WEBVTT - The best TV of 2025

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to seven AM. This week,

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<v Speaker 1>we're bringing you our annual Summer Special. Each day we'll

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<v Speaker 1>speak to a critic with impeccable taste about the best books,

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<v Speaker 1>TV shows, movies, music, podcasts, and games of twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Today we are kicking it off with writer Sarah Krasnastein

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<v Speaker 1>and the TV shows she loved this year. Sarah's had

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<v Speaker 1>a massive year, collaborating with Helen Gardner and Chloe Hooper

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<v Speaker 1>on a book about Aaron Patterson's triple murder trial, well

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time writing another book and on the side,

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<v Speaker 1>watching a hell of a lot of TV like the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of us today, author of The Mushroom Tapes, The Believer,

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<v Speaker 1>and The Trauma Cleaner, Sarah Krasnastein, I'm the best TV

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 2>I just take my word for it.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe this list is deadly It's Monday, December twenty two. Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for joining us. We're here to talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>best TV of the year, and you are here to

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<v Speaker 1>lay a few things out first. In terms of your picks,

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<v Speaker 1>tell us about your first one.

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<v Speaker 3>So I chose Adolescence, which was kind of the start

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<v Speaker 3>of the year, and it's something that I keep on

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<v Speaker 3>thinking about.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm going to start off with asking you, do you

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<v Speaker 4>know a girl called Katie Lennard?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, describe each other as friends? Then is she dot?

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<v Speaker 4>Then why would you ask her?

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<v Speaker 3>It's a show about what starts off as a seemingly inexplicable,

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<v Speaker 3>horrorfying murder. A thirteen year old boy named Jamie who's

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<v Speaker 3>played by the actor Owen Cooper, stabs his classmate Katie,

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<v Speaker 3>who's played by Amelia Holiday, stabs her to death. And

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<v Speaker 3>each of these four hour long episodes are filmed in

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<v Speaker 3>a single continuous shot, so that in a self is

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<v Speaker 3>noteworthy because it depends on unerring acting and scriptwriting and

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<v Speaker 3>cinematography and production design, but it also functions in the.

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<v Speaker 5>Story in a way where the medium is.

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<v Speaker 3>The message, and it gives us a long view of

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<v Speaker 3>causation and connection where we can see this young boy's

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<v Speaker 3>murderous violence not as inexplicable, but very much any long

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<v Speaker 3>train coming through a social media and social landscape that

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<v Speaker 3>had at every turn done nothing to prevent gender based violence.

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<v Speaker 1>The show is back to a really deep conversation, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's back to one thousands think pieces about the mena

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<v Speaker 1>sphere and online cell culture. How does it grapple with

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<v Speaker 1>those very sort of esoteric but very serious and deep things.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, for so many of us, these are

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<v Speaker 3>things that we kind of know, but then when called

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<v Speaker 3>to explain, we lack language.

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<v Speaker 5>And it's a very real generational divide.

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<v Speaker 4>Why do you have an Instagram account? Oh?

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<v Speaker 5>I need one?

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<v Speaker 4>Why to look over people's accounts?

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<v Speaker 5>You can't if I ever got one?

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<v Speaker 4>Right? And you follow lots of women on Instagram models? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>you don't need to put photos up though? Why do

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<v Speaker 4>you put photos up of yourself?

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I don't know, and I'm not loud.

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<v Speaker 3>So we understand this thirteen year old boy is going

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<v Speaker 3>through all the familiar awkwardness of that stage, not fitting

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<v Speaker 3>in at school, discontent at home, and receiving everywhere in

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<v Speaker 3>the society longstanding gendered messages about you know, what men

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<v Speaker 3>are and what women are, much of it kind of

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<v Speaker 3>reflected by his perfectly lovely.

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<v Speaker 5>And loving parents.

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<v Speaker 3>And then we see this tendency that he had to

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<v Speaker 3>spend long hours in the night online alone in his bedroom.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's where we start understanding that manisphere, which

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<v Speaker 3>is in the show, a version of Andrew Tate's commodified

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<v Speaker 3>hyper masculinity, misogyny, alt right disinformation and capitalism and kind

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<v Speaker 3>of this spratuitous oppositional defiance amy.

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<v Speaker 4>If you do not sit fucking don't don't tell me

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<v Speaker 4>why to say? Don't you why look at me?

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<v Speaker 3>Now we see how attractive that messaging of empowerment and

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<v Speaker 3>belonging and community would be to a disempowered, lonely teenage

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<v Speaker 3>boy in his bedroom.

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<v Speaker 5>And so we're seeing that.

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<v Speaker 3>The consequences are diabolical, but that there's so many kind

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<v Speaker 3>of stages before it reaches the end where somebody could

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<v Speaker 3>have stepped in to offer what he was getting online.

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<v Speaker 5>Can you look a bit read? Did she wrote this

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<v Speaker 5>or not? I mean, I'm only thirteen. I don't think

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<v Speaker 5>it look golf.

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<v Speaker 1>Scary, Sarah, what's second on your list?

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<v Speaker 3>So Pluribus, which kind of landed very recently. We're like

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<v Speaker 3>weeks before the end of the year, and I feel

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<v Speaker 3>in many ways this just came out of nowhere and

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<v Speaker 3>has blown a lot of excellent TV shows out of

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<v Speaker 3>the water and kind of off the list.

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<v Speaker 1>To my twelve fellow survivors, Greetings, I'm Carol, Stirka.

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<v Speaker 5>Some of you know me, some of you have yet

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<v Speaker 5>to meet. But if you're still one of us, then

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<v Speaker 5>this message is for you.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell me about the world Pluribus is setting. What's

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<v Speaker 1>it like?

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<v Speaker 5>So it's so strange and so compelling.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a suddenly glad apocalyptic thriller with a surprisingly unsympathetic lead.

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<v Speaker 5>We ourselves have no choice for us. It's a biological imperative,

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<v Speaker 5>like breathing.

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<v Speaker 6>But every time one comes to understand how wonderful.

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<v Speaker 7>It is, how fucking people died during your wonderful fucking

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<v Speaker 7>joining must of course so much.

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<v Speaker 3>When Earth's population is horrifyingly and almost instantaneously assimilated into this.

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<v Speaker 5>Benevolent hive mind.

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<v Speaker 3>Author her name is Carol Stirka, and she's played by

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<v Speaker 3>Ria Seahorn, who just gives an amazing phenomenal performance. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>she finds herself like seemingly the last woman's standing, and

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<v Speaker 3>her efforts to resist this like glad collective's efforts to

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<v Speaker 3>join them form the basis of the story, and she

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<v Speaker 3>kind of considers herself and in certain ways is very

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<v Speaker 3>much the last bastion of humanity. If we understand that

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<v Speaker 3>as individualized experience.

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<v Speaker 5>There is something else to consider.

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<v Speaker 3>We know what it feels like to be you, to

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<v Speaker 3>be alone, to suffer.

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<v Speaker 5>We've been you, but you've never been us.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's the latest work from heavyweight creative director Vince Gilligan,

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<v Speaker 1>who was most well known for Breaking Bad and Better

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<v Speaker 1>Call Saw, which I personally believe is better than Breaking

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<v Speaker 1>Bad myself. It's just a side point. So does Pluribus

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<v Speaker 1>leave up to that massive legacy.

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<v Speaker 5>I believe it does. It's similar.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it takes place in that same New Mexico landscape,

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<v Speaker 3>and it kind of has all these Gilligan hallmarks, but

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<v Speaker 3>at the same time, it's its own thing. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I love Breaking Bad so much, I love Better Call Saul,

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<v Speaker 3>and Pluribus does kind of earn its place in that

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<v Speaker 3>Gilligan pantheon. We know that he likes these unlikely heroes,

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<v Speaker 3>unlikely villains, unexpected narrative arcs, and he's really a master

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<v Speaker 3>of storytelling.

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<v Speaker 5>And that's what we're seeing with Pluribus.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up. Two fantastic new comedies. All right, Sarah, what's

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<v Speaker 1>your third pick for twenty twenty five?

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<v Speaker 5>So this was Sterlin Harjo's The Lowdown on Disney.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Lee Raybon, Lee Raybon, he'll write for any

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<v Speaker 2>publications that will humor has conspiracies.

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<v Speaker 4>Can you read my paper?

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<v Speaker 1>It's booty and bad guys.

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<v Speaker 2>He's rough around the hedges Sterlin.

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<v Speaker 1>He made Reservation Dogs, which he picked for a previous

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<v Speaker 1>best of a few years ago. Don't real you remember that? Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>So what's it all about.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a neo noir.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's got all of these tropes of noir, so

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<v Speaker 3>the cynical anti hero and the fem fatale and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the almost mind boggling complex plot, this overhanging sense of dread.

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<v Speaker 5>But in a nutshell.

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<v Speaker 3>Ethan Hawke plays a guy called Lee Raybon who describes

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<v Speaker 3>himself as a truth Storian.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, you're a journalist too, right, or some kind of writer.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a true Storian.

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<v Speaker 5>Sorry, sag.

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<v Speaker 4>I am a Tulsa true Storian, a truth story.

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<v Speaker 2>What exactly is I'm glad to ask?

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<v Speaker 1>I reads.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically, he's part like citizen public interest journalist and part

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<v Speaker 3>muckraker and all the time this very chaotic dirt bag.

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<v Speaker 3>But he has these very noble elevated aims of trying

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<v Speaker 3>to uncover dirty politics in the state. So when the

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<v Speaker 3>brother of a local politician from a wealthy family commits suicide.

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<v Speaker 3>Raybond finds a letter that the brother wrote before he died,

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<v Speaker 3>and he goes in search of kind of the real

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<v Speaker 3>story there because things aren't as simple as they seem.

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<v Speaker 5>So that's the that's the basic premise.

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<v Speaker 1>So stars Athan Hawk. He stars alongside Keith David, who

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<v Speaker 1>was very well known for his comedy Chops. Not so

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<v Speaker 1>much with Aithan Hawk. Can he pull off comedy?

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<v Speaker 5>I believe so.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I wasn't expecting it. I don't think any

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<v Speaker 3>one was really like, no offense Ethan Hawk. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think anyone was really expecting Ethan Hawk to be a

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<v Speaker 3>male comedic lead here. He did have a cameo in

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<v Speaker 3>res Dog, so obviously, like that's not out of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 3>But he just fully inhabits this role. It is an excellent, compelling,

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<v Speaker 3>mesmerizing performance. And you know, for Coen Brothers fans, it's

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<v Speaker 3>undeniably Lebowski esque.

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<v Speaker 5>But at the end of the day, he is himself only.

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<v Speaker 3>And what he's done with this character I think is

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<v Speaker 3>just brilliant.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh get me to a hospital. I'll come on.

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<v Speaker 5>You said you didn't have time. Jesus, this is the

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<v Speaker 5>farm animals. Animals take medicine too.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, what do you have first? Mixed?

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<v Speaker 3>So this is the rehearsal season two, and I don't

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<v Speaker 3>quite know how to uh where it would fit genre wise,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's different to the previous picks tonally, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 8>I do have some experience with creating elaborate role playing scenarios,

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<v Speaker 8>and I do have money to put towards this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think you aren't a something there.

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<v Speaker 7>Let's work together to save some lives, yes, Sayson.

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<v Speaker 1>One of three heres still introduced us to the field

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<v Speaker 1>of method which underpins the whole show. Can you have

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<v Speaker 1>a swing at describing what that needs? First look?

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<v Speaker 5>I'll try so.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically Fielder, who I think it's fair to describe as

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<v Speaker 3>a comedian, he replicates an exacting, extravagant detail real life settings.

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<v Speaker 5>This is in season one but also season two.

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<v Speaker 3>To help people rehearse or like practice for challenging upcoming

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<v Speaker 3>events and conversations. But from there it kind of spirals

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<v Speaker 3>ever outward and becomes more and more meta.

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<v Speaker 5>And absurd as it goes.

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<v Speaker 3>But at its heart, both season one and season two

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<v Speaker 3>are about the glories and tragedy of communication and performances

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<v Speaker 3>that we all do at some point.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen, Fielder, where does your sense of alcruism come from?

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<v Speaker 5>Where all of a sudden you want to save lives?

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<v Speaker 1>You're known for pranking. What makes it particularly special different

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<v Speaker 1>from the first season.

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<v Speaker 3>In the first season, he was helping people kind of

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<v Speaker 3>deal with these issues, and also it sparkles off into

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<v Speaker 3>how to raise a child, which again is non sequitur

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<v Speaker 3>in the spirit of the series. In season two, he

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<v Speaker 3>becomes a fully fledged transport pilot. But that's part of

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<v Speaker 3>using this Fielder method at the service of improving aviation safety.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean even to say it is difficult to keep

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<v Speaker 3>us straight face, But basically he's using this Fielder method

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<v Speaker 3>in an attempt to improve communication dynamics in the cockpit,

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<v Speaker 3>where the hierarchy between the pilot and the co pilot

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<v Speaker 3>that the junior pilot has often resulted in this lethal

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<v Speaker 3>obedience where the junior feels they can challenge the more

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<v Speaker 3>senior pilot, and that's responsible for so many aviation crashes.

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<v Speaker 3>So he applies this rehearsal, performance based approach to trying

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<v Speaker 3>to remedy those rates of crashes.

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<v Speaker 7>I had a theory that the start of a romantic

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<v Speaker 7>relationship is a great parallel for two pilots meeting before

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<v Speaker 7>a flight.

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<v Speaker 4>What's the longest you could go without coffee?

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<v Speaker 7>I mean, I could probably just go without it for

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<v Speaker 7>a day. But it definitely helps you become intimately involved

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<v Speaker 7>with a stranger where both people are desperately trying to

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<v Speaker 7>read each other. But the pressure to show the best

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<v Speaker 7>version of yourself can prevent you from sharing what you

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<v Speaker 7>actually feel.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I think again to even describe this as to

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<v Speaker 3>dare people who've never heard of it to be interested

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.520
<v Speaker 3>enough to actually watch it? But I think the result

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 3>is well, firstly, it's extremely awkward, but it's genuinely hilarious

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 3>and absurd. And I found the most surprising thing about

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<v Speaker 3>this is that it is unexpectedly moving in the way

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<v Speaker 3>that it interrogates kind of these possibilities and the limitations

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<v Speaker 3>of practicing the selves that we would like to be.

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.920
<v Speaker 1>He uses a hall of mirrors really to reflect ourselves

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.079
<v Speaker 1>back at each other in all sorts of weird ways.

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<v Speaker 5>Absolutely coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>Our post apocalypse stories are hopeful. And before we finish up, Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>You've got one war for us an Argentinian sci fi

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<v Speaker 1>tell me about.

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<v Speaker 3>The annot so It's filmed in the neighborhoods of present

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 3>day Buenos Aires, and it opens with a strange summer

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 3>snow that kills everyone it happens to touch.

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<v Speaker 1>This is so are you you know?

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<v Speaker 2>Come on, yep, I wake up a Magnetico La.

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<v Speaker 3>It's got these beautiful images of the silent, frosted city

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<v Speaker 3>where daily life is just abbreviated.

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<v Speaker 5>And it was noteworthy.

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<v Speaker 3>Because it's based on the science fiction comic strip from

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 3>the late fifties by man god Hector Jerman oster Eld.

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 3>If you look at that, it has these themes that

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<v Speaker 3>called directly forward to the rise of fascism broadly and

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 3>almost directly our current moment, but also what happened in

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<v Speaker 3>Argentina later when Ouster held himself.

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<v Speaker 5>Was murdered in their Dirney Wars in the seventies.

0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Compared to the other science fiction on your list, this

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 1>definitely is a bleaker side of the story. So what's

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<v Speaker 1>compelling about this world and why would we want to

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<v Speaker 1>spend time in another blake world?

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<v Speaker 6>Sarah I will always argue that post apocalyptic genre is

0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:03.520
<v Speaker 6>inherently hopeful, optimistic, because it's less about what's been destroyed

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.000
<v Speaker 6>and it's about the possibilities of what can be created,

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<v Speaker 6>and kind.

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<v Speaker 3>Of what the next draft of all this could look

0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 3>like with our uses and misuses of AI, these eternal

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 3>questions are very much relevant at the moment, but the

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<v Speaker 3>nature of streaming generally in twenty twenty five specifically has

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.680
<v Speaker 3>been like, we are spoiled for choice, So you know,

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 3>you don't have to listen to me.

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<v Speaker 5>There's so many other things out there as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah, thanks so much for the listener, Thanks so much

0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 1>for you Tom, thanks for having me