1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business Interview. I'm Sean Alma. 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: Australians are becoming smarter with the use of credit cards, 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: but banks are increasing fees as a way to recoup 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: lost revenue. Financial comparison site MOSO has done a detailed 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: analysis of credit card rates, fees and spending across the 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: last decade. It's a period that also captures the rise 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: and rise of buy now, Pay later, which has been 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: thoroughly embraced by Australians, highlighting the need for better tracking 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: and regulation. Rachel Wostel is the personal finance expert at 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: financial comparison site MOSO. Rachel, welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. A pleasure to 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: be here. I love talking about credit cards. 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: A decade is a long time, especially in credit cards. 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: What's the standout trend you've observed. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, a positive thing that we have seen over 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: the past decade in terms of the credit card market 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: is that Australians are becoming savvier with spending. Their transactions 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: are getting smaller and the balance accruing interest, so the 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: balance they're not paying off by the end of the 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: billing cycle is reducing, so we've seen a dramatic drop. 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: There was a forty five percent drop in the balances 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 2: accruing interest according to the RBA in the past ten years, 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: which is massive, and the average spend has dropped from 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighteen dollars down to ninety dollars. 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: Okay, so people don't have those as well. They still 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: have big debts at the end of the month, but 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: not as big as they did have. What about the 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: actual amount being spent on domestic credit card purchases, has 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: that gone up or down? What's happened there? 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the balance, like the amount that people are 31 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: actually spending, is still increasing, but it's the transaction, so 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: the purchases are getting smaller. So it looks like Australians 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: are actually making smaller and more manageable transactions. As the 34 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: cost of living increases and we're in a high higher 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,919 Speaker 2: rate environment, people are kind of looking at their credit 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: card debt a little bit more conservatively. However, you know, 37 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: there is the risk that it's not just that they're 38 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: not accruing debt. It might be that they're not accruing 39 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 2: debt on their credit cards because the problem is they've 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: got buying our pay later services, and we can't actually 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: track the amount of debt that is being or there's 42 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: no regulatory authority that tracks the level of debt that 43 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: people have, so there might be a different kind of balance, 44 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: or the balance as accruing interest is dropping and it's 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: just been repositioned into the B ANDPL debt market. 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: That would be worrying, wouldn't it if more people have 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: buying our pay later, because that's that particular method of 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: payment seems to be going from strength to strength. 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what's most concerning is we did some 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 2: research recently. We found that fifty four percent of credit 51 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: card holders also had at least one B and PL account, 52 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 2: So that means that it might be positive that we're 53 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: spending less on the credit card, but we're just kind 54 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: of off putting these payments until later. The problem with 55 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: buying now pay later is that people think they have 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: all this money, but you're just delaying the debt. So 57 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: it's not that you're not accruing the debt, and that 58 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: that is a bit dangerous because you think you have 59 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 2: more money than you really do. 60 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: Okay, just the forty five percent reduction and credit card 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: debt accruing interest. Are we more used to interest free periods? 62 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: What's the reasoning behind that. Is it the fact that 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: we are having smaller transactions and maybe it's on by now, 64 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: pay later, or is there more to it than that. 65 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: Are we just getting more savvy. 66 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: I think it's probably a combination of both. Unfortunately, we 67 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: don't have the data to see whether that proportion of 68 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: debt has just been repositioned, so we can't really say that. 69 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: We did some research ourselves at MOSO to look at 70 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: how much debt people had on average, and we found 71 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: that with one across the board with BNPL users, they 72 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: had about nine hundred and nineteen dollars of outstanding debt, 73 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: and some with four BNPL accounts actually had seventeen hundred 74 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: dollars just upwards of seventeen hundred dollars on average in debt. 75 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: So it might be that they're just kind of transferring 76 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: that outstanding debt, which is smarter because you're not paying 77 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: you know, that double digit interest on a credit card, 78 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: But it does just mean that it's repositioned rather than 79 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: actually getting rid of that debt. So I think there's 80 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: a few factors at play. Also, people are becoming SAVVR 81 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: with spending as things get more expensive, and I think 82 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 2: we're getting used to this idea of having that, you know, 83 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: part pay and kind of pushing your payments back and 84 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: not really wanting to commit to paying double digit and interest. 85 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Rachel, we'll be back in a minute. 86 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is Rachel Wastel from Moso, Okay. 87 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: So back to credit cards. One of the things you found, 88 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting is that there are 89 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: more low rate and more high rate cards. Where the 90 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: decline has been is in the medi range cards. Why 91 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: and is it a good or a bad thing for consumers? 92 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: So this was the most interesting thing we saw. It 93 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: was like a polarization of the credit card market. And 94 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 2: those mid range cards between ten and fifteen percent per 95 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: annum dropped by fifty seven percent, So that's quite a lot. 96 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: It lost about forty four cards over ten years that 97 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: in that space. But we did see a very big 98 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: growth in the low rate so cards under ten percent, 99 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: they grew by six hundred percent. It was an extra 100 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 2: twelve cards added to that pool. But we also saw 101 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 2: you know, the twenty five percent and over and definitely 102 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: that twenty percent and over growing as well, so, I 103 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 2: think the polarization is for two reasons. The higher rates 104 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: are likely banks trying to recoup the interest revenue that 105 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: they're losing because people are transferring or kind of changing 106 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: their patterns to rely on interest free debt rather than 107 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: credit card debt. And balancers are crewing. Interests are reducing, 108 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: so there's less kind of interest earned there. And then 109 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: on the lower side, I think there's an opportunity for 110 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: smaller brands and smaller providers to come in quite competitively 111 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: and attract the credit card market away from the bigger 112 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: banks that are charging a little bit more. 113 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: Okay, and that's the interest rate. What about what's happening 114 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: on annual fees? 115 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so annual fees, especially in the rewards card space, 116 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: are getting quite hefty. We saw the highest annual fee 117 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen this seven hundred dollars that before is 118 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: the highest is twelve hundred dollars per year. 119 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: Wow, so wow, yeah, Well, how can you get away 120 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: with that? Just have an amazing rewards scheme? Supposedly? 121 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: Yes, And the things with the reward schemes is they can, like, 122 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, they can be great, but you 123 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 2: need to make sure that at least what you're getting 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: back from your rewards is covering the cost of your 125 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: annual fee. Because if you don't get a positive net 126 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 2: return on your rewards and you're not even getting enough 127 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: rewards to cover the cost of the fee you're paying 128 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: every year, it's just not worth it. But there are 129 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 2: a number of those lower rate cards. They do come 130 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: with fees, annual fees under fifty dollars, so you do 131 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: have an opportunity to get a low rate and a 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: low annual fee card. But you do kind of have 133 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: to look outside the big banks and maybe go past 134 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: that aurture of sticking with a big bank just for 135 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: the name. 136 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: You do a lot of research into this. What I 137 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: always find interesting when we talk about this sort of 138 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: thing is that I would have no idea about any 139 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: of this stuff on my own credit cards. Is it 140 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: a worthwhile exercise? I mean, just go to MOSO, that's 141 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: probably the best option. But is it a worthwhile exercise 142 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: for individuals to spend time going through all this because 143 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of work. It's actually kind 144 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: of hard sometimes to sort out whether you're getting a 145 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: benefit or not from the fee, from the rewards from 146 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: the high or low interest rate. 147 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 2: Yes. And on the mos OF database there's one hundred 148 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: and ninety nine personal credit cards that we reviewed as 149 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: a part of this analysis. So what consumers could do 150 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: is Moso. We just recently released our credit card awards 151 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: so MOSO Experts Choice, where we looked at one hundred 152 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: and ninety nine cards or the rates and fees and 153 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: found the best in terms of the cheapest for certain areas. 154 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: I think when you're looking for a credit card, first thing, 155 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: make sure you know what you're paying, so check your 156 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: rate and check your annual fee. Definitely check any other 157 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: fees you've got on there. But the second is you 158 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: need to make sure that you're not trying to get 159 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: a card with everything, because there will never be a 160 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 2: credit card that gives you the best of everything. You 161 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: really need to sit back and think, Okay, do I 162 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: clean my balance every month? If not, really opt for 163 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: the low rate first. If you're good at clearing your balance, 164 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: try and find a low annual fee with a low 165 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: rate as good as you can to get that. And 166 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 2: if you have a huge pile about standing debt on 167 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 2: your credit card, you might want to opt for a 168 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: balance transfer to reduce the interest on that. If you're 169 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 2: great with spending, and you're great with then you want 170 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: to do that great with your credit card money matter, 171 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: and you want to get some good rewards, and you 172 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: go on a fair fe your holidays a year, then 173 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: you might actually get the best bang for your buck 174 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: by spending high on your fee and then getting all 175 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: the lounge passes and concierge service and discounts. And it 176 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: really depends on what you're looking for. But the first 177 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: thing is look at your statement and figure out what 178 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: your radius and what your fees are. 179 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: Just moving beyond credit cards, we started talking about buying now, 180 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: pay later and the fact that we don't know a 181 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: lot about it. What sort of changes do you think 182 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: we need in that space, be that regular tree or 183 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: even just tracking or something like that to try and 184 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: get a handle on how much debt there is in 185 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: that buy in our pay later space because ultimately people 186 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: have to pay it off. So what kind of are 187 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: we missing at the moment? 188 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think the key would be first to start 189 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: tracking it. I know that new regulation was introduced earlier 190 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: this year to make sure that consumers were protected, but 191 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: we're still not seeing what the level of debt in 192 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: that area is and that I think is the most 193 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: dangerous and I guess most crucial point, because it does 194 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: look like from the data we had in the analysis 195 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: we did that there's this positive shift and consumers are 196 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: being more responsible and we're reducing our balances accruing interest 197 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: and we're spending less per transaction on credit card, which 198 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 2: is great. But if there's this hidden pile of debt 199 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: that we're relying on, and now you can use buy now, 200 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: pay later for fuel, you can use it for every 201 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: day essential so are we kind of relying on a 202 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: service that we're not even properly tracking. I'd love to 203 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: see it in the way I see the VA retail 204 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: payments data, to be able to look at it and 205 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 2: how it's changing and how it's how it's kind of 206 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 2: growing in comparison to credit cards. But right now we 207 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: don't have that data available. 208 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: And finally, Rachel, we've been talking about what's happened the 209 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: next ten years, anything that we should really keep it. 210 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: I mean, people will still be using credit cards, buy 211 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: our pay lad is here to stay, I presume anything 212 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,479 Speaker 1: else that we should be keeping an eye. 213 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 2: I think it'll be interesting to see how the younger generations, 214 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: specifically Gen Z, whether they do end up kind of 215 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 2: in that credit card cycle. I think it is buye now, 216 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: pay later may kind of grow to be a bigger 217 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: beast than it is now. I do think that, you. 218 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: Know, don't I guess take this as gospel, but there 219 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 3: is a little bit of a fear in me that 220 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: just like Netflix and Prime Video, they came in as 221 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 3: these subscription services and they were completely free of ads, 222 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: and they built up their subscription model and now they're 223 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: introducing ads. 224 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 2: So I just think there's perhaps, you know, in the future, 225 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: if we do become very reliant on these buy now, 226 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: pay later and it's very consolidated market, you know, a 227 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: very concentrated market with only a few major players. If 228 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: they do get a handle on the credit card market 229 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: and we're not tracking it, it will be interesting to 230 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: see what types of feason and charges are introduced once 231 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: they grow their market share. 232 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: Hmm. Interesting. Rachel, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 233 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 234 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: That was Rachelastel, personal finance expert at financial comparison site MOSO. 235 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 236 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed. 237 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: Daily business years for people who make their own decisions. 238 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm Sean alma Enjoy your day.