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Speaker 1: Good day, Welcome to the show. This is better than yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Useful tools and useful conversations to help your day to day.

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Speaker 1: Become better than yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Every single week since twenty thirteen. And since twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you, we've had a lot of great

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Speaker 2: dads on the show today. I mean, I am a dad,

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Speaker 2: I am a stepdad, but there are other dads on

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Speaker 2: the show today. My name's Osha Ginsburg. Thanks for being

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Speaker 2: a part of it. It is Father's Day in Australia

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Speaker 2: this weekend, and in honor of Father's Day, in honor

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Speaker 2: of the many great dads we've had on the show,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be hearing some of the best bits from.

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Speaker 1: Four of them.

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Speaker 2: Four fathers for Father's Day. Try saying that for four

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Speaker 2: times fast. Four fathers for Father's Day, four father's, Father's stay,

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Speaker 2: four fathers.

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Speaker 1: Now speaking of Father's Day, great gifts for Father's Day.

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Speaker 1: So what now?

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Speaker 2: What the new book from Osha Againsberg, get it right now? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a great freaking book and the audiobook is are amazing.

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Speaker 1: Cam Walker did.

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Speaker 2: The audio design at the sound designer that it's incredible.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for leaving the reviews.

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Speaker 3: I love getting your reviews.

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Speaker 1: I love reading them.

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Speaker 2: Ount Pete left review on Amazon. What hit me reading

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Speaker 2: this was how simple but sharp? The question is, so

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Speaker 2: what now what? We've all had those moments where we're

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Speaker 2: stuck in the muck, and Osha shares how that one

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Speaker 2: line can shift you forward. It's not dressed up in jargon.

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Speaker 2: It feels just straight to the point. The mix of

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Speaker 2: words and illustrations makes it land even harder. Doesn't feel

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Speaker 2: like a heavy self help book, Well, thank you, Pete.

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Speaker 2: It isn't, and it.

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Speaker 1: Is useful, and it is all of those things. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so so much.

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Speaker 2: While I'm plugging things of this weekend story Club, there

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Speaker 2: are some tickets left, but it's gonna I think it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be a full house, So get in if you can.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Han, Greteley Jackson, John Glover, Sashi Pereira, Nigel Marsh

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Speaker 2: and Me. Story Club Live Stories, Love on Stage, Absolutely

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Speaker 2: True Factory Theater, Mary Fuel get the link in the

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Speaker 2: show notes. The theme this week in is pants on fire. Now,

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Speaker 2: as far as fun things they do on Father's Day,

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Speaker 2: that's a fun thing to do on fathers They take

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Speaker 2: your dad to story club and listen.

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Speaker 1: To the rest of the episode, which is coming up after.

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Speaker 2: This Father's Day, the twenty twenty five edition of Father's

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Speaker 2: Day for the show, Part one of two. I guess

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Speaker 2: because next week on the podcast we have another very special.

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Speaker 1: Father's Day guest.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to mention who it is just yet.

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Speaker 2: Follow the podcast if you want to find that out,

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Speaker 2: but it's coming by next week. This episode, we're going

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Speaker 2: to hear some pretty fantastic fatherly wisdom and advice from

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Speaker 2: Dave Hughes, the comedian, stoic expert and author Ryan Holiday,

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Speaker 2: developmental and behavioral pediatrician doctor Billy Garvey, and we shall

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Speaker 2: kick off with none other than the twenty twenty three

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Speaker 2: Father of the Year, mister Hamish Blake. What a fantastic

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Speaker 2: conversation here and I had. This's part of a longer chat.

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Speaker 2: You can go back and listen to the full thing,

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Speaker 2: but here he talks about how, even while doing his job,

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Speaker 2: he's thinking it of ways to brighten the love of

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Speaker 2: his family, how he thinks about creating moments and memories

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Speaker 2: for his kids and his family, and the value of play.

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Speaker 5: There was a time in the first episode where maybe

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Speaker 5: there was an air of relief because I was like, no,

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Speaker 5: the thing I gambled on caring about yeah, because you know,

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Speaker 5: it's not like I've been to thousands of Lego conventions.

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Speaker 5: I'm not an adult lego builder, Like, I don't know

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Speaker 5: this world. But I was gambling on the fact that

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Speaker 5: if I'm in the room, I reckon, I'll care. I

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Speaker 5: reckon I'll be interested. But I don't know, but I'm

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Speaker 5: taking a punt.

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Speaker 1: That I will be.

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Speaker 5: And I think there was that moment getting into the room,

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Speaker 5: you start to meet the people, you see it all

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Speaker 5: come to life. Definitely a feeling of relief, going great,

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Speaker 5: I care, I do care.

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Speaker 6: This is great.

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Speaker 5: I'm so relieved to find that I'm really interested in

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Speaker 5: this and I find the competition fun and I find

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Speaker 5: these people fun. And I was like, oh, few, this

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Speaker 5: is going to be a long two months of pretending.

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Speaker 2: Did it change the way that you're not just lego

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Speaker 2: but change the way you play with your kids?

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Speaker 5: Good question? I think it. I think a little bit, yes,

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Speaker 5: a little bit no, Like I reckon, I lego. The

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Speaker 5: actual Lego level was probably a few years ahead of

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Speaker 5: where I took the job. A little bit to impress

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Speaker 5: my son because he was five at the time or four.

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Speaker 5: At the time two five, we were right. We were

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Speaker 5: into Lego. We were buying Lego, like I was still

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Speaker 5: sort of mostly building it, but we're doing it together,

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Speaker 5: and it was beginning to be a fun thing. And

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Speaker 5: I was like, I think he's I think this is

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Speaker 5: gonna really to impress him. And then he really didn't

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Speaker 5: care that much about the show. I was like, no,

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Speaker 5: I'll bring him to say It. Like every night I

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Speaker 5: would bring stuff home from say It, like I've made

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Speaker 5: him a little bits and pieces. And the first season

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Speaker 5: I would make I'd try every day to build something

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Speaker 5: for my wife, for Zoe. And then just like an

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Speaker 5: in joke or like a thing from our life was

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Speaker 5: some random thing, you know, Like one of them was,

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Speaker 5: she hates the song Bat out of Hell, So I

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Speaker 5: made a bat in a cage in hell, but chained

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Speaker 5: in the cave so the bat could never get out

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Speaker 5: of hell. Like so that was like some really weird

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Speaker 5: deep because I was like, by first few days, it's

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Speaker 5: all your standard in jokes that you have with your partner,

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Speaker 5: like ah, you know, like we like bees. I made

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Speaker 5: your bee. And then by day eight I was like

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Speaker 5: sort of run out of all our references here, and

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Speaker 5: then I would just make I'd be like, hey, Brickman,

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Speaker 5: can you make me a plane? And then he'd because

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Speaker 5: you know, we're about to go on holidays, and he'd

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Speaker 5: make a plane, and then I'd take it home, and

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Speaker 5: so I'd be like, this is good.

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Speaker 6: These are this is really good. Damn it.

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Speaker 5: I got Brickman to make that one. But I'd try

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Speaker 5: and make the things for something to be like, what

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Speaker 5: do you want me to make it? Like make a

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Speaker 5: drag and with wheels or something like okay, great, So

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Speaker 5: I'd try and do that at work and i'd try

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Speaker 5: and bring it home. But even then he was just

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Speaker 5: like kind of nonplast and I was saying him like

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Speaker 5: I'm working with lego, like every day we have millions

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Speaker 5: of pieces of lego. And then to the first time

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Speaker 5: I bought him, and was probably a month into shooting,

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Speaker 5: and like on the set, like you stop for lunch.

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Speaker 5: Everyone sort of like hands off the clock stops, the

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Speaker 5: contestants get to go and have lunch, which I'm sure

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Speaker 5: if people thought about they would realize we don't make

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Speaker 5: them for like twelve hours with no toilet brecks at lunch.

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Speaker 5: But that's what happens. So at lunch the room is

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Speaker 5: kind of mid build and there's Lego everywhere, but it's

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Speaker 5: it's just sort of frozen in time. And so I

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Speaker 5: took something on set at lunch time when we're walking

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Speaker 5: around and.

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Speaker 6: Just did the big reveal. I'm like, what are you?

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Speaker 6: Here we go?

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Speaker 5: This is Dad's work. Pretty fucking cool, isn't it? Like

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Speaker 5: here we go, this is the Lego show. And Something's like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I know you told me about this, like this is

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Speaker 5: so it was like it completely just he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: you've been talking about this for a month.

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Speaker 6: This is what I expected. I was like, right, that's.

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Speaker 5: A good lesson. I should have told him I worked

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Speaker 5: at like the Umbrella factory or something and then surprised him,

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Speaker 5: although he probably would have been like, ah, I want umbrella.

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Speaker 5: So it has it wasn't that impressive until this year

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Speaker 5: this season, he's into it.

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Speaker 6: Like now he's like he's.

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Speaker 5: Watching it on catch up. He's like, I can hear

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Speaker 5: it on any other room. He like running and be.

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Speaker 6: Like, Dad, guess who won? Guess who won? I'm like,

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Speaker 6: I don't, I don't know who who got it. He's

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Speaker 6: like gussin David they're Tiger.

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Speaker 5: I like, no way, incredible, can see me on the

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Speaker 5: screen right, Like, you know I've heard of this already,

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Speaker 5: does it he's so he's talked about it. So in

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Speaker 5: terms of Lego, in terms of the playfulness or like

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Speaker 5: the creativity on the show, I actually have learned a lot.

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Speaker 5: I think I have learned a lot of those lessons

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Speaker 5: and applied them in other areas of life. And definitely, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's a good question, because I reckon I owe Lego

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Speaker 5: a lot for you know, I'm just a big fan

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Speaker 5: of you know, like I don't think any level of

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Speaker 5: effort is too much to create a fun memory at home,

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Speaker 5: like I love. I'm just a big fan of effort,

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Speaker 5: the effort reward multiplier for making memories. I just think

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Speaker 5: it's always worth it.

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Speaker 1: Where does that come from?

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Speaker 6: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: It's a really good question. It's probably one for you know,

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Speaker 5: my therapist. But I reckon it's maybe it's it's you

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Speaker 5: look back and not saying that I didn't have an

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Speaker 5: exciting childhood. But I think it's that thing of going, oh,

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Speaker 5: it happens. So maybe it's a reaction to realizing how

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Speaker 5: fast it happens too. With kids, right, and just going

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Speaker 5: you've got no time. It's likely like I sort of

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Speaker 5: think the critical mistake you can make is putting it

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Speaker 5: off right just to go, oh, maybe it will do

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Speaker 5: a fun memory tomorrow, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: I can just see how that would be such a

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Speaker 5: slippery slope. And then they're not five anymore, they're not

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Speaker 5: six anymore, they're not three anymore. And so I think

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Speaker 5: I just have a ferocious kind of drive to just go,

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Speaker 5: let's not miss any moments. You're like, let's not let's

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Speaker 5: take all our shots, even if they're dud memories, or

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Speaker 5: you know, I just don't think you can have a

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Speaker 5: dud memory. I think it's like, if you put putting

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Speaker 5: the effort in and you're open to your kid's curiosity

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Speaker 5: and you can pivot and twist and turn, you'll always

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Speaker 5: end up somewhere fun. And I get that's my favorite

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Speaker 5: part about being a dad, Like you get tons out

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Speaker 5: of it. But I think Lego has given us a

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Speaker 5: lot of that too, because that's the spirit of Lego, right,

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Speaker 5: So it definitely helps being surrounded by that all day,

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Speaker 5: like standing in a building where the whole ethos that

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Speaker 5: everyone believes and lives is anything's possible.

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Speaker 6: You can make anything that happen, even.

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Speaker 5: If you go home and that becomes that means you're

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Speaker 5: making characters out of the fruit in the fruit bowl.

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Speaker 5: I think it still comes from being surrounded by that creativity.

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Speaker 1: Or and that play has value. Plays is not a thing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I remember as a kids like not playtime,

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Speaker 2: boys like I remember that, but plays really important. It's

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Speaker 2: really important to work out your brain in different ways

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Speaker 2: and allow your subconscious to feed and work out and

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Speaker 2: figure things out, because it's when you're doing that stuff

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Speaker 2: the ideas for the other things show up.

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Speaker 5: I agree in the middle, agree completely, and it's it's

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Speaker 5: sort of like and you have I'm a big fan

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Speaker 5: of just like freestyle playing right, Like in the same

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Speaker 5: way that for people who are interested in fitness, like sure,

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Speaker 5: go to the gym or whatever, but just walking around

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Speaker 5: and being active, just going from being at the beach

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Speaker 5: and swimming and playing with your friends, like that's also

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Speaker 5: important rather than just like okay, I do forty five,

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Speaker 5: Like it can exist in that moment, like you can

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Speaker 5: do you can do the big stuff with your kids

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Speaker 5: and be like, right, we're going to the movies or

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Speaker 5: we're going to loot a park. But it's the play

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Speaker 5: that's the real life. Like it's the playfulness that's real life.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, that and Bluey it's probably.

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Speaker 6: I still that's what blue is about.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, and it's day from Custard.

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Speaker 6: I just can't get I met him the other day, right,

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Speaker 6: shut up.

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Speaker 2: You got to get him on, get him on him

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Speaker 2: from playing in bands in Brisbane back in the olden days.

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Speaker 5: So at the opera house like, so I got I've

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Speaker 5: been lucky enough to be a guest dog, I'm blue

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Speaker 5: and I mean the next season right, So I think

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Speaker 5: from that, like loose Association, they were like, hey, we're

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Speaker 5: doing They've got the live shine at the moment Popper

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Speaker 5: tiers on stage, which are really good.

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Speaker 3: It's really it's Q but without us wearing Yeah.

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Speaker 6: It's really it's.

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Speaker 5: Really beautifully done too because it allows I thought it

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Speaker 5: was going to be people in mascot outfits and who

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Speaker 5: were there actually at this like event we went to

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Speaker 5: We went and I took my little girl and we

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Speaker 5: went to like there's like a little before morning tea

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Speaker 5: and the Bingo and Bluey were there in the mascot

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Speaker 5: outfits and then they had they had to go and

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Speaker 5: I was like, all right, do they have to go

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Speaker 5: and get ready for the show. And they're like no, no, no,

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Speaker 5: they're not. We're not using those ones or.

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Speaker 6: Use like puppets.

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Speaker 5: It's like, okay, way better because there's not only so

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Speaker 5: much you can do with a giant mascot outfit.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So the show itself is really beautiful and it's it's

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Speaker 5: written by Joe Brahman, Like it makes you cry a

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Speaker 5: little bit in it, just like every Blue episode. So

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Speaker 5: it's a really it's a really well done show. But

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Speaker 5: so with the cast was there beforehand and Dave McCormick,

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Speaker 5: like the voice of Bandit come said oh get ahe

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Speaker 5: let me say you're going. It's like as the most

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Speaker 5: starstrucker been for a long time, just hearing Bandits Save

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Speaker 5: my Boys, because it is him right, Like it's just

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Speaker 5: he's not really putting on a voice.

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Speaker 2: It's just I do love it as a show because

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Speaker 2: it really is that just kind of play and make belief,

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Speaker 2: that beautiful sweet spot where they know it's fake, you

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Speaker 2: know it's fake, but it's still.

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Speaker 6: But I go so deep on the writing tour.

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Speaker 5: I just love the writing of Blues so much because

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Speaker 5: there's always a moment in an episode where it's like,

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Speaker 5: you know, Mum and Dad playing like Balanchi, they're playing

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Speaker 5: the game, and you realize, let's say, sort of two

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Speaker 5: thirds of the way in that they knew that, you know,

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Speaker 5: they're acting like their surprise, they're sort of pretending to

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Speaker 5: be facing the same challenges as the kids. But then

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Speaker 5: you get a little hint as to how much effort

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Speaker 5: they've put in behind the scenes to set it up.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: On the show.

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Speaker 2: On this podcast, as I say up the top there,

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Speaker 2: we're into practical tools.

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Speaker 1: We're into useful things you can use.

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Speaker 2: And one that father of three, Dave Hughes is big

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Speaker 2: on a tool which he was really really big on,

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Speaker 2: which you may not expect, is meditation. Now we recorded

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Speaker 2: this during the COVID lockdown, so I hope now the

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Speaker 2: way Dave's voice sounds doesn't give you too many flashbacks

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Speaker 2: of the.

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Speaker 1: Awkward zoom calls and what we're all living with.

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Speaker 2: But the way he talks about meditation here in this

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Speaker 2: little bit here that I'm going to play really grounds

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Speaker 2: it makes it something. It's not lofty, it's not a

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Speaker 2: thing that you do up in the cave and a

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Speaker 2: hill with a robe on. There's something quite approachable, sothing

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Speaker 2: you can do on the bus, on the train, not

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Speaker 2: while driving, but also shows how it makes each moment

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Speaker 2: as a parent and as a person far brighter. And

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Speaker 2: what's even wilder is that you know Dave Hughes and

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Speaker 2: the man that's about to open your mind to meditation

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Speaker 2: is the voice of Dave Hughes.

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Speaker 7: Mate, every moment we should just be going wow.

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Speaker 8: We should be like every moment that we're alive. We

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Speaker 8: should be like the first note cone we've ever pulled,

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Speaker 8: where we're gone, oh my god, this is amazan, this

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Speaker 8: is what what that should be all the time, but

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Speaker 8: we spend most of our time worrying about bullshit.

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Speaker 1: So when did you come to this?

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Speaker 7: I come to it all the time and I remember

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Speaker 7: it all the time.

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Speaker 8: Nowhere near perfect, but it just it just slowly it

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Speaker 8: occurs to me, or does it happens again. It's just

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Speaker 8: I just have these road these moments where I go,

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Speaker 8: hang on, fuck, it's amazing to be alive.

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Speaker 7: And it's I don't.

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Speaker 8: Know, man, but we just we just should be wowing

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Speaker 8: it the whole time, to be wowing it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I had to go to a Buddhist retreat

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Speaker 2: in my twenties to even begin to scratch the surface

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Speaker 2: of this kind of thing like where, how did you

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Speaker 2: get exposed?

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Speaker 8: As kind of thinking, well, you know what a Buddhist

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Speaker 8: retreat is something that I definitely similar experience. So I

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Speaker 8: got I went to a Buddhist service back in Perth

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Speaker 8: when I was living over there at the age of

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Speaker 8: twenty one. I think and sat, you know where, you

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Speaker 8: sat in a room with you know, a monk who

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Speaker 8: led the congregation, so to speak, and for half an

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Speaker 8: hour no one was allowed to speak, And I honestly thought,

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Speaker 8: fuck that.

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Speaker 7: I grew up in the Catholic Church, and you know,

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Speaker 7: I've been to.

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Speaker 8: Many church services over many years, but it was more

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Speaker 8: powerful that half an hour of not speaking, because I thought,

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Speaker 8: at the end of the half hour, no one had

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Speaker 8: spoken any bullshit. And it's that silence that we all,

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Speaker 8: we all end up going back to. That's the joy,

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Speaker 8: that's the real stuff, that that what is it. It's

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Speaker 8: the ore and the mystery of whatever this is, and

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Speaker 8: we can we can choose to acknowledge it and revel

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Speaker 8: in it, revel in that mystery and that great beyond.

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Speaker 2: Is it something that you you practice, is that you

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Speaker 2: have a practice every day.

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Speaker 7: I meditated yesterday, and I meditate most days. I've had

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Speaker 7: many years of not doing that. Whenever I do, I

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Speaker 7: never regret it. It's like someone who exercises.

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Speaker 8: You don't regret having exercise, but then you think, why

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Speaker 8: did I exercise the last month? And meditation is very

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Speaker 8: similar to that, as in it is well worth it

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Speaker 8: for any moment anyone. And people might be listening as

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Speaker 8: I say it to people, they go, I can't do it.

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Speaker 8: I say, yeah, But even trying to do it means

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Speaker 8: you are doing it because even sitting there for five

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Speaker 8: minutes with everything shut and just quietly, at least you're

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Speaker 8: acknowledging the fact that your brain is zing and you're

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Speaker 8: noticing those thoughts. And it's all of meditation is just

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Speaker 8: noticing the thoughts that you have. And the more you notice,

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Speaker 8: you know, hopefully the more they sort of just drift

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Speaker 8: to the background. So, yeah, meditation is a great thing

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Speaker 8: for anyone to do, and you can do it anywhere.

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Speaker 8: Meditation is just being where you are at any moment.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 8: It's like it's driving driving without the radio on. I mean,

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Speaker 8: I'm on radio, so it's a terrible thing for you

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Speaker 8: to say. But if you can drive without the radio on,

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Speaker 8: say for ten minutes, and then just you're in the moment.

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Speaker 8: So anytime you can switch off all the bullshit around

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Speaker 8: you is a meditation.

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Speaker 1: Because that's the big thing.

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Speaker 2: People have this misconception of meditation that if I meditate correctly,

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Speaker 2: my mind is quiet.

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Speaker 3: But that's not really what it is, is it.

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Speaker 8: No, it's just noticing what you're thinking. It's just that

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Speaker 8: it's stepping back and being the observer of that brain,

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Speaker 8: you know. And as I say again, I say to

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Speaker 8: my kids, you're producing all those thoughts. They're like a

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Speaker 8: sausage factory where you're just producing thought after thought after thought.

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Speaker 7: Just in your mind.

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Speaker 8: If you can step back from that and see the

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Speaker 8: production of thought, see how one thought link to another

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Speaker 8: thought links to another thought, And that is meditation.

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Speaker 7: It's just noticing of what you're thinking.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's the popular culture is that when they

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Speaker 2: show a meditator, it's someone usually in a robe, sitting

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Speaker 2: cross legged with their eyes closed and still, and the

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Speaker 2: perception is like, well, they clearly haven't got you know, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I kind of need to pee.

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Speaker 1: Where's my shoe?

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Speaker 3: I can't remember?

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Speaker 1: Did I put this to the cat out?

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Speaker 3: Why's France so far away?

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Speaker 1: To trogs like chocolate?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 2: You know, they think that that's not what's going on,

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Speaker 2: but exactly what you're saying. That person is sitting there,

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Speaker 2: probably just being mindful of their breed, and they're probably

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Speaker 2: quite good at what they're doing. Yet it really is noticing.

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Speaker 1: I've heard it.

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Speaker 2: It's like watching back when we could see a parade

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Speaker 2: go by, or watching a river flow past, or just

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Speaker 2: watching a freeway of traffic just going oh look, red car, oh,

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Speaker 2: blue cart, another truck.

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Speaker 3: Ah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: And you can either choose to stand in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the freeway or it can stand on the side

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Speaker 2: watch it all go by. And in the noticing, as

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Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier in the conversation, in the noticing, is

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Speaker 2: the power to decide.

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Speaker 1: What you do about it. And I think that's the

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Speaker 1: real key.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 8: It's like those thoughts go past, and you can choose

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Speaker 8: to be on that thought raft and get taken down

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Speaker 8: the river, or you can step back from the river

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Speaker 8: and just see the thoughts go past and let them

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Speaker 8: go let them go and don't let them take you

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Speaker 8: down a dark hole, which we often do get taken down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a time in my life when I

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Speaker 2: was on a medication that wouldn't allow me to get

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Speaker 2: to that point, and I got quite downhearder that I

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Speaker 2: couldn't reach this spot of that observance. But then someone

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Speaker 2: explained to me, Oh, this is because you're on these meads.

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Speaker 2: Your brain actually can't get to that point.

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Speaker 6: Oh okay.

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Speaker 2: Then and then as I changed meads, it got a

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Speaker 2: little easier, and in fact, on the meds on one

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Speaker 2: now it does become a whole lot easier. And I

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Speaker 2: found sometimes even just if I use the words, if

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Speaker 2: I've put it from a verbal cortex, if I just

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Speaker 2: say I'm noticing, like I'm noticing I'm feeling kind of angry. Well,

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Speaker 2: I'm noticing I'm feeling nervous, that is enough sometimes to

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Speaker 2: make me then well, now i'm observing that thought, I

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Speaker 2: can go Okay, Like, I still have to ride out

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Speaker 2: the adrenaline or write out the you know, the flush

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Speaker 2: of emotion in my body, but at least I can

437
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 2: hopefully make better choices in that moment.

438
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, I look being aware It's all about awareness and

439
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 8: being aware of the fact that your brain is it

440
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 8: goes off on its own, but it doesn't really you

441
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 8: are actually making those decisions. But if you can step

442
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 8: back from the thought process, you can see how the

443
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 8: decisions are being made by your brain and it's Yeah,

444
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 8: stepping away and stepping back is a very valuable thing

445
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 8: to do, absolutely, and I'm doing it more and more

446
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 8: in my life and I appreciate it.

447
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: How do you find, like we've done a lot of lockdown?

448
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 2: Your Melbourne's not looking great as far as another lockdown goes.

449
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 2: You've you know, your your wife teachers, You've got three

450
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,199
Speaker 2: kids at home. How do you even find time in

451
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 2: the in a house of chaos and pets and animals, kids,

452
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: to find space to sit?

453
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 7: Well, you know, you can always find twenty minutes. You

454
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 7: can absolutely, generally you can find twenty minutes, but again

455
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 7: you don't. You can be meditating while you do in

456
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 7: the dishes.

457
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 8: You can be meditating while you're picking up all of

458
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 8: the rubbish that your kids have left on the ground,

459
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 8: or that you the dog in the backyard.

460
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 7: It can be any moment, and.

461
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 8: We should choose to treat every moment like a meditation,

462
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 8: and it's yeah, it's all about being aware of the

463
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 8: fact that you're here now, and that's it, and this

464
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 8: is amazing.

465
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 7: Life is incredible, Every moment is incredible, and all the

466
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 7: noise is bullshit. It's all bullshit.

467
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 8: My dad, he didn't reach any great heights in a

468
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,360
Speaker 8: career at all or whatever. You know, He's like going,

469
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 8: he'sed to go fishing, and he would just put a

470
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 8: ride in the river and just sit there and just stare.

471
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 7: And I had to think, how can he do that?

472
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 9: Now?

473
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 7: I just think that is wisdom.

474
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 8: Just to be able to sit there and contemplate the

475
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 8: factory life.

476
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 7: There's all anyone.

477
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 6: Needs to do.

478
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 2: It's our Father's Day Special twenty twenty five. Ryan Holiday,

479
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 2: the brilliant Ryan Holiday, great author, public speaker, bookshop owner.

480
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: He's one of the world's foremost experts on Stoic philosophy,

481
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 2: well over the last thousand years or so. There's been

482
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: many before that, but he's not recently the guy. In

483
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 2: this part of our conversation that he and I had

484
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 2: some time ago, we talk about how the four Stoic

485
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 2: virtues can be applied to basically any problem you're facing

486
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 2: inside or outside.

487
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: Of parenting, and how.

488
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: These four Stoic virtues have led him to become far

489
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 2: more deliberate about how he curates not only his time,

490
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: but also his whole life. After Confessions of a Media Manipulator,

491
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 2: A lot of the work I standed around stoicism. You've

492
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: mentioned it already. What was it the first drew you

493
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 2: towards stoicism?

494
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 9: Right?

495
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, the order that I wrote the books in is

496
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 10: sort of unrepresentative, and that I was introduced to stoicism

497
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 10: before I did anything in marketing. I was introduced to

498
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 10: stoicism when I was probably eighteen or nineteen years old.

499
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 10: I was in college and I went to this conference

500
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 10: and I asked the speaker for a book recommendation, and

501
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 10: he turned me on to stoicism. Now, it took a

502
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 10: while for these ideas to really penetrate and sort of

503
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 10: become what I built my life around. But it was

504
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 10: precisely stoicism that I was sort of grasping towards as

505
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 10: I was stuck in this kind of deeply unethical, confusing,

506
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 10: tempting profession, and as I was trying to manage all

507
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 10: the inputs that were thrown at me and being successful

508
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 10: early and trying to figure out what I wanted to

509
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 10: do with my life. To me, stoicism is kind of

510
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 10: like a set of principles that you live by, and

511
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 10: so I feel lucky to have learned it early.

512
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 9: I feel like I had a sort of.

513
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 10: An intervening career before I really focused on writing about it.

514
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 10: But it's sort of been the philosophy I've tried to

515
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 10: live almost my entire adult life by.

516
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: And it seems that every day, every week, another book

517
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 2: comes out that aims to help Pauss deal with modern life.

518
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 2: Yet from reading your books, it seems that everything that

519
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: we need to know who has already been thought about fare.

520
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, look in Ecclesiastes, they say there's sort

521
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 10: of nothing new under the sun. Marcus Aurelius is not

522
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 10: a big fan of the Christians, but he said the

523
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 10: exact same thing. It's like history is the same thing

524
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 10: happening over and over again. It's people fighting over money,

525
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 10: trying to get famous, trying to get somebody to sleep

526
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 10: with them, trying.

527
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 9: To have a nice, happy life.

528
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 10: Like as long as humans have been being humans, or

529
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,479
Speaker 10: as long as humans have lived in cities. Let's say,

530
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 10: if you don't want to go back too far. You know,

531
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 10: we've been struggling with the same problems. I mean, different

532
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 10: technological trends in different environments highlight different parts of that experience.

533
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 10: But you know, whether it's a country that's at war

534
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 10: or a country that's experiencing a crisis, or it's a

535
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 10: country that's you know, sort of become fat and lazy

536
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 10: and spoiled, history is more or less the same thing,

537
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 10: and the people are going through the same things. And

538
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 10: that's what's so interesting to me is like, as interested

539
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 10: as I am in Stoicism, and as much as I

540
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 10: write about it, I'm always humbled by but also kind

541
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 10: of intrigued to just how similar stoicism in Buddhism is. Right,

542
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 10: It's like, oh, there's not only nothing new in the

543
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 10: sense that the ancient world had this figured out already,

544
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 10: but it's like different parts of the ancient world figured

545
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 10: the same thing out in different ways.

546
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that kind of fascinates me. Like,

547
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: we've just had a baby. We've got an old one.

548
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: She's nearly sixteen.

549
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: We've just had a baby. He's ten weeks all this way.

550
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 10: Whatever phares You're like, you have a ten week called

551
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 10: that craziness. It's like you could have complained to Marcus

552
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 10: Aurelius about that craziness and he'd be like, oh my god,

553
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 10: it's so hard, you know, like, like nothing about the

554
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 10: experience is the childbirth is fundamentally the same reason kids

555
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 10: is fundamentally the same, as much as things have changed.

556
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 9: It's like people are people and problems are problems.

557
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 2: Well exactly, and that he came out knowing how to

558
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: digest food and turn it into pooh, he came out

559
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: knowing how to breastfeed.

560
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: He came out with a walk reflex.

561
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 2: You know, he'd like, we come out with the source

562
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: code embed into us.

563
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: And I wonder your thoughts on this, you know, do

564
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: you think.

565
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: That with these different views of the world Stoics, the Buddhists,

566
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: the Christians, the tour of the Tulmud, all these places,

567
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: you know, finding similar ways to describe human behavior, do

568
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: you think they're just reverse engineering what we are inherently

569
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: born with and how were we inherently behave.

570
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 10: I guess that does go to that sort of fundamental

571
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 10: debate about whether we're blank slates or not. But the

572
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 10: way I kind of think about it, and I talk

573
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 10: about this a little bit in the book. It's kind

574
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 10: of like convergent evolution where there are these sort of

575
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 10: species all over the planet that have evolved very similar

576
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 10: ways of talking or of doing very similar things. So,

577
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 10: like bats and birds both fly, but they don't come

578
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 10: from the same ancestor. I mean, they all share a

579
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 10: common ancestor at some point, but like birds and bats

580
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 10: are not like descended from very similar things. They fly

581
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 10: in totally different ways. Right, Pandas and apes both have

582
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 10: opposable thumbs, but they're very different. And so I kind

583
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 10: of think it's that way with philosophy, where it's like

584
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 10: different people at different places in the world, you know,

585
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 10: from different traditions, can look and feel like they're talking

586
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 10: fundamentally differently. But when you kind of look at like

587
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 10: what enlightenment is across, whether it's Christianity or Confucism or

588
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 10: Stoicism or Buddhism or Epicurianism or Hinduism or Islam Enlightenment

589
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 10: or the highest stage of any of those schools or religions,

590
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 10: it's essentially like a really calm, wise person who isn't

591
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 10: afraid of anything, who doesn't get riled up, who sort

592
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 10: of knows what really matters. Who's able to laugh at themselves,

593
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 10: who's able to see the big picture? You know, who

594
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 10: has some level of sort of moral principle that goes

595
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 10: sort of the.

596
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 9: Bedrock of how they behave.

597
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 10: Usually they have some sort of they have both moral

598
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 10: and physical courage, you know, like it's the same person, right,

599
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 10: and so like at the core of stoicism is these

600
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 10: sort of four virtues courage, wisdom, justice, and temperance.

601
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 9: So like moderation, it's like very hard to find a.

602
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 10: School that's like courage is bad, you know, wisdom is

603
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 10: not important definitely, who cares about moderation? And then like

604
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 10: feel free to treat other peop people badly? You know,

605
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 10: Like at the core of it, these are really basic,

606
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 10: almost self evident truths, but they get to them in

607
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 10: different ways, and they advise pursuing them in different ways,

608
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 10: whether it's meditation or journaling or the rational mind or

609
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 10: you know, the sort of non thinking, Like there's different

610
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 10: ways to get there, but they're fundamentally trying to teach

611
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 10: the same thing.

612
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: How the fuck do you do it?

613
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 2: Man? Because you've got kids, you've got this book business,

614
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: you do speaking gigs, you write books, you help other

615
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: people get their books up the charts. How on earth

616
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 2: does someone as busy as you do these How do

617
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: you find time for stillness?

618
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 9: I build my life around it.

619
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 10: Right like this morning, I got up early, and the

620
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 10: first thing I was doing was writing. It was not

621
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 10: touching my phone, it was not checking my email. It

622
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 10: was the writing that I had to do.

623
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 9: For the day.

624
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 10: And I had a very short to do list of

625
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 10: about six things that I had to accomplish. So I

626
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 10: did the writing. Then my son woke up. We went outside.

627
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 10: We took a long walk together, so we sort of

628
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 10: got in the right I got in the right head space,

629
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 10: I you know, experienced some nature.

630
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 9: Then I came back.

631
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 10: I did my journals, and then I went back into

632
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 10: my writing. And I had two things on my calendar today.

633
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 10: I had a talk I had to give and I

634
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 10: had this thing with you. So part of it is

635
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 10: as busy as it is. I'm also very deliberate about

636
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 10: what I say yes to and what I say no to,

637
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 10: and I try not to over commit. I try to

638
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 10: control my schedule, and I know that when I agree

639
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 10: to things, I'm taking time away from the thing that matters,

640
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 10: which is like doing the writing that I want to do.

641
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 10: So it's I'm very intentional. I know what I'm doing,

642
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 10: I know what I'm saying no to, and I also

643
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 10: know the bad habits that I try to avoid, you know,

644
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 10: whether it's watching a lot of the news or gossiping

645
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 10: about other people, or I try to be very contained

646
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 10: about Even though I can sort of do whatever I

647
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 10: want and set up my life however I want, I try.

648
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 10: I had to sort of be very ordered and structured

649
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 10: about it all because it is hard. You're not naturally productive.

650
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 10: You have to create systems that allow that productivity to happen.

651
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: So say, for example, someone's listening to this, then they're

652
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: most likely they're on a commute. They're like, that's all

653
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: well and good for you. Holiday you live in a

654
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: farm outside. You've deliberately taken yourself outside of a metropolitan city,

655
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: so you're limiting your inputs of who could drop around

656
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: for a start. Your avandith for your internet is lower,

657
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: so you can't be streaming video left and right. If

658
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: someone has got themselves into a routine, but their routine

659
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: just relies on being reactionary to their phone, to the

660
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: to the urgency of their kids got to go to swimming,

661
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: this one's got to go to dancing. I've got to

662
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: get dinner, and I've got to get something out of

663
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: the freezer for dinner. Letter on, I've got no fucking

664
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: time to sit down and write my thoughts down holiday.

665
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: You know, what would you say to someone is the

666
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: first thing they can start to work on to unravel

667
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: their day and try to find that stillness.

668
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, So first off, what I would say is like,

669
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 10: these aren't like accidental things that then allow me to

670
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 10: have stillness. Like I chose to live here in this

671
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 10: city in this way because I was prioritizing it. And

672
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 10: as much as you might think, like, oh, that's a

673
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 10: very privileged thing to do, well, it also cost a lot, right,

674
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 10: Like I gave up a lot of things to do

675
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 10: that it wasn't free. I'd make up more money and

676
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 10: be more plugged in and probably sell more books if

677
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 10: I lived in New York City or Los Angeles, right,

678
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 10: because I'd have access to things, but those things would

679
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 10: also have access to me. So it's about really deciding

680
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 10: what you want and how you want to live your life.

681
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 10: One essay I would urge everyone to read. Paul Graham

682
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 10: has an essay called Maker Versus manager, and he's like,

683
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 10: you got to figure out are you a maker or

684
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 10: you a manager?

685
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 9: Like what do you do? And if you're a manager,

686
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 9: then yeah, your day.

687
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 10: Is mostly going to be meetings and phone calls and

688
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 10: you know, checking in on stuff. But the reality is

689
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 10: a lot of people are makers, whether they think of

690
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 10: themselves that way or not. You know, they're a programmer,

691
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 10: or they're a physical trainer, or or they're a podcaster,

692
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 10: or they're a screenwriter, or they're a movie producer, or

693
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 10: you know, or they're a hedge fund trader. Right, your

694
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 10: job is to make things, to create insights, and then

695
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 10: to take actions based on those insights in a way

696
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 10: that creates value. And you're going to have trouble doing

697
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 10: that if you're jerked around, if you're easily distracted, if

698
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 10: you don't have routines and structures and systems in place

699
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 10: that prioritize the kind of thinking and the kind of

700
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 10: stillness that that requires. Right, And so it's really important

701
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 10: that you make that distinction in your life. But to

702
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 10: answer your question about little rules, I would say, like,

703
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 10: I didn't touch my phone for the first two and

704
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 10: a half hours that I was awake this morning. That's

705
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 10: not to say, oh, it's so wonderful to be me.

706
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 10: You were disconnected for the no I was working. But

707
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 10: what I don't do is start my day from a

708
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 10: reactive place. So what Donald Trump tweeted while I was

709
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 10: asleep for those two you know, while while I was

710
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 10: checked out, you know, the night and those two and

711
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 10: a half hours, I had no idea, but I did

712
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 10: know that the night before I went to bed, going, Okay,

713
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 10: the first thing I have to do is knock this

714
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 10: you know, article out. Or if I was a Hedgephonne Trader,

715
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 10: maybe it was like I got to read these ten

716
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 10: public filings, or I got to make this chart, or

717
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 10: you know, if you were a professional athlete, you're like, hey,

718
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 10: I got to do this this workout.

719
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 9: I don't touch the phone in the morning.

720
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 10: I go right into the main thing of the day,

721
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 10: having gotten myself in a headspace that is conducive to

722
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 10: doing that thing at an elite level.

723
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: You're not the first person to have talked about that

724
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: on this show. That you know, if the first thing

725
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: that you touch in the morning isn't your lover or

726
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: you know, one of your children, then something's up. I

727
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: feel like if you touch your phone before you touch

728
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: the people you live with.

729
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, and how is that success? Like you know what

730
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 9: I mean? That's that's the way I think.

731
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 10: About it, Like if success is becoming a slave to

732
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 10: my calendar, like I'd rather not be successful, right, Like

733
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 10: to me, I define success primarily as autonomy, like do

734
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 10: I get.

735
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 9: To do what I want to do the way I

736
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 9: want to do it? Right?

737
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 10: And so this helps me decide what opportunities to say

738
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 10: yes to and no to, Like if you know, I

739
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 10: agree to do this thing, and now all of a

740
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 10: sudden I found that some person's bossing me around. I'm like, well,

741
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 10: you know, fuck this, Like this isn't what I signed

742
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 10: up for it, you know. Like so I kind of

743
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 10: think about, like how do I want my life to be?

744
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 10: And I sort of judge the opportunities that I see

745
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 10: along those lines.

746
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: All Right, the lost Dad we're gonna hate from today.

747
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: It's Look, it's hard to think about a bit of

748
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: parenting chat than the one that I had with.

749
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: Doctor Billy gave.

750
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: There's barely a minute of our conversation which wasn't filmed

751
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 2: with either a thoughtful or practical bit of parenting advice

752
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: back by his incredible research his xots and practice, or me.

753
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: Just trying to make dick jokes.

754
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: You got to keep it light.

755
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: We're making a show here and you're about to hear this.

756
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: Billy talks a lot in this whole Listen to the

757
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: whole show. It's fantastic, But in this bit here he

758
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: talks about evolving from ideas of unhealthy masculinity and the

759
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: portrayals we were all brought up with, to finding better

760
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: ways to regulate your own reactions, to effectively communicate and

761
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 2: try to connect with your kids.

762
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: This is doctor Billy Garvey.

763
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 2: When we have like no other voice when it comes

764
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: to talking to young man about masculinity.

765
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 3: And in my case, it was vhs and magazines.

766
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: Now it's a tablet or a phone. What can happen

767
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: if if we as a parent momm did not have

768
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 2: time to jump in there. Right, she tried her best

769
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: and she did well, but she didn't have time to

770
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 2: kind of have her She wasn't she didn't know what

771
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: we were doing.

772
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: You know, she was a work totally.

773
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 11: And yeah, I actually wear kindred spirits because yeah, I

774
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 11: was the same. I was brought up by a single mum.

775
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 11: She was raising three boys and you know, same She

776
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 11: worked full time for Frankston City Council and then waitress

777
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 11: on the weekends and evenings, and then worked a lot

778
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 11: of weekends as well as a receptionist and you know,

779
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 11: just to try and stop the mortgage drowning her.

780
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 4: And it was really hard.

781
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 11: And you know, I have the same memories of you. I,

782
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 11: you know, watching all the action hero movies and being like,

783
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 11: that's what a man is, his muscles, and if he

784
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 11: has a problem, he uses physical violence to get what

785
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 11: he needs and get respect. Women are objects, their trophies.

786
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 4: You know.

787
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 11: The more women partners you have, you just grab them

788
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 11: and kiss them, you know, like you show them how

789
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 11: much of a man you are. And pornography is having

790
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 11: a hugely detrimental impact on what, you know, intimacy is

791
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 11: seen as by you know, people that are coming up now,

792
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 11: especially young boys through really early ages of teenage years

793
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 11: when you know, you and I, yeah, might have been

794
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 11: exposed to it.

795
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 9: You know.

796
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 4: I had an older brother who had all.

797
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 11: Those magazines and it was really hard because I remember

798
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 11: having to you know, I probably still have some bias

799
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 11: in that.

800
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 4: I work really hard. I was raised by.

801
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 11: You know, strong feminist mother, but I witnessed a lot

802
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 11: of intimate partner violence against her, and so you know,

803
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 11: one of the biggest risk factors of adult mental illness

804
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 11: is developmental trauma, and one in three of it, one

805
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 11: in five of us, sorry, have experienced three different types

806
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 11: of developmental trauma, whether it's abuse, neglect, or household dysfunction,

807
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 11: parental mental illness, intimate partner violence. You know, this is

808
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 11: stuff that is really common through lots of households. And

809
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 11: then if you look and you have this awful kind

810
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,919
Speaker 11: of acceleration of it because the movies are showing you

811
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 11: that men don't show their feelings.

812
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: You know, they are a real man.

813
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 11: If they just bury it or they release it through

814
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 11: anger and violence, that's to be celebrated. And that's not

815
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 11: just movies in our sporting culture, that's in a lot

816
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 11: of leadership positions. You know, hostility and aggression and I'm

817
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 11: the boss and I'll take what I want and you

818
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 11: will respect me because you'll fear me.

819
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 4: But that's not true.

820
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 11: That's that's false respect, and that's not someone that we

821
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 11: actually really value. We're just afraid of them. And I

822
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 11: think that you know, our ability to reflect back on

823
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 11: how that we will influence like that is a really

824
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 11: powerful thing, and to think, how can we do better

825
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 11: knowing that kids today are getting lots of influencers, that

826
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 11: people are capturing them and going, hey, come and spend

827
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 11: money with me, Come and spend time with me online.

828
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 11: I will make you feel good about yourself and I'll

829
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 11: show you that you're valued and that this future path

830
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 11: of power is ready for you. And it's it's a

831
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 11: false prophet that is hurting kids more than many other

832
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 11: things in our community.

833
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: But sometimes remember in the fight scenes, Mum she worked

834
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: as a city GP for the Australian Army and she

835
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: would walk past the house. You know, she's laundry in

836
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: one hand, grocers and the other we're just sitting in

837
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: front of the TV. And she'd see people punching and go,

838
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 2: that's bullshit. That got to be dead after two punches

839
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: with it. Oh, And so we kind of at least

840
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 2: had an idea that the violence that we saw wasn't real.

841
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: And you know, later on, as I became a roadie,

842
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: I was like seventeen and I'm working in pubs and stuff,

843
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 2: and I saw what pub violence can be. Fights don't

844
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: look like John Wick now over in eight seconds, and

845
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: someone's probably never going to smile the same way again,

846
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: you know.

847
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 3: And but the.

848
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: People, if you've never been exposed to that, you might

849
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: go into a situation at a pub or something with

850
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: bravado when you're eighteen nineteen thinking I've seen how this works.

851
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: I punched him twice and then do some sort of

852
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: rad ninja kick and then everyone kisses me.

853
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 3: No, you get king hit and you're dead.

854
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny.

855
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 11: I've never in my life started a fight, but my

856
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 11: fragility and my masculinity is that I can't walk away

857
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 11: from one.

858
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 4: And I started pediatrics.

859
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 11: My first day ever on a pediatric ward a very

860
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 11: long time ago, I had two black eyes, you know,

861
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 11: because the night before I'd been jumped by a bunch

862
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 11: of guys. And I started boxing because of that, because

863
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 11: I was like, that's the answer, is be able to

864
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 11: defend myself. But I you know, it's not true. It's

865
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 11: like it's not with violence against violence, just as you

866
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 11: said it, it can be hugely physically traumatic but also

867
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 11: really emotionally and psychologically traumatic. And I still carry that

868
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 11: around with me. I'm like hyper sensitive to know threats

869
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 11: and issues like that. And now I'm raising a boy

870
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 11: and a girl and it's huge privilege, but it's more

871
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 11: important for the safety of the community.

872
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 4: How I raised my son, Charlie.

873
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 11: And as you said, where are the depictions of healthy

874
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 11: ways to deal with stress, healthy ways to show emotions.

875
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 4: That we're struggling with?

876
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 11: You know, how do we see men that don't use

877
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 11: violence but actually use understanding and sympathy and empathy and

878
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 11: compassion to actually make our communities healthy and stronger and safer,

879
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 11: like because we can do better than what we're currently doing.

880
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 11: Like it's it's ridiculous and we just we love it

881
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 11: so much, that's the problem. It's so graphic. And we

882
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 11: even did Fight Club and Beautiful Boys recently, and you know,

883
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 11: I remember watching that as a teenager and thinking, isn't

884
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 11: this guy look how powerful Brad Pitt is. Look at

885
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 11: it doesn't care about anything. He's just violent and he

886
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 11: can take a hit, you can give a hit. He

887
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 11: doesn't have feelings, and he just talks about that idea

888
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 11: of resilience being just gritting your teeth and like taking

889
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 11: what's yours. And it's it's hugely detrimental because it does

890
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 11: you know, you were probably able to watch it and say,

891
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 11: maybe because of your mum, you were able to watch

892
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 11: it and go, but that's not real life. So you

893
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 11: didn't carry that through. But a lot of people do.

894
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 11: They carry it through with them, you know. And I

895
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 11: still have that difficulty with how I deal with my

896
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 11: anger today because of the experiences through my childhood but

897
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 11: also the influence those cultures.

898
00:41:59,200 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 4: Had on me.

899
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 11: And you know, I work really hard to try and

900
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 11: get better with that, but it takes a lot of

901
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 11: time and effort, but it starts with me going, this

902
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 11: is something that's mine to work on, and I have

903
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 11: to take responsibility for it.

904
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 2: So because auderies are often saying to me, and she

905
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: said it around g when she was, you know, fourteen

906
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: and fifteen started going out to parties and stuff like that,

907
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 2: she's not you. Okay, she's not you, and she's not

908
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: going to do the things that you did, and so

909
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: it's really difficult.

910
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: It was really difficult.

911
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 2: I had to learn how to do it to kind

912
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: of remember that when you're in the moment, can you

913
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: help me understand because it's something I struggle with a

914
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: lot as well. When it's a part of being a kid,

915
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: a little kid four five six years old, hitting pushing

916
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: that is a part of figuring it out as a parent.

917
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 2: What are things we can do to keep our own

918
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: histories with that sort of stuff to one side and

919
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: understand this is a part of them figuring out space

920
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: and boundaries and things like that, Like, what's because it's

921
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 2: going to happen, what are the healthy ways that we

922
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: might be.

923
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 3: Able to do with deal with that?

924
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean it's so good and ashure you obviously

925
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 11: do it naturally, even your story about this morning is

926
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 11: having an awareness of what's happening in our own feelings

927
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 11: because of what is happening in the environment around us.

928
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 11: And mindfulness has been misinterpreted as well. True mindfulness is

929
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 11: really just what's the experience I'm having. It's not what's

930
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 11: the reason and changing is. It's actually just being.

931
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 4: Aware of it.

932
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 11: And when I've got a fiery little redheaded girl, like

933
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 11: I've got a sensitive teperament, she's got a sensitive teperament

934
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 11: that's set in stone. We were genetically destined for that.

935
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 11: I've given it to her, so I can see me

936
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 11: in her so much. But I have to be aware

937
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 11: of that and catch myself and go I've got a

938
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 11: risk of a trap that I'll fall into is supporting

939
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 11: her in a way that I would want to be supported.

940
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 11: And if I can do that first, and then I

941
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 11: can go in And even I said to a mum

942
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 11: yesterday and clinic who's like horrible, horrific trauma and she's

943
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 11: got this gorgeous seven year old girl who you know,

944
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 11: I can't go into detail because of how disturbing it

945
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 11: is what's happened to this family. But this mum is

946
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 11: coming down so hard on her, like every couple of minutes,

947
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 11: just like punitive yelling at her, don't do this, don't

948
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 11: do that. And I know her well enough now, So

949
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 11: we talked about how do you feel when you're experiencing

950
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 11: that and she's not listening or she's doing something you

951
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 11: don't wanted to, And then we talked about how you

952
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 11: need to connect with her and then you need to

953
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,760
Speaker 11: actually think what would I like her to be doing instead,

954
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 11: and how do I help her do that?

955
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: You know?

956
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 11: And it's a really important thing because we often get

957
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 11: stuck on stop doing that, no, you know, and it

958
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 11: doesn't help, or you're okay, and things like that. Those

959
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 11: dismissive or punitive approaches not only they not help, but

960
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 11: they also risk shame, and shame is something that can

961
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 11: be hugely detrimental to our own mental health, but also

962
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 11: the attachment that we have in healthy relationships, because one

963
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 11: of the worst things we do as parents is we

964
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 11: withdraw love as a punishment. So we say, like, I'm

965
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 11: so angry at you because you hurt your brother or

966
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 11: you didn't listen to me. So I'm going to actually

967
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 11: pull support away, and I'm going to make you feel

968
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 11: like my love is conditional and my love will come

969
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 11: back when you comply. But that's actually when we most

970
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 11: importantly go towards kids and show them how unconditionally we

971
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 11: love them. That doesn't mean we're being permissive. That doesn't

972
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 11: mean we're saying do whatever you want. It's saying we'll

973
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 11: face this together, and I'll actually guide you with as

974
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 11: much support as you need to succeed in the thing

975
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 11: that I want you to be doing.

976
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 2: Instead, the kind of parenting you're describing is the kind

977
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: of parenting I'm going to say, pretty much nobody my

978
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: age ever saw. That's all right, So I understand you

979
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: when you say connect with the kid and da da da,

980
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, and.

981
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 6: What does that look like?

982
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 9: All right?

983
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: I have no like so, and I'm not alone in that.

984
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: So I'm wondering. I don't know what I'll be. I'll be.

985
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 2: It's three minutes left before we have got We've passed

986
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: every little fast lie last flag. We've got to get

987
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: in the car. We've got to get out of here.

988
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 2: We've got to get to school. And I haven't finished

989
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: my breakfast, but I'm still in my pajamas and I'm

990
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: just being just not wanting to do anything you tell me,

991
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: all right, and I'm throwing stuff go.

992
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 11: So first, I'm getting really upset and annoyed, and I've

993
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 11: got to sit with that, and I've got to own

994
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 11: that I can't give that to you.

995
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 4: You're a kid.

996
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 11: Next, I think, Okay, do I actually have the capacity

997
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 11: in the space to support usher in this? And if

998
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 11: I do, my first priority once i'm calm, is going

999
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 11: in regulated and trying to connect with you.

1000
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: Why are you bringing all that, dad? Why are you're

1001
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 3: making all huffing puffing noises?

1002
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 6: Dad?

1003
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, because I'm getting frustrated, But that's actually on me

1004
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 11: because I should be supporting you more to meet you

1005
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 11: know what we need to do this morning.

1006
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 4: And I can see that you really loved it.

1007
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 3: I don't want to go.

1008
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 11: I can see I don't want to go. Yeah, I

1009
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 11: can see that. You know you're having a great time.

1010
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 11: And what we're going to do is we're going to

1011
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 11: come back to this, or you can bring in the

1012
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 11: car with you. But what I actually need is you

1013
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 11: to s o how good you are at getting in

1014
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 11: the car really fast, or helping your brother get into

1015
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 11: the seat, or like guiding with a direction that is

1016
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 11: positive that the kid is a small stretch. They can

1017
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 11: achieve it quickly and you can reinforce it instantly, and

1018
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 11: that's called process praise.

1019
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 4: And process praise is not you're a good boy, it's

1020
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 4: what you're doing is great.

1021
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 11: And process praise is actually more beneficial to intrinsic motivation

1022
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 11: because it's not I either good or bad. It's the

1023
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 11: stuff that I make an effort on get celebrated and

1024
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 11: reinforces the fact that I succeed in things I make

1025
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 11: an effort towards. And then thinking about that but also

1026
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 11: remembering it's actually okay. If you're like I do not

1027
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 11: have the space, I don't have the time, and I

1028
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 11: can't actually regulate myself. You just need to get in

1029
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 11: the car but you won't get better at it by

1030
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 11: doing those. You'll get better at it by the sixty

1031
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 11: percent of the time that you can get down on

1032
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 11: a kid's level, like physically get down eyes at the

1033
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 11: same level of below them and.

1034
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 4: Just connect with them.

1035
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 11: And we talk a lot as parents, especially like people

1036
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 11: like you and I that like we like using words,

1037
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 11: but actually a lot of it is nonverbal. A lot

1038
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 11: of it is just being in the space with the

1039
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 11: kid and being calm. And that's contagious because that's how

1040
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 11: we're built. We're wired to attach. That's why mothers sacrifice

1041
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 11: so much resources for newborn babies because attachment bonds are

1042
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 11: so strong. And so if you just connect and when

1043
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 11: you do talk, it's open language, it's deep, it's low,

1044
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 11: and it's slow, and it's trying to understand with curiosity,

1045
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 11: how can I support you better to succeed at the

1046
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 11: thing I need us both.

1047
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: To That's it Father's Day twenty twenty five. I hope

1048
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: it was all right for you this Sunday Father's Day.

1049
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 2: Don't forget for the father or father person in your life.

1050
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: Just call them up and.

1051
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: Say thanks, say hey, if you're a chyney, bring them

1052
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: along to story club links in the show notes. If

1053
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: you want to get them, somebody get them. So what

1054
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 2: now what you can get them that book? It's in

1055
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: the show notes as well. Now, these bits you've just

1056
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: heard are all part of much full, long conversations which

1057
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: are in the back of the podcast feed.

1058
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: Just scroll back and find them.

1059
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: And you know, wherever you're listening to this whatever podcast

1060
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: app you're just search Billy Garvey or search Hamish Blake.

1061
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: You'll find that exact episode and knock your socks off

1062
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: to follow the podcast, like it, subscribe it, share it,

1063
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: tell other people. As I said, there's another parent to

1064
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: add to the mix, which is coming next week, fitting

1065
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 2: in the theme of parenting and fatherhood. But I'll feel

1066
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: you in on that all right, See on Monday.