that with them into the adult world, and then the

95
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,520
Speaker 3: consequences are clearly far more serious.

96
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well that's exactly right.

97
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,839
Speaker 1: And you know I've got a text here from Bill

98
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,800
Speaker 1: who says, is this just a talk fast?

99
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 4: We need action? What does action look like?

100
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,839
Speaker 3: Well, this is the thing that if the cynic in

101
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,480
Speaker 3: me would say, the federal government didn't have to spend

102
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 3: any money on this issue because the two states decided

103
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,480
Speaker 3: to run this. So they've sort of, you know, shifted,

104
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 3: shifted responsibility two states. They'll sit back and then they'll

105
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 3: look at what happened and then work out what they

106
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 3: might need to do it. It is a talk fest,

107
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,560
Speaker 3: without a shadow of a doubt, A lot of this

108
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 3: could have been done. I would suggest a whole lot

109
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 3: cheaper with less cost. But what we want out of

110
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,600
Speaker 3: it is something that is going to work. There is

111
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,679
Speaker 3: no good going yet. We're going to wave a magic

112
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 3: wand and ban everyone from social media until they're sixteen

113
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,960
Speaker 3: if it can't happen, and it's uninenforceable, because that's the

114
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,159
Speaker 3: way for me work with what we've got. We have

115
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 3: thirteen all right, it's poorly managed. But let's work with

116
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 3: what we already have.

117
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:50,359
Speaker 2: If you raise it.

118
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 3: To sixteen, what the platforms can then say as well,

119
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 3: you're not meant to be hit or sixteen the content

120
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,359
Speaker 3: will be suitable for sixteen and a bus, So it

121
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,039
Speaker 3: will be even worse because you know they will go. Well,

122
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 3: not my responsibility. We need the platforms to be fit

123
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 3: for purpose. We need them to do better when it

124
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 3: comes to child safety on mind. We need better reporting,

125
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 3: we need police at a better train. But again it

126
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 3: has to be done together. It can't be one or

127
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:20,360
Speaker 3: the other.

128
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So is legislation, federal legislation.

129
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: The answer cracking down on the platforms is that what's

130
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:28,640
Speaker 1: going to take me?

131
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 3: I think what what looks promising and I think this

132
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 3: is probably the better way to go. Is currently in America,

133
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,799
Speaker 3: where thirteen is part of the Copper Act, it makes

134
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,159
Speaker 3: it a criminal offense for a platform to gather data

135
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 3: on someone under thirteen. So that's where the thirteens come from.

136
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:55,840
Speaker 3: So therefore the platform can get punished when under thirteens

137
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,599
Speaker 3: remain on the platform, so there is an incentive to

138
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 3: remove them if you like. So I think that's what

139
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 3: we need to be looking at in that keep it

140
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,279
Speaker 3: at thirteen here, but put it into legislation so that

141
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 3: when these kids are there, they're not punished. It's their fault.

142
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 3: Their parents help them life. But the platform is, and

143
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 3: that means the platform will be forced by default to

144
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 3: have better or bring in some sort of decent age verification.

145
00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 3: Easther removal of accounts. There were some statues today about

146
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 3: the percentage of kids under thirteen that are on the

147
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 3: platforms versus how many under thirteen accounts that were removed.

148
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 3: So we need better transparency from the platform, and we

149
00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 3: need everyone to work together. I don't like going into

150
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 3: schools and seeing parents pitched against each other, which I'm

151
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 3: starting to see. We need the world community education. It's

152
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 3: a community and we all should be working together, not

153
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 3: against each other.

154
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, so is that the message you're presenting.

155
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 3: I didn't. I'm not presenting in that. I'm here at

156
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 3: the delegate I was invited.

157
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 2: To be involved in.

158
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 3: Originally I was going to be Japan this week and

159
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 3: my schedule changed, so by the time I let the

160
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 3: government know I was actually available to speak, they had

161
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 3: field those spaces. Ye, So I'm here to keep them honest.

162
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 1: Good on you. I'm sure you will. Thank you Susan

163
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: for your time. Hope it goes well. Thanks Matthew Susan McLean,

164
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 1: who is the director Cyber Safety Solutions