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Speaker 1: Apoday production.

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Speaker 2: We begin today by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the

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Speaker 2: land on which we gather today and pay our respects

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Speaker 2: to their elders past and present. We extend that respect

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Speaker 2: to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's here today.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Grow and Glow Podcast. I'm Ashy, I'm Kiara.

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Speaker 3: This is a podcast where we learn, laugh, and level

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Speaker 3: up together.

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Speaker 4: Let's go deep, let.

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Speaker 5: The emotions flow, and find the lessons to.

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Speaker 4: Grow and Glow. Nothing is off the table with Grow

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Speaker 4: and Glow, and we're here to be your expander. Hello everybody,

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Speaker 4: welcome back to Grow and Glow.

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Speaker 5: I'm so excited.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh episode. I'm so excited because I have

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Speaker 4: my favorite person on Earth here today, my beautiful mom.

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Speaker 4: Hello Mom, Slash Wendy, good morning. How are you feeling

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Speaker 4: to be on here? Because I was just explaining to

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Speaker 4: our producer and to Kiara that you're the complete opposite

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Speaker 4: to me. You're very introvert, you don't like the camera,

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Speaker 4: you don't like any attention on you. We're very pole opposite.

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Speaker 4: So how you feel to be interviewed today?

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling pretty nervous, which I think is probably natural,

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Speaker 1: but I'm excited at the same time. It's like, what

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about is something I haven't really

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Speaker 1: talked in detail with you about before, so it's going

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Speaker 1: to be good to sort of like maybe answer some

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Speaker 1: questions that are there that we've just never got around

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Speaker 1: to talking about.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, I feel like the last couple of years

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Speaker 4: our relationship has just gone from strength to strength, and

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Speaker 4: you and I separately and within our relationship have just

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Speaker 4: gone leaps and bounds and we've grown so much, and

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Speaker 4: like even ask your how much I just speak so

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Speaker 4: highly of you and how much you are doing the

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Speaker 4: work and just owning your stuff. You're my safe place,

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Speaker 4: like even with stuff from my childhood that's been really

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Speaker 4: hard that I'm sure is not easy for you to

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Speaker 4: hear or you're like, fuck, I don't remember it being

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Speaker 4: like that. But you never once gas like me, You

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Speaker 4: never once say that didn't have and you never once

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Speaker 4: like make me feel I don't know bad for anything.

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Speaker 4: You're always just like fully hold that space to hear

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Speaker 4: me in my experience, and that has been so healing

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Speaker 4: for me. And I know from experience with a lot

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Speaker 4: of people that I know they don't have parents that

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Speaker 4: do that. So first of all, I just want to

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Speaker 4: like acknowledge that within you, and for you to come

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Speaker 4: on here today and talk about my upbringing and our

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Speaker 4: story together and some really fucking hard times that we've

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Speaker 4: been through. It's just so brave of you, and I'm

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Speaker 4: so proud, and I know that so many people listening

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Speaker 4: to this will one relate to it so much, but

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Speaker 4: to also be like, oh, maybe I can heal some

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Speaker 4: things in my life, and if they can get through that,

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Speaker 4: then wow, look what I can get through.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you. That's just so lovely to hear. Like

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Speaker 1: you can't imagine as a mum, how good it is

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Speaker 1: to have the sort of relationship that you and I have,

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Speaker 1: And I think like it hasn't always been as close,

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Speaker 1: but we've really built it. But my philosophy is massively

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Speaker 1: these days that we are continuing to grow and evolve

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Speaker 1: as humans and the only way to do that really

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Speaker 1: is to look with compassion on ourselves as well as

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Speaker 1: those around us. So, yeah, I've not been coping with

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Speaker 1: life lots of times a wrong road, but I try

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Speaker 1: to look at it now and go I've learned from

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Speaker 1: that experience and I'm a better person than I was,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be a better person still going forward. The

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Speaker 1: more I learn, And if you have that sort of attitude,

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Speaker 1: then I think it's a lot easier to be kinder

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Speaker 1: to yourself and others and develop better relationships.

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Speaker 4: Is she not the most You're amazing woman ever? Amazing?

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Speaker 4: I really want to rewind it back to when you

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Speaker 4: were a young mum. You had my older brother, Matt,

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Speaker 4: and then eighteen months later you had me. Can you

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Speaker 4: tell us a little bit about your life as a

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Speaker 4: young mum with my father and how that dynamic was

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Speaker 4: when I got really sick? Kind of in a nutshell

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Speaker 4: that story.

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Speaker 1: It's quite a complicated story really because your father and

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Speaker 1: I probably I think we met in September, got engaged

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Speaker 1: in December, and were married in April.

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Speaker 4: Wow, you mum.

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Speaker 1: I was just turned twenty.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: A lot of it was to do with like the

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Speaker 1: dynamics of my family before I got to that stage.

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Speaker 1: Is my father really chose him as my husband? He

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Speaker 1: pretty much put it out there to me, you need

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Speaker 1: to marry this guy that you're dating because no one

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Speaker 1: else is probably going to want you. And I knew

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Speaker 1: pretty much that I wasn't in love with him, but

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Speaker 1: I went along with what Dad wanted. The day of

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Speaker 1: the wedding, I wanted to call it off. I was like,

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Speaker 1: woke up crying, like I just really don't want to

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Speaker 1: do this, and my dad said, drink this and gave

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Speaker 1: me a brandy, which I didn't drink, so that was significant.

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Speaker 1: I had a glass of brandy, stopped crying and went

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Speaker 1: on with it. But I knew, like I cut the

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Speaker 1: honeymoon short because I knew that it was not right

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Speaker 1: for me. And I went home to Mum and Dad's

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Speaker 1: house and I said, an, this has just been a

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Speaker 1: terrible mistake. The rules back then were basically that you

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Speaker 1: were a bad person if you slept together or lived

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Speaker 1: together before you got married. I think if I'd lived

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Speaker 1: with him for a week, I would not have gone

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Speaker 1: through with that wedding.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, unfortunately, I just played by the

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Speaker 1: rules that I was told, So I've cut the honeymoon short.

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Speaker 1: Came home and he wasn't a bad person, don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong, but he was very placid and I was

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Speaker 1: very fiery, and I had no one to bounce against.

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Speaker 1: We were okay as friends, but really missed match as

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Speaker 1: a couple, and my dad said to me, turn around

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Speaker 1: and go back to your husband. You've made your bed

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Speaker 1: and you have to lie on it. Wow. And then

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Speaker 1: he also said, in a year's time, if you still

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Speaker 1: don't want to go ahead with this marriage anymore, you

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Speaker 1: can come back to me and then we'll talk about it. Well,

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Speaker 1: a year later, I was just pregnant with Matt, so

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Speaker 1: I decided that the universe had spoken, I was pregnant,

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Speaker 1: that this marriage was meant to be, and I just

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Speaker 1: carry on with it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so you had Matt.

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Speaker 1: So I had Matt, and I desperately wanted another child.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Dean was very sold on parenting at all,

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Speaker 1: but he went along with what I wanted, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to have a second child. I had trouble conceivings

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Speaker 1: and I really didn't want to sleep with him, so

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Speaker 1: I got fertility drugs to conceive you. So I only

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Speaker 1: had to go there one time and to laugh about

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Speaker 1: reading between the lines, Yeah, one.

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Speaker 4: Time it done. I'm sure someone that are listening just

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Speaker 4: been like, yep, got what.

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Speaker 1: I wanted back to baby, and all through the pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: I just I pretty much knew it was not going

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Speaker 1: to survive. Yeah, and I left him when you were

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Speaker 1: already sick. I think it was about six weeks old

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Speaker 1: you started to get sick, and I left him when

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Speaker 1: you were eight weeks old, so Matt wasn't quite too

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Speaker 1: and you were eight weeks old, and I jumped on

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Speaker 1: a plane with my two babies and went back to

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Speaker 1: New Zealand and within twenty four hours you were in

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Speaker 1: hospital and bleeding from the bow. So it was all

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Speaker 1: very dramatic. And at the stage, I'm twenty four.

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Speaker 4: And that call that you made to yeah, you were

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Speaker 4: what I said.

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Speaker 1: You were in hospital for the best part of six months,

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Speaker 1: like in and out and in and out, because salmonella

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Speaker 1: was really having devastating effects on your system. That it

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Speaker 1: was like they were concerned that your kidneys were going

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Speaker 1: to break down, that sort of thing. And at one

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Speaker 1: stage doctor said to me that they really were concerned

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Speaker 1: that you weren't going to make it. So I rang

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Speaker 1: Dean and told him that there were concerns about that,

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Speaker 1: and he said, well, yeah, just let me know if

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Speaker 1: she dies and I'll see if I can come back

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Speaker 1: for the funeral.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why I laugh, Am I laughing? I

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Speaker 4: just it's actually like so hard to fathom as a

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Speaker 4: parent have a dad, Like I don't know why am

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Speaker 4: I giggling, but like, oh yeah, let me know if

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Speaker 4: she passes, and I will see if I can pop

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Speaker 4: over for the funeral of my daughter. Like what.

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Speaker 1: I mean? It is weird, But I've always sort of

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Speaker 1: justified that he didn't have a bond with you, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't have a bond with Matt either. Matt never

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Speaker 1: once said dad or asked for him because he worked

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Speaker 1: all the time, he was just never there, so there

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Speaker 1: was no bond to break. It made it so easy

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Speaker 1: for me as a single parent. I didn't have to

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Speaker 1: share custody. He didn't care that I took you to

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Speaker 1: a other countries.

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Speaker 4: Did even fight at all? Did he like he didn't

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Speaker 4: want to?

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Speaker 1: Didn't He did the opposite. He wrote a letter to

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Speaker 1: the judge saying that he was happy for me to

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Speaker 1: have full custody.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that mind blowing?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And I was so grateful, honestly took

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Speaker 1: away all the hassles in my life. I didn't have

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Speaker 1: to balance anything. But the repercussions I think on the

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Speaker 1: children later on, is that it's left both you and

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Speaker 1: Matt feeling unwanted, Whereas I think it was a continuation

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Speaker 1: for him of what he'd always done is tried to

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Speaker 1: give me what I wanted, but not succeeding, and that

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Speaker 1: was just one more on the list of not succeeding.

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Speaker 4: I think you've made up for those feelings of not

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Speaker 4: being wanted and being abandoned. I think because our bond

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Speaker 4: is so strong, you're enough for me. Like, obviously, as

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Speaker 4: a young girl, that was really hard because I was like,

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Speaker 4: why does my real dad not want me? And why

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Speaker 4: is my stepdad fucking hate my guards? Like major daddy issues, right,

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Speaker 4: But as I've grown up and done my own inner

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Speaker 4: word and webso bonded now I feel like you are

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Speaker 4: more than enough. And I know some people don't even

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Speaker 4: have either parents, so I feel so grateful for that.

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Speaker 4: And then from there comes along my stepdad.

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Speaker 1: So I'd had a couple of years as a single

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Speaker 1: mum and we were living in a rural situation, so

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Speaker 1: obviously not meeting a lot of people. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: was divorced at twenty five, with two small children in

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Speaker 1: the house with me and really not a lot of

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Speaker 1: adult company, so I was pretty lonely. I'd had one

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Speaker 1: relationship that I ended because I just wasn't working for me,

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Speaker 1: and you really loved him, so that was hard. But

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Speaker 1: when I met Andrew, it was at a primary school

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Speaker 1: bar dance and some people up the road had invited

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Speaker 1: me to go meet their friends and go to this

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Speaker 1: bar dance which was raising money for the local primary school,

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Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed it. It was adult company. He

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Speaker 1: was there with his girlfriend at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: just had a great time chatting to adults, you know,

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Speaker 1: enjoying the barn dance. Nice evening went home, and about

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Speaker 1: three months later, these same friends that had hosted that

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Speaker 1: evening came back to me and said, oh, our friend Andrew,

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Speaker 1: he really wants your phone number. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome, Like he looked like a nice guy as

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Speaker 1: he'd broken up with his girlfriend. And they were like, yep, no,

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Speaker 1: that's all over. But he's been wanting your number for

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Speaker 1: three months and we haven't given it to him because

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Speaker 1: we don't think he's good enough for you. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, that's really weird. But I can make

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Speaker 1: up my own decisions about people. That's okay, give him

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Speaker 1: my number and they were really insistent, now we don't

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Speaker 1: really want to. And the end we agreed to go

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Speaker 1: on a first date that involved this wife of this

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Speaker 1: couple and her four kids and me and my two kids,

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Speaker 1: and he would take the two of us out so

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Speaker 1: I could see if I thought he was creepy or

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Speaker 1: like they were not good enough.

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Speaker 4: Did I like Andrew? Straight up?

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Speaker 1: He saved in life that first date.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's right. In the water.

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Speaker 1: Part of the date was we all went for a

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Speaker 1: walk at the beach. You stepped out and it must

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Speaker 1: have been like a deep drop. Next minute, there's no

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Speaker 1: ash anywhere. We're all looking at each other as adults,

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Speaker 1: and he just leapt into the water and dragged you

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Speaker 1: off the bottom. So like to me, it was instant hero.

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Speaker 4: True wow. That would have been a really big attraction

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Speaker 4: of like this man.

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Speaker 1: Wow. On the same date, there was a woman who

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Speaker 1: was parked somewhere and her car had a flat tire

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Speaker 1: and he'd leaped out and gone and changed your tire

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Speaker 1: for us. So I'm getting the whole hero opening the

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Speaker 1: door for me, fussing over my kids, laughing with you,

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Speaker 1: and I was like starved of affectionate, I think basically

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Speaker 1: and that he just looked like the best thing ever.

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Speaker 4: You obviously started dating. When did things turn because it

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Speaker 4: was quite quickly, wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was again a fast relationship. So we were

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Speaker 1: living together probably within about three months of meeting Wow,

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Speaker 1: And we probably saw each other every night in that

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Speaker 1: lead out.

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Speaker 4: And Matt and I enjoyed his company, did we as

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Speaker 4: young kids.

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Speaker 1: He was really good with you. He was awesome, especially Matt,

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Speaker 1: because you were just that little bit younger, so you know,

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Speaker 1: Mummy's girl. But he took Matt, who was turning five,

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Speaker 1: out on a motorbike on the farm and rides in

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Speaker 1: a truck and out amongst the animals, and like, Matt

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Speaker 1: absolutely adored Umn. Within a week of living together, I

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Speaker 1: can remember an incident that should have or did raise

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Speaker 1: red flags, Like Matt was being a pain and he

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Speaker 1: was in the bath and I think he was like

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Speaker 1: splashing water at you, and you didn't want that hre

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Speaker 1: just to bath you together when you were that little

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Speaker 1: Andrew walked to the bathroom and grabbed him by the

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Speaker 1: arm and smacked him across his button, and he had

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Speaker 1: like really big hands, and this is a small kid,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember seeing this handprint on my child's butt.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was a huge hand and it was

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Speaker 1: just shocking. And I just turned around to him then

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Speaker 1: and I said, if you ever lay a finger on

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Speaker 1: one of my kids again, I'm out of here. You'll

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Speaker 1: never see me again. And I was just so so

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Speaker 1: upset about it.

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Speaker 4: Did he say sorry?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he did say sorry, and he promised me it

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Speaker 1: would never happen again. But the reality of it was

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Speaker 1: it didn't happen again. I never saw him do it again.

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Speaker 1: He made sure I wasn't watching.

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Speaker 4: He was good at that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So he was very good at taking situations like

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Speaker 1: I promise you will never see me do that again.

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Speaker 4: Well I didn't manipulative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, didn't mean it didn't happen.

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Speaker 4: That's right, because I don't know if I've told on

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Speaker 4: the podcast. But when I was older, he would do

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Speaker 4: things when you weren't around. Because that's the questions I've

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Speaker 4: gotten when I've talked about my upbringing, is like, why

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Speaker 4: did your mum allow that to happen. I'm like, she

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Speaker 4: wasn't there, she was working. He would always do these

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Speaker 4: things when she wasn't there. So then when Mum would

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Speaker 4: come home and I would tell her He would then

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Speaker 4: be like, don't you fucking lie to your mother? How disrespectful?

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Speaker 4: Go to your room, And then Mum, you're caught in

301
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Speaker 4: the middle being like do I believe my grown ass

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Speaker 4: husband or my teenage daughter? Like you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: Like who do I believe? And I looked so hard

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Speaker 4: for you.

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Speaker 1: It was because I wanted to believe him. Before we

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Speaker 1: left New Zealand, there were a lot of people we

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Speaker 1: knew who had conversations with me, saying he is way

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Speaker 1: too strict on those kids. You've got to get him

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Speaker 1: to ease up on them, like they are going to

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Speaker 1: end up painting him. He is so strict. And he

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Speaker 1: convinced me that he was creating really good morals and

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Speaker 1: ethics in you, and that they were just too slack

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Speaker 1: with their children. So it was really good at playing

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Speaker 1: with my mind. Yes, right from the start, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and at this stage I didn't know, but he was

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Speaker 1: having an affair, and I'm sure the main reason we

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Speaker 1: actually came to Australia was he needed to get out

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Speaker 1: of town fast because it was going to be coming

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Speaker 1: to my attention.

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Speaker 4: Out of us three kids, so there's Matt, my older

321
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Speaker 4: brother Craig, my younger brother, so Andrew is Craig's father

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Speaker 4: was Matt, and I obviously have a different dad out

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Speaker 4: of the three of us. You've always said that I

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Speaker 4: was his most triggering. Why do you think I triggered

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Speaker 4: and bothered him the most?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it always seemed like a love hate relationship between

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Speaker 1: you and him. Either he was giggling and laughing with you,

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Speaker 1: like secret jokes that the rest of us didn't know about,

329
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Speaker 1: and you two were getting on really well, or then

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Speaker 1: something would always happen and he would like in the

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Speaker 1: blink of an eye, suddenly be saying to you, go

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Speaker 1: to your room, like I've had enough of you. And

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Speaker 1: it used to be like, I don't even understand what's

334
00:17:08,641 --> 00:17:11,881
Speaker 1: going on here. One minute, it's all love and light

335
00:17:11,961 --> 00:17:14,161
Speaker 1: between you, and you're the best of friends. You too,

336
00:17:14,441 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 1: like I felt like the outsider because you got on

337
00:17:17,761 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 1: so well at times and then it just flip. But

338
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Speaker 1: he did that with all of you. But for some reason,

339
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Speaker 1: I think because you ask questions and you weren't as

340
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Speaker 1: willing to take his word for things as the boys were.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think as a young girl, my intuition, I

342
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Speaker 4: don't know, there was some sense of like unsafety and

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Speaker 4: not certainty with him, and I did question a lot,

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Speaker 4: and then as I got older, I think I argued

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Speaker 4: back more than the two boys, even though I was scared.

346
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Speaker 4: I was just like, no, you're right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The boys were definitely much more accepting, and even now

348
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Speaker 1: they look back on those days and see a lot

349
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Speaker 1: less conflict. They just don't tend to remember all the conflict.

350
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Speaker 4: I feel like I've bought it all to the surface

351
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Speaker 4: so I can heel through it. I feel like the

352
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Speaker 4: boys have kind of parked and suppressed it because it's like,

353
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Speaker 4: that's my old life. Don't want to go there. Let's

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00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,400
Speaker 4: fast forward to when I'm sixteen and we're really not

355
00:18:14,441 --> 00:18:17,400
Speaker 4: getting along. Like life at home for me and my

356
00:18:17,521 --> 00:18:20,801
Speaker 4: experience was really hard. You were working, you would leave it,

357
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Speaker 4: I don't know, five something in the morning, not get

358
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Speaker 4: home till six at night, so I didn't really see

359
00:18:25,201 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 4: you much. Saw a lot more of him hated being home.

360
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Speaker 4: And then we obviously had a massive blow up and

361
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,761
Speaker 4: he texted me and told me to pack my things

362
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Speaker 4: and leave, and as a sixteen year old girl, I

363
00:18:35,441 --> 00:18:37,360
Speaker 4: was like, holy fuck, what the fuck are we going

364
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 4: to do? I was lucky I had a partner at

365
00:18:38,921 --> 00:18:41,521
Speaker 4: that time, and I packed my things and I left

366
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Speaker 4: because I was like, I don't want to be here anyway.

367
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Speaker 4: I fucking hate him. So I was so scared, but

368
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Speaker 4: I was also excited, like, oh my gosh, I'm free,

369
00:18:48,721 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 4: like I won't have to see him ever again. And

370
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Speaker 4: he hadn't gone to you, asked you, consulted with you.

371
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Speaker 4: So when I told you, you were just like, what, like,

372
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Speaker 4: what's happened?

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Speaker 1: And when it was so shocking. I'd been the brid

374
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Speaker 1: winner basically for a few years at that stage, so

375
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Speaker 1: I wasn't spending much time. I was away, as you said,

376
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Speaker 1: a lot. I never knew what I was going to

377
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,041
Speaker 1: come home to in terms of you and him, because

378
00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 1: you fought so much. I can just remember like she's gone,

379
00:19:17,201 --> 00:19:21,041
Speaker 1: just boughting my eyes out, like no, seriously, And my

380
00:19:21,201 --> 00:19:23,761
Speaker 1: instinct was, of course, I need to get my daughter back.

381
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 1: I need to get in the car and go and

382
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Speaker 1: get here. But then I thought, well, I knew the

383
00:19:28,681 --> 00:19:31,801
Speaker 1: family that you were staying with, and I knew that

384
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,801
Speaker 1: they were much more calm and stable, and yeah, they

385
00:19:36,801 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: thought the world of you, And it was like, I

386
00:19:38,721 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 1: have to come to the reality that my daughter is

387
00:19:41,721 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 1: not happy here, and he's triggered here, and this was

388
00:19:46,321 --> 00:19:51,001
Speaker 1: reverberating out on everybody, So what is actually best for

389
00:19:51,201 --> 00:19:53,521
Speaker 1: my child? I came to the conclusion that it was

390
00:19:53,721 --> 00:19:57,041
Speaker 1: just to not be there. I think I had this

391
00:19:57,321 --> 00:19:59,360
Speaker 1: story in the back of my head that you know,

392
00:20:00,041 --> 00:20:02,641
Speaker 1: my daughter's sixteen. You know, the kids are growing up

393
00:20:02,801 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: in a couple of years time, everybody, he's going to

394
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,561
Speaker 1: have flown the nest anyway, and then maybe he'll be calmer.

395
00:20:09,321 --> 00:20:12,841
Speaker 1: You know. I was still invested enough in the marriage

396
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: that thinking he'll calm down when he doesn't have to

397
00:20:16,561 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: live with all the kids. But I really thought it

398
00:20:20,321 --> 00:20:23,001
Speaker 1: was best for you to not be there. He didn't

399
00:20:23,001 --> 00:20:25,521
Speaker 1: want to have a bar of you ever again. But

400
00:20:25,561 --> 00:20:27,521
Speaker 1: for me, it was just like, Okay, we're not under

401
00:20:27,561 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 1: the same roof, but you know, nothing's going to change

402
00:20:30,201 --> 00:20:31,641
Speaker 1: as far as our relationship.

403
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,241
Speaker 4: What would you say in your marriage and life with him?

404
00:20:37,321 --> 00:20:39,961
Speaker 4: What was the hardest moment for you?

405
00:20:40,681 --> 00:20:45,561
Speaker 1: The actual breakup was the hardest for me personally. There's

406
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,521
Speaker 1: so many disappointments, Like right from that first red flag,

407
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: there was disappointment after disappointment, you know, the way he

408
00:20:53,001 --> 00:20:57,681
Speaker 1: handled things, the way he behaved in situations like he

409
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: was very explosive and so narcissistic that I didn't realize

410
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,360
Speaker 1: all the games that were being played with my head.

411
00:21:07,681 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 1: I was this corporate person going to work and playing

412
00:21:10,721 --> 00:21:14,001
Speaker 1: that role, and then I was coming home and he

413
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: was making me sleep outside with the dog because I

414
00:21:16,801 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: snored too loud. I would literally sleep on the back

415
00:21:21,921 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: deck with the dog at night and then get up

416
00:21:24,481 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 1: and put my clothes on and go and be a

417
00:21:26,721 --> 00:21:30,041
Speaker 1: corporate boss. There was a time when because Matt had

418
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: left home, he came home after drinking one night and

419
00:21:34,201 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 1: he was trying to sneak into the house and he

420
00:21:36,441 --> 00:21:39,241
Speaker 1: came up around the back deck and found me sleeping

421
00:21:39,281 --> 00:21:42,801
Speaker 1: with the dog, and he just went inside and went

422
00:21:43,041 --> 00:21:47,721
Speaker 1: absolutely ballistic at Andrew. He just completely lost his shit.

423
00:21:48,521 --> 00:21:53,001
Speaker 1: I think the realization for me came when we'd split up,

424
00:21:53,721 --> 00:21:56,561
Speaker 1: and I think it's really important thing that I learned

425
00:21:57,201 --> 00:21:59,961
Speaker 1: was there's a saying that, and I'm saying it completely wrong.

426
00:22:00,001 --> 00:22:02,281
Speaker 1: But this is the gist of the story. If you

427
00:22:02,441 --> 00:22:06,441
Speaker 1: rescue a lion from a trap, for example, and it's injured,

428
00:22:06,761 --> 00:22:09,761
Speaker 1: don't expect it not to eat you when it's hungry,

429
00:22:09,761 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: because it's still a lion. And that's the analogy that

430
00:22:14,201 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: really got me to realize that Andrew's basically a snake

431
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,521
Speaker 1: and he was going to behave really badly and that's

432
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,001
Speaker 1: the character that he's got. This is my opinion, this

433
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,761
Speaker 1: is my truth. Whereas I was trying to live by

434
00:22:28,761 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, I would never do this

435
00:22:31,441 --> 00:22:34,481
Speaker 1: to him. So of course he's not really hitting my children,

436
00:22:34,761 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: he's not really driving past them when it's raining. Of

437
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,041
Speaker 1: course he's not. I would never do that, So why

438
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,041
Speaker 1: would he do that? And that's the thinking that had

439
00:22:44,041 --> 00:22:46,761
Speaker 1: got me stuck where I couldn't see him for what

440
00:22:46,801 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: he really was.

441
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 5: How long were you in this marriage.

442
00:22:50,521 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: For Wendy seventeen years?

443
00:22:53,041 --> 00:22:55,321
Speaker 5: When did you first find out about the affairs as well?

444
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 5: And was that what made you leave?

445
00:22:57,281 --> 00:23:01,921
Speaker 1: During that seventeen years, there'd been at least three times

446
00:23:01,961 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: when people had either rung me in the middle of

447
00:23:04,481 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: the night say do you know what your husband's doing?

448
00:23:07,281 --> 00:23:10,241
Speaker 1: There'd been all these warning signs that he was having

449
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,681
Speaker 1: an affair, but he always managed to talk his way

450
00:23:13,681 --> 00:23:14,161
Speaker 1: out of it.

451
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:16,801
Speaker 4: He makes you feel crazy, hey, He'd be like, if

452
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,881
Speaker 4: you'd accuse it, that's disgusting. Is that what you're doing

453
00:23:19,001 --> 00:23:20,041
Speaker 4: How could you even think of that?

454
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: Like, exactly what sort of person are you?

455
00:23:23,921 --> 00:23:24,001
Speaker 4: Like?

456
00:23:24,201 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: You are sick, you are mental? If you can think

457
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: that about me, I just fear it even going there.

458
00:23:29,961 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 1: I had friends who offered to pay for a private

459
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,321
Speaker 1: investigator if I'd let them do it, but I was like, now,

460
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: what does that say about me that I don't trust him?

461
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 5: Looking out for you too?

462
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:46,001
Speaker 1: By the same yeah, the last year he was like distant, depressed,

463
00:23:46,681 --> 00:23:49,241
Speaker 1: and I spent that year trying to find ways that

464
00:23:49,281 --> 00:23:52,041
Speaker 1: I could be a better wife so he would want

465
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: to be around me. And then one day I was

466
00:23:58,441 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: making his favorite meal for the barbecue, marinating some lamb.

467
00:24:03,681 --> 00:24:06,521
Speaker 1: I can remember it. That was like doing a thing,

468
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: and the phone rang and it was just like a

469
00:24:08,521 --> 00:24:12,961
Speaker 1: landline back then. And answered the phone and this guy said, oh,

470
00:24:13,041 --> 00:24:15,801
Speaker 1: my name's Mark. I think it's time we had a talk.

471
00:24:16,721 --> 00:24:19,321
Speaker 1: And I went, oh, okay, who are you Mark? And

472
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,961
Speaker 1: he said, oh, I'm I won't say a name her

473
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: husband And I was like, okay, so who's she? And

474
00:24:26,481 --> 00:24:29,521
Speaker 1: he said you can't tell me, you don't know. And

475
00:24:29,561 --> 00:24:31,961
Speaker 1: I said, what are you talking about? And he said, well,

476
00:24:32,041 --> 00:24:36,041
Speaker 1: right now, my wife and your husband are round house hunting.

477
00:24:36,801 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, how devastating.

478
00:24:39,521 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: And I was just like, you know, and then he

479
00:24:41,681 --> 00:24:45,281
Speaker 1: started to tell me information that he couldn't possibly know

480
00:24:46,241 --> 00:24:50,321
Speaker 1: unless this was true, and it was nice. It had

481
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: been going for over a year that he knew of,

482
00:24:53,041 --> 00:24:55,001
Speaker 1: so I don't know even it could have been longer

483
00:24:55,041 --> 00:24:58,561
Speaker 1: than that. So yeah, I got off the phone, and

484
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: then I rang his number and I said, the game's up.

485
00:25:01,761 --> 00:25:03,481
Speaker 1: I just said a call from Mark. I don't think

486
00:25:03,481 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: you should by the coming home?

487
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 4: And what did he say?

488
00:25:06,241 --> 00:25:08,321
Speaker 1: He was just like, ah, no, I'm going to be

489
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,521
Speaker 1: there soon. And at that stage I rang you. Yeah,

490
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: I remember, and you and Steve came down to the

491
00:25:14,761 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: house for me so that I wouldn't be on my

492
00:25:17,241 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: own if he turned up. And Steve got a lopsmouth

493
00:25:19,961 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: out there straight away, I started pecking his stuff into

494
00:25:23,721 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 1: big rubbish bags, threw them out on the front lawn.

495
00:25:27,681 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 4: Is this the same day where he tried to grab

496
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:30,441
Speaker 4: the dog?

497
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: Yes, so it tried more than once.

498
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,921
Speaker 4: Steve and I were there. I remember when he pulled

499
00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:37,241
Speaker 4: up my nervous system.

500
00:25:37,681 --> 00:25:39,241
Speaker 5: How long had it been since you'd seen him?

501
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,321
Speaker 4: I would have been years since i'd seen him, right.

502
00:25:41,201 --> 00:25:43,001
Speaker 1: Moum, I think it would have been here.

503
00:25:43,281 --> 00:25:45,321
Speaker 4: Yes, I was just so nervous, but I felt so

504
00:25:45,441 --> 00:25:48,321
Speaker 4: protected because I had Steve, and even when I left home,

505
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 4: I had left to go be with my boyfriend and

506
00:25:49,921 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 4: his Family's always felt protected because I had Luke and

507
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,761
Speaker 4: he was really protective of me as well. So I

508
00:25:54,801 --> 00:25:56,561
Speaker 4: never felt scared of Andrew again because I was like,

509
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,561
Speaker 4: I've got someone now. So Steve and I were there

510
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: and Andrew comes. He pulls in really fast, and he

511
00:26:01,961 --> 00:26:05,041
Speaker 4: comes stamping up the stairs and goes into the room,

512
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,321
Speaker 4: grab some stuff and then tries to grab the labrador,

513
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,321
Speaker 4: which is like, no, you're not taking our family dog.

514
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,001
Speaker 4: And I remember Steve just grabbed his arm and said

515
00:26:13,041 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 4: and Steve's like so cool and calm. He was like no, mate,

516
00:26:16,281 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 4: and he tried to go him again, and Steve just

517
00:26:17,681 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 4: like karate, chopped his arm, so he had to like leave.

518
00:26:21,201 --> 00:26:24,241
Speaker 4: Then he went back into the bedroom, didn't he, mum

519
00:26:24,441 --> 00:26:27,441
Speaker 4: and lay down? This is yeah, this is so odd.

520
00:26:27,481 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 4: So he went back into the bedroom, laid down, hopped

521
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 4: under the doner and rolled over to go to sleep.

522
00:26:32,721 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: And it was the spear bedroom.

523
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,561
Speaker 4: It was, so I was like, get out, mate, I'm

524
00:26:38,561 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 4: gonna say what I did. I carry a little bit

525
00:26:41,001 --> 00:26:43,041
Speaker 4: of shame, some like wow, you psycho, But then I'm

526
00:26:43,041 --> 00:26:46,001
Speaker 4: also like, I was like eighteen nineteen at the time, Mum,

527
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,401
Speaker 4: and I was just all these years of abuse and

528
00:26:48,481 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 4: trauma and sadness and fear. It all came out in

529
00:26:51,681 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 4: this moment. I went and got a shoe and I

530
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,281
Speaker 4: went up to his face and I started yelling in

531
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,321
Speaker 4: his face and I said get out, get out, like

532
00:27:00,521 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 4: get out, and Steve and Mum just stood back and

533
00:27:02,801 --> 00:27:04,761
Speaker 4: just allowed me to do my thing. He just laid

534
00:27:04,801 --> 00:27:08,281
Speaker 4: there casually with a smirky, smart ass look on his face,

535
00:27:08,321 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: and I grabbed the shoe, which was his shoe, and

536
00:27:11,041 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 4: I whacked him in the head and I said get out.

537
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 4: He didn't move, and I whacked him again, and he

538
00:27:16,681 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 4: got up and he left. I just felt so like

539
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 4: I've got my power back in this moment, which obviously

540
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,041
Speaker 4: isn't nice when you're hitting someone with the shoe, but

541
00:27:24,041 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 4: it was the first time in my life that I

542
00:27:25,681 --> 00:27:29,281
Speaker 4: was like, you can't hurt me, No, you can't hurt me.

543
00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:31,561
Speaker 4: And you know, in that moment, I almost like wanted

544
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 4: him to so that you, Mum could see I know

545
00:27:34,201 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 4: you believe me at this point, but I wanted you

546
00:27:35,921 --> 00:27:38,721
Speaker 4: to see like who he really was. But I knew

547
00:27:38,721 --> 00:27:41,001
Speaker 4: he wouldn't touch me when they were there, but I

548
00:27:41,041 --> 00:27:42,881
Speaker 4: was like, get out and never come back.

549
00:27:42,961 --> 00:27:44,721
Speaker 5: So did He used to physically hurt you as well

550
00:27:44,721 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 5: when he wasn't around.

551
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yep.

552
00:27:48,721 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: And he used to physically hurt me too. Liked he

553
00:27:50,961 --> 00:27:54,201
Speaker 1: hurt us all but in that last year he would

554
00:27:54,201 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: pretend that he was having bad dreams where he was

555
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: chasing a rubber and had to punch the rubber, but

556
00:28:00,041 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: he was punching.

557
00:28:00,801 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 4: Me instantly in the bed.

558
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'd wake up getting punched. I guess this

559
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,041
Speaker 1: is probably why the back dick didn't seem so bad,

560
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: because if I was in the bead, he was going

561
00:28:11,241 --> 00:28:11,801
Speaker 1: to punch me.

562
00:28:13,321 --> 00:28:16,561
Speaker 4: He did actually stop hitting me at one point. I remember,

563
00:28:16,561 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 4: because Matt and I lived downstairs. There was two bedrooms

564
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 4: right next to each other. Andrews chased me down the

565
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,721
Speaker 4: stairs sometimes if we were like in an argument and

566
00:28:23,761 --> 00:28:26,241
Speaker 4: he'd come to whack me. Scary, so scary, and I

567
00:28:26,241 --> 00:28:28,281
Speaker 4: sprinted downstairs and my older brother grabbed me by the

568
00:28:28,321 --> 00:28:30,921
Speaker 4: shoulders and he was like, don't react, don't cry, don't

569
00:28:30,921 --> 00:28:32,721
Speaker 4: say anything. Just let him hit you. He won't even

570
00:28:32,721 --> 00:28:36,041
Speaker 4: touch you again. Just do not react. So he smacked me,

571
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,041
Speaker 4: and I stood there and I didn't have any tears,

572
00:28:38,041 --> 00:28:40,161
Speaker 4: I had no reaction. I just stood there and he

573
00:28:40,201 --> 00:28:42,161
Speaker 4: did again, like four or five times, just whacked me

574
00:28:42,201 --> 00:28:45,081
Speaker 4: on the ass, and Matt was there watching, and I

575
00:28:45,161 --> 00:28:47,961
Speaker 4: just maintained eye contact with Matt and just did not react.

576
00:28:48,001 --> 00:28:50,361
Speaker 4: And he never touched me again after that. So I

577
00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 4: don't know if that was a moment of just like.

578
00:28:51,921 --> 00:28:54,161
Speaker 5: A power thing, yeah, I can hurt her, and wanting

579
00:28:54,201 --> 00:28:54,721
Speaker 5: to see you.

580
00:28:54,801 --> 00:28:57,281
Speaker 4: He wanted to see me crumble. But I was like, no,

581
00:28:57,321 --> 00:28:59,481
Speaker 4: not anymore. And that was the best advice Matt ever

582
00:28:59,521 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 4: gave me, because he never touched me again after that.

583
00:29:02,161 --> 00:29:05,721
Speaker 4: So after all this happened, then things got really bad

584
00:29:05,761 --> 00:29:07,761
Speaker 4: in the way of threats. And I think this is

585
00:29:07,761 --> 00:29:11,121
Speaker 4: a really important conversation because you know, your whole life

586
00:29:11,481 --> 00:29:14,121
Speaker 4: was obviously crumbling around. You'd found out about this affair,

587
00:29:14,801 --> 00:29:18,001
Speaker 4: he'd moved out, but he then started threatening us. And

588
00:29:18,081 --> 00:29:21,081
Speaker 4: we're not just talking like little threats. We're talking like

589
00:29:21,281 --> 00:29:24,361
Speaker 4: I'm going to come and burn the house down, like beware, basically,

590
00:29:24,401 --> 00:29:25,841
Speaker 4: like I'm going to come and kill you, and you

591
00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 4: went to the police, and the police really didn't do

592
00:29:29,041 --> 00:29:29,801
Speaker 4: much to protect you.

593
00:29:29,921 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: Right as soon as I found out about the affair,

594
00:29:32,601 --> 00:29:35,761
Speaker 1: I kicked him out, and he still felt he had

595
00:29:35,961 --> 00:29:39,601
Speaker 1: rights as far as the house, the family. I mean,

596
00:29:39,641 --> 00:29:42,361
Speaker 1: we'd had this conversation. You're married for a long time.

597
00:29:42,841 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: You have conversations about what happens if one of your

598
00:29:45,561 --> 00:29:49,081
Speaker 1: cheats or whatever that had always been, you know, if

599
00:29:49,081 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: one of us cheats, that person just needs to walk away.

600
00:29:52,481 --> 00:29:55,161
Speaker 1: They need to have no claim on anything. But for

601
00:29:55,161 --> 00:29:58,121
Speaker 1: some reason when it actually happened, he was like, you know, no,

602
00:29:58,281 --> 00:30:00,121
Speaker 1: I own this house too, and if I want to

603
00:30:00,161 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: live in it still I will. Because his girlfriend is

604
00:30:05,241 --> 00:30:08,881
Speaker 1: obviously still living with her husband at that stage and

605
00:30:08,921 --> 00:30:11,521
Speaker 1: they hadn't got a place on their own. So for

606
00:30:11,561 --> 00:30:14,761
Speaker 1: about three or four months afterwards, there was this constant

607
00:30:14,801 --> 00:30:17,561
Speaker 1: tussle of him wanting to move back into the house,

608
00:30:18,041 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: me trying to understand what had happened, and there was

609
00:30:21,721 --> 00:30:25,121
Speaker 1: a lot of history between them that was torturing me

610
00:30:25,241 --> 00:30:29,041
Speaker 1: and trying to work my way through trying to understand

611
00:30:29,241 --> 00:30:32,681
Speaker 1: how our kids fitted into all of this. Like you know,

612
00:30:32,801 --> 00:30:37,361
Speaker 1: obviously Craig was still at school and this is his dad.

613
00:30:38,241 --> 00:30:42,441
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to navigate all of that. Andrew got

614
00:30:42,641 --> 00:30:47,121
Speaker 1: more and more angry, and then he started with the threats,

615
00:30:47,121 --> 00:30:48,961
Speaker 1: and it was just like, you know, I will burn

616
00:30:49,001 --> 00:30:51,201
Speaker 1: the house down if you won't let me come back,

617
00:30:51,241 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: and just be aware I've got access to your car.

618
00:30:56,401 --> 00:30:59,801
Speaker 1: So I was just scared all the time, to the

619
00:30:59,881 --> 00:31:03,081
Speaker 1: point where I worked in a building that had a

620
00:31:03,081 --> 00:31:05,881
Speaker 1: lot of security and that was the only I felt

621
00:31:06,041 --> 00:31:08,641
Speaker 1: safe that he couldn't get to me. But I was

622
00:31:08,681 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: still scared that he'd get at my car in the carpet.

623
00:31:12,081 --> 00:31:17,241
Speaker 1: I remember driving home one day and somebody's car was backfiring,

624
00:31:18,121 --> 00:31:21,401
Speaker 1: and I'm hunkering down in the seat because I seriously

625
00:31:21,441 --> 00:31:23,921
Speaker 1: thought that he was out there with a gun trying

626
00:31:23,921 --> 00:31:28,881
Speaker 1: to shoot me. He'd also like Pepper this with conversations

627
00:31:28,961 --> 00:31:31,361
Speaker 1: with me, like, you know, you and I could still

628
00:31:31,361 --> 00:31:34,001
Speaker 1: make a go of it. You and I could still

629
00:31:34,001 --> 00:31:37,201
Speaker 1: get back together. And he suggested that the best way

630
00:31:37,241 --> 00:31:39,841
Speaker 1: to do that would be for him and I to

631
00:31:39,961 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: pack up and move to Tasmania and never have anything

632
00:31:43,761 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: to do with the kids again. It just be the

633
00:31:47,361 --> 00:31:50,961
Speaker 1: two of us and I could go to work and

634
00:31:51,161 --> 00:31:53,401
Speaker 1: he would just do fishing in that because he wasn't

635
00:31:53,441 --> 00:31:57,561
Speaker 1: really interested in working anymore. Oh my, I can remember saying,

636
00:31:57,601 --> 00:32:00,721
Speaker 1: you still don't get that my kids in my first priority.

637
00:32:01,201 --> 00:32:04,161
Speaker 1: His response to that was, that is the problem.

638
00:32:04,561 --> 00:32:07,241
Speaker 3: I love that you've always made your kids your number

639
00:32:07,281 --> 00:32:10,921
Speaker 3: one priority. That's beautiful because so many people being in

640
00:32:10,961 --> 00:32:14,721
Speaker 3: a toxic relationship like that, they really can give everything

641
00:32:14,841 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 3: to their partner and distance himself from their kids. So

642
00:32:18,321 --> 00:32:20,441
Speaker 3: it's beautiful that you've always kept that as your number

643
00:32:20,441 --> 00:32:21,121
Speaker 3: one priority.

644
00:32:21,361 --> 00:32:24,201
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one day, is suggested, and the next day,

645
00:32:24,241 --> 00:32:25,121
Speaker 1: he's going to kill me.

646
00:32:25,401 --> 00:32:26,881
Speaker 4: And you went to the police, and what did they

647
00:32:26,921 --> 00:32:27,401
Speaker 4: say to you?

648
00:32:28,041 --> 00:32:31,081
Speaker 1: I got some texts from him one night saying that

649
00:32:31,161 --> 00:32:33,161
Speaker 1: he was going to kill me. I went to the

650
00:32:33,201 --> 00:32:37,481
Speaker 1: police station. We can't do anything until something happens.

651
00:32:37,961 --> 00:32:40,521
Speaker 4: Isn't that mind blowing? Like, oh, okay, when he kills you,

652
00:32:40,561 --> 00:32:42,921
Speaker 4: then we'll step in and help. What kind of systems

653
00:32:42,921 --> 00:32:46,841
Speaker 4: that to protect women in domestic abuse of relationships and situations?

654
00:32:47,081 --> 00:32:49,161
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's slightly better now, but it was

655
00:32:49,361 --> 00:32:53,401
Speaker 1: devastating to be told that. And then the next week

656
00:32:53,641 --> 00:32:57,481
Speaker 1: or so in Rabina, a woman and her child were

657
00:32:57,561 --> 00:33:00,241
Speaker 1: killed by her X. That was like a real way

658
00:33:00,321 --> 00:33:03,161
Speaker 1: cap call to me like this is really serious stuff.

659
00:33:03,201 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: He might actually go through with it.

660
00:33:06,121 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: So you packed up and left.

661
00:33:07,881 --> 00:33:11,081
Speaker 1: Yeah. I changed my name, I changed my job, I

662
00:33:11,201 --> 00:33:14,641
Speaker 1: changed the state I lived in, and I gave the

663
00:33:14,721 --> 00:33:17,081
Speaker 1: keys to our house because we still had a mortgage

664
00:33:17,161 --> 00:33:19,201
Speaker 1: on it to the bank. And I walked away.

665
00:33:20,001 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 5: Wow, what a strong woman to make that decision.

666
00:33:22,801 --> 00:33:22,921
Speaker 2: Up.

667
00:33:23,201 --> 00:33:25,481
Speaker 4: You, Matt and Craig all left And the only reason

668
00:33:25,521 --> 00:33:27,441
Speaker 4: I didn't go is because I had Steve up here.

669
00:33:27,761 --> 00:33:30,241
Speaker 4: But you guys all left to another state, another town,

670
00:33:30,401 --> 00:33:32,881
Speaker 4: a quiet little town that you've never been to before,

671
00:33:33,201 --> 00:33:34,601
Speaker 4: and started a whole new life.

672
00:33:35,321 --> 00:33:39,281
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got the dog, yes dog. As soon

673
00:33:39,321 --> 00:33:42,281
Speaker 1: as I left the Gold Coast, I had no contact.

674
00:33:42,401 --> 00:33:44,241
Speaker 1: I've never spoken to him since.

675
00:33:44,601 --> 00:33:47,761
Speaker 4: Wow, I've seen him. I was working out at a gym.

676
00:33:47,921 --> 00:33:49,481
Speaker 4: I'm trying to paint a picture here for you guys.

677
00:33:49,481 --> 00:33:52,081
Speaker 4: So the gym was outdoors, and next to it was

678
00:33:52,281 --> 00:33:54,561
Speaker 4: a glazier So Andrew it was a glass place that

679
00:33:54,601 --> 00:33:56,521
Speaker 4: he worked at. I didn't know he worked there. And

680
00:33:56,561 --> 00:33:58,361
Speaker 4: I was working out at this gym that had like

681
00:33:58,681 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 4: a fence so you could see straight through to this

682
00:34:00,481 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 4: glass company. And I'm training by myself. And there's this

683
00:34:03,761 --> 00:34:05,841
Speaker 4: one man that's always been my life since I was

684
00:34:05,841 --> 00:34:08,121
Speaker 4: a teenager. His name's Ryan, and I'm still friends with

685
00:34:08,161 --> 00:34:10,121
Speaker 4: them to this day. Him and Steve are still really close.

686
00:34:10,561 --> 00:34:12,161
Speaker 4: But it was his gym, so I was training there

687
00:34:12,441 --> 00:34:17,081
Speaker 4: and this ute pulls up and guess who gets out Andrew.

688
00:34:17,521 --> 00:34:20,361
Speaker 4: And he comes to the fence and starts calling me

689
00:34:20,641 --> 00:34:25,841
Speaker 4: all these names. You dirty, fucking slut, you motherfucker. You

690
00:34:25,921 --> 00:34:30,641
Speaker 4: rode my life. I'm gonna get you out, like absolutely

691
00:34:30,801 --> 00:34:35,121
Speaker 4: losing his marbles. My body went into freeze. I completely

692
00:34:35,401 --> 00:34:42,041
Speaker 4: froze Ryan, who's this like six foot huge, musty tattoo

693
00:34:42,241 --> 00:34:43,881
Speaker 4: like looks so scary.

694
00:34:44,001 --> 00:34:44,281
Speaker 1: Ryan.

695
00:34:45,121 --> 00:34:48,161
Speaker 4: He walks over and he goes, what the fuck's going

696
00:34:48,241 --> 00:34:50,641
Speaker 4: on here? And I said to Ryan, he knew this.

697
00:34:51,001 --> 00:34:53,801
Speaker 4: I said, that's my stepdad. Ryan gets out and bolts

698
00:34:53,801 --> 00:34:56,801
Speaker 4: to go and get him. Andrew sprints, jumps in his

699
00:34:56,841 --> 00:35:00,361
Speaker 4: car and leaves. And Ryan went into the glass place

700
00:35:00,401 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 4: and made a complain or whatever, and apparently Andrew never

701
00:35:02,481 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 4: went back. Good. Ryan scared him away.

702
00:35:05,241 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: Good.

703
00:35:05,881 --> 00:35:08,561
Speaker 4: In all of this, Mum, like there's been so many

704
00:35:08,561 --> 00:35:10,641
Speaker 4: hard times or whatever, but me and you always talk

705
00:35:10,641 --> 00:35:13,441
Speaker 4: about it that like we wouldn't change any of it.

706
00:35:13,441 --> 00:35:17,401
Speaker 4: It's really made us learn so much about ourselves, about

707
00:35:17,401 --> 00:35:20,841
Speaker 4: other people, about relationships, you know, even me and you

708
00:35:20,921 --> 00:35:23,601
Speaker 4: have spoken about the moments that you know weren't our

709
00:35:23,681 --> 00:35:27,041
Speaker 4: proudest moments in this whole dynamic. And you've learned a

710
00:35:27,041 --> 00:35:30,241
Speaker 4: lot about masculine and feminine energy in relationships, and you

711
00:35:30,241 --> 00:35:33,321
Speaker 4: know how you were always in survival mode, and just

712
00:35:33,361 --> 00:35:35,881
Speaker 4: has been so many cool lessons that we wouldn't be

713
00:35:35,921 --> 00:35:38,601
Speaker 4: the people we are now if we didn't go through

714
00:35:38,641 --> 00:35:40,761
Speaker 4: all that experience, Like, yes, we wouldn't we should upont

715
00:35:40,801 --> 00:35:43,321
Speaker 4: our worst enemy. But we've definitely come out the other side,

716
00:35:43,361 --> 00:35:45,721
Speaker 4: and it's really helped bring us closer, and I think

717
00:35:45,721 --> 00:35:48,121
Speaker 4: it's helped me be the parent I am today. And

718
00:35:48,161 --> 00:35:50,321
Speaker 4: it's also helped me attract a partner that was the

719
00:35:50,361 --> 00:35:53,001
Speaker 4: complete opposite to what I saw growing up. So that

720
00:35:53,081 --> 00:35:56,881
Speaker 4: in itself has been an incredible gift. What has been

721
00:35:57,161 --> 00:36:01,041
Speaker 4: your top couple of lessons you've learned throughout this journey.

722
00:36:01,281 --> 00:36:04,241
Speaker 1: I think probably one of the biggest ones is that

723
00:36:04,721 --> 00:36:09,321
Speaker 1: we're not I'm not here to fix somebody else. Narcissists

724
00:36:09,321 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: are very good at finding women who want to help

725
00:36:12,041 --> 00:36:16,481
Speaker 1: them solve their problems and basically fix them, and that's

726
00:36:16,641 --> 00:36:20,081
Speaker 1: not a healthy relationship. Has taken me to get to

727
00:36:20,121 --> 00:36:23,801
Speaker 1: my third marriage. Before it was always vital flight or

728
00:36:24,241 --> 00:36:28,161
Speaker 1: dramatic situations, and you don't have to live like that.

729
00:36:28,441 --> 00:36:32,201
Speaker 1: The ideal partner is really somebody who wants for you

730
00:36:32,321 --> 00:36:35,601
Speaker 1: to be happy, not for you to fix them.

731
00:36:35,681 --> 00:36:37,681
Speaker 4: What kind of advice would you give to your younger self?

732
00:36:37,721 --> 00:36:38,961
Speaker 4: Looking back, I think.

733
00:36:38,841 --> 00:36:41,481
Speaker 1: My advice to myself was like, actually listen to what

734
00:36:41,561 --> 00:36:43,841
Speaker 1: other people have to say and take it on board.

735
00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:48,121
Speaker 1: I had people warning me right from the start, and

736
00:36:48,841 --> 00:36:52,081
Speaker 1: I didn't heed the warning signs. I was too much

737
00:36:52,201 --> 00:36:54,601
Speaker 1: of the story in my head that if I'm a

738
00:36:54,641 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: good person, other people will be good people too, and

739
00:36:58,481 --> 00:37:00,401
Speaker 1: it's just not true, unfortunately.

740
00:37:00,801 --> 00:37:03,641
Speaker 4: And what advice would you give to someone that's in

741
00:37:03,761 --> 00:37:09,201
Speaker 4: a really toxic, abusive, unhappy relationship and they feel so

742
00:37:09,441 --> 00:37:11,761
Speaker 4: stuck and they don't know how to get out, they're

743
00:37:11,801 --> 00:37:14,041
Speaker 4: scared to get out, Like, what do you have any

744
00:37:14,081 --> 00:37:15,881
Speaker 4: advice that you would give them if they're listening.

745
00:37:16,561 --> 00:37:20,361
Speaker 1: I think the truth is that there is always better

746
00:37:20,601 --> 00:37:24,721
Speaker 1: to look forward to. So my life is nothing like

747
00:37:24,921 --> 00:37:28,361
Speaker 1: what it was back then, and at the time I

748
00:37:28,401 --> 00:37:31,521
Speaker 1: didn't want to let go of this relationship or the

749
00:37:31,561 --> 00:37:36,561
Speaker 1: whole dynamic, because I was afraid that I was losing something.

750
00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:40,361
Speaker 1: And in fact, when you let go of a relationship

751
00:37:40,401 --> 00:37:46,401
Speaker 1: that's toxic, you gain. So it's just getting that story

752
00:37:46,601 --> 00:37:49,801
Speaker 1: that's in your head that you've got things to lose.

753
00:37:50,521 --> 00:37:53,201
Speaker 1: Take that story and give it a different perspective. But

754
00:37:53,401 --> 00:37:57,481
Speaker 1: what if I got to gain? And the things that

755
00:37:57,521 --> 00:38:01,361
Speaker 1: you've got to gain aren't to do with material things,

756
00:38:01,441 --> 00:38:05,041
Speaker 1: your house, that sort of thing that can all be replaced.

757
00:38:05,161 --> 00:38:07,841
Speaker 1: I know that sounds easy to say, that sort of

758
00:38:07,881 --> 00:38:10,321
Speaker 1: thing can come and go in your life. It's your

759
00:38:10,361 --> 00:38:14,881
Speaker 1: own self respect, it's your own sense of being. You

760
00:38:15,041 --> 00:38:20,641
Speaker 1: have to develop your own identity without that connection to

761
00:38:20,761 --> 00:38:24,161
Speaker 1: someone else. That's unhealthy because that's just going to hold

762
00:38:24,201 --> 00:38:24,761
Speaker 1: you back.

763
00:38:26,561 --> 00:38:29,041
Speaker 4: And it's not easy for you to pack up your life,

764
00:38:29,041 --> 00:38:31,401
Speaker 4: pack up the boxes of the house, like change your name,

765
00:38:31,681 --> 00:38:33,641
Speaker 4: get the two boys, get a new job, like drive

766
00:38:33,681 --> 00:38:35,801
Speaker 4: to a new state, go to a little town that

767
00:38:35,801 --> 00:38:38,641
Speaker 4: you've never been to before. Like obviously that was really scary, uncomfortable,

768
00:38:38,641 --> 00:38:40,161
Speaker 4: but you did it, and you can do it, and

769
00:38:40,161 --> 00:38:40,801
Speaker 4: so can others.

770
00:38:40,881 --> 00:38:43,521
Speaker 1: Right absolutely, And the truth of it was, at the

771
00:38:43,601 --> 00:38:46,601
Speaker 1: end of that marriage, I did not know who I

772
00:38:46,921 --> 00:38:51,041
Speaker 1: was because I'd spent so many years basically just trying

773
00:38:51,081 --> 00:38:54,961
Speaker 1: to manage the peace, burying me and what he needed

774
00:38:55,001 --> 00:38:57,881
Speaker 1: and wanted, and what I had to provide as a mother,

775
00:38:57,961 --> 00:39:00,161
Speaker 1: and what I needed to give to work. There was

776
00:39:00,241 --> 00:39:03,681
Speaker 1: no me left. So that was the big game for me,

777
00:39:03,841 --> 00:39:07,361
Speaker 1: is that by changing my name, by changing where I live,

778
00:39:07,441 --> 00:39:11,001
Speaker 1: by changing everything in my life, I got to reinvent myself.

779
00:39:11,441 --> 00:39:15,601
Speaker 1: That's cool, be brave, take that step. Do it for

780
00:39:15,641 --> 00:39:18,281
Speaker 1: you because you need to be able to know who

781
00:39:18,321 --> 00:39:21,081
Speaker 1: you are in life. People were saying to me, oh,

782
00:39:21,161 --> 00:39:23,201
Speaker 1: this is awesome. He's out of your life. You can

783
00:39:23,241 --> 00:39:26,001
Speaker 1: do all the things that you like to do. And

784
00:39:26,081 --> 00:39:29,121
Speaker 1: I was like, seriously, I do not know what I

785
00:39:29,241 --> 00:39:32,761
Speaker 1: like to do. I don't know anymore. It was like

786
00:39:32,841 --> 00:39:36,721
Speaker 1: a new discovery. I started like cooking, doing recipes I

787
00:39:36,761 --> 00:39:40,401
Speaker 1: really like to make, and just one by one gathering

788
00:39:40,601 --> 00:39:42,721
Speaker 1: sort of like a tool belt of things that were

789
00:39:42,761 --> 00:39:45,841
Speaker 1: about what I liked. Now I do know who I am,

790
00:39:45,921 --> 00:39:48,961
Speaker 1: I know what I like. It's such a bit of life,

791
00:39:49,401 --> 00:39:51,081
Speaker 1: not in that toxic relationship.

792
00:39:51,201 --> 00:39:55,121
Speaker 4: We are so lucky in this generation of this is

793
00:39:55,121 --> 00:39:57,241
Speaker 4: like the light of social media as we have like

794
00:39:57,721 --> 00:40:03,201
Speaker 4: courses and YouTube and podcasts and coaches and TV shows

795
00:40:03,241 --> 00:40:06,441
Speaker 4: and documentaries and all all these things that like teach

796
00:40:06,481 --> 00:40:11,241
Speaker 4: you about relationships, about finding yourself, about boundaries, like about

797
00:40:11,561 --> 00:40:14,041
Speaker 4: your own beliefs and values and morals and how important

798
00:40:14,041 --> 00:40:16,001
Speaker 4: the first seven years of your life is like all

799
00:40:16,001 --> 00:40:18,281
Speaker 4: this stuff. Like you don't get talk growing up, especially

800
00:40:18,321 --> 00:40:20,881
Speaker 4: in your generation, mum, like your age group, Like you

801
00:40:20,881 --> 00:40:22,641
Speaker 4: didn't have access to all of this. So as you're

802
00:40:22,681 --> 00:40:25,561
Speaker 4: going through all of this, you're literally navigating this as

803
00:40:25,601 --> 00:40:28,121
Speaker 4: a young woman that just has no idea about any

804
00:40:28,161 --> 00:40:31,201
Speaker 4: of this. You're totally winging it. There's no knowledge, there's

805
00:40:31,201 --> 00:40:33,961
Speaker 4: no experience, there's no handbook, there's no even your parents

806
00:40:34,001 --> 00:40:36,161
Speaker 4: are not there helping guide you because they didn't know,

807
00:40:36,441 --> 00:40:38,881
Speaker 4: not anyone to therapy. In those days, it wasn't a

808
00:40:38,921 --> 00:40:40,081
Speaker 4: normal thing to be like I'm just going to go

809
00:40:40,121 --> 00:40:42,961
Speaker 4: see my psychology. That's so normal now if I just regulated,

810
00:40:43,001 --> 00:40:46,041
Speaker 4: I'm like a session with a coach and like all

811
00:40:46,041 --> 00:40:47,921
Speaker 4: my friends are aligned do we chat about these deep

812
00:40:47,961 --> 00:40:51,401
Speaker 4: conversations and we've got a support system, Like I can't

813
00:40:51,441 --> 00:40:54,961
Speaker 4: imagine going through everything you've been through with no support,

814
00:40:55,121 --> 00:40:56,601
Speaker 4: So hush, yeah.

815
00:40:56,961 --> 00:40:59,881
Speaker 1: I think there's massive pressures on you know, the young

816
00:41:00,001 --> 00:41:04,241
Speaker 1: women of today that my generation didn't have. It. Kind

817
00:41:04,281 --> 00:41:07,161
Speaker 1: of cats both ways. You know, the image that you

818
00:41:07,201 --> 00:41:09,761
Speaker 1: get of how life is supposed to be is not

819
00:41:09,841 --> 00:41:12,001
Speaker 1: something we had to deal with back in my day.

820
00:41:13,001 --> 00:41:15,601
Speaker 1: I mean, normal was what you lived and you didn't

821
00:41:15,601 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: really get to see how anyone else's life was true.

822
00:41:19,361 --> 00:41:21,881
Speaker 1: So for me, the marriage I was in was a

823
00:41:21,921 --> 00:41:24,201
Speaker 1: normal marriage as far as I was concerned, because I

824
00:41:24,201 --> 00:41:26,281
Speaker 1: didn't see the examples of better ones.

825
00:41:26,321 --> 00:41:28,441
Speaker 4: Yeah, you didn't know. That's so true? Actually was. We

826
00:41:28,441 --> 00:41:31,121
Speaker 4: compare so much on social media with like these highlight reels.

827
00:41:31,361 --> 00:41:34,601
Speaker 4: We think you have a standard. It does fast forward

828
00:41:34,641 --> 00:41:37,081
Speaker 4: to now though, Mom, Like, your life is obviously so

829
00:41:37,201 --> 00:41:39,841
Speaker 4: different and you're so happy, Like you were single for

830
00:41:39,921 --> 00:41:41,761
Speaker 4: quite a few years, and then you met your partner

831
00:41:41,841 --> 00:41:44,161
Speaker 4: Bruce now on it was it on dating our pay.

832
00:41:44,201 --> 00:41:48,761
Speaker 1: We've been together for twelve years, married for three or four.

833
00:41:48,921 --> 00:41:51,001
Speaker 4: Yeah, when I tell you I've never seen a man

834
00:41:51,041 --> 00:41:54,121
Speaker 4: worship the ground someone walks on, I'm not even kidding you.

835
00:41:54,241 --> 00:41:58,761
Speaker 4: Like this man thinks the bee's knees of my mumm

836
00:41:58,881 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 4: gonna be like having, you know, a moment where she's

837
00:42:01,001 --> 00:42:03,161
Speaker 4: I don't know. We you're emotional, snappy, and she's like,

838
00:42:03,761 --> 00:42:07,521
Speaker 4: he just still loves me. He just adores the shit

839
00:42:07,601 --> 00:42:08,001
Speaker 4: out of you.

840
00:42:08,161 --> 00:42:12,481
Speaker 3: And it's so isn't it so exactly what you deserve.

841
00:42:12,561 --> 00:42:14,761
Speaker 4: Sometimes I'm just like, oh my gosh, that man is

842
00:42:14,801 --> 00:42:16,921
Speaker 4: like obsessed with you, but in the most beautiful way.

843
00:42:17,001 --> 00:42:19,361
Speaker 4: And we giggle because it's just like, I've never seen

844
00:42:19,401 --> 00:42:21,841
Speaker 4: you be treated like an absolute queen, Like you could

845
00:42:21,881 --> 00:42:25,201
Speaker 4: literally wear anything, do anything, say anything, you could have

846
00:42:25,481 --> 00:42:27,281
Speaker 4: shit all over your face and he'd be like, Wendy,

847
00:42:27,321 --> 00:42:28,321
Speaker 4: you're so beautiful.

848
00:42:28,801 --> 00:42:35,961
Speaker 1: I know, my ugly dancing he thinks is amazing. He

849
00:42:36,161 --> 00:42:38,121
Speaker 1: really is the blast thing at the end of all

850
00:42:38,161 --> 00:42:38,681
Speaker 1: of this for.

851
00:42:38,681 --> 00:42:41,401
Speaker 4: Me, and I freaking love that because it just gives

852
00:42:41,521 --> 00:42:44,281
Speaker 4: anyone listening hopefully like we wanted to share this story

853
00:42:44,321 --> 00:42:46,321
Speaker 4: because one I've spoken about it so much openly over

854
00:42:46,401 --> 00:42:49,561
Speaker 4: the years, but too just to hopefully empower other women

855
00:42:49,601 --> 00:42:51,561
Speaker 4: that they you know, there is choices, and I know

856
00:42:51,641 --> 00:42:54,161
Speaker 4: it's not as easy as just like getting up and leaving.

857
00:42:54,401 --> 00:42:58,241
Speaker 4: I realize domestic and abusive relationship and toxic relationships are

858
00:42:58,241 --> 00:43:01,321
Speaker 4: not that black and white. There's so many layers to it.

859
00:43:01,401 --> 00:43:03,481
Speaker 4: But I just hope that this can give some light.

860
00:43:03,521 --> 00:43:08,081
Speaker 1: And remember it's too late to reinvent yourself. I did

861
00:43:08,081 --> 00:43:11,681
Speaker 1: it when I was forty five, like and I thought

862
00:43:11,681 --> 00:43:13,521
Speaker 1: at that time, like you know, that was part of

863
00:43:13,561 --> 00:43:15,961
Speaker 1: the grief for me, was like I'm so old, I

864
00:43:15,961 --> 00:43:19,681
Speaker 1: could never have another life. Now this has just ruined

865
00:43:19,681 --> 00:43:22,321
Speaker 1: my life. That was the mindset that I was in.

866
00:43:22,801 --> 00:43:25,921
Speaker 1: But it's never too late. You can always move on

867
00:43:26,001 --> 00:43:28,801
Speaker 1: to something better and build that for yourself.

868
00:43:29,081 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 4: And you've built an incredible life that you're loving so much.

869
00:43:31,521 --> 00:43:33,561
Speaker 4: You go to Bali every year with your amazing daughter.

870
00:43:35,321 --> 00:43:37,961
Speaker 4: You live on land, you have a veggie garden. You know,

871
00:43:38,001 --> 00:43:40,281
Speaker 4: you're working back for us. You've got a great relationship

872
00:43:40,321 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 4: with all of your children and your husband, and it's

873
00:43:42,521 --> 00:43:45,081
Speaker 4: just so cool to see you at this second half

874
00:43:45,121 --> 00:43:49,401
Speaker 4: of your life, just absolutely thriving, not just surviving through

875
00:43:49,441 --> 00:43:51,361
Speaker 4: each day. And it's so cool to see.

876
00:43:51,281 --> 00:43:53,321
Speaker 1: And it's so cool to get to share it with you.

877
00:43:54,041 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 4: I love you so much.

878
00:43:55,601 --> 00:43:56,321
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love you.

879
00:43:57,121 --> 00:43:59,361
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us. This has been incredible.

880
00:43:59,441 --> 00:44:01,601
Speaker 4: It's so vulnerable and brave to share and open up,

881
00:44:01,641 --> 00:44:03,241
Speaker 4: and I think so many women are going to get

882
00:44:03,241 --> 00:44:05,641
Speaker 4: a lot out of this episode. It's really share your time.

883
00:44:05,721 --> 00:44:08,001
Speaker 1: Mum, thank you to both of you.

884
00:44:08,241 --> 00:44:09,041
Speaker 4: You're so welcome.